Killzone 2 has no CGI-Animation, everything is real time

Aaron Greenterd - 349 days 16 hours ago

My company better just pack it in and head home....

To our virtual apartments of course! The 360 may not succeed but we will sure try to make money off of Sony with our own Microsoft Videogame Archive space in Sony Home.

We will be selling virtual 360's so users can decorate their gaming spaces with outdated tech. These come with no warranty and no refunds, of course.

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xwabbit - 349 days 15 hours ago

ROFL Aaron

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FantasyStar - 349 days 15 hours ago

Sure it's real-time, but pre-rendered cut-scenes is just as bad as CGI because it allows the fanboys to nitpick certain aspects and that sparks turns into something messy: like this.

"OMG! Intro Video is pre-rendered. PS3 CAN'T HANDLE IT! 360 FTW!"

I don't believe for one second that the intro-video shown as CES '09 was rendering all of that in real-time on the PS3. I do believe that the video is using the KZ2 engine though on a supercomputer due to limitations of the PS3 itself to render all those things at once.

Meh, what high-profile game hasn't pulled that trick yet? MGS4, Gears 1, Gears 2 for starters have used the in-game's engine to pre-render intense cut-scenes that would be impossible for the PS3 to render in real-time at an acceptable rate.

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FantasyStar - 349 days 14 hours ago

People should realize that even movies use supercomputers to achieve high visual fidelity all the time. Whether it's sound effects, modeling, down to high-class graphical simulators that developers pay by the hour to use.

I don't blame Guerrilla for choosing to go this route one bit. In fact, by doing this: they can significantly shorten their development time and get the game out sooner to make some money because instead of trying fiddle with resources to pick out the right ones that can be time consuming; Guerrilla simply takes all the code and feeds it in and the supercomputer spits out pure gold.

The only time I have a problem with this method is when the developers themselves try to mask the word "pre-rendered" under the word "rendered real-time" because that's purposely misleading people and that's awful. It gets the fanboys riled up and we end up in a PS3 recession because someone decided to try and play "PR man" -twisting words to make some sound better than others. FUD is created, and flame wars are inevitable when you see that one thread "KZ2 cutscene pre-rendered = PS3 FAIL".

If the developer just came out and said "hey, we used our in-house PS3s to pre-render this cutscene" -I'd be like "wow, cool!". But the fact that they're purposely misleading people is what irritates me. Who here actually likes being lied to?

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Ju - 349 days 14 hours ago

MGS4 had pre-rendered CGI ? Do I have Alzheimer or ... I just can remember...

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callahan09 - 349 days 14 hours ago

@Fantasy Star (and anybody that read his ridiculous post):

That post up there has got to be filled with more "wrong" than anything I've ever read on this site. Are you joking or what? I can't tell. MGS4 had absolutely no pre-rendered cutscenes, it was all rendered in real-time. 100% of them.

What about the above quote don't you understand? NO pre-rendered cutscenes, everything is real-time. The PS3 can handle it. Period.

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FantasyStar - 349 days 14 hours ago

MGS4 didn't have pre-rendered CGI. It's simply pre-rendered. It's basically using your in-game engine in an outside environment like a supercomputer/SDKs to render the rest of your work: then that footage is recorded and used as a cut-scene so that the PS3 isn't doing the work, but just streaming the footage. Although just to clear things up. MGS4 used 1-2 pre-rendered cutscenes out of the entire pack: so I'd still consider it acceptable. The same goes with Gears 1/2: 1-2 out of the 20 real-time rendered cutscenes is still acceptable.

@callahan

Perhaps I might've read it wrong, but we will see when KZ2 drops in February. I learned not to trust developers as much anymore. For example, if Beyond3D forum members didn't expose Haze as being rendered at sub-HD resolutions of 1024x576, would the PR really have told us in the first place? The fact of the matter is that if developers have something to hide. They'll do what they can to cover the truth until they get called out. When they have no where to run: that's when they'll admit it they were misleading people.

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Skerj - 349 days 14 hours ago

Yup MGS4 used prerendered cutscenes, it wasn't like I could you know INTERACT with them as if they were realtime. Oh I could you say? I could shake the controller and clear Snake's Octocam and sometimes alter the view? Why. ..that's just something you'd be able to do in a realtime cutscene, not some prerecordered video playing back. *Gasp* This revelation blows my mind!!

On a less sarcasm filled note, GG has met and exceeded expectations for this game. They delivered and that's all that matters. You can all sit on the sidelines and b*tch and whine about minute details even though you've enjoyed "lesser" games in the past (graphically speaking), or you can let go and play the damn game and have fun.

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staub91 - 349 days 13 hours ago

Everyone was criticizing GG for their 2005 trailer, because it was CGI and had no real-time.

3 and half years later...

GG has all real time and no CGI, plus it looks and runs better than the original CGI.

Guerrilla Games has outdone themselves, they stepped up to the challenge and delivered big time. They amaze me.

Congrats GG!

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gambare - 349 days 13 hours ago

Do you have the slight idea of what PRE RENDER means? no? ok I'll leave you a simple wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Sony has been doing pre renders since the PSX era, one of the most famous pre render movies was in the game FFVII, but the in game movies in KZ2 are not PRE RENDER, those are RTR or real time render

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

sorry to burst your bubble but the PS3 is an awesome RTR machine and guerrilla knows it and proves it

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thewhoopimen - 349 days 12 hours ago

Skerj made an excellent point FantasyStar, how do you explain that every Snake CGI screen is interactive where you can actually shake the controller and change Snake's camo at ANY given point? Is it still rendered with the a farm of servers?

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IdleLeeSiuLung - 349 days 11 hours ago

Now this would be awesome! However, the source of the article points to a forum and not even the actual post they are reffering to. I don't feel like wading through 68 pages of messages to confirm. Until I see real proof, I call shenanigans.

It would be awesome if true, because this would set the standard for the next PS3 games!!! Bout time they unlock the promised power of my PS3!

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badz149 - 349 days 10 hours ago

dude...wtf are you babbling about? are you even understand the meaning of pre-rendered? meh...what ever make you sleep better at night. once KZ2 released, please make sure that you don't forget to swallow your own words!

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blindfromthesun - 349 days 11 hours ago

Killzone 2 doesn't need CGI. Aside from being resource intensive, it is plain to see the engine has almost reached parity. In other words: Killzone 2 looks too good to use resource hogging CGI because it already looks just as good.

Just got Killzone 1 in the mail today :-)

PS: Morgan...I know we have our differences, however its good that we'll both be able to play Killzone 2. Cheers.

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Fishy Fingers - 349 days 16 hours ago

Me to, especially in this generation when in-game graphics are good enough. But SE do make some fantastic CGI. Shame they wont show any of it...

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hay - 349 days 15 hours ago

Agreed. Square renders are incredible but I think with today's tech and visuals CGI's are becoming obsolete.
I did love transitions in ff7 and 8 between ingame and CGI. But MGS4 did it(without CGI) in jawdropping manner.

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Jager - 349 days 14 hours ago

FFX... the transitions from real time to CGI where so flawless... and the CGI scenes were beautiful...

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Oner - 349 days 14 hours ago

You know I actually agree with you Jenzo. It's not that using CGI is somehow bad or anything, but if used properly it can help make the experience just. that. little. bit. more. "epic"....(sometimes )

Though it is absolutely amazing that titles like MGS4, Uncharted & Killzone 2 (to name a few) have or are showing what can be done when dever's take their jobs seriously (just like Epic did with Gears 2 to an extent over Halo being a first party) and want to make something gamers - REAL gamers (not casuals) can appreciate and enjoy.

Innovation only grows the industry. MS, Sony & Ninty all benefit from that and it trickles down to us, which is the way it should be. They are the ones who are SUPPOSED to cater to us. As WE are their audience, NOT their investors & stock holders. So while it is absolutely understood that it all comes down to business (ultimately), certain priorities need to have EQUAL share or more attention than others in some cases.

That is what I and millions of others demand; and if not then we as a whole can dictate with our choice in who to support or not.

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gambare - 349 days 13 hours ago

Prerender CGI movies are so last gen....

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eagle21 - 349 days 15 hours ago

You read my mind.

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Doctor Strange - 349 days 14 hours ago

Agreed about all of the hardwork GG has put into this. They deserve a mountain of credit and I hope come February everybody buys the game, forget this console war just support the developers that seems to have made an awesome game for gamers everywhere.

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d3l33t - 349 days 13 hours ago

I love the denial associated with this game. This entire article is filled with comments from 'gamers' who don't even understand the fundamental basis of Real Time Ray tracing and CGI. The video presented up to this date are not 'prerecorded' - that means that every polygon is drawn real time. What's so hard to understand about that? Yes it's an amazing feat, but that's why i invested in better technology. This game marks a true benchmark for programmers everywhere and the fact that they are setting the bar this high is a great thing. In the future we will see even more exciting processes used.

Simply amazing, i've waited a long time for this!

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princejb134 - 349 days 16 hours ago

i really hope it does deliver my friend
wanna play it badly cause of all the hype
hope it doesnt fail like socom with all the hype it was given
day 1 purchase killzone 2

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callahan09 - 349 days 14 hours ago

You're just like Fantasy Star up above in a response to the first comment. NO PRE-RENDERED CUTSCENES, what about that can't you comprehend? Why would you even say that the intro and ending are CGI? It's completely unfounded.

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thewhoopimen - 349 days 12 hours ago

The only way GG will be able to demonstrate it is real time is if they pull what Konami did with MGS4. Have some useless interactive feature to show the skeptics it ain't smoke and mirrors.

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M337ING - 349 days 15 hours ago

That cutscene is CGI... I'm sure they're not counting it. It uses different assets from the game, as is obvious by some increased detail. Plus, it would be impossible to load all of those different environments in that quickly and render them that smoothly for an uninterrupted cutscene. The guy's face at the end also has exponentially more detail than any face I've seen from in-game footage.

That's probably the only CGI-rendered video on the disk, anyway.

The link doesn't even talk about CGI in-game, they're talking about the possibility of a CGI-based Killzone movie.

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Ju - 349 days 15 hours ago

Non-gameplay cut scenes using the game engine usually can increase the detail level of the rendering. They can disable AI/Physics and do simple script based animation, freeing up these resources to increase the quality of the renderer using in game assets. Loading can be avoided using streaming. It also allows you to seamlessly transition from a cut scene to in game.

Not sure if this is the case, but just because it looks better doesn't mean its CGI (except you would consider "in game computer generated images" CGI).

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M337ING - 349 days 15 hours ago

The fact remains, Ju, the kind of detail they had in the face of the Helghast leader at the end is unattainable on current games and so far beyond that of what I've seen in PS3 software so far that I doubt that scene was being rendered in real-time, regardless of the disabling of animations and physics.

The scene might be using some in-game assets, but its obvious that its pre-recorded footage.

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Ju - 349 days 14 hours ago

That face had nothing but...the face. A black background and no additional objects. You can put all the polypower in that one scene to just render that face. Again, not sure if it is, but also does not mean it's not.

BTW: The same goes for the "space scene". Three warships, 2 planets, empty space. Star backdrop (and possibly flat texture).

The opening doesn't really contain much. 4-5 launch pads, in the distance, though. Flat environment, but high level of detail up close. And that's about it.

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callahan09 - 349 days 14 hours ago

It does NOT use different assets. It's just that the cutscenes are more detailed than the gameplay because they don't have to calculate player inputs and lighting/physics/AI responses to player inputs, leaving everything on board open to just render the pre-defined animation. Of course a pre-defined animation with no player input can contain more detail than interactive scenes.

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joevfx - 349 days 11 hours ago

i just called my friend that is in the game biz and has made games for the PS3 before. he says everythign you see in the non gameplay scenes are indeed being rendered on the fly. it might look slightly better cause the devs have control over the camera and what is being scene and rendered at any givin time. My buddy has been in teh industry for some tiem now and he even says he is extremely impressed what GG got done.

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Ju - 349 days 11 hours ago

Just to add that M337ING was right, the opening is a CGI. See a ref somewhere below (Seb answered this in the psboard somewhere), rest is ingame, though.

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Fishy Fingers - 349 days 15 hours ago

Yep, I just spent 10 minutes looking through 20+ pages of the thread and saw nothing other than what you said. Hmmmm...

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bviperz - 349 days 14 hours ago

It was a nervous laugh, filled with uncertainty. Kind of like laughing at someone and at the same time hoping that someone doesn't kick your arse. I think you missed it.

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ultimolu - 349 days 12 hours ago

Lol. xP

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Ju - 349 days 11 hours ago

Good find. Even though I wanted to believe its in game, I am OK with that, though. Why not.

Is that actually a scene from the game ? I mean, does it play before the games starts or is that just a commercial ? (Somehow that look to me like that) But to answer that you'd probably need the full game, hah ?

Edit: Ah, Seb said its just a (small?) portion of the whole intro.

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sit down droid - 349 days 16 hours ago

hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm.....yes ok / sarcasm

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GiantEnemyLobster - 349 days 14 hours ago

After the flop of a game that was MGS4 with its 10 hour long cutscenes, they finally became smart. Leave the cutscenes to a REAL company, like MS or Nintendo.

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liquidsnake - 349 days 13 hours ago

Yeah, a REAL sh1t company that is MS.

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apena89 - 349 days 5 hours ago

Crabs, you haven't played a PS3. If you did, it was probably on a 4 inch TV the size of your wang. Try not to say anything stupid again please. MGS4 is better than Gears 2 and everybody knows that.

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Ilikegames76 - 349 days 4 hours ago

You sound like a ten year old trying to be an adolescent. Quit talking nonsense.

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sit down droid - 349 days 16 hours ago

pretty sad comment but i lold

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Torch - 349 days 12 hours ago

You are correct, although having Killzone ported to the 360 would still prove beneficial to it's fanbase by serving as the most outstanding-slideshow screensaver utility ever to be on the console. ;)

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morganfell - 349 days 16 hours ago

You had 50 million already for GTAIV DLC. We're waiting to see it equal Killzone 2.

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Ilikegames76 - 349 days 4 hours ago

You sound just like his older brother trying to be a grown up.

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PPnoPP - 349 days 15 hours ago

That's because neither of those games took 5 or 6yrs to make.

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Ichiryoka - 349 days 14 hours ago

too human

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sit down droid - 349 days 12 hours ago

you really think halo 3 had a budget of 100,000,000. are you mistaken

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