CVG: Heavenly Sword not possible on DVD

The benefits of the higher storage capacity of Sony's Blu-Ray discs have once again been pulled into the spotlight as Heavenly Sword chief development 'Ninja', Nina Kristensen, tells CVG that the game would simply not be possible on DVD.

"We have jam-packed the Blu-Ray disc absolutely full," declared Kristensen, as she confirmed rumours that the audio alone was allocated 10GB of space on the 25GB Blu-Ray discs.

[macsto]

yet its only 7 hrs long. So so sad, multi regions on 1 disc FTL.

[xhi4]

12-15 hours long.

[macsto]

Yeah, if you're totally retarded.

Just like GOW was "12-15 hrs"

[xhi4]

She stated "it coudn't fit on a DVD9". She states that. Are you developers who know better than she does, Killzone 2 level alone takes up 2GB and thats only in pre-pre alhpa stage.

This is...as was stated before in a press release is "12-15 hours long". Not 7 hours, or some of you xbots are now trying to reduce it to 6 hours. These are the first batch of games for the PS3, including RFOM and Motorstorm. Games after these will take more advantage of it's power and will be better i promise you Lorenzferus.

I don't understand why you are hating on Heavenly Sword. It's recieving 9's, 8's, 8.5's. Is that a bad game? Okay it's not Bioshock (which I own and loveee) but it's not a bad game, it's actually a really good game. If they demo is anything to go by, the controls are magnificent.

The fact is Blu-Ray is next gen. DVD is old gen. Get over it. Developers who utilise Blu-Ray don't need to compress. Although many do as she STATED the team have in order to fit everything on a single-layer disc. Blu-ray allows for more quality and quantity, not MUST have compression and lesser quality textures, sound quality, features etc.

...i don't understand you xbots.

And btw. the official press release (which I will edit in) stated the game to be 12-15 hours long. This means on the box, it will say 12-15 hours. Please don't try and change this number for arguments sake...please.

[beavis4play]

the comparison with bioshock really is a good one because they are 2 different genres. like comparing ratchet to killzone. comparing it to GOW would be closer.

[nasim]

LOST PLANET (x360 version) had barely any sound in it. CAPCOM couldnt fit the compressed sound files in the DVD.

same goes to GEARS. even if you max the volume of ur TV u get no sound.

HS sound files could be compressed to at best 5gb ---no less than that

[CG]

10GB of audio??? WTF why wasnt that 10GB used for something more usefull like errm making the game longer than 6-7 hours, i mean isnt that the main advantage of blu-ray ( bigger longer games)??

The lair and heavenly sword devs have been saying there games are only possible on blu-ray but yet both games can be completed in 6 hours??? huh

Why the hell would you need to use 10GB just for audio?? the sound in heavenly sword isnt any better than others games...

[marionz]

its stupid to use 10GB for music alone, dont they know how to compress?
this game could easily be doen on dvd but sony thinks we are stupid enough to believe their lies, just like how resistance nearly filled a blu ray, its total bs
if i hear sony claim a game can only be doen on ps3 again i think im going to puke

[jay3]

Well, with Blu Ray it kind of allows devs to be kinda lazy. They could very well have compressed, but with the amount of space on a Blu Ray disc they don't have to.

There are other advantages of Blu Ray, though.

There's probably no other reason this couldn't fit on a DVD other than the devs were too lazy to compress.

Unless there's something else we don't know about...

Suspense!

[beavis4play]

why do people install 15,000$ surround sound systems in their homes? because they're into sound. i don't understand it either.

[thegreatone]

The article stated they stated they did compress.

[Master of Menace]

When you have to compress something you reduce it's quality. So Heavenly Swords sound quality should be incredible.

[Kholinar]

"When you have to compress something you reduce it's quality."

No... not necessarily. Lossless compression is used quite frequently and there's no degradation.

"So Heavenly Swords sound quality should be incredible."

Except that they said they used compression all over the place.

now if it's lossless then that's great. In the end we don't know. Because the interview was not specific about what was compressed and what wasn't or how it was compressed.

You go from compression (which the dev used) is lossy (which is not always true) to stating that the game must be high quality (because it takes up more space).

More space doesn't mean much. Office 2003 had negligible features added compared to Office 99, yet it was several hundred megabytes larger. Sometimes more space is just more bloat.

[heroman711]

well u both are idiots cuz blu ray helps a crap load fitting games on. mgs4 will definately need a blu ray unless u wanna play it on multiple disks. i heard that forza 2 needed more space to. 9 gigs wont do and thats a dual layered dvd. microsoft would have put hddvd in 360s if they had the chance but since they wanted to beat sony they had to make a huge choice and drop that idea

[God of Gaming]

Did they not shop this game originally to MS? And because of the developers history (Kung Fu CHaos) MS passed... THe game is going to be awesome but seriously... they went to MS first with it meaning they had the 360 in mind before MS passed and sony scored the exclusive..

Just seems odd to me

[techie]

Uh no. The specs of the 360 weren't even around. Plus...there is no evidence that Microsoft turned them down, there's more evidence that NT turned Microsoft down (either Microsoft wanted to buy them out, they didnt offer enough money, or wanted it to be on the Xbox).

Plus, that has nothing to do with how a dev uses advantages they were given. HS in its current state could not be on DVD. Simple as.

[WilliamRLBaker]

deep is right, in its "CURRENT FORM" its not doable on dvd, thats a fact.

But if they we're to build the game from the ground up using the same dev time they had for the ps3 version and actually used some form of compression on any thing *which is seems they didn't using hardly any at all* then it could be doable on dvd....maybe minus the every language...ect

edit: I did read that the ninja theory dev said they used compression all over, Well i have this to say, I've seen Heavenly sword and it looks no better then most games out on the 360 right now, If this amazingly large game that takes 6 hours to complete is so needful of a 25-50 gig blu ray disc why is that?

Bioshock a game vastly better looking then that game fits on an dvd9.
Oh and oblivion fit on a dvd9 and it had more audio files then this game ever had...and they used compression and the audio on that game sounds great....Basically put I bet they hardly use any compression at all on this game.

[vidoardes]

As far as I am aware, this was going to be an XBox game, not a 360 game (I could be wrong on that point).

And as for the remarks about being lazy, it has nothing to do with lazyness. Uncompressed sound is better quality than compressed sound. Just like uncompressed texutres are better than compressed textures. Just allows them to deliver better quality without worrying about space, nothing to do with being lazy.

[WilliamRLBaker]

Lost wrong, Uncompressed textures are not better then compressed, Compression is so advanced now that even a small ammount allows for no degradation.

Not only does compression make for smaller file sizes, consoles and computers are so powerful any more that the uncompression on the fly allows for faster loading...ect and because of the way of data compression any more *sound compression is vastly inferior to data compression* you rarely if ever see any degradation.

If compression was such a bad thing then they would use it rarely when in actually all most every game, and program uses it in some form or aother.

[vidoardes]

Do you have any idea how compression works? At All? No, I thought not. I never said compression was a bad thing, I said uncompressed is always better, which I'm afraid is an undeniable fact. It is used 'all over the shop' because yes, the differance is negligable, or because restrictions are made i.e availible space, but the preffered option, if availible is uncompressed data

[techie]

"As far as I am aware, this was going to be an XBox game, not a 360 game (I could be wrong on that point)."

You are very wrong. This was always a next gen project that they started early - they laughed at those who wanted it to be on the Xbox (Microsoft) with their concept videos and art blowing everyone away, not thinking it was possible even on next-gen.

They did a whole load of compression - but it's a balance of quality to space - they had to compromise to fit it on 25gigs - may have gone with dual layer, but made sacrifices. Cost/Benefit calculation. Spectacular sound, high quality cutscenes...take up space. The quality is undeniable I'm sure when you're playing it in your house with uncompressed 7.1 speakers.

[vidoardes]

Sorry, apoligies you are correct. Heavenly Sword started development on PC with a view to moving onto next generation platforms such as the Xbox 360 and PLAYSTATION 3. It had been stated that the title was in development since 2003 with footage of the original PC version published on TeamXbox.com in 2004. It had, at one time, been up and running on an early Xbox 360 prototype but this was abandoned in favour of the PLAYSTATION 3 when the title was picked up by SCEE.

So it wasn't envisaged with either console in mind, they picked the console after development began.

[techie]

Make no bones about it - Ninja Theory and Sony know what they are doing with compression - COST/BENEFIT

Deano (Ninja dev):"We use a mixture of compressed and uncompressed, but lots were compressed for the reasons people have stated.

Make no doubt, fitting all the audio in and not stuttering and being the the highest quality we could get wasn't easy, it was quite a problem even with the size of blu-ray.

At one point we seriously considered dual layer Blu-ray cos of disk space issues."

[Meus Renaissance]

Was asked if MS passed the exclusive rights to Heavenly Sword - and although he didn't directly say "yes/no", he pretty much confirmed that they did. I think that video is on Gamevideos Deep.

[techie]

Seen it. He looked pretty embarrassed actually. Not a reliable source.

[Anything but Cute]

think I'm going green pretty soon. That's right I'm leaving PS3 behind and buying an XBOX 360 instead.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

if you're serious, then there's no reason to leave the PS3 behind... just enjoy both

[ukilnme]

Don't give up on PS3 yet, but there is nothing wrong with having all consoles. Game On.

[Lumbo]

Whats the point of posting this piece of completely pointless information into every news post?

No one cares what you do, neither what console you buy or sell, honestly.

[sjappie]

Lorenzferus?

[resistance100]

This is like the 3rd time you have posted it now

[power091999]

Really man, how many times are you going to post the same exact sentence?

Are you looking for sympathy? Just buy a 360, and enjoy both instead of saying "whoa is me I am going green".

I think we got your point the first 2 times you posted it.

[Hayabusa 117]

What is the point now boasting about how many gigs your 6 hour game takes up? How many people were making fun of the Gears of War because it was only 12 hours long, and how Blu-Ray would offer such a huge advantage? I've still seen nothing from PS3 games that justifies 25 gig of storge, and what's worse, developers are already coming close to filling up single-layer Blu-Ray discs. There aren't even any CGI curscenesin Heavenly Sword. And this is why people pay £400 for the PS3.

[beavis4play]

funny, i'm still waiting for a first party exclusive that makes me want an xbox. i've played them on my buddys xbox and 360 but i'm not impressed. halo, gears,bioshock are all ok, but don't make me want the system. wanting a system and the first party games it has just comes down to preference. there is no absolut right or wrong. there are other games they (xbox) have i like but they are cross-platform. and what are you smoking? there are huge cinamatic cut-scenes that have been talked about and shown a lot. and i beat gears in 9 hours on normal difficulty and 10 on co-op.(we stopped some on that)and i haven't played HS so i don't know how long the game is. but i'll bet it's closer to 10 to 12 hrs.

[SlippyMadFrog]

I remember people saying Gears was short because of the lack of available space. Now a game comes out on blu-Ray that is more or less the same length as Gears of War and fills up a Blu-Ray disc. I guess by following that logic you can say a Blu-Ray disc is too small because the game is too short, which doesn't make sense.
The thing is they have 40 gigs (or whatever the capacity is of Blu-Ray) to mess around with. I'm sure they could have compressed that 10 gig audio to 1 gig if they realy wanted. They could have cut certain corners to save space and not take away from the experience of the game.
The thing is Sony fanboys have certain "weapons" they use against xbox fanboys and this is one of them. I will give credit where it is due and this game looks great BUT I'm still not convinced that Blu-Ray is needed.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Oh the game is FULL alright its full of cr@p.

So far the Xbox 360 has proven that DVD still has plenty of space for not only the very best in visuals, 5.1 audio and gameplay.

Beit that Blue Dragon another amazing game is on 3 discs is because it has a LOT of CGI movie sequences and took me like 10secs to take out the disc and swap it.

Also DVD is faster at loading than Blue Ray.

[CrazzyMan]

2x Blu-ray Drive (72Mbps(9MB/s))
Single Layer (2x CLV) - Constant Linear Velocity (Same speed across entire disk)
Double Layer - Couldn't find any data but no games have been released on a double layer yet.

Entire Blu-ray Disk is read at 9MB/s.

12x DVD-Rom Drive SL (9.25MB/S-15.85MB/s(AVG ~8x(10.57MB/s) DL (4.36MB/s-10.57MB/s(AVG ~6x(7.93MB/s)
SL(DVD-5) 12x Max (5-12x Full CAV) - Constant Angular Velocity (Speed Varies from edge to edge)
DL(DVD-9) 8x Max (3.3-8x Full CAV) - Constant Angular Velocity (Speed Varies from edge to edge)

SL DVD is 1.57MB/s > SL Blu-ray
DL DVD is 1.07MB/s < SL Blu-ray

Majority of 360 games are on DVD-9."

This quote is not the final word on the subject, but the thread should open your eyes a bit. On average, the PS3 is on par with the 360, and where DL DVDs are concerned, it's usually faster.

You can read the thread from which the above quote was taken here:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[SlippyMadFrog]

"SL DVD is 1.57MB/s > SL Blu-ray"
"no games have been released on a double layer yet."

Let me get this straight. You call him a stupid moron but then go ahead and actually confirm what he was saying???? Maybe I'm missing something?

*Edit
And you quoted from a forum post????

*Edit
@ Deep
What he posted did not justify calling Sayian a "Stupid Moron" since he said Xbox360 games are single layer DVD's and single layer DVD's are faster than blu-ray. I don't care who was wrong and who was right, if you call someone a "Stupid Moron" you better not sound like one yourself.

[techie]

No he said "DL DVD is 1.07MB/s < SL Blu-ray"

Most games are DL DVD's - if not all.

Plus read data speed from Blu-ray is the same accross the whole disc - it fluctuates on DVD's.

[CrazzyMan]

most x360 games are on DL dvd, which is slower MOST time, then blu-ray.
ok, Game LOGO may load faster on x360(because dvd has bigger speed on the beginning), but whole game will run faster on blu-ray.

[SlippyMadFrog]

"most x360 games are on DL dvd"
I didn't say Xbox games are on single layer, you said it -> "but no games have been released on a double layer yet." I was just quoting you.

"because dvd has bigger speed on the beginning"
What the hell does that mean? Explain why you think so.

"but whole game will run faster on blu-ray."
Speed of the drives only affects load times, not the whole game.

"Game LOGO may load faster on x360"
Explain why. (I know that DVD's have a variable read speed across the disk but that has no bearing on your statement)

Seriously Crazzyman, this is silly. You call someone a "stupid moron" yet your posts are full of holes. Grow up dude.

[felidae]

it's not possible on the 360.

[Anything but Cute]

That's great and all, but what does it amount to? What does it amount to if you have blu ray and extra disc space but the game isn't even as good as other games on DVD? like Bioshock, and Gears of War.

I'm just being real here, I'm just one opinion but both Bioshock and Gears were better recieved and will sell more than Heavenly Sword. So what did it amount to? Nothing.

[lebaneseprince1]

r u forgetting killzone 2 and mgs4 and many more not coming to the 360 and the 360 is notin special my friends got since launch and comes over my house to play the ps3

[lebaneseprince1]

im not saying the 360s not good i like gears of war but im just sayin why sell ur ps3

[sajj316]

If you have both, you won't need to pick and choose which side of the fanboy fence.

Go ahead and be green. A lot of people will (imo) still be 'green' with envy once those heavy hitters come in 08 for the PS3.

[Bazookajoe_83]

Hehe, u are right and wrong... Gears can be done on ps3, Bioshock can be done on ps3 and Heavenly sword can be done on 360. It´s realy more a choice of wich games u want, but for now i dont think the blu ray is a have to. But there are games in the shop that realy needs blu ray (Hd-dvd) to fit it on one disc.

[Itachi]

oh god

[macsto]

Here come the sony fanboys! Hitting disagree like crazy.

[DARK WITNESS]

....
really sad, well like i said, i will pass for now and get war hawk instead.

i don't really know what to make of this game now, but disappointed comes close enough.

[lebaneseprince1]

wtf is wrong wit the game theres notin that says the game is bad warhawk rocks though

[mandrake]

I have just about had it with this "only possible on blu-ray" crap. A game may yet come that will demonstrate the benefits of the extra storage capacity, but this also-ran is definitely not it. Did they fill the disk up? Doubtless. But the question is, with what? Sometimes more is better, but other times more is just... more. I'm not saying this game is no good, far from it. But tagging it as "only-possible-on-blu-ray " does nothing but raise more unreasonable expectations that this game is better off without.

[lebaneseprince1]

how bout mgs4 that cant be done on dvd

[lebaneseprince1]

actually 14 and im just sayin the truth

[beavis4play]

the bigger question coming soon is "what ISN'T possible on DVD9? that is the bigger problem for 360

[SlippyMadFrog]

"actually 14 and im just sayin the truth"

Oh man, suddenly everything makes sense.
Listen kid, saying MGS4 can't be done on the Xbox360 isn't the truth, it is an OPPINION (look up the difference between fact and oppinion).
Also there is a reason everyone thinks your young, because you argue like a kid. Just go get an Xbox360 and play some games, I'm sure you will stop with this none sense and start seeing the "truth" as what it realy is -> propaganda. PS3 = Xbox360, the games are the proof.

[Violater]

yet another pointless thread.

[540damn]

oops

[darx]

Sure it can't!

[Bazookajoe_83]

If u compressed it and took away some of the quality, with lower quality audio u could probably fit it on a dvd.

Edit to thegreatone: Touchee =)

[thegreatone]

but then you are compromising not fitting it all on a DVD.

[razer]

Look it up.

Compressed sound does mean it has to lose quality.

Why is it whenever I hear "only possible on Blu-ray" it's coming from a Sony exclusive developer?

I can't argue with the fact that more space is better however.

[thegreatone]

I think Sony got it right using Blu-ray. They were thinking ahead. I think in a few years games made specifically for the PS3 will be a lot better than Xbox.

[beavis4play]

unless devs will use multiple discs, the 360 won't be producing anything better than what comes out this year. not bad, but it doesn't allow for the games to grow and get even better.

[SlippyMadFrog]

"games made specifically for the PS3 will be a lot better than Xbox."
"the 360 won't be producing anything better than what comes out this year"

This is getting too much. Why is it that the Xbox360 is "at it's full potential" and "the PS3 isn't even at 10% of it's potential" with you fanboys? The problem is that you 2 are locked into a specific way of thinking and nothing that is going to happen is going to change that. The PS3 can produce games that looks the same as the Xbox360 games for 10 years and you 2 will STILL be saying the same stuff.

[Maddens Raiders]

screw the developers; it's what I say it is.

DVD9 forever! T_T

[Bloodmask]

I do prefer 360 but I found that funny.= + bubble for you my friend...

[SofaKingReetodded]

in even 5.1 on a decent surround system creates a sense of spatial dimension. SOmething I never heard coming out of the crapbox.

[sjappie]

Maybe you should come and play Bioshock at my house on my 360 and my 6.1 surround set. The sense of spatial(spacial?) dimension will blow you away. Bioshock has the best surround sound I've ever heard in a game.

[Zor]

Its crap(bioshock) compared to anything PS3 7.1 (though my freind has 7.2 lol, he has two subwoofers) game Ive heard on my freinds, not say the game is crap, its amazing, just the sound isnt the most amazing Ive heard

[ElementX]

I think there have been enough "you can't fit this on a DVD" articles.

[Keyser]

LOL!! Kiddin dude.

[sjappie]

Bioshock, for instance, is one of the best looking, highest rated games ever and it has the best audio I've ever heard in a game.
This was all done on a dvd-disc with room to spare and it is longer than HS.
Not that I want to say that Bluray doesn't have advantages, just at the moment, the highest rated games fit nicely on dvd.

[nix]

those who owns PS3 will enjoy this game.. the rest will continue cribbing about it! q:

[JokesOnYou]

"We have jam-packed the Blu-Ray disc absolutely full," declared Kristensen, as she confirmed rumours that the audio alone was allocated 10GB of space on the 25GB Blu-Ray discs."

nah, really? ha ha the game is 6hrs long, Sigma looks better, HS has some great cut scenes and overall it looks good but thats about it, the repetitive gameplay could have definitely used alot more work according to most of the reviews, yet this dev is bragging about 10gigs of audio space, bwahahaha! when I read that and think about the reviews I just cant help but laugh and wonder why sony devs think anybody cares about 10gigs of audio or I dont know maybe its just me but 10 more gigs used towards making a longer game would have been much better than something you wont even notice during the game= games either sound good= have good music thats appropriate for the atmosphere or they dont. I wonder if sony isnt pushing the devs to focus a little too much on touting blurays storage space, rather than letting them focus soley on delivering the best content, ha ha this is classic sony dev bs, please please Kristensen, tell us more why this game cant be done on DVD=

JOY

[Crazyglues]

Anything that takes up to 10gb's of space on just sound, must sound pretty amazing.... I mean seriously that is a lot of space for just sound. So either your sound is amazing or your management is terrible and you just wasted a lot of free space.

Here's hoping the game lives up to the hype. But from the reviews so far, I don't think it will.

[Bleem360]

thats what it is - spin. I'm surprised this announcement wasnt made by Alastair Campbell.

The same was said about R:FOM - The only way audio can take up 10gb is if it's in a RAW uncompressed format. If they compressed the audio, it would have only taken up around 15-20% of that total.

I'd be curious to know if the HS disk has any padding files on it too - as did RFOM.

[THUNDERMARE]

3 min of raw and uncompress sound (and I mean 12 channel at 1 GHz) can take anywhere from 2.5-3.5 Gb that is why we have to compress in the first place. Moreover, a dual Bru-Ray disk might not be able to contain a uncompress movie file (And I mean movie with 12 channel sound at 1 GHz and with uncompress picture at 60fps which may translate to about 280Gb of data) I believe someone had done the calculation somewhere in n4g. So what we have in HS is surely a compress form of audio the question is how many times and what format. Btw I learned about this from a CIS class so please done argue.

[Funky Town_TX]

The only thing that matters is if the game is good. IT can be 1 Tb ,but is it good. HS is good so who gives a sh8t how big it is. Bioshock is good so who cares how big it is? Tech specs don't make good games. Good ideas, and good developers make good games. EGM has said that the game was short. 10 to 12 hours is not short. I guess I will have to wait until I get a PS3 and rent HS.

[sajj316]

uncompressed 7.1 audio

next gen for Sony is next gen audio. What's wrong with that? I think the point behind this is that next gen audio is inclusive of next gen gaming. Sure, purest gamers will not care much about it. Does that make it unnecessary?

what justifies blue ray? Well ... Sony is making a statement with Heavenly Sword and Lair. Could they both be done on the 360 ... yes but with some corners cut.

[SuperSaiyan4]

With multiple discs? Blue Dragon is on 3 discs but its because of lots of CGI.

Bioshock lasts around 20hrs if you dont rush it and take your time and that has lots of gameplay and has some CGI at the end.

MGS4 can be done on the Xbox 360 Kojima himself said it is possible want me to find the quote??
The only thing is its easier slapping it on 1 disc like the blu-ray disc rather than multiple discs.

Sure there might be limiations to the disc type but there is by far NO limitation of the hardware on the Xbox 360 infact as far as games go it has soo far exceeded in what the PS3 can do.

All I have been reading since the PS3's launch is wait for next year, wait for next year, or wait until 2yrs time and then you will see what the PS3 can do.

Well people what would you rather have?

A £425 PS3 that you can keep for 2yrs until it proves itself?

Or a £250 Pro or £300 Elite and play all the awesome games the 360 has to offer along with lots of other things that it can do TODAY and tomorrow?

Even though I have both the PS3 looks good to look at and clean but for gaming as far as it stands at present it SUCKS immensly.

The XBOX has always been about the top level gaming and the 360 is proving just that it might be 2nd in the market because of the way the Wii has put itself out as a GAMES machine but isnt that what these products are for? Where is PS3? Number 3 the same place the Xbox 1 was...

How the tables turn, oh how they turn indeed.

If you are a gamer you will want games.

If you are a glorified fanbrat then you will be oblivious to reasons or facts and act very immature and slag everything off that isnt branded as the brand you like.

Damn I wonder if we have fanbabies of a brand of food...

Kellogs FTW!

[sajj316]

Do yourself a favor and buy HS, Lair, and Warhawk ... instead of ranting too much about how the games for the PS3 suck.

Not all PS3 owners are just gamers. They are tech geeks. They are audio/visual gurus.

[Keyser]

Some of us here do get into the technical sound aspects. I for one am. I know on a video game site you proably won't have too many but we follow the technology and the PS3 has the goods in that department.

If the dev's believe it couldn't have been done on dvd I believe him, obviously because it's ten gigs but I wish they wouldn't have said it out loud because it offends people.

It makes people feel that what they hear is inferior. Don't feel that way guys. The 360 supplys a very good experience and obviously you know that. There's definitely a difference but maybe not enough of a difference where many people on this site would care.

Anyway,...good times.

[Leg-End]

.

[DaEnforcer]

Carmack and PG4 dev said that too. Truth is, MS is forcing an outdated format on gamers.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Not all PS3 owners are just gamers. They are tech geeks. They are audio/visual gurus.

---------------------------

Partly the reason why I bought the PS3 because I really am into my hardware as well I love techy stuff but I am no audio/visual guru but am good on advice in some aspects or areas.

What I am trying to point out that the 360 and PS3 are supposed to be marketed as GAMES CONSOLES yet the PS3 is failing to be just that and instead seems to be going towards the audio and visual route and devs using the blu-ray disc for wasting space.

The games you mentioned are hardly top games, they are just games on their way to the PS3 and are no where near the potential most of the 360 games have been hyped to be like HALO 3, Bioshock, Mass Effect to name a few.

Which games have been the main story and page since day one? Or mostly? Xbox 360 games.

PS3 games have always been 2nd level.

Even games like UT3 which PS3 fans have been raving on about is definently a top title and if it had been an exclusive to the PS3 forever then yes that would have been up there for a game to get BUT given the fact that the PS3 controller is the worst pad in history for shooters and even racers I mean you just cant get the meaty feel of a shooter out of that pad or the firm gripness and feel of a racer.

If you're a REAL gamer you will know this to be true.

[Zor]

Seriously, do you even own a PS3, but what you say I doubt it, each controller has its own potentials, it seems all you care about is FPS, and SUPER COMPRESSED formats, HELLO PEOPLE, uncompressed is a GOOD thing, all I see here is people b!tching about OH NOES WHY COULDNT THEY COMPRESS, because the PS3 is meant to be something that doesnt need compression, its meant to stream everything in TRUE HD, not some upconvereted format, which is why the XBOX has more ram, to be able to do nothing but UPCONVERENT-DOWNCONVERET-UPCON VERET, and it wastes time cycles on the chip on this, thus why the PS3 wanted blu-ray, THEY DONT NEED TO COMPRESS=better graphics, better everything,

[Keyser]

You wanted Sony to have a narrow vision and just make the PS3 for games. That wasn't their vision for it all. The don't even call it a gaming system. They call it a system that plays games well.

Do you think that you paid $600 (or $500) just for a gaming system? You would pay $250 for just a gaming system. MS didn't make the 360 for just playing games (HDMI, HDDVD addon, IPTV...).

You may want to research your purchases more prior to spending cash so that you don't have inaccurate expectations.

[NewZealander]

I dont understand if this is the case why is it only 10 hours long? bioshock is on dvd 9 and its a huge game 20 hours, bet they did not even compress anything, and by the way ppl say that xbox360 cant handle any more than 4 to 6 enemies on screen at anyone time, then take a look at kameo and dead riseing.

[sjappie]

a launch game, it had lots and lots of Germans attacking you at the same time on screen.

[Firestorm]

This game was pitched to Microsoft before Sony, and M$ said no thanks.
After playing the demo and reading the reviews, I say they made a good call.

[eagle21]

33.1 Oh please! I bet they beg to differ! Halo was pitched to Sony, go to Wikipedia! I bet they beg to differ! LittleBigPlanet went through Nintendo, I bet they beg to differ!

[Firestorm]

the difference is, Heavenly Sword sucks.

[DJ]

anti-Playstation. Game developers are really starting to piss these guys off.

[sjappie]

10 GB of audio and the game is 7 hours long. Pfff, gtf out of here.

[DJ]

How the game was for you. You know, since you were able to beat it within 7 hours. Or were you just pulling that number out of thin air in some sad attempt to defame an amazing game and the platform it was designed for?

I for one am grateful that the developers over at Ninja Theory had the freedom to put in so much work for the audio within the game, as well as the visuals and gameplay. If 2 hour games like Devil May Cry can stand as one of the all-time greatest titles, why not anything lengthier than that? Perhaps you’d be more joyous if Heavenly Sword was shorter?

[Master of Menace]

Anyone who has seen this game knows it's amazing. The superior sound is a bonus. The fact that it will NEVER come out on 360 must really make some people jealous.

[sheng long]

I don't understand how someone can compare Bioshock's graphics to HS. If you're to compare both demos, they both show incredible detail. bioshock is a FPS darker, enclosed with less enemies on screen. Heavenly sword is 3rd person, and the total opposite. They're two totally different games and cannot be compared.
As far as compression goes, i'm against it and would rather a game take an entire BD than having it be compressed to the point where the audio/video takes a performance hit.

[Master of Menace]

I wonder how Bioshock would run if you crammed 1000 enemies into it. You could count the frame rate on one hand.

[Bathyj]

Look, you all know I like my Xbox, but I love my PS3.

BUT, I NEVER say PS3 is better than Xbox. Thats a personal preference and you cant tell someone that and more than you can tell them what their favourite colour or food is.

But the bottomline is 25GB/50GB is BETTER than 9GB if you're a dev. Thats just fact.

Why do Xbox fans get so defensive when BR is praised? Its a better format and has only just started showing why and if it wasn't (partially) developed and own by Sony then M$ would have used it themselves.

PS
6 hours my arse. I bet you no one sits down and finishes this game the first day and from what I've read its anywhere from 8-10-12 hours which is quite normal these days for an action game.

And BR doesn't mean an automatic 40 hour game anyway. Maybe the games BIG, not in length of time but in environments, amount of enemies, complex AI or a hundred other things they could use all that extra space on. The fact the only benefit you can think of for a bigger storage media is a longer play time shows a limited imagination and I'm glad game developement is left up to the devs, not fanboys. Apparently justifing BR would just mean dragging a game out to 50 hours for the sake of filling in disc space.

[Kyur4ThePain]

"Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble" :)

[Lex Luthor]

Classic Sony FUD.

[Goshyujin_Sama]

done on a DVD, its a true next-gen game!

[DaEnforcer]

May I quote some devs?

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD."

"While id maintained its typical stance that the title will ship "when it's done," the company did reveal that the PlayStation 3 edition of Rage will arrive on one Blu-ray disc, whereas the other three versions--PC, Mac, Xbox 360--will come on two DVDs with a potential Blu-ray distribution for PC and Mac."

There goes your compression, MS lied to you bigtime and you swallowed it like lil pussies hehe

[m9105826]

It'll fit on DVD. It just needs to be compressed... see?

[THUNDERMARE]

More than half of the comments posted were bashing dev for being lazy not to compress??? For me, if I'm going to complain, I'll complain about EA unable to deliver quality game for the PS3 for the sole reason of lazy to learn how to.

Beside, whether it fit on DVD9 we have to see clone of HS on 360 and compare (with current quality of cause) then we shouldnt argue about this. 360 fan just leave PS3 alone, if you are happy with DVD9 then good for you, PS3 fan got Blu-ray and we want to use it, enough said.

[m9105826]

wow... i thought n4g was bad for fanboys, then i clicked the link to CVG and all I can say is wow... now i know where xboys go to die. Fanboyism is bad from either side. And apparently the people there have only read one review of HS each, and it was a 6 out of 10. Apparently that doesn't get trumped but like 8 or 9 great ratings, but whatever.

[spammy_nooo]

saying devs are too lazy to compress files is just idiotic. I think it would be more difficult to balance quality and find the minimal compression you can use instead of just COMPRESS COMPRESS COMPRESS!!!!

whats really wrong with blu-ray? just stfu and stop complaining.

[Figboy]

all you fanboys ever do is *B*TCH! about *EVERYTHING!

does it honestly, truly tear you to shreds to learn that developers are using the technology offered with the PS3 to it's benefit.

if the 360 was using Blu Ray also, not a single one of you dissenters would be batting an eye at this information.

yes, Heavenly Sword, at it's current state, would *NOT be possible on a DVD9. that is simply a fact.

or are you able to put 10gigs of uncompressed and compressed audio on an 8.5 gig disc? can you defy the laws of mathmatics and make that happen, *WITHOUT fully compressing it?

of *COURSE, if you were to compress the audio and video assets, you'd be able to get this game onto a DVD9, but that is *NOT what the developers were wanting to do, so they didn't.

imagine, if you will, that you wanted to paint your house blue, then some jerkwad comes and says you can't. that'd be stifling, wouldn't it?

the same thing is applying to Ninja Theory. they wanted to go all out with this game, and do some things never before done because, well, why *NOT? anything less than 25 gigs would have been stifling to *THEM.

what i don't understand, is that more and more developers are expressing the confining qualities of DVD9.

Bioware: "we're having trouble fitting Mass Effect on a single DVD9"
Rockstar: "we're having trouble fitting GTAIV on a single DVD9"
Guerilla: "just this demo level takes up 2gigs"
Naughty Dog: "our E3 demo doesn't fit on a DVD9"

these are the people that sweat day in and day out, working with all of this hardware *EVERY FRICKING DAY, whereas what do *YOU all do? (me included) we sit at our keyboards, and *B*TCH about sh*t we truly know *NOTHING ABOUT.

do *YOU have a PS3 and 360 dev kit sitting in front of you? are *YOU working on a next gen title for both consoles, or maybe just one?

no? so how the flying f*ck can any of you say *SH*T about what can, and can't be done with this technology? because of a f*cking *WIKIPEDIA entry about how fast or slow a DVD9 is compared to Blu Ray?

the simple, undeniable fact, is developers *ARE talking about the limitations of DVD9.

the same things were being said about CD, and that was *BEFORE the sandbox genre even *EXISTED.

oh yeah, sandbox. forgot about that, did you?

the truth is, next generation sandbox games just *WON'T fit on a DVD9 unless they seriously, seriously reduce the audio and visual quality, and if they do that, well, what the fricking point of buying a $400-$500 high definition gaming console in the first place?

the multiple disc format absolutely *FALLS APART when the sandbox genre is involved. and in case you haven't noticed, about 80% of games released these days are sandbox.

this isn't about whether the PS3 and 360 can display the same amount of graphics on screen, but about how one developer, seeing the benefits of Blu Ray, has taken advantage of it.

i've played Bioshock; that game rocks on so many levels it hurts. the audio in that game is *FANTASTIC. imagine how much *BETTER it would have been if not compressed to fit on a DVD. you'd f*cking think you were *IN Rapture.

it is early days in Blu Ray land. there are developers, *cough*HideoKojima*cough*, who are already looking ahead, and pushing what this disc space can do.

they aren't being "lazy," they aren't being "sloppy coders," they are simply pushing against the boundaries of this new cage, and seeing what they do out of it. if it ultimately means a better gaming experience in the near future, then i'm all for it.

the 360 is doing rather well with DVD9, because it's still transition time.

don't you people remember *ANYTHING? early PS2 games were on *CDs! with only a few on DVD, and they barely *WARRANTED the use. by the end of the first year of the PS2's life, most games were on DVD's, barring a few exceptions that didn't need it at the time (ie, Ico). by the end of the PS2's lifecycle, you have games like God of War 2 filling up a DVD, and being on multiple discs.

it's simple logic, and *REASON, to suppose that, at some point in the next year (2008), a larger capacity disc, whether Blu Ray or HD DVD will be needed.

i mean, wouldn't it *PISS YOU OFF, to no end to find out, in 2008, that in order to play MGS4, you needed to buy the Blu Ray add on for the PS3, because Sony didn't include it in the *BEGINNING?

personally, i'm *GLAD, that my PS3 is *PREPARED for that eventuality. i'm covered either way. if games *DON'T use up 25 gigs, fine, no worries. and if games *DO use 25gigs or more, fine, no worries.

i'd rather have too much than too little. better safe than sorry, know what i mean?

sorry Rockstar, sorry Team Ninja, sorry Bioware, that you guys didn't have enough room to work with on a DVD. the games you've made are bad@ss regardless, but sorry for the inconvenience in the *FIRST PLACE.

you people seriously need to just *LEAVE PS3 related stories *ALONE. why can't you be glad that the console is getting some quality titles, regardless of if they use up a Blu Ray or not.

most of you people b*tching don't even *OWN a Playstation 3 *AT ALL. it's like you're all bitter, envious children. and if you aren't, then why *TRASH the console every chance you get? there's nothing wrong with it, and what it's offering, so leave it, and the people that actually *ENJOY it, alone. seriously. you guys f*cking *DISGUST me sometimes with your immaturity. and we're supposed to be *GAMERS? family?

sh*t. i disown you guys, if that's the case.

[Master of Menace]

Sony are justified in using Blu-ray. It's the logical solution for Next Gen gaming. 360 users are suffering from BDDD (Blu-ray Disc Deficit Disorder), and it makes them blind to that logic. That's why they hang around PS3 threads all day.

[tudors]

So i guess the grraphics and the gamplay must have took about 8 gigs then.

P.S m9105826 stick too your day job because you is no comedian.

[Master of Menace]

There are 25GB on a single layer Blu-ray, idiot! That leaves 15GB for the rest of the game. You are thinking of DVD, DOH! Actually, sorry, DVD only has 8.5GB.

[Kyur4ThePain]

Gameplay does not take up much disk space per se.
It is a concept, a design.

[m9105826]

lol, thanks for the advice. That was just the first think that popped into my head when I thought "Heavenly Sword" and "Atari-era game". Don't ask me why... Custers Revenge just sticks out. Open environments... lots of enemies attacking you... HS is really just a next gen Custers Revenge /sarcasm

[tudors]

Stuff like 'thats the reason they are in the PS3 thread',I enter all threads from the home page.

[Testo]

This game could be done on the 360. It would be done differently with maybe a small loss of audio quality but it could be done.

This is just fuel for flame wars and like people said, Sony trying to justify B-R. It's not needed YET. In 2 years maybe but not now.

But my question is would all you Xbots still complain about "choice" and Sony pushing B-R on us if it was the ONLY next-gen format???

[BIadestarX]

Yeah... ofcourse.... this is said for all PS3 games... I think it's a requirement if you want your game to pass certification.

Duhh.. PS3 games are designed to take space.. in order to brain wash people into thinking that blu-ray is needed.

First... most developers will not bother using any compression technology.

second... They include all CGI, Dialog, text, and other assets into a single disk. "10 gigabytes for sound"...

http://digg.com/gaming_news...

here let me do the math for you:

10 GB of sound FX for 11 different languages.. that means 1 language is only 0.9 GB.

This game also have 4 1/2 hours of cut scenes... if cut scenes contains text/signs/etc in multiple languages or CGI do not apply to certain region.. that means... some of these cut scenes are duplicated for at least some of the languages.

So... is the game impossible in a DVD9? Yes and No...
yes - because... I only need 1 language...
no - because this game was made knowing that they had that 25GB space... no need to optimize...

[abg428]

Ok all you guys that complain about a PS3 and don't even own one, JUST STFU!!

You ALL sound like little b*tches! I've never seen so many people hate on a system and its games!! You guys must all be under the age of 14 or something. Get a life!

[clarkdef]

And it still wouldnt fit on a DVD.

I have a huge THX certified stereo I am one of those people who think the sound is one the main priorities.

[harpua]

so funny how easily one can encroach upon the insecurities the x-kiddies have about their system.

[Real gamer 4 life]

I wonder how long will X box fanboys Defend Dvd format. I remember way back when the super Nintendo was dominating the gaming market, i remember when they didn't want to go to the Cd format. What happened Sony prove them wrong. So what happening here is the same thing that happened back then. Developers will start making games that simply wont fit on the Dvd format. The ps3 does not have even a year out, so that why these blind fanboys cant see it. A new generation of game is starting, look at Killzone, i wanna hear a blind x box fanboy tell me that Killzone is possible on to fit on the Dvd format. and Killzone is just the begging, of the hundreds of games that wont be possible to fit on the Dvd format.

[Kholinar]

I'm a Nintendo fan.

You're really talking about different things. Sure, it could happen, but there's a difference between 64mb<700mb vs. 9GB<25GB... 2 1/2 to 1 is a lot different than 10 to 1. Sure, some developers who have made the choice because they like the architecture or Sony's PR will take advantage of the space, but that's just after the fact.

It's just like when PC hard drives started getting larger and cd-roms started being used. Devs wrote programs larger just because they no longer had to write clean, compact code. Luckily the web has turned people back to compact coding. If devs abuse this space, believe me, in the long run it won't be a good thing.

[Bloodmask]

that means only 15 gigs for gameplay. Sad if you ask me And I'm sure that 15 gigs could have been compressed to fit on DVD-9. Once again more Sony marketing BS.

How come it it only Sony's first and second party games that can only be done on Bluray?? Oh I forgot bc Sony said so. Just like next gen starts when Sony says it does...

Sony is laughing at you all the way to the HD Bluray bank.

Remember we must all work more hours to by PS3......

[DJ]

Try playing ANY of your favorite titles without the volume on, and the experience becomes bland. The fact that Heavenly Sword has hours of dynamic music and Gigabytes worth of Audio FX work is simply amazing. I'm sure they won't have to compress so much of the audio once they have access to Dual-Layer BD-ROMs.

[harpua]

"If 10 gigs is for sound that means only 15 gigs for gameplay. Sad if you ask me"

translation: i'm really running out of ways to bash the PS3.

[kn]

I don't have my PS3 yet but I do have a 360 so I guess that makes me a bot. Of course they are going to say they can't do it on DVD because it is their game, exclusive on Blu-ray, right?

That said, I don't see 10Gigs as really that much audio, though. I have an awful lot of MP3 music that are extended mixes. I generally rip them at 192KBPS minimum to keep the sound quality high. In order to preserve the high quality of surround sound it wouldn't take long to create 10 gigs of sound files -- not long at all... Since I haven't played the game, I can't say, but I would suspect that with 10gis there is some seriously high quality cinematic music going on in the game along with sound effects, voice acting, etc.

[Real gamer 4 life]

So is it possible to fit killzone in a Dvd format? No right. Sony is setting a new standard for games. look at the visual in killzone, it blows any game away graphically. Blueray allows sony to take gaming to the next level, is that some of you guys cant see it yet because the playstation just came out. And it is not only sony first and second developers, that are going to make game that only could be done in blue ray. Because rockstart right now is working on a game that can only be done on the playstation system.

[Z501]

This game could'nt be done on DVD,bottom line.People say Sigma looks better,well,durrr!It's a PS3 exclusive 60fps 1080p(only the PS3 has this game)but Sigma is still repetitive.One of the perks of BD is you don't have to compress.Space is your friend.

[ApocalypseShadow]

lets head back a little to super nintendo and sega days:

stree fighter 2
https://www.xbox-modchips.c...

why was street fighter 2 released on a bigger cartridge?surely there was enough room on regular cartridges right?i'll use an xbox site for some proof:

max size of carts were 32mb.but custom decoders pushed it to 48mb.devs obviously couldn't do the type of games or ports on snes without changing the rules.SF2,star ocean,street fighter alpha,etc.,just wouldn't look the same or sound the same using that 32 mb cart.

phantasy star(ms)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

seems this game used 4 mega bits(512kb) of rom.10 times the size of a regular sega master system game(32kb)

why would sega need more space?would phantasy star have existed without more space?and it would seem,every PS game needed more space.which is why they costed more to buy.

vr racing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

seems this game need an extra chip to create that 3d effect.amazing how these devs needed more space or more memory or power.

lastly,lets come ahead some to ps1 days...........

FFVII

i wonder why this game wasn't on cartridge?

seems square didn't want to be limited by cart space for the vision they had for their game.or maybe,sony paid square off to expand their game beyond a cart size.that's what a 360 fanboy would say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

they even spent around 45 million to make it at the time.and you think killzone is expensive to make.couldn't FFVII fit all on one cartridge with compression techniques?surely all that cd sound would pump through those cartridges right?and those great backgroud textures.how big would that cart have been?

fanboys can try to downplay bluray all they want.they can try to downplay HS all they want.but those who believe sony's vision of:COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT.NOT JUST VIDEO GAMES......

COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM.which is what they have been saying from the beginning with playstation 1.they wanted more and they provided it with cd,dvd and now BLURAY.

if your prefered system doesn't have a future thinking company behind it,well.....live with it.but the rest of us gamers believe that in order to release your true vision,your imagination,you need more space.

and i'm glad sony gives devs more space if they want it.

..................mag lev super train...................

[Ashira]

Compress the audio (don't use lossless or uncompressed!), and then use... oh, how about 2-3 DVD-9? 9+9+9=27 (or 9+9=18). So there you have it. Even less than FF9 back in those days.
They're lazy and unwilling--that's all. It's certainly possible to fit it on DVDs. And 15 hours is laughable for game length. Especially considering the time it's been in development.

[JokesOnYou]

will never see the irony that makes 360 fans laugh when almost every review has said the game is short (6 or 7 hrs according to IGN who played it) and REPETITIVE, and its even been describe as a button masher that gets boring, ha ha I guess the great cinematics were put in to wake you up, but seriously why are you sony kids surprised that gamers who read as much gaming info as we all do wouldnt think to himself "wtf? are these dev's serious? their big time hype to be AAA exclusive game its turning out to be just a medicore game, and these sony devs are still talking about how their game has 10gigs of audio= can you not see the irony in that statement?= the game isnt the AAA sony promised= who gives a damm about 10gigs of audio, and stop the BS because Bio sounds great, nobody cares if a "videogame sound" sound is compressed or not, ha ha sonykids who are you fooling as if you're actually going to be playin this game while saying "damm you could hear the difference in that cutscene since the audio wasn't compressed as much like a 360 or Wii game. ha ha yeah right= we comment and laugh because sony devs comments are funny, so stop crying about it, when micro says something stupid you kids have something to say too right?=

JOY

[ApocalypseShadow]

we can see that.

but if you want devs to keep limiting themselves to fit "BIGGER" games on next gen consoles that don't allow it,it just won't happen.even with compression techniques.

madden will continue to sound the same.
level sizes will never get bigger.
game content will have to be downloaded because it wouldn't fit.
less quality sound will be on disc.

but again:

25-50gig>8.5gig

even if devs never use it,it's a good thing to have.

....................mag lev super train..................

[PimpHandHappy]

ok here i am after 5 hours of warhawk and needing to eat. I put on some food and chill. Let me see whats going on on that flame site! What HS cant be done on HD-DVD? Really!

hahahahahahaaha

isnt that a game devolper who said that!!! lol

wow 360ppl are pissed! How dare they say a PS3 game cant be done on my all mighty 360!!!! I have seen a olnine game like Warhawk on a 360? That game can sure as hell fit onto a dvd! No doubt! Lets see them port that over and see if the game is the same! Odds say ur 360 cant handle all that goes on! Maybe they will try but this is just the start my 360suckers! There will be plenty of games this time next year that your 360 cant handle!

this time next year the 360 might still have the install base over the PS3 but the Wii will have doubled your 360 by then!

I see someone say Bio Shock again! lol

Man i hope Halo and Mass Effect kickbutt cuz if they dont then all you had was one orginal game in 2 years! Ok 2 with Gears

[SlippyMadFrog]

"this time next year the 360 might still have the install base over the PS3 but the Wii will have doubled your 360 by then!"
What does that say about "your" PS3?

"Odds say ur 360 cant handle all that goes on"
Well actually, odds say the game will look better on the Xbox360 since more multiplatform games looks better on the Xbox360.

"I see someone say Bio Shock again! lol"
Bioshock is so far the highest rated next-gen game out, pitty you won't be playing it on the PS3.

"ok here i am after 5 hours of warhawk and needing to eat"
Excercise much?

"I have seen a olnine game like Warhawk on a 360"
You did? "Dry land, I have seen it!" - Waterworld /sarcasm

[tomfoolery]

There were games that couldn't be done on ps2 from the first XBOX,right?
It didn't matter.......ps2 outsold it.
Now apply that to this gen. 360,will outsell ps3. Case closed!
This article is Sonyfanboy crap,which I have now rendered irrelevant.

Suck it easy.