Bioware Shames a Genre, Other Developers Take Note

Bioware has been in the news a lot recently but not for good reasons. Hopefully this might give them some tips on improving PR for all developers.

[Godmars290]

But which genera? TPS or RPGs?

And will the industry actually learn from this?

[DBLDeathDealer]

You would think they would but we will have to see.

[da_2pacalypse]

EA... Learning?!?!? You give them too much credit my friend. They are the company which invented the online pass. This company has not seen or ever heard of the word: "Ethics"

In my opinion Bioware is basically done. Their games have been dropping in terms of quality right after Dragon Age Origins was released. ME2 was a good game, but unfortunately I can't really say it was an RPG... more of a TPS with small RPG elements. Then came DA2, which is possibly bioware's worst game made to date. And then TOR, which had some pretty lazy writing and did nothing in terms of creativity. And now we have ME3, which may be the biggest disappointment in 2012.

It's a shame, because Bioware games were one in a million in the gaming industry. Now CDProject is taking that name on.

[SephirothX21]

I would say From Software rather than CDProject but CDProject are also great. Even though the ending of Mass Effect 3 may be disappointing, the game is still great overall, even if not a great rpg. The same can be said for ME2. Also, people speak as though ME1 was much more a rpg than its successors but it wasn't and that was made before EA took over. ME is a squad tps with rpg elements but it has a wonderfully crafted universe. A KOTOR combat system could have been used but then people would say it wasn't been "creative".

TOR got decent reviews right across the board and it was Bioware's first mmo. Compare it with FFXIV where the dev had experience with FFXI.

I am not a Bioware fanboy and I do agree that DA2 was an insult to the first game. I'd prefer if Bioware were separate from EA and I'd prefer if ME was more of an rpg with more open and explorable areas instead of linear levels but their games still have high standards on average and I wouldn't write them off just yet.

[krazykombatant]

Highly doubt they'll learn. We all hoped they would learn after Dragon Age 2 and they didn't... Then they screwed up the ending, whether you're on the side that liked it or not. Too much controversy around them, they simply aren't the same developer from when Mass Effect and Kotor as well as Dragon Age: Origins were all release.

They used to be great and unblemished devs.

People on this site seem to just say "oh its all EAs fault and EA is the devil, BioWare is still innocent."

Well guess what BioWare has plenty of room to do what they want at EA. Almost like Blizzard and Activision. Only difference is that BioWare has gone the crummy route whilst Blizzard maintains the high ground. (In terms of game quality).

[KeiserSosay4788]

While I agree with most of your comment, it's easy to see that the whole Blizzard and Activision thing DEFINITELY messed with Blizzard. The games that have come out since then have either been streamlined and oversimplified ala Diablo 3 or released with tons of issues that were addressed in beta stages ala SC2 and Battle.net 2.0...

[Baka-akaB]

Except it's not that obvious at all . Blizzard has multiple times in the past , way before activision , taken stances that werent at the start appreciated by fans . They do their own thing .

And they'vell always been about streamlining their games and each sequels .

They are the kind that want the most simple things possible , and a master at the "easy to learn and pick up , difficult to master" types of games

[rdgneoz3]

"They are the kind that want the most simple things possible , and a master at the "easy to learn and pick up , difficult to master" types of games"

Yep, and that's how they're setting up talents/glyphs in the panda expansion. Though with some of their streamlining, people tend to think they're dumbing things down too much.

[humbleopinion]

How is Blizzard menatining high ground? If anything, Bioware managed to pump out great games at an amazing rate since acquired by EA, working simultaneously on five games in three franchises (TOR, ME, DA).
Blizzard on the other hand focused mostly on keeping the WOW cash cow with extensions, and released just a single game since: Starcraft 2. Not to mention how this game was delayed again and again, and eventually the campaign split into three different games so people will have to shell out 3 times the money to get the full story... that should put some nickle-and-dime DLC in perspective.

As much as I hope Diablo 3 will fare better, I am still unhappy with the always-on DRM this game is supposed to employ even when playing a single player game.

[krazykombatant]

@humbleopinion

Pump out 5 games, each of which has seen problems and its fair share of criticism. Dragon Age Origins was in developed and too far into it for EA to mess around with it. We saw what EA along with BioWare did to the game in dragon age 2. The first ME was with MS, for most and myself included that was the BEST Mass Effect in the series. Don't say that ME1, dragon age origins are from EA. You can stick with ME2, ME3 and its extended ending along with Dragon Age 2.

If i recall not many people are happy with Old republic mmo.

Sure blizzard has kept the cash cow of WOW fed.

But SCII suffers from very little problems. Its a game that they didn't release till the time was right until they saw the game did them proud. Sure theres been problems but blizzard has done PLENTY to listen to things on battlenet.

[humbleopinion]

@krazykombatant
You're deluding yourself if you think that DA has nothing to do with EA era of Bioware. The game was conceptualized earlier but only went into full scale development after ME1, and spent around 2.5 years under the EA umbrella, as did Awakening which was an excellent expansion.
DA2 was a dud, but not every Bioware game is a hit: NWN was good but not great, and the same goes for Jade Empire.

You are mixing your personal preference with the consensus, and the consensus is that ME2 considered better than ME1 - you can check the reviews in case you forgot. And in the end both of these games, as well as ME3 and TOR are all highly regarded and get lots of praises. The general quality of Bioware games is considered top notch, and under EA they managed to shift quite a lot of games with only DA2 considered a relative disappointment (and that's only because the first game held such high standards)

I think that Kotor was better than all of the ME games and BG2 was better than both DA games, but then again that's just personal preference.
To say that BioWare has gone the crummy route whilst Blizzard maintains the high ground - that's just plain wrong.

[catfrog]

what should they be learning? sales werent exactly bad for mass effect 3. theyre there to make money, not friends, as long as theyre making money theyre going to continue doing whatever theyre doing

[Anon1974]

You hit it right on the head. Mass Effect 3 sales were double Mass Effect 2's - and the game was a huge critical success as well with reviewers heaping a tonne of praise on the title.

What Bioware should take away from this is don't listen to the internet. There's a subset of gamers who won't be happy no matter what you do. They lost their minds when the game dared to go multiplatform. They took to the forums with their torches and pitchforks over the day one DLC, then it was hatred after playing the game for hours that the end of the game wasn't all things to all people. I'd say if I were Bioware I'd keep doing exactly what they've been doing. The critics love it, the fans are voting with their wallets. What's to change? Mission accomplished.

[limewax]

Mass Effect 3 was reduced to £24.99 in Asda on week 2 thanks to the BBC actually reporting on the uproar. Sales will no doubt feel the blow of being cut to nearly half price within a week

[Breadisgood]

They should be learning that gaming is supposed to be about art and entertainment, not money.

[Nimblest-Assassin]

Truth is I think they still have what made them great in the first place(never played Dragon Age)

When I talk about a Bioware game, or any RPG for any matter, I never talk about combat. I talk about the story, the characters, the lore.

I remember shitting bricks during Kotor when

SPOILER ALERT

I found out I was Revan the whole time.

ME3 was the first time I ever shed tears playing a game... He should have gotten to test those seashells.

I understand peoples concerns that ME3 was not a real RPG, but more a tactical shooter.. but what makes the games special is not the gameplay, but rather the conversation wheel, the great characters, lore, etc.

However I agree with the author that Bioware is distancing itself from the fans. This whole ending debacle could have ended if they gave a straight answer rather than LOTS OF SPECULATIONS FROM EVERYONE!But still, it is their game and they have the right to end it how they see fit.

They need to win the trust of the fans, because a majority of their fanbase still loves them. During their PAX presentation, everyone who asked questions, kept saying I love you guys. Most of the cosplayers thier dressed up as ME characters.

Its this love for the game, that made people so angry about the ending.

I feel bad for Bioware,I love them too, but my trust for them is fading. They are a great studio, but they are not in their glory days. I wish for them to return to them, without DLC controversies, without people complaining about the mechanics and the endings, but the great Bioware from 2 years ago.

The fans love Bioware... but I think Bioware needs to stop being criptic and just give the answers the fans want

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Megaton]

What's to learn? The media gave them 75 perfect scores, as EA relentlessly parrots in the face of criticism, and they moved millions of units. Looks like ruining a franchise is good business.

[GillHarrison]

These articles are getting ridiculous already. Because of the ending the game is terrible and now for some reason it's a shame to the genre?

[Godmars290]

I would think the Tali pic is part of it too.

[Xof]

A very, very minor part, more indicative of the generally low-quality of effort put into the game than anything else.

[Godmars290]

Minor, but still very telling when considering how big a deal they made her appearance out to be. It just screamed of laziness and disinterest.

[Hawkhunter12]

I'd rather BioWare put more effort in developing Tali's face rather than developing a minor character like Diana Allers in Mass Effect 3.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

I thought the game was good, but honestly speaking, the ending, is seriously that one part you got to do perfectly, not only for the fans but for the devs themselves.

Take MGS4 for example, that game had an awesome last fight and a very touching ending. Fans loved it and I'm sure Kojima and whomever else that worked with him loved how they ended it.

[Hayakuzima]

OMG the MGS4 ending was so good. I love that game.
I wonder if Mass Effect 3 was rushed, hence the terrible ending?
It isn't unheard of for EA to rush the development of the games they publish.
I dunno, just a guess.
It hardly shamed a genre anyway, imo.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

I wouldn't say they rushed it. I mean it's not exactly glitchy or anything like that. If anything I'd just say they hit a writer's block when writing the ending out. It happens, it sucks but it does. At the very least they delivered a very interesting and thought evoking experience.

[Baka-akaB]

If the rumors are true (wich it seems) about them rewriting the whole ending because of a leak , it has nothing to do with being rushed . They made a bad decision motivated by that and greed initially (they certainly werent planning the upcoming post end dlc as free , not at first )

[SeraphimBlade]

Okay, I understand the part about developers taking note, there's a lot to learn from this clusterf*** once you block out all the arguing fanboys. But "shaming a genre?" Ending and DLC crap aside, ME3 has to be one of the best games of the year. You don't shame anything when a game's only 99% incredible.

[Baka-akaB]

It's even insulting to the genre , that kind of statement . It basically means the genre is entirely weak and reliant upon Bioware's goodwill ? Screw that

[ginsunuva]

Still, it was a lot lower quality and quantity than Me2.

[mochachino]

Bioware is not nearly as talented as they were in the Xbox 1 days. They're falling off rapidly, not sure if it's EA or what, but their games have lost that special magic that KOTOR and Jade Empire had, and ME1 to a certain extent.

[rhap]

Bioware started to decline when they released NWN. People saying Dragon Age Origins is the greatest thing ever probably didn't notice it's an extremely oversimplified and dumbed down game compared to Baldur's Gate 2, the true Bioware's classic.

[smoothdude]

I just started playing ME1, so I guess I will eventually see this alleged bad ending. I remember that I was upset with the ending for Killzone 3.

[Kahvipannu]

I don't know... What defines RPG? It's hard question, for some people it is that you immerse to the character(s), for some it's stats and such, in general I would say it's option's you have to shape the experience.

Bioware does good job with the "roleplaying" part, they always have, that defines me most that game is RPG. Gameplay/structure wise thay have taken downhill to my own taste, ME wen't more pang pang, and DA2.. well, we all know how it turned out gameplay wise.

As an "oldschool" RPG-player I can just recommend people getting Witcher 2 or 1 if Bioware's games direction have let you down latelly. To me, they are RPG's mastered to the level it's hard to bypass.

[NYC_Gamer]

Its sad to see a once great rpg studio just crumble

[psyxon]

You people will complain about anything.

[_LarZen_]

The only thing that is shamfull is the group of nerds that cant deal with a ending they dont like.

Problably the same kids who refuse to buy Dark Souls after they begged on their knees for it to come to PC, just becaus the nerds dont like GFWL.

Im apaled by this little fraction of the pc comunity. Little shit heads the bunch of them.

[Flewid638]

Am I the only one who was peeved at the fact that the journal in ME3 does NOT update itself??

I find an item and I have to REMEMBER that I got it. There is no update saying that I have it and to now bring it to said person.

I do miss hacking as well. Those were a fun break from the action. I love ME3 overall...it was just reeeeaally streamlined.

[ziggurcat]

"This makes me want to ask the question: What should change in order for gamers to start trusting them again?"

for one thing, gamers can stop acting like a bunch of entitled spoiled brats.

they should also:

- can the lawsuits
- can the FTC complaints (lol)
- can the death threats