Rage takes 21-22GB of disc space when installed on the Xbox 360

GB writes : John Carmack had a lot to say at this year’s QuakeCon. He almost talked for 90 mins without taking a break, but we know he can do that. However, he also revealed a lot of important information about Rage, and some things that flew past our head.

[ArcFatalix]

Not a big deal, 250GB ftw

[Godmars290]

But what did you start off with?

Heck, ID's been taking this game up since the 360 only came with a 40GB HDD.

[malol]

i dont know why
but i got almost no hype for this game
even tho im sure it'll be a good game

but i cant see the hype and why . is it because of the graphics and scale ??

and that's only me so idk about you guys

[JellyJelly]

Godmars290 - It's not a mandatory install though.

L.A Noire was 18gb if I remember correctly. I always install games to get a smoother experience and reduce wear and tear on the laser.

[beavis4play]

i agree malol. it looks like it could be fun - but i'll be waiting for the price to drop to 20 dollars on amazon..... same for skyrim. the fall of this year is full (for me) with BO zombie killing, resistance3, journey, dark souls, and uncharted3. '

at jellyjelly - interesting......i never knew why people installed games on consoles. bubbles.

[gamingdroid]

The laser is the single biggest point of failure for consoles in general, so I make it a habit to install most games.

On the Xbox 360 S, it runs so quiet without any disc spinning so I don't mind the 10 minute up front wait for the short install.

[Godmars290]

I only asked a question and stated a fact. The game engine behind this game was suppose to revolutionize this console gen, but the way things look now it wont be used for other games until next gen. And those games are going to be FPS, something I got tired of seeing a while ago.

@beavis4play:
For the 360 its become an option that allows for smoother gameplay while its often mandatory on the PS3 and used as excuse to poke fun at it by the 360 camp. This while they've always towed MS PR line about not needing a HD disc format for gaming. With the issue effectively being sidestepped with the install option and larger capacity HDD than the 360 started with.

@Ardorme:
"He knows game development better than anyone else in the industry."

And that's why there was no ducktape for the flashlight in Doom 3?

Just because the man got his start at the beginning of the genera does not make him a gaming god, nor everything he does perfect.

[Electroshocked]

@malol I've been feeling a lot of hype recently, I think this game is going to be amazing.

[fr0sty]

too bad for those who bought a 4GB or 20GB model... guess they gotta pay for an overpriced proprietary hard drive now unless they want to have to switch discs and deal with greater texture pop in.

[gamingdroid]

"too bad for those who bought a 4GB or 20GB model... guess they gotta pay for an overpriced proprietary hard drive now unless they want to have to switch discs"

It's called options, besides switching a disc every couple of hours is hardly an issue unless you are so sedentary, that distance would be though for you.

"and deal with greater texture pop in."

Yes, you don't tend to get the benefit of something you didn't pay for i.e. a hard drive, but FYI as Carmack said, the Blu-Ray drive on PS3 has higher latency.

Your best bet then is to get the PC version, it sidesteps all issues.

[jeseth]

I love the double standard that we hear in this comment board.

When a PS3 game has a 3-5GB people trash the PS3 for having installs.

But when 360 owners install a game on their HDD to have a "better/smoother/faster&q uot; experience it isn't a big deal.

It seems like people only rag on this when it is convenient for their argument.

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

What I find ironic is, the same people who complain about getting up to switch a disc, are the same people who are against digital downloads. To put it in another perspective: I'm all for digital downloads for retail games because that means I won't have to get up to switch a disc. I can just quick launch the game from my game library. When all my disc games are available for download, I'll probably repurchase them just for that convenience. Most games are around 7 gigs, so I don't find it hurting me in any specific way.

[WetN00dle69]

@fr0sty

I want to see an actual 360 game play video that show this so called Texture popin's. If none is provided then that only means that you are only talking out of your A. As for the disk changing. I see nothing wrong with this. Never have. God i tell you i fear for this countries future. Too many damn lazy people!

[darthv72]

the hardware specs of the ps3 and 360 were more alike than they were different. The only major difference is the media capacity.

Now if you take out the media format from the picture you see they can be equally powered in many ways. This game, regardless of the size is being made to take the best of the best of both platforms.

Thanks to optional installs, the media format issue doesnt seem to be as much of an issue anymore. Even if you dont install, swapping discs was never a problem before but so many are spoiled to think that they shouldnt have to do that anymore. Those are the ones forgetting where they came from and that it was all about the game not the disc or cartridge it came on.

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

@Jeseth, it's optional, that's where in the difference lies between the 360 and Ps3.

[starchild]

Let's put this in perspective. The vast majority of games this generation fit just fine on one disc. The few that come on multiple discs simply require you to get up and spend 15 seconds switching a disc. So where again is the problem?

I don't get it. A handful of games out of the hundreds of available games require that you spend a couple seconds every 8 hours to switch a disc. Oh, the agony!

Installs aren't really a problem either. I do them all the time for my PC games. Then again, I get a lot of benefits by playing on the PC: much shorter load times, better graphics, better performance, and more flexibility.

I think the thing that some people don't understand is that the PS3 often has mandatory installs that do nothing more than allow those PS3 versions to perform as good as their 360 counterparts. So you are being forced to partially install a game to get performance that is often no better than what you can get on the competing platform without forced installs.

The 360 installs, on the other hand, are completely optional and DO give you benefits above and beyond that baseline performance. That is the difference.

[Blaze929]

uh...when was there a 40GB HDD Xbox 360?

[humbleopinion]

@fr0sty
You need to work on your trolling skills...
"too bad for those who bought a 4GB or 20GB model... guess they gotta pay for an overpriced proprietary hard drive now unless they want to have to switch discs and deal with greater texture pop in."

Well, I guess they can pay for an overpriced drive...
... Or they can deal with texture pop in...
... Or they can buy a cheap 20$ USB drive and install the game to avoid switching discs!

You see, that's because MS give gamer OPTIONS. Every X360 gives you the option to install it to the HD, to a USB drive or simply play with directly from the disc with no installation and no wait time before booting it up for the first time.
It's not like the PS3 where you will either be forced have a mandatory install, or forced have to deal with even greater pop in (because BD constant speed is slower then DVD).

[hassi94]

On a slightly related note:

I love digital downloads, I have like 80 games on Steam, however I hate them on Xbox and PS3 because they're all so overpriced and it takes months and months to receive a price drop, while retail games decrease in value at steady rates.

[Kleptic]

The 360 never has mandatory installs to my knowlegde, this article was most likely trying to point out how big the console version of the game would be (still a single layer BD, or close anyway)...but got lost in the influx of ignorance...

The Ps3 on the other hand often has mandatory installs, but NEVER the entire game...so people shouting above about how the Ps3 will have a 25gb install required are completely full of shit...

All i am positive of is that this game has shown me exactly zero reasons to be overly interested...after the nightmare of Doom 3 and what they turned it into, i haven't had iD on my list of the industries best for years...

groundbreaking programming has never single handedly made a great game...Doom 3 is a shining example of that...and Rage looks like a prettier Fallout 3...with racing...or something...I may be wrong, but what i've seen so far it would be lucky to be a rental...

[juggulator]

Carmack pointed out the pluses and minuses of it though.He said if you can install the game to the 360 HDD then thats the way to go because it'll run better since there's no running the game from optical media.Hw also went on to say that it kinda hurts them on the dev side of things because there's no partial install like on PS3.

[Christopher]

@Godmars290: Mine only came with 20GB and it only has 12GB free. Don't see the need to buy a bigger HDD just so I can install game discs to my HDD, though.

Carmack's points are for technical people, though, and will be used by people on the Internet to +1 their choice of console (PC, 360, PS3) in some way or fashion. Carmack doesn't care, he just works to make the game look as good as possible on each console.

The argument over BD vs DVD and 360 GPU vs PS3 GPU+SPU is so old that it really doesn't need to be brought up.

PS3 will require install to reduce asset latency issues due to BD drives having a constant rather than variable speed. 360 users with big enough HDDs can install as they please to reduce laser wear and increase load times and reduce chances of pop-ins.

And, while 360 could handle bigger textures, what people gloss over is its inability to do handle the AI, physics, and lighting elements as quickly as the PS3.

Seriously, this argument is as old as day 1 release of the PS3 and I'm surprised people just don't realize that each console has its weaknesses and strengths that hold each other back, but regardless they both provide some great gaming moments.

[Persistantthug]

"Carmack also revealed that the Blu Ray has worse latency than the DVD, at least on the PS3."

In relation to his game, Is Carmack referring to streaming from the BLURAY, or is he referring just to installations?

If the former, then I hope he took into account PS3's harddrive (every PS3 has one) which can be leveraged for Virtual ram and/or data streaming for seamless play.
Perhaps Carmack needs to contact Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica since he may be a little bit out of his element regarding PS3 game development.
Never hurts to ask for help.

[gamingdroid]

He is saying data latency, i.e. the time it takes to request the data until you get it from the Blu-Ray disc.

You can work around it by pre-streaming, intelligent caching, replicating the data on disc or install the data to the hard drive.

However, it is what it is....

[-Alpha]

He's referring to the fact, if I'm not mistaken, that the Blu Ray reader on the PS3 is slower than DVDs and current BR readers

This is why lots of games need mandatory installs on PS3. As droid said, installing to the HDD is a way to work around this issue

[Ardorme]

Carmack is never out of his element on anything. He knows game development better than anyone else in the industry.

[jetlian]

maybe he should ask you! ND and SSM don't have games like rage so its no point in asking them. His game is far more open than their so their tech probably won't work

[_Aarix_]

-_- its carmack...he can put uncharted on a toaster

[Kleptic]

The PS3's BD drive is fixed iirc...the 360's DVD drive is not...a certain parts of the platter, the Ps3's drive is faster, at certain parts its slower...

The biggest advantage, at least visually, that the BD storage capacity gives to developers is the ability to pack on uncompressed HD texture data...as in the data can be pooled directly off the disc, into the RSX, and displayed...the advantage with that is not using any memory bandwidth or processing to decompress the textures...the Achilles heel with these operations becomes the access speed of the BD drive itself, and the caching abilities programmed into the engine...and carmack was basically saying that is a hurdle with his engine...

the PS3 has not had a single open world game use these tech mechanics, and i'm guessing that if anyone could do it...it would be carmack...more linear titles have got it to work with impressive results...killzone 2 and 3, as well as all uncharted's being the most notable examples...no texture pop in, some of the most detailed textures on a console to date, as well as saving processing for other effects simultaneously...not to mention NO installs of any kind across all those games...

[cjflora]

I was pretty impressed with Infamous 2 as an open world game.

[Snakefist30]

Im gonna buy the PS3 Version!

[ElementX]

I'm going to see how they both perform before I choose which platform to buy it on.

[SITH]

Same here arc 250 gig ftw. This install is nothing.

[Mr_Lu_Kim]

you mean this install is 1/10th?

It seems a big deal to me if I was stuck with such a small HDD.

I am so use to 2000+ gig now that I would use 250 gig in about 1/8th of my library of games.

[SITH]

NOGAF. Congratulations and what does that have to do with rage install on the 360?

[C_Dub]

250GB 360 S here. I remember my first Xbox...was only a 20GB lol! It couldn't even hold this game on a blank drive.

[NewVegasTroop]

the more GB the better :) (both HDD and game data)

[M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L]

jeseth : Its nothing new. It's just your typical day on N4G.

[InNomeDiDio]

All my games are installed on HDD on my 360. I have 250GB. So I use this space for every game. Loading time is much faster and the 360 works quitly. On my 360 there is still space for 20-25 games without any problem.

[showtimefolks]

most big games are over 180gb like me2 and stuff but when you install its so quite. I will be getting this for ps3 just because i feel more comfortable with a ps3 controller.

and to people who are saying 3 disks come on you mean to tell me you can change a disk every 6-8 hrs?

ps2 had many games on 2 disks so no worries but i don't know why i have no hype for this game i am sure it will be great since its coming from ID but i just got a weird feeling about this game

[DJMarty]

Is for the 20giggers.

[Karooo]

It's optional I guess. Not sure though.

[TyrionL]

Or you can just install one disc at a time, so once you move to disc 2, uninstall disc 1 and then install disc 2. I've had to do that before.

[adamant715]

I never really saw the point of installing games to the HD.. 2 more seconds of game loading is not gonna kill me..

[sayonara89]

Noise, my Jasper is like a vaccumm with disc inside.

[bumnut]

You should consider yourself lucky, my 360 sounded like a washing machine on spin :)

[badz149]

I think it really IS your actual washing machine spinning in the laundry. there's no way a 360 can sound THAT bad!

[saladthieves]

@badz149

The 360 CAN sound that bad and quite loud. I had mine standing on top of a table...result? The sound vibrates into the table, amplifying the noise.

Solution? Installed the game to the HDD (I always do) to minimize laser wear and enjoy a completely quiet experience.

[badz149]

I never had a 360 before and here I was thinking that people over-exaggerate over the 360's noise! it's true? wow!

[Persistantthug]

Installing to harddrive in XBOX 360's stopped wear and tear on the DVD drive as well it cut down on disk scratching since XBOX 360 DVD's don't have any protective coating.

Installing also may cut down on heat, which XBOX 360's certainly didn't need more of.

[gamingdroid]

I have never had a scratched disc, unless you move the console while the disc is in it. In which case, my PC DVD-Drive has eaten a few music CDs as well.

It is a bad idea to move anything electronic that has a fast spinning part inside anyhow.

[Persistantthug]

"Almost at the same time the Xbox 360 was released in late 2005, customers began reporting rounded scratches found on discs used in their Xbox 360 consoles. Almost two years later, in February 2007, the website "The Llamma's Adventures" investigated the matter and concluded that some Xbox 360 drives lack a mechanism to secure the disc solidly in place.[40] Tilting or moving consoles with these drives, when operating with a disc spinning inside, can potentially cause damage to the disc, in some cases rendering the disc unusable.[41] Discs have also been scratched by stationary consoles during normal use."

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... )

I'm certainly glad that this issue didn't affect you, gamingdroid.

[DaTruth]

My friends dad lived by a train track and he stopped bringing his 360 there because every time a train went by he would lose a game.

Sometimes environmental effects can move your console! Also, if you live in San Fran or Japan, always install to HDD!

[gamingdroid]

Since you went out of your way to PM me:

As I said, you shouldn't move the console with a spinning disc inside. Common sense tells you that is a bad idea.

"Discs have also been scratched by stationary consoles during normal use."

This on the other hand has never been shown. The only way I could see it happen is if the machine is vibrating so hard it actually moves the console....

@DaTruth

LOL, those train are d@mn loud and will shake your entire house and in some cases cut your electricity. I got the unfortunate experience of living right next to one for a few months.

Why install in SF or Japan?

[Anon1974]

I can speak from experience on this one. My 3rd 360 console was a disk scratcher. MS sent it to me as a replacement and I noticed it was a bit louder than the previous, but whatever. About 2 weeks after I received the console I received an error due to an unreadable disk. I flipped over the disk expecting to find a fingerprint or something and was shocked to find gouged rings in my disk. A quick check showed all three games I had been playing over those two weeks were gouged by a stationary 360.

And to add insult to injury, MS didn't want to take it back. "Disk scratching units aren't covered by the 3 year warranty, that's only covered for one year." Thankfully I had bought an extended warranty when my 2nd 360 red ringed on me and after pointing that out, they reluctantly agreed to replace the disk gouging unit.

I haven't had a problem with disk scratching before or since.

[sak500]

@adamant

Seriously? you dont feel teh difference between HDD install and direct DVD play? Noise for one but also the loading time is improved quite a lot. Specially games which have been optimised for HDD play.

[BeOneWithTheGun]

The reduction of wear and tear on the laser is reason enough to install!

[sak500]

Oh yes and that too ;)

[adamant715]

Not really.. I have a 20GB HD though, so If I have to do it, I can only do it sparingly. I did it with Oblivion due to constant lag, freeze, etc. All I really noticed was that load times were a bit faster, and that the 360 was more quiet. Same lag, etc. Haha. I've been playing without installing for 3 years, which was when I purchased my Xbox 360. Not sure where all the "wear and tear" is coming from.. But whatever, lol.

[aGameDeveloper]

@adamant

99.9% of games today load all texture data into video card memory (or shared system RAM) at load time, so in that case, you will only see a slower load time. Carmack talked about extensive use of caches, due to the fact that Rage has too much texture data to fit in memory like that. So, if you have the game installed to HD, that texture data is streamed in from a pretty fast source at all times. If you choose not to install from HD, then you will see textures streaming in whenever they need to be read from DVD the first time. In the worst case, when you have an arcade machine with no HD, you will see the textures streaming in all the time. He said you might have to wait as much as 15-20 seconds for all the texture detail to stream in off DVD in the worst case.

As with Lost Odyssey, you could probably install one disk at a time, so you wouldn't need the entire amount of space he mentioned.

[Rageanitus]

lol still stuck in the past eh...... have you ever played games like diablo... things popped into the screen because the cd/dvd had to play catchup when loading assets in a game.

Hell my xbox is so much more quieter with the dvd installs....

[sak500]

No issues in this day and age of 250gb systems. I have 199GB spare.

For the old 20gig or 4GB version they can still play w/o install as it should not be mandatory install. Good thing considering MS did not make HDD as standard otherwise this would pi$$ lot of gamers.

[jack who]

nice

[nightmarex121]

Well its beneficial to install so you don't have to worry about the 3 disks.

[Heartnet]

or mabz u have to install each disc :O

[kaveti6616]

I watched Carmack's 90 minute keynote. My thoughts.

1) He should have been sitting the entire time instead of standing.

2) He should have drank more water because his voice was so raspy and dry-sounding.

3) He's not a PC fanboy as far as I can tell. He likes the challenge of developing on limited hardware and he likes some of the methods that consoles have.

4) He thinks PC architecture is a little deceptive.

5) Carmack is a genius; he has poor communication skills. His entire keynote was a series of incomplete thoughts and tangents.

[jetlian]

he was speaking his mind more than conference style! Its seems incomplete because he's on a higher level than you.

I'm not saying your dumb just not on the same tech level. Try explaining stuff to kids and just look at their face you can see they missing certain points

[Anonagrog]

I agree completely, although, a chair was brought out to him halfway through. Ha! :P

As a graduate programmer joining the industry, I found it a useful insight into the inner-workings of someone as skillful as Carmack. In my opinion, calling it a keynote was a bit of a misnomer. I ignored what it was and, based on his usual twitter feeds, guessed it would be more a ramblings on his work in the industry and of his completed work on idTech 5 than anything else. He gave me exactly what I wanted. In fact, I'd have rathered more technical details than were given, but that's what the Games Developers Conference's are for.

[MGRogue2017]

PC version ftw.

[AstroZombie1]

Ouch.

[Black102WingS]

Another reason why i love PS3

[KillerPwned]

O damn i forgot about this game i gotta get it. That is a huge install for 360. I bet their will be one on PS3 wonder how big that will be. If i got the cash i will get this game either on PS3 or PC.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I wonder how big the mandatory install on the PS3 will be?

[Why o why]

thats an interesting question. I wish i could install the whole disk on the ps like the 360 allows. Saving a drive saves drives.

Mandatory or not, i would install

[SuperSaiyan4]

It's coming out on 3 discs for the 360 then?

[Raven_Nomad]

No biggie, I still have like 180 gigs left on my 250 gig HDD. Cant wait to play this game!

[ExitToExisT]

so it will be 3-4 discs

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

Damn, definetly should be better the PC or PS3 version.

[cstyle]

PC version will be the best followed by the 360.

[MasterCornholio]

Must be heavily compressed to fit onto 2 DVD-9 interesting.

well at least its not a big deal. People who dont have space wont istall simple as that. Plus the install is completly optional.

[Anonagrog]

I believe it's compressed to fit on 3 discs, not 2. In fact, if it's using the new Xbox disc format then it might not even need extra compressing to fit the 3 discs.

[MetalFreakMike]

OK, first off this is article is about how much space the game is going to take up on the 360 if installed.

Second, for the trolls that said it's going to take a hour to install on the PS3, PS3 does not install the whole game to the HDD. It might be like a 5 or 6 gig install. It will be used to speed up loading and put less wear and tear on the lens.

Please stop bringing things into a conversion that has nothing to do with the conversion itself.

[Rashonality]

360 games usually take 7.x gigs on DVD, so 3 DVDs = ~21.x to 22 gigs.
it's just a matter of thinking about it.

[ME1989]

Damn, I have a 120gb 360...

It's alright, I'll install it, then delete it again when I beat it. I do that with most of my games anyway, unless I play the multiplayer a lot.

[AO1JMM]

I guess there is a use for that 250GB HDD in my slim afterall. LOL

[Toman85]

You must install games, then you get better loadtimes. But 21-22GB is heck of a lot, because Ive already installed games like Lost odyssey and that takes around 20gb, and I have only around 60GB left..

I have a choice, but my choice is always been made when I heard about Rage, Rage is soon preordered for my PC, sorry my PS3 and X360, better luck next time :)

[xtremegamerage]

I heard it takes around 15secs in some area's to load in, that's quite long,lol.

[bangoskank]

Looks like I'll be forced to buy the PS3 version as I don't have enough space on my 360 drive. I just hope the PS3 version doesn't suffer from framerate issues,

[RAmar101]

At least 360 version comes on 1 disk, which is a change for the good as there seems to be more multi disk games for 360 than xbox 1 days

[Anonagrog]

3 Discs, not 1.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Bottom line for me... I have an avg PC, a 120GB PS3 and a 250GB 360 and I will play this on my 360. Why? My pc will most likely melt trying to run it and I hate the dual shock controller for shooters (its best for driving and platformers). Whether its one disc and big install or disc swapping...I will enjoy the 360 version best.

[ForROME]

eventually all games will full install and this game is worth it so do it

[Gigglefist]

I play everything Id makes. They're overdue for a new game. I have high hopes for this baby.

[gypsygib]

More and more multiplats games are in the plus 15 gig category now. I like that for some reason.

[Imikida]

Gesus, can't we go through an xbox or ps3 article without fanboy arguments? I own a ps3 and i love my ps3, but when i saw this I didn't go "ohhhhhhhhhh get owneddddddd xbox360 suck it!" I mean seriously? Both consoles have flaws, and when something comes up about the flaws on a ps3 or xbox the fanboys of the opposite console come up and make all these false statments about the console, I mean just grow up theres like arguments on here that go on forever.

[reckoner]

Agreed. But this is N4G, nothing is going to change. People will always want to stroke their e-peen, and defending their choice of console is one way of doing that.

[Zanarkand]

At times like these is when the PC takes the spotlight. Specially' for this game.

[Platinum_k]

so that's around 2-3 disc for the 360, correct? ouch!

[devilhunterx]

RAGE!

[hot111]

PC version install is also 20 something gigs.
Funny how 360 version is the best console version in terms of streaming data(if you fully install).
In his keynote,Carmack spend lots of time complaining about PS3.They are negotiating with Sony about few more gigs for partial install.

You can watch the keynote here
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Christopher]

Sony should allow full install as an option and have a mandatory install that covers the necessary assets that would take time to load from the disc. Didn't know Sony limited developers on how much they could install, though... ?

[RevXM]

I dont think Carmack ever mentioned anything about full install on Ps3. He did say the game is the same size on both PS3 and 360, and HDD space is not a problem for ps3.

Just saying PS3 users should have that option too.

[gcolley]

troll bait

[Snowii]

xbox needs to upgrade its discs

thats one of the reasons i got a ps3

[Jamito]

Sweeeet So I've got a choice of having a compact Hoover on my desk, or fishing out money on a new Hard drive, typical...

[steve30x]

Dont they mean HardDrive space.

[unicron7]

Wow, that's quite a bit of space. Thank goodness for bluray.

[WhiteLightning]

I don't mind waiting a lil while as it installs on the PS3, rather then having three discs.

All this "Well you have to wait ages for it on the PS3"

So...I'd rather wait a little while and have one disc then 3 of them.

If this was the other way round people would be going "HAHA PS3 has three discs, least we only have to wait a while and have one disc"

[MrSpace]

Sometimes I think Carmack comes off as a little bit of a 360 fanboy.

If you put your mind to it and work had you can acheive something amazing on the PS3. Look at ND

Seems lazy to me

[reckoner]

Oh wow, the "lazy" argument. I haven't seen that in a while.

Face it, man. Maybe the PS3 isn't as perfect as you make it out to be. Carmack is a genius at game development, and that's an understatement. So if he favors the technical aspects of the 360 over the PS3, maybe there's some merit to it.

[BlackTar187]

so carmack trumps all. Your going to blow out what other people say close your eyes plug yuo ears and accept nothing now that carmack didn't even really say what your saying he did.

even the best at things doesn't mean there the best at everything.

thats said i can't wait

Its actually pretty clear you hold a resentment of some sort for other peoples preference based on your comment history. I understand you never really bash it but its easy to see you make underhanded remarks towards 1 and not the other and thats just the first page of your comments.
Maybe the 360 isn't as much as you really want it to be .

[reckoner]

http://n4g.com/news/721819/...

I never said Carmack "trumps all". I never said he was the best and brightest developer out there now, and everyone else completely fails in comparison.

But he has been a leading innovator in the industry for around 20 years now... and his opinion shouldn't be taken lightly.

EDIT: Yes, I like the 360. Is that a problem? But I own a PS3 as well, and I think it's a great console. I just feel the need to comment on some of the ridiculous posts on N4G, which happen to be heavily biased towards the PS3.

[BlackTar187]

but i never see you comment on the heavily biased xbox posts. So if you look for something hard enough you will find it and miss all the other things in the process.

anyways no biggie Game on.

[Morgue]

Who cares. Think of all the material things we own and how much space that takes up.

[BattleTorn]

I need to know which version will be better!

People are saying X360 is the better version.

But the 3-discs have me concerned, although the large install doesn't bother me.

What has me concerned is whether the X360 version will actually be better or comparible to PS3.

Look at LA NOIRE, 3-disc on X360 wasn't only a inconvenience, but the version lacked effects.

LA Noire on X360 didn't have real-time reflections or Outdoot->Indoor lighting/shadows.

Will the X360 version actually be better? despite the mutli-disc inconvenience?

(I'm wondering the same thing with Skyrim)

[cervantes99]

Getting the Gears 3 Limited Edition 320GB Console so this will be no problem :)

Carmack said at QuakeCon that 360 Gamers will want to install this to the HD.