BioShock PS3 dev: 'Blu-ray hasn't made much difference'

UNCyrus - 483 days 21 hours ago

they got the quote wrong... "(we didn't utilize its potential, so) blu-ray hasn't made much difference"

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Jenzo - 483 days 20 hours ago

"In terms of specific things, it hasn't made much difference. The original game fit on a 360 disk so it wasn't like we were in need of room. We've tried to do what we can to make sure that the PS3 looks just as great as the 360, but in terms of necessarily utilising something specific about Blu-ray, to my knowledge, Blu-ray hasn't necessarily made a huge difference."

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DARKKNIGHT - 483 days 20 hours ago

LOL. thats because its a port. A port which was kept timed exclusive for a long time. why would they make it better? thy made their bread. I dont understand how people post this FUD. Why compare a port? lets compare heavyhitters this fall. then well see what the verdict is. I know the answer, but i wont state it due to it being my personal opinion and i dont wanna offend anyone.

edit: lookits the 3 amigos hitting disagree. I wonder who that is? mart/firstknight/pog= same person...

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Bangladesh - 483 days 20 hours ago

It has more to do with devs being forced to use redundant data to compensate for the ps3's slow read speed. It would seem like if Sony had really wanted blu-ray to revolutionize gaming this gen, they would have put something better than a 2x speed BR player in the ps3. Sadly, instead gamers have gotten redundant data and mandarory installs(wtf 25gb of space on the disc), when they should have had epic 100-200 hr games.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007...
http://arstechnica.com/jour...

This isn't suprising because of the methods devs must take to make a game run properly on the ps3.

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Winter47th - 483 days 20 hours ago

You think? porting a game from a last-gen format ' 9 gigs DVD' to a next-gen '50 gigs Blue-Ray' won't make much of a difference cause, well, your efforts are last-gen-ish.

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HowarthsNJ - 483 days 20 hours ago

Redundant data can be found on DVD as well. Oblivion being a good example.

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DARKKNIGHT - 483 days 20 hours ago

This is pointless. Like i said before, THIS FALL is where the show is at. Comparing 1 year old software is pretty worthless when the big guns are around the corner. publisher is either begging for hits or tryna start sumthin

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Idonthatejustcreate - 483 days 20 hours ago

Bangladesh we are talking about the sheer amount of content you can put on the blueray disc not the speed of it. If they had utilize the blueray to the max they could have extended the gameplay of bioshock by approximetly 280%.

But here you are bashing on the ps3 again with every chance you get. Some people just can't be unbiased but I guess there's an ignore button for a reason...

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rexor0717 - 483 days 20 hours ago

Like they are going to do more than port it to have so much more. It will look better, but not so much better.

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Bangladesh - 483 days 20 hours ago

Are you saying that no ps3 games have mandatory installs? Are you saying that the average ps3 game is an epic game of 25gb worth of space? Because it would be lieing if it is. 25gb!! That's 5 times more space than it takes to make an average game.

@just create
So you guys are talking about something that the ps3 can't possibly do? That doesn't make sense.

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Freckler - 483 days 20 hours ago

Bangladesh is right mates, what he said has been common knowledge for over a year now. Some of you must be new to this generation.

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PopEmUp - 483 days 19 hours ago

finally you have a decent post bubble for you but not yet I need to see more of those comments coming from you, not some fanboish comments you've made in the past

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Tweedy - 483 days 19 hours ago

Can a guy make a point and back it up with proof and get bullied with disagrees.

Nice point Bangladesh.

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whoelse - 483 days 19 hours ago

When its just a port with a few minor improvements, obviously Blu-ray is less important.

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HowarthsNJ - 483 days 19 hours ago

No. I said Blu-ray being slow is a myth.

It's slightly slower than a single layer DVD 9, but equal to or slightly faster than a Double layer DVD 9.

Most if not all disc based 360 games are double layer DVD 9 with the game content not exceeding 6.7 GBs stored on the faster read areas of the DVD. MS's hidden files fill the rest of the disc.

Blu-ray can equal or better the performance of Dual layered DVD 9.

Ms Miller from 2K has been spouting the same mantra about Bioshock PS3 for months even though the game was passed on to another developer for the finishing touches.

I don't think she would be the one to go to about the final product on blu-ray. Even if they are able to lessen the compression by a few GBs that would be an improvement over DVD 9.

http://www.videogamer.com/n...

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Bangladesh - 483 days 19 hours ago

I think that you are bending things alot.
http://www.maxconsole.net/?...

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iceman2885 - 483 days 19 hours ago

That quote from the article hit the nail on the head.

I've never heard of people talking about blu-ray improving the game by anything other than allowing the developer to include more data on a disc and thus make the game bigger, more detailed, etc...

So logically, if the game already fit onto a smaller disc, what benefit would the blu-ray provide? Unless the developer wants to go into the original game and add in more gameplay or detail than the orignal game, then the blu-ray really doesn't make that much of a difference.

I hope that made sense.

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DJ - 483 days 19 hours ago

Let's see what Bethesda has to say about the "Redundant Data" blu-ray myth:

"Bethesda's Pete Hines also commented that recent reports of data duplication on the PS3 Oblivion disc have been exaggerated, and this technique isn't different from the Similar Strategy that was employed in the creation of the Xbox 360 Game last year."

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3...

Data duplication has been employed ever since the release of the PS1. If you have the space, use it.

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HowarthsNJ - 483 days 18 hours ago

I used this guy's research:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

Single Layer DVD is 1.57MB per second Faster than Single Layer Blu-ray at data transfer (on average).

Dual Layer DVD is 1.07MB per second Slower than Single Layer Blu-ray at data transfer (on average).

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Armyless - 483 days 18 hours ago

I can't believe this article is "news" to anyone.

If you copy a "floppy" to a CD, the CD extra space hasn't made much difference.

Port.

I have 2 questions for the developer.
1) Why are you even using Blu-Ray to print your PORT of the game for the PS3? Why not just give them a DVD too?
2) If every console had next-gen storage, do you think the development of this game would have stopped at DVD capacity?

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BoBo33 - 483 days 18 hours ago

From what I've read and seen with my own two eyes, what Bangladesh posted is FACT. How many ps3 games do you have installed right now? The publically revealed reason for these installs is to help load times. And what is the cause of slow load times? A slow read speed. And what is another method besides installs to help load times? Duplicate data.

Hey atleast the ps3's puny 2x speed drive is whisper quiete.

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DJ - 483 days 18 hours ago

Because every PS3 comes with an internal hard drive that developers can, and should use. Hard Drives stream data exponentially faster than disc-based media, whether you're talking about CDs, DVDs, or Blu-ray.

It essentially eliminates load times, the bane of videogames, while also retaining the graphical and audio fidelity that current-gen games require. Also Bobo, it's important to understand that Slow Load Times are only partially reliant on data streaming off a storage device.

The second factor is system architecture (bandwidth, CPU speed, etc).

The third factor is proper programming.

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Expy - 483 days 17 hours ago

"It has more to do with devs being forced to use redundant data to compensate for the ps3's slow read speed. It would seem like if Sony had really wanted blu-ray to revolutionize gaming this gen, they would have put something better than a 2x speed BR player in the ps3. Sadly, instead gamers have gotten redundant data and mandarory installs(wtf 25gb of space on the disc), when they should have had epic 100-200 hr games."

John Carmack would completely disagree... which really puts you in the dust. You'll see, with his next game, RAGE, that the additional space will be an issue going down the road this gen, he's stated himself that Blu-Ray is PS3's big advantage.

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gameplayer - 483 days 17 hours ago

Look, Blu-ray's strength is it's space. It's Achille's heel (at 2x Blu-ray speed vs 12x DVD speed) is it's read speed. Period. (It has nothing to do with the 2x being a smaller number than 12x for people that don't know much about the two standards)

1. Blu-ray is a Constant Linear Velocity device. This is done because the drive is only capable of reading data up to a certain threshold (DVD started it's life like this also) so the disc spins slower and slower as it reads data farther and farther out from the center of the disc. The big point here is that the disc has to physically spin faster and slower to read from different areas. It takes milliseconds for the read head to move to a different part of the disc but it takes dozens of milliseconds for the disc to speed up or slow down causing a lag for each file read. This is why developers are forced to replicate data all over the disc to physically put the data for each area of the game close together on the disc. This helps minimize the effect and keeps it from being hundreds of extra milliseconds vs dozens of extra milliseconds but those milliseconds add up, and quickly. It has forced many developers to install games on the ps3's hard drive instead. Ironically, the larger the level on a Blu-ray disc, the worse the data lag because it uses up a larger section of the disc.

2. DVD is a Constant Angular Velocity device. It always spins at the same speed so data is read faster as you move closer to the outside of the disc. This eliminates the extra lag created by having to speed up and slow down how fast the disc is spinning. The problem with the fanboys is they always compare blu-ray to the AVERAGE read speed of DVD. This is retarded. Games are MASTERED. This means that the game data for levels are placed at the outside of the disc where the read speed is fastest and things like music, cutscenes, menus etc are placed along the inside of the disc where the read speed is slower. Furthermore, if a game is 6Gb instead of the full 8.5Gb capacity of the disc, then the inside area of the disc is filled with useless data so all of the game data is as far from the center as possible and the maximum read speed is >>ALWAYS<< reached. This is BASIC stuff guys. Mastering techniques have been used for almost as long as DVD has existed and if a developer didn't use them, it would be considered INCOMPETENT. Like fire my @ss I'm so eff'ing stupid incompetent.

There is no doubt in my mind that Blu-ray will become faster than DVD as the technology ramps up over time (actually I think that the next generation drives will in fact be faster) but the PS3 will always have a 2x Blu-ray drive and the 360 will always have a 12x DVD drive and a 2x Blu-ray drive will always be slower than a 12x DVD drive(disc mastering is a given assumption).

And for the love of god people, it's >>BLU-RAY<< not blueray or blue-ray .

Edit
DJ, data replication is a common mastering technique aswell which minimizes lag caused by minimizing movement of the read head (and changing disc speed for Blu-ray). Peter Hines didn't lie here, it is common industry practice.

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DJ - 483 days 17 hours ago

Yeah, exactly what I was saying. It's a common industry practice that dates WAY back, and a clever one at that.

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Montrealien - 483 days 16 hours ago

yet another article to get people up in arms for nothing. I`m just happy people that could not enjoy this game on the 360 will have a chance to on the PS3 now. We all know both consoles are very comparable in the gfx department, no storage medium will ever change that.

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thebudgetgamer - 483 days 16 hours ago

so somebodys lying

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Montrealien - 483 days 16 hours ago

Mr Carmack said he needed 3 discs for the same result and didn`t want to pay royalties for it, so someone is missunderstanding. ;D

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popup - 483 days 16 hours ago

The fact that the dev says "The original game fit on a 360 disk so it wasn't like we were in need of room" said it all! If they had quadrupled the size of the game and added an hour of HD footage then I imagine it would be advantageous to have Blu-Ray for the PS3 version. This is called common sense if you understand this and delusional paranoia if you don't.

Can't everyone just save for all the consoles and just talk about the games instead? :)

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Ateanboy - 483 days 14 hours ago

OFCOURSE it hasn't made much difference!!!
The game was initially created to fit on 1 DVD!!!
If the game where to have been made from scratch on the PS3, and it wasn't just a port, then they would be saying something quite different!

DUH!

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Beast_Master - 483 days 14 hours ago

Wasn't the original game built using the unreal engine as well. Unreal and PS3 do not make a good match (Turok, Unreal 3) which is why so many developers are now either building their own engines or buying other ones other than epics.

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DaTruth - 483 days 14 hours ago

Is 12x a unit of speed? Or is it 12* faster than original DVD speed. Isn't it possible that they didn't judge the Blu-ray disk speed from the original 1998 DVD speed and are actually judging it on the original BR-disk read speed, thus 2x 2006 tech speed.
Not to mention that the information is in a smaller space due to the size of the laser beam, so likely reading more at a slower speed which would explain why the read speeds are so close(not including X-box fanboy angry about HD-DVD information sites).

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iamtehpwn - 483 days 12 hours ago

It was a game Designed for a single DVD9.
Of course bluray isn't making much of a difference in this case.
But as MGS4 proved, some games absolutely need bluray.

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princejb134 - 483 days 10 hours ago

of course it made no difference
the game was already made
its not like they extending the story in any way to make it a longer game

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pixelsword - 483 days 6 hours ago

This article is a big win for PS3 owners
...if the whole game fit on a DVD, OF COURSE Blu-Ray won't make a difference. So how is this a big win for PS3 owners? For all of the Naysayers of the PS3 who always said the Blu-Ray had to copy the game multiple times for it to run on a Blu-Ray... The Bioshock Devs PROVED THEM WRONG.

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PirateThom - 483 days 21 hours ago

The PS3 has the same amount of RAM as the 360, but half of it runs faster.

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PirateThom - 483 days 19 hours ago

I'm honestly still trying to work out the disagrees from this...

XBox 360 - 512 MB GDDR3 RAM @700 MHz
PS3 - 256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz and 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

256 + 256 = 512, so that's the same....
3.2Ghz = 3200Mhz = 4.5 x 700Mhz = FASTER!

Really... do you people even THINK!?

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morganfell - 483 days 19 hours ago

But you actually hit the nail on the head. The game was designed for DVD9. It isn't like they bothered using higher res textures for which there were plenty of room on Bluray. Or adding additional areas to the SP Campaign. They actually did a nose above the bare amount of work by adding challenge rooms.

A 757 isn't an advantage over a Cessna 172 if the airline is only going to sale the same number of seats on the 757 as are on the Cessna 172. Bluray is no different. If devs aren't going to avail themselves of the space, if they are going to choose to develop within the limits of last generation then of course there will be no advantage.

Look at modern graphics cards or even 3D acceleration. There has been a resurgence lately of titles that are something of a throwback in graphical terms. Are they still good games? Yes, for PSN and Live Arcade. Are they pushing the limits? No.

For a dev not to avail themselves of a modern technological advantage like Bluray is no different than a dev pushing modern consoles no farther than the N64.

I love this ridiculous argument I hear from certain people I have not yet blocked that goes something like this: "You don't need more space than DVD9. There are plenty of great games on DVD9." Really? By that moronic line of reasoning devs shouldn't push modern console any harder than the N64 since there were plenty of great games using that amount of storage medium. Great games on DVD9 is an epic fail as an argument against using Bluray.

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gameplayer - 483 days 17 hours ago

piratethom, the ps3 has more memory reserved for system operating tasks than the 360. Yes, they have the same amount of ram but the ps3 has a little less available to the developer. Also, some would argue that being able to split 512MB into any proportion is an advantage over the 256+256 configuration so one is a little faster and one is a little more flexible... advantage - who knows? Probably depends on the game and what the developer wants to do.

edit, I'm not one of the people that hit disagree btw. Not my style, I just state my opinion instead of doing the phantom disagree. :)

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Bangladesh - 483 days 14 hours ago

And if anyone needs to know, the reason the ps3 has less useable RAM is because it has a much larger OS footprint.

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DaTruth - 483 days 14 hours ago

They could have streamed higher res uncompressed textures off the BR-disk. But than they would have to practically re-do the entire game, when it's already a decent title. And MS would have a heart attack they're insecure. Last Gen we never heard all this "we're making the games exactly the same" If the Xbox could handle more than often they would do more, instead we have burnout island free download that would have fit on the BR-Disk but MS would cry.

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DaTruth - 483 days 13 hours ago

How much ram does it take to uncompress the highly compressed music and textures on the 360 that won't be compressed on the PS3? I know my computer can't play matroska video because it's too highly compressed.

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ApocalyPS3 - 483 days 13 hours ago

you're forgetting the 10mb edram

so

ps3 has 256mb + 256mb
360 has 512mb + 10mb

And that edram is many times over the speed of the xdr. If people say that having 256mb of xdr is like having 1gb of gddr3, then just imagine how much having 10mb of edram would compare to the xdr.

Now, on a side note it's not just so easy to say that the memory is "like" having more. The addresses end at "x", so there's no way to address more. They still need to anticipate that there is ONLY "x" memory and that's IT. The speed just means how much can EVENTUALLY be accessed, over "n" time. The more bandwidth, the sooner it can get to the next chunk of "x" memory.

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bumnut - 483 days 20 hours ago

we can't have 2 towelies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

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jojo319 - 483 days 20 hours ago

For MGS4, how much of the BR disc is taken up by movies, and how much of it is the actual game? does anybody know? I'm just curious.

I will never understand why people disagree with questions.

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IDemonstalkerXI - 483 days 19 hours ago

I would say 85% is taken up by game and assets. 15% FMV and its pretty close to using up the whole dual layer BD. The movies have semi-interactive qualitys as well. For example during the mission brief you can explore using the MK II. Another example would be snake peeping Naomi's assets at certain points in a cinematic you may have the ability to press a button and alter your view point.

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juuken - 483 days 20 hours ago

And the 360 fanbaby flaps in the wind.

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rawd - 483 days 20 hours ago

Don't you have some mediocre rated games to defend somewhere?

Help me Kevin Perreira, your my only hope

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spoon - 483 days 20 hours ago

I reportd this article.

u shud to the same. they got the quote wrong . fake article

quote is : but in terms of necessarily utilising something specific about Blu-ray.

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Kleptic - 483 days 17 hours ago

so how exactly would blu ray make a difference on a UE3 based game already made to fit on DVD?...I am seriously just wondering...what did anyone else expect?...

you get this either eay from every dev...if they are starting development with the PS3 in mined, the BD space is said to be 'invaluable'...if its a multiplatform game, or even leading on the 360, its not a big deal...whatever...

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Pain - 483 days 16 hours ago

It would be Much different.

DX 9/DVD 9 FTL.

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KBDuB - 483 days 14 hours ago

Blu Ray really won't make much of a difference.. The only thing it will do is allow extra space for more content and such, and no compression.

But, for the actual game.. Blu Ray won't make much of a difference.

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Dyingduck - 483 days 14 hours ago

This game was made like back in the days - BR wasn't even mainstreamed back then...stupid...let's talk about the future: RAGE

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pixelsword - 483 days 6 hours ago

...if the whole game fit on a DVD, OF COURSE Blu-Ray won't make a difference. So how is this a big win for PS3 owners? For all of the Naysayers of the PS3 who always said the Blu-Ray had to copy the game multiple times... The Bioshock Devs PROVED THEM WRONG.

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straightpiff420 - 483 days 7 hours ago

wow whoever wrote the title of this article is a idiot and totally turned the whole qoute around lol

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Chubear - 483 days 20 hours ago

Oh thank the gaming gods there are still people with brains in the gaming community.

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Lost_My_600_Dollar - 483 days 20 hours ago

I know they didn't add anything , but the framerate issue is still exist or maybe worse than any version

Life goes on

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Drealmcc0y - 483 days 20 hours ago

Yh who wants AAA games?
/sarcasm

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spoon - 483 days 20 hours ago

Sir Ken Kutaragi heres some good news for u. xobx suck assss

I once was a 360 fanboy and hated ps3. i had to much bad experince. PS3 all the way now

P S 3 . KING OF ALL THINGS GAMING

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Sir_Ken_Kutaragi - 483 days 19 hours ago

Nice one;) Welcome to the PlayStation Family!!!;-D
PS3 is really excellent;) It gets better and better to ;-P

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Sir_Ken_Kutaragi - 483 days 16 hours ago

I see the cheating xBots on this have got you down to 1 Bubble :-/
You should start up a new name!!! They CHEAT. Because i don't understand why 'pp' can go on every PS3 News and STILL??? have 5 Bubbles??? And the Mod's do F-ALL about it??? Hmm
Bubble for you mate, hope you get them back.

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ApocalyPS3 - 483 days 13 hours ago

welcome to side of people who overcompensate by increasing their bubbles with their multiple accounts. and saying bad things about others when they say that they like a another console.

one less hope of peace.

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juuken - 483 days 20 hours ago

...And you don't own a PS3 and you've never played it.
Go play some Flop Human and Infinite Undiscovery Flopnomics please.

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dkgshiz - 483 days 20 hours ago

You would know, its more like 70 min total of cutscenes. Besides the game scored perfect 10s, its by far the best game this year. Or LBP. Either way your panties leaked red, so now your in need of a tampon. Thats why your on a little wiener rage. If MGS4 wasn't a PS3 exclusive you would be playing it like mad. Your just a sore loser.

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caffman - 483 days 20 hours ago

and just ONE of the cutscenes is longer than 70 mins!

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juuken - 483 days 20 hours ago

And the campaign is well worth it?

For a game that's just a movie...MGS4 sure got a lot of 10's and 9's...

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Lost_My_600_Dollar - 483 days 20 hours ago

Set back and enjoy your Movie

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idontcare - 483 days 20 hours ago

another gamer who is afraid of the real next gen power that is ps3 ;-)

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PopEmUp - 483 days 20 hours ago

lol he has a period you see

@5.5 you mean set back and let you watch the Red Ring

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caffman - 483 days 20 hours ago

I wasn't saying it was a bad game (in fact it was the first I got on PS3), I was saying that it has a lot of cutscenes!

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ThatCanadianguy420 - 483 days 19 hours ago

LOL! Still bashing the MGS4 cut-scenes?? whats wrong kid?

You know you cant bash the graphics-best graphics on any game
You know you cant bash the gameplay it f*ckin rocks

So what do you do? whine and complain about the cut scenes
Booo hoooo :(
If your precious Halo 3 had that much visual bliss you'd be singing a different tune.

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Shane Kim - 483 days 17 hours ago

I played Mass Effect the other day. Boy did that game have cutscenes...but I can't see any bots complaining about that.

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juuken - 483 days 17 hours ago

And you couldn't just say it was a good game? The cutscenes informs people who *are not* familiar with the franchise on *what* the hell is going on!

Plus, you can *gasp* skip them!

WHO WOULDA THUNK!

Dumbass bots.

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Deadman64 - 483 days 16 hours ago

You say that like you never have bashed a game without playing it....

The point of this article is being everyone thought the game was gonna be so much 'better' because it was coming out on PS3, a year or so later even. In reality, PS3's blu-ray did not make much of a 'difference' here.

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KBDuB - 483 days 14 hours ago

Did you seriously bring up Mass Effect into this discussion? Lol. You are even more of an idiot than I thought..

Mass Effect is an RPG.. Of course it's going to have a lot of cut scenes.

MGS4 is a shooter.. 'Nuff said.

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ApocalyPS3 - 483 days 13 hours ago

Mass Effect is an RPG, but it has a strong 3rdPS aspect to it. Now, can we say that its story sucked? Nope. Same thing with MGS4. I don't mind having a few hours of cinema IF the story doesn't suck.

I guess it's the compromise we make when these developers start thinking that shooters need explanations as to why they're shooting. I'm all for it, and besides if you want a PURE shooter experience just play a different game. I'm sorry to say this, but the genre has been so over-saturated that you can put down one game and pick up another and still feel like you were playing the first one.

Games like MGS4 and Mass Effect won't leave you feeling like you've already played something like it.

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juuken - 483 days 20 hours ago

You go back to school to learn English. You don't know our language very well. You very stoooopid bot!

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PopEmUp - 483 days 20 hours ago

Uncharted and Heavenly sword say hi

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ozhuerta - 483 days 19 hours ago

Want to know what a "waste of money" is? That incredible, future-proof hd-dvd add-on. Great!
Another idiot. They just won't die soon enough...

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Shane Kim - 483 days 17 hours ago

Uncharted, MGS4, Heavenly Sword, GT5:P (even a "demo" kills everything on your crapbox) and soon to be Infamous, KZ2 (do i need to say more), Heavy Rain, R2 and so on. Even Lair looks better than anything on xbox except maybe for Gears.

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KBDuB - 483 days 14 hours ago

Maybe English is not his first(1st) spoken language, ever think about that Mrs. TwoChin? You very stoooopid TwoChin!

"You go back to school to learn English." Go work on your grammar.

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buckethead_X - 483 days 12 hours ago

You shouldn't worry too much about grammar on the internet. You never know where someone is from or what language they speak. KBDuB, have you ever seen juuken in real life? And I'm just wondering if you know what a comma splice is. Sorry. I thought it was time to criticize everyone's English :P

Anyway, Lost is entitled to his opinion, no matter how misinformed he is.

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KBDuB - 483 days 14 hours ago

Don't hate. You're English is not that great, either.

Go work on YOUR English and we'll talk.

Lol. You're a hypocrite. Good job, moron. =)

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spoon - 483 days 20 hours ago

Quote is wrong u liv a lie. i bet your mum and dad say they luv u and and made you

but really they adopted you. your real parents are fish mongers and they tried to get u adopted by donkey.donkeys dont adopt jackass's.

so your real father who is calld "D1ck Burns" threw u into a rivr and u ended up being adopted by ape family who hate you and lie to u as well and thats the best family u can get.

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