Why MGS4's Release is 2008's Most Defining Event

Guitarded - 367 days 14 hours ago

The overly complex story is one of the reasons many don't like the series. The graphics have always been superb, the way the story is told has always been interesting and different. MGS4 took both of these to new levels, but the story itself is to long and full of wild, possibly drug induced, Metal Gear stupidity. It took something away from the gameplay for many. I do hope that developers will "borrow" some of the series production values. Just on shorter more coherent stories with more gameplay than story.

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DeathroW22 - 367 days 14 hours ago

The convoluted story is what made MGS, i don't think many fans would have it any other way.

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Guitarded - 367 days 13 hours ago

There are a lot of fans too. I can appreciate the fan service. I like the idea that Kojima? is looking at western development, though that may upset some of his fans.

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DeathroW22 - 367 days 12 hours ago

His games have always been more western than your typical japanese game, sure in the older games you can tell it is a game made by a japanese developer and even in MGS4, but they have usually been more western friendly than your average japanese game.

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FantasyStar - 367 days 12 hours ago

They were disappointed by MGS4's shoddy plot devices: nanomachines? c'mon. And the PowerPoint styled cut-scenes isn't MGS-esque: which is weird. MGS4 wrote itself into a huge hole mainly because of MGS2. There's a clear controversy as to whether MGS4 really did deliver in the story: SPOILERS BELOW(oh like it matters now...)

-BnB Unit felt "tacked on" -never really carried their own weight in the story.
-Liquid Ocelot (MGS2 Retcon)
-Big Mama's involvement in MGS4 was too short.(given her biggest role)
-Rosemary was effin' useless outside of "how do I stop sucking speeches"
-Lack of Codec Conversations(especially funny ones that defines the MGS series)
-Cam Clarke didn't return as Liquid. (Zimmerman, you were very good: but nothing can replace that fake, but sexy "british accent".

If you check various message boards: you'll see a clear line between people whom loved MGS3 more than MGS4. MGS4 as a whole is great and really out-did itself: but to the undying MGS fans of 10 years ago: it's hard to really accept this wonderful disaster as the masterpiece that Kojima is known for.

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PirateThom - 367 days 11 hours ago

I'm a fan of the series and I thought MGS4 was fantastic.

What now?

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Xiphos - 367 days 11 hours ago

@1.6: Ditto.

I may not have played the originals until MGS3: Subsistence, but the first time I got my hands on the original Metal Gear Solid at launch, I was hooked. I love the series, and I really loved MGS4. Sure, there are things I would have changed, but the game still totally delivered way past my expectations.

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Cerberus_Hunter - 367 days 10 hours ago

"The fans
They were disappointed by MGS4's shoddy plot devices:" And by that you mean yourself right?

-BnB Unit felt "tacked on" -never really carried their own weight in the story.

They where there to basically slow Snake down. Everything doesn't have to be story heavy to be important.

-Liquid Ocelot (MGS2 Retcon)

So?

-Big Mama's involvement in MGS4 was too short.(given her biggest role)
I'm glad for that actually...

-Rosemary was effin' useless outside of "how do I stop sucking speeches"
She was never useful...even in MGS2. Rosemary was more of a a distraction for Raiden.

-Lack of Codec Conversations(especially funny ones that defines the MGS series)
I agree but MGS4 is what 10 years after MGS2? Did you really think everything would be the same after 10 years??? or is that you didn't notice Otacon talking on the background?

-Cam Clarke didn't return as Liquid. (Zimmerman, you were very good: but nothing can replace that fake, but sexy "british accent".

Go play the game again to find why is that...

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HDgamer - 367 days 10 hours ago

A lot of people such as myself have been long time fans of Kojima's games. This game wasn't a disappointment. The fans of metal gear online and old vets from the mgs3: susbsistence online will agree. People aren't turned off by it, actually the newcomers are more turned off. Check out gamefaqs where most of the vets and fans hang out. I think you're one of the few who didn't like his games. As for everyone else, they love this game. The online is very strong.

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Keowrath - 367 days 10 hours ago

I absolutely adored MGS4 but agree with every single point you made. I would personally place MGS4 as my game of the year but I prefer MGS3 exactly because of the points you bring up.

*** SPOILERS BELOW ***

The BnB on their own were fine but when you compare them to the previous bosses they paled in comparison. All they had in explanation was a simple few lines from Drebin. They needed work. That being said they're still extremely enjoyable bosses just not quite up to previous standards.

Liquid Ocelot, I hated the whole brain washing idea into thinking he was liquid. They had to think something up and I'm not really what they could have done to improve on the brain washing idea.

Yup, Big Mama needed to play a bigger part. You only just get to meet her before she's gone. I think this helps to make her death all the more tragic though.

Rosemary was effin useless... Agreed but in her previous game she was effin annoying so I didn't really have a problem there.

Lack of Codec, this one definitely. 3 had some amazing conversations, some were hysterical, I loved the crocodile convo. 4 didn't really give us anyone to call.

Cam Clarke, yeah liquid wasn't the same without him but it was Liquid Ocelot, not liquid snake! (clutching at straws) Zimmerman did do a great job but it would have been nice for Cam Clarke to return.

That being said I enjoyed the game immensely, the final battle was epic and the chance to control Rex one last time was incredible! The return to Shadow moses was great but could have done with some more areas/enemies.

And yes I played through the game to get the boss emblem =)

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thor - 367 days 8 hours ago

The story of MGS is not a particularly convoluted one. It's just that they lie to you a lot. Remember in MGS2? The colonel lying to you the whole time? They use the exact same themes in MGS4; deception. If you took out all the lies you'd be left with a much less complicated plot. I think that many people don't understand it because there are all these lies going around that they take as truth. The "wisemen's committee" is a good example of this. It was clear by the end of MGS2 (to me at least) that the wisemen's committee was simply the network of AIs you'd been talking to. But people claimed that the wisemen's committee was actually a group of 12 people, because they'd been lied to in the game.

Liquid Ocelot was a U-turn on an already established plot point. They probably felt a bit stupid for having introduced liquid's arm that changes Ocelot into Liquid, so they simply pretended it never happened. The moment of revelation when we found out that Liquid had Ocelot's motives all along was not made clear enough, and a lot of supernatural elements are eschewed in favour of technology - nanomachines are used to explain too much. Foxdie was always meant to be nanomachines, but I'd have liked to have seen Vamp's superhuman abilities explained in a supernatural way. Some things should have been left open, as well, as they are in all good books and films.

The fundamental problem, of course, is that MGS2 was intended to be the last game in the Solid Snake storyline, or so I have heard. They certainly didn't plan out the plot when they created the game. The plot for the first 2 Metal Gears wasn't exactly as rich and convoluted as those of the later games, and I can't think that they themselves knew what the cause of everything was at that point, who the Patriots were etc.

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Homicide - 367 days 7 hours ago

I agree fantasystar. MGS4 was pretty disappointing. It didn't take itself seriously.

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man0fsteel - 367 days 7 hours ago

I thought that the revelation of nanomachines in the MGS series were equivalent to finding out that the midichlorins were the source of a jedi's/Sith's Force power in Star Wars Episode 1. It gave a higher purpose and understanding to the story and underlying explanation as to why things happened the way it did. I really thought the whole concept was awesome.

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SL1M DADDY - 366 days 17 hours ago

Just needed to post up and say...

I could not disagree more with your statememtn. MGS4 was and will always be the best of the series for me. MGS1, then 3 follow as close seconds.

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earwax - 367 days 12 hours ago

The best CARTOON I ever watched.

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CrazzyMan - 367 days 11 hours ago

LoL.

MGS4 is a GAME of the DECADE.

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Rhoic - 367 days 3 hours ago

You know.. considering it outsold the biggest release of all time, Halo 3? >_>

This is almost just fanboy nonsense.

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liquidsnake - 367 days 15 hours ago

Hahaha it almost looks like the guy with the glasses are about to cry at the end of the video. No shame though, I did it myself when Snake was frying.

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nbnt - 367 days 16 hours ago

Playing as Big Boss ... is Like No Other.

:"(

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Idree - 367 days 15 hours ago

True, MGS3 was better.

But MGS4 was more defining as the article explains xD.

I loved both games equally :)

Cept Naked Snake is so much more badass :P

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liquidsnake - 367 days 15 hours ago

Well mine is still MGS1 and after that MGS2/3/4 (Sorry can't rate them, they are equally good)

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Rikitatsu - 367 days 14 hours ago

I agree :(

While MGS1 was the best in the series, I still prefer MGS3 over 2 and 4!

BTW you're a Mod in Rival's soul ? xD

I remember seeing your name there.

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nbnt - 367 days 13 hours ago

@Rikitatsu

Yes , i was a Mod in Rival's soul ..

Now i'm True Gamer in TG Only :P

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DeathroW22 - 367 days 15 hours ago

Since the solid saga has ended, unless they make a prequel. Even still, i wouldn't be worried, kojima would be writing the story, scripts etc.

He said he would be involved in future metal gears, just not taking a direct position in the team.

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Homicide - 367 days 10 hours ago

It's funny that about half of those were claimed to be anti-PS3.

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Graphics Whore - 367 days 13 hours ago

Intelligent people like intelligent games, enough said.

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DeathroW22 - 367 days 12 hours ago

No you didn't.

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solsub - 367 days 12 hours ago

Different people like different games. Apparently many, many people really liked this "interactive movie".

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solsub - 367 days 12 hours ago

As much as you don't like it, it has been a defining game this generation. Sorry.

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dragonZ28 - 367 days 11 hours ago

Someone's been drinking the Sony Kool-Aid, huh?

That game had about 4-4.5hrs of gameplay 1st time through, tops. You guys crack me up. It had little to no gameplay. Keep lying to yourself to make it feel like GOTY in your Sony brainwashed minds.

MGS4 sucked bigtime. I liked the move UltraViolet more than the movie MGS4 anyday.

MGS4 had more dumb plot-twists than an M. Night Smamammalalalaman movie. At the end, Liquid tells you they have been molding you over the course of the series to do what happened at the end of MGS4. My question is, haven't they been trying to kill Snake in every game??? Also, why didn't Liquid just blow the ship up himself??? I know why - because the game sucked and it made no sense!

MGS4 is the worst movie ever made. Here's a cliche - Smoking makes you a badass! Everytime they want snake to look badass, he lights up a smoke!!! Wow! That's badass! Where does Kojima get this type of genius thinking from? Man, he is the smartest guy in the world and he is truly an artist! Give me a break. This movie sucked, and Kojima sucks.

I know the PS3 is a movie player, but this is one movie they really shouldn't have made.

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Graphics Whore - 367 days 11 hours ago

"Keep lying to yourself to make it feel like GOTY in your Sony brainwashed minds."

Lol It actually IS GOTY.

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PirateThom - 367 days 11 hours ago

Ah, you know the desperation sets in when it's dismissed as a "movie".

Just like LittleBigPlanet is dismissed as kiddy.

But, I guess some people just can't accept the Blu-ray player had the best games this year.

I feel sorry for you, more than anything, you've gone off on a big rant there and it doesn't change my opinion of the game. Way to go.

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PS3roxx - 367 days 11 hours ago

I love PS3 and hated MGS4. You are flat out lying when you say it has more gameplay than 90% of games. There was virtually no gameplay and dragonz is correct in pretty much all of his comments. MGS4 was a movie.

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chewy317 - 367 days 15 hours ago

sigh pp there should be a 'closed' zone where u keep all ure lies crap bs with u and u alone.

get a life plz mgs4 is a great game admit it.

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DeathroW22 - 367 days 15 hours ago

MGS4 still sold 3million in two weeks, which is two weeks faster than your precious GoW2 :)

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/artic...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

PS: I like both games, don't mark this down as fanboy crap. Just correcting this idiot :) (Check my profile for Gamercard and you'll see i've been playing it recently)

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kazuma - 367 days 15 hours ago

lol here i come to the open zone to check things out, hadn't been here for a while and lol.
you're still alive? i thought you would be dead already, ya know, which such bullshit alive in there, it can't be healthy lol

lol you truly are the troll of all trolls

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liquidsnake - 367 days 15 hours ago

Hahah yeah, a PP zone would be nice.

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