1 Million Sales Benchmark "Preposterous"

If a game sells one million copies it is considered by many to have been successful – but that's rubbish, according to one developer.

[KILLERAPP]

Sales are for the developer and there share holders since am nether I just care about games. There had been many great games that don’t sell as much but we will always remember. Perfect example for many is Ico and shadow of the colossus nether sold extremely well but both are one of my favorite games of all time and am sure am not the only one. 20 years from now all we are going to remember is the great games of each generation, not how well they sold…

[trounbyfire]

"Sales are for the developer and there share holders since am nether I just care about games"

STFU !!!

OK we track movies, books, tv shows, and everything that is sold so why do we have pretentious pricks like you thats all , i don't care about sales, share holders and finances it for the employment and management .

well just like with movies, books, tv show and everything sold people LIKE TO KNOW THOSE THING. its why movies are ranked my money made, its why we have best sellers, why tv show are canceled.

but games NO SIR games are not connected to the real world this culture is in a bubble. we can talk about sales or fanboism because they don't exist outside gaming culture.

WELL THEY DO AND ITS NORMAL get over it

[Nicaragua]

RAAAAAR !

[Active Reload]

Its too bad people rather comment on what the first commentor said instead of the article. I really like HV and Mr. Nofsinger, I think they're awesome. Like he said, if they would've spent a "Gear's budget", it would've been suicide, but then again, I don't see how that money would've went into a game on the Wii unless it was advertising.

[jidery]

u mad bro?

[green]

"Sales are for the developer and there share holders since am nether I just care about games."

IMO that is absolute bulls*it and and gamer (especially the N4G crowd) that say they don't care about sales is lying.There are countless number of great titles from gens past that will never see a seguel because they flopped financially. And as a gamer, that bothers me and should bother you as well.

As for me, i do care about sales a lot. I care about my fav. franchises selling well because if they flop, then 8/10 cases, i will not get to play a sequel.

I care about sales because if innovative titles or new IP's sell well, then it will push devs and publishers to further invest in more innovative titles and new IP's.

[AEtherbane]

I actually totally agree with Nofsinger here.

[UnwanteDreamz]

So, to the oh so smart people who care so much about sales. Tell me why they matter when you can only affect them slightly? You make sales out to be so important to gamers then tell me what you plan to do about sales of those games that don't get a sequel?

Oh you can't do anything about it but moan and complain? Tekll me again why it matters to me?

If you support the game and it is good then you did your part. Caring about the sales either way has no effect on the situation. All sales topics succede at is giving fanboys ammo against each other. If you were so smart then you would understand it is out of your control so not worth worrying about.

Gamers should hope their favorite games sell well but at the end of the day if you look at the kinds of people wjo care about sales of books and movies are in one of two groups.

1. Those who have a vested interest.
2. Those who are fans to a degree that is sad.

Quick question can you tell me the top five grossing video game franchises without googling it?

If you can't then you are full of it when you say it matters so much. If it did we would all know the answer to my question.

[trounbyfire]

its as simple as wanting to know the numbers. to see how games stack up sales wise to other games just like with movies , or albums.

we don't get off on them but its nice to know. simple

now you think because of my comments that i a sales this and sales that but you would be wrong. i like to know them and rarely talk about them check my comments. see i don't like pretentious pricks that say sales are for stockholders, you should own every console, and fanboism is stupid

again do people not follow movies and music ranking and sales week by week.

should i have android, iphone, and all other types of phones NO i pick my favorite.

answer me this since i answered you
why in the gaming culture is having a favorite a bad thing. do you have a favorite sports team if so wouldn't that be stupid and childish.

having a favorite is human yet gaming culture now acts as if its a drug that killing millions.

[UnwanteDreamz]

Having a favorite something is fine. Being happy that your favorite product sold well is fine. I only take issue with the way sales are used to justify a persons opinion. Sales are also used to downplay a persons opinion.

Again people who track these things week by week are the kind of people who I can't really relate to. Be it movies, TV, music, books or games. I enjoy these things because they give me entertainment. Sales? Well sales don't factor into my equasion because they do not make me more satisfied with the product.

You didn't like this guy saying he doesn't care about sales because you do? You took exception to this statement. - "Sales are for the developer and there share holders since am nether I just care about games."

^^^ This is just an opinion and you don't have to agree but when you say any gamer saying they don't care about sales is lying- Then I think you have crossed a line from having an opinion to forcing it on others.

[yewles1]

"By and large people look at it and they say, if it's not a million unit seller it's a flop. That's preposterous."

We need to put this guy in a wrestling match with Peter "It's Not Great til it Sells 5 Million Copies" Molyneux.

"If we'd spent the Gears of War money, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. We'd be back working on something else."

And yet people praise Epic for spending "only" $12 Million on Gears 2 development...

[Kalowest]

Yup your right, It really doesnt take that much money to make a Gears game.

[Active Reload]

The first Gears cost $20 million like most of these games this gen, even Ucharted had the same price tag. If a game's engine is well optimized you don't have to spend that sort of money again thats why the second was less. I suppose Gears 3 will cost more than both, but it'll show. Somebody from EA actually estimated Gears 3 is running at $50 million, but I seriously doubt it...

Edit: I may be wrong...
http://consoles.gwn.com/new...

As the author said though, all things weren't tallied up and I have a hard time believing the game only cost $10 mil, especially when I read an article quoting Cliff saying $20 mil.

[Elven6]

Why don't you link to Cliff's statement then?

The actual development could cost less, it's the advertising and such that tallies up the costs. And how could Uncharted 2's price tag logic not apply with Gears of War?

[Active Reload]

"Why don't you link to Cliff's statement then?

The actual development could cost less, it's the advertising and such that tallies up the costs. And how could Uncharted 2's price tag logic not apply with Gears of War? "

I'm busy? Anyway, google is your friend. And I don't understand your Uncharted question...

[Inside_out]

Judging by the quality of your game, you definitely should be making a profit off of 100,000 in sales. The Iphone has better looking titles...seriously.

Don't ever compare your game to the big boys of gaming like Halo, Gears or COD. Those are big budget titles no different than a big Hollywood movie. They have teams of engineers trying to find every little bit of power from those systems. The soundtracks alone probably cost as much as your game. Hans Zimmer ( a legend ) made more producing the score for COD MW2 than your game cost to make.

I'm guessing that the advertising budget for Halo or COD would dwarf the production costs of your game and many others. Enslaved was a budget title and Ninja theory, while good, is a budget dev no different than a team like Grin was, who BTW, is now no more.

Funny thing tho...that hasn't stop anyone from selling their games for less even tho they spent far less developing it...Hmmmm...like you.

So the question is, why bring it up at all??? Sounds like your looking for a little next gen love from the big publishing houses out there and that you work is very affordable and profitable...RIGHT???

[bitboi]

big budget titles does not always equal a great game.

[grailly]

you're so right. I've been playing COD blops this afternoon offline with a friend, and oh god does that game suck. The game crashed twice, the AI is nearly non-existant, and there were several bugs (i.e. killstreaks were not useable).

I don't know what a cod game budget is - it surely isn't that high- but I would guess at least 10mio$ and they aren't really great games(since cod4 at least)

[Kalowest]

Most of the money for those goes(Halo, Gears or COD)goes towards their Ads. Only 12million to make Gears 2.

[DelbertGrady]

Depends on development costs of the game. Big budget needs big sales.

[chasegarcia]

in other words: Low budget games like The Conduit can make money selling 300-400 thousand copies because well they did spend a lot of money making it.

I would like to add: Scare money don't make money.

[MsmackyM]

HV had a very valid point. Just as with the movie industry the most profitable movies were not necessarily big budget movies. For example My Big Fat Greek Wedding, and 40 yr Old Virgin comes to mind. I'm sure HV and any other developer would love to see COD sales, but as long as developers keep their budgets within their sale projections, they can be successful long enough, and build a large enough fan base to make that big budget blockbuster game.

[SuperStrokey1123]

Kinda off topic but i rather enjoyed the conduit.

[rumplstilts]

I recognized all of the massive flaws with it but still ended up spending more time with it than 90 percent of shooters this gen. Must be the control scheme...

[testerg35]

I don't understand the "we don't care about sales" from gamers. If devs don't get a return on their games, then no sequels. Simple as that.

[Seferoth75]

Sony fanboys are desperate for any excuse to justify their PS3 being in last place with very low game sales.
Just look at the first poster. Named off 2 PS2 titles that while great will never see a sequel and he acts like its okay that that happened and he loves the game.

Its nothing but fanboy ignorance

[ChickeyCantor]

I really don't get you.
You always start out with Sony fanboys this, Sony fanboys that.

Why even care so much? If you really want to make a point, why not just keep the directional attacks out?

[yewles1]

"Sony fanboys are desperate for any excuse to justify their PS3 being in last place with very low game sales."

Yet you cry every morning to see PS3's still on store shelves, that people still buy them at all, and that Sony still hasn't announced their moving out of the gaming business. You still wonder why the PS3 hasn't gone the way of the Dreamcast, huh? XD

[Seferoth75]

Oh I'd love for you to post just one single comment where I said any of that load of BS kid. Please but make sure it says just what you posted. Now you spinning my comments because the truth hurts you.

[ZombieAssassin]

What do you mean ps3 games have low sales??? I'm pretty sure most Ps3 multiplats sell around the same as their 360 counter-part (sometimes a little lower sometimes a littler higher).

The exclusives do pretty good too, I'm pretty sure GoW3, Uc, Uc2 have all sold between 3.5-4.5 million...MGS4 sold over 4.5m GT5p did over 4.5, GT5 over 5.5m, Resistance FOM did over 3.5, LBP did over 4, Killzone 2 did 2.5m.

The only xbox exclusives that have really sold more are Halo 3/Reach and Gears1/2, in most other cases the Ps3 exclusives outsell all the rest and there's more of them.

Oh yea...and Ico and SoTC do have a sort of sequel called The Last Guardian, they are all kind of spiritual successors to each other.

Ontopic to the article: I think as long as they make money on a game and establish a well liked franchise it's a success.

[Seferoth75]

Compared to 10million or so for Halo on 360 and 20 million for Mario games on Wii. Hell Wii had a 20 million seller at the install PS3 is at now. Yet PS3 cant manage it.

You bring up MGS, it is the second best selling exclusive on Ps3. It came out when the install base was a quarter of what it is today yet recent releases like Killzone, Heavy Rain, Modnation, 3D dot Heroes, and so on cant even touch it in sales.

Dorta sequels don't count kid and even that game could bomb like White knight did. Funny how you Sony PS3 guys hyped that one too and it was completely forgotten about

[ZombieAssassin]

Yea 1 exclusive in xbox history does 10 million and its all you talk....nice. Halo this halo that, dude halo is a kids game...gears is a great game but halo is for kids get use to it...and it still can't do Super Mario numbers kinda sad.

Why don't we add up all the numbers of ps3 exclusives then compare them to the xbox...i bet ps3 exclusives have more sold, might be because they're are more of them but oh well it's not like that could possibly be a bad thing.

You tripped urself up too with the whole MGS thing because you say it sold that much more with a smaller install base but the same can be said about halo 3 it sold way better than every other xbox exclusive even though it had a smaller install base.

[hatchimatchi]

Seriously, Sidar nailed it with his comment.

Seferoth, every comment you make always manages to be about sony fanboys and how sony is doomed. Get over it, you've been doing this crap for years now. It's pretty pathetic.

Sheesh.

[insomnium2]

This is so OLD....... I think I might even die if someone brings these same out-of-context-comments to the table again. It is just OLD!

@sefer

oldoldoldoldoldoldoldold..... ........

[Zinc]

I'm not sure if HVS is a private company or if they have shareholders and are public... I think they are private and are not publicly traded. I would have to think they are, because only a private company can get away with that kind of mentality. I think more studios need to get free of their publically traded publishing masters.

If you are making any profit off of something you produce, you are winning. If you break even, you are still pretty much winning, because you are covering all the costs to run the business and pay everybody involved, including yourself - the owner.

Small businesses already understand this, because this is how they operate. When a company gets too big and they grow too much or too fast for the ability to sustain that growth without a guarantee of outselling their previous projects numbers, they have made a terrible mistake. A good business owner realizes that you can't count on there always being growth. You have to plan your business on what it can get by on, not what you think it will be like 16 months from now. Always plan on a tight budget and only expand when you can afford it.

These game developers have gotten so use to sucking on the teat of the big publishers, that they don't know how to manage their money or run their businesses. So, that's why eventually, once they get a taste of that sweet candy that is publisher money, they eventually can't handle the swings of business and need to be bought out by those same pushers... I mean publishers that got them hooked... and then the publishers turn into their pimps. It's pretty sad.

If you sign a deal with a publisher and they start dispersing money to you... you are locked in with them and pretty much at their mercy. If they decide that they want the game released earlier than you would like and you don't have time to finish something to your satisfaction or have the 2 extra months to test it and make sure it works like it should, you can't do much about it. It's a horrible process. You would think a publisher would want the product to be as good as it reasonably could be, but that's not always the case. They have quarterly profit/loss sheets to deal with and a board to placate. In many cases, the higher-ups in the publishing group have their bonuses dictated by how soon they can ship a product or maybe delay it until next quarter. It has nothing to do with the love of the industry or what they are producing. That concept is so foreign to the corporate side of things, it might as well be in Sanskrit.

People who think piracy or used games are hurting the industry need to take a long sobering look at what is the true malignant force.

[hatchimatchi]

I like High Voltage and the staff, they seem like really nice, hardworking people. I still think the conduit was a horrible game though. We'll see how the sequel is, they were on an IGN podcast the other week. It sounds like they really took to heart all the issues people had with the first and are trying hard to correct them.