Ninja Gaiden 3 Producer: ‘Bayonetta Is Outdated’

Yosuke Hayashi, producer of Ninja Gaiden III, has told Play that Bayonetta is ‘old’.

[Optical_Matrix]

Ok, Bayonetta had the best core gameplay of any hack and slash released last year. Where god of war 3 beat it for me was the overall presentation eg delivery of narrative, graphics, polish. Bayonetta overall felt SLIGHTLY felt outdated, but the gameplay was excellent.

[Istanbull]

God of War III was overall the best hack n slash game since God of War II and DMC3.

Gameplay of Bayonetta was good, but kazillion x times combos and over the top gameplay doesn't make it the best.

[DatNJDom81]

Istanbull, couldn't have said it better myself, To this day I don't see why people flocked over to Bayonetta. I do admit that linking the combos was cool, but that's it. Everything else in that game was wack. I seriously think certain people wanted a replacement for Kratos since they either don't have access to those games or just are riding the Sony fail bandwagon along with the "journalists". Either way bayonetta wasn't my cup of tea, and for those gamers that really enjoyed it, then that is wonderful too. Let's see if the Ninja Gaiden creators will back up their shit talking.

[Minartis]

The best action game.... I think is down to personal taste.
Games like Gow, NG, Bayonetta and DMC are all good and worth playing.

Maybe Team Ninja have something special planned, we'll see more at E3.

Plus there's MGS Rising, Asura's Wrath, DMC 5 and Devil's Third to look forward to!

[baodeus]

instanbull,

i wouldnt even consider gow3 in the same league as NG, Bayonetta or DMC in fighting mechanic. U may like it better, but fighting mechanic is no where near any of these games. Like you said, GoW is simply hack and slash. U don't need much skills, if any, at all. Those other games, man you can do a lot or even get creative if you know what u are doing.

Although the new team ninja should be more humble. They haven't proven anything yet and base on their previous records, they haven't been doing well either.

[yume-k]

"Gameplay of Bayonetta was good, but kazillion x times combos and over the top gameplay doesn't make it the best."

Wow, the best comment here, but don't you think that the over the top gameplay is what makes this gen's action games so awesome... umm so tell me what makes an action game "The Best" in your opinion huh?

What a pathetic joke you are.

[sich92]

@baodeus

i went through all DMC's and bayo button mashing ...so ur theory of GoW requires no skills is BS
DMC simply requires linking attacks,while god of war requires various strategies for different monsters,that is not the case in DMC since the monsters are all almost the same,and come to think of it,i think capcom confused them with zombies xD so i never had to used the "Skills" u talk about,its a great game i know but next time u wanna talk about how hardcore it is remember that :)

as for bayo,its a stupid DMC wannabe,but the character isnt cool as dante,and they try to slut it up to make it polular,Zero quality afterall

i only played NGs 2 and honestly it wasnt all that impressive,felt the char plays itself,like pop :(

[FrankenLife]

Bayonetta took that genre, tore it apart, and threw it into crazy town. It was amazing. What made the combat so great wasn't the huge combos, it was how the combos worked. They were very timing based. If you wanted to do well, you couldn't button mash. The punches and kicks were precisely timed and ordered in a very intuitive way. At no point did it feel like I was pushing randomly ordered buttons to do a combo. GoW3 had the same gameplay as GoW2. They didn't evolve it at all. A few new weapons where most of them are just iterations on the same weapon you have been using since the first GoW.

Bayonetta's combat was very fluid. Everything transitioned into everything very smoothly. You could break your combo to dash out of the way if you need to, and then get right into another combo without missing a beat. GoW on the other hand didn't. It was very clunky. You couldn't interrupt a combo animation to jump or dodge. There were very visible separations between combos.

GoW did have an incredibly epic presentation. That was handled expertly within the context of the game. Bayonetta on the other hand didn't really have context. It was just crazy. It was like every time the designers came up with something they were told to make it more crazy until they ran out of time and had to ship it. I could imagine the conversation:
"That looks good, but can you make it more crazy"
"I added a second head to the dragon."
"You are getting closer, but it needs something else."
"How about a baby head on the bottom of the dragon?"
"Make that 2 baby heads."
"Why is the battle on the ground? Get rid of it. Make them flying through space in a church."

Bayonetta also kept the gameplay varied through the game. You never knew when you were going to go into a sequence that made no sense. They put an Afterburner sequence in the game, for no reason other than it is awesome.

Bayonetta was something that we had never seen in a genre overflowing with copycats. GoW3 was an amazing looking GoW2.

[Istanbull]

@baodeus: what do you mean by "GoW is just hack n slash"? What are NG, DMC and Bayonetta? Rpg's? platformers? Shooters?

Being the best hack n slash is not having the biggest, greatest and longest combos or explosions that would make Michael Bay jealous. It is about the all the little details that make the game.

Bayonetta is good but not the best, if you consider it the best then you never played other hack n slash games.

Saying Bayonetta is the best is like saying FFXIII is the best rpg because it has the most beautiful CGI cutscenes, and FFVI or Chrono Trigger not.

Great hack n slash games:
-God of War series
-DMC1+3
-NG Black, NG Sigma
-Bayonetta

Not so great hack n slash games:
-NG2
-DMC2+4

[turgore]

God of War 2 was a better game.

[x5exotic]

@FrankenLife

haha funny comment,,,,

bayo brought something new? slut+hack and slash that is....

it copied DMC
Sequels,by the way,should not be expected to bring something revolutionary to the series,,,cuz it would feel unoriginal and tastes different than previous games,,which would suck,,(the new DmC is proof of that)
only the first game should bring something original and awesome,new idea,and sequels keep evolving that idea which is exactly what GoW does
what ur asking for,,is like wanting kratos with a light sabre or a Masterchief gun or something lol,besides the Titan level was pretty awesome,

if u wanna compare new ideas...you compare part of series vs part 1 of the other(so in this case GoW1 not 3(

but as i said bayo was never original,and the dragon limbed dude,,,this stuff is just random,kids draw that stuff lulz

overall:God of war has:better story,gameplay,music,graphics, voice acting,platforming

i might sound trollish but it is indeed the best H&S ever,and the runner ups are GoW1+2
;)

bayo did tear up the genre,but in a bad way,and so will the new DmC :(

[baodeus]

@instanbull
You guys don't get it. It takes time and practice to get better at NG, DMC or Bayo (why don't you look at what people can do with those game on youtube) and those game can be quit challenging. Think of those games as a fighting game like SSF where you have to remember every freakin move available and require lots of timing. It is not just about the combos either because when things get ugly, NG for example, you just trying to survive.

@sich92
1. What setting are you playing these game at?
2. Can you button smash through these games like these?
http://www.youtube.com/watc... http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

All of these games require great memorization of moves, timing, etc...to pull off moves and combos.

If you saying you Button smash through the game, then i'll bet you don't know what you are doing and the fighting mechanic that developers put into these games are wasted.

2. So you are saying GoW has better fighting mechanic? Like in what ways? If you mess up on QTE sequences, i mean does it change the next time you try it? No....that is the biggest differences between GoW and these games. There isn't much variation or what you can do with fighting mech in GoW vs these other games.

[Megaton]

God of War is the best of the western style hack 'n slash, and I think Bayonetta is the best of the Japanese style. Never liked Ninja Gaiden. That only wins at having the worst camera angles in the genre. Maybe it'll shape up now that Itagaki is gone. Sigma team already had to clean up his mess twice.

[no_more_heroes]

@Istanbull

So... God of War isn't over the top, then?

*Phew* glad we cleared THAT misconception up. For a second there I thought ripping someone's head and gouging their eyes out WAS over the top.

*facepalm* silly me!

/s

[brew]

shots fired

[Robearboy]

I have to disagree with peoples opinion that GOW3 has been the best hack n slash game this Gen, technically and graphics wise I would say yeah but the gameplay hasnt evolved since GOW 2 and for me it just wasnt all that memorable

NG2, Castlevania and Bayonetta were all better for me in gameplay

Just my opinion people

[DelbertGrady]

What is it that you are saying? You...you witch! :p

I'd say Bayonetta as the best, gameplaywise.

[newn4gguy]

GoW3 was all about balance and story.

The weapons all felt unique, despite having the same basic shape. The story was AMAZING! Nothing in the history of entertainment has been that epic. Ever. The ending was inspiring and memorable also. The game was about brutally murdering gods/titans and enjoying every bloody second of it. That is why GoW3 is the best this generation.

Devil May Cry 4 and Bayonetta destroy every other game, in terms of gameplay, but still. I say DMC4 because it included all of Dante's combos from 3, in addition to Nero's from 4. DMC3 is still the best all-around action game out there.

[Roozium]

"The weapons all felt unique"

LOL. They felt exactly the same.

[DarkBlood]

well yeah if you look at it from a simple point that all they ever do is just kill your targets in different ways with the same goal in mind

[x5exotic]

i agree,but God of war is the best action/hack and slash game ever,in all aspects,and not only THIS gen. the whole series i mean :D

followed by DMC3,the series' weak point is story,though its fun to watch and so much Cool
its still not a proper story :S and the annoying between mission-breaks werent necessary
but still DMC and GoW IMO are the only H&S games i acknowledge,all others are copies of these 2 D:

[sich92]

ummm,how is copying DMC evolution ? and how is a half playable-half AI ninja fun XD

gow doesnt need to change ,it was already perfect gameplay wise,besides they added bunch of new moves if thats what u want ;)

[hellzsupernova]

i played castlevania and i agree Castlevania was a much better game.

[nix]

NG2 was hard for me... i survived by the thread with last boss literally. but one move i couldn't master was juggling of boobs. there was even a japanese ad on it. lol. i skipped Bayonetta bcoz GOW3 was coming out. i skipped rest of the hack n slash games bcoz i figured once u play the best game it doesn't feel good to play games that are not that great. but i would be picking up NG3 for sure.

[newn4gguy]

I don't even...

What is this?

[Eyeco]

my face after reading Nix's comment

[baodeus]

What do you mean, you people

great one eyeco

[Neckbear]

That...is an interesting opinion, even when I disagree with it.

Up to current-generation standards, it may be "outdated", but I believe that's the idea. Instead of "mashing one button to pull something awesome off", you actually have to learn how to play the game. Hopefully they don't pull off the former, because it'd be as fun as the auto-platforming oh-so-common-and-fun these days.

Ah, well.

[Raven_Nomad]

I enjoyed the Bayonetta story and the art style graphics a lot more then God OF War 3, it's just personal opinion however.

I never played any of the other God OF War titles and was able to beat part 3 in under 5 hours, which was a little short for a game that has no online or any re-playability.

Also I'm not sure if any of you played Bayonetta on the XBox 360, but it was much more polished and played the way it was intended to on the console. I hope Sega makes a sequel and I'm glad Sega was able to make such a splendid new IP.

As for NG3, I hope it lives up to my expectations, as part 1 on the original Xbox was fantastic and part 2 while not as good, was still a solid effort on the Xbox 360.

[cyborg6971]

Yeah right five hours bs. Troll you don't even have a ps. Ravens suck. Ray Ray is a murdering thug wouldn't want a douche of that size on my team.

[Raven_Nomad]

Wow Kid, who is the troll? You have 1 bubble. If you've played God OF War 3, you'd know it's a relatively short game.

[Jazz4108]

Eif you look at my comment when gow3 cam out thats wxactly what i thought. its a 5 hour game with no mp. so much for using blu ray

[Lirky]

Hey um team ninja how come you make the angles for ninja gaiden sigmas sorta fixed or broken?

At least bayonetta was well thought out.

[JusenkyoGuide]

imagine if he said god of war is outdated! we would have a real war on our hands lol.

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

Bayonetta was the best till now in this generation in hack`n slash games in gameplay aspect !

[Troll-without-Bridge]

GoW 3's gamepay was outdated in comparison to DMC3 or NG (4 direction dodge for the lulz) Bayonetta had a terrific gameplay, but it got a bit convoluted.

Expecting NG3 to surpass that with polish and smooth gameplay.

[Amaterasu5]

ummm DMC3 gameplay was outdated itself...compared to GoW1
the series is dead now,,,and after DmC5 is revealed,it has become a zombie :(

4-D dodge?its 360 degrees...and if thats funny 4 u,DMC3 had 2-direction dodge,,and u had to press aim+direction(left or right only) and had to be in the right position :P
and btw they added hermes shoes and icarus' wings to gow3,and the new DmC has a chain like sword for gods sake,even dmc is now copying gow

i find Ultimate ninja storm more entertaining than NG to be honest,controlling the char sucks too much dude

so please stop this urge to try trolling gow just because it took over the number 1 spot of hack and slash xD the 3 gow games are no.1/2/3 best HnS in terms of everything,EVEN in critics and popularity contests :) so GET OVER IT.

[Troll-without-Bridge]

Listen buddy, i have a few rules when it comes to web forums and things of sorts:

1- don't bother engaging in discussions with people who don't even bother having an avatar;

2- don't bother engaging in discussion with people who were born in the mid 90's and think GoW is something to write home about;

3- Im not interested in any sort of popularity contest that doesn't involve semi-naked women in a bikini or wet T-shirt.

[Amaterasu5]

well then how come u replied to my comment haha
so i guess ur a 80's dude? who gives a sht lul

u just dont know what to say cuz what im saying is all true :P

god of war IS something you wr- wait what the Eff is that supposed to mean
anyways god of war is the best HnS
and let me add some new rules for ya
1-dont talk about stuff u dont know and when u cant answer u talk random stuff about the other guys age,or some porn topics...creepy dude...
2.stop saying dont bother in every sentence
3.stop using numbers -.-

[newn4gguy]

Hahahahaha!!!

When he makes a game even half as good as Devil May Cry 1 or 3, then we'll talk. Until then, this guy is a joke. Bayonetta was brilliant!

Edit: Sadly, I did not read the article first. : / I feel like a tool. Sorry.

I have to say though...that NG2 may have a lot of moves, but they are each so uninspired that there's no purpose to use them all.

[Troll-without-Bridge]

Hw is not criticizing bayonetta in any way, in fact he says that NGII is outdated as well. This doesnt apply only to combat, but game design, missions and structure. Those elements haven't changed since, well, DMC or even the first NG.

[Masta Kaos]

DMC3, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and God Of War 3 are the best....

[floetry101]

I loved both Bayonetta and Castlevania. They were overlooked for the more accessible God of War III, which is also a great game. It didn't have the sheer variety that the former two games did. Bayonetta is the finest action game I've played in some time though. The controls are so tight and the game always demanded the best, without feeling overtly cheap (there were times, oh god there were times).

[CaptainGreece]

I honestly like Ninja Gaiden gameplay more then Bayonetta and God of War.

[gamingdroid]

I loved NG! However, Hayashi is saying to much with little prior work to show for it. The things he added to NG Sigma 2 isn't an improvement at all and in some instances, actually made the game significantly worse!

“Difficulty level is not the main element we are focusing on,” Hayashi explained.

That's just one of the hallmarks of Ninja Gaiden series! More and more, I'm wondering if Hayashi is going to ruin this series.

[therapist]

bayonetta, to me, ws utter trash, the only thing that felt ok, were the controls, they were smooth and fluid.

But,

The enviroments were boring to me
the grahics were crap( rented the 360 version as everyone said the graphics were better on it)
the story was idiotic
the enimes were terrible designs

I found only the controls to be redeeming in this game,

everything else a steaming turd!

That said, ninja gaiden 2 to was complete crap combared to the original on xbox or ps3 remake!

[danielle007]

I agree, the controls were amazing.

But, the environments were awesome. The graphics were very pretty, the story was hilarious and over the top, and don't even talk about the enemies. You get to do torture moves on ANGELS, and super creepy ones at that. Plus, the bosses were all so epic and amazingly huge.

I feel like you're full of shit, and perhaps rented the wrong game.

[Krimmson]

So because he has different opinions from you, you say that he's full of shit.

Classy.

[danielle007]

Bayonetta is amazing.

But, I honestly don't think he meant it as an insult. I think he meant he's not going to try to take much from Bayonetta, because it's over a year old now, and they want to do something completely new for Ninja Gaiden 3. I think his focus is on revamping the series.

[TardcoreGamer]

Seriously...Anyone who has played bayonetta before can attest that it's gameplay is not outdated by any means.. On the contrary it's more complex and deep than the other action games out. If anyone likes the GOW/DMC style games do yourself a favor and buy immediately! It's like $20 now!

[WiIIiam]

He's definitely not criticizing any game in particular, but rather the genre as a whole. As usual, the headline is intentionally misleading so it can attract hits and create flamewars. Speaking of flamewars, I'll just say that Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Black/Sigma, and the original God of War are currently the best the genre has to offer. Throw DMC 3 in there too.

[therapist]

bayonetta is the worst dmc wannabe i have ever played

every god of war game = better

every ninja gaiden game = better

freaking dmc2 was better...well, thats a bit harsh

but i hated bayonetta

[Trevonn]

the creator of bayonetta is the creator of dmc you tool

[Flewid638]

And? What's your point? He thinks all those games are better than Bayonetta. What does that have to do with the creator? He created DMC, its a great game. He created Bayonetta, and it sucks. People do that. THey sometimes create sucky things, and sometimes they create great things. Now you know.

[Trevonn]

@CDzNutts my point is him calling bayonetta a dmc wannabe is stupid the rest of the comment? i couldnt care less

[Djinn]

LOL, I doubt Ninja Gaiden 3 will be half as fun bayonetta. Hell, it won't even be half as fun GOWIII.

[Ashriel]

I don't know what he means by "old" design wise, let's see if NG3 is that different when they reveal it.

[midgard227]

i hated bayonetta's character, her story, the way she acted and actually i hated everyone but cereza (the lil version of her) the gameplay was cool and good yes but wasnt to challenging, some bosses i beat without gettin hit.

ninja gaiden u MUST block or face death. the camera is wonky because its extremely hard to keep a good camera on a game so fast paced. if u made the camera as fast as the game then u wud get dizzy from all the panning. the only way to make it easier to follow the action is to put fixed camera angles like dmc and bayonetta. have it so u cant control the camera. thats the only way, and thats sorta lame and doesnt look as awesome.

well, i cannot wait for NG3, ts gonna be a beastly game, im really hoping kasumi is playable or is atleast in the story

and people while GOW3's gameplay was good its nothing compared to dmc, bayonetta, and NG. platforming and story are good tho

[MaideninBlack]

Very much agreed.

[yume-k]

I think there is typo or something, even that idiot can't make a game that can compete with Bayonetta "gameplay wise". I think he wanted to say "GOW3 is Outdated" and that's a fact.

[user858621]

Thems fighting words

[Haseo106]

They can kiss asses because Bayonetta is better than their last two previous titles. And Bayonetta 2 will be better than Ninja Gaiden 3

[DangerTick]

Bayonetta was garbage anyways so of course games like God of War 3 & Ninja Gaiden 3 will be better.

[Venoxn4g]

I liked everything in that game, funny story with jokes, adrenaline tight gameplay, controls and more...I will want to replay it a lot of times more than GOW3...it was a good game too, but, BAYONETTA KICK ASS!!!! :) I wish for bayonetta 2 and a new one on 3DS!!! :)

[TheMutator]

i smell envy here!!!

[Rashonality]

less yapping more showing

[DevilishSix]

This game director has made two mistakes.

First he has ticked off the core fans of the series by saying they don't care about the difficulty when developing this game. That is unbelievably obtuse to say, because the true fans of this game series pride themselves in mastering the combat in different difficulty settings. Dumbed down is not going to work for this series.

Second he just trashed on Bayonetta which represents the best combat gameplay this genre has offered this generation..

Team Ninja was better off with Itagaki then this pretender.

[ATiElite]

Yeh Ninja Gaiden was all about being Hardcore. The Devs need to look at what makes the series the classic that it is and stay focused on that instead of talking trash about a new entry into the genre that they help create. Ninja Gaiden just gets progressively harder during the course of play and while Bayonetta was a nice arcade experience throughout.

some gamers get so bent out of shape.
Bayonetta = great arcade experience
Ninja Gaiden = The great Hardcore classic experience

Gamers need to realize that games of the same type may differ in style, gameplay, and if it's a Core experience or an arcade experience.

maybe one day Bayonetta will become a classic like NG but until then just enjoy both and hope that in Bayonetta 2....she gets all the way naked so we can she if Bayonetta is clean shaven!

[DevilishSix]

I am not going to repeat what you said, but some might find that offensive. What are you some kind of child or maybe you are looking for sympathy, because your just a product of a liberal socialist neo marxist society and union educated. Yes, yes that is what it is, cause it explains your mentality.

[ATiElite]

Jesus FN Christ...hide your immoralities cause those Dam Neo Cons are running rampant AGAIN. Didn't know I was in Sarah Palin's Alaska. it was a random joke for crying out loud.

N4G promotes being offensive and that's why we all come here. it panders to liberals and immature ppl by reeling them in with electronic characters, Red Hot tags, video games, and the occasional (like clockwork) article of Hot girl this or Sexy game character that. There's a Catherine article running 24/7 on N4G as proof.

I'm sincerely sorry that you found my comment offensive as it was done in jest and not aimed at anyone but a mere comment to garner laughter but.....get over it! your on the Internet you either
A. will hear or see worse in the next ten minutes or
B. can go to Google and find an online psychiatrist for a counseling session.

[sich92]

bayonetta was never good,it was a DMC ripoff to begin with,
and the only reason it was kinda polular is cuz the character is a slut,which draws armies of trolls
gameplay wasnt that good,too many combos for nothing
[disagrees by armies of horny trolls now]

God of war 3 is the King of H&S since it launched,and III is the best game this gen ...so far

as for NG,its not that good at all,bad control of character ,that doesnt make it hardcore,,,it makes it stupid,some moves are executed alone without me doing crap >.<
but idk about NG3

[lee_ten]

bayonetta was great. i want ng3 to be good but don't get cocky team ninja.

[HacSawJimThugin]

Outdated...really? That sounds like jealousy and envy. I still play Bayonetta a few times every week...can't say the same for any other hack n slash titles.

I sold my PS3 before God of War 3 came out (it took too long...back then the PS3 had very little to choose from) and haven't played it so I am in no position to judge. I did play the others and Bayonetta kills them all in game play. Hands down one of my favorite games of all time. I can wait for the sequel...NG3 has some big shoes to fill. Let's see if they posses 1/10 of the creativity that Bayonetta brought to the genre or will it be the same ole same ole....outdated....STFU!!!

[x5exotic]

lul trolls all GoW games are the highest rated in the H&S genre xD all 3 games take the top 3 spots so STFU and dont even try bringing it to this article,its Bayo vs NG.

bayo totally sucked ass and so did NGs2
but what the producer says is totally true,its not only old
its not original,copies DMC,and not even as 1/10 as fun as DMC2 for crying out loud >.< wtf

[WildArmed]

Heh.
I guess I'm the only one that loved DMC4's combat system.
Only H&S game that I played the game on EVERY difficulty.
I skipped a few difficulties in GoW3/NG2..
but not for DMC, the game is just too awesome imo.

In terms of combat system it'd be:
1. DMC
2. Ninja Gaiden / GoW
3. Castlevania

I played and loved all those games.
I'm just happy we are getting more and more quality H&S games <3

[Raider69]

I guess im going to get disappoint with NG3!By lowering the difficulty,cuting on gore,and making it more noob friendly this guy is just ruining what made this series the best in the hack and slash gendre!

[Ponurasky]

LOLZ I see Hayashi want to be just like Itagaki. Too bad he don't have the skill to back up his bold words.