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350°
Is the gaming media really biased?
117
PSWii60 writes:
"Is the gaming media really biased? Welcome to the Killzone 2 Press Preview. Here, I will outline what we can expect from various web and magazine outlets and their subsequent review scores before and after Killzone 2 is released.
For ps3 owners like myself, we have gotten used to ps3 exclusive games coming under extreme scrutiny from the media. The equation usually goes like this:"
Read Full Article >>
pswi60.wordpress.com
meepmoopmeep
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Published: 352 days 9 hours ago | Article |
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meepmoopmeep
- 352 days 11 hours ago
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1 -
what surprises me is that people are surprised.
lol, this was inevitable, we all knew this
just get the game and enjoy it.
your own opinion is the only thing that matters.
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Aaron Greenturd
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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1.1 -
This article is completely unacceptable. Nobody should be able to sum up my company's pull on the media in 1 single article. I will pay any mod or admin to take this article down ASAP, or you can expect a lawsuit from the most powerful company in the World of America. Just email me at greenturd@microsoft.com and I will cut you a check.
My company has gone to extensive lengths to smear Sony, the PlayStation, and it's first party games. Obviously we have a mole inside our company, who has leaked info to this rogue blogger. I will track down the person responsible for this leak and ban his Xbox Live account for 1 year (and still deduct from his checking account, of course...)
As far as Killzone 2, it will never be able to destroy as many consoles as Halo 3 did back in 07....now that is a GAME!!!
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Shane Kim
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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1.2 -
Very good post Aron, Shane Kim feels exactley the same way.
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lord_of_balrogs
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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1.3 -
Lies. Lies. Lies.
As a regular IGN visitor you got it wrong.
IGN AU said Resistance 2 was better than Gears 2.
IGN USA said Resistance 2 was equal to Gears 2.
IGN UK said Gears 2 was better than Resistance 2.
Proof:
Resistance 2: PS3
Scores: 9.3 [AU], 9.5 [US], 8.3 [UK]
Gears of War 2: Xbox 360
Scores: 8.9 [AU], 9.5 [US], 9.2 [UK]
http://au.games.ign.com/art...
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meepmoopmeep
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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1.4 -
lmao, Aaron
anyway, Killzone 2 will be the most scrutinized game in all of gaming history.
in a sense, Sony and GG are to blame because of the 05 trailer.
but once they reached the near visual quality, it's off to find something else to nag about.
EDIT:
for the record, i didn't write this article.
i was PM'ed and asked to submit it as a favor.
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40cal
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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1.5 - Aaron Greenturd
LOLLOLOLOLOLOL "The World of America" that is some of the funniest $h!t I have read in along time. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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1.6
LightningPS3PS3
| 352 days 8 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble -
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lord_of_balrogs
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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1.7 - @ Lightning
You're not serious are you? MP aside, the SP campaign was a vast improvement over the original Gears. New enemies, more variety and an actual story for one.
The original felt like one endless grindfest to another grindfest. Half the the time I didn't even know the reason I was going some place because you were given objectives over the tac-com and there were literally only like 2 minutes worth of story cutscenes.
The first act of Gears 2 is better than all five acts of Gears 1 combined. Shooting, vehicle, and story cutscenes were all well placed and I actually knew the reason why I was completing an objective instead of just recieving orders like the 1st one and moving to complete it.
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MasFlowKiller
- 352 days 7 hours ago
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1.8 - Want to hear Something Funny
Want to hear Something Funny i tried to post this article on gametrailer and it got close in less then a minute,
no, no i did not use a dumb tittle i wrote, great killzone 2, media analysis as the tiitle, i hope they didnt think this article was about them
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Lifendz
- 352 days 7 hours ago
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1.9 - Of course they are...
I don't know why but they are. The gaming media types are the most vindictive nerds out there and they seem to have an axe to grind for Sony after releasing PS3 at such a high price. That coupled with the fact that Xbox live was so much better than PS3 in early 07 and up until they revised the store that they don't even acknowledge the fact that PSN is really really good now and...it's still free!
Yeah, they're biased. But hey, with so many games on PS3 now, and with the best of 360 behind it (doesn't mean more good games won't come...but we've seen it's best in Gears 2), the PS3 is primed to take over.
Just needs a price drop to 299.99 and maybe the media can go back to being unbiased.
Now off I go to silogon's site (insert joke here)
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1.10
Agent VX
| 352 days 7 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble -
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pswi60
- 352 days 7 hours ago
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1.11 - Agent VX
just remember, sony "deserves" it
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harv052
- 352 days 6 hours ago
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1.12 -
"The sad reality is that there is a large amount of people, that truly want the PlayStation brand out of the console business"
Then what? Buy shoddy consoles from the competition??
What............ever......... .
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blindfromthesun
- 351 days 23 hours ago
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1.13 -
A good article, speculative, but flawed. Why does everyone assume there is an extreme level of media bias against the PS3? You can give examples all day however that is biased in itself. That is not to say it doesn't exist, however its not pandemic. A better article might get into WHO individually is a fanboy on sites such as ign, 1up, gamespot, etc, etc. It is a goal in journalism to be objective. Reviews also "try" to adhere to this principle. Notice how reviews never have a "fun factor" (gamepro excluded) as a component of the score? If they did they would be too subjective and alienate everyone who might not think certain aspects of the game are as fun. If your a huge fan of any one series its not a good idea to review particular games you might attach bias to. With that said, being a hater should prevent you from reviewing games for the same reason. My favorite game of the year has been Metal Gear Solid 4. I am new to the series but quickly played the first three in order to catch up with the story. If I wrote a review it would be hard for me to review it objectively based on my bias of the game being "more than fun." Then again I'm not a professional journalist.
With that said, I don't think Killzone 2 being exclusive to PS3 will effect its review scores. The quality of the game will speak for itself. It is jumping the gun to say the Eurogamer and Edge will give it 80ish scores. They have been consistent for sure however I feel like this game is different. Ultimately, 1 or 2 reviews should never be your reason for getting a game or not. People need consider the aggregate number of reviews. Metacritic was created for a reason. Any game that doesn't have a disproportionate (negative) bell curve is good in my book. I think people are getting way too worked up about small things. Enjoy the game or not, but don't frown everytime someone doesn't agree with your opinion. Reviews should never be taken to heart.
Edit: I purchased Killzone 1 from eBay to catch up on the story. Good decision? I'm very hyped to say the least.
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prowiew
- 351 days 20 hours ago
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1.14 -
I dont think all gaming media is bias. How come every gaming and non gaming website is bias? It is something that I simply dont understand and beleive.
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Mozilla89
- 351 days 13 hours ago
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1.15 - Its impossible to not be biased a little bit.
You lean towards PS3 or 360 at least a little bid. I have a feeling this game is gonna get blasted by quite a few reviewers for being really scripted even though COD does it all the time. I didn't think the gamesradar preview was bad though.
Except the part about said the levels are linear but they still got lost lol.
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ToastMan018
- 352 days 11 hours ago
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2 -
great article...took the words right out of my mouth...funny thing is all this stuff is so obvious but yet theres still a bunch of people that swear there is no bias in the media...honestly i have no idea why theres so much hate for the playstation brand...it has brought us some of the best frachises in gaming history and really made gaming this pop culture phenomenon...we got done with last generation...the PS2...and good lord you would think people would be excited and happy for whats to come with PS3 but yet you hear people constantly bash Sony and the playstation brand like if playstation f*cked their mother or something...always whining about "sony promised this" and "sony promised that" seriously are you little children and is sony your mother? its really pathetic...i said it once and i'll say it again...the playstation brand has to do well for the game industry to well
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- The Corrupt -
- 352 days 11 hours ago
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2.1 -
OMFG! POWDERED TOAST MAN! NOWAI!
*ahem*
Yeah, the article is pretty spot on. People are pissy about the high console costs and many of the huge fanbase of the PS2 have moved over to the 360 - either out of impatience for a next gen console, or for the cheaper alternative - and they're basically venting their frustrations on Sony's less-than-stellar run this generation...
The only thing I don't agree with is that last bit - the market was fine before the Playstation arrived. It will be fine long after the Playstation dies.
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meepmoopmeep
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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2.2 -
this milkshake brought Corrupt to the yard?
lol
yeah, i agree, the industry will be fine.
sony is fine.
they've taken this crap for a 3rd generation now.
it's always been cool to hate Sony.
and it's the same haters with foot-in-mouth disease that continue this crap
because Sony made them feel stupid
by succeeding the last 2 gens
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AclayPS3
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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2.3 -
"The only thing I don't agree with is that last bit - the market was fine before the Playstation arrived. It will be fine long after the Playstation dies."
The Playstation brand will NEVER die and I agree with Toastman 100%. Bubbles up.
When Sony came out with the PS1, they really defined gaming and took it to the next level and made it cool for an adult to be a gamer because back then, Video games were still considered something like a childs toy.
I can't even imagine how the gaming market would be now if there was no Playstation brand... I mean, No God of War, No Shadow of the Colossus, No ICO, No Crash Bandicoot, No Spyro the Dragon, No Twisted Metal, No Gran Turismo etc.... and in my opinion, without the Playstation brand, their wouldn't be as much innovation in the gaming industry.
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rucky
- 352 days 7 hours ago
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2.4 -
"The only thing I don't agree with is that last bit - the market was fine before the Playstation arrived. It will be fine long after the Playstation dies."
Just to add to Aclay's comment. If you studied your gaming history you would know how Sony changed the whole game industry. Let me give you one quick course.
Playstation was the first CD-based console to defeat both Nintendo and Sega which was almost impossible back in the days. They basically made disc based consoles the standard that you see today.
Sony released the Playstation 2 and almost singlehandedly popularize DVDs(sounds familiar?) If it weren't for Sony you would still be playing CDs on your precious 360.
The point is, all Sony is trying to do is to keep moving forward. They have some flaws too but do not discount what Sony did and what they're trying to provide to us gamers.
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The Lazy One
- 351 days 13 hours ago
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2.5 - @rucky
Nintendo has done a lot more for moving gaming forward than the playstation brand.
Sony was the guy in the back of the group of pioneer settlers heading west on their way to cali who ran out in front and said "hey guys...follow me to california." Nintendo were they guys who looked around and found the gold in the mountains.
The industry was already heading towards larger storage mediums regardless of what Sony did. The original playstation was created because nintendo wanted a system with a larger storage solution. Nintendo, on the other hand, introduced the D-Pad, analogue sticks, triggers, motion tracking, touch screens, etc. to the home console market.
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Boty
- 351 days 9 hours ago
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2.6 - @ ToastMan I agree with toast man with every thing you said. by the way...
Sorry I haven't been on PSN lately. Been working.
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eelnats2000
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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3 - SAD, but TRUE. STOP THE HATE!
Theres been so much PS3 hate that people forget that we are all gamers. PS3 fanboys were envious of Gears, and now its the other way around for Killzone 2. But WE ARE ALL GAMERS.
We shouldnt treat the ps3 with this much bias.
The wii has made more crap in one year than the PS3's total lifetime (NO OFFENSE TO THE WII..its true though).
STOP ALL THE PS3, X360, WII HATE!!
The PS3, Xbox 360, and also the wii (i guess) have good games.
And if an excellent game is exclusive on one system instead of another, it shouldnt be the reason to be hated.
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mint royale
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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3.1 - Exactly and bubbles to you!
Why all the hate. Constructive critisim yes - a few articles on the ps3's struggling sales would do not the millions of overreacting articles. All the hate for any of the consoles is completely undeserved. Gamers should be happy there are 3 good companies in the industry increasing competition and keeping prices down. I don't buy into the MS bribed them claims there is absolutely no evidence but recently sony has been getting an unjust ride from the media. Stop!
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interrergator
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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3.2 -
agreed
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HDgamer
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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3.3 -
Fanboys never play games and can't stop the hate. They are poor enough as it is.
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ChanDangle
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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3.4 -
Up with Hope! Down with Dope!!
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rockleex
- 352 days 1 hour ago
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3.5 - Wow Mint Royale...
This is the first unbiased non-bashing post I've ever seen from you. ^_^
There's no need to hate on any console anyways. If you can't have certain features/services/games on your system, then just go buy the other systems that have it.
If you don't have the money, then go play it at your friends' houses.
But then again, bitter people such as fanboys probably don't have that many friends in real life... -_-"
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Skyreno
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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4 -
Nice! Article preaty much everything he said was true about reviews on high scores and low
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cmrbe
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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5 - The truth is
almost everyone one way or another is biased.
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meepmoopmeep
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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5.1 -
yeah i agree, but i wouldn't say ALL.
i'd say most.
we're human afterall.
favoritism and pride, FTW?
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agent_plang
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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5.2 -
Yep.
Even scientists are biased in their expected outcomes as they set out to prove or disprove theories, forcing the scientific community as a whole to rely on the principals of 'scientific method' to arrive at a somewhat guaranteed 'truth' eventually.
To expect any type of media outlet to be free from bias when such a thing can't be found anywhere else in society is ludicrous.
Everybody writes with influence drawn from personal feelings, preferences, and the pursuit of agendas related to their passion, be it to a small, average, or completely over the top degree.
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BlackCountryBob
- 352 days 1 hour ago
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5.3 -
Tis true that everyone has some bias of some sort and it is impossible to ignore your own opinions and feelings completely. However it is a big leap to go from personal opinions to saying the entire worlds press is taking part in an organised campaign of bias/discrimination against Sony products.
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agent_plang
- 351 days 23 hours ago
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5.4 -
Do you know anyone that believes there's a conspiracy? I've never seen that claim in so many words, at least by anyone being serious about it.
The "conspiracy" you're referring to is an invention by people who make fun of those that claim there's a large buildup of (not necessarily connected) specific anti PS3 bias.
You can say "All websites hate the PS3 and write biased articles against it" without insinuating that an organized conspiracy is to blame. It could be coincidental, or more realistically, the product of Sony's past and present position, disappointment, sensationalism, and general pettiness.
I don't personally believe that all gaming news has an anti PS3 bias, but I do think it's obvious and can easily be shown that some large outlets do. Some outlets are anti 360 as well, although it never seems to be as prominent.
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thebudgetgamer
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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6 - the fact that people can HATE!!! video games
will allways boggle my brain
:(
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EastCoastSB
- 352 days 7 hours ago
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6.1 -
It's become quite sad that people will hate/whine/complain about video games, just because it's on another system. They used to be about having fun and escaping from reality every once and a while.
Now it's turned into who sells more games.
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Unicron
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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7 -
The gaming media IS biased. It doesn't have to be against a particular system, but it's the truth. We all have preconceived notions on titles, and humans are inherently biased creatures. Professional review sites lack ethics and journalistic integrity. Most of all, they lack consistency. People should use reviews as what they are, no more than biased opinions. Anyone using them as facts is just doing themselves a disservice and missing out on titles they may love.
Reviewers today have a huge chip on their shoulders. No longer are we celebrating games and their achievements, instead relegated to listening to sites nitpick and complain and criticize unprofessionally in order to get hits and churn up revenue. Game reviews are a BUSINESS, and BUSINESSES ARE DESIGNED TO MAKE MONEY.
This is greater than console wars and "mine versus yours" crap. This is about our very hobby, and for some, our industry. To let these hate filled, biased fools have so much control over the consumer is a joke, and people really need to start using the tools available to them (their brain! demos! personal experience!) instead of what some fanboy says to make their decisions.
I'm sorry but if all the BS in reviews that has gone on at various outlets the past 2 years (The Gametrailers "editorial"/The Gametrailers "GRID" comparison fiasco/Kane & Lynch firings/"too much variety"/Shoe's infamous A+ review/Halo Swag bags among others) doesn't show people to value their own opinions over paid, biased, "professional" review outlets... then there is no hope for gamers.
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meepmoopmeep
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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7.1 -
Double Standards FTW?
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ultimolu
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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8 -
They are biased.
I say down with the hate. I'm sick of it.
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lord_of_balrogs
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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8.1 -
Funny, considering you promote your hate of MS every single day. Hyppocrite much?
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ultimolu
- 351 days 22 hours ago
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8.2 -
And you do the same with Sony.
I don't *love* any company. I only hate Microsoft's shameful tactics but their software is fine with me for the time being.
Oh noes, stop teh hate on Microsoft! :|
That's not what I meant where Microsoft is concerned. That was meant to imply that the hatred for Sony needs to stop.
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Sangria
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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9 -
Sadly, even in the most "unbiased" part of the media, there are biased. I worked for the french equivalent of IGN or Gamespot, and each editor was biased. One was only testing PC games, so he was as much PC-biased as NoFrag (french equivalent of... i don't know, maybe Cnet).
One was absolutely Nintendo. When a crappy DS or Wii game released (and trust me, there are tons!), she jumped on it, smelled the fresh book and played the game. One hates the PS3 because it's nearly identical as the 360 but released too late (and only for that).
Even if the site used to belong to Ubisoft and sold to a neutral agency, they are biased and try to stay as much professional as possible, but they are not, and in my opinion, nobody in gaming journalism is totally impartial.
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butterfinger
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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10 - This article was pretty...
well-written, and I agreed with most points. That being said, I don't think that Metacritic has some sort of bias against the PS3 (I would like to see more evidence of these sites that no one has heard of only being allowed on the PS3 section), and I think that Killzone 2 will be the first PS3 exclusive FPS to have an average over 90. Killzone 2's scores might tell us a lot about the gaming media, or they may just confirm what many of us have already believed.
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PirateThom
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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11 -
Good article.
I expect Killzone 2's metascore to be around 75-80 and not because it deserves scores like that, but because it'll be too hard for the gaming media to swallow rating it higher.
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ThatCanadianguy420
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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12 -
""With millions of xbox 360 consoles defective this generation, somehow the splotlight has been put on the ps3. Ps3 owners are being treated to groundbreaking games in terms of graphics, gameplay, and online multiplay, not to mention user created content, and will be the first console to support a lifelike 3d user environment and the first console to support an MMORPG, yet it cannot get a pass from the media, not once."
Quoted for truth.
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Xi
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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13 - I tend to disagree.
I think that they aren't unbaised.
Ps3 games are set to the standard which sony has declared for themselves, they have said that the ps3 is the best hardware for videogames so I think they should be be held to that standard. If PC games came out looking like 360 or ps3 games they wouldn't get as high scores. If the ps3 is better then the 360, which I think it is, then videogames with quality of that which is reproducable on the 360 should also recieve lower scores.
The 360 as of right now is the standard for HD gaming on consoles, and I say that in the sense that it's what is expected of consoles for the time being. If it is the case that the ps3 is more capable then the 360 then the scrutiney is valid, if not then sony needs to swallow some pride and say that. Imagine full priced wii games on the 360 with the preformance the 360 has, would you expect scores that are the same for both games?
The wii is in a league of it's own.
be carful what you wish for, if you want to claim it is the best then expect more scrutiney. Xbox games held the same fate last generation.
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meepmoopmeep
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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13.1 -
"The glass doesn't break realistically"
"There's too much variety"
those are quoted as negatives and downed 2 game's scores.
both exclusives, btw.
the thing is, if one game is scrutinized for something
then others should be as well.
there shouldn't be any double standards when reviewing
any game regardless of platform.
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Unicron
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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13.2 -
I think its silly to make such a good point Xi, which I disagree with however, and then say "the Wii is in a league of its own." It's almost contradictory. It's that very mentality that I think sinks credibility with review sites, and also negates ANY need or purpose for scores, since so much about that statement is heavily subjective.
I for one, could say "With so many sales and potential gamers, the Wii should be held to HIGHER standards than the PS3 and 360 in order to appease consumers." If every reviewer from the same site comes from a different train of thought, as you and I just showed, then what's the point in listing scores or taking reviews as anything above ONE person's opinion?
That's more food for thought for the thread, not a direct response to you however. You're definitely a great poster, I just disagree with you here.
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Xi
- 352 days 5 hours ago
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13.3 - the wii is in a league of it's own.
that comment is designed such that there really are no expectations "gamers" have for it. We know it's pretty much a game-cube, we know it's designed for casuals, and we know it's never going to stand up to the quality of games being produced for pc/ps3/360.
I mean, is it fair to give a game like super mario galaxy a 10 in graphics when we have games that look like crysis, mgs4, gears2, and up and coming killzone, alan wake, heavy rain? No, not by any means, because it's not adequately comparable.
That same sense is how I justify the "bias" for the ps3. It's like a child whose parents always have higher expectations, one day it will be benefitial then if we just keep giving everything on the ps3 10 out of 10.
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Showing: 1 - 19 of 19 Comments
trancefreak
- 352 days 12 hours ago
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1 -
Awesome read and really sums it all up.
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Shane Kim
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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2 -
Hate to admit it but that is probably the way it'll turn out for KZ2.
The two main things all of the reviewers will bring up is that it didn't live up to the 2005 trailer (even if it was pretty damn close and some parts of it even surpassed it)and that it is not revolutionary enough (still Halo 3 gets 9's and 10's all over with last gen gameplay and visuals). Lastly they will automatically remove 1 point for not being on sh!tbox.
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Steven Colbert
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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3 -
Every media mag/site is biased except for Game Informer
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4
kavkazip
| 352 days 9 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble -
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hadouken007
- 352 days 9 hours ago
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5 - true!
all true! that dude the truth!
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Obama
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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6 -
I agree that if kz2 is a 360 exclusive, it would receive 90+ overall. This is not a conspiracy theory..many people feel that this is the case.
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Nunalho
- 352 days 8 hours ago
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Good points, very well written and backed up.
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Magic_The_Celt
- 352 days 6 hours ago
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8 -
Yep
PEOPLE are biased and people are writing this stuff, everyone is more biased against something, im more biased against microsoft, another guy may be more biased against sony.
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Foliage
- 352 days 4 hours ago
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8.1 -
I can't blame you for being biased against Microsoft. Anyone with half a brain cell should be.
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Zool 08
- 352 days 3 hours ago
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8.2 -
Imagine the gaming world belonging to Microsoft, now that would be a scary thought. If you thought that Sonys arrogance was bad, it'll look humble compared to M$ arrogance. Dont say I did'nt warn you.
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Shane Kim
- 351 days 23 hours ago
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8.3 -
Zool 08
Hahaaha yeah. With CEO's like Aron Greenturd and Shane Dim that would be a scary thought. Luckily I'll abandon gaming way before that happen.
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9
SSCOOLCHEA
| 352 days 5 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble -
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Foliage
- 352 days 4 hours ago
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10 -
The worst part of all this is how we can already predict how Killzone 2 is going to be torn apart for the most retarded reasons. How has the media become this biased? None of these petty little dirty tactics were around before Microsoft came along. The kings of slant.
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Jenzo
- 352 days 3 hours ago
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11 - Note to Sony
Stop whining and make games that don't suck.
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Rs
- 352 days 2 hours ago
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11.1 -
You got nothing better to say? Thought so, not even the xbots could deny about the facts that is being summarize is this article.
Poor Jenzo want a PS3 but his mummie&dada give this kid a big "NO" as they bought him the cheapest console.
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Jenzo
- 352 days 1 hour ago
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11.2 -
LBP really came under extreme scrutiny from the gaming media with it's 95 avg. over at Metacritic.
Not to mention MGS4 with it's multiple GOTY awards and it's obviously biased 94 avg.
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Shane Kim
- 351 days 23 hours ago
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11.3 -
Jenzo you don't get it. LBP was a truly innovative game, it had no competition or anything + it was one hell of a game. That's why it got high ratings. MGS4 isn't even a Sony game in first place, second its a MGS game. They are bound to be high rated since kojima NEVER fails. Now since KZ2 is not on the xbox and because it's a FPS game WITHOUT the name "Halo" written all over it, every reviewer will probably compare this game to Halo and come down hard on it.
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Rapture333
- 351 days 13 hours ago
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12 -
I couldn't of said it better myself, that should leave fanboys speechless. Killzone 2 will be a great game but I just feel sorry for the gamers that don't go out and research games and see reviews stating negativity that is probably exaggerated and decides not to buy the game. It's sad really, the xbox 360 gets away with so much while the PS3 gets nothing but biased unsavory reviews, articles, etc.
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capadox
- 351 days 11 hours ago
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13 -
jenzo stop ride sony balls get off fa g u know u want a ps3 ur just too poor to afford it man i feel sorry for u.
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Showing: 1 - 19 of 19 Comments
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