Arkham City's Online Pass: Our Worst Fears Realized

gamrFeed's Jake Weston talks about the recent locking-out of Catwoman in Arkham City using the online pass and how it's the first step in truly locking out games for used and rental players.

[swirldude]

You can no longer be assured that everything the marketers say is in the game is actually in the game (if you buy used). This will be the beginning of a bad trend for gamers.

[StanLee]

I think consumers will just be more discerning about what they buy. They already are, which is why so many great games get overlooked because gamers can't buy every game new and even when it's in the bargain bin, it's a fraction of the experience. Season passes, preorder bonuses, online passes; at $60, games are already expensive yet publishers still try to nickle and dime us. There are a lot of great games coming out, we can't buy them all and when we don't, they say the industry is failing. And it's the publishers fault. Rage, Gears of War 3, Deus Ex, Forza 4, Batman, Battlefield, Assassins Creed, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Halo Anniversary, Fifa, NBA 2K, MW3; all great games, but who can afford to buy them all new

[DARK WITNESS]

Totally agree.

For me personally, I don't like it at all, but the more I read about it the more I just think to myself, well I will just avoid buying those games.

I am sure it does not bother the dev's or pub that they have lost out on my one purchase and at the same time I don't need to feel like I am being bent over backwards.

I will just reward the games that are really worth it and remember the little things that make gaming fun with my money.

it's these little things that all add up.

[aGameDeveloper]

I can afford to buy them all new, because I wait to buy them when they are under $20. That way, I not only get to experience all the finest, but I still support the devs with some of the profit - rather than GameStop making all the money.

[MuleKick]

This is a horrible idea. If you can't punish the offenders only, don't punish anyone. I hate the used game market just as much as the developers but this is not the way to fix it. I buy all my games new but not always at full price. Patience is the best way to save money in my opinion. It usually drops to $40 in a month or two. Either way, this is not the way to fix the problem.

[LOGICWINS]

@swirldude- Not really. Budget gamers can just wait for the GOTY edition to come out and buy it new. This way you support devs AND get your game with ALL the content at a deep discount.

But it would have made more sense if Rocksteady guaranteed that everyone who bought the game new would get ALL the future DLC for free.

@Stan Lee- So true. That "40 weeks of DLC" being touted for Saints Row: The Third is a joke. I still can't believe that they're actually going to charge for the use of cheat codes.

[aGameDeveloper]

Seems I only needed to read one more comment to see my sentiments, before I made my contribution!

[princejb134]

even though is bad for us but think about the developers who put years of working on these games for us to enjoy
they need the money to make more games so its also not fair to them with businesses like gamestop who the developers don't make a cent from the used game sold

[admiralvic]

it's like anything else... something has to give. Obviously this example will be off, but look at Film vs Game.

With films rental is extremely common. They make most of their money from theater showings, but still they manage to have Bluray/dvd combos on release day for sub 30 usd. I mean didnt places have the 9 (?) bluray Starwars set for 70. I mean thats a huge difference.

Now you look at gaming and it's a mess. If anything fails; it's almost assured it wasn't because your game sucked. Yes! Even if you made Mindjack... it was Piracy, Rentals, Used games, or something else.

Ultimately these passes are horrible for the consumer. They come at a stiff price considering what they're. Taking a look at Bulletstorm you're paying 10 for levels cropped out of story and an alternate color leash. At 60... 1:6 the price being that pass is insane. Right now I can buy Bulletstorm for 19 on amazon new. That means that 50% off the TOTAL COST is that pass.

Ultimately I see these tactics like being a bully shaking down the weak nerd. They elect to waste resources on these projects to make them appear, but the consumer is ultimately getting screwed.

Look at Dead Space 2. That had an online pass for an online mode no one wanted. So it being bad made it a waste of resources, but then you think since a vast number of gamers lack a pass... there are even less people paying for it and down the road I am sure I can pay 10 usd for the pass, but have the servers offline.

Companies need to wake up and realize that not everything is another problem. All they're doing is making new problems. No one is going to support someone who forces you to conform to their rules at every pass.

[danielle007]

I 100% disagree.

The Video Game industry is the only industry that throws hissy fits and is actually PUNISHING consumers for something that everyone in any selling-something-new situation deals with. If you sell a great product, you will undoubtedly sell enough new copies. And if you sell DLC down the road, if people still love your product, you'll get supported.

But, every industry has to deal with people borrowing from friends, people buying used, people renting things.

I don't see movies being like "Unless you buy it from us new, then you won't get to see the best scenes of the movie. - Also, hope you're connected to the internet even if you bought it new, or you won't see those scenes either."

So, basically, now they aren't getting my money. I'll either not play it at all or I'll pirate to avoid funding this. This isn't even an online pass. This is an OFFLINE PASS. All I can say is fuck you very much, devs.

[vortis]

BS dude and you know it.

Devs don't even get a lot of money from the profits which is why Activision fired the heads of Infinity Ward because Greedivision wasn't paying out royalties. You can take that "Used games are hurting the industry" and keep that logic in your butt.

We all know devs aren't complaining as much about used games as publishers. All proceeds from Switchgames goes back to the DEVS not the publishers, so the used game market argument is fail.

[Flavor]

Don't expect alot of agrees from the self righteous consumer rage patrol. They think they deserve everything, handed to them at value. Entitlement syndrome, typical of spoiled children.

[TBM]

My copy is fully paid off so im good, but i can understand that it sucks for some. If these stores were to cut the developers in on a decent % of the used games sells maybe we wouldn't be seeing these online passes popping up.

[admiralvic]

Then it would be loaning to your friends or rental stores...
Then it would be piracy...
Then it would be something else.

[TBM]

Would those who disagree care to explain why. Is it that my copy is paid in full and i don't have to worry about some online pass, or is it my suggestions about stores cutting devs in on the used games sales?

[TreMillz]

everyone says oh we cant all buy these games at $60 a pop...thing is no one said you have to. Although for high AAA games it does take a while, there are sales, price cuts, etc. Portal 2 drop $20 like 3 weeks after it released, it was a sale i believe but it was quick. Developers only ask that you buy it new, not day 1.

[vortis]

Yeah because waiting for L.A. Noire to drop to $20 really helped out Team Bondi.

I bet Activision would prefer if 10 million people waited for Modern Warfare 3 to drop to $20 instead of buying it day-one?

Please, don't kid yourself. Publishers are greedy dastards and they don't care about consumer spending habits they just want their freaking money, PERIOD.

[TreMillz]

of course theyd rather you buy it right away, but they know everyone wont due to either 1.Heavy competition or 2. Financial budget. Nobody is kidding themselves. You used 2 bad examples. Activision knows their greedy, we know their greedy, they have no shame in admitting it. MW3 will sell right away due to popularity and is a game that someone would choose first when they...cant buy every game at $60(didn't you just say that? Shh he doesn't read well). L.A. Noire dropped $20 even when it sold millions so how is that greed...

[jivah]

@vortis if you get it new for 20bucks still gives devs a bigger percentage than a used game which is ooooh 0%

[Christopher]

***You can no longer be assured that everything the marketers say is in the game is actually in the game (if you buy used).***

Okay... how is that different than other products? And, like all those other products, why should the producer/developer care what you get out of a product you're buying used?

***what if your account is lost?***

Only way you could lose an account is for doing something that blocks you from PSN or XBL (ie against their ToS). Otherwise, there are a ton of ways of recovering account names and passwords. Tons.

***What if your console breaks down?***

It's tied to your account.

***What if the code doesn't work or isn't included?***

Customer support

***What if you share your console with your brothers/sisters/partner?***

On PS3, you can share the code with up to 5 accounts.

***Not everyone can afford to drop $60 on a game Day 1 all the time.***

Yeah. That's called life. Not everyone has the ability to invest in gaming as a hobby, you don't see any justification for them robbing a store to support their habit, do you?

Don't act entitled and wait for prices to lower if spending $60 on a game has that big of an impact on your finances.

***And the few times that people ARE able to do it...we only get 2/3 of the FULL package? Thats B.S.***

Bit of hyperbole there, no? Catwoman challenge rooms != 1/3 of the game. You can complete the whole single player game without the online pass perfectly fine.

***Why is the used game market frowned upon anyway? ***

It's not frowned upon, it's just not supported like new game sales because it makes absolutely no money for them. Kind of how pre-orders tend to have special deals tied to them as well. Is it unfair that those deals are only available for pre-orders and not after release?

***It seems to be okay when used products like films, books and hardware are sold but game publishers seem to hate used market with a passion.***

Actually, look at the huge push for digital media... it's the exact same thing. Used market is disliked by every producer, it's just that they don't have the options that software does of recouping from potential lost sales.

***But denying access to parts of the main campaign seems like it's going overboard.***

Neither Arkham City's Catwoman content or Rage's sewers content are part of the main campaign. They were added in in order to encourage new game sales and are not required to complete the full story of the game, only add to it.

------------

I understand having an opinion that's opposed to Online Passes, but the arguments being used really aren't recognizing that the issue is that both gamers and producers care about money. You find it okay to complain about companies trying to make more money, yet you don't realize that they are doing this because gamers have decided to go the route of used games in order to spend less themselves rather than being patient and waiting for prices to come down.

[P_Bomb]

Some very good points. Shows there are solutions and workarounds out there, buying new being the most obvious.

[vortis]

Total fail argument you have dude.

SwitchGames gives a percentage of used game proceeds DIRECTLY back to the developers if the devs sign up to receive royalties from used game sales. So, yeah, your argument fails.

Publishers are complaining (and continue to do so) because they just want more money.

90% of big budget games aren't worth $60 and if everyone waited for these games to drop to $20 to purchase them most companies would go bankrupt. Publishers WANT day-one buys because release dates are specifically associated with profit forecasts based on quarterly analsysis, spending and revenue. It doesn't matter if a game sells 10 million copies over the course of five years, if it don't sell several million within the window that investors were expecting the game to launch then it's considered a fail regardless.

Get off your high horse and stop prentending like the game industry is about having fun and expressing creativity. It's about the bottom line and profit margins and anyone who thinks otherwise is either a blind fanboy or doesn't know much about the way businesses operate these days.

[ljh217]

As a customer though, the preowned & rental market is good for me. It gives people an alternate way to play games without having to resort to piracy. On top of that it is much better for the environment (no pollution due to extra manufacturing/production, and no extra pollution due to transport and shipping).

The basic argument for Online Passes is "The publishers make no money from the preowned/rental market". Well thats not true because they make it from the very first sale. On top of that when people trade in games, they might use the store credit to buy a new game, which means it actually makes some profit for that particular developer/publisher (assuming the game would not be bought if that person could not trade in a game towards the sale).

A much more effective strategy for the game companies would be to compete with preowned prices of their game. If you have a choice to buy a preowned or new game at the same price, you would choose the new game. The publisher would then make some money from the sale than if the customer had bought it preowned. This is way more effective if their is a good digital distrbution alternative (something the PC market is way ahead in with steam). The good thing about this strategy is that it benefits the customer rather than punishes them, and we would be able to buy games complete (instead of having parts taken out).

Finally, EA (the current-gen king of the online pass) announced only making 10-15 million dollars revenue with their EA Sports online passes:

http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...

The profit from that after tax, XBLA/PS3 deductions etc. will be minimal showing that the online pass is simply not working.

You could argue that those games with dedicated servers just create a loss in bandwith costs. Unfortunately that argument doesn't apply to this single player only game. When it does apply (i.e. multiplayer games), where is my option to use P2P, Xbox Live or the PSN servers instead of paying to use the developers often strained servers.

[wsoutlaw87]

you are correct, there is nothing wrong with them doing this and will be unnoticeable for those who buy new. You have to pay to get things thats how the world works. Devs want the money from game sales, they dont want it going to gamestop or some person on ebay, you would too. Its not saying its impossible to buy used, you just have to pay 10$. Lol i love seeing the people try to justify used sales and act like its not just them being cheap and too impatient to wait for a sale. I buy some games used and still will, its not like its unplayable.

[Christopher]

***SwitchGames gives a percentage of used game proceeds DIRECTLY back to the developers if the devs sign up to receive royalties from used game sales. So, yeah, your argument fails. ***

Wow, used game service I've never heard of gives them some money for each of their sales. Now, tell me, how much of the almost $2 billion in used game sales does GameStop give up?

****Publishers are complaining (and continue to do so) because they just want more money. ****

Gamers are complaining (and continue to do so) because they just want games cheap, regardless of the source or what effect it has on the industry.

***90% of big budget games aren't worth $60 and if everyone waited for these games to drop to $20 to purchase them most companies would go bankrupt.***

They would make a hell of a lot more than people just buying their games used. If it wasn't, they wouldn't release GotY or best seller versions for $20-30 a year after release. They obviously make enough money on these low cost versions, or they wouldn't put them out in the first place.

***It's about the bottom line and profit margins and anyone who thinks otherwise is either a blind fanboy or doesn't know much about the way businesses operate these days.***

You fail to notice that I say this exact same thing. The problem is you fail to recognize the hypocricy of a person who complains about having to pay more for used games. You are both monetarily focused, so don't go calling it about just money when it's obviously just as much about money for you as well.

***A much more effective strategy for the game companies would be to compete with preowned prices of their game.***

Will never happen. Game A comes out priced at $X, then used games will always be priced at $X-10 or $X-15. Used game sales will always have a lower price, and therefore more incentive for the obvious large market of gamers looking for better prices, than new games.

[hilyou]

this stupid as hell! they should have just included catwomen's missions in the disc! instead of having 2 download it! wat about ppl who don't hav internet or only play single player games?

[smashman98]

I feel like this is the only valid argument its absolutely not fair for those who dont have internet and buy new and a work around must be found for this

[SonyPS360]

Not even that. If you don't have an internet connection you can't even access the full single player.

That is beyond stupid.

[zeal0us]

If you buy the game new this shouldn't even be a problem to most people. Beside the developers/game companies don't benefit from you buying a used game, only the retailers that sells them do. Whats $10 for online pass anyway? Also just read in another article on N4g that GS is putting online pass codes in used copies of batman arkham city.

[maniacmayhem]

Developers might not benefit but us the consumer does.
I'm more on the side of the consumer because that is what i am.

If a game is good i'll get it, but 60 a pop with all the games coming out i have to get a deal here and there.

And again i have to beat a dead horse but why cant the devs offer free DLC for buying new? they should reward for buying new. We already know they have DLC planned for Batman:AC why the online pass and not the free DLC?
And why should the video game industry be exempt from the second hand market? When every other market isn't.
Used CD's, used appliances, used books, used toys, used clothes and anything else used.

Thank god for used games, i found some great ps2, GC, NES games used from Gamestop.

And thank god for Gamefly, if i would have bought X-Men:Destiny for 60 bux i would have sh*tt*d!

[ZombieAssassin]

"And why should the video game industry be exempt from the second hand market? When every other market isn't.
Used CD's, used appliances, used books, used toys, used clothes and anything else used. "

Because they haven't really found a way around it...the music industry kind of did by backing things like iTunes. Don't get me wrong I don't like the idea of having online passes and such because I do let friends borrow games when I'm done and they do the same. At the same time though I can see why they do it, the game industry is a very risky business and every dollar earned is pretty much critical for keeping studios from going under.

[Jeff257]

But essentially what the Catwoman missions are. It isn't needed to beat the game. It is just free DLC included when you buy the game new. If you buy it used then you have to pay for that content. It isn't so much an online pass that unlocks a MP mode like other games. This is more a first purchaser pass that rewards people who do spend their money buying new.

[LOGICWINS]

"But essentially what the Catwoman missions are. It isn't needed to beat the game. It is just free DLC included when you buy the game new. If you buy it used then you have to pay for that content."

If you buy used at Gamestop, u still get the Catwoman content.

http://n4g.com/news/865599/...

[JaredH]

I liked Dead Space 2's approach to the online pass. It you don't have one or buy it used you get a two day pass to play the multiplayer. I know you can't do that for single player games like Batman but I think every multiplayer game with a pass should have it. For single player games if you buy it used they could just give you the first mission free for they're giving with the pass.

I'm not promoting online passes I'm just trying to say ways they could be better.

[Getowned]

you know 20 years ago devs weren't even making close to what they are now,used games never hurt them but now when games become mainstream entertainment and there seliing millions and making millions it's a problem ? somethings fishy here,thats partly about what some of these protests are about Government/Corporate Greed.there making enough money to run these games for years .if games were 49.99 i would buy alot more,I'm not blaming the devs so much but greedy publishers. EA,Acti,Sony,ubi,MS and the rest they are all greedy as hell,we need more free DLC and worth it dlc,not just some skins.

[Eamon]

The consumer isn't obliged to support the seller of a product. So there is absolutely no wrong in buying used games. Second hand trading has been existent since man was born.

But also, the seller has no right to screw the consumer like Warner Bros is doing with Arkham City.

[exsturminator01]

The seller isn't obliged to provide content to people that didn't pay them. So there is absolutely nothing wrong in withholding content from people who buy used. People have been charging for their work since man was born.

[Eamon]

The irony is that if it only does more harm than good. Most people who would buy a second hand version won't get the DLC because they bought the game cheap for a reason.

There are others who might simply never want to buy rand new from the publisher ever again.

And DLC can be easily pirated so it's not a loss for them downloaders too.

[TitanUp]

i haven't bought a used game in a bout 2 years and that was world of warcraft cause i lost my disk and didn't want to re download it,i know gamestop does not have used pc games im talking about amazon

[Number_13]

What if I simply don't have access to high speed internet or psn/xbl?

[Dart89]

Well your pretty much well i'll let these guys tell you.
http://youtu.be/J0TsaeE21rI

[sickbird]

just buy new, i don't get it. So you buy a game used and save what 5 bucks? cmon now. Or just wait like 2 weeks and the game will be down $10 and you can buy it new.

[turgore]

Well I'll guess I'll buy it new when it will be around 20 bucks. There are other great games to keep me busy until that happens.

[Robotronfiend]

I was planning on renting this one, but not if I'm locked out of parts of the main campaign. I don't mind missing Catwoman in the challenges and such, but parts of the main campaign too?

There are too many other good games to play right now. I'm not going to support locking out main campaign content of any game with Online Passes and such. Its one thing to support dedicated servers and want to recoup some of the long-term costs for that. It's another thing entirely to have the "Online Pass" block single-player, offline content.

Edit: If Rocksteady is so concerned about used game sales taking potential revenue away, they should take a lesson from the auto industry and figure out how to get into the used game market themselves. I'd order a used game from them directly if the price were right. If they offered me a trade-in bonus, i'd be very likely to trade in the old Rocksteady games to them as well.

[DevilishSix]

The price of games were artificially increased from $49.99 to 59.99 at the start of this generation. That extra $10 translates to an extra $10 to 50 million in sales when you have million to 5 million seller. That alone covers the costs of most games. So this whole used game arguement is crap. The publishers and developers are already making tons of cash if the game sells decent, plus they make more on DLC.

Why is the game secondary market a problem and not other products? Where are we headed? In the future if I sell my used car am I supposed to give a cut to the manufacturer or dealership?

It is just greed and you no who gets hurt? The consumer. You pick up your new game and before you even open it, it's devalued by $10, that's worse then driving a new car off the lot, considering you would get less for your game to begin with, before this online pass crap started.

A contraction in the gaming industry is forthcoming, unless this idea of overcharging is not eliminated.

[DARK WITNESS]

Well said. Bubble to you man, well said.

[raWfodog]

But ultimately everyone must remember, this thing we do is a 'hobby'. And yes it can get expensive, as some hobbies do. You talk about an 'artificial' increase when you can just as easily hold off and buy the game when the prices drop as they always tend to do with supply and demand market forces.

If you can't wait for the game prices to drop, then you must pay to play. As an example, I am a huge God of War fan but I just recently picked up God of War 3 for $19.99 on Amazon after it already being out for a year and a half. I got the same great gaming experience as a person who payed $60 for a fraction of the cost. And I got it new...

[Getowned]

I was saying this same thing like a year or two ago and I got flamed with hate lol yet now people are starting to understand when it's too late tsk tsk tsk.

[solar]

gotta love gaming hitting the mainstream. we get all this extra bs, publishers gouging and no thank yous with free DLC.

[narutogameking]

Well I buy my games new. I actually like to support my favorite developers. You should too.

[OrbMalmot]

Well sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
A video Game is a product. It can be sold back to someone else if you're no longer pleased with it.
Your favorite developpers have known that fact for the last 30 years. By no means is it something new to them.
In fact, they are just a link in the game industry process that delivers games every month.
No, the online pass is a new merchandizing strategy that tries to get money from the second hand business.

[DARK WITNESS]

i use to do that, but when dev's start doing stuff like this, well they stop being my favorite dev's so i stop supporting them.

[MoreRPG]

i like to support my favorite developers too but i cant always pay $60 for a game

[unicron7]

I buy new so I don't see the issue. What's wrong with supporting people that buy your product day 1/new? It's an extra reward for supporting their product to it's fullest.

Why should cheap skates get the same experience that people buy it day one get?

[blackhammer]

I like that I barely buy games anymore.

"Its on the disc, but we're gonna hold it back so there's an incentive for you to buy it new."

I don't like it. It makes sense in a publisher's perspective, but I'd piss on the idea if I could.

[Raider69]

So people that buy new an dont have internet connection are screwd too!No thats a unfair move,theres still 35%of people that own consoles but dont have internet!WB and Rocksteady dont know this?How long is the cat womem take in the game!Fuc% YOU Rocksteady and WB!I guess those without internet shoud ask a refund for the parts of the game they cant acess right!?

[blaktek]

Publishers sound more and more like pimps.

[MaverickStar7]

While this won't bother be at all, it is a crappy move. Like the writer said, not everyone has an online connection. Since this is not an online game there could be a large portion of the customer based that could be affected by this. They shouldn't have advertised the Catwoman part as much as they have if this was the case.

[danielle007]

I'm not going to pay for an online pass to play the entire game that I paid $60 for OFFLINE.

Go screw yourselves, WB. I'm not buying into this shiz. I know a bunch of people who don't have access to internet. They shouldn't have to FOR A SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

Seriously. I'll either not play this at all, or I will pirate it before I support this with a single penny. Offline passes are where I draw the line.

[majorw2]

So you'll go through the trouble of pirating this WITHOUT an Internet connection, somehow, but can't connect to PSN for a few seconds to enter the code included with the game? I see....

[danielle007]

No, I have internet. A lot of my friends in the area don't have access to good internet - or sometimes internet at all, simply because of the rural-ness of where they live. And it's bullshit that anyone needs a pass + internet connection to play the entirety of the single player story.

If this gets supported, it will end up a trend that SPREADS. So, I won't be supporting it, like I said.

[bunfighterii]

It's not my worst fear. Buy new, support devs and studios who make great games I say.

[Les-Grossman]

The only way these Companies will listen is if Games flop & do not make money. If they go even lower then this with the Online Passes then the Developers will be the ones that causes the next Game Industry Crash when people stop buying Games altogether

[P_Bomb]

It's a sticky situation, cuz they make no money from used game sales. Used sales have no bearing on whether something's a hit or a flop.

If the same used copy sells a million times over, but they only sell 10,000 copies new...that 10,000 means more to them than the one million. If a game doesn't sell new, it becomes a flop no matter how many million it sold used.

[TheMrMadzen]

I like how people talk about WB being greedy. Irony much used-game buyers?
1. You install the PSN PASS, which is included if you buy a game new.
2. The PSN PASS will always be on your PS3 and you can redownload it if something happens to your PS3.
3. You can share the PSN PASS on multiple accounts(on the same PS3!)
I like how they step it up to demolish the used-games industry. Get a job or stop gaming.
You are the ones who are ruining the gaming industry!

[Blink_44]

Totally agree, I'm so sick of people complaining about these passes.

[DARK WITNESS]

I am so sick of people supporting them...

[clrlite]

Me too and they wouldn't have to implement these passes if they weren't getting screwed by used game sales, etc. They buy a relatively new game from a gullible kid for 5 dollars, then sell it for $40, all at the developers expense. It's time for gamers to start supporting developers. You can find the games new online for the same price anyway.

[clrlite]

+9000 bubbles TheMrMadzen

Also, can't you just pick up the online pass for like $5 or $10 if you don't have a new copy of the game?

[_Aarix_]

you can only give 1 bubble ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Online passes suck balls. Developers were fine without them before.

[danielle007]

And if you don't have internet, what then?

You shouldn't have to download part of the single player story.

[GamerPS360]

@MrMadzen,

You mean to tell me that just swallow what they give you or leave?
This is how corporate takes over. Learn to fight sometime. You may sacrifice some but your children will benefit.

[earbus]

Getting eaten by sharks with false teeth sounds more fear inducing to me ,or drowning in the comments of a thousand whingers.

[impulse135]

come on guys this is a batman game who cares if u dont play as catwomen now if it was robin or nightwing in the story to play with then thats something to whine about

[AriesSiren]

funny how the guy(article) complains about him being unable to connect online because hes too far from his wifi modem.. thats just the dumbest argument i have EVER heard. go to amazon, buy a 50-100ft ethernet cable like i did for 7 bucks. its that simple people.

[OrbMalmot]

Before 2008
New game = 60€
Same title used = 45€
Entertainment : the same.
Technically, you could get 4 used games instead of 3 new games for roughly the same value.
Nowadays :
New game = 70€
Same title used = 58 to 65€ (sic)+ 10€ for full content
Verdict: sell your used games then go buy new ones at amazon for cheaper prices.

[kma2k]

i was preaching this yesterday & got nothing but disagrees & people telling me to basically shut the F**k up.

[Too_many_games]

OMG everyone! i have a solution...

buy the game new and stop being cheap bastards :D

That is all..............

[danielle007]

And what if someone lives in an area where broadband internet isn't available? So they have to shell out for satellite (way expensive, btw), hope they have friends not near them that have internet, or just miss out on that part of the game they just paid $60+ for.

Dumb. Maybe you live someplace where internet is cheap and easy to get access to, but there are people who don't - a bunch of rural areas.

[Big_Dom]

This is why devs shouldn't complain when people turn to piracy. Anyone saying just buy the game new are missing the point. The fact you are being forced to pay for the full price and still have restrictions isn't in the customers best interest.

[kma2k]

very good point! Screwing people is never a good idea. One of the biggest problems with pc gaming is piracy, if devlopers keep pulling this crap expect consoles to follow suit.

[Blink_44]

Pay full price for a game and still have restrictions? What?

[Big_Dom]

Jesus Christ, can you not deduce by yourself that you MUST have an internet connection to actually benefit paying for the game brand new to be able to play as Catwoman, and as such is a restriction? What if you buy the game and your ISP gets cut off for some reason. It happens. I wouldn't be best fucking pleased, let me tell you. Stuff like this should be on the fucking disc as standard if it's already made and available. It's just another scheme to milk as much money as possible. I reckon you were the dunce that gave me the disagree and all.

[Blink_44]

Shut the fuck up. I didnt know what you meant by what you said. Don't take it so personal. Some people I tell ya.

[Hatmantc]

yet this type of move is to fight piracy ...

[kma2k]

my god i just had a terible realization. You want the real answer all you non belivers of how detrimental this is goin to be. The used market is what makes these games come down in price, eliminate the used market or hurt it & even year or two year old games can sit on the shelf at $50.

What the devs could end up doing is like what psn does for some games, gives you 1 hour of gameplay & then makes you buy a code to keep playing.

Combine those two things no used game market & make all used games just a timed demo & serisouly all games ALL games regardless of how old could sit on the shelfs for $50 years after they are released. My god this is an actaul work around for the fact that digital only isnt ready yet since so many people internet isnt fast enough. This is serously a depressing thought!!!!

[GamerPS360]

I never pirated a single game but I might just start with this game.
Pirates are always getting everything they want and legit buyers always gets fucked up. WTF is this?
I feel like they are really pushing me to join dark side.

[clarkjudo]

Even though Catwoman is only 10% in the game its self. This is downloaded content with pre-orders and New or just pre-orders? Either way, it just does not make sense. And also to show off Catwoman so much as to make people think she comes as a playable character with every game rented or used? It's just wrong, only a cruel joke that the Joker himself could only think up to do to people. In this economy, there more individuals who cannot afford to buy New.

[breakdancefight]

Or a genius marketing ploy by the Joker?

[tarbis]

Joker is not the type to keep you hanging. He's the type that goes for the kill.
These publishers are sadist, they let you see something appealing then it turns out to be something you need to pay more, and they're expensive. Worst is, they'll offer you another new character to use in the future. (Batgirl or Batwoman anyone)

[optimus]

I mentioned this in a previous story but I'll say it here since it's more relevant...having to pay for catwoman does NOT stop you from finishing the game. You guys make it seem like you get to level 7 and you can't advance unless you buy catwoman or whatever. The real root of the complain't should be that their current marketing makes it seem like she's a playable character from the get-go...midway did it right with their latest mortal kombat as they advertised the inclusion of freddy kruger weeks AFTER the game was released.

[mechlord]

dude, what you dont seem to realise is that their m.o is fuckd up. online pass shouldnt lock 0.0000000001% of the offline single player content. how thick can a person be?

[optimus]

you tell me; again catwoman is NOT a necessity for the game the game is not being locked in any way. it's basically like the old games that would have you input a code to get a new character or weapon etc. except that now they charge you for it...not that big of a deal. unless you're the type that simply HAS to have it.

[Enigma_2099]

Guess what, new game purchasers? if the game isn't worth paying full price for... we'll buy used. If we're short of cash, we'll buy used.

[tickticktick]

Only people who work for these companies would defend online passes. Real gamers should give a middle finger and buy used anyway just to protest. Gamers should be defending gamers not publishers.

[Horny Melon]

Time to set sail for the piratebay....ARGGGHHHH!

[rob6021]

What bugs me the most is having to put the code in. I remember last generation 'DNAS' games were stamped with unique disk ids. Why can't they do that here, instead of making us put in a code with our controller?

With that being said I think the biggest problem they're having is people that buy game consoles (the lower-middle class) just don't have money to buy lots of games anymore.
It's a systematic problem that is going to really hurt things in the future if the lower class are not given purchasing power. I believe the trend of Paid DLC is an attempt to soak the people up top - the new emerging market for them. If things keep going as they are, free-to-play will be the new norm, that way the 'haves' can be soaked as much as possible.

Trying to fight the used game sales market is a losing battle and will only drive the prices of what people expect to pay down. Gamespot and company will have to account for the missing content/features, and once people stop buying at $5 less they'll have to drop their price till it sells. I will admit its a slippery slope, and a gateway cd-keys. I do think online passes work against piracy though.

[ljh217]

I always redeem through Xbox.com. Much easier.

[rob6021]

That's how I redeemed my xbox live gold card, went through xbox.com. It was much easier than using the console - good idea. Wish Sony let you do the same, especially since they're now doing online passes themselves.

[denero1]

also people say used game sales hurt developers quick question but do vendors get the game free? and then the developer is expected to make sales off of us consumers alone? or do the vendors also pay to stock the game?

wouldn't that be like already getting paid twice once from the vendor then 1 from the original consumer then you count dlc that every game just about has :\

[Pintheshadows]

I know this should really bother me as a gamer but it doesn't. I'm sorry. There is greed everywhere and with the economy in shambles I fully expect to continue for a long time.

[Kinglik7]

I disagree with Yi-long. If your account is lost or your system breaks down, then that is DEFINITELY NOT the developers fault. I also disagree with LOGICWINS. You don't have to purchase a game day 1 to get an online pass, you just have to buy the game new. I don't have a big problem with online passes only because those who intended to buy the game used money is not going to the developer. However it is wrong that Rocksteady publicized catwoman to be in the game when you really need a pass.

[Makarov90]

Enough with this nickel and dime stuff its getting ridiculous. Pure greed.

[Akhenrah]

Give me a break. It's amazing to me that people that are openly whining about a game still get editorialized. "Our worst fears realized?" Really? I think "our" worst fear would be a game that was a total disappointment, in every aspect. Arkham City is an amazing game, with or without Catwoman. So, if you don't buy the game new, you have to spend a little money. It's no different than spending money to run through challenge maps as Robin or Nightwing. Quit your bitching and sack up. This game is a marvel.

[urban0parkour]

Whats with everyone crying about how games cost too much we, are getting ripped off, $60 is to much for a game. Move to Australia try $100 for a new game so quit your whining. Also stop with the greed crap yes they are out to make make, so what? Its their product not yours so dont buy it, buy it whatever but dont act all self entitled

[mechlord]

@cgoodno

thats the problem with people like you: you were blinded by the false arguments of the industry and cant see the truth here.

first of all, im this case the catwoman portion isnt just some silly addon easily skippable of something non important. like the article says and you would know if you were following this title, its important to the whole game. so, if for any reason you cannot connect your console then you, who will be buying it new wont have the full experience either.
the main problem here is that OP began with online concerns and now its impacting the offline single player campaign of a game. that is the point no one should agree, regardless of how they feel about the 2nd hand market.
another thing you fail to realize is that you are buying something, not renting, so you should be able to do what you want out of it, without interference from devs, pubs and anyone else. you also fail to notice that the basic premise of this online pass is a moot point: you see, you buy a new game and the devs get paid. when you resell your game, you are transferring your online usage space to somebody else, not doubling server resources eating thus requiring more investment from them. they say second market kills them this way....how could it, if there isnt an extra person eating resources from the server and the 60 bucks includes server fees? from their point of view, it really doesnt matter. suppose I have a server able to handle 100 users. why do I care if the 100 of today are not the same from yesterday? there will be problems when there are 101 users (pirating) but not if the users are swapping. devs do mke money and get paid for the original sale. whatever happens to that copy afterwards is not their problem.
I tell you this: more and more people will be turning to piracy because of stunts like these. for the people thinking they support this, am sorry for you. all youre doing is rubbing yourselves ith vaseline and spreading as wide ad you can...by yourselves.
its because of people that are so quick to accept whatever bullshit theyre thrown upon as long as it doesnt hurt them initially or is well packaged...
thats why SONY and EA even went to the absurd of requiring you to drop your rights to use their stuff...and since it doesnt hurt you right away, you say its all right...i never do class acts anyways...but you fail to see where those ideas end up amd what the future will hold. same with on disc dlc...ppl just say oh, its just 3 bucks, no biggie...because theyre narrow minded and cannot see what that can cause in the future. youre acting so high amd mighty but imagine that something like problems with your isp that prevent you from going online. right now is a character. whar would it be next? a shooter that requires online pass to activate the reload function...no worries, you can still shoot and you can still hand to hand...but then all maps require a sniper to progress.

[denero1]

well said sir, well said

[Horny Melon]

Lets also not forget what online pass has morphed into with COD and BF. You now have a monthly fee to access for NEW games.

[TheWolverine]

I like how a lot of people say, " What happens if u dont have internet?" Get it, or don't. If u dont have it, thats a personal choice on your part. But obviously u are somewhere to get online to complain. One way or the other, people will always find something to complain about. Also, Gamestop is printing the code for the Catwoman DLC on the receipt for all USED copies of the game. So even if u wait 6 months and still buy it used at Gamestop, you'll still be able to get it free. I dont care if u wait or buy day 1, it will always be possible to get it down the line somehow.

[Bolts]

Thats fine. There's a ton of games to play this year, and when I do buy this game it will be from Steam for $10 in about 3 months after release. Take your online pass and shove it.

[MasterD919]

Ehhh...whatever

I'm buying it new. Doesn't really bother me as much as other games either. It's like Mass Effect- you couldn't get Zaeed without that pass as well.

[Bolts]

Zaeed isn't Catwomen. You can play the entire game without Zaeed and wouldn't even notice the difference.

[MasterD919]

I'm buying it new and don't see why anyone who really wants to get their hands on this wouldn't just buy it now. Catwoman is a major character who comes free with a new version. You end up paying for her one way or another if you want her.

People will wait until this game hits $30 and will still get bent out of shape when they buy a $10 pass...You'll still pay less than you would new. I pre-ordered this for two reasons...

1) Arkham Asylum is still between $20-25 new so don't expect Arkham City to be below that down the road. I believe it won't decrease significantly for a while.

2) I'm getting Arkham Asylum GOTY & Arkham City in a combo deal so its a win-win for me as I've never bought/played the full AA game before.

[Heishiro__Mitsurugi]

I swear its getting to a point where legislation needs to stop these devs from nikel and diming every penny off us! its getting out of hand.

[SnukaTheMan]

Buy it new......sorry but there should be some games you buy new..this is one of them.

[dougr]

Guess which game I am going to download off of filesonic. This online pass is worse than EA's for sports titles. I'm definitely not giving a dime to this company for using an online pass to lock out single player.

[breakdancefight]

And you are the reason a online pass is needed.

[dougr]

Actually I'm not, and online pass in this way, is not going to keep any pirate from being able to get the content. I was going to buy the game, and in all honesty I'm not going to pirate it, I'm going to wait until around Christmas time and wait for Steam to discount it to $20ish. I planned on buying it day 1 but I do not support stuff like this, and Batman isn't something I need, so I can easily just ignore it due to their stupidity. Saints Row 3 and Oblivion come out the following weeks, so I will be just fine skipping out on this.

[SilentSnake]

I believe the online passes could work,but not the way it's being implemented now. I'm the oldest of four brothers who each have their own xbox live account on two Xbox consoles, and every time one of these online pass things come out I have to decide who's turn it is to use it. Frankly, besides school and sports, we love our games. One of my brothers had hundreds of hours poured into Oblivion and Fallout, so who am I to take away his Xbox, his little setup that has everything the way he wants it, to play content that I shouldn't jumping through hurdles to get to. Sure, maybe I can recover my account to his Xbox and make him play on mine while I play, but that is totally unfair to me and my brothers. Would that even work? I don't know....

[majorw2]

Should have gotten PS3's since you could share the online pass with 5 accounts. Your choice, you chose your platform. Just sayin'

[SilentSnake]

I do have a PS3. I love Metal Gear and the Uncharted series, but I only have one PS3. I bought another Xbox because all of our friends have Xbox consoles, and Xbox live is leaps and bounds better than the PS Network. Your advice doesn't contribute to fixing the problem, so stop being so condescending.

[TVippy]

During the development they constantly said 15% (catwoman), now it's only 10. O_o

[breakdancefight]

What is worse as a consumer to be forced to come up with an additional $5.00 dollars at the point of sale or only getting $18.00-$23.00 dollars credit 24 hours after you purchased the game?

[Bladesfist]

N4G, Pc Gaming is piracy, it sucks
N4G, used games rock!

[hot111]

Gamestop used copies will come with online pass,hahaha

Killing used sales?More like milking existing consumers
Total fail

[Dfooster]

What these publishers fail to realize is that the second hand market is a good way to get your product seen by what I call the second tier gamers. The first tier gamers are those who have been trawling the Internet for news snippets and info and are going to buy it on day one for full price anyway.

Tier two buyers who are those who may take a chance on a game they have heard good things about if it's at a second hand price, and thus if they enjoyed it pass on the word of mouth to tier three buyers (totally out of touch gamers) if you like.

I was a tier two buyer of AA but due to how good it was I will be buying AC on day one moving up the pyramid if you like.

All this online pass stuff just means people will skip past AC in the second hand shops and pick up any number of other top titles where they are getting the full experience., and when arkham three is released their user base won't have naturally increased but stagnated resulting in the same loss of revenue as they lose from the second hand market but with a much lower user base to draw upon than they could have had without this online pass nonsense.

They are essentially cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Without a growing fanbase and a tired formula it's bye bye to that particular game franchise.

[iliimaster]

well said

[razrye]

well it looks like piracy is going to be booming

[Kos-Mos]

I`ll pass this game to finsih Dark Souls three more times.

[denero1]

They get greedy and it feels as if its every company getting greedy. As bad as the economy is these companies insist on asking for more and more money they don't work with us or try to bring down the price. they bring out dlc and online passes to further dig into the pockets of a already failing economy and I hear support the dev's we are supporting them other wise there wouldn't be a sequel. the devs are well off, way better then us for sure.

If you are making a sequel this means the first title must have did well to have a sequel produced do you really need to put all these codes and restrictions into a game you know will do well its just greed plain and simple

[iliimaster]

games like this just makes me wait till the goty edition or when its sales are so poor it drops to 40 bucks how in the heck can you charge pretty much with tax 70 bucks with an unfinished game that will be whole after they gut you with DLC after DLC then throw in a online pass the only way to stop this from spreading to everygame developed in ps4 and the new xbox is just not to buy the damn game and wait till price drops thats the ONLY message us gamers can get across that will actually make them re consider

[NotSoSilentBob]

And there goes another game off my to get list.

[XIIIWARRIOR41]

The only way Gamers can be heard is to stop buying games period! Online passes and DLC announced way before the game is released only shows that they either took out an important part of the game that's finished or decided not to add a character here or there to just milk the supporters, us gamers! Don't buy their product, they're hear ya real fast!

[EverydayGuy]

You have to draw the line somewhere, if you don't they will keep doing it. We need to nip this in the but before it gets out of hand.

[ShaunCameron]

It doesn't bother me, because I don't care for DLC or online multiplayer. I hope posters realize that there's a lot of console-owners who do have internet access who don't care about all that. They just care about the main single-player campaign and that's it.