Kojima wants 50GB Blu-Ray disk for MGS4

This enticing piece of news might spur on the current debate over the correct format for the Next Gen Consoles. Recently Hideo Kojima said that "Blu-Ray is too small for Metal Gear Solid 4."

[Grown Folks Talk]

4.5 gigs of game.>: ) http://www.funnyjunk.com/pa...

[Maldread]

that video was very funny hehe. The games are difinatly not all about the cutscenes, even though there was a fair amount of them in MGS2- the moast disapointing one of the 3 games too.

For MGS4, can`t wait to see what Kojima somes up with, i`m sure he can fill thoses gigs with a great game.

[InMyOpinion]

MGS2 was way better than Snake Eater. The end of Sons of liberty was magnificent. I wish Snake Eater had a story that strong. Plus the controls and camera are f@cked up.

[Maldread]

I think MGS3 was better, because it was about Snake`s father and not Raiden. It had a better story and made good additions to the gameplay in the new CQC and camo systems, which felt a bit strange at first, but nothing hard to get after some play. The Subsistance version has a better camera system ( havn`t tryed it myself though)

And the ending of MGS3 is one of the best I`ve seen and was a lot better than the one in MGS2.

[Raist]

MGS cutscenes use the ingame engine so it doesn't eat that much space. CGI do.

And AFAIK he never said that he wanted 50GB BRD for his game, he just said that a 20GB can be filled fast enough. I think he was just answering a question about new storage media.

[Grown Folks Talk]

i don't recall seeing your posts come up as spam/offensive.

[Raist]

I noticed it a long time ago and I still wonder why lol

[PS3 Ultimate]

MGS4 will use Blu Ray's storage and if its over 30 GBs then its not coming to the 360. ONLY on, the PLAYSTATION 3!

[kingboy]

well. kojima the boss has spoken.His cut scenes are like movies.so sick

[Hey Zeus]

Yes i'll be open minded Halo sucks, so 4 all the MGS haters, i don't think Halo is 2 great either, at least MGS 4 is a much rarer game than Halo, halo has been done better by let's see many of the games that appeared after it.

[Grown Folks Talk]

that's the point. the assumption is everyone that owns an xbox thinks halo is the greatest thing to grace the face of the earth. my favorite xbox game is splinter cell: chaos theory. halo is fun, but to me it's not the end all be all. i'm looking forward to mass effect, bioshock, graw 2, splinter cell 5, alan wake, and many others besides halo 3. i don't like metal gear, you do. it's good we all don't like the same things, otherwise there would only be 1 game with a million sequals. generic 1, generic 2, generic 3, and so on. i don't care if you like mgs, enjoy it. doesn't mean i have to like it.

[InMyOpinion]

Are you also german like Achira and Juevani? If so "german" is european for retard...

[OutpostCommand]

Im not to keen on Halo myself-
played it. Was...good...but it didnt have a 'wow' factor to me.

I personally think MGS is the best thing to ever happen to games, but like the above poster said, we all have different views.

However, I thought MGS2 and MGS3 were the two best games I ever played. 50GB = A whole lot of more MGS action

[Monchichi025]

Your opinion on Halo is worth SH!T!!! The Halo franchise is now the hottest selling franchise in all videogames because MILLIONS of gamers agree that it's the best thing since sliced bread! The videogame journalist also agree so... guess you're player hating opinion is worthless.

Don't be mad that the best thing Sony has to counter MicroSoft is the extremely tired Metal Gear Franchise.

[OutpostCommand]

Well, your opinion is worth 'SH!T' to me too.

1.My opinion is just as valid as is yours-
I am free to redicule it, and am free to agree with it. Stop acting like a idiot.

2."The Video Game Journalist..." o rly ?
For goodness sake, atleast give me a better arguement than a single journalist agreeing. Also, give me evidence of him agreeing.

3. Your opinion on hating is worthless too then, just as is mine.

4.Yeah yeah-
"Extremely tired"
LOL ! I am so sure you have never played any of the MGS franchise, I would be willing to be money on it. If anything, IMO the franchise is only begining. Its a pity its stopping at MGS4. I can think of many other games which have been around for much longer and could do with being finished.

5.What are you-
10 years old ?
FFS, I didnt even call Halo "SH!T", "F@CK", or anything like that.
You see people ? This is the IQ of the average Xbox fanboy which constantly flames you on these forums.
And even if I did call Halo "SH!T", im entitled to do so.

[Monchichi025]

Considering how I had both the PS and PS2 I did pick upMetal Gear because of all the Hype. The first one sucked with all those VR missions and the second one was just lame with all that dumb hiding stuff.

As for the video game journalist; I'm talking about the whole industry. Even the Japanese videogame magazine Fugiste (or whatever it's called) gave Halo a 9 out of 10.

[zonetrooper5]

I'm sorry but why does he need more than 20GB of storage, will this really be full oif gameplay or is it just CGI and a hell of alot of cutscences.

[FFVIIFan]

Kojima already said he wasn't concered about 1080p graphics that would eat up too much memory. Now I expect there to be plenty of cutscenes, but if he wants more space I'm sure there's more gameplay to go with it. I'm looking forward to this.

[DJ]

Do not, I repeat, do NOT think for one second that he needs a 50GB Blu-ray disc for Pre-rendered cutscenes. Hideo Kojima has never used CG, and never will, including this project. He prefers to keep everything in-game quality in order to fully immerse his players.

Animation, Sound (voice acting, fx, music), 3D models, textures (color, reflection, specular, normal, etc), and scripting are going to take up the bulk of that space. He seems very concerned about creating an immersive world where anything can happen, and it's a good thing that Sony adopted Blu-ray for this platform, otherwise developers like Kojima would've been held back quite a bit.

[OutpostCommand]

Precisely !

This game would just not fit onto a DVD. It just wouldnt happen-
you see,
Blu-Ray is already showing its benefits !

Also, I notice people are throwing the word MGS like its just another game. Its more than a game,
its more of a experience.
Some of the people here use MGS like its just another Gundam or just another Burnout. I assure, its far more than any of those games will ever be. The MGS series of games are perfection.

[zonetrooper5]

I'm just still not conviced at why he thinks that 20GB is not enough and can't he use something called compression to make the files smaller while attaining the same quality of sound, gameplay etc.

[tackleb0x]

The game wont have 50gb of gameplay. If you think the game wouldnt fit on a dvd9 you're an idiot.

Having a console that doesnt have a hardware resolution scaler means, they will need alot more space to have the video's at different resolutions.

What everyone should be asking. If the graphics are so great, why dont they just render the cutscenes?

Compression? With the limited RAM of the ps3 it will be alot harder to decompress on the fly. I just hope they take the time to do away with loading screens on it, but sadly on the ps3, its not something that the console is able to easily perform.

[DJ]

PS3: 256 MB of GDDR3 RAM @ 700Mhz.
256 MB of XDR RAM @ 3.2Ghz

Each memory pool is on a dedicated bandwidth line of 22~24 GB/s (46GB/s total) in addition to 35GB/s of bandwidth between the CPU and GPU. Doesn't look very limited to me, especially since it's twice the memory bandwidth of the 360.

Sure this game could fit on a DVD-9, but it wouldn't be the same game. It'd be smaller, have edges cut off, compromises to quality, etc. I seriously can't imagine Resistance being cut down by 50% just to fit on a DVD, let alone other big PS3 titles.

"If the graphics are so great, why dont they just render the cutscenes?" -You just contradicted yourself by stating "If the in-game graphics are so great, how come they don't throw away their million-dollar graphics engine and spend millions of dollars doing pre-rendered CG instead?"

[OutpostCommand]

I wouldnt go to as far to call myself a idiot,
however I dont think it would think it would fit onto a DVD9.
Im sure that 50GB can be compressed somewhat (Unless its a compressed figure alread) to around 35GB if its really worked on, but dont expect miracles.
50GB to around 6-7GB is totally unreasonable.
The PS3 has as much RAM as the 360-
I dont understand what you mean by "Limited".
It has 256MB of GDDR3 and 256MB of XDR
And if anything, the Cell should excell at tasks such as decompression.
EDIT_1: Totally agree with DJ up there.
EDIT_2: I dont have many more posts, so I have to recycle.
You down there, Nodoze, for goodness sake, what are you on about ?
"10 to 1 its uncompressed audio for multiple languages"
BS !
Also, Snake Eater was one of the best games I ever played.
Calling it 'g@y' is not very mature.
If you understand the story, take it onboard, and recognise its similarities to Real Life, then you will probably enjoy it 50% more.
Then there is the gameplay, which is absolutely fantastic.
Control over character = 10/10
Music = 10/10. Some of the best music I heard in a game (Albeit I wasnt too keen on the intro music. MGS2s was superior ( http://media.putfile.com/Me... ))
Weapons = Fanastic. 9/10. They did their homework
Guards = 15/10. As per standard operating procedure, the guards were fantasticly created. Try playing the game on European Extreme, and survive a ALERT.
I could go on, but the point is it was one of, if not the best game I ever played.

EDIT_3: Nodoze, stop throwing around cliches around. Its MGS2 that had a lot of cut scenes (Which were incredibly enjoyable BTW).
MGS3 didnt have too many cut scenes (Which when they appeared, were once again, incredibly enjoyable).
Now im absolutely sure you have never played MGS3. Get out of here.

[hardwood2001]

-DJ- you seem to not know that "96mb" of ram is dedicated only for the OS program for the ps3. Which leaves the ps3 with only "416mb" of usable ram for the games themselves.

While the Xbox 360 has "32mb" dedicated to their OS program, leaving "480mb" of usable ram for their games. When you do the math then you'll realize that the Xbox 360 has "64mb" of more usable ram than the ps3.

If you think about that then you would also realize that the original Xbox had only "64mb" of ram altogether, and it consistently crush the ps2 in terms of... Well everything.

[Nodoze]

it appears that fanboys have adopted the 'larger disc = better game' mentality. I can't wait for 200GB games they will be sooo much better....cough yeah right.

10 to 1 most of that space is storing uncompressed audio for multiple languages, nothing more.

[Nodoze]

I notice people are throwing the word MGS like its just another game. Its more than a game,
its more of a experience.

Is that because most of the time you are sitting back watching cut scenes?

So tell me, how was the experience that is snake biter...err eater. I can tell you, it looked mighty g@y from this gamers perspective.

[Boink]

I call total BS, there is no way it would take more, unless they are the worst bunch of programmers in the world.

they said the same thing with RFOM, and that turned out to be bunk as well, take out the junk and both games would fit just fine on 1 dvd, maybe 2 at the most.

and if he does not use "pre-rendered, CG" then what the hell have the trailers been, and why do they look so incredibly better than the ingame footage that's been released? CUT-SCENE, PRE RENDERED.
he wants lots of it, get over it.

[gnothe1]

all this was is an attempt to get peoples mind off the FACT that MGS4 IS coming to the xbox360!! if he say things like, I WANT 50 GIGS OF DISC SPACE knowing the xbox doesn't have a next gen disc could kinda put that rumor to rest, that's all it is!!

quick thought!! remember back when Square Enix said they didnt want sony to be the overall winner, they didnt want Ms to be the overall loser, an they didnt want sony to be the overall loser either so there gonna support all the consoles equally!! well that means that they want all the systems to sell great, which in return helps them make money!! WELL... for them right now looking at the Ps3 current situation things ain't looking real good!! an they know that there game weights alot in the success of the Playstation brand, an buy announcing it this early that MGS4 would indeed be coming to xbox360 would really hurt sony an they know it!! an all the sony fans know it as well they just wont admit it!!!

[PS3alltheway]

all MGS series never use CG all are ingame .
man i can't wait for this game,

Bring on the Socom sony i got over 100 members on my clan . all of them will buy PS3

[FirstknighT]

Haha, SOCOM is a joke!

Btw, My cuzin (who works for Sony) plays socom and his team lost in the finals in the championships to some team in Asia.

[PS3alltheway]

are u s2pid just shut up face the facts Kojima-san
one of the best DEV out there don't do u think hes lying.

did u read the news hes already making 360 games give him credit bro.

[Raist]

Kojima never ever used pre rendered stuff in his games. He simply hates it, because he has to wait for the rendering to be done. And since he likes tweaking the camera angles, lighting and so on, he only uses real time stuff

Check this out if you still don't believe it
http://www.kotaku.com/gamin...

[gnothe1]

all I did was voice my opinion an you jump out a call me stupid!!that goes to show you how STUPID YOU ARE!! an I see you really dont understand the business.developers covering up the truth to protect there investments happen all the time!! but like I said your JUST TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND!! an as far as im concerned dont respond back to me with these attacks especially if I didnt direct them to you!!because you guys talk plenty of crap behind these CPU's!!

[Microsoft Master]

MGS4 will be a great game, whether it is 50GB, 25GB or below 9GB. If you don't like the MG series then fine, but i and countless other gamers think they are great, so at least let us get all excited. Yes, if you read my name i am a 360 fanboy but i do like some Playstation games and MGS4 will be the best PS3 game.

[PS3alltheway]

MGS seires one of the beest game ever created kojima-san. PS3-san 360-san Wii-san okidoki

[PS3alltheway]

peace out ima play fite nite online
Thnks Sony Free online Rocks

[FirstknighT]

to bad you cant see your friends playing Resistance or any other game! Oh well...thats's what you get with a cheap service!

[dantesparda]

Damn Knight how pathetic are you!? You think that seeing who's playing what is worth $50? Damn you're pathetic. I didnt care about that sh!t before when i used to play my PC games online, nor did i care for it when i got it on xbox live. I dont care for it. Im not one of these little b!tches that needs to know what everybody is doing in order to have a good time. And i have many people on my friends list, i think its maxed out.

[FirstknighT]

It makes me laugh when I hear people complain about spending $39.99 for a whole year of excellent online play; yet they put up $700 for a ps3 and accessories on one day! A ps3 that hasn't fullfilled the hype! A ps3 that sits in store shelves everywhere! So funny the ps3 duds are! :)

I like knowing if I'm playing Fight Night and I see all my friends playing Gears of War. I'll stop and go ahead and pop in my GOW disc and it's gametime!!! But you dont have that luxury! Xbox Live is years beyond the ps3 network! Sony dropped the ball again!

[dantesparda]

You're a idiot! "i dont have that luxury"? I have Xbox live you moron! "Us PS3 dudes"? I aint a PS3 dude, you clown, i dont have a PS3. I own a 360, doink! I've had it since day one Nov 22nd 2005, stayed out over night for it. So stop making assumptions you dumb fvck! Andd $39.99 is not the MS price (the official price), those motherfvckas want $49.99, thats what they charge my credit card if i dont cancel it before they do. So stop the bullsh!t alright

[FFVIIFan]

Larger discs do not equal better games. But MGS has proven to be a quality series. Gamers know this game will be good just as everyone knows Halo 3 will be good. Secondly, if you have such a hard time excepting MGS4 as a good game because Kojima wants a 50GB disc, then what do you think about Blue Dragon using 3 DVDs? Do more discs mean a better game?

[DJ]

I'm gonna quote you on that one.

[BOOSTIN]

sorry but after playing MGS2 i couldnt play another MGS game. the first MGS was great, after that the series when down the crapper, and now in MGS 4 there are mechs that moo like COWS?? are you KIDDING ME???? i will never understand asians.

[FeralPhoenix]

personally I don't have a problem excepting MGS4 will be a good game on BD whether its 50GB or 10...I've always said MGS is one of my favorites....and again BD is fine, but as you said yourself: "Larger discs do not equal better games." -So if that is true then MGS4 on 2 or 3 DVD's would be just as good, right?.....which is why I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your Blue Dragon comments: "then what do you think about Blue Dragon using 3 DVDs? Do more discs mean a better game?" -The answer is I think if a dev's need "more space" to make sure that "all" of his vision for a game is included he should definitely use multiple discs, instead of cutting things, and it seems that the sales of Blue Dragon in Japan show that if a game is really good people will buy no matter how many discs its on.

[Marriot VP]

well it'll be nice to see how this game plays out compared to how it looked at around E3 in 2006.

http://www.wii60.com/videog...

sorry that's the only ingame photo I have, I know there's others.

[FFVIIFan]

I was making that comment in response to Nodoze. I might have misunderstood what he was saying, but I thought he was saying that it was a stupid decision making the game on 50GB. I used the Blue Dragon comment to say there is no difference between one larger disc or several smaller ones.

[FeralPhoenix]

I understand now....I agree, good post.

[djbassay2k5]

yeah 50GB. compressed or not there are so many different theories on they choose a larger medium

multiple languages

no need for multiple units as all games will have all the languages for the terrtories its released in/ i.e. one production to manage/more effiecent/

longer gameplay

even quiet possibly a faster release date due to no need for compressing. C'mon compressing 40-50GB worth of file is going to take no less than a month

the mind can only speculate.

[SPAWN]

Cut scenes? I wanna play, not watch a movie! For that, I have HD-DVD! This story is lame as hell. Go over to the hardware of the year award for consoles. Comment on that ps3 fangirls lol!

[ronscrote]

TOSSER

[Juevani]

Blue Ray and capasity is importent devs want new things always lets face it dvds is not enough for games anymore a year from now devs want to put all the things they want on a game and lets just say they will avoid the 360 since its not enough space to make the game perfect, excatly like (MGS4,FF13,DMC4) devs probably wish to realese them on every platform but they just cant cus of the capasity *and the power ;)* so with time you'll see more games go exclusive cus of that issue, so ms have to do something before its too late (push every xbox owner to buy a hd dvd driver and realese the next version of the console with a hd dvd built in) which will cus another problem, wanna know what is it? the cost.. face it ms made a mistake using dvd player (which is ages old, I mean comn consoles from last generation used dvd) Sony is smart they didnt make that move with no reason, and believe me we will see more news of that type ''dev that and dev this need more space for this game) and nobody wants to release a game with 6 or 5 dvds that just, hmmm.... well you know what I mean ''lame'' like the one who said lets use a dvds for the 360.

[SPAWN]

You Illiterate bastard!

[ronscrote]

If it's true that all the cutscenes are rendered in realtime, there can be no excuse for needing a 50gig disk. The way i see it, there can be only two options - Either Kojima is using pre-rendered cutscenes or he is not using any compression for the games resources. Heres an example of just how wasteful is it not to use compression: I've just been looking at a 1200x833 24-bit uncompressed bitmap image that i have stored on my PC and it was 1.9MB. I then converted the bitmap to JPEG format, leaving resolution and color-depth untouched. The resultant JPEG image was 133KB. Thats a ratio of about 14:1. Now consider a game that contains thousands of high-res textures and high-poly models and it's not surprising that it's easy to fill a 50GB disk. IMHO Kojima is just playing the marketing game for Sony. He wants to hope that he isn't forced to change his mind on a 360 version of MGS4 in the future, otherwise he's going to have a tough time explaining to the PS3 fans how he managed to cram a game he previously claimed required 50GB onto a DVD9.

[DJ]

There's scripting, animation, sound, etc. I do graphics/animation, and high quality animation with dozens of things going on at once really eats up space. His games have always had a significant focus on sound design, so you can bet his team went all out.

He's saying he needs a 50GB Blu-ray disc for MGS4. This doesn't mean that the game is going to be exactly 50GB. A more realistic estimate would be in the neighborhood of 30~40GB, which is still more than what a single-layer disc can handle.

Face it. Blu-ray's necessary, and great developers are taking advantage of it.

[SimmoUK]

If your still denying it your just going to look even more like an idiot as more confirmation comes in, probably from square enix will be next. These are not inhouse Sony dev's so don't try and put out any BS. Gears was a good game and i've got it but far to short and that was because Microsoft knew it would be far to embarrasing to go multi-disc like blue dragon, good GPU but no space to make the most of it and CELL is far more powerful when used correctly... Micrsoft's spce in this games industry is dwindling away and I bet there's already to execs thinking that, as games use more space it's only a matter of time...

THEY ARE NOT WASTING SPACE EVERYTHING KOJAMI HAS EVER DONE IS FROM INGAME ATRIBUTES, THEY ARE AN INDEPENDENT COMPANY THEY ARE NOT PLAYING ANY SONY MARKETING GAMES AS THEY HAVE ALSO CRITICISED SONY WHEN NEEDED IN THE PAST. FACT IS THEY NEED THE SPACE SO ANYONE VIEWING THIS WEBSITE DON'T LISTEN TO ANY XBOX FANS IN A YEARS TIME PEOPLE WILL LOOK BACK AND LAFF AT THEM, THIS IS COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO PLANS ON OWNING ALL 3 CONSOLES WITH A 360 ALREADY AT HOME...

[ronscrote]

Sure, I don't deny that the extra space is useful and will be used with some games, Just not MGS4. Kojima has already said that he isn't using prerendered video. So, if you have all the answers, tell me what is he using the space for?

Maybe i will be proved wrong, only time will tell. But i think it's you that looks like the idiot for insulting people that happen not to agree with everything you say. Tell me, what makes you the expert?

[SimmoUK]

Quite simply because it's a huge game for example the up and coming Heavenly Sword game has already been stated from the dev's to be at around 60hours playing time...

For anyone who needs reminding what an outstanding game MGS4 is going to be get over to GameTrailers.com and view the videos that are running ingame attributes this game is going to be an absolute masterpiece...

[Zinswin]

This comment was made specifically to endorse Blu-Ray and Sony and I believe it's an outright lie.

In the meantime, this game holds zero interest for me. I played the Metal Gear game that was available on the XBox (can't remember the exact title) and was extremely disappointed. A fat man on rollerskates is a boss? Give me a break. The story was a mess of a joke and held no cohesion.

After fondly remembering the NES Metal Gear and how obsessed I was with it, I was very sad when I sold my copy of the "improved" Metal Gear. Did I mention the horrible controls? Maybe it was better designed for the PS2, but with the XBox controller, the game felt sloppy on the controls.

Anyhow, I digress. Shame on the game designer for lying and losing integrity while cuddling up to the still warm corpse of the PlayStation brand...

[SimmoUK]

Then your an idiot no one is lieing to you, they are a 3rd party developer, what does it take for you to believe them do you need him to run down the road with "We need the space" tattoed on his arse. MGS4 is an absolute masterpiece you only have to watch the videos from E3 and TGS to see that, This is the kind of game that could decide the console wars, especially after realising that it's going to be more of an FPS this time. It's simple history says if he didn't meen it he wouldn't of said it that's the way Kojami is and has always been...

[Jrocks_4_ever]

waste your bubbles on such a hater. We know that MGS4 an many other games will bury M$ and any other console alive. Only time is holding sony back from yet another victory.

Peace

[ronscrote]

I don't deny that MGS4 has the potential to be a great game, only that it requires so much space. I'm still waiting for you to tell me how Kojima plans on using all that space. DJ made the point of patronising me about scripting, animation and audio. Well, I think everyone here knows how much MP3 audio can fit onto a standard DVD5. Even with multi-channel audio sampled at a high bitrate your looking at tens of hours. And regardless of what DJ says, I know from personal experience that animation tracks require very little space. I have sequenced long and complex animations myself in 3D Studio MAX and Kaydara FiLMBOX and the space requirements are negligible. So i'm still left wondering... HOW IS KOJIMA GOING TO USE THE SPACE?

[Jrocks_4_ever]

I know that he has a pretty good reason he is asking for more space. The man knows what he is doing so stomp worry you will find out when it is released....

[kingboy]

well don`t ask us.Call up konami`s hotline for details since you`re very interested on how your games are being made.I bet if u told some developer in the mid 90`s games were gonna move from 89mb to 4 6 9 GBs ,he might have called you crazy

[Athlon]

I think the reason a lot of MS fanboys are angry Kojima's comment about a bigger blu-ray disk is simple. His comment is in a sense reiterating that there is a less and lesser chance that MGS4 will come to 360. Let's say that MGS4 comes in at 32gigs. That would require at least 4 DVDs for the 360 port.

[Ggame]

The one dual layer Blu-ray disc = 4.5 pieces of dual layer DVD.
OH! 5 DVDs for game for Xbox360. It's impossible. Haha..

[Marty8370]

DJ,Raist,Athlon,Athlon,SimmoUK I agree with u all.

[Grown Folks Talk]

will be the greatest game of all times.

[GaMr-]

See what happens when people think ahead. Points to sony for looking down the road as oppose to the competition *cough cough Microsoft cough* who was just trying to beat sony to the punch. hmmm is anyone already noticing a trend. Gears of War "phenominal game" 7 whommping hours of gameplay maybe 8 if you really suck. Lost planet I havent finished it but i have friends who have and they told me it was a short ride as well. Mind you none of us are hardcore gamers. Just play for fun on the weekends or on business trips. I think instead of a HD-DVD add on microsoft should release a 6 Disc Changer. that way for later titles 2 maybe 3 years in. You wont have to keep track of all those pesky disks. just load em all in. lol

BTW Spawn your the biggest M$ Nut Sack Rider I have ever seen. Do they pay you?

[Flash]

My first post!
I like the 6 disk changer comment for 360! I love my 360, but i think gears was a short game adding different difficulty levels to "fill it out" sucks a bit! I can't comment on Lost Planet as I've not played the full game. Although Oblivion lasted me around 150 hours to get all the achievements and that was on 1 disk!

[Ggame]

Heah! Microsoft fanboy.
Do you khow? The HD-DVD adds-on for your Xbox360 was sold about 92,000 units by the end of 2006. Certainly, the PlayStation 3 which built-in Blu-ray drive was sold about 687,300 units by the end of 2006. Both launched in mid-November together.
HD-DVDs are LOST!!!! Ha Ha...

PS.Thanks for NPD

[Microsoft Master]

Heah! Sony Fanboy.
Do you know? The PS3 Blu-Ray drive is internal and if consumers want the PS3 they HAVE NO OTHER OPTION but to get Blu-Ray along with the package. Now, am i going to fast for you yet? The 360 HD-DVD drive is External. Internal, External, 2 opposite words. Isn't that funny? It just goes to show the IQ of some fanboys. Obviously, the HD-DVD drive only having sold 92,000 units just indicates how few people care or want a HD Drive WHEN GIVEN THE CHOICE.

[Maddens Raiders]

Cell = PS3 = Blu-Ray = More Space = Bigger Games = Better experience. All of this with no add-ons and a AAA Blu-ray player to boot. Often the best ideas are overlooked first. I think SNE's decision to go big Blu-ray is looking pretty brilliant these days. Bigger is better. MGS4 will sell 10's of thousands of PS3's alone. Thanks Hideo.

[FirstknighT]

Than explain to me why the ps3 is sitting in store shelves everywhere while the ps2 and 360 outsold it by a far margin. Reason? Cuz kids and Gamers dont care about blue ray! Nobody but the hardcore fanboys will put up $700 for a ps3 and accessories. A waste of money. Not to mention games look and play better on the 360!With the 360 atleast I have a choice to buy an HD addon, but I dont want one! I'm glad they didn't stick me with an additional $200 for the 360.

The ps3 you dont have that choice. Your stuck paying for something that I or alot of other people dont want! Sony tried to fit the kitchen sink in the ps3 and it failed them! The ps3 is a mess! Only the sony duds invested in it.

[FKN Unbelievable]

This reek of a Pure Promotional gimmick by Sonee.

Metal Gear Solid 1 for the Ps1 was an example of gaming greatness.

Metal solid 2 was and example of cashing in on a new franchise and Making it user friendly by making all of the mission the same as part 1 just easier.

Metal gear Solid 3 was Decent better than 2 but not as good as 1. Oddly enough he seem to be more technically advance in the 70's than the Future. Anyway every trailer MGS4 is prerendered on Ps2 hardware.

Oh well This game can be 3 DVDs or 2 Blu-Ray discs and it still wont change the gameplay at all that just means i'll be enjoying a game even longer and stretching my legs after a while. Might i remind Ya'll By Lost planet selling a Million copies in one day the game has changed for sonee MGS4 Will be on Xbox 360.

Xbox 360, Get down or Lay down!

[Raist]

I won't go into the whole argument "bigger space means better games" because it's not necessarily true. Hell, i still have fun with games that take like 2MB.

But, the point is that if you have a look at the video games history, this storage increase has always happened, and it was necessary to improve games : graphics, sound, etc.
A snes game ? max 10MB
Then the PS1 / saturn era : 800MB
Then, the PS2 / xbox era : 9GB

Just an example. The last crash bandicoot on the PS1 was about 200MB. Jak & Daxter 2 on the PS2 was 4GB. That's a freaking 20 times increase.

I don't think there were so much discussions going on at those different time points of VG evolution.
Mostly because everyone (except nintendo) did it.
Now that Sony follows the same "rule" again, but alone, everyone says that more space isn't needed. Because NOW most games fit in a DVD9. But what will happen in one year ?
Many PS2 games used CD media when the console launched. Do you see any CD based game on the PS2 now ? nope.

[dbug360]

well done Great post!

[achira]

seems that a great game is coming to the ps3! cant wait for it, i will buy it the first day it will be realised. mgs is one of the best games! oh some ppl say halo sold well, yes it sold well, but mgs sold better, halo isnt even on the top 20s.

[FirstknighT]

Halo 2 made $125 million on its first day! Halo 2 would eclipse even the biggest Hollywood openings! For comparison: Spiderman the movie made $114 million in 3 days! Halo 2 was covered by news stations around the world. Halo 2 broke records. MGS never has and never will touch this record!

[GaMr-]

Beat that Halo horse. beat it to death. Then when that one gets tired Beat 600 dollar price tag,then the Betamax horse. "Fanboy tactics are getting repetitive". No matter how much you hate the truth. You can't stop the future. Games are going to get bigger. Fact. Sony is in a good position going with a true "next gen" media format. Fact. Does this mean Microsoft is going to fail. No of course not. But you may see a big switch in third party support favor as to the fact. Its the New era no one wants to make 4 + discs games anymore. Thats a thing of the past. That they barely tolerated last gen. Halo is a great Game. MGS is a great game. Two very good franchises. and big hitters for there respective company's. Learn it Live it Love it. "Jump in" but if you want More Media space Jump out and "Play B3yond". "Kaz i want all checks payable to......" lol just kidding.

[TheXgamerLive]

To try and beef up sonys bad rep. With sony ps3's limited readily avail. memory and it's handicapped cell, yes handicapped in it's design flow of video gaming needs it's taking up alot of memory to "TRY" to smooth the game as it's now very jittery when played and still bottlenecks so bad so no, no 50 anything is needed for this game but do know that all MGS4 games add hrs. of mindless and useless video/CGI for the story and as in MGS2, some of it you couldn't skip through, that irritated me so bad when playing the game, I got up and ordered a pizza and it was delivered 30 min. later and the video was still running. So he may be doing this to try to show Blu rays importance, when we know it's not needed.
Just like Blue Dragon, it's on 3 DVD disks, it's filled with huge video as well as the game is huge but w/o all the video it could of been put on 1 disk, which would of been fine with me, I don't play games to watch a movie.
A huge huge game is MASS EFFECT, and it's only on 1 disk, It's really up to the developer and what there wanting to do for basically whatever reason, but please dont put a movies worth of video on a game .....please!!

Future next next gen. system will obviously need HD-DVD to run there larger more complexed design games, just not right now, as in R-FOM,all that Hype was BS.

[TheXgamerLive]

NO, I repeat, No dev. comes out 2 to 3 yrs, before a games released and says that snake or there main character will die and that's it for him, none will do that, so my guess is at the end of this game you've either number 1 had the wool pulled over your eyes and snake will contiunue on as an old old Fuc*er or number 2 snake will become mostly or all cybernetic. Either way snake will live, Hideo is pulling a joke on you all.

[AudioRage]

to be honest i think snakeater was annoying. Snakeater was like San Andreas to me, too drawn out long and jus including things that jus damaged the game. I loved mgs1 and 2, i have 1 on my psp and im no hater. But i jus think that recently they just have not impressed as much. There seems to be a wish to have somethin new and exciting like in MGS:portable ops they have the recruiting soldiers, then there is the acid franchise. But i jus feel that it was the original formula that was the best, yet id still prefer new games to try new things.

[InMyOpinion]

Maybe they need all that space to make the game work online lol!

[nice_cuppa]

publishers and developers dont give a crap about the media...
they make a game and put it out if it takes 20 gig blu ray, 50 gig blue ray or 3 dvd9's,,,...
the only people who care are fat, lasy, losers who moan at having to change a disc after 10 or so hours gameplay.......

have you people ever watched a dvd or vhs movie ?
you have to change them after about 90 minutes...
i bet that must piss you off.
the only thing i care about is the end result...
ie...
is it good gameplay.
are the graphics and sound good quality.
do i like the games direction.
how long the single or co-op game lasts.
is there multiplayer.

look at it this way.
rfom was about 15 gig ish.....
the single player lasted 12 hours.
multi-player is good but not great.
too me that is worth the money but doesnt show why it was 3 times the size of gow....which looks and layes better.

[gnothe1]

would we all not agree that developers build games for the lower denomination(except for 1st party developers)it was a proven fact that the PS2 was weaker than the xbox1, the xbox1 had the HDD standard.but most all 3rd party games were built with the PS2 in mind(no HDD an weaker specs)because for one the PS2 had a killer fan base!!for the poster that said developers are going to drop the x360 because of no next-gen disc, I think your way off.there in NO DEVELOPER an I mean NO DEVELOPER that would pass up a chance of putting there game on a system that has a chance of selling over 750k copies weather its xbox or PS3. an right now its just not possible with the PS3 because there just not that many systems out there for them kinda game sale numbers!!

[solid snake uc]

i think kojima will complete mgs4 then he make mgs movie story

[sevenout]

RFOM and MGS4 do not need 20GB or 50GB, that is a bunch of crap. If Half Life 2, totally blows away RFOM in scale and scope and graphics (and gameplay), which was released over two years ago, was released on dvd, then there is no reason why RFOM, which pales in comparison, needs 20GB.

MGS4 showed mostly cinematics which are not indicative of gameplay. The actual gameplay footage looks very similar to Ghost Recon 2 on the 360 and is far from groundbreaking, or requiring 20GB, let alone 50GB.

The PS3's biggest deficiency, which was touched on by some previous posts, some of which did not understand the problem, is the PS3's Paltry 256mb of video ram. This is where the 360 has a great advantage in that it's 512mb of ram can be used by the whole system and be re-allocated on the fly. Sony's operating system (ironically) hogs up 60mb of the non-video ram, so developers are left with 196mb of general purpose ram.

Also the groundbreaking game, Crysis, which has arguably the best graphics and physics in a game and only uses a dvd9.

[death monk]

I used to always play PC games that were on multiple discs and did that ruin my experience? Hell no. Wing Commander was always at least 4 discs. Games like Half Life 2 and Unreal Tournament were multiple discs, granted it was for the install and then you need one disc to play. Final Fantasy VII was 3 discs and that too was a wonderful experience. This multiple disc thing is being played off as if every five minutes you will need to change a disc or something when we all know that there will be at least 12 hours of gameplay before a disc swap is required. While having a larger medium for games is a convenience, it's not a selling point for me.

[Anerythristic26]

The best post on this entire subject goes to post # 35. Kojima is flat out lying. I am glad to see a couple of people have common sense. This entire article is Kojima kissing Sonys behind , more lies from Sony and thier stooges.

[DJ]

"Why should developers make titles for the PS3 when there are so few installed units?":

There was a time when the Xbox 360 only had 500,000 installed units, but developers started projects like Mass Effect, Lost Planet, and Gears of War anyway. Developers design games that will convince consumers to buy that particular system, especially when you're this early into these systems' life cycles.

Three years down the road, it will be a different story because developers will see how their investments turned out in the long run, and then focus on the number one platform. To ignore Sony and Nintendo's extremely popular platforms would be foolhardy. It's important to think ahead, and that's exactly what developers are doing on these new platforms.
----------------------------- -----------

"Why do we need Blu-ray? Games like Oblivion already fit on one DVD. And multiple discs were fine in the PS1 era with Final Fantasy":

Alright, first count up how many PS1 titles came on multiple CDs....oh yeah, it was basically just the Final Fantasy series and about four other RPGs. Oh, and Gran Turismo 2. Disc-swapping was fine back then, but that was two generations ago.

Was Final Fantasy 12 on 4 discs? 8 discs? Did Gran Turismo come on multiple discs? No, it was on one DVD because Sony was brave enough and intelligent enough to think ahead for the future. Nintendo's decision to use mini-DVDs on the Gamecube actually cost it a lot of titles, and the Dreamcast had nowhere near as much storage capacity as the PS2.

Now, with this generation, not only are textures 8~16 times larger, we actually have 8 different types of textures, in addition to gradient algorithms and whatnot. Some of these textures can't even be compressed very much because it leads to noticeable artifacts in-game. On top of that, we have much higher quality audio. Say what you will about MP3, but audio engineers know that MP3 quality sucks unless you hit 256/320 KBPS, which takes up a lot of space (4 MB per minute of sound). Add millions of more polygons, significantly more models, animation, rigging, scripting, and you can see where all this space is going.

Games are getting exponentially larger. Yes, DVDs are useable for next-generation gaming, but very limiting. It's actually very hard for developers to make multi-disc games because game size/content changes constantly, and publishers hate spending money on Quality Assurance and manufacturing so many discs.

There are also a lot of game genre's that cannot be played on multiple discs -> FPS, Free-roaming (Grand Theft Auto), Sports, and basically anything that allows a player to switch between multiple modes of play.

Kojima wants 50 GB of space for his game. To defame him simply because he's taking advantage of the hardware he was given is immature and unwarranted.
----------------------------- ----------
PS1: Crash Bandicoot 3 was 236MB.
PS2: Jak 3 was 4.17 GB, and that was with compression techniques.
PS3: Can you really imagine Naughty Dog making a proper free-roaming title with only twice the amount of space as last time? Hell no.

The truth is that even developers such as Bethesda of Oblivion fame have been hoping for more disc space for a long, long time. PC games such as Unreal Tournament 07 are already hitting 15 GB, and the only reason the PC version gets away with it is because the game is installed completely on the hard drive. The discs are a one-time use. The reason they can put it on the PS3 without any problems is because Blu-ray has a 50-gig storage limit; they don't have to worry about swapping discs when you want a different level to play on, or a different gameplay mode.

Want to switch discs every time you move to a different part of a city? Every time you choose the wrong football team? Every time you choose a certain level in a racing game?

Thought not. Games can work on DVD, but their potential can only be realized on Blu-ray. I can guarentee that the next Xbox Console will have to adopt Blu-ray to keep up with what Sony's developers are pulling off.

Many of you ask "Why should we have more space for games?", and I ask you "Why limit yourselves when the potential is already there?"
----------------------------- --
Quick Note: I still can't believe that people who hate Sony can still get off lying about the Playstation 3's specs, and falsify information about its operating system and the way its CPU and GPU function.

I could stand here writing out all the specs of Sony's system, but luckily I don't have to. Just take one look at Motorstorm, Lair, F1 Championship, Heavenly Sword, Metal Gear, or Final Fantasy and it's obvious that their banter means absolutely nothing. Developers are proving that the PS3 is the number one system to develop on, and are flocking towards the platform with everything from new IPs to games that were originally on the Xbox 360.

Falsified numbers are meaningless when contrasted against tangible, undeniable proof of a system's power.

[TheXgamerLive]

You can skip around what everyones knows and try to make it seem that it's 50 gigs or nothing but it's just not true. If for some reason ( large/long video files) requires a larger storage devive then a second DVD is used.

ps3 fans were and are being b*tch slapped by sony to buy a blu ray player for there (sony) benefit, and for that reason alone. To fill up a game with useless content is a waste. I would never waste my console just to play movies on as sony wants you to do, I'd buy the HD-DVD device if I want that, and I don't. DVD will be around for another 5 years easy.

End of story.

[Shadow Flare]

There have always been great games throughout history. Space Invaders is a great game. Sonic is a great game. Final Fantasy 7 is a great game. But these games are great for different reasons. Space Invaders uses the tiniest amount of memory required to play it whereas MGS4 apparently needs up to 50GB. However space invaders is great because it is simple and fun. The natural progression for games is to have more depth and interesting gameplay, so sonic had vivid colour, fast pace and interesting levels. As media sizes increased, the games too increased in depth. Final Fantasy 7 was a huge game with a fantastic story and deep gameplay. This kind of game would never be possible in the days of space invaders. And as time went on games like Burnout 3 were created and then games like motorstorm.

Point in case, some people claim that games on xbox 360 are great and so therefore there is no need to use a larger media size. Fine. So by that logic, why don't we all just still play space invaders? Its a great game. Why didn't game companies and developers stop increasing disc sizes when they made GTA: San Andreas? Its a great game, people loved it. Its good enough.

The reason disc sizes increase is because its natural progression. Its what the game industry does. Its how games get better, or raise the bar of 'greatness'. If this didn't happen, we would still be playing games in the 2D era. Yet the 360 chose DVD and therefore has hindered itself, like it or not. Microsoft pushes the 360 as an HD console. Guess what. For a HD console, its really best to use a HD disc format. Microsoft chose DVD, really for money issues, the fact DVD is established and also the fact that HD-DVD wasn't a finalised format when the 360 launched. It launched too earlier. Had it launched with the PS3 and Wii, it would have lost no ground, it would have an HDMI 1.3 port to go with its upscaler chip, it could have used HD-DVD for its games, it would have launched with a AAA title and they could have designed their console to be more reliable. Microsoft claims their 360 is better then the ps3, so it would have been an easy win right?

The 360 using multiple discs also isn't the answer. I know some games in the past used multiple discs. But some games, you just can't. Imagine FOR EXAMPLE polyphony digital wanted to create Gran Turismo 5 to include every car ever built, every track ever designed and for them to look and feel like real-life and to play in 1080p 60fps. Fit on a dvd? It would be a nightmare. Imagine your playing the game and you wanna buy a car. The game might go, "The car you have selected is from a Japanese manufacturer. Please insert disc 3". "Please insert disc 2 for Trial Mountain". There is also only so much city you can fit on 1 dvd. I sometimes wonder what kind of game GTA5 would be had it still been a PS3 exclusive. I'd imagine if GTA5 were created the way it should have been and it was on dvd, you'd be driving along and it would suddenly go, "You've entered West City. Enter disc 2." "You've entered South City. Enter disc 4."

The 360 has needlessly held itself back. Blu-ray isn't needed for all games but for the best and deepest, then blu-ray is needed. Don't believe me? What's this article about then. Sony would have allowed developers to have their say in what they want in a next-gen disc format, and they obviously wanted more space to have the freedom to develop how they want. HD consoles need HD discs for the biggest games. How many big games have there been for 360? 1, Gears of War. How many quality AAA titles are on the horizon for PS3? Loads. And im glad Kojima is taking advantage of the ps3

[Funky Town_TX]

When Sony talked about the PS4 not have a physical media that killed it for me. Fact is gears looks better than any game on any system period. So by your statements Sony made the PS3 for GT5. If it is taking them 3 years to make GT5 and 3 1/2 years to make MGS4 then the PS4 will be out by the time a new MGS and GT hit. The times of Sony killer sequels on one generation could be over. I READ THAT OBLIVION ON THE PS3 WILL USE MORE ROOM THAN THE 360 VERSION BECAUSE THE DEV WILL HAVE TO DUPLICATE DATA THE COMP FOR THE SLOW READ SPEED OF THE BLU-RAY. They wanted the data in more places for quick access. More space is always good if it is used. I just rather not pay for it unless it is used 100% of the time. I will not buy a car with 10x more horsepower than a cheaper counterpart if I will not be using it all the time. I hope the PS3 games are bigger and better bcause I want better games, but I will not be paying for it. When the PS3 drop to $400 and under I will jump in. If Blu-ray is 100% needed then I should not be paying for it. Truth is Sony is using the PS3 to push BR and with the PS3 BR would have died a long time ago. Why is it that every dev interview for the PS3 had the dev talking about the hardware, the game play got little coverage (LAIR).

If disc size was the main part of good games then the PSP would not be getting it's a$$ kicked by the DS.

[CAPS LOCK]

shadow flare and dj are correct, they both raise valid points and make sense.

Xgamer you dont know anything your just a fanboy whos trying to justify his purchase, DVD is last gen media, we are in the HD era now so roll in the HD drives and discs.

[TheMART]

Guys one thing

Parties that are laying in bed with Sony will ofcourse state that their BR is needed. To do them a favour. To sell the hardware, to sell the games.

As long as games are still about 5 GB at the moment max I don't care about it.

Last gen, most games began under 2 GB at the beginning of their life cycle.

They ended being between 3 and 4 GB average.

So they increased about 50% to 100% maximum. Only one XBOX 1 game exceeded that which I bought, Rally Sport Challenge 2 with about 6 GB's.

Now. This gen they started with a SL-DVD @ 4 GB
If we take the average growth of 50% to max. 100% for about all games, that will make

6 GB to max a DL-DVD. And very few games that might need 2 or 3 DL-DVD's.

Period. That's it. If games suddenly get from 4 GB to 20, 30 or 50 GB's then it's lame programming or overextensive use of CGI video material added. You want an example of lame programming? Compare these:

Doom III and Terminator III for the original XBOX.

Doom III was about 3 GB and a great game
Terminator III s*cked and was somewere close to 7 GB

Take it or leave it, but that's it!

[CAPS LOCK]

more and more companies are beginning to show their games in hd, last gen there where no hd consoles and games, the 360 is developers extreme compression techniques so they can put a full game on the 360 and most of those games dont play for long only about 8 hours, games like gears and prey and graw. so if they are filling up DVDs in the begining of the consoles life imagine what would happen later, even u said games increased 50% to 100%.

so i do think using a dvd for a hd console is not a good idea. its ok for the wii cause it wont have high graphics and wont be in hd.

[calderra]

Nevermind the fact that FPS/TPS ALWAYS have short storylines, and that games like Oblivion have hundreds of hours of gameplay and tons of voice dialogue, etc in their games.

We'll take a few rate instances of games that actually require over 9GB of space (totaling: Resistance and MGS4 thus far by all accounts) and claim that's "how things are" in the industry.

[OutpostCommand]

Bravo DJ ! (Post 60)
Excellent post. I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it.
Xgamer-
I can swiftly assure you, im being far from "B*tch slapped".
Im, believe it or not, actually HAPPY that Sony included a Blu-Ray played. Can you not accept for one second that I may well be actually not complaining about the fact that the PS3 has a lot more potential than the 360 2 years down the line ? Does your mind refuse to grasp this ?
If anyone is getting "B*tch slapped" then its MS fanboys like you.
Sony granted us the privalige of a console which is somewhat future proof. MS however, to get ahead decided to limit its gamers, and go with the old DVD.
I dont think you understand,
just like in the console industry, media storage changes over time.
What was acceptable 5 years ago no longer is.
You will NOT watch a HD movie on a DVD. Its just plainly impossible to fit onto a DVD.
This is why HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were developed.
Same principle with consoles-
Try fitting a HD game onto a CD.
IMPOSSIBLE.
Try fitting a HD game onto a DVD.
Just about possible, but its already rapidly running into 2 DVDs.
This is why a new standard must be developed.
Its just common sense-
however, you somehow refuse to grasp this.
Shadow Flare (Post 61)-
Excellent post. Stole the words out of my mouth.
Mart-
seriously, you never give in, do you ?
...
I personally dont understand why 360 fanboys keep rubbishing this article-
Deny it as much as you may, the PS3 is proving itself.

EDIT_1: 67, you down there, try fixing your English-
its rather difficult to understand your pointless fanboyish rant at this rate.

[FKN Unbelievable]

"The 360 using multiple discs also isn't the answer. I know some games in the past used multiple discs. But some games, you just can't. Imagine FOR EXAMPLE polyphony digital wanted to create Gran Turismo 5 to include every car ever built, every track ever designed and for them to look and feel like real-life and to play in 1080p 60fps. Fit on a dvd? It would be a nightmare. Imagine your playing the game and you wanna buy a car. The game might go, "The car you have selected is from a Japanese manufacturer. Please insert disc 3". "Please insert disc 2 for Trial Mountain". There is also only so much city you can fit on 1 dvd. I sometimes wonder what kind of game GTA5 would be had it still been a PS3 exclusive. I'd imagine if GTA5 were created the way it should have been and it was on dvd, you'd be driving along and it would suddenly go, "You've entered West City. Enter disc 2." "You've entered South City. Enter disc 4."
"
The Polyphonics could make every car ever made still on DVD9 Through Microtransactions. That What HDD's is for so that downloadable content has somewhere to stay right? No loading times remember? Also Don't believe that sh1t about writing a game in 1080p cause coding take up memory on a disc, thats absurd.it use system memory something PS3 don't have a lot of.

"The 360 has needlessly held itself back. Blu-ray isn't needed for all games but for the best and deepest, then blu-ray is needed. Don't believe me? What's this article about then. Sony would have allowed developers to have their say in what they want in a next-gen disc format, and they obviously wanted more space to have the freedom to develop how they want. HD consoles need HD discs for the biggest games. How many big games have there been for 360? 1, Gears of War. How many quality AAA titles are on the horizon for PS3? Loads. And im glad Kojima is taking advantage of the ps3 "

So let me gues they will have tons of Exclusives right? Wrong! they Lose though quicker than Star Jones loses weight.Did'nt i just tell you that Lost planet Selling or Shipping 1 Million copies just changed the whole game industry? If New IP get Love on 360 will will new franchise start that will become exclusives? (DUH)
Sonee will be Making some kinda of money off of 3,4,5,6,13's to video games. Look at lost planet a Demo release over the summer when it was hot as hell. The hype Builded cause i was amped then when it come out in January a cold month it does it numbers. You Clowns Sonee are Pathetic Really believing that Blu-Ray is the way to go cause you lazy ass fools don't wanna change a disc. How many Discs is Crackdown? How large is the City again? oh O.K. i though so. So sonee fanboy Keep Lying to yourself while you wait to see pics of actual gameplay of MGS4 which Kojima did'nt even start yet. US Gamers are already enjoying AAA titles Amongst one another. 720p still looks Beautiful to someone thats not concerned about HD but rather seeing the game itself.

"The reason disc sizes increase is because its natural progression. Its what the game industry does. Its how games get better, or raise the bar of 'greatness'. If this didn't happen, we would still be playing games in the 2D era. Yet the 360 chose DVD and therefore has hindered itself, like it or not. Microsoft pushes the 360 as an HD console. Guess what. For a HD console, its really best to use a HD disc format. Microsoft chose DVD, really for money issues, the fact DVD is established and also the fact that HD-DVD wasn't a finalised format when the 360 launched. It launched too earlier. Had it launched with the PS3 and Wii, it would have lost no ground, it would have an HDMI 1.3 port to go with its upscaler chip, it could have used HD-DVD for its games, it would have launched with a AAA title and they could have designed their console to be more reliable. Microsoft claims their 360 is better then the ps3, so it would have been an easy win right? "
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sect... Yeah so do it really matter now?
Like i said before DVD's was never in trouble Sonee is. Their Compression techniques Suck. Remember when RFOM was a so called 22gigs and now it 15Gigs? Where did the gigs Go? What where the rest used on? Could'nt be much if gameplay time is the same as Gears and it doe'snt have Good Physics (Remember Resistance: Fall of Chair? i Thought so).

Xbox 360, Get down or Lay Down.

[TheMART]

Rendering in HD doesn't mean a grow in data that big, you should know that.

Putting in CGI stuff makes the data grow. You're not smart enough if you think HD games need a HD disc format.

If you add the difference in resolution let's say from 480p to 720p (which almost all games will be in or are in) that doesn't let 4 GB grow to 30 GB either. I would even state that 4 GB 480p would only let it grow marginally. I bet it would even not hit the 5 GB by that.

Sorry guy, you're way, way off with that comment

[sevenout]

With HD media drives come the "HD" media drive pricetag. A price that is not agreeable with mostly everyone (complaining) about the PS3 price.

Truth be told, both the PS3 and the 360 are "interim" game systems and the PS3 forced the adoption of the Blu-Ray drive via the PS3 to drive a market that does not exist now, and maybe never will truly come to fruition--The High Definition 'dvd' home video market.

Of course Sony and Konami (Sony's last stalwart supporter) say that the Blu-Ray was "Really" chosen to support next-gen games, but that is baloney. Sony wants desperately it's Blu-Ray format to succeed, at any cost, even sacrificing it's game division.

The reason why I say that Sony's priority for the Blu-Ray is movies, not games, goes back to the fact that they only included 256mb of Video Ram in the PS3. Every video card I have owned in the past six years has had at least 512mb of Ram and whereas 512mb USED to be considered overkill, now it's almost not enough for newest PC games.

Developers gave microsoft a wishlist and the developers all chose more available ram over greater media storage. This was a choice made by the DEVELOPERS, and Microsoft listened. Cliffy B of Gears of War fame said that Gears of War could not be made on the PS3, and this was simply because of it's insufficient ram.

Sony made an excellent choice in including a dvd player with every PS2. This was a great choice as dvd drives had been on the market for several years already and the prices had gone down to less than $200 by the time the PS3 came out. DVDs were also a very hot item and people saw dvds as a viable upgrade to their vcrs. Now, although the difference between HDDVD/BR and dvd is striking, it also requires a significant upgrade: the purchase of an HD set.

I still go back to Half-Life 2 and the Upcoming Crysis. Half-Life 2 came on one DVD (if you were smart and bought the dvd version, and not the multiple cd version) and HL2 (with HDR) has still not been topped by any current game on any system or PC. Crysis looks like it will topple just about everyone else in the graphics department and will only come on ONE DVD.

What's that? Kojima needs 50gb for "textures"? Check out the new Crysis CES videos at www.gametrailers.com and see what they are doing with only a "crappy" dvd as storage.

[Arkham]

"What's that? Kojima needs 50gb for "textures"? Check out the new Crysis CES videos at www.gametrailers.com and see what they are doing with only a "crappy" dvd as storage. "
--------

That's an entirely invalid comparison. PC games use DVDs as a pre-installation delivery system that requires a not insubstantial investment in terms of time and storage space.

Minor caching aside, console games still rely almost exclusively on disc activity for gameplay.

[Arkham]

LOL. Disagree all you want, but you don't just pop a disc into your PC and run the game directly of your optical drive.

[Funky Town_TX]

HD movies have been around for a while. If can watch them on a computer without HD-DVD or Blu-ray then they (electronic manufactures) could make stand alone players that do it also.

http://www.microsoft.com/wi...

[gnothe1]

act as if BlueRay is what makes it HiDef.when blue ray is only the storage!! look at all EA games that come on when played on the 360,what the first thing you see. EA HD GAMING!! they way the disc is written is what makes it HiDef!!

[silent ninja]

only kojima productions knows.whether they use all the space provided i could care less,now i'm with those that say more storage space is needed.to say that its not needed simply is foolish u never know what might come in the future. bd spaces is good but if only it were used so that the gameplay would laster longer than 8-10 hours of gameplay we've been getting for the past 6 yrs now.if they can triple the gameplay hour then i would be happy that sony included bd as of right now sony or konami could have paid kojima to say that

[ApocalypseShadow]

don't mind the "HATERS".these are the same people who think:

sitting in a kiddie pool would be just as good as a full backyard pool.

launching the space shuttle with bottlerockets is just as good as the large rockets it uses now.

buying a utility vehicle is unnecessary when you can store your recreational items and your family on top of a hatchback.

living in a box and putting your food in a paper bag is better than a house that you can store all your personal items and have a refridgerator that can store all your food in.

more space means: YOU HAVE AN OPTION TO GO BIG.these nuts think having hd games should have dvd cinemas to advance the story.or there should be no story because all they want to do is game and not have a story.they would rather have midi than 7.1 surround sound in 5-10 different languages to choose from.resistance got smaller because they didn't need the english track and other small things.but it's still bigger than dvd9.these CLOWNS think that 5 years from now,games can still be put on dvd9s in an hd era.that games like crysis will not need a top end pc that can handle the data.or that companies should have stuck with cd over dvd for ps2 and xbox.

i'm all for bigger games doesn't mean better.as long as the game is fun,who cares if it is 7 hours.but what if they could make a gran theft auto or getaway game that has so many things going on that it truely is a living,breathing city.vehicle sounds,plane overhead sounds,people talking,birds chirping,kids playing,leaves-rain-snow-debri s falling,seamless indoor/outdoor movement,multiple ai routines governing the police department,fire department,waste desposal,everyday people,airport.i could go on and on.but they would rather devs limit themselves to 360 development and dvd.

stop making excuses for last gen tech in a system that while powerful,is limited and has to always need patching and upgrading to equal what ps3 has built-in.

microsoft got the jump and sold close to 10 million(yes some are at retail).but you tell me it took 37 countries to do it?sony sold at least 20 million plus each in japan,us and europe alone excluding the other smaller countries with ps2.it's decent,but overall...WEAK.

when are some of you going to get it through your thick skulls that ps3 has 512 of ram to work with as well.it's just split.talk about viral marketing liers of misinformation.if it were 256 of ram,the games would ONLY LOOK HALF AS GOOD.some of you 360 gamers are so stupid.

[Funky Town_TX]

Sure looks like it. How many PS3 games do you have. The PS3 is being out sold by the Wii in Japan. Sony can't even hold it own against the Wii. That is that 10 years old tech you are talking about right. THE PS3 HAS BR ONLY BECAUSE SONY SALES MOVIES.

[Syko]

How can you possibly think a game needs a 50gig disc when a game like GTA4 is gonna be on both systems?? This is probably gonna be one of the biggest games of the year, But since they are not in Sonys pocket anymore they aren't making outrageous claims of "This game will need 30+ gigs" come on honestly. If you can't see that this is merely PR damage control then i'm dissapointed. Hell..Computers can hold big ass games if needed and I still have yet to see a game this big.

[THAMMER1]

Dose any one know if the files for games developed for the PS3 can be compressed? They just mite need the extra space if the final product is not compressed.

Who cares for real as long as the game is good. RIGHT!

This week end I though of some thing. I have not heard of type file compression for lunix bases soft ware. They may need the space because they are not useing any compression technologies.

[kikilala]

Why are you comparing linux and PS3?? Sure the cell support Linux.. But the main platform isnt Linux.. Linux is just a compatible add on for the PS3. And who said that linux doesnt have file compression system?? Linux distros use compression, not to mention that most open source compression tools are built for linux in mind.

And one more thing to those who says the dev doesnt compressed their asset in games for the PS3 then u are surely an idiot.. you got to remember that uncompressed asset took longer and harder to load.. have u ever tried to play a raw video format (uncompressed)?? it can took up to 1GB for a video files of around 1 minutes of playtime.. and it would took a heck of a processing power from normal pc to play that file.. so plz STFU if u dont know how compression and uncompressed asset works..

And one more thing, its true that the 360 touted itself to have more video ram (512mb).. But ask yourself where is the system ram?? They didnt say anything about system ram?? Could it be that the 360 can process all the non visual data without using any ram at all..?? OMG.. its a miracle..!! Man.. what a bunch of BS..

[FKN Unbelievable]

"microsoft got the jump and sold close to 10 million(yes some are at retail).but you tell me it took 37 countries to do it?sony sold at least 20 million plus each in japan,us and europe alone excluding the other smaller countries with ps2.it's decent,but overall...WEAK. "
You still talking? You saying alot of nothing right now. Stop your fake rally cry for your troops. Sonee is @ss-out this time around Plain and simple.

"when are some of you going to get it through your thick skulls that ps3 has 512 of ram to work with as well.it's just split.talk about viral marketing liers of misinformation.if it were 256 of ram,the games would ONLY LOOK HALF AS GOOD.some of you 360 gamers are so stupid. "
And Call of Duty, NFS:Carbon Run better and have better textures on 360. Matter of everything have better textures. Shut up man you just getting owned left and right. stay down son.

[Ggame]

Yes! Last year, Xbox360s were sold about 10.4 million units but the adds-on HD-DVD drives were sold just only 92,000 units. For PS3s, sold about 687,300 units which built-in Blu-ray drive.

It's look like the install based of HD, PS3 is leader.

[TheMART]

There is one small, but very important difference

The sold HD-DVD players are used to play the media by people that buy the movies.

The integrated BR players could only be used for playing PS3 games and no BR movies at all.

Imagine that. At this time, the sales of the discs are even more important then the push-strategy of no choice by Sony with the PS3. If people don't buy BR movies, that's a very expensive way to have unused BR players in peoples houses...

[rowdy 1]

10mil. they sold around 5mil and shipped around 10mil. If you are dissing MGS$ or any other metal gear game then you are just not a true gamer. This game has captivated millions for decades, Just because kojima has a great vision for the games he creates. I for one thinks that Halo is garbage it's more for 10 yr olds thatn grown ups. With all the phantom boms and fantasy crap and little creatures that sound like chipmunks.It's garbage just like the FPS game console called 360 is that all they produce is shooter games. I for one will be picking up my PS3 on 2/16. I will be playing some great games 2mons after that with LAIR, HS, and host of others. The games will be filled with levels and have plenty of game space for a long lasting gaming experience. The graphics now look great I can only imagine what they will look like this time next year. Just play gears of war or something with its lame online and laggy online that you pay a member ship for. While I'm surfing the net downloading tunes from limewire and playing hot ass games on my PS3. And not to mention the many types of hard drives I can add to it. One, one for games, one for porn, one for music. YEAH go SONY rock on

[sevenout]

"That's an entirely invalid comparison. PC games use DVDs as a pre-installation delivery system that requires a not insubstantial investment in terms of time and storage space.

Minor caching aside, console games still rely almost exclusively on disc activity for gameplay. "

Actually Crysis is a great example as it is going to be released on the PS3 and the 360, albeit a different version, and not a straight port of the pc version. There will not be an "improved" version with 40GB more textures released for the PS3 because if you watch the CES Crysis footage at www.gametrailers.com you will see that they are doing just fine with standard dvd.

What you still ignore is that Crysis is a primarily DirectX 9 game, with DirectX10 features and additions and it still fits on one dvd. Plus you really ignore the fact that Half Life 2 was ported to the original Xbox, which also uses regular dvds for storage. Furthermore you ignore that Half Life 2 is coming to both the 360 and the PS3 later this year and the PS3 version will still not be using any more storage than it's 360 counterpart, same goes with 99.9% of the games that will appear on both systems.

THIS IS IMPORTANT, as nobody except Sony first parties and those very few developers who have an exclusive agreement with Sony will even think about using that extra space, as it will NOT financially feasible given the PS3's apparent installed base deficiency.

[ApocalypseShadow]

you're one of the stupid clowns i was talking about.you fell into the trap.you couldn't come back and come up with a reason why i was wrong.so you personally attacked me.microsoft said 37 countries.just to hit 10 million in sold shipped numbers.out of over 100 posts,your beyond handicapped brain zeroed in on my post.

if you would have come up with a reason why more room isn't needed on a disc, why mgs4 will not be good,or why sony will not be in first,i'd then listen to your whining.it's not a rally cry to sony fans in what i say.it's my opinion.and most if not all is correct.

maybe your mom should have aborted you years ago so i wouldn't have to see you comment.it's "fkn unbelievable" you got some intelligence.

you name ports of games as proof for that small brain of yours.you need help.like a reverse lobotomy.

[rowdy 1]

you rock on shadowgamer

[FKN Unbelievable]

Shut down time for this clown again.

"more space means: YOU HAVE AN OPTION TO GO BIG.these nuts think having hd games should have dvd cinemas to advance the story.or there should be no story because all they want to do is game and not have a story.they would rather have midi than 7.1 surround sound in 5-10 different languages to choose from.resistance got smaller because they didn't need the english track and other small things.but it's still bigger than dvd9.these CLOWNS think that 5 years from now,games can still be put on dvd9s in an hd era.that games like crysis will not need a top end pc that can handle the data.or that companies should have stuck with cd over dvd for ps2 and xbox. "

Well Allow me Retort. How can i give an answer to nothing? You babling on and on about space when all in all Sonee's compression sucks. I guess you did'nt see how crackdown was huh? You don't pay attention you just love to hear yourself type. There was a Saying that remind me so much of you and DJ,Kingboy and plenty others it goes like this ,"Never argue with a Idiot,They'll Bring you down to their level and defeat you easily".

"you name ports of games as proof for that small brain of yours.you need help.like a reverse lobotomy. "

Do i have to bring up the Picture comparisons again? I did'nt want to inflict this on ya'll again but here it goes (My Xboxs fans cover you eyes this can get ugly.)
http://www.gamespot.com/fea...

"i'm all for bigger games doesn't mean better.as long as the game is fun,who cares if it is 7 hours.but what if they could make a gran theft auto or getaway game that has so many things going on that it truely is a living,breathing city.vehicle sounds,plane overhead sounds,people talking,birds chirping,kids playing,leaves-rain-snow-debri s falling,seamless indoor/outdoor movement,multiple ai routines governing the police department,fire department,waste desposal,everyday people,airport.i could go on and on.but they would rather devs limit themselves to 360 development and dvd. "

You ain't for sh1t if it don't sport the sonee brand you lying sack of PS3 games. No developer will be able to do anything you talking about on PS3. Stop crying Son it will be over soon. You sound like George Bush trying to justify going to war even though your troops(Sonee) keep getting killed on every front.BTW You wanna talk about Mothers , Yours Should have Swallowed you.

[ApocalypseShadow]

SPELL IT FOR ME.S-O-N-Y.SONY.you use ports of games from 360 that are supposed to prove that ps3 is inferior.i could use pc ports to 360 that had less textures and bad framerates as proof that 360 is a joke."360 will have tech that will be a year before pc can catch up".well what happened to those games?ports aren't proof.

bluray size is only a good thing.

mgs4 will definitely be a good game.hideo has never made a bad game.

sony entering the game industry helped the industry.not being controlled by nintendo and their cartridges.cd expanded games and made them sound better.dvd expanded games even more like gta.from the systems to the controller to the eyetoy,sony did good.microsoft is just expanding upon what sony already did.every idea they have is what sony had or was going to do.there is nothing in the system or what they are doing with downloads that sony didn't think up first.keep looking through those microsoft glasses.

[FeralPhoenix]

uhm, well NO -you honestly do believe this rant:

"from the systems to the controller to the eyetoy,sony did good.microsoft is just expanding upon what sony already did.every idea they have is what sony had or was going to do.there is nothing in the system or what they are doing with downloads that sony didn't think up first.keep looking through those microsoft glasses."

-lol, and you say he is wearing "microsoft glasses", well you better check the perscription on those bi-focals you have strapped to your head.

-Sony did a great job with PS2 actually it established a early install base in a much less competitive market than today so that and the PS1's success lead to strong dev support and it was able to maintain at least a majority of dev support throughout its lifecycle,= which again helps to sale more consoles,= which again keeps the majority dev support....are you starting to see the pattern here? Bottom line is it was a great system and the timing was ripe but PS2 wasn't the best hardware wise on the market after Xbox came along, but hardware alone could not overcome the PS2 and its install base, dev support, and brand recognition already owned by Sony. I'm not saying M$'s lead right now means it will "win" this "gen"....but Iam saying they have a shot. I still will say as a owner of both systems(I'm biased) but honestly the Xbox was a much better system.....when you compare most multi-platform games head to head Xbox was better, not to mention online service but that's beside the point....in the end (most) dev's want to make max profits so PS2 was the primary console for development. -Thus the cycle continues....but as far as all these "great ideas" from Sony, uhm...nope, they stole ideas from Nintendo and it seems that they tried their old tricks again at the last moment with the "sixaxis". Come on bro, you sound like a 6yr old saying: "every idea they have is what sony had or was going to do" ....oh, yeah I get it, M$ copied Sony because _____ was what Sony WAS GOING TO DO", lol ha ha now that is a great statement right there, you know in sort of like a 5 yr old kind of way.

BTW, I'm pretty sure FKN spelled Sony wrong on purpose. -Its a joke/play on words/spelling....its not that hard, but of course you were only being sarcastic right?

[MicroGamer]

The first MGS on PS2 had way too many cut scenes in it. Play for 5 minutes then be forced to sit through a 15 minute vid. You'll be watching hour long cinematics after 5 minutes of play if they give him the 50gb disc.