PS3 dev makes for better 360 games? Burnout Paradise thinks so

Xboxer.TV writes, "I sat down yesterday with Nick Channon, the thoroughly nice man behind the surprisingly enticing Burnout Paradise. I played the game, and it felt pretty damn fun, but of most interest were Channon's comments on choosing the PS3 as the lead development platform. I asked him to elaborate on his claim that "development on the PS3 has made for a better 360 game".

Specifically, I asked him if he felt developing the other way, from 360 to PS3 might not make for such great titles. His answer? "I think you've seen that maybe. That the transition has meant people aren't always as able to deliver to the same standard, but we certainly have".

[Bonsai1214]

well of course. the programming for the 360 is like programming for a pc, which is why developers like it, and why its labeled as "programmer friendly." but working with the ps3 requires devs to utilize new ways of coding and basically makes them try harder to get a good result. like it or not, multicore processing is the way of the future and the way the ps3 is set up, its on the cutting edge.

an analogy is like cooking. the 360 is like having three arms. you can do more things at once giving you a better result. the ps3 is like having 6 "magic boxes" (SPUs) that you can toss food (code) into and the magic box does whatever is needed to prepare the food correctly. so while the 360 has more arms and thus is easier to just plunk food down in front of it to cook, the ps3 will ultimately give you a better result once devs get a hang of working harder and writing more core-oriented code.

[sonarus]

burnout was lead developed on ps3 because they felt they needed the cell processor for the amazing car crashes and also because of the open ended nature of play station online allowing them to create their seamless world of racing. I am a pretty big burnout fan. Gran turismo and burnout are my favourite racing games of all time. I heard the game looks slightly better on ps3 though at least according to 1up

[BenzMoney]

That 'cooking' analogy has to be the stupidest thing I've read all week! Thanks for the laugh. You might as well just say that deving for 360 is like washing a car with three sponges, and deving for a ps3 is like washing a motorcycle with 8 chamois and a midget. Seriously, wtf?

[Bonsai1214]

heh, yeah. it is a pretty stupid thing to say, but too bad anyone with any knowledge of hardware knows that its true..

[CadDad]

I had to respond to the cooking analogy. It was too classic not to.

I think it would be more fair to say this: "cooking" for the 360 is familiar like cooking at home. You know all the ingredients and you can kind of get what you want to out of it, without worrying too much about having to mess with the recipe.

The PS3 on the other hand is like visiting someone else and having to use their utensils and ingredients. You aren't quite sure going into the meal what you have to work with, but upon fully recognizing and coming up with a plan, you just may end up with something you've never tried before that has potential to be something you like better.

Magic boxes? lol.....

-CadDad

[gta_cb]

i have to say that CadDad's response was a lot better although im not saying you are wrong Bonsai1214. and yeah i have to say it aswell magic box? wtf! lol

[JACKRABBIT]

You my friend are a comedic genius. Thanks for the laugh. Bubble for you if i could i would give you six for that comment. Funny my friend very funny........

[rushbd]

I'll translate it for you. Although i'm not an American or an English. it's almost funny .......

"development on the PS3 has made for a better 360 game"

a better 360 game than the PS3 game ?? No
a better 360 game than a 360 game ?? yes

sounds complicated ?? Not to me.

----------------------------- -------------
Scenario 1:
------------
You create a game on Xbox 360 first. and than port to PS3.
at most cases 360 game will be better than PS3.

Scenario 2:
-----------
You create a game on PS3 first. and than port to Xbox 360.
at most cases PS3 and xbox 360 game will be very similar.
----------------------------- --------------------

"development on the PS3 has made for a better 360 game"

what he is trying to say is that, the xbox 360 game of scenario 2 will be better than xbox 360 game of scenario 1.

Meaning win for everyone. Even the 360 gamers. because they are getting (although unknowingly!!!!) a better game than they would have gotten.

I hope this clarifies the confusion.

[360Crusader]

Thats good and all. But just remember different
(harder, complex whatever ) doesn't always mean better.

[Adamalicious]

Man, I want one of those magic boxes! I guess I'll have to crack open my PS3 ;)

[Pain]

Agreed with Bonsai.

[krik]

@Bonsai1214

I agree multi-core programming is the way of the future but both 360 and PS3 use multiple cores. Each SPE is also a complete core, with it's one cache, registers, etc. It's a specialized core that is extremely efficient at vector processing and can be 4 times faster than PS3's main core at some specific tasks.

We know some developers (mainly 3rd party) aren't using SPEs but I seriously doubt they are using 360's triple-core CPU to it's best either. What you calling "programmer friendly" is what I call laziness and lack of desire to max out the potential of the machines (both 360 and PS3) they code for. Read my post #86 to see what I mean.

[Bonsai1214]

SPU's aren't technically true cores as much as they are "number crunchers" or in this case "magic boxes" :-p

thought they have many characteristics of being a core, they aren't. think about them like a virus as opposed to a bacterial. a virus is missing several characteristics that would qualify it to be "alive"

[Charlie2688]

More and more devs say this but apparently very few actually listen >.>

[C_SoL]

Mario:(I think everybody is missing the point that the developer was trying to make. YOu imply that the 360 games are better becasue they are being ported from the PS3. This is not what he is trying to say. HE is basically saying that by porting from the PS3 to the 360, it gives better results than if it was done the other way around.)

This guy read the words out of my mouth.

[Daishi]

I completely agree with C Sol, it's much easier to build to the known limitations of the PS3 and then port to the 360. And before anyone jumps up in arms about "known limitations" think about it. Known limitations are what you've seen from the console so far, RaC, UC, Rfom. Thus take what you know it can do and go that far then begin experimenting with going farther while the other devs are making the 360 port. If you discover anything or push beyond known boundaries it's pretty easy to pass this on to the machine that's easier to work with so everyone gets more game for there buck.

[DG]

Man Im done with the fanboy bickering... Like the article said if it makes the games better why not no one has anything to loose (although it may take more time to develop the game wich causes delays as exemplified with Burnout)

[Astro]

So, they work on PS3 to make a better 360 game? LMFAO! What a hilarious statement.

[Meus Renaissance]

Do you have any idea how stupid your comment sounds?

[remix]

are you okay?
are you taking drugs?
are you expierencing in unnormal activity
are you expierencing in unnormal sexual activities(masturbating)

[Ju]

Not that I think my statement would change anything, but starting with the PS3 will force you to consider a parallel design from the beginning. It should be easier to use this design approach and port it to the 360, while it might require a complete redesign if you go the other way round (and because some tools will bind you to the framework rather then to the platform/HW).

[Bnet343]

This doesn't go for everyone. Some people might think 360 to PS3 might be better and easier? For example Rainbow Six Vegas was 360 lead platform, and that was great on PS3 and on par with 360, maybe better according to reviews. I think it's just a matter of choice and how familiar the dev is to the system. But I just remembered, wasn't Virtua Fighter 5 lead platform PS3 and it scored higher reviews on 360? I'm not too sure about that, but anyway whatever the devs think it's best, they should go for.

[jackdoe]

Actually, Vegas on the PS3 was pretty gimped.

[Meus Renaissance]

You can't really use VF5 for comparison. It was rushed, didn't even have Online play whereas the 360 version had all that, and the developers even had time to polish the game.

[TrooGamer]

360 Virtua Fighter was based on the latest version hence the better eviews mate plus online.

[SKullDugger]

Rainbow Six on the PS3 was not as good, slower frame rate 30 fps colors were not as rich and it only supported 720p the 360 ran at 60fps and supported 480p to 1080p the PS3 had more jaggies and the ground and smoke visuals had pixels where as the 360 version was much smoother I have played both hooked to the same TV with the same HDMI cables and the 360 version wins hands down...

[ukilnme]

And this includes the undercover fanboys. You know who you are so stop denying it. PS3 Fanboys will agree with any developer that says that starting on the PS3 first makes for a better game and 360 Fanboys will disagree and say that the 360 is easier to code for so why should they have to wait longer for a game. I think each developers should do what they feel is best for the game as long as the game is good. Best case scenario would be to start from the ground up on both consoles but I guess all studios can't afford to do that.

[Antan]

R6 Vegas was 30fps on the 360, not 60fps. oohh quick, disagree! im telling the truth! HHEELLPP HHEELLPP !! IM MELTING MMMEELLTTIINNGG WWWAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Thx.
Ant.

[TheMART]

Hah Rainbow Six: Vegas on the PS3 sucked compared to the 360 version. Framerate issues, bad lightning, less sharp, less textures.

VF5 on the other hand is on par on the 360 with the PS3 version, and has online added, plus the C version (arcade one) instead of the B version the PS3 got.

[Omegasyde]

Actually the PS3 version was lead platform because the game was originally just for the PS3 with no xbox 360 verions in mind. That was until 2 months before the release of the game on the PS3 where a SEGA analyst suggested that the game go multiplatform to recover development cost.
Selling even more copies of the game because of it being multi platform was a smart move. Especially when the game on the PS3 was going against another tough rival which was half the price, Tekken 5. DOA was already out for over a year and VF5 had absolutely no competition when it came on the 360.

The reason it scored better is because its a better version than the PS3 copy. Its also a screaming example of how easy it was to port the material from the PS3 copy to an Xbox 360 copy. Add this with way more time to implement better graphics and features and you have a winner.

Any game that is a timed exclusive for a certain platform better have a new features for the new release. Its bad Business to do so, but unfortunately SEGA did screw over their PS3 Fanbase by not including a online mode update. Namco did it with Tekken 5:DR, why couldn't SEGA? I know I am bummed personally, but O well atleast the Xbox fans who have this gem can enjoy it online. I am not going to re-buy a version of this game however just to play online, but if I could sell the PS3 version for more than 20$ it would be worth it.

[Snukadaman]

hell..they barely told developers about rumble at TGS....at the time vf5 came out they had no idea about their online strategy.

[BruceLeroy]

Does anyone even play VF5 on 360? How many copies has it sold?

[socomnick]

I don't mind as long as both games run at respectable framerates and everyone is satisfied.

[Meus Renaissance]

Developers seem to be aware of this yet only a few seem to be practising what they preach. Hopefully this will change over the next few months, because its the best way to ensure clarity between the games and improve your chances of selling the game.

[Spike47]

the ps3 raises the standards?

[Lex Luthor]

Did you even read the article?

Idiot.

[greenenvy]

I'm really lookin' forward to playing my BRAND NEW splinter cell 5, on my sweet-ass brand new HDTV rig & doing co-op with my friends everywhere....

then moving right on into ninja gaiden 2, and perfect dark 2....
>:D

i dont look forward to anything on ps3 except metal gear solid, sadly splinter cell is just a far more cool game. ;-(

oh and also, can't forget too human next year and WARHOUND!!!!!!

hell yes, warhound + call of duty 5 and battlefield, 100' HDTV screens baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its going to be the multiplayer bash the boys up top dreamed of, along with the beautiful halo 3 >:-D

360 >>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>& gt; ps3 and is built better, faster, and with all the features to match!

[Omegasyde]

lol you are very ignorant.

1) MGS games have way better metacritic scores

2)COD5 is not coming out next year, unless you mean 2009? PS, its 2007.

3) Warhound is going to be great, but don't forget KZ2. I will probally pick up both, but I got my money on KZ2 because of the amount of people working on the game.

[greenenvy]

u know as well as the next guy that warhound will be better by far and codemasters new FPS game ships next year.....

plus if you want to talk rankings, which are u talking about?

the spinoff games in which we'd have to include the metal gear spinoff games too, or the actual splinter cells?

the actual games average higher than 90 on the meta scale, and always with splinter cell and pandora tomorrow. not to mention the original chaos theory.....

i guess if we count all games, then the metal gear games on handhelds have to count for getting 70-80 or below too....which means metal gear still loses ;-(

and loses badly i might add.....metal gear twin snakes wasn't half the game mgs2 was or sc: pandora's tomorrow.....

Edit Again: oh I think we need to add a few more games in there....

if we're going to be serious, we need to be sure and include the first splinter cell GBA and DS game, both averaging over 90.....

compared to portable ops which seems to be the best handheld version at 87....

and then, oops....we cant forget to add the metal gear games on the lesser gameboy that average something like 78....

then we have barely a tie, because once u add in splinter cell on the mobile phones and DS..........

splinter cell wins with the highest average.
http://www.gamerankings.com
http://www.metacritic.com

and metal gear games on handhelds, are traditionally plain **** so it doesnt surprise anyone who studies.....

and there was at LEAST one splinter cell game on mobile phone that averaged 88 or 90, so yes it won......and it don't matter

so sonybots, lets put this in direct perspective....

http://www.metacritic.com/g...

OWNED. 90-92 just the PC versions...

then the N-Gage version of splinter cell: chaos scored higher overall....
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

and then there's even the mobile phone version...

lots of people hated mgs2's story and would rate it a 7 compared to the more realistic story in sc1, which got a 9......f***** vampires, fatmen who run around on ***** skates tied to ****** bombs, a g@y ass girly spy called raiden who doesn't even deserve to lick snake or sam fisher's boots!?!?!!?!!!

is dat what u call a game? ARE U OUT 3 TRIPS SHORT, DAWG!

different strokes...

so where's ur metal gear acid now sonybots? laying at the bottom buried 6 feet.........DATS RIGHT!!!!
>:D

saying that splinter cell is as good as metal gear solid is an insult to splinter cell, its far BETTER.....and it averaged higher biatch's

u go with the rudimentary little anime washed up stories, and the rest go with the realistic battlefield of world war 3 stories hunting down real nuclear weapons, taking down terrorists, and saving the world....

in splinter...

SO IN SHORT.....

>>>>>> SAM FISHER OWNS SNAKE, EAT HIS DUST!!!!!! >:D

GIVE ME A HOLLA DAWG, IF YOU AGREE THATS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ri0tSquad]

there the biggest disgrace.

[Greysturm]

1)MGS 94 ---- original splinter Cell 93(giving the highest score average multiplatform much lower): Pretty decent MGs won
2)MGS2 96 ---- Splinter Cell PT(giving highest score average multiplatform much lower) 93
MGs won again by a larger margin
3)MGS3 94---- Splinter Cell CT (giving highes score average multiplatform much lower) 94
Closest one its a tie although if averaged you get the picture
4)Next gen mgs hasnt been released so double agent wins although its shoddy ports to different platforms would undoubtedly make it lose
5)MGPO 87 Splinter cell Essentials 54
Ouch mgs wins

So out of 5 categories where they could be matched in the main games 3 were win by mgs 1 was won by splintercell (mgs forfeit) and there was a tie(best version of each game) if we average the ports which i did not include mgs wins all 5 matches, there are more spinoff to be considered but i think you see the picture.

Dont lie fanboy MGS>SC in scores and fanbase.

Edit:

Nice try with the edit
Apparently everyone thinks different than you since for the remaining handhelds version of the game SC games actually average at about 60 while Mgs average at 70 something with its lowest being 69 for an expancion pack for PO ill compare two more games if i must.

GBA SC: 77---- MGS Acid 75, YOU WON AND DIDNT HAVE TO LIE!
DS SC CT: 50---- MGS ACID 2 80, YOU GOT OWNED STOP LIEING KID!
All this info is from metacritic go take a look if you must.
So in conclusion No SC portable doesnt outscore MGs rather the other way around.
Now i know why you are green with envy :P

Edit2: Any proof of this supposed 90? for a cell phone game? i highly doubt it. Even if we take that for granted the 2 50s still keep Sc scoring underneath the score of MGS.

SC has the most realistic story but that doesnt make it a better game since its storytelling dynamic and gameplay is considered to be underneath MGS games in general. Dont get me wrong guys i enjoy both franchises and if you feel offended that was not my intention it was only to prove this guy wrong and i believe i have.

One final point, MGS twin snakes averaged 85 not too shabby its actually the score for Double agent on the 360 (best version). People might have been mad for the deep storyline in MGS2 but the quality of the game and the gameplay cannot be denied that is why it was scored higher than your precious SC. Being envious is a bad thing but being Envious and a liar wont get anywhere kid stop the FUD.

[jackdoe]

That is pretty interesting. I guess since you need to optimize so much for the PS3 that those improvements in the optimization of code carry over to any 360 port. Burnout Paradise is using a new version of CriWare right? Hopefully, EA uses that engine for future projects.

[Bubble Buddy]

well some developers are lazy..not like insomniac, wow resistance 2 in 2008, a game a year for them, thats how hard every dev should be working

[bruiser81]

this is just a more creative way of saying that when developers make the ps3 the lead platform the end result comes out better for both systems. Is this really anything new that hasn't already been discovered and discussed? This is nothing more than a somewhat negative spin on old news.

Edit: I not saying the developer meant what he said in a negative way, but you have childish gamers who love to take things out of context.

[Meus Renaissance]

"So, Burnout Paradise hasn't suffered, but maybe, just maybe others have. He continues: "From our point of view, we’ve had no issues with dealing with either machine; that’s what I mean by that. It seems that some games haven’t always transitioned between the two well. From our perspective leading on Playstation3 has meant Xbox 360 has given us a great product."

I thought his comment was about how starting development on the PS3 first is a better experience for the programmers rather than leaving that as a secondary issue? But instead he's saying, when they start on the PS3 - the game is better on the 360 but he doesn't give any explanation to that. I don't understand the logic of that; does he mean better product for the game in general, or porting from the PS3 to the 360 makes the game even better?

[jackdoe]

A lot of things in the article don't make a whole lot of sense. Pretty bad article all in all.

[Bebedora]

Developing a game for the PS3 first is a win for the 360. That is, it would end up being less good on the 360 if you put the other way around. Not necessarily better than the PS3 version.

[FirstknighT]

So when a game is made for the 360 and ported to the ps3, it suffers from bad framerates and numerous problems.. But the other way around and the 360 version is just as good as the ps3. Just more proof that the ps3 is a piece of junk. This might be a problem for us 360 owners since developers are still struggling on the ps3 and we might end up getting a half ass game. I just hope the ps3 doesn't bring down the standards that the 360 has set.

[SmokeyMcBear]

*cough*Mass effect*cough*.. the poor 360 can't even run that awesome game.. when it comes to the pc everyone will see what the game is supposed to be.. and then it will get what.. 11's? sheesh. its ok to be envious first, you just shouldnt show your fear so blatantly

[Meus Renaissance]

Ignore

[TheMART]

@ SmokeyMcBlunt

You know he makes a point with the multiplatform games, and you start talking about an exclusive? Don't get that part. Shall we mention all that great exclusives on the PS3 that has several problems? That killer app Lair?

He's just right and you go right into defence with by the way a great game like Mass Effect, were some issues are named, but aren't a problem in the total game. Something that can be solved by some patches also.

Ah well as long as the multiplatform games are better on the 360, we see the comparison videos and that mighty expensive BluRayplayer 3 will be outdone. AGAIN

[SmokeyMcBear]

ahh marty boy.. nice of you to chime in.. actually i believe that exclusives are a true testament to what a console can do.. you know because they are specifically designed for that particular system, rather than not knowing what the hell you are doing, or tying to shove an round peg into a square box. About Lair huh.. oh right, all the problems it had, like the framerates, and loading, and crap GAMEPLAY graphics.. oh wait, the only problem it had was the controls, and that was a design decision, not the console throwing up because it coudlnt handle the game. Ah the awesome killer aps of the multipilatform.. you mean the same games that are redone over and over again with graphical improvements.. yeah enjoy those. But don't worry buddy, once people realize how the architecture of the ps3 works, the games will shine, and then you will get to pay another 400 dollars to get the next upgraded crap box.. enjoy that.

[Snukadaman]

lair had alot of framerate problems...

http://arstechnica.com/jour...

but your right about mass effect being buggy then usual..that texture problem is a biatch and I have only personally glitched out once. thats what patches were made for i guess.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

ok, I Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but calling the PS3 a piece of junk?, Actually I think you were referring to the dull looking old ford called the XBOX 360, you know the one that sounds like a tank and gets the RROD?, usually I don't say harsh words to people on here, but dude calling a PS3 a piece of Junk shows that your either stupid, or just so much in-love with your 360 that reality excapes your mind.

[PeteNY]

This sounds like EA trying to make up for last years disappointing PS3 games. The PS3 fanboys are looking to boycott EA, so they butter them up with illutions of grandure! The funny thing is, the game would allways be the same on the xbox360, not once does he explain how the PS3 coding helped the 360. the problem is porting the code over from the strong xbox 360 to the inferior sytem kills the framerate and lighting. The old saying is "If you can"t beat them with knolage, baffle them with bullsh!t!
I'm just glad MS took Epic's recomandation on the ram.

[bruiser81]

you statement is flawed, if the 360 was so much more powerful it would be easy to port over to the ps3. Power has nothing to do with it, they simply are not familiar with sony's hardware cause in many cases its the first of its kind. There is always a learning curve with new technology

below: Its still new to the industry, by your logic all new technology is a few years old. Im sure the Ipod touch wasnt designed in march of 2007.

[Xbox is the BEST]

new tech? The Cell was finalized it 2004.

[jackdoe]

Did you even read the article? Doesn't sound like you did.

[RRoDx360]

You are filled with "knolage"

[Skerj]

I don't care what platform, just don't screw up Burnout Paradise. It's one of the last few games I even see myself wanting from EA if they keep churning out stupid sports titles. Only sport game I play is StreetFighter!!

[Bebedora]

so have I heard numerous months before (pre-E3 talk) from *drum roll* Phil PS3 Harison.

[Xbox is the BEST]

the Power of the Cell.

[HarryEtTubMan]

Haaha like it or not this is the better way for developmeny. The 360 comes out as better ports than the PS3. Period. Unless they are really willing to work on PS3 ports. You will see more companys like Miday Criterion and Epic continue to use the PS3 as their lead platform because they actually care about making quality products on both systems... Yes the install base is growing a lot now and PS3 will be used as the lead SKU more and more over the next couple of years... also because the junkbox wont be here any longer than 3-4 years. It wont

[Genki]

I'm sure that the different programming paradigm for the PS3 can have some interesting revelations for traditional 360/PC programming. I know the 360 has VMX units itself, so I don't see why someone adept with Cell programming wouldn't be able to apply at least some of those techniques to benefit the 360. Correct me if I'm wrong, just my speculation.

[Ju]

VMX alone is not the key. It might help though, you have to design vectorized code for the SPU to use it efficiently, which can help to utilize the VMX units. But the SPUs do much more then just run vector codes (its still a complete CPU-core).

But I think the real key, and I have said that above, is that you have to be very considerate how to design what the game will do. To use the CELL, you really might want to think about how to break things into pieces, which can be executed in parallel - and how to save resources to make sure you do not waste memory bandwidth and you can keep data in the SPUs SRAM as long as you can.

These principles can have an effect in porting back to the 360, where you then can use the already efficient code and apply it thru the same methodology to a 3 core system. So, yes, that is how I would understand his statement. The PS3 will finally result in a better 360 version, because it has to be optimized on the PS3 already. It does actually say nothing about a superior platform. It also does not say, if they reached their limit with either implementation (in one or the other direction).

(BTW: Someone should forward that to Gabe..."all you do on the PS3 is wasted and can't be applied to anything else"...yeah, right).

[LSDARBY]

I think this is what all devs need to do, its better for them (they will get more money) and its better for the gamer. Why dont they seem to realise this?????

[supnub5]

see it will be easier for the devs to have ps3 as a lead platform, because the 360 version will look almost same, and would be ported fast, while vice versa it will take longer to port it to ps3 and ps3 version would be inferior, so PS3 as a Lead Platform= Everybody wins

[SKullDugger]

If the PS3 is so much more powerful then the 360 why does it have problems with framerates,jaggies,pixels and colors are not as rich someone please explain.

[jackdoe]

Just because you have a more powerful system doesn't make up for half-assed programming. For example, you could run a completely unoptimized piece of code a powerful computer and it would perform like crap.

[Bebedora]

you have to be through an operation and get that fanboy chip pulled out from your brain first.

[bruiser81]

because there is always a learning curve for new technology, and further more the ps3 is a younger system. 360 games look better now than they did when the system was first released.

[Ju]

Because single threaded, heavily GPU based code usually performs better on the 360. Also, such code, which uses the 360 EDRAM to implement AA will need a custom post processing (and that requires some SW skills), which not everybody has. So, either, they simply do not implement that (to reach their framerate goal) or implement a half efficient method which results in frame drops.

History showed, that only straight 360 to PS3 ports perform badly. But especially recently, it has been proven, that this has nothing to do with the machines limits. For those games, the PS3 runs in 360 emulation mode, if you will.

[bruiser81]

no matter if you want to play this to the left of the right, this could be a very posative step for the ps3, if developers can get better results by useing the ps3 as the lead platform both consoles win. I dont understand why this would be seen as something negative for either system. Better yet, ps3 fans wont have to wait for delayed games.

[belal]

IF the dews devlops to ps3 and ports it over to 360, it will be better ;)

[slugg]

Why developing on the PS3, the supposed "superior" and "more powerful" system would lead to better 360 games. If you are pushing the PS3, at all, then wouldn't the 360 port (the inferior system) run way worse? Instead you only see that the other way around-- games developed for the 360 first tend to struggle on the PS3, which, if it were more powerful, should have no trouble with these ports from an "inferior" machine. Okay, that being said, look at Call of Duty 4 or Assassin's Creed. Both came out on PS3 and 360 at the same time; both look and run just fine on their respective machines. Why? Because they made two versions of the game at the same time, not make one and port to the other machine like so many of the games we've seen struggle on PS3 (Madden, etc.). So a game designed from the ground up for a specific platform will look and run just fine. It seems that some developers, however, got caught in the same Sony propaganda that alot of fanboys did, in that the PS3 was supposed to be a vastly superior machine. It isn't. So porting from 360 to PS3 didn't have very good results-- they are very close in power, just acheiveing it in different ways. I think that the PS3 to 360 ports don't run better because the 360 is MORE powerful than the PS3 (one again they are very close,) I think that developers have learned their lesson that the machines are DIFFERENT and have different strengths and weaknesses, so they cater to each machine more specifically, instead of ASSUMING that something that works well on one (360) will work just as good or better on the other, supposedly more powerful one (PS3).

[darthv72]

When you take something like a picture or music file and compress it from its regular size you generally can remove lots of stuff you wouldnt have even noticed being there. So now you have this compressed, 90% quality of the original source, file. Now imagine if you were to try and restore that file to its regular format. For cd audio (redbook) goint to an mp3 only to try and be restored to redbook audio leaves lots of gaps in the file that cant be restored. If anything you get a crappy uncompressed version of a compressed file as opposed to the original redbook file. Pictures are the same way. Shrink an image only to try and enlarge it later and you get pixelation of the image because you don't have the missing data to fill in the gaps.

So if starting out on the ps3, devs dont feel restricted due to space limitations on the code. As they progress they can see how it will turn out and even know what they can cut out in order to make the game run on the 360. By going with the 360 first and then porting it, there isnt anything they can really do to fill in the missing space unless they scrapped the code and started from scratch on the ps3. You have to think what is easier for a multiplat dev to do. Most dont have the $$ available to have two different teams working on the same game. Usually you have one team and they work on both at the same time using what is the best path to program. Most likely that would be the 360 because of its easy to develop tools.

I think better games for both platforms can be made if the ps3 was lead because it would show the talents of the devs and what they can do using the 360 tools after having completed the game with the ps3 tools.

[greenenvy]

the DelaySh!tstation 3 also takes far longer to make one of its AAA games, look at the time its taking for metal gear solid 4.....

compare that to gears of war......and now obviously splinter cell...and its no contest

oh and 360 'AAA' games still take a while to make, but nowhere near as long as they take to make on the DelayStation 3...............

every single friggin' time.......and they say hardware counts?

gentelmen, what we have here is a BluRayPlayer with even worse attach rates than the original.......this is mainly playin' BluRays... all the way home

>:-D

[Skerj]

LMAO dude, you didn't just say it takes far longer to make a AAA for PS3 did you? Seriously that's a new low even for fanboy logic. How long was the 360 out before Halo 3 and Mass Effect came out?

[RRoDx360]

So how come Uncharted: Drake's Fortune looks far better and performs better than any 360 game out right now. And it's a 1st gen game. While the 360 is already ending their 2nd gen games without a learning curve.

[Ju]

Somebody should go and talk to Insomniac, because they could release two games within 12 month on the PS3. And, they are one of the lead developers with their engine for the PS3 (Ratchet @ constant 60fps - well, I think UC has more features, though, but its very close. Probably more visible later at Resistance 2).
I am very curios to see, how the latest UE3 (UT3) will perform in comparison. The previous UE3 based games did not deliver, but UT3 (which also is the latest PS3 engine version ?) seems to be on par with Insomniac and Naughty Dog.

[Skerj]

Yeah Ju, Epic has said that it runs at a dead solid 30fps with no hitches. Uncharted and Ratchet ran flawlessly too for as long as I've played them, Insomniac and Naughty Dog know something for sure. I can't wait for Resistance II.

[hardcorehippiez]

games on all systems gets delayed. have been for as long as i have been playing games and thats a long time the only difference now these days you hear about it a lot more because of the internet.

[40cal]

The PS3 is the better system. It always has been and always will be. Devs just need to get over the learning curve. Some already have.

PlayB3yond

In the course of these two systems life cycles the 360 will get left behind.

[Xbox is the BEST]

sure Sony fans remembered the hype about the Emotion Engine. We now how that turned out, the tiny Gamecube had better graphics that the PS#2. How can people fall for this propaganda again?

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

PS3 is a chicken; Xbox 360 is an egg

[Lucreto]

There are two types of developers.

1. In it for the money (EA)

2. In it for the challenge and the love of new technology (Insomniac and Naughty Dog)

Disagree? But its true EA is focused on 360 and just porting to PS3 while Insomniac couldn't wait to develop for the PS3

[Lex Luthor]

You do realise insomniac are 2nd party?
Idiot.

[power of Green]

" If he's wrong then we(360 fans) have nothing to lose"

Who's to say every dev that will lead games on PS3 will go back or take the time to add capabilities the 360 has to offer?(still getting a gimped game although the devs can claim they no issues developing on both platforms).

Who's to say this guy's telling the truth?, can anyone for sure claim the game itself is not being held back to keep the game on the PS3 standard? due to not wanting to bring the PS3 version up to par if the lead platform was the other way around.

You can also look at it this way, if the PS3 is out of the way its not holding back the game trying to match it with the 360 version( win-win, not holding back the 360 version for PS3 in a sense) although the game is being gimped in the first place it saves the devs the headache.

Everybody knows the PS3's not matching certain graphical capabilities to start with. Multi platform or not, so we all know the game is already gimped unless the devs have the balls enough to add what the 360 is doing better.

[gnothe1]

these sony boys will NEVER admit that the 360 is more powerful than the PS3 because sony said it wasnt!! the xbox 1 showed from day 1 its superiority over the PS2, then the game cube started showing it had more muscle. 1 year later an the PS3 still hasnt showed that its the more powerful system.now be serious sony boys, isnt it ironic that the 360 can run games built to run on PS3 SPECS but the PS3 CANT properly run games built at xbox 360 SPECS. now how do you explain that.

[Ju]

Played Uncharted, lately ?

[bruiser81]

as a former xbox owner i thought the same thing until they released GOW2, now that was a sexy a$$ game with very good grapgics from PS2 limitations

[PSFTW]

Ok now i am confused,if the 360 is more powerfull, why arent we seeing games that look better than hs,uc,motorstorm.Why are 360 mutiplayer games still doing last gen 16player matches with lag?

[Anything but Cute]

If this is true, then it means that in the future more games will be lead developed on PS3.

Why disagree?

If you lead develop for PS3, you can reach an equal result along other platformers. If you don't, you will have trouble porting to the PS3. So it would make sense.

[japanese_dawn]

The truth is, that MP games like RS: Vegas, VF5 and so on WORK BETTER on X360, and we all know why that is, we all know that developers said that their priority is X360.

I still don't understand why are developers even bothering developing for X360. I mean really, if (supposed to) the console X360 is ONLY 5% different from PC, why are they developing for hardware inferior console/s (in this case X360). If 360 is so alike PC, why don't they leave the console, and go make games that could use the full potential of the most advanced hardware and software anywhere in the world, on the PC. Do developers have a grudge against Sony and Nintendo?!

I guess this PS3 Cell thing is getting a little old, and worn out, but the facts are here. If you say RS: Vegas looks and runs better on X360, Sony can show you their Alpha stage of a little game called Killzone 2. I dare to say that game will look maybe better than the '05 teaser. From this point of view, no one can argue, unless they are just blind fanboys, no game on console market (maybe PC) can rival Killzone 2. If it looks this beautiful in Alpha Stage, how will it look on Beta and eventually Gold?! Godsend game!

It's been know that X360 is (how do I say this) a hardware that's meant to be programmed specifically for itself, and their games aren't to be ported that easy, which is opposite to Sony, whereas their console games are very likely to be re-programmed for another console, and still maintain some of the benefits that have surfaced from programming for PS3.

I know I will probably get much disagrees, and I don't care, since facts are facts, PS3 is either AS powerful AS X360, or takes the boundaries that X360 placed even further.

[power of Green]

I see games that blow those games out of the water all the time I own alot of them.

[boodybandit]

I would love to hear your unbias opinion on what games blow them out of the water.

[harpua]

lets hear those games POG, or were you just blowing smoke? Which is what the 360 will do if left on for more than 10 minutes.

[skylar2000]

Wait until they make golden axe on the ps3 and 360. Soon everyone will realize that ps3 is the worst system ever created. Give me some bubbles and Hands down to XBOX360! American Rules By the way!!!!

[Rattles]

the ps3 ain't a pc dude

[PSFTW]

Can a 360 fan tell me if the 360 is more powerfull,where is the lifelike animation,where is the motion capture game that makes me feel like i am playing a movie.ps3 have two games in its first year that do this,uc,hs.

[SKullDugger]

Ok which games are you playing that look like a movie? I would like to know.

[lucas107]

i seen drake climb a cliff in like 5 seconds how is that lifelike. he does everything faster then the prince from pop and lara croft combined and multiplied by 2. and why does it look like all his bullets are tracers. ya know ya cant see bullets right? and which game is like a movie?

[Meus Renaissance]

The only people who judge the PLAYSTATION 3 based specifically on the multiplatform games (ports), and thus dismiss the consoles ability or potential, are the blind ignorant ones.

This whole article is full of them. Why are they always camping on Bloodmask articles? You're ruining his submissions.

I know there are fanboys in this world, but honestly, it shocks me everytime when they use illogical nonsense to argue logic in their own right. For example, this whole multiplatform issue - we'll have people here who claim the X360 is more powerful because of that and yet you'll get a game like COD4 where each runs and looks exactly the same, and where are they?

Silent.Yet when these type of articles are up, they're lined up in their drones to post the same nonsense and disagree with anyone whose first line in their post does not suggest parity with their thoughts.

Sony fanboys are disillusioned with sales figures and market share, excitedly waiting for Sony to dominate the market next month or next year, and Xbox fanboys just seem desperate to prove their console is the ultimate in gaming and PS3 can never be as good.

[SKullDugger]

I agree with with you on the multiplatform ports but where are the PS3's first party AAA games? Lair was a joke and HS was only average please tell which titles you are speaking about.

[Meus Renaissance]

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune is amazing. It has some of the best graphics you can find in any game on a next-gen console.

Ratchet & Clank, is not a challenging game, but has some of the best visuals in the market so far and no framerate problems, runs at a strong 60fps.

Look at MGS4 and KillZone 2, how they're coming to look and even perform from the hands on previews we've had.

How can any gamer, how can anyone with eyes, fail to speak about the other side of the PLAYSTATION 3, when talking about it? Only when it suits them. I know the PLAYSTATION 3 has made it hard for developers to work on it, but thats due to its design, not its ability. Ofcourse it run these games, whose to say that it can't even improve onto them? Regardless, the console is producing great looking games, that have no technical issues on the likes some associate with it from the Multiplatform games.

Are we really having a debate about whether or not the PLAYSTATION 3 can produce a great game? Is that how low some people have stopped? The only ones who will say the PLAYSTATION 3 cannot make great games are the ones who are insecure about their purchases. That is all.

The X360 has produced great games, does that make me insecure about my console of choice? No. Does it there can only be one console that makes great games? No. So someone please explain to me WTF are these idiots chatting about

[SKullDugger]

Have you seen COD 4 for both consoles on the same 1080p tv. The PS3 version has texture problems take a look at the sand when U are in the USMC there are pixles galore the 360 version baby but smooth and look at the walls up close tell me what U see.

[Meus Renaissance]

6 months ago, all PS3 ports looked or performed so bad you could even see it in a poor quality video or a JPEG image on a website. Now with COD4, if you're telling me the difference has reached the point that some of the textures aren't as good on a large screen, on parts of the gun, then I am thrilled because it shows you ONE THING, and only ONE THING (like those developers who MAKE THE GAME from the original idea of sketches on a piece of paper), that ports are gradually getting better and better for the PS3. Never have I see anyone who claims the PS3 is sub par, or isn't technically as good as the X360. Because, its not true.

Who makes those claims? Xbox fanboys. When developers say otherwise, we're meant to ignore them and sing songs when a port isn't as good? Yeah, the PLAYSTATION 3 is really a piece of junk not worth its plastic, hey man it's practically out dated. No, seriously. What?!

If you need to see what the PLAYSTATION 3 can do now, go to a mates house and play Uncharted or Ratchet. Come back to me and argue that the PS3 cannot produce good looking games that run well.

And after 6 months time, go to his house again and play the latest games like MGS4 and tell me the PLAYSTATION 3 played it crap.

[Ju]

@Patriot. CoD4 is no match for either UC or R&C (even in R&C the worlds are waaaay bigger, textures use higher resolution and the particle effects are better. Also, both R&C and UC have interactive (physics!) animated environments (plants) - and run on a higher resolution [but that's speculation. I still haven't seen any prove CoD4/PS3 is 600p]). - Well, and there is nothing which matches HS cinematic motion capture - in game and cut scene - not even UC.

[Sevir04]

you keep bringing up Lair which tanked and HS which was great but short and got pummeled because of it's shortness, but none of whats on the 360 has matched the fidelity of HS's Presentation. secondly we can argue about Resistance and it's stable gameplay and well crafted design and unmatched online experience with zero present at 40 players. we can speak about warhawk with it's critical acclaim in online multiplayer thats also even out matched halo's online thunder and yet again it's you guessed it Lag free, and even looks better online than halo 3 does when. we can

talk about Sony's innovation with the PSeye and the Eye of Judgment. not seen on any other console but Sony's and is unmatched and unrivaled with, as no competing console dared to enter that space, even though it's a niche market.

lets have a look at ratchet, a game that runs circles around every thing in it's platforming market except mario galaxy which the 360 has nothing to show, and it's presentation has been claimed by the industry as Pixar graphics on a console. nothing has been said about the 360 achieving that and we can see that for ourselves. as it's presentation is flawless. and gameplay is smooth...

Motorstorm no game does what this game does and and everyone that tried has failed miserably.. and there still isn't a racer in the 360 platoo that look this good. and thats saying alot with PGR4 being the best the 360 has.

GT5/prologue: what Game look this real and plays and handles this well, Forza?. dare you gest? even PGR4 looks and plays better than that game and PGR is an arcade racer. simply but there are games you just try to hark out the hyped nes that fell short. as a typical fankid would.

and lest not take about inferiority of PS3, because No game on the console look as good as GG's alpha development title KZ2. denying that is just confirming you're a fanboy. and if it looks that good in alpha stage development, what will it look like at Gold what will the 360 have to show? Warhound? while it looks good, wardevil:enigma can have a go with that.

need we say uncharted. nothing looks this good on the PS3 and plays this well and showcases such emotion on the 360. no game has this much animation and time going into it. and it's completly load free. no fake screen allowing you to move the charter around while you wait for the game to start up or showing you do something while it starts up. ala Assassin's Creed. and on the case of multiplatform games we can start to note how all multplatform games have been hitting day and date with rival consoles and play just as well.

rock Band, GH3, Assassin's Creed, COD4, just to name a few. the learning curve has passed, delays are done with unless the dev see a need to delay, ala EA with army of 2, ubi with splinter cell 5, capcom with DMC4 from aughust all the way till january 08, and konami with MGS4.

you wanted games and titles i just gave them to you... simply put to get the best results start on the PS3 first and you wont have the issues of porting from 360 to PS3, simply put when doing a multiplatform Game

the too methods of getting the best is having two teams work on each platform and properly allocating your resources nothing gets short changed in the end. with that get masterpieces like GH3, rockband and Most notably COD4 from InfintyWard.

Or you can start with the PS3 as lead platform what knowledge you learn from ps3 can be properly applied to the 360 wHich is already easier to develop for.

[poopface1]

I have a 360 and believe it is totaly up the the developer to create awsome games regardless of which system. There is still alot of unused potential for each system. I dont believe either system can ever be considered "more powerful" than the other, they are just too similar. I dont care which may be slightly better because there are still crappy games and amazing games on each system. I just think its funny how many people went from saying the PS3 is far superior, and now its "PS3 is just as good."

[davez82]

we see halo3 or mass effect on the pc - 1 year

how long until we see uncharted or ratchet on pc - never

[Rattles]

bubbles for you

[power of Green]

Whats your point?, MSFT designed their platforms for max profit. Thats better for 360 fans not worse. They're still console exclusive to 360 and MSFT in general. lol

You must really like that kids platformer R&C.

[digger18]

ooh god, do you ever come out of Microsofts ass for air?

[Meus Renaissance]

I won't tolerate someone speaking dirt about my beloved R&C. The game makes me laugh everytime I play it, it's fun, addicting, it looks gorgeous and heck I play it more than all my other games.

I appreciate humour, I appreciate great dialogue, I appreciate great visuals and great gameplay that all my adult friends and family have enjoyed aswell. Ratchet & Clank is awesome. In fact, Uncharted will have competition for play-time.

But no one cares what you think about PS3 games anyway. Let's talk Mass Effect, baby, let's talk about you and ME (you like what I did there? ME stands for Mass Effect and also..me! lol)

[lucas107]

i enjoyed that. was like like lets talk about sex? i think that was salt and peppa...anyway ratchet was great but i dont like the look of uncharted the animations are great when hes walking ducking and so on but climbing and vines i think is all way to fast. and whats with all the tracers?

[xplosneer]

If you port code from a 360 to a PS3(like 99% of games, besides the rare like Oblivion) you get a good 360 game and a crappy PS3 game. But if you get them to work on PS3 first, it will take more time, but obviously they will work harder and may find something along the way. Then they port it to 360, which is probably easier than the other way around.

*Note I am not a programmer I'm just compiling what dev's have said so far*

[power of Green]

Its called reading you should try it!.

I'v read lots on the future plans and goals of the MSFT's vision they wan't lots of double releaes on both of their platforms.

They designded the 360 to be PC like to get great games on the hardware at the same time making double platform titles easier to develope and they will be pushing lots more cross platform gaming with PC/360.

You should be talking to the idiot that thinks this is a bad thing its either you or the fool that I replied to that has your heads up somebodies ass. Clown...

IT WAS A VALID REPLY TO SOME FOOL EXPRESSING A TONE THAT SOUNDS LIKE MSFT IS LOSING A TITLE TO ONE OF THEIR OWN PLATFORMS? LOL

[Myth]

But they would have to tone the graphics down for the 360 version or it will play Like Mass Effect, with screen tearing and texture pop in's. Or it might blow up the 360, then they might get sued like they did with Halo 3.

[TrooGamer]

360 needs game like Uncharted & Ratchet to appeal to a wider audience. Sony will always have this over Microsoft. Yea 360 has Banjo but what good game has Rare made lately will that even come out in 2008?

There is no point being dominated by shooters & driving games. Families want more look at the Wii. Casual games like Singstar or Buzz yea may not be massive sellers but bundle with machine your onto a winner.

Just my 2 pence worth. PS3 is on a very slow rise but alll Sony have to do is get on with it. Get the variety of games out then you wil sell machines.

Also in my opion Mass Effect just shows that ALL machines should have a hard drive as standard. The game is great but gimped by poor performance not even the biggest fanboy can deny the game has issues.

*Yes PS3 games have issues before some smart alec pipes up*

[Xbox is the BEST]

can't people understand that a newer console should always look better day one. When have you ever seen a new console have worst graphics that a older one? I've seen it twice PS#2 vs Dreamcast, 360 vs PS#3 That's why I won't be getting one till it reaches $199-$149 price range. Can't pay that much money for a downgrade.

[Genki]

thanks for the info!

[tony]

I'm skipping this one. next!!

[Myth]

Do you really believe the crap that comes out of your mouth. You do understand that those crappy ports that your talking about were not using any SPE processors right. Yeah sir those 360 ported games to PS3 were only using the Main Processor, so yes it's going to look worse next to the 360 3 processors. This gen is going to be different than the others. The better version of multiplat games will be split between the to systems. I'll prob buy a 360 next year cause i know some games will still look better on the 360. The ones programmed for the PS3 from scratch using the SPE's will start pulling away graphically from the 360. But there will still be devs that don't want to mess with programming for the PS3, to the 360 will go the better port.

[AnalFace]

lol....

[gnothe1]

MYTH!! just like you say developers arent using the SPE's of the PS3, there not using all 3 of the 360 cores either, so graphics are going to get better for both systems!!

an why did I get so many disagrees for what I said!! I didnt lie!! an to Ju, did I play uncharted!! yes I did, I have a PS3, I've played R&C an Drakes, beat heavenly sword, HAD madden 2008,play warhawk an tekken from time to time I also have a 60 in SONY (SONY)!! 1080p hdtv so im no sony hater but the PS3 isnt the beast sony said it was. I have both systems to compare side by side with my own eyes an as of right now the 360 is producing better graphics than the PS3.

an for some reason you guys keep bringing up kz2 an Mgs4, have you guys downloaded the movie trailers from the PSN, i know those games are Early but they are not the super great looking game you guys portray them to be, if you dont believe me download them an see for your self. dont go to game trailers or any other sites, get it straight from the PSN then talk to me!!

lastly, the sony guys love to bring up PS3 exclusives because theres not another game to compare it to!! how do we know that R&C,KZ2,MGS4, drakes wouldnt be graphically better if they were on the 360.we dont, an you guys dont either, but anybody with any common sence would see that if the 360 out perform the PS3 on multiplates it would out perform it on basically all games!!

[tfur]

Your quote:

"I have both systems to compare side by side with my own eyes an as of right now the 360 is producing better graphics than the PS3."

Please...

What game even comes close to Uncharted on the 360. Your comment is obviously BS. What single game on the 360 beats the textures, shadows, AI, and animation of Uncharted, and runs at true 720p? Uncharted has set a new bar for gaming.

And I do not give a crap of what a CNET owned metacritic/gameranking/gamesto p has to say.

Answer that question... because Uncharted just beat everything that has yet existed this generation graphically, and with AI, and with shadows, and with animation...

To others:
Trying to explain why new programming paradigms would help developers, to a group of people who have never programmed, is futile...

[Ju]

@gnothe

Maybe we're talking different things here. None of those games look bad. I have no 360, that's why I don't compare 360 games with PS3 games - simply because I can't - and that's why I choose CoD4, because I assume its about the same quality on the 360 - and I can compare on the PS3. That said, to bring back up UC, we should probably define "visual appearance" and "visual content". CoD4 looks amazing, don't get me wrong here. The 360 games might beat each PS3 game in its "visual appearance", simply because as of now it implements the better AA (in HW) and has the better (HW) scaler. No doubt about that.

But in case of UC, no game so far can match:

- The fluid dynamics (real water - CoD4's water looks good. But who gets wet in that game ?)
- Depth blur. Draw distance becomes very clearly blurry with the distance.
- Full rendered dynamic motion blur. Rotate the camera, and the picture will blur out. No fake frame based image blur.
- Full interactive environment (plants and water(!)).
- Quantity of environment (lush jungle)
- Quantity of animation and seamless integration
- Level of detail and their resolution (e.g. the huge rooms and texture resolution if you walk up to walls).
- Full content streaming. Not a single load screen!
- Amazing HDR lightning with a lot of changes from light to dark and vice versa.

Sure, these point focus basically on the visual content, the visual appearance can still match CoD4, including its AA, while running at (sustained) 30fps (instead of 60). The physics (e.g. water) is amazing, the AI pretty good (which I leave open because a matter of taste -its still predictable, but so is e.g. CoD4's). We do not talk about gameplay (which I still believe is amazing - but again a matter of taste).

I personally haven't seen any game on a console, which can match these points I have mentioned above. But maybe that's just me. So, based on that, I'd say, the PS3 is pretty capable of running high quality games. And that after its first year the HW has been exploited. I think there is still room, the also applies to the 360, but its amazing, that the supposed to be easier to program and more powerful machine reached that same level after its second year in its live cycle, while the hard to program PS3 has reached it by now. I don't know what it is. Either the PS3 pushes 360 devs to squeeze more out of their machine, or the PS3 is not that hard to develop for. So, again, I think the original statement holds true (even if seen in that context).

BTW: Just on a side note: The sales of the 360 (HW and SW) of 11/25/2006 (!) in the US matched about what the PS3 sells this year (same time in their LTD). Just someone wants to bring up sales again.

[THX7168]

And I'm sure 90% of those comments had something to do along the lines of Xbox 360 being better than the PS3. Typical.

[harpua]

any way you slice it...

PS3 > 360

[The Dark Knight]

good good, as long as everyone gets to play this bug free:D:D:D

burnout is my favorite car game since i dont like cars that much, but it makes up for it with all the crashes:D

also iron man dude, settle down okay , if it wasent for that awsome picture of iron man id go ape sh!t on yo a$$....but i wont cause i like iron man:D

it WOULD be funny if 360 was better though:P also was the delay of this game because the ps3 was lead platform?

[Crazyglues]

But either way I just hope we get more games at the level of Uncharted Drakes fortune which was just an amazing game, and nicely shows what PS3 future just might be like, some really amazing games.

So we will see just how good his game comes out, I will be getting this for my PS3 and I hope it lives up to the hype. On Xbox 1 the game was amazing, it was one of the first games where I actually felt like I was going so fast down the road it was insane.

So this will be interesting to see if they can pull off a great gaming experience on the PS3, because the games concept seems really cool.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[Snukadaman]

with your play beyond horsesheit dude...I always thought you was middle of the road...oh well..enjoy your games dude.

[Crazyglues]

LOL... ok, why do you take it so personal, what I put in my tag, when I'm talking about playstation I like to put P L A Y B 3 Y O N D because it looks cool,

and when I'm talking about xbox 360 I like to put Jump In 360 because that's their slogan, but really I have both systems, and I'm a fan of PS3 but I like my 360 too.

Why do you even care. I mean, does it really matter what I like -if I eat a rotten tuna fish sandwich are you going to go to the bathroom. Come on' Snukadaman let's end the war already.

All I was saying it's lets see the game first before we can say his comments are true. -but I guess you took it more like an xbox360fanboy and felt I was dissing you somehow. Player come on' You don't own Micorsoft and you don't get any checks from the system selling or failing. So just stop it.

Are you really that big of a 360fan that it bothers you if I Put Playb3yond in my closing. Seriously?

Dude just to be clear - I love both systems (yes i'm a PS3 fan because I see it's future and like how the system will let game designers take gaming to another level) But I own all three systems because before anything I'm a GAMER

I Love Games And I don't care what system they come out on long as they are really good. -Which is why I'm building a PC for Crysis - So are you mad because next you will be saying you don't know why I turned all PC Gamer... Seriously dude why does it matter what I like?

Seriously stop trolling and looking for people who look like they might be supporting PS3 for you to hate on them and just enjoy gaming.

If you don't like PS3 that's cool, that's your personal opinion. I don't hate on you if you just love 360, it's cool. It doesn't affect me in anyway, I don't work for Sony and I don't make money if they sell PS3's.

Seriously would you dis-own your Mom if she doesn't like the bread you like. Come on' player I thought you where bigger then that.

[Snukadaman]

play beyond...jump in..it shows you buy into their corporate bullsheit...I always thought you were middle ground was my point..honestly i cant give a half a sheit what your favorite console is but with that play beyond sheit it made me realize you spin on most things now...where i usually seen a posting from you and thought you was on both sides of the ball...but like i said..enjoy your games...theres no law saying your favorite sucks or nothing and I have my preferences...again enjoy your games.

oh and crazyglues..stop being a little biatch and calling what i pointed out you being a fanboy trolling..did i say your dumb anywhere or a idiot for being a sony fanboy..no i didnt i just pointed it out..stop being a baby and man the fack up kid.

[hotrider12]

i know this has nothing to do with revo racer but im sure most of u guys play nfs games but if any want to sign the pitition plz!!! do
pititiononline.com/nd4sp/ plz!!! dont hate or bash. i want you guys to make a effort so EA know we are dead serious.

[367 To Your Ass]

i didn't really care for burnout, i'm not even concerned about how EA makes their games, they know how to make 360 games run good look at pro street, carbon, and madden 08 for 360.

i have nothing against them on how they want to approach the next burnout, i had more of an appeal to other racing series, burnout paradise still does look good none the less.

[Dogswithguns]

.... just make some kickass games. plz

[skylar2000]

Uncharted? So what! It's not even close to mass effect, halo 1, or even gears of war which was release 1 year ago. You PS3 Fantroids are pathetic, shut up, admit you made a bad decision, and buy a 360. American rules! By the way.

[thornh]

I have the right to choose what I believe is the best product for my personal tastes. I chose the PS3, I did not make a bad decision for me. I do not call those who chose differently pathetic or tell them to shut up. Also, your exclamation should read "America rules!"

[Mr Marbles]

If you port a game from the "more powerful" PS3, the 360 handles it just fine. But if you port a game from the 360 to the "more powerful" PS3, the PS3 can't handle it?

Uh, have we all gone stupid here, wouldn't that mean that the 360 is the one that is more powerful?

[karlostomy]

I think you hit the nail on the head there...

Develop for 360 first:
- time efficient
- cost effective
- 360 great, PS3port average

Develop for ps3 first:
- Takes more time
- costs more to develop
- ps3 great, 360port great

so in effect, the author is saying we need to put the precious ps3 first, spend more money and time on developing and get the same result for the 360 in both scenarios?

Why didn't Sony just make the ps3 easier to develop for? That would negate the need for stupid articles like this one.

No wonder devs like to make games on 360 first

[name]

@ Mr Marbles

He explained it earlier, that downgrades would have to be made, but you wouldn't have to change the way it's setup. It's a differencei n architecture where one is complex and one is a weaker PC architecture.

[name]

And by developing for the PS3 makes for better 360 games he meant that you end up with a better game, which means for higher standards and better achievements.

[Mr Marbles]

We all need to stop trying so hard to believe in Sony, they said the PS3 was tons more powerful than the 360, MS said it was not, Sony bent the truth. The fact is, the PS3 is not designed to run game code efficiantly, it is designed better for running folding at home and simple number crunching.

If it takes more time and money to get console A to do what console B can do at half the cost and time, then console B is more powerful folks, that is the hard cold truth, make excuses and bend reality all you want, but MS has cash in the bank from this reality and so do developers, and that is what counts in the end.

[MK_Red]

The thing is this topic is not about wheter PS3 is better or 360 or something flamish.
PS3 is harder to write for so if a dev starts with PS3 version, it would be much easier to port to 360 since 360 has a more PC oriented system and thus much easier to work for while if they start on 360, they have to really work to port to PS3. They've been saying this in some time and nobody seemed to listen.
This doesn't not mean PS3 is better or worse or anything. It's a great point from one of the best devs on earth who made graphical wonders last gen with Burnout 3 and Black for both PS2 and Xbox.

[Mr Marbles]

and I enjoy your comments, but you are wrong, the PS3 is inferior, like I said if it takes more time and money to get the same results as 360 in half the time and money, that is bad, the console is weaker than the 360 in the same way the higher gigahertz Intel chips were slower than the lower clocked Athlon chips. The PS3 is only more powerful on paper. No if ands or buts, if the PS3 is more powerful, than Burnout having been done on the "more powerful" PS3 should be mind blowing and should be so awesome that the 360 should have trouble reproducing the same game. The PS3 is NOT more powerful and thus the 360 can do this game no sweat. The 360 is more powerful because it can run its own code AND PS3 code with no problems, PS3 struggles to do the same with games coded for the 360, it is not as scalable(flexable) and thus is less powerful.

[rofldings]

The PS3's new architecture has not even been fully explored yet, while the 360 is a PC in console form -> it will eventually become obsolete.

While, programmers find new ways to use the PS3's new architecture, better and better games with more realistic graphics will be made.

Unless you can upgrade your 360 like a PC, gg. -> PS3 is more powerful.

"The 360 is more powerful because it can run its own code AND PS3 code with no problems"

No, the 360 would not be able to run PS3 code, they are completely different architectures, please educate yourself before spewing out garbage.

Btw, nVidia > ATI.

@below...

Please. I am a PC gamer - I own a PS3 to play CONSOLE games, most 360 games worth playing are for PC, hence I see no need to own a 360. Especially with a 33% failure rate and a name like "microsoft" backing it.

"Unifed Shaders are the future Nvidia said that Unified Shaders are not the future but then they are making them now."

What's your point? Microsoft said that a PC would never need more than 256kb of RAM. Doesn't change the fact that Nvidia graphics cards stomp ATI's current cards to the ground.

[Xbox is the BEST]

leave these brainwashed Sony kids alone. Let them believe whatever they want. The truth is right in front of their faces and they refuse to believe it. They took the Blu pill and stayed in La La land. Unifed Shaders are the future Nvidia said that Unified Shaders are not the future but then they are making them now. Both consoles are not maxed out despite what Sony fans believe that the 360 used 95% of it's power already. 360 has better games, better graphics and always will.
@roflding ; whats your point? Your PS#3 doesn't have a Unified Shader it has a outdated 256 MB graphics card. And if you claim that you are a PC gamer then you know that Unified Shaders and Dual Core processors are the future. Am I correct or not?

[Snukadaman]

Really a great point of view and nothing worth arguing about...do developers want too spend more money too get the best product out of the harder console too code for or spend half that money and make the best product as it is...look at orange box for proof of that..took longer too make thus costing more money and with the consensus of people on here, the people are going too stay away from it like the plague...thus making the next game valve makes too seriously consider not making a ps3 version.

[Crazyglues]

I think you need to say it louder, because I don't think people here get it...

Thanks for trying to make it crystal clear, that it's not about PS3 being better or worst then Xbox 360, because I think the fanboys just read the title and all of a sudden got fire in their eyes...

[no_more_heroes]

its easier to take separate things and clump them together into one big pile or group than it is to take a bunch of things, split them apart and apply them to specific places. (If you guys are in the dark about what I said, it refers to the 360s unified architecture vs. the ps3s asymmetric architecture.)

[tomfoolery]

you pretty much nailed it in my book.
The 360 is without question on par or above par next to the PS3.
To argue with Sony fans on this topic is to argue with ignorance.
(NOT including MK RED and a few others).

EDIT:
To theoneandonly below.......................
GREAT COMMENT!!!!
You are the one and only my brotha.
I see you have one bubble.
I salute you!
Don't ya just love this Sony Defense Force site N4G and their bubble
system?
Don't you find it entertaining?
I know I do.
360 owns the PS3 this gen,period.

[theoneandonly]

First of all, anything that EA says has to be taken with much scrutiny given their previous repertoire of products......

Some of their games are terrible, some of them are nearly perfect.

Secondly, the Playstation 3 while it has a few good games is a far inferior product to the Xbox360. Americans and real people recognize this, and so they buy and brand the Xbox360.

Thirdly, the Playstation 3 has a very different architecture from the vastly superior Xbox360. It

Can't do unified architecture....

Has trouble running unified code streams....

And everything done on the Playstation 3, has to be done from the ground up, thus why his point stands.

Its not them actually pointedly saying that the PS3 needs to be the lead platform, its just a coy way of Electronic Arts giving the signal.

Each game needs to be developed from the ground up as an exclusive game and not a port. Because the Playstation 3, while inferior for certain games seems to run better framerate for smaller, simpler games.

Somewhat like Uncharted and Metal Gear Solid 4, the only impressive games, which are still short enough to be over in 12 hours.

Also, we have to take into account developers are far more familiar with the PC environment - this point I stressed to my friend quite clearly.

They know the Xbox360 is superior because of better architecture overall, and because they are used to coding for it for years and its nothing big.

The bottlenecks are smaller, a fact Sony fanbots seem to gloss over...

And then, when it comes down to it the system is removing its RROD problems completely by next year- while the Playstation 3 will still have them- and still break down, from time to time.

Sorry to dissapoint you, but this was propaganda and spin.

Splinter Cell the video game series, is absolutely superior to the others. When playing Metal Gear Solid, a chap I know actually laughed out loud nearly spitting out milk.

That's how ridiculous and sometimes plain child like the Metal Gear Solid stories are. The gameplay is good, but nowhere near the superior qualities of games like Splinter Cell or thief.

And it couldn't entertain even a grandma on its best weekend- unless they happened to be a Wii fanbot, or somebody used to Japan.

Like it or not, the best American and European gaming experience is found on the Xbox360- Gears of War and Call of Duty the series. There is nothing else like it, and the framerate is superior.

The Sony Playstations should stick to the propaganda, because its lies which got them in the mess they are in. And its lies which will kill the Playstation, if they make up nonsense like it plays FPS, sports, even RPGs better.

It doesn't- it barely plays them on par. Props to the North America.

[Naruto]

here is example the original xbox was stronger than the PS2

so answer this Why did GOD of War 2 look better than every orignal xbox gamesthat had been made?

[ukilnme]

Ninja Gaiden is my answer to that. I think it beats anything on PS2.

[Lex Luthor]

Riddick: Escape from butcher bay has something to say about that also.

[Naruto]

Can how can 360 run the PS3 if they are
completely different architectures, please educate yourself before spewing out garbage.

[Lex Luthor]

He means that games built on ps3 can be ported to 360 and made to run and look better or at least equal. While vice versa the same can't be said for the ps3.

[Lordimus]

This just gives credit to the fact that the 360 is easier to work with. You can develop the game on PS3 and move it over from that environment with identical results to the xbox. BUT if you optimize for 360 you cannot do the same for the PS3 without some issues or frame rate problems.

This seems to point to a clear fact that MS built an easy and robust system to work on.

[sniddles]

you sir............. Get an agree.

My god how people can spin this is beyond me.... hmmm lemmy give it a try...

since 360 can run what the PS3 runs with no loss, which is not true the other way around, it must mean the PS3 is more powerful..

yeah, it must be...... gotta be..... stutter.....<<>?>& lt;<>>>SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE>>> KO)IK<l...........REBOOT> ;>> POST FAIL>>>>

"Fanboy logic has encountered an error and must close"...

Well, it was worth a shot...

[Big Jim]

I couldn't care less which system is technically more powerfull and I couldn't care less what the technical specifications of the consoles are. Uncharted and R&C's graphics blow any and every 360 game completely out of the water. (Of course gameplay is just as important as graphics, but graphics are what everyone is talking about here.) So as it stands, right now, the PS3 can produce better graphics than the 360. This should be obvious to anyone. Maybe the 360 will come out with something next year that has better graphics than any other console game out there, but until something like that happens its pretty clears that the PS3 can out do the 360 in the graphics department.

[ukilnme]

Gears of War and ME can match anything on PS3 in my opinion.

[ukilnme]

Don't kid yourself. They all are in it for the money. No matter how much a developer says that they love a challenge and/or new technology, money comes in to play at some point. Why take the time to make a great game if you don't want it to sell well? R&C anyone? Maybe we should ask Ninja Theory that question. HS is great game. I am sure they wanted and expected it to sell better. So I guess PS3 developers will have to be satisfied with the challenge until PS3 owners (including myself) start buying more games.

Edit: Goodbye bubbles. I will miss you.

[SJL480]

ME needs patched, Bioshock needed patched, Halo 3 has a lawsuit over technical issues so shouldn't 360 be able to run it's own second coming of Christ first party titles before we start comparing 3rd party multiplats

God#@%& truth hurts.

Both systems are good but xbots can admit one game being better.

ps. F&*% BUBBLES

[leon76]

As a great fan of Burnout series, I just want that Burnout Paradise to be a great game, and that the PS3 version to be spectacular!!!...I don't give a sh*t for the rest...

[goldenxbox]

There is nothing out on the playstation 3 which comes close to the epic, incredible, flawless feeling of Gears of War and Half Life Orange Box.

Uncharted with an honorable mention does not compare ....

Xbox360 is one of the most amazing systems in the world, and I'm so happy I pre-ordered splinter cell for my xbox360 so that I can enjoy flawless online co-op against my mates without framerate dips.

That and some good old fashioned saints row, there is nothing else out there like it.

To me, these games are a gift from god and when splinter cell arrives its going to make my day better than any religion on mother earth....

I absolutely can not wait. The Xbox360 experience is unparalleled.

You should try it unless you're afraid of being wasted in Call of Duty 4, Forza Motorsport or Halo 3........hey maybe I'll see you there?

I'll be busy fragging my buddies, instead of worrying about some silly japanese game where a loser with a bad haircut goes on a quest to save the world(galaxy) aka RPGs. And then, I'll be suiting up for an adventure across the planets in Mass Effect.

Its true my fine fellow Xboxers, the Xbox360 experience can not be reproduced from nearly anything..... Halo 3 and its followers like Call of Duty 4, Splinter Cell 5, and Warhammer online are a gift that keeps on giving.

This season, bring the yuletide home with an Xbox360!!!!!!!!!!

[lou]

Watch what you say. That's like Say the Ford Pinto is the greatest car ever made. Boy you are retarded. Your insane if you believe that. Look up the definition of insane and see your picture.

[goldenxbox]

I can only give my hard earned cash over to the best possible gaming experience, that's why I preordered splinter cell 5, too human and ninja gaiden 2 already for my Xbox360.

There are just certain things which you must save for, this is only but one of them. Props to the worldwide Xbox revolution!!!!!!

=~=~=~=~= !!!!! =`=`=`=`=`=

[lou]

Too bad your system will not last long enough to play these games.

[lou]

Do you ever think while you are 2 hours deep into playing online while your 360 is just buzzing louder an louder. "Damn my 360 might die any minute" Well get a PS3 and stop worrying. There are some awesome deals going on right now that are way better than the trash that Microsoft is puting out there. So get in line boys and join the party. It's ok, I'll wait until you finish Mass Effect but will your 360 hold up until then? Maybe not.

[Neurotoxin]

I Have Magic Boxes for sale! Primarily Used to throw fanboys in, although i see snake has been using an early prototype for years in MGS.

Glad i missed the Flame War.

[name]

There seems to be alot of "custom logic" in here.

http://www.product-reviews....

The devs of Lost planet for the 360 claimed to have used 60% of the 360's power. Naughty dog said they were using 30%. When naughty dog said that, plenty of 360 owners said "They're only saying that because they wanna praise the ps3". Okay, so why did lost planet devs say they were using 60% then? To praise their game? To insult the 360?

And then there's oblivion. Oblivion was said by devs to be "pushing the 360 to its limits" and when it was released for the PS3, it STILL looked and performed better. And I REALLY hate doing this, because I really try to avoid these fanboy flame wars, but now people are actually lying. The ps3 IS more powerful. Ps2 owners weren't debating this with Xbox people last gen, why is it so hard to admit now? I'm sorry, I know this has probably hurt alot of feelings, but once again, there's too much custom logic in here.

[lou]

I agree I remember all of these comments and I had both of the version of Oblivion and i remember looking at the PS3 version and the difference is clear as day. Most people who say the 360 graphics look better are comparing bad 360 port brought to the PS3 but we are seeing that when you put a dedicated team on the PS3 version it will look better.

[Saint Sony]

I guess you have not seen the Game of the Year version for 360.

PS3 version got many more months of dev time and got some serious bug fixes done and engine tweaks. All the same improvements are done for 360 as well with the game of the year edition. PS3 version is no better looking anymore.

[Saint Sony]

I would say 360 is safe and sure bet, you know what you eat and it is fully satisfying experience.

With PS3 though, you might think because it costs more, it has to be great and you get some exquisite aromas for your taste buds, but in the end it just turned out to be horribly wrong prepared plate of fugu, you eat it, turn blue and DIE.

[Salvadore]

I believe many developers will soon follow this trend.

[sonyfanonly]

everybody is saying that the ps3 version is the best why cant you xbots get over it

[pornflakes]

I havent seen any comparison. You = stupid??

[krik]

Guys, I need to add just one more thing to this huge thread.

Burnout Paradise is going to be AWESOME on both platforms. Also I believe the guy is right about their development technique. Not because developing for PS3 makes better 360 games but because developing for PS3 FORCES them to completly redesign their engines for multi-core/parallel systems. Please read my whole post before killing me.

Think of any other 360 game with the following specs:
- SOLID 60 FPS
- Physics driven deformable vehicles and crashes
- Huge fully streamed OPEN world - no loading screens
- Awesome graphics (look at the pictures/videos)
- 16 players online (I think it's 16 but I'm not 100% sure)
- Will use 360 camera in multi-player (takes snapshots on people when they get owned/crash and sends them to the other player, should be funny)

I can't remember a single 360 with such good specs, not even CoD4, that is arguably the best I've seen on a 360 (I mean the best technically).

Let me tell you something else. But first let me remind you some details about both 360's and PS3's CPUs:
- 360 has 3 cores and each of them has has it's own VMU. Each core runs at 3.2Ghz.
- PS3 has a main core with 1 VMU and 8 SPEs (only 7 usable). All running at 3.2Ghz.

So, if I remove 2 cores from the 360's CPU and then remove the 8 SPEs from the CELL both CPU's become identical. Knowing this and seeing all those bad PS3 ports of 360 games with "some frame rate issues" plus added confirmation that the developers are not using any SPUs on the PS3 DRIVES ME CRAZY! But not because the port sucks but because I realize that the game was not optimized for the 360 in first place. How could it be? If it was optimized for 360's 3-core CPU then it would not be possible to make it run almost identically on a single core on the PS3. A game that efficiently uses 360's triple core CPU will need to, at least, make use of some of the PS3's SPEs to even compare. The differences between these half-ass ports are so minor that there is no way I believe the game was using the 3-cores/VMUs efficiently. It just can't be.

[Jeppe]

Developing for the 360 is easier cause it's old school. You don't need to learn much new. That doesn't mean games will run better in any way. It might just mean you get away with less strict and unstructured code and it will still compile and run with a decent framerate. Mostly only using one cpu. On PS3 the framework is more strict and challenges the developers to refactorize their code much more. They will have to identify and isolate different tasks more carefully. This will lead to more efficient and 'make sense' code that is easier to port to another platform. I believe even the 360 will benefit from this approach when it will make sure all the cores are utilized in this system. Even the 360 may have more potential than shown so far.

So it may be a harder learning curve but afterwards it will be easier to extend and modify this kind of code. Developers are constantly building up tools and routines they can reuse and improve later on. Soon it won't take more effort developing for the new generation. Sometimes it sounds like people here are a bunch of old guys that don't like new technology... Sadly it's actually most young people with 360's.

Don't forget developers complained about the difficulties with PS2 back in it's early days. Now we know it was only new and different. Same goes for the PS3 which actually is a lot easier to develop for than the PS2. (C++ vs assembler)

[jazzmanb]

If you develop a game on PS3 and then port it to Xbox 360 then there will be no difference in quality because anything you can do on the PS3 the xbox 360 can handle. The problem is when you develop on the Xbox 360 first and then try to port it to the PS3 is when all the problems start. The PS3's poorly designed hardware architecture has too many bottlenecks and it can't handle everything that can be done on the Xbox 360 in the same resolution or framerate. The xbox 360 was designed for games only and therefore it runs games very well at stable framerates. It wasn't distracted in development by blu-ray nonsense like the PS3.

[Jeppe]

Infidel...

[tk]

It has to do with the approach to programming for multicores. With the XB360 it is easier to port from PC's. But if you port from PC to XB360 the port from PS3 to XB360 will be better. That does not mean that the XB360 version will be better than the PS3 version. In fact the PS3 version will win easily.

It is just that the PS3 forces the devs to not program in the same way most are used to... So the funny thing is - if you want better games for the XB360 - then hope that the development will start from PS3, not PC.

Why did the PS3 versions suck? Because the code is was not suited for a multicore model.

[poopface1]

I love burnout. I was totaly hooked on burnout 3 and 4 till I got all the gold metals. I cant wait for this game in beautiful HD.

[solidt12]

The next Xbox will also have multi-cores so the developers might as well learn how to program for these systems because it is the future. Sony loves to be ahead of everyone else.