Why Arkham City is a better role-playing game than Skyrim

Is the best role-playing game the one with the most detailed stats and exciting loot, or is it the one that most successfully makes you feel like the character you're playing as?

[Trainz]

I like batman.

[brodychet]

I voted Batman as GOTY against Skyrim. I know I'll get disagrees. Skyrim is just.. ridiculous on Ps3. They didn't deserve goty. So broken.

[Moragami]

Maybe on PS3, but that's definitely not the case on PC.

One of the most important things about an RPG, is that it saves your progress. Batman AC cannot do this, so it's a shitty RPG.

Batman AC sucks, Skyrim rules.

Can you tell that I lost a 35 hour save game in Arkham City? Yeah, I'm bitter.

[kaveti6616]

Basically, the reason why Skyrim doesn't deserve any praise or any award or any recognition is because it doesn't run well on 6 year old hardware.

[Captain Qwark 9]

ill agree with you sir, hell its deeper than skyrim too with much more clever level design, much better story, much better combat, and most of all, it built upon its predecessor....

skyrim gave elder scrolls a pretty face lift, added duel wielding, and dragon shouts ( most of which were covered with spells in the previous games anyway ) and then they cut an enormous amount of sh*t, forgot to test for bugs and called it a sequel.

yeah bats is better....

@kavet

really? are you serious? it had just as many bugs on any high end pc dude dont be ridiculous

[Drake117]

not sure what world Captain Qwark is living in. Much deeper?...your delusional. Much better level design?...sure ppl that like zelda would agree i guess. Better story?...lol maybe to you but thats def subjective. Better combat yeah prob to most, but skyrims combat is about making the player feel like they are walking in the characters shoes, hell most ppl that don't like the combat prob just made a boring character type that runs around and swings his sword. They prob never tried stealth attacks or mixing spells with melee or anything.

From what you are saying it seems like you never even played oblivion or morrowind for that matter. Lol idk wtf u are smoking with the dragon shouts thing because i sure as hell dont remember a spell that completely froze ppl, or a spell that slowed time, or one that dashed u forward, or one that increased attack speed, or summon a dragon, disarm ppl, make u become a spirit...good god man theres like maybe 2-3 shouts that are also spells...im wondering if u have even played skyrim let alone oblivion. If u actually had played skyrim then you would know that it has an exponentially larger amount of content. Just because they removed worthless ass things like a hit and miss stat from morrowind or an annoying feature like having to repair your armor and weapons halfway into a dungeon doesn't mean they cut an enormous amount of "sh!t". Oh and don't b delusional the game didn't have half as many bugs on pc as it did on ps3, and the ones it did have weren't game breaking in any way.
Skyrim was the best game in 2011 by a long shot as decided by most gamers and critics alike which is far more relevant than the tiny population of haters on N4G. I'm sorry your favorite game of 2011 wasn't as critically acclaimed or successful but its time to get over it.

[linkratos]

@Drake Wait a minute, are you saying only Zelda fans appreciate good level design? That's a pretty big component of videogames, and it's probably one of the weaker elements of Skyrim (which is a fantastic game overall).

Level design and attention to detail are what makes games like Batman, Zelda, Portal, Mario, and Rayman stand out, despite their small scale compared to games like Skyrim and GTA.

[morganfell]

I like Batman but it is hardly an RPG. Your morality choices are extremely limited as the majority of the AI you encounter, not all but the vast majority, force you to treat them in the same manner.

You have to be the Batman. You can't choose to take a vastly different road. I am no fan of Skyrim. Not in the least. But in Batman your morality is the equivalent of being on rails. While freedom to treat others as you please isn't a prerequisite for an RPG, it is expected to some degree in this day and age.

While Batman does have a physical free roam element, it is much more restrictive than Assassin's Creed.

[taylork37]

I haven't had one problem with Skyrim on PS3.

[brodychet]

For the majority of people on ps3, Skyrim is broken, and since Bethesda can't create a bug-free game, or a mostly lag-free game on hardware this old.. then they don't deserve goty. Like.. they make great games. But there's a reason their nickname is Bugthesda. Batman was liked just a little more for me.

[Drake117]

No im trying to say that Batman takes alot from Zelda in terms of level design. Im also not trying to say that either are bad games i was just shocked at how ridiculous Qwarks comment was.

[MysticStrummer]

Skyrim didn't deserve all those awards because it was extremely buggy on every platform (not just PS3) when it released and there are still problems with every version. As for Batman being an RPG... that's ridiculous. As an old school pen and paper RPG player, I don't consider most games labelled as RPGs to be part of the genre. That includes the FF series. In a proper RPG, you should be presented with a world and allowed to make/play your character how you want to within that world. When a game tells me who I am it ceases to be an RPG to me.

[Bioshocking]

@Drake117

Dude... almost 96% of PS3 owners who bought Skyrim hate it. We got screwed out of a good game, and most people gave up on this game that was supposed to last for months only 2 months after release.

Batman, Uncharted, Dark Souls, Portal 2, Deus ex, Zelda.... these games deserve GOTY more than Skyrim...

The media blew this game out of proportion, and the reasons they gave Skyrim such great scores and these awards is so half-assed, that I gave up on video game reviews in general. The fact that you give a game that does not work a 9.5-10 and game of the year is baffling.

No one hates the content of Skyrim, but the fact the game does not work in general

[guitarded77]

I am Batman.

[Solid_Snake37]

and im Robin

[JohnnyMann420]

Can I be the batmobile? Puhhhleeez

[RyoHazukiii]

@johnnymann420
You saying that you like to have men in spandex riding you?
Haha thats just wrong...

[acemonkey]

just got plat in Skyrim i enjoyed it but i was playin on the ps3 and the lag was crazy......but yes i rather be batman then my human in skyrim.....batman in my eyes was a great game and so was skyrim....gave them both the same review score...but batman will always have an edge just b.c its batman lol and im fanboy i guess lol

[THR1LLHOUSE]

This is a really interesting argument, and I think it stems from the idea that "role-playing game" is a really vague name.

I mean, try explaining to someone who doesn't play video games how Final Fantasy and Fallout are the same genre, yet are pretty much nothing alike.

[NagaSotuva]

Batman wouldn't quit adventuring even with an arrow in his knee.

[Foxgod]

Neither does the Dragon Born, in the 90 hours he ventured Skyrim, he took more then 600 arrows all over his body, and still keeps going strong.

[Bioshocking]

Now if he was a better adventurer, he would not have taken any....

[Captain Qwark 9]

@bioshock

let me correct you sir....

"Now if he was BATMAN, he would not have taken any...."

[D3mons0ul]

The elements that made RPGs RPGs are implemented in just about every new game now so in that regard, all modern action games are technically RPGs.

Overall, every genre needs a name change to suit the times.

[Captain Qwark 9]

the funny thing about your statement, most other genres keep adding rpg elements these days while most "rpgs" are dropping those same elements to become more mainstream like the action games lol

most shooters now have xp and levels and numerous skills...

skyrim dropped even more skills, cut many spells, and is now a much less deep experience than oblivion and a much much more shallower game than morrowind....

[JohnnyMann420]

I think it's a shit argument. When playing Mario bros I feel like Mario. Does that make it a role playing game?

Role play and rpg is two different things. Batman ain't a rpg but has some elements.

Next time think before writing a worthless article, author.

[soundslike]

exactly...

every game can be a "role playing game"

but when we say RPG as a primary genre, we mean that loot and leveling up are not a side attraction

[Biggest]

How can anyone feel like Mario? Games that have limited controls are lacking in the immersion category. If Mario had something more than run, jump, use power-up then I can see it. If Mario had a first person view it would be even more viable. Games that have multiple layers to combat/exploration/whatever can make the claim of role-playing stick. Mario is too simple for that.

[JohnnyMann420]

@Biggest... Miss the point much?

[Drake117]

Completely agree with you dude. Plus it also sounds like skyrim just isn't this dudes type of game. Either way not sure how somebody that can't tell the difference between the 2 can make an article and have it b called newsworthy on this site.

[TopDudeMan]

The term RPG is not supposed to be taken literally. I mean, you play a role in every game. RPGs are more about stats and classes etc IMO.

[Foxgod]

Batman is more of an openworld on foot game like assassins creed....

[Zha1tan]

Putting games into genres is a bit like an unsharpened pencil......

Pointless

I have two genres

What I dont like and what I like.

[SybaRat]

Yeah, but do you get to choose between marrying Catwoman and Robin? Uh huh. That's what I thought. Rocksteady wimped out on hooking up with Robin. SOME RPG THAT IS.

[honkyjesus]

"I just blogged some nonsense on the Internet".

[nnotdead]

i get what he is saying. in Skyrim you don't have much of a character. they are more of an empty vessel that gets told what he is, and what he should do. there it's impossible to really play a role while not excluding yourself from a large majority of the game. at the same time, your character doesn't evolve or grow as a being during his journey. although i did enjoy the game, these problems stopped me from playing as many hours as a lot of other people who enjoyed it.

[VonAlbrecht]

Why does it need to be anything more? The empty vessel is YOU. You decide how your character reacts to things and handles situations. This is entirely in YOUR power. If you fail to see that and require hearing the person that YOU are playing to say things that you probably wouldn't even say, then you don't have the imagination required to get the most out of Skyrim.

[Motorola]

@nnotdead I don't think we played the same game. In Skyrim, YOU get to choose what to do.

[Biggest]

You get to choose what you do, but not who you are, where you're from, or why anyone should care. You're the Dragonborn, but no one really cares. You can do magic, but aside from the random "enchant my sword, punk" comment no one seems to care. You can't make the argument that using imagination makes Skyrim worth more. That same argument can be applied to EVERYTHING. It comes down to what a role playing game is to you. Skyrim, Final Fantasy, Deus Ex, Suidoken, and many other games are role playing games by genre title. That doesn't make them any more or less of a role playing game than Batman, Call of Duty, Metal Gear Solid, or any other game that requires more than simple button presses to complete. I personally find fault with Skyrim-type role playing games. They are like GTA with almost no personality. You can do whatever you want in GTA, but at least people know your name.

[antihiroprotagonist]

this article isn't good

[moredekai]

And call of duty is the best mmorpg because it is online and you can level up and unlock stuff. /sarcasm

[admiralthrawn87]

there are a lot of rpg's better than skyrim, which had the complexity of a CoD game.

[byrnezy]

lol well well in God Of War I felt like Kratos so that must of been one hell of a rpg...

[theeg]

batman ac is a good game, skyrim is better though, both are very high quality, but skyrim can last you years!

[Flewid638]

I think the definition of RPG since the dawn of gaming till now is "This is Gonna Be Long and Tedious."

But of course, the purpose is meant to be fun. Easy to do in a 5 hour game, a bit more challinging if your game is 10 to 12. But a 60hr experience?

It's why RPG's are such a niche genre. Commercial success, but niche. And in reality, the only gamers truly dedicated to an RPG or even an MMO commitment, are the hardcorest of core.

FF VII was the last RPG I was able to successfully play from start to finish. None could hold my attention.......till Mass Effect 2 (never played ME1, no Windows/360 platform in the house). And I can truly say for such a long, dedicated experience, incorporating "non-traditional" ingredients in what would otherwise be a "Long and Tedious" commitment.....they critically and commercially succeeded.

[BattleTorn]

cause you have sooo much customization in Batman.

Seriously though, RPGs are usually characterized with "character creation", and choices.

[erivera1994]

Arkham city will always be my 2011 Game of the year

[aliengmr]

I love both games, but Batman is the furthest thing from an RPG as one can get. RPG's have character customization but that's only part of it. In Batman:AC you are governed by Bruce Wayne's ethics and personal history. In Skyrim, you are Dovakiin. He or she is whatever you make of him or her. Skyrim is more of an RPG than most. Many games may have RPG elements, like Batman AC, but to say that it even comes close to "RPG-ness" of Skyrim is absurd. Both are great, yet completely different, games.

stupid article.

[Tito08]

Since when Batman is considered an RPG??? I think the term RPG is very overused like it's not even funny, like everything is a damn RPG, then that means Devil May Cry, God Of War, Uncharted, Infamous & Ninja Gaiden are RPGs as well, freaking ridiculous!!!!!

The western media & companies wants to call RPG on every single thing, like seriously, leave that term alone!!!!!

[Canary]

Technically speaking, "RPG" is not a genre. Not any more, at least. Basically, there are two kinds of games--games where you play as a defined role or character (an RPG) and those where you do not. RTS games, racing games, puzzle games all fit into the latter, whereas (modern) shooters, third-person action games, turn-based "rpgs," etc. all fit into the former.

These days, nearly ~every~ game is an RPG.

And, while you may be able to create an "avatar" in TES games, they're still not roleplaying games because the player doesn't really assume any role, and has no real effect on the outcome of any in-game events. You're not controlling a character, but rather an avatar through which you experience and explore the game. It's a crucial distinction.

It allows for the player to be a part of the game directly, rather than through an intermediary, thus making Skyrim, for example, more similar to Age of Empires or Total War than Arkham City.

[krazeecain]

In batman you assume the role of... batman. Skyrim is much less refined in many aspects, but the one thing that Skyrim has that few other games can accomplish, is that it allows YOU to define and invent your own character. You're not batman, or some other character they made up for you, you're YOU. You can argue that technically in this case you aren't assuming the "role" of anyone but yourself, but the definitions of most game genres are confusing nowadays. Anyways, this is the reason why I think Skyrim is the best "RPG".

(Also, Skyrim has to be played on PC. Without the modding community, you're really only experiencing half of what the game has to offer.)

[Xander-RKoS]

I don't really get the first part of this article. If you hate your character in Skyrim...isn't that your fault. I mean, I love my character in Skyrim because when some higher force calls on him to murder someone, he's like, "yeah right".

The whole "doing quests cause he's told to" is kinda the player doing quest cause he's told to.

Batman on the other, while fun, is a pretty linear game and really takes out many of the personal (thus role-playing in a more modern gaming sense) out of the equation.

[SaffronCurse]

I love Skyrim..but it's unplayable in it's current state.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Better than Skyrim as an RPG? Looks like the NOOBs are out in full force *rolls eyes*

[Blastoise]

Dark souls is better than both

[EditorAtGNG]

When they make it for PC so we can all judge it, why not? :)

As for Batman: AC... *sigh*... how can one name an action adventure game an RPG is beyond me. Seriously, can't people read anymore and have the decency to at least learn what those terms actually mean (RPG for instance).

[Blastoise]

Why the disagree`s? Its just a joke guys. Dont worry I wasnt actually insulting your precious Skyrim

[pandehz]

With articles like this even the definition of 'definition' can change.

According to the authors argument I'm beginning to think COD is a strategy game and Fifa 12 is an action adventure.

[IM_KINECTED]

This is basically preference, it's hard to compare the two as they are vastly different games.

At this point and time there are so many publications and places giving out GOTY awards they've lost all meaning to me, I play what looks interesting to me and if games are good, then they are good. It's always tough ranking games you love, so I just play them, have a good time with them and that's about it.

We are all going to have different opinions on games, but we can at least agree that they are both good games and worthy of a play through.

[MeatAbstract]

*Looks at title spits out drink and laughs furiously*

Oh I'm sorry, its just a misleading title. Cause it sounds like you're saying Batman is a better RPG then Skyrim, which is a ridiculous statement.

Then you go on to talk about how your character in Skyrim is an asshole an such and how Batman is awesome.

Batman is awesome and its awesome to play his role in Arkham City. You can be whatever you want to be in Skyrim and you actually level your character in different ways for different gameplay experiences. You don't have to be the asshole in Skyrim, but you have to be Batman in Arkham City.

Ridiculous comparison thought because you're SUPPOSE to be Batman in Arkham City in an ACTION game.