The Digital Bits View on the $98 hd-dvd player

How in the world does Toshiba think it's ever going to make any money from the HD-DVD format? I mean, seriously.

You may have heard by now that Toshiba has made pre-Black Friday arrangements with Wal-Mart to effectively dump its HD-A2 HD-DVD player starting this Friday (this weekend only) for just $98.87. You may also have heard that Best Buy has followed suit. Supplies are limited, of course, and the offer is apparently not valid in some parts of the country that have state anti-dumping laws.

[PimpHandHappy]

and if you think it doesnt ur a blind fanboy

[Bladestar]

You my friend are a lemming and a fanboy.... blind one to be more exact... here is my reason why...

Not even 1 year ago... Sony released their blu-ray player for over $1,000.... not even 6 months ago... the PS3 price was drop by $100 just be get another $100 price drop with the release of the 40GB SKU....

Today blu-ray players are more than $600 less than one year ago..
Toshiba finacial report? Sony finacial report? the amount of money Sony is losing to push blu-ray is a clear indication that they are bleeding money left and right... why is sony willing to lose money and reduce the price? if toshiba can finantialy reduce the cost of HD DVD player without bleeding as much money as sony because HD DVD players cost less to manufacture... why not?

Desperate? You have double standards... when Sony drop the price is always a good move... when another company does it it's desperation... which one is it?

I tell you... it's business.. companies reduce price as needed...
Specially when it comes to Sony which just annouced they will be dropping the price of the blu-ray player... you should not be talking about price drop as an indication of desperation... I think sony broke the record as far as price drop frequency..

[ActionBastard]

It's not a price drop. It's a "sale", temporary at that. And if Sony went from a $499 price point to $99 overnight, you'd say it was desperate. Why not just accept it for what it is, a last ditch effort.

[suedester]

Haha, Bladestar did you even read the article? This is the best indication yet that Toshiba are running out of ideas. Have you not noticed that no other manufacturer is prepared to make HD DVD players? I wonder why that could be.....

[Snukadaman]

yeaa I love this desperation talk.....love it.

[THUNDERMARE]

We are talking about price drop from $499 to $99(from manufacture suggested price earlier this year, not the price Toshiba used later in the year to fight with BR according to the article.), this is dumping. Sony cut PS3 price from 599 to 499, this is not dumping.

Its doesnt really matter if Toshiba can do it only during black friday, its only matter if Toshiba can sustain that price for years.

[SIX]

but they are in a desperate situation. This move shows alot of weakness in the confidence of the HD DVD format.

[Lionsguard]

How else are they going to counter the new PS3 SKU with Free Spiderman3?

[lodossrage]

Because they're going to go into these walmart and best buy stores thinking to themselves "oh wow hd dvd for only $99"

And they'll be suckered into buying those cheap players that can' even do 1080p just to learn that the majority of things they might want are only on blu ray

[Kholinar]

from cnet: 1080i vs 1080p

"To be sure, both 1080i and 1080p offer exactly the same amount of detail, the only difference is that with a 1080i signal, your HDTV will need to de-interlace the signal. So the only reason you'd want 1080p over 1080i is if the HD DVD player offered better de-interlacing than your HDTV.

The simple answer is yes, 1080p output can make a difference, but it depends on what TV you have. For example, we used Silicon Optix's HQV HD DVD test suite, and looked at the two players at their maximum resolutions on the Samsung LN-T4665F--an excellent HDTV overall, but we knew it had some issues with 1080i de-interlacing. Not surprisingly, we saw significant differences in the way the two players handled those test patterns on this TV. For example, on the Video Resolution Loss Test with the HD-A2, one of the boxes had a strobe-like effect, while the same box was stable with the HD-XA2. The same thing happened on the Film Resolution test. We also saw a significant difference on the Diagonal Filter "Jaggies" test, with three pivoting lines having nearly no artifacts on the HD-XA2 but two of the lines having noticeable artifacts on the HD-A2.

Despite these differences with test patterns, however, we found it difficult to find any noticeable difference with program material. We checked out the difficult Chapter 9 from Aeon Flux, for example, and both players looked the same on the Samsung TV. It's safe to say that with most HDTVs, the differences between the appearance of HD DVD discs at 1080i and at 1080p will be slight.

Is it worth spending the extra money? That depends on how well your own set does 1080i de-interlacing and how much you value squeezing just a little more performance out of your home theater."

[Bladestar]

if someone have the money to buy a TV capable of pushing 1080P.. that means...

A) They have the money and have no problem getting a more expensive SKU.

B) already have an HD player.. probably early adopter and paid $600-$1000 for an HD Player...

and here it comes the undeniable truth...

for the price of 1 blu-ray player one can get 4 HD DVD players.. and watch HD movies even in the bathroom... what? you have 4 HD TV that support 1080P?

do you have an HD TV that supports 1080P? show me the picture (with you name tagged)... would like to see it... and if you do.. congratulation.... you a very small percent of people that care.

[ActionBastard]

"for the price of 1 blu-ray player one can get 4 HD DVD players"
What part of temporary sale do you not understand? Quit trying to spin it like a price break.

[Bonsai1214]

you'll get an ugly picture if you watch a fast paced movie in 1080i. most of you probably know how progressive and interlacing work, so i won't bother explaining it. noticeably, you'll get screen tearing (not sure of the official term) because the camera pans quickly and the display speed isn't fast enough to make up for the delay in rendering every other line on the tv.

ironically, the "best" movie which most people will probably buy on hd-dvd is transformers, which unfortunately is a fast paced, fast panning movie, so most people will be like, wtf.

[SW]

I've never experienced any of this "tearing" in my hdtv that I've had for close to five years now. Ghosting maybe but not "tearing". Every sports event comes in crystal clear and perfectly fine. If you have an eagle eye to pick out every other scan line being filled than your quite impressive.

[Bazookajoe_83]

But thats because i can play bluray on my ps3. But i rather buy a hd-dvd player than a add-on for my 360, i hate add-on´s. It´s butt ugly and inconvinient..

[bym051d]

I think the most important point is the people who are lured into buying a $99 player are likely to be ones without HDTV and who probably won't be buying many $30 movies.

[damnwrx]

They buy Blu-ray movies.......Sad but true!

[bym051d]

I hope the people who buy the cheap players buy a sh**load of Ratatouille.

[tientch1]

it's as simple as that
Toshiba is just trying to make a lil bit of money by selling the remaining to make the crash smoother.
Any financially educated person can see that.

[smturner68]

Well, I even heard the regulars at work talking about buying one. This one guy, saw the low priced Sanyo 50" plasma on sale, he wanted that, AND the Toshiba Hd-dvd player. Lots of people buy at these crazy sales. HD-DVD isn't going anywhere for a long time.

[Gmoney]

@Bladestar.....Selling HD-DVD players at the same cost as regular DVD players is not desperate? Buying companies to support them is not desperate? In the end....you lose..enough said.

[XXXRATED]

KholinaR

If you can't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p you should get your eyes checked it is half the frames displayed if you are watching movies with action you see it clearly. if your tv de interlaces it still can't produce another motion frame that isn't there so it is slowing the fps down to let you see the whole screen.

read to understand before you post someone elses poor excuse of why the hd-dvd format is as good in 1080i as 1080p blu-ray get a clue!

hd-dvd sucks get over it.

[pwnsause]

its not even Resolution differences, but also the codecs they use to watch movies. HD-DVD runs in VC-1 codec, Blu-ray at AVC/Mpeg-4 AVC/Mpeg-4 > VC-1, just look it up

[Kholinar]

Most people can't see it, eyes checked or not, or won't notice it unless it's explicitly pointed out by a videophile. 95% of the people don't even care if their dvd player is progressive scan.

The facts are that most people who buy hdtv's don't have 1080p. This won't change until 1080p sets reach reasonable prices. In that way it's a lot like blu-ray. You can spout declarations of fact/stats all you want, but in the end it just doesn't matter to Joe Consumer.

I don't have a preference regarding either media. I just think these threads only equating these price drops to desperation are silly. Walmart, Kmart, Best Buy, etc. are all more involved in this than Toshiba or the HD Dvd group. They want consumers money this christmas, and cheap gets it.

It's amazing to me how mad people get over something stupid and pointless like this. It's like a bunch of geeks arguing which programming language is best.

[XxZxX]

this is absolutely the stupidiest move ever. Let's face it, now an average consumers aware of HD-DVD in $98 but OOS. quickly go buy, the price go back to $198. Everybody gonna wait now until it's $98 again. Good luck with that

[kalistyles]

"There's no doubt that thousands of eager consumers will get a deal on cheap hardware this weekend. But it still isn't going to be the format war winner for HD-DVD that some would like to believe. On the contrary, it means that Toshiba is getting desperate enough to adopt an all-or-nothing strategy... and is going even more deeply into the red with this format. Meanwhile, given the strength of their rhetoric this week, it's a safe bet that the Blu-ray camp will pull their gloves off too in the fourth quarter, and start getting more aggressive in the weeks and months ahead."

Fact is that these players haven't been selling at all and that Toshiba is in a desperate situation here to sell off what they have. Not gonna matter though. Blu Ray has to much momentum and too many releases coming from the studios. Which is what the people want.

[rmedtx888]

They probably made money already the Paramount way...

[Fan Tastic]

Don't worry HD DVD/MS fanboys more will come to blu-ray. Doesn't work the other way as HD DVD players can't do the bandwidth needed for many of the blu-ray exclusives! hahahahahaha, stupid f'n M$/Toshita sheep.

http://www.image-load.eu/ou...

http://www.image-load.eu/ou...

http://www.image-load.eu/ou...

http://www.image-load.eu/ou...

http://www.image-load.eu/ou...

[Bonsai1214]

hmm? where'd those shots come from. is it like the go around where you order it from a foreign country that paramount didn't promise hd-dvd exclusive to?

interesting. but my next purchase will probably be planet earth. cause that movie/documentary is so educational as well as beautiful to watch.

[pwnsause]

get outa here, you dont have Transformers on Blu-ray (you can tell its a BD movie because of the codec its running in (AVC)), unless you either ripped it off an HD-DVD to Blu-ray, or you have connections...

[Fan Tastic]

FYI, it is AVC on HD DVD as well. Kind of funny considering Paramount was bribed by M$ and didn't use their inferior codec.

"get outa here, you dont have Transformers on Blu-ray (you can tell its a BD movie because of the codec its running in (AVC)), unless you either ripped it off an HD-DVD to Blu-ray, or you have connections...

[ApocalypseShadow]

when sony dropped the price of ps3,it was first done in japan where they make ps3.they didn't have to worry about taxes,shipping,etc.so,it was perfectly fine to give the japanese gamers a break.

when sony dropped the price of ps3 in the states,it wasn't at launch.it was over 6 months later when production increased and bluray diodes were in abundance.adding 80gig instead of 60gigs in the system wasn't an increase in price for them.it probably cost them the same to purchase or less.and to give gamers a little break."A LITTLE."

in europe,they didn't get a price break.it wasn't even on the market long enough to drop the price over there.so,sony gave them incentive to buy the system by including games and an extra controller.but no price drop.now,they get a price drop in the form of a lower model system compared to the previous one.taking out parts that make it cheaper is different than dropping the price below it's manufacturing price.

now america and japan get the new system as well.that's not dumping the system on the market.it's waiting until it's capable in going down in price by manufacturing and removal of parts.if sony would have dropped the price to $299 wordwide,that would have been considered DESPERATE.and a loss in profits.

but this HD-DVD player is dropped in price as if it is being dumped.no parts removed.no increase in production.no competition from other manufacturers.

THIS IS DUMPING PRODUCT.CLEAR AND SIMPLE.

either it wasn't selling,or to get it off the shelf to replace it with some new version.any person with intelligence can see this.

mag lev........................

[SKUD]

A lot of good point's. I think though at $99.99 It looks like toshiba is just going to sell off any stock left and hold off on manufacturing any new players. All without seeing a dime in profit. That cant be good.

[Bill Gates]

This is what happens when DESPARATION creeps in....AAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAAHAHH AHAHAHHAHAAHHHAH

[crck]

I mean $99 + 5 free movies? I think most reasonable people will see this as desperate. I mean after this what other move could they make if it doesn't work? Ink a deal with Mcdonald's to give a player away with every happy meal? They have no more cards to play.

[cmrbe]

The difference is the cheapest PS3 is still 130 more expensive than the cheapest x360. So the comparisons with PS3 price drops are not valid. Hd-dvd players were already at least 200 below blu players so dropping them further is really a sign of desperation for Toshiba. Sony dropped it PS3 price because it was 200 more than its closest rival and is the biggest barrier to its adoption. If the PS3 price was lower than x360 and Sony decided to drop it's price further then i will say that Sony is desperate as is the case with Toshiba with this move.

[SW]

.

[SSCOOLCHEA]

You got that right people , Mcdonalds is including HD-DVD with there happy meal. I have a Ps3 so having BLU RAY and a gaming sysytem even for $ 599 was a great price for me . ps3 + bravia w series = fantastic picture and sound

[SW]

The "King rolls with MS. Ronald would have to roll with the Cryps. And now Fanboys start the argument about which fast food is better.

[darthv72]

My first question was why does this guy even care to comment on what Toshiba wants to do when he clearly has no interest in their business to begin with. It is more to justify his opinion that one format is better than the other. A sad but true tactic when faced with an opponent. You find any weakness and try and exploit it. Typical fanboy behaviour.

In order for the article to have merrit, it should have been on the strengths of each format and be a true neutral objective article. I guess there are no more real neutral objective writers in the media anymore. With that said, the selling off of the older gen hardware at a loss is really noting new. I see games selling new for $5 when once they garnered prices upwards of $50. But because they are older titles, no one is willing to pay full price for a game that is 2-4 years old. Or more specifically, it depends on the game.

Toshiba selling an hddvd player for $100 is great and anyone that has a bluray player should pick one up for the simple reason that they would then be able to get movies in hd that were not available in bluray disc. There is nothing wrong with that. It is pretty common to have more than one game console in the house. Why cant it be just as common to have more than one HD movie player too? I have xbox and PS2 and have games that are only playable on the respected console. It would seem that the same situation is upon us for movies. At least until a resolution is made between the two formats.

I have a laserdisc player and movies for it that I could rebuy on DVD but I dont because the laserdisc version is already in my collection. The same for VHS movies. Actually, in that example I have been buying dvd versions of vhs movies because my kids have watched them to the point where they no longer play correctly. Yet you see my point of having more than one movie format and player to play it is common. Buying a cheap HDDVD player is no crime if you already have a PS3 or stand alone bluray player. It only adds to the hd movie playback capabilities of the consumer and opens the door to movies not available on one format or the other.

[mikeslemonade]

I don't see any logic by offering a $99 hd-dvd player. People who buy this like to exploit these offers by reselling them for a profit or getting the 7 free HD-DVD players and buying transformers. Toshiba is in such terrible shape that at this point they're basically giving money and they are already past giving it out for free when hd-dvd was $200 with 7 free movies.

[darthv72]

could be construed as a desperate move as well. Yet because both formats are lacking the consumer acceptance that are needed to evolve into the mainstream, they have to use incentives where possible. It was 5 movies then it was upped to 7 and in some cases 8 or 9 movies. You figure the movies average $20-30 ea and giving away so many negates the purchase price of the player. Sort of like those old columbia house adverts where you can get 10 cd's for a penny if you promise to buy 5 at regular price over the course of a year.

Why question the logic when the price is cheap enough to consider the purchase expendable? You may be wanting to use the logic of if something is to good to be true it probably isnt...well this is ture (for a limited time/supply) so it must be good.

[Lord Anubis]

this feels like sega, its only a matter of time before toshiba starts giving away players and die in absolution.

[level 360]

Too bad for those who bought their HD-DVD, Blu-Ray players when they used to charge them in the price range of US$1,000.00 or more bucks.
Hah ha on you all!
Too gullible!

1080p,1080i - who cares? Can't tell the difference.
Price is all that matters, especially if it's at a bargain.