Fixing Mistakes: Why the next PlayStation Should Play PS2 games

In this weeks ForceTime, Sebastian talks about why the next PlayStation should play PS2 games, and how it has affected PS3 users.

[Snookies12]

The next Playstation should play PS3, PS2, and PS1 games... That would freaking rule...

[Relientk77]

^ This

[LOGICWINS]

Why would Sony give people a reason to ignore HD PS2 classics and PS1/PS2 games on the PS Store by making the PS4 backwards compatible with PS2/PS1 games? That makes no sense.

Why do something that will guarantee a reduction in HD PS2 collection sales?

[Megaman_nerd]

because not every game will get their own HD-release. I mean, where my HD Persona 3 and 4? Where my HD Atelier Iris or Suikoden?

Beside, not everybody owns or collect these old games so even with BC there's always going to be a market for these HD re-releases.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

lol

Are you serious? The only people that buy PS1/PS2 games on the PS store are people that don't have the games to begin with. You can already play PS1 games on the PS3 and as for PS2 games like I said before if you already have the game you wouldn't buy it off the PS store.

As for HD collections, I doubt that they'll be affected at all if the PS4 could play PS2 games. I own all the metal gear games and bought the HD collection anyway. I have all the Jak and Dax games and bought the HD collection. I have Final Fantasy X and plan on buying the HD remaster. I have all the Kingdom Hearts, and all the GTA games and if they were to make a HD collection for those games I'll buy them too.

HD collections are more for those that would like to re-experience classics in HD. And if you haven't played those games in the past you have an opportunity to experience them in an enhanced quality.

[n4gisatroll]

I already had god of war 1 and 2 but bought the hd version, same with mgs....why would it affect the ps4 and hd remakes?

[LOGICWINS]

Didn't happen with the PS3...won't happen with the PS4.

[SnotyTheRocket]

It did happen with the PS3, *looks at 60gb PS3*

[MrBeatdown]

"Why would Sony give people a reason to ignore HD PS2 classics and PS1/PS2 games on the PS Store by making the PS4 backwards compatible with PS2/PS1 games? That makes no sense."

Having the ability to sell a potential library of thousands of PS2 games via PSN makes no sense to you?

Okey dokey.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

I find it hilarious that you always stand by your original statement even after you are proven wrong.

You was better off using the potential fact that it'll make the PS4 more expensive as the basis of your argument as that was the reason why Sony removed it in the first place not because they wanted to scam gamers into buying HD collections lol.

That will be the only reason why I wouldn't want the PS4 to have BC. If it isn't too costly then Sony has no reason not to have BC in the PS4.

[maniacmayhem]

What logic was saying is why would Sony make the PS4 backwards compatible with ps2 games when they are already starting to roll out their ps2 classic games via the psn store and devs are starting to make their own classics HD re-mastered.

It doesn't make sense for Sony to do this. I mean seriously, did people not read that?

And yes if it was able to play ps2 games it would probably be marked up higher. Which I don't believe, its not like the ps2 is cutting edge tech. I still believe they just want to re-sell their classics via their store.

[MrBeatdown]

@maniacmayhem

It seems that to Sony, it makes sense to allow people to play PS1 discs on PS3, even though PS1 games are sold on the store. It makes sense to Microsoft to allow Xbox discs to be played on Xbox 360, even though Xbox games are sold on XBL.

Why does it suddenly make no sense for Sony to allow people to play PS2 discs on PS4?

Is the market for PS2 classics really going to be that dependent on people rebuying games they already own copies of, just so they don't have to keep their PS3 plugged in?

Neither Sony or Microsoft are so dependent on cashing in on repeat buyers that they need to block those with a disc from playing.

Every last feature of a system doesn't need to bring in direct revenue to "make sense". Backwards compatibility with your existing collection is a selling point for the console. Hell, if I could have played all my PSP games on a Vita, I would have bought one, along with a few premium priced games. And I'm sure not going to be rebuying all my PSP games for it once I do get one. If Xbox Live was free, I wouldn't buy all my online games for PS3. Charging for everything, and giving away nothing doesn't always make the most sense. In those two examples, it did nothing but drive me away. Sony and MS would have made more money off of me by giving something away free, instead of trying to squeeze every last penny they can out of me.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

@maniacmayhem

"It doesn't make sense for Sony to do this. I mean seriously, did people not read that?"

Yet they have PS1 backwards compatibility and have PS1 classics in the PS store...

EDIT: lol Mr.Beatdown beat me to it.

I don't get why you guys assume that the reason why people buy PS2 remakes/PS2 classics is because they have no choice but to do so since the discs they already have don't work on the PS3 lol.

[maniacmayhem]

@Beatdown

***Why does it suddenly make no sense for Sony to allow people to play PS2 discs on PS4?***

Well for starters Sony has said that removing the ps2 features from the PS3 was part of the reason for bringing the price of the PS3 down. Why would Sony up the price of the PS4?

Ps1 games are sold at stores? Really? Because I just went to Gamestop to try and find a copy of Star Ocean, Re-Loaded and couldn't find it. In fact ps1 games weren't even in stock. I wonder if Toys R US or Target sells PS1 games? Doubt it. These games are out of print and can only be found on E-Bay for high prices.

***Every last feature of a system doesn't need to bring in direct revenue to "make sense".***

Really? I find this statement very hard to take in. Every feature on a system is a selling point. Offering PS2 games via the psn store is a feature to bring in direct revenue. They just rolled this new feature out too. Why kill it by making the ps4 BC with ps2. It makes more sense to make it BC with PS3 since those games are currently well in stock.

@Outside
***I don't get why you guys assume that the reason why people buy PS2 remakes/PS2 classics is because they have no choice but to do so since the discs they already have don't work on the PS3 lol***

I don't get why you assume that everyone has every PS2 game ever made and available to them. There are a lot of PS2/PS1 games I don't own that I would love to get my hands on if made available again.

[MrBeatdown]

@maniacmayhem

***************
"Well for starters Sony has said that removing the ps2 features from the PS3 was part of the reason for bringing the price of the PS3 down. Why would Sony up the price of the PS4?"
***************

Yeah. They removed the HARDWARE necessary for PS2 emulation. If PS2 backwards compatibility can be done via software emulation on PS4, just like PS1 emulation is done for PS3 and PSP, price is a non-issue. If no additional hardware is needed to support it, it isn't driving up the price.

***************
"Ps1 games are sold at stores? Really? Because I just went to Gamestop to try and find a copy of Star Ocean, Re-Loaded and couldn't find it. In fact ps1 games weren't even in stock. I wonder if Toys R US or Target sells PS1 games? Doubt it. These games are out of print and can only be found on E-Bay for high prices."
***************

What the hell are you even talking about? I never said PS1 games were still sold in stores. Outside never said assumed everyone had "every PS3 game ever made" either. Do you think we're arguing against making PS1 and PS2 games available on the PS Store? Because we're not. I, and I'm sure Outside does as well, want downloadable versions to be offered, and we want owners of disc versions to be able to play those too.

***************
"Really? I find this statement very hard to take in. Every feature on a system is a selling point. Offering PS2 games via the psn store is a feature to bring in direct revenue. They just rolled this new feature out too. Why kill it by making the ps4 BC with ps2. It makes more sense to make it BC with PS3 since those games are currently well in stock."
***************

PS2 games on PSN is only a selling point to those who want to buy the games offered. It's not a selling point to those who just want to play games they already own.

And you're suggesting PS2 games aren't well in stock. And you also rambled on (for some bizarre reason) about the unavailability of PS1 games. So, you think by allowing people to play some PS2 games they already own, it's going to kill sales of PS2 games on PSN? If PS1 and PS2 games are hard to come by, and people still want to buy them, there's a market for them on PSN, and Sony doesn't need to rely on blocking people who already own copies from playing them, just to sell more digital versions.

[Hicken]

HD collections will not suffer. Dunno why you think it WOULD.

I don't have a BC PS3, so I rely on my 8 year-old PS2, which is sometimes less reliable than I'd like to admit. Still, I regularly go back a generation or two to play games.

The PS4 should not HAVE TO play PS2 games, but it'd be nice. PS1 compatibility is something of a given, seeing how easy they are to deal with. And with PS3 and PS4 games at least both being Blu Ray, that shouldn't be too difficult, either. If playing PS2 games is a software issue, and not a hardware issue, for the PS4, then I don't see any reason why they WOULDN'T include it.

After all, that's a massive 3 generation library at launch, plus the new games of the eighth generation right alongside it.

If you ask me, that's a helluva lot of value got the system, right out of the box, and I would probably buy a PS4 if only for the sake of being able to consolidate all my libraries in one system and STILL be ready for the next.

Yes, I'd probably still keep my PS3, PS2, and PS1, just as I do now. As such, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary for me to have BC. But it'd be sweet as hell if Sony could boast of having 20 years worth of great games available across three generations of gaming, even while moving into a fourth.

Who else could even come close to saying the same?

[SilentNegotiator]

Still playing the old "ZOMG Sony is ripping us off by selling us old games (instead of BC)!" card?

Yaaaaaawn.

First of all, you specifically said "HD" ps2 collections. Original Ps2 game discs DON'T play in native HD. Even many people WITH the old ps2 games want to see them in HD, so they buy HD collections and enjoy the game again. Your logic that allowing people WITH the old games to play them in 480p (the only difference is the hardware being played on, instead of the now cheap as bones ps2) will make them not buy HD collections......makes ZERO sense.

People with the old games with zero interest in seeing them restored in HD....will play them on their old system. People with an interest in HD collections want to see the game in HD or else just never owned those games in the first place.....neither of which would be deterred by BC.

Stop it with the disingenuous troll sob stories and dead arguments.

[maniacmayhem]

@Beatdown
***Yeah. They removed the HARDWARE necessary for PS2 emulation. If PS2 backwards compatibility can be done via software emulation on PS4, just like PS1 emulation is done for PS3 and PSP, price is a non-issue. If no additional hardware is needed to support it, it isn't driving up the price.***

Okay, again why would they do this when they have the new ps2 store? I see where you are coming, you want don't to be this charity for gamers and not care about making extra scratch but they are still a business and they want to make money. The Ps2 had some of the best games ever that are now hard to find or non existent. I doubt they will add the same emulation as ps1.

***It seems that to Sony, it makes sense to allow people to play PS1 discs on PS3, even though PS1 games are sold on the store. It makes sense to Microsoft to allow Xbox discs to be played on Xbox 360, even though Xbox games are sold on XBL.***

Sorry I mis-read this, you said store instead of Xbl or psn. and then you start to use xbl and psn afterwards so it made me think you meant actual retail store.

***So, you think by allowing people to play some PS2 games they already own, it's going to kill sales of PS2 games on PSN?***

My point is this, sony is in the business of making money. Why didn't they offer Ps2 emulation in the slim models to allow users to play their ps2 games the same way ps1 games could be played?
It's because they saw a demand from fans who want to still experience ps2 games.

***Sony doesn't need to rely on blocking people who already own copies from playing them, just to sell more digital versions.***

But they already have if you don't own a 60g fat.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

@maniacmayhem

"Okay, again why would they do this when they have the new ps2 store? I see where you are coming, you want don't to be this charity for gamers and not care about making extra scratch but they are still a business and they want to make money. The Ps2 had some of the best games ever that are now hard to find or non existent. I doubt they will add the same emulation as ps1."

Look, you're not getting it. THE ONLY PEOPLE that BUY PS2 games off of the PS store are those that DO NOT ALREADY OWN the PS2 games to BEGIN with. So by making PS4 have BC it would hardly put a dent in the sales. People who have PS2 games most likely have still have a PS2. It wouldn't make sense to keep your games, but not the PS2... SO once again the only people that buy PS2 games off of the PS store are those that no longer have the games, thus putting BC in the PS4 will not hurt PS2 sales on the PS store.

"My point is this, sony is in the business of making money. Why didn't they offer Ps2 emulation in the slim models to allow users to play their ps2 games the same way ps1 games could be played?
It's because they saw a demand from fans who want to still experience ps2 games."

Maybe they couldn't do it for the same reason why they can't add cross game chat??? Point is we don't know the exact reason why they didn't do it. We don't even know if they even have a software emulation for PS2 games. Mr.Beatdown was only speculating that IF Sony can do it via software, cost will be a known issue.

[MrBeatdown]

@maniacmayhem

"Okay, again why would they do this when they have the new ps2 store? "

Emulation needs to be done either way, whether it is to get downloadable PS2 games or disc-based PS2 games to work. The best choice for Sony is to do it on the hardware side (whether via hardware or firmware), rather than trying to do it on a game by game basis for hundreds of games. It doesn't seem like it would require much additional effort to make it work for both types of game, as opposed to just downloadable.

So why not offer backwards compatibility to everyone? You said yourself there are tons of great games that are hard to find. Sell the games to the people who want them, and let people who already own them, play them. You'll have nothing but happy customers that way. And some of those happy customers will still be more than willing to buy downloadable versions just for convenience's sake, or buy HD collections for the improved graphics and trophies.

I'd imagine it's unlikely that trying to get people to rebuy PS2 games for their PS4 would amount to any truly substantial benefit to Sony, especially when you weigh the backlash that would come from such a blatant cash grab. But allowing people to play their disc versions would be a big selling point to a lot of people.

Yes, Sony is a business and their goal is to make money, but just like PSN being offered for free, even if it's not directly bringing in revenue, it's a selling point. It helps get the console into a customer's house, and that money that would have been put toward rebuying PS2 games could just as easily be put towards new games. Making money the most direct and immediate way isn't always the best way to do things in the long term.

PS2 backwards compatibility wasn't excluded from PS3 just for the sake of making more money. The reason it was removed in the first place was because it operated via hardware. Sony removed that hardware to bring down costs, and eventually lower the PS3's price. And if Sony really did remove it in an effort to make more money by reselling PS2 games, you'd see far more effort put into it than five Sony HD collections and a handful of obscure PS2 games on PSN after years since the removal of backwards compatibility.

And like I mentioned. Microsoft offers backwards compatibility with Xbox and PS3 does the same with PS1 games. You can play Xbox or PS1 games whether you download them or have the disc. If it has worked for both of them, I see no reason why that same strategy wouldn't work again.

[Relientk77]

It should play PS2 games. It also should play PS1 and PS3 games, cuz I play games from all 3 systems.

[IM_KINECTED]

It should definitely play PS2 games, I don't really have any PS1 games, so that part doesn't really matter, but it should easily be able to emulate PS1 games anyway.

There is no need to not include BC in the next generation of consoles, since this generation has trophies/achievements and are in HD already, we wont need HD remakes next generation.

I'm very happy I have a BC PS3, I was an early adopter. I have over 150 PS2 games, the PS2 had such a vast library I was disappointed when they took out BC in the PS3. Well over 100 million people owned PS2's and therefore PS2 games, it can get bulky keeping a PS2 in the mix as well as all the other consoles.

Here's hoping we can play all previous PlayStation games on the PS4!

[Vortex3D]

The article author is still dreaming of PS4 having PS2 BC directly. It's not going to happen as Sony has been clear about reselling selected PS2 games as HD remastered version.

We'll continue to see such article being written for several more years and it doesn't matter how logical the articles will sound, Sony will not bring PS2 BC back. HD remastered is the only hope for more PS2 games.

Hoping to play PS2 games in BC is pointless. Sure you can disagree but you know inside, Sony wants money for bringing PS2 games in HD.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

lol another fool.

You think the reason why people buy HD collections is because they have no other choice to?

People aren't fools. They buy it because they want to re-experience their favorite PS2 classics in an enhanced version. Notice how I said favorite. It's not like people go "Damn, my PS3 don't have backwards compatibility. I guess I have to buy these HD remakes just in case if I ever want to play these PS2 games again. herp derp."

[Vortex3D]

Keep dreaming and Sony will not give you BC. What are you going to do? Keep your old PS2 console around.

Let's see who's right when PS4 comes out.

[OhReginald]

PS4 NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO PLAY PS3 GAMES!

[kalel114]

This!! Want to play PS2 games? Pick up a PS2 for $50 or buy them off the store when they are available. I want the next system to only play PS3/PS4 games. It will be cheaper in the long run and Sony can focus on the here and now.

[spacedelete]

nope. it should play every Playstation game ever or not at all. why should you get what you want but not us ? ignorant.

it doesn't make sense to me for PS3 you can use PS1 and PS3 discs but not PS2 discs ? no logic at all.

[ElementX]

I really don't go back to previous generations to play games. Just something about the graphics and audio that gets to me. Back in the day older games were great, but I always want to move on to bigger and better things.

[AceofStaves]

I have a 60 gig launch model PS3, which I bought at launch, and I have only used the PS2/PS1 backwards compatibility twice over the years. Why? Because I also have a launch PS2 that works, and an original PSX, which I purchased in '97.

Yes, backwards compatibility is a nice feature to have, but consumers rejected the need for that feature, as the PS3's poor launch performance proved back in 2006-2007. The consumers spoke, Sony listened, and dropped the feature to make the PS3 more cost effective to produce.

The HD collections have proven to be popular, and the PS2 is still selling at this point, so I can't see any reason why Sony would reverse policy and make the PS4 backwards compatible.

[cervantes99]

Wow. Nobody will buy a PS4 to play PS2 games. I want 1080p 60 frames per second with high levels of Anti-Aliasing - NOT 480p 30 frames.

HD remasters are great because they no longer look so horrible on big screen HD TVs.

Move on people. I LOVED the PS2 back in the day but come on... Maybe we should complain about Wii U not playing my cartridge NES/SNES games too.

[SweatyFlorida]

Exactly. It would also cost Sony more to do BC compatibility for what would seem a minor crowd. I buy a new console to play that new consoles games, not so I can play a game I bought 8 years ago! And I'm sure the PS4 would make no difference between a BC version and a none BC version in terms of sales, so why waste time AND money on that? Do people know the pit Sony dug themselves in with the price and specs of the PS3??

All these "gamers" want everything in the next systems without even knowing anything about what goes into the console to make them be able to do things, and trying to keep the console affordable. Even 1080p @60 fps is going to be a stretch dependent on the hardware of said console and whether or not devs want to use that resolution and/or frames!

[ziggurcat]

how about people quit being concerned with backwards compatibility and focus on the games that will be out for that generation?

i mean, i can understand the feeling of nostalgia, but FFS... i don't see why you would want to replay a game you already played to death 10 years ago.

[cervantes99]

Next article - "PS4 will not play PS2 games - has it already failed?"

/s

[ziggurcat]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

/s

:)

[CHARLIEBROWNE]

@Snookies12
The next Playstation should play PS3, PS2, and PS1 games... That would freaking rule...

Say what? My ps3 already does that fool.

[Xander-RKoS]

It should also make toast and do my homework, and drive my car, and bake my cakes, and read my books, and play my music, and watch my movies, and start a fire, and fly a plane, and seek the holy grail, and teach me spanish, and record my shows, and compose my opera, and...

[Rivitur]

and play games? =P

[Soldierone]

It shouldn't do it out of the box. They learned. Offering everything out of the box in the market right now is hard. It raises the price and people will go to the cheaper price. How do you think the crappy arcade version of Xbox sells so well? Low initial cost.

What they SHOULD do is sell peripherals. Attach a PS3/PS2 drive for like 50-80 bucks. PS1 games are so small and cheap to make I see no reason why it can't be included.

They can't even release multiple models at multiple prices because it "confuses" people....They need to keep costs down to compete with the likes of Microsoft, so the first place costs will be cut is this. Why? Because they make no money if they allow you to sit on your PS3 collection for a year.

[bunfighterii]

I have little desire to go back and play PS2 games now. I'd like it to be PS3 backward compatible. I have a massive PS3 library of 40 plus games now, many which I need to finish still so that'd be good.

[GraveLord]

NO. It shouldn't.

I don't want an extra $50 tacked on to the PS4 just because you guys are too lazy to switch inputs.

[RevXM]

Ok, then like 2 years from now Sony stop making PS2's.
Outsold everywhere... Your ps2 happens to die some time later.

You will regret saying this if what you wanted now came true.

[SLLCKGT]

What exactly were you guys playing your PS2 games on before PS3? Thats right a PS2! Pull it out of your closet and hook it up or buy a new or used PS2 for dirt cheap. Seriously some of you need to get to get a life complaining about not being able to play 10 year old games.

[smashcrashbash]

Not sure why it SHOULD. I understand why it would be nice for it to do that but why SHOULD it? All the other systems didn't give a crap about BC. Nintendo made you buy every game for all their last systems all over again and didn't even give a thought about at least making the Wii compatible with the Gamecube. Microsoft is only now thinking about HD remakes and they barely even give a crap about it either with only some Xbox games being compatible .And no one faulted them for it or stopped buying their systems because of it.

So not sure why the constant badgering by people for Sony to do BC. Why people continually go on about UMD connections to the VITA. Sony could easily just jump up and say 'Just buy the new games and shut the hell up' which is basically what Nintendo and Microsoft did to everyone.Why as a business should I care if you never get to play old versions of my games when I am trying to sell you new ones? Why should I care about your cheap ways while you ignore my newly made games just so you can save money? And before you jump to disagree, show me the slots on the Wii where you can play SNES, Gamecube and N64 games. I don't see why it is always up to Sony to give a crap when the others barely do.

[R1CAN617]

Why buy a Next Gen system to play last Gen games,
if its really that important then hold on to your PS1/PS2/PS3.

[RevXM]

They are machines and they wont last forever.
That is the main reason why we need this.

AND PS1-2 games should be no problem to emulate with awesome res with AA options etc at decent FPS.
Any decent pc can do that.
Ps3 emulation... that is a another story, but if it still Sports a CELL type CPU or is built with the old Cell in it then there shouldnt be any problems running Ps3 games.

Ps3's hardware isnt enough to succesfully emulate ps2 by its own. which is why they had to make them with some PS2 hardware... BUT OFC people camplained and said it was not important and a waste of money so they took it out and that made me mad when my 60GB died.

So Im voting for the PS4 to have a powerful modernized CELL cpu. Its key point is that it can execute the same commands and tasks as the old cell in ps3 would, but is modern with all up to date performances and features.

[bahabeast]

this is one reason why i know for sure ps4 aint coming till 2014 atleast if its gonna play ps3 games out of the box then that means less people gonna buy the ps3 and instead go for the newer system, sony wants to make some more money with the ps3 as flagship

[theeg]

pcsx2 is the answer, for me at least, i like ps2 games better than 98% of all ps3 or 360 games, the only games that come close to my favoritve ps2 games are demons souls, dark souls, mgs4 and uncharted 2.

seriously, those 4 games, thats it.

ps2 games like champions of norrath, baldurs gate 1 and 2, persona, nocturne, kingdom hearts, dmc 1 and 3, onimusha 1,2,3, shining force, ffx, ffxii, trapt, so many i cannot even list them all.

pcsx2 allows me to play 99% of my ps2 collection in 1080p at 60 frames, (i still own well over 250 ps2 games) right now I'm playing personal 3 in 1080p, and let me tell you, it is amazing, 5.1 sound, 60 buttery frames

also, i am replaying kingdom hearts 1 then going to move onto 2

my wife is playing code veronica x in 1080p.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

it's 100% legal and does not cost a dime

most games require a mid-spec, budget pc

decent dual/quad core, 4gb ram and an cheap dedicated gpu are fine

if you, like me, want to max every possible setting and make ps2 games look better than some ps3 games, you need a fast cpu and 4gb ram and a decent gpu.