Playstation 3: Hackers respond to lawsuit, release all tools to public

Fail0verflow is the group responsible for a majority of the work that was done in the PlayStation 3 hacking community. Making it possible for the lay person to install custom firmware on the PlayStation 3 ultimately bypassing the system security. More recently, Sony filed a lawsuit that named multiple persons including the head of this group. In response to the lawsuit that Sony has filed, which ordered the group to terminate any activity, fail0verflow has released all of the tools they created in the process.

[M4ndat0ry_1nstall]

"please clone this repository and avoid to the big fish eats the small fish using the money and the recurses of one Multinational against talented people that seeking new hombrew uses in the PS3 console and the return of Linux"

Sony should actually try and address the "hack" itself instead of single entities. What they (Sony) are doing will only lead to more interest and other "hackers" that want to make a name for themselves.

*claps* for the hackers

[fail0verflow]

Sue them all

[MAJ0R]

hackers just got themselves in deeper shit, but I guess their mentality was "were all fucked anyways so we might as well release everything"

@below
so I guess if someone agrees that they will give a person 100 dollars if the packers lost against the eagles in a legal document they wouldn't have to and could just make up excuses? no they couldn't, Sony's ToU is a legal agreement so you are breaking the law in a sense if you break it

[Kurylo3d]

how have hackers gotten themselves in deeper shit? its perfectly legal for them to hack hardware.. tehy bought it.. they own it. Even if sonys terms say they cant it doesnt matter because sony saying they cant is not legal.. therefore a judge will throw out sonys suit.

Sony can say we own you in the terms.. and u can hit accept... doesnt exactly mean they own you because thats not something they can do legally. They can legally say you cant resell it or something like that..

[evrfighter]

called it. Sony just unleashed a can of worms they'll wish they never messed with.

[Danteh]

oh sh!t

[Tony-A]

Dude, what you have to understand is that any lawsuit can be put against you whether the offense is illegal or not. It all depends on the contract you both agreed on. If someone says they'll sue you for doing something against the contract, they can sue you.

It DOES NOT matter if it's legal, illegal, whatever. Breaking a contract you agreed to is reason to sue. I'm not saying it's 100% that they're gonna lose, but it's gonna be pretty damn hard to get away, especially when they go and do this.

[UnwanteDreamz]

If the judge doesn't throw out a lawsuit?

Do these guys think they can defend themselves against Sony? They must have deep pockets because Sony can afford to drag a legal case out until these guys turn into poor people who can't afford internet. They can do that without ever winning the case.

Look at what Activision is doing to West and them. These guys lose money just defending themselves.

[Eamon]

The terms and conditions only really apply to PSN anyway.

Sony should just be like MS and start bans instead of trying to sue the hackers.

And what if Sony loses the case which leads to making jailbreak legal even on console. That would be pretty bad for Nintendo and MS too.

Well, it will be interesting to see how it all turns out. I think the failoverflow team said they won't be visiting America in the near future lol. But Geohot lives in US so he'll be forced to go to court. Is he wealthy enough to have a good lawyer let alone an actuall legal team like Sony has.

[Acquiescence]

Sony resorted to filing a lawsuit against them instead. What do hackers know about lawsuits and litigation? Nada. How do they react? By throwing their toys out of the pram. Not a smart move either, seeing as how they've given Sony even more to work with in court.

Sue them all [2]

[rockleex]

Haha, they know they're f*cked.

They HAVE to release everything so that at least other people can continue their work for them while they're in jail.

Oh well, they'll just get even WORSE sentences for doing this. Lol.

And yes, its completely against the law for them to illegally find Sony's root key, release it to the public, and also use Sony's key to sign their unauthorized codes.

[Ju]

They don't know what they are doing.

If they are getting away with this, this has an impact not only for Sony.

Say, if this is "legalized" what that means is, no trade secret is save any more. Anybody can obtain information no matter how and if you are faster and make it public you win.

This cannot be the direction we want to go. I am all for open source. But it is to the discretion of the author if he/she wants do release IP into public domain or not. Not for somebody who obtained the information through dubious channels.

I am all for freedom, but this goes way beyond that. This means we do not have to obey any license agreement at all. I do not agree with that.

[MintBerryCrunch]

people say that Sony have deep pockets....but to go after every hacker that has jailbroken their PS3 which is not illegal would rack up the costs for Sony, why do you think companies dont go after the thousands and millions of people that D/L movies and games through piracy....it would cost too much money to regain anything that they lost in the process...its a lose lose situation...one thing that interests me is that Sony is suing over the release of the Master Key, the problem is that Sony cant copyright LETTERS and NUMBERS...do know that this is different from name branding like "Playstation"...so we will see how this will pan out...you guys think that these guys will go bankrupt defending themselves...but there will be lawyers out there that will gladly defend them to make a name for themselves if there is a chance that Sony is in the wrong by looking at previous cases about jailbroken/hacked machines i.e. Iphone/Ipod

[nycredude]

I am really getting sick of coming on N4g looking for gaming news and seeing some stupid article about hacking every day. And what is sad i that most of these artciles get to 1000 degrees and have so much people commenting. What happened to gaming for fun and gaming news? This is a sad indication of the state of the industry.

It is no longer just about games and having fun. THis generation is all about fanboy wars, ripping people off, winning at all cost, underhanded tactics bullshit!

This generation sucks.

And for all those who defend hackers please stop it. Defend them all you what with you us against the world mentality. Love the big corporations or not, they are the ones making these games we love, not these thieves. What the fuck has these hackers done for me? Jack shit. In fact by teir actions they are hurting the companies that make the games we love, and in the process threatening the future of the games industry.

I can't believe people are so naive they don't see this. These guys are nothing more than some kids who rebelled against their parents when younger and have grown up still stuck in that stage of their lives.

Homebrew and all that stuff is great for people who like it but the games are what matter not these homebrew apps.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[ABizzel1]

Some of you people just don't get it. They didn't just hack the PS3, they accessed everything within it. It's not just some, Oh now we can play Call of Duty for free".

They have complete control of the system, meaning if Sony puts out a firmware forcing you to upgrade, they can put one out forcing you to downgrade.

They can play pirated games (which is illegal).

They have access to PSN account information, which means if you have your credit or debit card on there, they can steal your information (this is illegal and a breach of contract/terms of agreement).

Sony is suing them because they made this all possible, and now by spreading it across the web they've practically given everyone free access to your PSN account, email, address, city, state, EVERYTHING.

Sony has no choice, but to sue them in order to protect themselves from being sued by PlayStation users (who'll have a hard time winning again because they accepted the contract/ terms of agreement).

This is no laughing matter. If you have any personal information or credit cards on PSN, you need to take it off NOW, and start using PSN cards, but even that will only delay someone if they really want your information, because there's a footnote of your credit card left on every system you use it on (how do you think the police find the last place you used your credit card? Guess what hackers can do the same thing.) This is a threat to everyone on PSN, and if anything like this happens you can beat they're going to get tons of lawsuits for the people affected and will be facing jail time. This has nothing to do with Big fish vs little fish like the claim. This is a potential 40 million plus user identity theft lawsuit.

Thankfully I have a new debit card, and my old one is deactivated. Protect yourself, because everyone thinks it can't happen to them until it does.

If you're going to hack a system, keep it to yourself. Don't be stupid and try to show off to the world. The internet has ruined and caught so many lives, because people don't think before they post.

@nycredude

It's not this generation of console it's the people of this generation. I hate to say I'm a part of Generation Y. For the most part our generation is immoral and uneducated. I'm thankful I was raised by a good parent, because these people on here, and many other sites are just ignorant, and thanks to the internet their ignorance has spread across the world.

[stevenhiggster]

@nycredude

I wish I could agree with you twice, that is one of the most sensible things I have read on this site in a while.

[ct03]

January 11, 2011

[...]
We will help our friends at Sony understand this by mirroring the geohot jailbreak files at Carnegie Mellon.
[...]
Note to Sony lawyers: No doubt you're eager to rack up another billable hour by sending legal threats to me and my university. Before you go down that unhappy road, check out what happened the last time a large corporation tried to stop the mirroring of technical information here: The Gallery of CSS Descramblers. Have you learned anything in ten years?

David S. Touretzky
Research Professor of Computer Science
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213

[WhittO]

lol really?

Like they werent going to do this anyway and make profit of it.

I also agree with Sony totally disabling PS3s both online and offline, you want to break the law and hack your ps3 and play illegally copied games, then you should prepare to face the consequence of that.

I download torrents etc and if it comes back to bite me, well that's my fault.

[HolyOrangeCows]

That's cute. They feel like they've stuck it to Sony....except now Sony's case is as solid as concrete.

I think they could have gotten away with it, but now they're releasing all of the tools, codes, software, etc in a very public way (And with very obvious intent to extort)......they're boned. Not a smart move.

[BattleAxe]

These guys are going to get sued so f***n hard, that the judge is going to order them to live in a slum in Tijuana Mexico, and they will not be allowed to have money in their possesion for ten years, or they will be sent to a U.S. "secret prison" .....muahahahaha

[Jack Meahoffer]

Even if Sony wins the case against these hackers which is very possible and gets them cruxified upside down over a sewage pit they just released the tools which made the root problem for Sony worse...

You guys are more interested in some kind of revenge or something. The cat is out of the bag. The master key is already on the internet and can't be stopped with any legal action.

The only real discussion here is what technical options Sony has to mitigate the piracy problem. Everything else is just a side story including this lawsuit.

[nveenio]

This lawsuit isn't about the hardware that was purchased. It's about the theft of proprietary software, licensed software and the transfer of encryption algorithms with the intent to continue the violations.

These hackers are screwed. The lawsuit may not stop piracy, but these a-holes that thought they were tough sh!t are gonna have tears rolling down their cheeks while getting packed from behind in prison.

[RememberThe357]

A lot of you are not really seeing the big picture. I know you love to hate on Sony but think about it. Do you really think these hackers would have held on to these tools that they have put so much work into? Hell no. They made it for the hacking community and they were going to release it to them.

Your seeing a cause and effect that isn't there. Sony knew these guys were going to release everything they had eventually so it came down to do we sue now or later. And instead of running away scared they took action the only way they could. If you had invested 3 billion dollars in a product and someone was threatening on your return you'd sue the shit out of them too, and don't act like you wouldn't.

The hackers are going to try to act like victims but they are only reaping what they have sown. They break into platforms allowing piracy then get made when people get mad about it. It's like they're lost in their own little world and hate it when people bring them back to reality where your actions have consequences.

This "can of worms" was already opened. It would have been opened if Sony sued or not.

And you guys are acting like they've never done this before? I read the documents and Geohot was served with and they had tons of case references of hackers and pirates being successfully sued. We'll really have to wait and see how far this goes.

@inveni0: Well said.

[pixelsword]

People don't realize why these people are likely going to jail and doing hard time for one reason only, forget what you know:

1. The ramifications of their actions in respect of other events already in motion.

- If they let them off, this will strengthen the case for the soldier who released the information for Wikileaks.

- if they jail them and make a law closing loopholes against such actions before the wikileaks trial, this will strengthen the case against the soldier.

- having Sony win would also possibly allow a reason to establish an international law against accessing computers, which works in favor of a world government law (some might argue, and if you believe in that stuff)

Now, seeing that a US computer was "hacked" and are using international (and some say illegal) force to get one guy who merely "released" information (didn't hack, btw), what's a bunch of geeks gonna matter to them if it means that they will get what they want in court?

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the members in the fail0verflow group was a mole.

This was not a wise move at all.

[Ryudo]

@pixelsword

The day I go to jail and do hard time for modding hardware/software I bought legally is the day the PC industry officially dies.

There's no way on earth Sony is winning this one, and anyone who wants Sony to win this one is a retarded idiot.

[Ju]

You can do what ever you want with the things you bought in your own domain (e.g. at home or in your business).

It is another thing to publish such information (or sell it, which is publishing for money).

I think this is the fine line here.

The information retrieved was certainly protected by license agreements. Hacking them, installing homebrew for your own use is fine. Publishing what you learned however, I am certain, violates some sort of agreement you "sign" when you use the product.

How far does this go? Next time someone hacks the master key of the security system of your bank account and publishes that, it is still OK? If we follow through on the hackers argumentation, nothing is protected any more. Because it can be applied to any system - that is, if they get away with this.

It is annoying that Sony locks up the PS3 so you can't code for it - I certainly would appreciate it if it would be open. But there are tons of other gadgets available which can satisfy the geeky curiosity.

[deafwing]

the guys at failoverover seriously got an ego problem lol
what's the big deal with having linux on ps3 anyways? I barely have time to enjoy Netflix ... if one wants to program on linux one doesn't need the ps3 for that.

can't they just buy some used laptops/pcs and install gnome and other software on there? that's the lamest reply to a lawsuit if I ever saw one ...

sheesh, guys I know the gentlemen at failoverflow are gennius but hire a lawyer before you all start spouting bs that will dig a 6 foot hole for themselves.

[IcarusOne]

Someone said this: "And what if Sony loses the case which leads to making jailbreak legal even on console. That would be pretty bad for Nintendo and MS too."

And my question is, why do we care if it's bad for these corporations? Do you think they give a shit about what's bad for you/your wallet? I think this could all benefit us as gamers and consumers. Much the same way jailbreaking an iphone can radically enhance its functionality and truly take it to another level.

I'm not in favor of hackers resetting gamer levels and perks and such as I was reading with MW2, but the truth is, it's OUR console once we buy it, not Sony's, not MS's, not Nintendo's. We should be able to do with it what we want. Bottom line, I'm always in favor of openness.

[ComboBreaker]

You're all fogetting the whole point of Sony suing.
The whole point of Sony suing Geo and the hacker crew is not to stop the hacks.

No. The whole point is to make sure Geo and those hackers goes to jail for a very long time.

Jail... a place where bullies rule and we all know how bullies love to pound on the nerds. A perfect place for a nerd like Geo.

[NatureOfLogic]

The PS3 is Hacked.

[Ju]

If the current business model doesn't work no more no more games. Simple.

The whole console business is build around a closed platform. For a reason. Most money is made from license fees. With an open platform, this needs to change; see PC.

If this will lead to no lock down on consoles, later no license fees, no console business. No games. May I remind some here to the video game crash from 85? Is quite a while back. Video gaming almost seized to exist for 1 or 2 years until Nintendo and Sony (and Sega) started to drive it again.

For me, I would like to see a solution which can provide both. And open platform for open source like development and yet a closed gaming platform.

However, pirating kills the gaming market. Not just on consoles. It gives the PC market a run for the money. Sony was open and allowed Linux. Some abused that. Now the base for an open discussion seems to be even further away.

[zeeshan]

I called the very same thing last night! Sony can't stop this sh**storm!

[Theonetheonly]

Good for them. god forbid people got to do something cool that doesnt make sony money.

[Kalipekona]

I am against piracy, but modding your console to enhance it in various ways should be legal.

[itsalive]

Economic Espionage Act of 1996
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Mahr]

"hackers just got themselves in deeper shit, but I guess their mentality was "were all fucked anyways so we might as well release everything"

I assure you, the mentality was almost certainly more along the lines of 'Hmm, Sony is trying to use US copyright laws to charge us with US crimes. It sure is nice to live in Europe!'

[SiLeNt KNighT]

Please use common sense folks. Sony isnt god or your mom. Just because Sony wrote it and you agreed to the terms doesnt mean its set it stone. If you sign a contract with me that states i may kill you if you dont complete the terms doesnt give me the right to kill you. A contract can't break the law. If it does, it becomes void.

all these "you agreed to the TOS so you're outta luck" statements sound so stupid.

I hope sony wins this case against these kids but the fanboys in here will do anything to protect their precious. I love my ps3 as much as any 'normal' person but lets keep it real and stop with the lame defense.

[newhumanbreed]

What's funny is the people saying that this could ruin the gaming industry. lol.

There's money to be made in the gaming industry, and no one is going to stop developing games because of piracy. Look at all the programs on PC that are pirated. I doubt the pirates keep updating them every year. You guys need to look at what's logical. This isn't going to change anything. Sony and developers will just make it harder for people to pirate games on the PS3. No one will stop making games...

[zag]

@MmaFanQc

It's silly to say that as The pirate bay used that for a good 5 or so years before getting sued twice losing twice and having multi million dollar fines against all the people and ended up in jail.

Sure US laws can't be applied but that also doesn't mean you are free to hack stuff while hacking might be legal it might not in euro laws.

but Sony might not fuss majorly about FoF for now as they have Geohot screwed in the US.

Notice that all of FoF's real names and their nick names are used, so if they have all their real names I wonder how much info they actually have on everyone in that group.

As I said people disappear, suddenly go away maybe never to be found again.

Being sued might not be all that bad.

At the end of the day everyone will end up in court at some point, Sony is multi national so it's not like they can't sue them.

[insomnium2]

@ABizzel1

I give the comment of the day to you. There were many runner ups too and I'm sure you know who they are.

[The Lazy One]

"so I guess if someone agrees that they will give a person 100 dollars if the packers lost against the eagles in a legal document they wouldn't have to and could just make up excuses? no they couldn't, Sony's ToU is a legal agreement so you are breaking the law in a sense if you break it"

it's more along the lines of someone making a bet that if the packers won they'd kill someone in a legal document. If the legal document itself has conditions that are illegal it is null and void and the party has no contractual obligation to do anything. And in Europe you are allowed to do whatever you want with your hardware. This lawsuit is going nowhere.

@Ju:
the result is not a dead console industry. The result is a console industry where the manufacturers make sure their system is truly secure before they release it. If sony had just seeded one random number, their system would still be relatively secure. They didn't. That is not hackers faults.

the industry will be FINE. Steam is doing great on the largest open platform around, and the Wii and 360 are both selling better than the PS3 and they are both hacked.

[NewMonday]

Q: what deters crime?
1-ignoring criminals
2-encouraging criminals
3-punishing criminals

[Eamon]

depends if there is a crime though. And that's up to the judge to decide. =/

[Kurt Russell]

And it also depends on what the crime is. The worlds not black and white newmonday - wake up.

[Carbide7]

In all honesty, the only one who seems to be in control here are Sony. I can almost hear them snickering at these hackers' efforts.

[Lord_Doggington]

noobie here

[MmaFanQc]

@Lord_Doggington indeed you are.

[Pandamobile]

I'm sure Sony have shat their pants a bit over this. I doubt they're all sitting back and having laugh.

[Vaud-Villian]

Any control Sony appears to have is illusion at best. There only way out of this mess is to patch every single security code for the entire library of content on the entirety of the PS3. This includes games from developers that are now defunct. No easy task.

[Armyntt]

I agree with Panda. I think people are looking at this wrong. The hackers arent doing this out of fear but the complete opposite. $ony specifically asked to have them cease and desist through the lawsuit. So the hackers then basically said you cant do a damn thing about it and released it. Now $ony has to sue the whole internet.

[MmaFanQc]

@Armyntt, what george hotz and failoverfail did last days pretty much given the munitions sony needed to sue them seriously, they may have opened pendora box, but they also screwed themselves.

now sony will have the money to pretty much make them so poor they wont be able to afford an internet connection

[UnwanteDreamz]

They should address the hack itself and leave the hackers alone?

So the solution is to ignore the root of the problem?

Nawww

[ScentlessApprentice7]

But aside from that, how would it benefit Sony to simply focus on distinguishing the fire and ignoring the gas line? Cut the hackers out and send their a$$es to jail, and they won't be trying to circumvent any solution that Sony provides to the current hack. Divide and conquer!

If Sony were to simply focus on any current hacks alone, hackers would simply waste their days trying to find some OS backdoor and try to break the law and screw Sony over some more.

(Fail0verflow) Claiming that: "you can't put Pandora back in it's box"

Interesting last-ditch swellheaded geek statement, but pointless. Sony and the judicial system can surely but those idiots at Fail0verflow in a box. A big box called Alcatraz Island.

[colonel179]

(Fail0verflow) Claiming that: "you can't put Pandora back in it's box"

Then Sony will bring Kratos to slaughter any hacker that comes their way
:P

(

[IcarusOne]

It's really sad that your heads are so far up Sony's asses that you don't see this is as corporation vs. the little guys. And if you do see it that way, then it's even sadder that you're against the little guys. Nothing that happens here will hurt Sony, but Sony can definitely hurt these guys, thereby stifling and possibly destroying any future possibility for open content. This is bigger than just mods, hacks, and cheats.

Sony should be doing what we want, not the other way around.

[ComboBreaker]

I would be in favor of the little guys, except in this case, the little guys are criminals.

I do not support criminals, no matter how slittle, big, or coporal they are.

[metalanime]

@icarus

so the fact that they are the "little guys" makes it okay to steal and distribute confidential information that will be exploited and spur only more theft?

Its not about supporting sony, its about a few ignorant shi!ts that think its ok to release confidential information that affects sony and potentially psn users' financially, just because that wasnt their desired effect, but knowing full well that this would be the result.

Its kinda like the oil spill, they only wanted to cut corners, but who knew that ignoring the guidelines could cause unintended results, right?

im sure youre tune would change when your bank info is hacked. Banks are the evil empire after all, its just too bad they have everyones money.

[Kalipekona]

I have a feeling that if this was Microsoft suing the hackers all the fanboys on this site would be calling Microsoft evil, blah blah blah...

In fact, when Microsoft banned modded consoles all the Sony fanboys across the net accused Microsoft of some dastardly deed, saying that they only did it to supposedly make people go buy a new console, etc. They didn't stand up for Microsoft's actions to do something about piracy on their console.

Double standards and hypocrisy are rampant.

[Fruit Loops]

@M4ndat0ry_1nstall

yea they'll get the clap alright

...in jail

[NewMonday]

lol

[Maddens Raiders]

vs. a pissed off Rico & Sev? I'm taking the latter.

[FinalSpartan]

The Dark Side Is Always Stronger. PS3 true power will be unleashed

- Homebrew
- Emulators
- Apps
- Backup games

so much more....

[lil Titan]

In the new batman movie Robin or should i say the Red Hood said "You cant stop crime! We must learn how to control it." or something like that either way im not jailbreaking my system on risk Sony bricking my $300 PS3...I like playing online

[UNLOADEAD]

FUCK HACKERS!!!!

[Megaton]

Hate to see myself agreeing with hardcore Xbros like Mandatory Install over here, but it is what it is. Sony dun goofed.

[RememberThe357]

And what would you have done? Bent over and just let them ram you? Fuck that. You fight back, you put some of them in jail and let the entire community know that they're not gods and that they can be touched.

[Megaton]

Oh I dunno, patch the holes? They play a defeatist game over at Sony.

"People are potentially hacking through Linux? Better not try to fix it, just remove it for all our users".

What was filing lawsuits against these people gonna do? Pretty much only this. It wasn't going to fix anything, just make them look completely iron-fisted and clueless.

[ComboBreaker]

Basically, you're saying that if robbers break into your house, you don't sue them, you don't punish them, you just let them go, and you just buy a new lock, and that'll surely teach them to not come back to rob you again?

"I'd do a better job defending my house and let the police deal with it."

But that is what Sony is doing. Defending their house (PS3) better with firmware updates and letting the police and court deal with it through a law suit.

"I don't see how Sony is going to stop these "robbers" simply by going after them."

By going after them and putting them in jail, Sony stop these "robber". How could you possible not see that?

"They're fighting information at this point, and taking it out on a couple people. It's a fool's errand."

They're fighting Geo and the hacker crew at this point, and taking it out on Geo and the hacker crew. It's the smart thing to do. Or would you rather they do not go after Geo, and instead, go after you?

[Megaton]

I'd do a better job defending my house. I wouldn't go stalking robbers in the night like Charles Bronson. How often do robbers come back to the same house, anyway? Thanks for the fail metaphor.

I don't see how Sony is going to stop these "robbers" simply by going after them. They're fighting information at this point, and taking it out on a couple people. It's a fool's errand.

[skrug]

@Megaton

That's what they tried to do with PSP, and look what happened, cat and mouse chase...

[Megaton]

"By going after them and putting them in jail, Sony stop these "robber". How could you possible not see that?"

Yeah, they're gonna lock up all the hackers in the world with all the info about hacking the PS3 as well. They'll handcuff a USB stick with all the info. Derp.

They could sentence Geohot to death and it wouldn't stop anything. Like I said, they're fighting information. It's out there, and now it always will be. The best they could do is get their own house in order.

[jeeves86]

You can't possibly expect them to sue everyone and they don't intend to. Just the people that started it. Make an example out of them and people will be reluctant to follow.

[the_best_player]

The Iphone lawsuit failed and so will Sonys

[LukaX23]

I hope one of you sad, sad hackers are reading this: you have no idea how stupid you really are. Enjoy surprise butt sex in jail. =D

[the_best_player]

Tell me what happened with the Iphone lawsuit, oh wait hackers won :)

[the_best_player]

Disagree with FACTS if you wish lol

[NeoTribe]

People like you make me sick. When people start pirating games it hurts sony PERIOD. You never know wut this hackin bs can lead to. I dont want anything to fuck up a company that provides us with such great games and entertainment. There is always a chance this pirating can lead to significant profit loss of there games, which could lead to lower quality exclusives. We dont need another blah and boring xbox style gaming console.

[blahblah]

and when sony hurts someone else you're in fanboy lala land? i hate pirates, but i'd love homebrew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

they are bitching about EULA... lol, if they can't respect others, why the need to respect theirs?

if you read the link they disrespected GPL licenses for LAME same way as homebrew does to theirs.

[Kalipekona]

"another blah and boring xbox style console"

Really? You just proved how biased and worthless your opinion is. You are just another Sony fanboy that defends them at all cost. How many of you were concerned about piracy on the 360 or Wii? Hypocrites.

I am opposed to piracy as a matter of principle, I don't change my opinion due to shifting circumstances or loyalty to some corporation.

[mastiffchild]

The issue is, to my mind, that Sony don't want to lose a lot of cash to piracy which is the only logical outcome of what the hackers did-they know it, you know it and I know it-and people like Mr Hotz certainly knew it when they started.

Now, I can dig people wanting to play emulated games and mess about with homebrew, sure, but are we that naive that we think the real reasons behind all this wasn't piracy enabling and a little ego massaging for some needy people who happen to be pretty good with computers and code? Why not just do stuff like emulation, and do it better, more easily and cheaply and legally(with no grey areas) on your PC? Why are people desperate for CFW on a PS3 anyway? Even with it you can't do ANYTHING like what you can on a cheap laptop FFS. Which brings me back to what I consider the only nearly logical reason for hacking a PS3-playing PS3 exclusive games for nothing. This is why all this happened and is why Sony are peeved. If they thought all that would happen would be SNES emulators they wouldn't give two craps but this isn't about that, isn't about freedom to mod your PC(which even a court ruling in favour of Sony will NOT effect as PC is a totally different system being open)and is purely about Sony trying to protect the games they make, their future ability to trade and so on.

I'm sick of people making every possible justification to steal these days. I get stolen from all the time by people file sharing songs and music I played on, sang on and even wrote. People like these take food off my kids plates every day of my life and here we have people supporting the same kind of slack moral stance??! Also, saying Sony are opening a big can of worms by going after these guys:How? The tools are already there for anyone wishing to carry on stealing and people have shown just what selfish , scummy thieves they can be-the piracy won't get any worse and no "more" hackers will "go after" Sony because of this that weren't going to anyway. If Sony win, mind, some might start thinking twice. How did not suing stop PSP piracy?

No, like with MS rightfully banning consoles from Live for piracy Sony have every right to stop people enabling theft from them and their partners. Protecting your business is somehow wrong but theft isn't? I don't get this at all. Sony aren't trying to stop anyone's fun and, imo, have every right to protect their business. When I buy a CD or LP I don't assume I OWN the rights to the music on it for performance or re recording so why do people think messing with Sony's(or MS or Ninty's) software is any different? You buy your console or you buy your game disc and own the right to play with them and the games on them but not the right to mess with them or rip them or offer them for download to others. As such Sony winning would only effect thieves and those worshipping thieves and low class braggarts.

I don't like the way any of the companies in this industry treat legit gamers but when so many of us seem to think stealing is OK is it any wonder they have such a low opinion of gamers in general? When will people get it? Piracy hurts gaming full stop. This was always just about piracy for me and I see nothing else BUT piracy and the support of it barring a few hackers with ego issues and, saddest of all, a lot of gamers who think that them getting something for nothing now won't harm their hobby later and using every excuse under the Sun to make their theft seem, somehow, OK.

[smashman98]

Its is completley legal to run homebrew or even custom firmware as welll as releaseing the tools to do just that. But what these hackers did wasnt just that. to my understanding they have completley broke open the ps3's security which protect each and every single ps3 inclding psn and anyother software associated with the ps3. that is not legal and any of them in the US will definitely be doing some hard time and by some i mean: 25 to life easy. this is 100% against sonys terms of service as well as US privacy laws.

[otherZinc]

I hope SONY sues the pants off this Geohat M**********R! I'm tired of people losing money after spending 3 or 4+ years creating games & an AS****E steals money from them.

F*** Geohat!

[Ldubbz]

I do remember when the "openness"of the PS3 with its Linux potential was a touted feature among many here on N4G. When they took it away, people here of course defended their JesusMachine...but what did you actually think would happen?

Fact of the matter is, once you open something, even a little, to the coding community...and then close it, its not staying closed. People customize or "hack" cell phones, GPS units, video game machines, you name it. The Wii, DS, PSP, all of them. The 360 is markedly different for one reason; you need a hardware hack (a chip) to start doing stuff. But as far as I know, no one is actually running their OWN software on the 360, rather stolen 360 SW.

With the PS3, the OS itself isnt as secure; its not too different from the much-hacked PSP. Its not a very tough OS to crack, as demonstrated by Geohot. Im sure Sony knew this, which is why they may have allowed for Linux, to appease that community who would in-turn leave the rest of the OS alone since they have plenty to play with. A genius move, one they should have kept in place...

But they of course didn't, and with the PS3's easily swapped-out HDD means that games running right off of a USB may not be too far away...or people with large HDDs already in their PS3 ( I have a 320GB myself) could simply copy games to it. Again, a "feature" of PS3 which could come back to haunt them.

Now with all this lawsuit stuff, they have incurred the wrath. You can agree with either side at this point, but theres no going around the fact that Sony have shot themselves in the foot on this one.

[aviator189]

this is gonna get heated...

[lastdual]

Yeah, I wonder if the same people making a big deal out of this take equal care to avoid bittorrent'ing any movies published by Sony Pictures, or avoid listening to any MP3s (or unofficial youtube streams) by bands signed with Sony Music, etc.

Most people are total hypocrites when it comes to property rights....

[DelbertGrady]

Of course not but before you've managed to say "Geohot" they're all suited up, ready to defend Sony in court.

[smashman98]

I dont think you understand this isn't about piracy this is much more than that this is the security of all user info as well its pretty much all out in the open now

[CoxMulder]

Talk about "making a big deal out of this".

Looking at the main page & the hundreds of comments you'd think the PS3 is the first console to ever get hacked..

[Balt]

If Microsoft, Nintendo and Apple combined can't stop piracy and hackers what makes Sony think they can? They're beat. Sony needs to learn to live with that and find a happy medium that, maybe even supports some homebrew apps. Maybe Sony can make some of these hacks official. Sony needs to think about what makes their system good and what could make it better.

They support mods for Epic's Unreal and will support Portal 2 mods (AKA-- HOMEBREW), yet don't support the big picture? Sounds hypocritical to me. Sounds like it's only good for Sony when there is a dollar involved for the parties invited.

Can't beat'em, join'em.

[Biggest]

When did they combine to stop piracy? Pirates have always been what they are. Yes, a few people benefit from their existence. But they are criminals that should be punished to the full extent of the law. I hope it finally plays out that way in the case of digital terrorism.

[kaveti6616]

If a law cannot be enforced, should it be a law?

[mastiffchild]

Thing is piracy won't stop while gamers still think it's acceptable to steal games and jump to defend lowlives who enable these thefts.

Also, don't assume people are lying if they say they don't download illegally themselves. I don't, and as a member of organisations like MCPS I'd be stupid TO do so. I suffer from this kind of theft all the time and while I agree that Sony won't get anywhere doing what they are I DO think they''re morally right to do it. What did staying quiet do for them and the PSP? Sony understandably don't want the same for the PS3-why would they and why should we think they're wrong for this? MS are right to ban for piracy and so would Sony be.

@kaveti-a lot of laws are nearly impossible to enforce, are just plain money pits or do nothing to stop the crimes in question. Prohibition of narcotics does very little but keep jails full and waste police time while bankrupting Governments but I don't see an end to"The Drug War" in the UK or US any time soon, do you? That kind of law exists outside of fiscal or logical sense and mainly to appease a moral majority into voting one way or the other come election time. If there's something in it for those in power a law exists no matter how unwieldy or unenforcible it may be.

In a logical society drugs would be legal, the money would go back into society(for treatment of addicts rather than that just being another drain)rather than to drug cartels where it isn't even taxable, places licensed to sell it would pay tax and the lowered cost of the drugs would reduce the real issues of prostitution and drug related thefts and muggings meaning fewer police hours would be wasted in a futile tail chasing exercise where junkies are criminalised JUST because the law exists when it's morally hurting nobody if someone decides to abuse their own body. Point is-if a popular set of laws as flawed as those surrounding drug use exist quite happily just why would we expect any sense anywhere else in a legal system often used, mainly, for electioneering. Sony might win if there's something in the outcome for the US' Govt, trust me- court isn't free from politicking in any way and is often it's slave.

I know what you're saying but, as someone who feels theft IS just rong and is never victimless cannot say that this law should be hard to enforce. I don't see a grey area and don;t understand why a law should either-this was about stealing from the start. Again, what's the point of a hacked PS3 if it isn't to play pirated games? You can do a lot more and do it legally on ANY PC-the law should have no trouble in backing Sony, Apple or MS imho-and I hate all those companies for the way they con us gamers but when we're happy to steal what do we expect? Would be nice if the law could give us some moral framework to be honest even if that means a few sentences for the thieves. If WE booted out the hackers and pirates ourselves the industry might start treating us ALL a little better than they currently do-which is stupid of THEM as it gives pirates an excuse and softens gaming opinion towards people who, really, caused all the animosity in the first place.

[smashman98]

@kaveti6616 by that logic, if a rapist cant be found should they be pursued?

of course the law should be enforced

[ThanatosDMC]

Ninjas

[yippiechicken]

Pirate Ninjas.

[Fishy Fingers]

Mods are not really homebrew, mods are created within a given piece of software, homebrew is generally new code.

Also, mods are free, there is no "dollar involved", or money to be made by the companies offering mod support. Their purpose is generally to add longevity to your initial investment.

But, still, can you link me to confirmation of the PS3 having mod support in Portal 2? Because I only know of Steamwork support, if Portal had mod support, so should every other Valve (Source) game through the SDK.

[ActionBastard]

Microsoft, Nintendo and Apple don't sit idly by and let their IP get raped either. 360 bans, mod chip bans, Apple will sue you if you say "Apple sucks", R4 bans, lawsuits to halt production/distribution, etc.

They support MODS for a licensed Epic and Valve games. And using the tool set of a particular engine or assets provided by the developer to create a LEVEL or MODE in said licensed game is NOTHING like homebrew. Perhaps you should read up on what homebrew is and what a L4D mod (for example) is?

[UnwanteDreamz]

So what should Sony do to protect the intrests of their business partners. Let me help you. In the real world these moves by "hackers" translate to real $$$ lost. What do you tell share holders? Sorry we can't win so we decided to let them do whatever they want with the product because it wont hurt our bottom line?

Right they would get laughted out of the board room.

[Cajun Chicken]

Bait. You seem to not understand this at all and your intelligent 'quill' display pic is just oxymoronic. Fact is, companies could lose money, studios close, people lose jobs.

Sony have every right to protect against piracy especially concerning their first party studios which are only run by the takings of all of Sony Computer Entertainment as a whole imagine in half of the people playing Uncharted 3 in the future had pirated it, that's ridiculous.

Also, you seem to be forgetting, other publishers will NOT invest in making games for a system of where the console maker ALLOWS piracy to slide. Sony HAVE to take action, or it's a win for the pirates. The game industry will not allow this to happen.

As for the hackers. Honestly, it seems like George Hotz is the Judas in their midst.

[Balt]

Cajun, basically what you're saying is if Sony were to allow this no one would support them. Right? So basically they'd be in last place. Right?

So really nothing would change. Thank you.

[ActionBastard]

It's a shame you couldn't form a real rebuttal. CC owned/educated you...and all you came up with was that?! Like I said, a shame.

But funny too. Like "Ha! Ha! I'm laughing AT you!" funny.

[Cajun Chicken]

I'm not even going to bother Bait. It's become obvious that it's just not worth going beneath you, because it's a long way down. You obviously don't care one iota for the people making games within the industry.

[Lord_Doggington]

this is basically daemon tools for the PS3.

daemon tools is very very legal and won't be going anywhere.

...and yet people use it everyday to mount their illegal copies of software

geohot has just made a tool. this is very legal and isn't going anywhere.

sorry fboys

[Clubptxxx]

I personally own a PS3 and don't play it often, but I'm mainly a PC guy and I'm wondering why this is such a big issue? Losing money is bad and the root key thing was huge. But who's fault is that really? If someone from the community dedicates a bunch of time to learning and figuring stuff out and they DO figure it out, then it's Sony's fault for not making it secure enough. These guys aren't making any sort of profit off of the things they're doing, they're simply doing it because they want to do it.

Now you have to think, where would the gaming world be without open source things? I bet you any amount of money everyone here has used at least one program or some form of someone else's work and didn't pay for it. Without it, PC games wouldn't have great mods. Without mods we wouldn't have DotA or Counter Strike or Team Fortress.

Obviously, having people cracking games and playing them on consoles it's bad, but these guys haven't released any tools or anything that would allow someone to do such a thing(Or maybe they have and I haven't done enough research/cared to find out. If I'm wrong then please correct me) without quite a bit of research and knowledge. I think a lawsuit sends the right message by basically saying they aren't okay with what is happening but honestly, why don't they take a positive from this? Why not allow people to develop their own software, and if it's good enough, sell it for profit? If they pirate a game illegally, ban their console.

I'm not really for piracy in any way shape or form and my Steam Games list more than shows that's true. But open source is important because without it you'd just be playing a new Call of Duty every 6 months with no changes to the gameplay or improvements.

...Oh wait.

[blahblah]

@Cajun Chicken

you forgot to mention earthquakes and global warming. ps2 was hacked to oblivion, but wasn't sony the one saying it was most profitable console.

as a developer my self (and knowing a little about rights), i can tell you suing them will fail. first of ps3 is end product not development model so EULA wont fly. unless they prove they loan it to you, not sell. EULA was never proven in court, but it failed badly 3 times now.

the only thing that was not common as last years snow was encryption where sony was taking money if you wanted to publish something.

if publishers would be scared of pirates... do you think they'd still be making games for PC and ps2?

there is still a lot of people like me who buy games.

[SuperStrokey1123]

And now the fight is really going to start...

[Karooo]

Look at all the 360 fanboys approving this, should be pleasurable for them to see this. I dislike them the most, they are the ones who started this console war.

edit : umm no I play on both unlike you.

"youve been on overtime submitting Pro sony related articles"

lol what?

[Kran]

Hey, I only own a 360 (again, getting a PS3 soon) and I want Sony to sue them!

EDIT: Who are those disagreeing? Are they the 360 fanboys, or are they those FOR the hackers?

If they are the 360 fanboys, go away. If they are the hackers, you guys are such dips**ts.

@Karooo and @Genecalypse, there is something called PMing for hate against each other. Use it.

[Genecalypse]

Now you are what we call a "fanboy"

Really do you now? Whats the difference between you and them? From your profile and history it seems youve been on overtime submitting Pro sony related articles and trying to bury negative ones. How does that make you any different? Its all a big conspiracy against the PS3 right? Please.

[HarryMonogenis]

I also own an Xbox 360, and I too hope that Sony prevail.

For the record; I used to own a PS3. My personal preference is just that. A preference.

These hackers need to be put in their place. Didn't failoverflow say that they don't promote piracy? Sorry if that's wrong -- but if it's right it just proves what liars they are. Releasing it out in such a manner just shows how desperate they are, and what liars they are too.

[FailOverHero]

They started the console war...uh huh. I hate elitist, arrogant pricks all high and mighty on their high horses

[yewles1]

Console war? Really? I swear, people type the dumbest things...

[BlackTar187]

Be fair there was a console war with Sega and Nintendo but the internet is huge and its basically the same war with millions of outlet and voices now instead of just monthly publications.

This is the same with everything though it was inevitable this would happen history has showed this over and over in all fields and products.

[XabiTheHumble]

@FailOverHero Lets forget the fact that you just probably pulled that statement out of your ass, my question to you is where is your proof of claim?

[FailOverHero]

I was quoting karoo you geniuses. Gees! Does anybody ever read the original post to which the reply is being written?

[ReBurn]

Karooo, my friend, the console war has been going on ever since Intellivision released. We all know that Colecovision was best. It doesn't make sense to say that "360 fanboys" started it.

This war has been in full swing on middle school playgrounds since 1979. The internet has made middle school last forever, unfortunately.

[Kran]

SUE THEM SONY!

NOW!!!!

BE A MAN, UNLIKE THESE IDIOTS!

That is all.

Edit: Wow. I said that as if Sony was 1 person.... o.O But still, theres like 1000's of Sony employees against a few hackers. Hmmmm.... I wonder who would win?

*calls bookies* Yeh I'd like to put my life savings on Sony to win please! ;)

Could somebody who is disagreeing to please comment and say why they're disagree with my comment? What, do you really think Piracy is a good thing?

[theonlylolking]

There are OVER 9,000 hackers!

[Karlnag3]

I don't think they necessarily think piracy is a good thing, I just think they take into account how many times companies have tried to squash piracy in the court room and the fact that they have never succeeded.

The size of the company doesn't matter, it's how many bullshit laws that hackers have to hide behind that counts.

Oh, and for the record, I neither agreed nor disagreed with you.

[BlackTar187]

i agree with karlnag. I think most people are playing the odds on this one and unfortnatley from where im standing the odds with Hackers and courts usually protects the hacker because of shitty bylaws and loop holes.

[TheTruth89]

bad for them, really... someone will slap their asses very very shortly

[GamerSciz]

Wow, I guess the hackers figured if they are going to go down they might as well go out with a bang. Getting sued is just the start. By releasing the custom firmware in the first place they broke the Sony ToS which is illegal. Now releasing the tools publicly is breaking laws outside of Sony. Jail anyone?

Edit: If the hackers would have never publicly released the Custom Firmware none of this crap would have ever happened. They screwed up and broke the ToS and in terms made themselves get caught. They deserve everything coming to them.

[ME1989]

It's already way too late. The tools and everything anyone needs to get on hackin' are already released to the public.

[WesMcLaren]

Sony can remotely disable consoles whenever they see that something is beginning to go wrong.

[mushroomwig]

Pretty immature, spitting out their dummies and stamping their feet when they're the ones in the wrong to begin with.

[visualb]

they are console hackers, you expect maturity? they are all still in moms basement eating hot pockets

[Eamon]

I thought that was the stereotype of the nerdy gamer?

[visualb]

it overlaps ;) neither are mutually exclusive

[Zinc]

This well is dry.

[ReBurn]

Man, I love Hot Pockets!

[Haseo106]

They have big mouths! Wait until they have to to pay the FINE or go to jail, then they will STFU!

[wiggles]

Or when they see the legal bills, I bet most of the hackers are to broke to buy a good lawyer to fight this.

[ziggurcat]

pretty soon they'll all have "purty mouths"...

[mastiffchild]

I dunno. Through my mum's work I've met all manner of Jailhags and I STILL can't see any of them being desperate enough to stick anything in Geohot. I'd say only a mother could love that face but, then, he acts like he never got enough attention off even her so who knows?

I couldn't care less about Sony per se, couldn't care less about MS, Ninty,Acti, EA or any of the big gaming industry players but I DO know theft is theft and that, whatever anyone says about CFW, playing emulators whatever the only real reason behind hacking ANY console is to play pirated games. I once had a PS2 chipped so I could import legally bought Japanese titles--and I even felt guilty about THAT. However, with PS3 being region free to all intents there's not even THAT excuse anymore and most of the people I know who hacked anything did so to play stolen games.

If they get away with what is basically being accessory before the fact to EVERY pirated PS3 game then the law is an ass as well as a lot of gamers having lower morals than Kotick-he might be greedy and punchable and shortsighted but he's never quite sunk to barefaced theft and then cried when people called him out for it.

I only care about the quality and number of games we get to play and also about the way gamers in general are seen-I don't like the prospect, either, of piracy, as it inevitably does, meaning people lkosing their jobs as fewer biug games are made. Why we want to be complicit in weakening the industry we built is beyond me-lose the piracy defending attitude and we might start gaining industry respect and be able to do things about moves that hurt us all(draconian DRTM, nickel and diming etc)but while we're seen to support theft by MS, Sony et al where is our leverage? We need to have the high moral ground and while we harbour thieves and egos like these thast won't happen and a bigger wedge will be driven between us and those who make the games.

The whole industry, including all of us, will become more them and us than ever-and it's legit gamers who always pay the price-literally, as games will get crappier, have more corners cut, have less content and go up in price. When I was a kid my mum gave up buying me nice bikes because they just kept getting stolen-I couldn't blame her-and are we really defending these bike thieves? People like Hotz are pretty much doing the same thing as someone letting the burglars into my back yard and giving them my combi lock number.

I don;t see a moral defense and, believe me, if I could come down on any side BUT Sony's in this instance I would but to me it's black and white and they have every right to sue. Now, it would be interesting to find out, not that we will, if they would have bothered with hacking anything if there was NO desire among gamers for pirated games.What I've seen recently, and when MS bans come(rightfully) round on N4G is way too many gamers who think theft is cool when it, really, isn't. It';s the biggest divisive issue in gaming today and as we wopn't kick it out ourselves I have to wonder if, as a community, we aren';t just as greedy and shortsighted as the Kotick's of this world.

As far as Sony, themselves, go-I just don't get the feeling they're quite sure what they should do but feel they should be seen doing something, anything, to protect their interests. If only more gamers were more honest-then we might get a better deal all round without having to nick anything. Then again maybe my mum is a freak for teaching me that it's wrong to steal-and there I was telling my son that taking things that aren't his was the wrong thing to do! What a crazy, romantic fool I am, eh?

[blackburn5]

This is exactly why I am staying out of this. This is going to get ugly really fast and I am not going to get caught in the crossfire. My system will remain unhacked and good luck to all who dare to do it. You will need it.

[SoleWiz]

Game Over Sony! PS4 time with cloud gaming. Better hit up Onlive for tips and tricks!

[bananlol]

Maybe they just use a random number next time.

[Eamon]

LMAO

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

Then Xbox and Wii are dead by your logic.

[SoleWiz]

Xbox has no games and the Wii been dead for a long time.

[MarioWarfare]

Damn, I thought these hackers learned their lesson after being sued but I guess this is their way of getting back at Sony, now they released all tools to the public, Sony will have to deal with more hackers now

[Neko_Mega]

What would scare them more if they got put to death for this and if that became a new law for all hackers.

[MarioWarfare]

Put to death for hacking a video game console? Are you stupid?

[bananlol]

Fanaticism 101.

[beavis4play]

hey - if you're not going to commit the crime, who cares if death is the penalty. the only people who should care are those breaking the law?

i've never hacked and have no intention of doing so. that being said, i agree with a severe penalty for hacking.

edit: bananlol - it beats liberalism 100 or bleeding hearts 102

[Neko_Mega]

No, but is sounds like you are.

It may not sound like a big deal, but that is mostly because it doesn't effecr you, you don't lose your job or money out of it.

[MarioWarfare]

So, you think hacking a gaming console is a greater crime than murdering someone? There are people who only get jailed for 14 years for murder and you want people to be put to death for hacking, seems to me like you probably live in North Korea

[theIMP]

Ok, you have a good point, but death if a little overboard, no?

[Neko_Mega]

So its ok for some to hack a gaming system that cost someone a job that end up going back to that company and killing people?

@ZombieNinjaPanda

Might want to watch what you say, I report you on that.

[BlackTar187]

u do have a good point but maybe your a little just a little off the deep end with punishment.

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

@Neko

Believe it or not, your original comment was reported by myself also, way before I even commented. I just felt like telling you that your idea was completely idiotic.

[Neko_Mega]

To bad my comment was at a person like your less two, personal attack.

[beavis4play]

with the worlds dependance on computers, YES, hacking is a SERIOUS crime. if hackers aren't given punishments that deter what they do, then they'll continue. hackers already have been able to get into banks, universities.....etc... and commit identity theft which devastates a persons life. how long before hackers can get into systems that control electricity, dams, weapons.....etc...not to mention the viruses they spread thru computer networks.

mariowarfare, you and others who support the view that hacking isn't a big deal are clueless to the destruction hackers can wreak.
if anyone's an idiot in this conversation it's you.

hackers need to be stopped. unless you're a hacker, i don't know why you'd care what happens to them.

[theIMP]

Really Bevis, well I think you should get the death penalty for such a stupid fucking statement. Are you really saying someone should be killed for hacking? I swear to god some of the people in this world are unbelievable. There are so many more horrible crimes being committed out there every day rape, child molestation, genocide, and so much more. I just can't imagine what could possibly be your reasoning for thinking death is a suitable punishment for hacking. You have to rank up there with the most confused people on this earth if you truly feel that way. If you think DEATH is a suitable punishment for hacking, what should be the punishment for leaving such a stupid fucking comment on the Internet? You should at the very least get 10 years and your arrogant ass kicked.

[beavis4play]

hey imp - you're reported and ignored for personal attacks and threats. i could spit out the same but that would be stepping down to your level.
if you READ my post above you'd understand where i'm coming from as far as how very bad things can come from hacking. and the crimes you mentioned?.....i'd say the death penalty is appropriate for those as well. as far as comparing crimes? this isn't the issue. part of my feeling stems from different issues. one of the main ones is the world population problem. with the world due to hit 7 billion people this year and with prisons overfilled as it is - to simply continue to to try and incarcerate people is not going to be realistic within the next 20-30 years. more draconian measures are going to have to be taken - not due to craziness or heartlessness but due to reality.
as far as the particular subject of hacking is concerned - as i've said above, computers run almost EVERYTHING in our lives. if hackers aren't treated as real criminals and dealt with severely - it's just a matter of time till many more (than already are now!) turn to more dangerous hacking than game consoles.

i probably wasted my time trying to explain it to you - you post above clearly shows you to be unable to understand what you read if you can even read at all.

[theIMP]

Ok bevis, First of all I didn't threaten you. A threat is when I say I am going to do something to harm you. Nowhere in my post did I say anything of the sort. I simply stated how I felt about you stance, and then stated what I think your punishment should be in a world were Death is the sentence for hacking. Second, drop down to my level? I think you started way lower than I did, so you would have to climb up to my level. How old are you? I only ask because your insight on the world seems very limited. I don't disagree with about the hackers getting severe penalties for their crimes, but you attitude of "Kill'em all" is just ridiculous. God, I hope you never get into politics. The last thing I would like to point out is that you’re a hypocrite. Your first two sentences were, "hey imp - you're reported and ignored for personal attacks and threats. I could spit out the same but that would be stepping down to your level." and your last statement was "I probably wasted my time trying to explain it to you - you post above clearly shows you to be unable to understand what you read if you can even read at all. ". LOL, that’s not a personal attack? I think you really need to reevaluate you life man, because something is really off in your head.

[Burning_Finger]

Just amputate their hands would be enough.

[BlackTar187]

i ove the amputate there hands and you have a Burning finger as your avatar. i dont know why i find it funny but i do.

[ReBurn]

*looks way out into left field and waves at Neko_Mega*

*and keeps his distance*

[Tony-A]

Fail0verflow.... I defended them.

Are you guys retarded? Some of Sony's charges included "Intent to Defraud And Obtain Value", "Confidential Information on Computer" and "INTENTIONAL and RECKLESS Damage and Loss".

Holy sh*t. Great job, fellas. You just gave weight to three of the charges Sony put against you. Be civil. Be men. Go to court. Don't throw a fit and make a mess because of charges put against you. But, of course, it's too late for that.

[Cajun Chicken]

They think they're heroes. It was just the intention of piracy all along.

Plus. Nintendo aren't likely to favor Sony for the fact that now you can play potentially money making Snes games for re-release again. Sony HAS to do this. If they sit and do nothing, Nintendo could sue Sony. Sony have been forced to.

[yewles1]

You guys were warned. History repeated itself many times, but people still oogled over the fake halos. Now it's like hostages getting killed when the swat team closes in.

[MGRogue2017]

???

Odd. Wasn't expecting that to happen... =/

[helrazor343]

Big surprise, a bunch of d!ck$ making a d!ck move.

[wiggles]

Just out of curiosity has any of the big companies ever actually sued a hacker, or is this the first company to try it. I mean it only makes sense to issue the letters, then to console ban, what's left for a company to do? They have to protect their product and the developers.

Even if people aren't using it to pirate games, it's to big of a risk, Sony has a right to defend their developers, the hackers are only hurting the consumers.

[Chaos Striker]

Yes. It has happened very recently. Apple sued the people who jailbreaked the iPhone, and the court overturned their claim, which granted consumers the legal right to jailbreak their phones.

I have a feeling the same outcome will occur if this ever goes to court (Sony and the hackers will most likely settle out of court to avoid this outcome).

Additionally history has not favored companies when it comes to lawsuits where consumers vs. the companies. (Hackers are consumers because they had to buy the console to mess with it). Courts have been on the side of protecting consumer rights and what companies can and cannot do.

Although this seems like a stupid view to take in the case of hackers, the court is also looking beyond this issue. They have to address how a ruling will affect future cases and what it means for consumer rights. That is the primary issue that will be brought up, because a ruling here will have implications for our rights as consumers over our products.

[joeorc]

but Sony is going to go through this as mainly copy right infringement which is far stronger of a claim than sue to "jail break" your home console..it's not the hack of the console notice their talking about private owned software. that's a big problem for these hacker's to overcome..they mentioned "Leaked key's " in their presentation useing stolen property as a defense " of i did not steal it" is going to be Moot!

I think this in this case the claims for copy right infringement are going to be what will win this case. remember its not so much the hacking it's the copy right's the Hackers are breaking!

[Biggest]

Yup. Guilty by possesion. I don't see anything saying that Sony is worried about modifying the PS3. Everything is about stolen code and reckless distribution of code. Those things do not belong to the consumer at all. It's almost as if Sony left their random number as a known number in case someone did steal their way into the system. It makes it easier to prove that the offender is doing something knowingly when there are no variables. Did he know what the number was 100% of the time? Yes. Did he then give that number to the world? Yes. Did you allow him to find or distribute that number? No. He and his hacker buddies are in the wrong.

[Chaos Striker]

My bad, I couldn't read the website, so I made an assumption based upon other website's descriptions. Although, I still foresee issues in the lawsuit, especially given the nature of the whole thing.It will be interesting to see if this issue gets elevated to the Supreme Court.

[darkdoom3000]

sounds like they're running around in circles to me.

I actually like the failoverflow team (except the name, sounds like a 13y/o made it) but doing this seems like they're sabotarging themselves.

geohatz can go to hell though. Hes the reason sony blocked linux, and the reason the mess started.

[Acquiescence]

That's a real life rage quit if ever I saw one.

[bananlol]

They can only blame themselves if they get caught, real hackers uses codenames;)

[theonlylolking]

Sony should send chuck norris and have him beat up those hackers =)

[SephireX]

Who cares about Failoverflow? The firmware is already here. The PS3 has been compromised and hackers and pirates will have a field day. As Scientology learned from Anonymous and the US learned from Wikileaks, don't fck with hackers!

[Welshy]

LOL wtf? "what the US learned from Wikileaks, dont fck with hackers!"

on top of the fact wikileaks never hacked anything, merely posted documents they obtained, you comment hass feck all to do with this case =S

GeoNot fucked up big time by using private software codes. whther they are just "found" or stolen makes no difference. he took privatley owned content for Sonys eyes only and spread it for he world to see/use

better not drop the soap Geo!

[HappyGaming]

But wikileaks did crush a lot of sites like paypal and Amazon for a few hours which am sure equates to a couple of million lost in sales especially amazon Christmas presents.

[SephireX]

Exactly, when I say Wikileaks, I mean its supporters which a decent proprtion of are hackers. Geohot didn't fck up in the hacker's eyes. He is after igniting a fire that will burn for a long time to come and will burn a lot of software sales for Sony and save a lot of money for hackers.

[thebudgetgamer]

well the cats out of the bag, if anything this should be interesting to watch.

[Apotheosize]

WAHHHHH

OH NO MY CONSOLE GOT HACKED , NOW IT HAS LESS VALUE! THESE HACKERS SHOULD BE HUNG THEY ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH RIVALING SERIAL KILLERS AND RAPISTS! ONLY LONERS DO THIS KIND OF STUFF, I ON THE OTHER HAND AM THE PINNACLE OF BEAUTY AND CHARM

This is what you guys sound like, pure butthurt. So what your console got hacked, get over it, this isnt the end of the video game world.

Edit: No I'm merely imitating the people who do act like this. Read through these comments, some of them sound like this, of course mine is exxagerated

[ME1989]

While I dislike hackers of any kind, well, I should say pirates, fucking despise pirates. I don't mind hacking a device which one person will use by himself without harming anyone else, I have to agree with you. (Keyword: by yourself, I hate online hackers)

People here are getting waaaaaay too emotional, my God. Talking about putting them to death and stuff? Relax people, it's just a MACHINE........why is this such a big deal? Just continue to play games and move on...

[HappyGaming]

5 years from now the people who say give these guys the death penalty will be happily hopping along over to PS4 not caring about what they said here today.

Its weird how they can hate someone so much that they want him dead for something they will not care about in a few years time. Especially when you think that this guys didn't do anything at all to them.

Also if a team of thieves stole $500million from a casino and flew over New York and threw the money down to everyone (not keeping any for themselves) people would say they are heroes...

If a team of hackers stole the key from the PS3 causing multi million damage to Sony and shared it with everyone in the world for free risking their freedom in the process people would say they are pricks.

:-/

[Tony-A]

Says the kid childishly imitating people on the internet...... ?

[Sarevok]

Really..?
Did you take a look at the new cod hack?
I will be pissed if I see people using god mode in Killzone 3 because of modded ps3s.

The console will still be the same value, but will the games?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Fuck off.

[joeorc]

remember "any signed code can run" how about your personal info being taken?

how would you feel if some hacker can steal from you an buy stuff on your dime..who would you complain to Sony..or complain about Sony?

that is like saying you would not care if virus attack's happen on PSN...well you sound like the kinda person that would still blame Sony for not making the security stronger.

Some gamer's do not like people stealing consumer's data or cheating on online games or ripping off good developer's for their Hard earned work..this is not just about the PS3 this is about How far is it ok until you say enough is enough. consumer protection laws are not just made to protect consumer's against corperation's only; their there to make sure it even protects against people hacking your system.

so are you againset Hacker's or the game console manuf. that at least tries to keep your info from being stolen?

I don't care if you hate or don't hate a company allowing any chance for "any signed" software not going through one of these companies first is a bad idea. no matter how you cut it.

[xCaptainAmazing]

Nobody at least acknowledges how smart you have to be to hack something. Even if they do live in their mom's basement (which they probably don't), they've still achieved more than some of you will ever do.

Sony isn't more special than the other console manufacturers. The cat's out of the bag on this one, and even if these guys do get a slap on the wrist, either they or others will always answer the hacking call.

The only foolish people are those that think the punishment will actually do something. Despite what you think of hackers, they have their own code they go by. They feel they are being taken advantage of, and they are retaliating. Right or wrong depends on the person. Things aren't black and white.

The justice system is flawed to hell anyways, and TOS agreements are some of the most evil contracts in the world. Think about it: Sony releases firmware, and they failed to account for a particular variable in certain systems which bricks the blu-ray drive. Sony refuses to repair it for free. That is criminal and it has happened numerous times. Other console manufacturers are also guilty of this.

Basically, don't go spouting crap about the law when you've been wronged by a major company before, where TOS agreements have failed to bring you justice.

Disagree all you want, I sleep better knowing I'm sane. I will protect the integrity of the game industry as I always have, but some of you need to be educated and think of things MORE THAN ONE WAY sometimes. Devil's advocate is a valuable position to take.

...Hackers are like the modern day Robin Hood; They stand for the freedom of the use of technology, and give it back to everyone. The extent to which they cause harm is the issue of course, but the IDEA of a hacker is noble. If you don't see that... then I can't help you.

On topic: GeoHot is a total douche though, I'd take pleasure in punching him in the face. Not because he's a hacker, but because I hate his face.

[Psychotica]

Why would anybody acknowledge talent for doing something unethical? Society doesn't usually praise people for breaking the law.

[xCaptainAmazing]

It's because society doesn't have the "intelligence."

[HappyGaming]

"Right or wrong depends on the person"

No it doesn't a psychotic serial killer thinks it ok to kill someone for no reason.

You don't just say oh he thought he was doing a good thing let him go.

I am not saying this is anywhere near as bad I am just disagreeing with the statement you made. If we all made up our own laws we would all just do whatever we pleased because we always think our decision are the right choice otherwise we wouldn't do them.

Someone I used to go school with told me... "I didn't have money so I stole this bag because my other one ripped" he thought what he did was perfectly fine. He assumed his need for a bag was greater than the shops need for money. Our laws would disagree.

Philosophy student...

[DrillaKid]

"Nobody at least acknowledges how smart you have to be to hack something."

I dont see why we should; it's like bankers creating complex financial instruments to make money for banks (and huge bonuses for themselves) but then bringing the world economy to its knees - both these groups of people are very clever but that doesnt mean we should condone their actions.

"Hackers are like the modern day Robin Hood"

I would have to disagree; being a law student i have studied IP law and i just dont see how you can steal and exploit someone's intelluctual work; there would be no innovation if it werent for these laws.
The fact that they are facilitating piracy is another reason why this should be stopped. There is no two ways about it - hacking necessarily leads to piracy.

[xCaptainAmazing]

The thing about citing someone, is that you need to take as much as necessary to comment on the original point that was made:

"Hackers are like the modern day Robin Hood; They stand for the freedom of the use of technology, and give it back to everyone. The extent to which they cause harm is the issue of course, but the IDEA of a hacker is noble..."

...would be the full quote. They stand for something important, it's just that practically speaking they tend to cause more harm. You study Law? I study Computer Science. I guess we can see how our opinions differ based on our subject of education, No?

[Biggest]

You don't need education to see that your statement is wrong. Robin Hood supposedly stole money from the rich people in an extremely divided class system, and distributed it to the poor. No one is providing for the poor here. No one is stealing exclusively from the rich. None of what we're dealing with has to do with class levels or oppression. Sony, or any tech company, does not go out of its way to enslave or destroy people or companies "beneath" them. The only people that view hackers as the good guys are thieves and other unsavory persons. Hacking an iPhone may seem like a great thing. But if you want things that an iPhone doesn't give, make a better phone. Sprint, Verizon, T-Mobile, and even AT&T have phones with better functionality and form than the iPhone. The only reason to get an iPhone and hack it is to cheat and steal. What are the reasons for hacking a 360? Stealing and cheating. Why would you hack a PS3? Stealing and cheating. If you think something should have more than it does, ask whoever made it to add more. If they don't comply, make your own. If you choose to break in and steal what you want, you are not Robin Hood. You are not a hero. You're a thief. Go to jail.

[DrillaKid]

I would have to disagree that they stand for something important; the whole reason IP law exists is to protect intelluctual and financial investment (by companies and people); without them there would be no incentive to innovate since everyone would just copy/exploit the idea.

If you study computer science then you're exactly the type of person that these laws are designed to protect; if you come up with a genius program/software i'm pretty sure you'd want the law to protect it against exploitation by others (or you could just send the idea to me so i can make $$$ :) )

Also i think a lot people have misunderstood the nature of the lawsuit; Sony isnt pissed off at the hacking per se, they're annoyed that these guys are telling the world how to do it which obviously results in piracy.

[xCaptainAmazing]

Well this argument bores me. At least I see both sides of the coin. I don't need Internet approval.

[XabiTheHumble]

Society isn't the brightest but thats besides the point Psychotica statement still stands. Why would anybody acknowledge talent for doing something unethical? This is not how people should show of there talents.

[Pumbli]

I am so great at breaking windows. I could smash them all day! Why does nobody recognize my talent...!

Also, I give the broken glass to the homeless so I'm like Robin Hood too.

[Welshy]

riiiight... so if im good at murdering people, i should get off with it since i do it well?

you're logic is retarded regardless of the "talent" required they broke the law and are gonna get fist fucked by some stereotypical prison hard ass for many many years.

[WitWolfy]

Your logic is retarded . Murdering people and stealing Billions of dollars of patented codes is two different thing entirely.

go back to your tower

[Welshy]

Ok, how about we remove the subject matter whether it be shop lifting or genocide.

He used his "talent" to "skilfully" break the law. Doesn't matter if it you do it really well, or at a complete dumb ass.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. There's no 2 ways around it.

[Da One]

I can't believe people don't award you for selling drugs, do you know how dangerous it is...I mean i have more courage than all of you ever will and have done more than you guys ever have......

Illegal is still illegal, just because you're smart doesn't mean jack ****. The law is the law.

And please don't bring robin hood into this, you do not how his story really ended don't you?

[Boink]

well done sony, apparently these retarded companies haven't learned a damn thing in the last 10 or so years since metallica's attempt to sue napster to try and stop mp3 piracy.

[Chaos Striker]

The issue with that case is that MP3 piracy was where you shared the music "you bought" with people who "did not buy" the music. In this case they are arguing about jail-breaking, which can lead to piracy, not piracy itself. Also, people already "bought" their PS3s, so does that give them the right to mess with what "they bought"? That is the question that the court will be looking at and it gets to be a sticky situation especially when you consider past cases involving this type of question.

[joeorc]

@Chaos Striker

"in this case they are arguing about jail-breaking, which can lead to piracy, not piracy itself. Also, people already "bought" their PS3s, so does that give them the right to mess with what "they bought"? "

this is not about what they Bought..it's about what they did not buy..Sony did not SELL THE RIGHTS OF THE XMB to the consumer when you buy a PS3. them putting their own functions inside of Sony's XMB and copying it an giving it out is illegal.

if you have read the claims they are talking about infringement on the software. the hacking is how they aquired their infringement. that is Why Sony is sending the Law suit by the means of it "was in effect" these hackers are infringing not only of copy right's but distributing Sony IP without the ok from Sony.

these hackers are in really quite a bit of trouble. civil and as far as criminal the district A. may file a criminal charge for them breaking an Hacking the PSN.

[saint_john_paul_ii]

Actually, its the hackers who are going to get fcked in prison buddy, not the other way around.

They just drove themselves right into a hole they cant dig out of. Just shows how childish and immature these hackers are.

[darkdoom3000]

wikileaks didn't hack. One of the US guys just gave wikileaks all the cables.

wikileaks is still in legal territory.

[Omega Zues]

What cracks me up the most, is that releasing all this just further puts Geohot in deeper water. Hes the man who made all the claims. So releasing all of this shows an attack on Sony which can give Sony the grounds to take Geohot to court.

If any thing, Sony couldnt be happier. The hackers just went and gave Sony what the needed the most. Now the lawsuits can carry on.

Previously, Sony was only trying to contain. Now that its released, Sony can carry out the lawsuits. What? You thought by releasing the code Sony would magically withdraw the suits?

haha....Hahahaha...HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mustang300C2012]

It is amazing coming to N4G and seeing how little alot of people here know. I mean just reading some of the comments becuase of their blind love for Sony shows how little you know about the world of hacking. This lawsuit was a stupid mistake by Sony but it seems like it was their only option with reports that a firmware can't even stop it. Funny how no uproar comes from the world of PSP hacks and 360s but the PS3 OMG we got a situation lol.

[pork_chop_express]

Its idiots like you that talk about blind love for sony.

Do u even own a DS, psp or PC!? if you did you would be fully aware that in the end piracy hurts genuine gamers, less games get released or lengthy delays for pc software or game breaking DRM.

It has the potential to make the only games being released kinect shovelware and cooking mama because its only those consumers and impulse buyers that will ever buy wii dance again.

pull your head out ur ass, but then again you are probably looking forward to the new kinect games.

[Mustang300C2012]

Oh shut your whining ass up. Here you are claiming how I am an idiot but look how quickly your ready to talk about Kinect and shovelware. I own a PSP, 5 PCs, 2 PS3s, 4 360s, Iphone 4(JAILBROKEN), Iphone 3GS(JAILBROKEN), 2 Ipod Touches. Oh, I also was a beta tester for Kinect and I own two of those. Whoops guess I lost my "hardcore gamer card". Again where were you when it came to the 360 getting hacked, or the original Xbox? Yeah you get your head out of your ass.

[VenomProject]

Sue them penniless.

Capitalism! To hell with pirates!

[Chrissy]

I seriously feel sorry for sony. They really are clueless at pretty much everything this gen. Way to go poking in the hornets hive.

Although safe to say their fanboys have taken the lead from them in the retard race.

''Get em sony!!! Sue the bastards!! If that doesnt help take out even more features that people payed for!!''

[Tjernobieleke]

I am gonna use their crappy software to get my little brother banned. No more Killzone for you shitface :)

[yippiechicken]

LOL

[saumer]

I'm going to be sad if the PS3 turns into the psp... Piracy turned it into a wasteland I liked playing good games...

I hope it doesn't turn into a handful of good titles each year, if that.

[silvacrest]

that wont happen, the 360 and wii have been heavily pirated for years and yet they still sell a decent ammount of software every year

[sam2236]

What the fuck am I reading?! No, seriously, I had a really hard time trying to read the...'article', if you can call it that.

How the hell did this get approved?

[sjaakiejj]

Oh damn Sony's onto us, they sue us for owning hacking tools for Ps3.. Guys, we have to come up with a plan to win this lawsuit! Wait I know! QUICK RELEASE ALL TOOLS WE HAVE ONTO THE INTERNETS! That should win us the lawsuit!

... Are they seriously that stupid? If a lawsuit tells you to stop any activity, even gives you a restraining order for it, how stupid are you to go straight against that and increase activity? They're only digging themselves into a deeper hole.

[silvacrest]

fail0verflow was going to do this anyway but sony certainly sped up the process, in fact they may have inadvertently sped up the whole hacking development by doing this

[KaiokenKid]

I think they should all get bent. theyre acting like this is the man putting them down, even though what they did is illegal. They need to realize that, by doing this, they are putting my gaming enjoyment at risk with people creating hacks that can break my game if I play online, can effect what Developers put on my syestem because theyre too afraid to put games on it or put effort into the PS3 version because peopel are just going to pirate it, and many other reasons. I think they are super naive for thinking this will be used for nothing more then piracey. It dosent matter if they themselves will pirate or not, they are giving every other person the chance too.

[silkrevolver]

...what assholes. Not only is this a total dick move, they’re also stupid for doing this. Sony has way more leverage on their charges now. Stupid friggin’ hackers...

[A LIVING LEGEND]

A thief by any other name is still a thief....

[Guitardr85]

These people don't even realize that they are hurting themselves and everybody in the process. This is thanks to the "entitlement" generation thinking that everything is their right. Too bad they don't realize that there are things that they shouldn't do, regardless if they are able to or not. Just because you buy a can of Pepsi doesn't mean PepsiCo HAS to give you their recipe for it...

Kids today...

[Mottsy]

Why is everyone so negative about these hackers?! The xbox has been hacked for awhile now and it only affects the people who condone this behavior. It is easy to sit here and say sue the Effers! for all they are worth but to be honest they prolly dont have much to begain with. did sony or Ms put a roof over your head or food on the table? so why you guys all jump on these companies dick blows my mind. why dont you go to a site like mininova.org or TPB or any rom site and say the same shit! Grow Up fellas and just let it take its course and stop riding Sonys dick!

[joeorc]

" It is easy to sit here and say sue the Effers! for all they are worth but to be honest they prolly dont have much to begain with. did sony or Ms put a roof over your head or food on the table?"

so let's not have any rules or regulation's let's just say how would you feel if someone allowed for anyone to steal your info..how abougt buy games on your dime. lets just stop all consumer protection laws or Copy right's an artist's an people that make software decide it's not worth it an decide why put it out at all?

that sounds very silly right?

you act like this is just about Sony , well it's not but some are just too d@mn blind to see that.

[Ethereal]

Why is this a big issue? It deters companies from making games. Personally I still want to be able to enjoy my investment.

[Mottsy]

Did they do anything illegal? No! They just opened the door a bit more. Might as well sue google cos if you search download mass effect torrent they will open the door for you and show you the way. We wouldn't have half the sh1t we do now if groups like this didn't explore a little more. If you think companies are gonna stop making games cause of this then you need to know more about this business cos you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Its the vicious cycle they do this game companies and console companies find ways to prevent it. I aint sayin im gonna go out there and download all these games cause im just not for it. But i aint gonna sue the gun store or the guy who bought it before it was fired.

[Ethereal]

I don't know where your pulling all this open the door stuff from and lawsuit talk, but I was merely stating the ramifications of what these "groups" have done. Yes, hackers are inevitable with that being said releasing root keys that are copyrighted software is illegal. The individuals involved knew exactly what this kind of information could lead to if it fell into the right hands. Despite knowing this they release the information to the public which by law they had no right doing. I merely said it could "deter" game developers from making games not that they will stop. I know what I am talking about. The issues of this could not only been seen in decreased software sales but the breakdown of online gaming as we know it(if recent MW2 hacks are a direct cause, although I doubt it). My comment was merely an opinion on the worst case scenario if this gets out of control, aka PSP. Your telling me that game developers stopped making games for PSP just because(other consoles and handhelds are a different story)? I take gaming very serious as a personal hobby and have spent a lot of my hard earned cash on systems and games. Be damned if I can't say that I want to be able to enjoy my investments offline and online.

[supremacy]

Balt
Cajun, basically what you're saying is if Sony were to allow this no one would support them. Right? So basically they'd be in last place. Right?

So really nothing would change. Thank you

lol bro its not about last place, its about earnings and profit margins which makes it possible for products and games to keep cycling. Its what keeps the industry going and part of global economy going strong, well if it were about last place the MS should just open up in japan and Nintendo with the cube when they had a chance.

The moral of the story simply you f with the bread you will pay the consequences.

@evrfighter
called it. Sony just unleashed a can of worms they'll wish they never messed with.

LOL you kidding me right?

if thats the case than Sony has opened up a few cans of worms with poison ready to kill them all.

Sony will eventually get what they want even if the console remains open for other dare devils to try and do things similar of such stupidity.

Pirate bay, napstar and now this will go down in history as the law suit which forced change in our judicial system.

[GSpartan777]

“you can’t put Pandora back in it’s box”

-_-" Pandora was never in the box. It should be “you can’t put the evil back in Pandora's box”

[jeeves86]

I'm glad somebody caught that...

[artsaber]

Yes these guys are hackers, but it was THEFT that gained these guys access to the PS3 - not their "hacking skills". If I steal your password and log into your account, that is not true "hacking", I've stolen your login from you, that's all.

So when these guys couldn't brute force their way in, they had to resort to theft. I am sure someone helped them out from the inside, etc. But they appear to me no more than car thieves who failed at hot wiring a Bugatti, and had to get a rogue dealer employee to steal them a set of keys.

Let's not give GeoHot the glory he was seeking, because he actually FAILED at the hack, and his previous fruitless efforts just got the "Other OS" feature removed. And to be honest, it may be his only defense in court is that he could NOT hack the PS3, but it was the "thief" who got him the key who committed the real crime of stealing Intellectual property of Sony. He just chose to distribute it (which is another crime).

Either way, I'm steering clear of this mess right now. All rookie "hackers" beware, that is all I've gotta say. The public has no more right to this key than they have right to the secret ingredients of Coca-Cola.

[Atlas-1983]

Nice http://www.physorg.com/news...

[OGharryjoysticks]

LOL...losers. Desperado says "we robbed the candy store and now that they after us let's throw the gun we used into the playground so other people can pick it up and see if they go after them too" maybe it takes some attention off us.

[TheJackasaurus]

The hack is pretty darn cool, homebrew on ps3 would be nice but its the dickheads that will pirate the developers hard work that pisses me off. Also ps3 piracy on a mass scale is far away, blank blu rays aren't cheap and ps3 games are huge downloads in the first place.

[Omega Zues]

Well it just happened. Sony followed up.

http://www.engadget.com/201...

[mrmikew2018]

I'm sorry, but that was a pretty dumb move on these hackers part. It's beyond me why they were bragging about in the first place and by doing this isn't this just more ammunition for Sony in the court room?

[outwar6010]

i don't rely agree with piracy or hacking but sony's tis are only revealed to the consumer after purchase and when console is used so these guys didnt actually agree to shit its just an automated agreement so yh thats my viewpoint i hope the case gets thrown out tho

[PirateThom]

The Linux thing?

Yeah, let me tell you a story about the Linux usage on PS3. Before Geohot there was another attempted hack via Linux, Sony released a firmware update that reduced Linux's accessed to RAM and SPEs further. No one complained, people only complained once it was removed when Geohot tried to hack it via Linux and they removed it.

If it was such a big deal, surely people would have complained when Sony reduced the functionailty of it the first time? They didn't, no one even mentioned it because Linux is 99% being used by people not using it for games and, thus, with no need to even update firmware.

And it was an automated agreement, but the terms and conditions can also be viewed online, and they clearly state Sony can change the features at any point, they even gave a choice to update and retain PSN access or leave the the firmware and have OtherOS access... hardly forced or hidden.

[pork_chop_express]

Sony can alter the whole structure of bd game releases, or in other words fill them with crap making every game 50gb, u could limit usb device usage and make ppl buy official ps3 proprietry hard drives.

funny thing is that then makes them sound like microsoft lol and i dont want that.

[jeeves86]

I'm pretty sure that you have to actually select 'I agree' to continue using the console after the ToS comes up. And if you don't agree, you don't use the console.

[outwar6010]

is that rely fair after you paid for it? shouldnt all of this be revealed to each consumer at point of sale? if it was any other product there would be an outrage but sony has there blind fanboys defending them to the death.(imagine there reaction when they realise a big corporate company doesnt give a shit about them and that there pr having been screwing around this whole time)

[jeeves86]

@ Outwar

Do you see what happens when you don't agree to the TOS? You don't get to use the console until you agree to them. Take it back to the store and get your cash back, tell them that you don't agree to the terms of service. If they don't give you your money back, take it up with Sony. But expect not to be able to use a Ps3 until you agree to them.

[Ethereal]

From reading the legal documents I think the difference here that the keys that were stolen illegally through a leaked service tool are software that is copyrighted from Sony. You can do what ever you want the hardware, its yours but stealing keys that are no where to be found the PS3 and its retail software thats where you broke the law. Will be interesting how this pans out. The info is out there and I am sure Sony has software engineers working on how to detect the codes and shut down the use of the system. I agree with the above, the release of these tools only gives Sony more leverage in court.

[arjman]

I'm glad Sony is taking action, why should we (the ps3 gamers) bend over and take it up the ass from these hackers who will pirate the hell out of the ps3 and ruin it for us all

[divideby0]

guess he hopes more will hack and he will still be the source, but now one of many more hackers

[Lucas25]

the members of fail0verflow are located in Europe. Sony can't do nothing to them

[PirateThom]

Yes, Sony definitely do not have offices in Europe and there's no laws in Europe either.

[ironmonkey]

even if a hacker bought it or owns it, your not allowed to tamper with it. you buy a car are you allowed to put nos in it?.

[PirateThom]

This is hardware vs software again.

Yes, you can put NOS into car (it invalidates the warranty, like any aftermarket upgrade, but you can do it because it's hardware).

With a PS3, or any console, you own the hardware, but you're licenced to use the software. Check any game manual and you'll see "licenced to use" all over the place, that CANNOT be changed and it is a crime to edit that without permission.

[jeeves86]

In some places it's illegal to have NOS in a car.

[denero1]

have any of you considered the thought geohot wanted this to happen. . . think about it if he takes them to court and wins this guy will forever be a legend he will be lectured about in classes

with sony of course being this big tyrant company and geohot being played as the beacon of freedom

and if sony wins then the uproar in the scene would cause all types of hackers to come out the woodworks

glad i get to just sit back in watch lol

[rob6021]

Do all hackers think of these guys as legends, or as dumb hackers dumb enough to use their real names in pursuit of fame? It sounds like that's what Geohot wanted, he wanted to be king hacker. If you're really doing what you're doing for the common good, then why deliberately try to seek credit?

[ShiftyLookingCow]

This is really going to be fun to watch.

[Laeto256]

Ya know people were allowed to "mod" pS3's with their own OS and whatnot...how do you think ps3 supercomputers were made? You mod the Ps3's together. Sony only took it away with dumbass hackers starting poking around the SECURITY of the actual PS3 that would enable piracy. When they say their against piracy that's totall bull**** all of this leads to and is for piracy. You had the other OS feature with all of Ps3's power behind it but you had to be greedy assholes and break security, which is illegal, and eff it for the world. Thank you hackers, i hope you rot in jail.

Sony, for the love of God, make PSN more secured since you can beef up it's security and hopefully prevent personal info theft.

[Chaos23]

Yeah pretty soon sony will get your Asses cause you guys are in deep shit... but see ya guys in jail or somewhere where you feel stupid =)

[Chaos23]

Lets go sony, lets go 'boom boom boom'

[Run_bare]

I support the gaming industry, i hope SONY will triumph.

[tunaks1]

homebrew != piracy

[crinale]

Private codes embedded within firmware, including keys, ARE part of the industry's hard work. Tampering with the firmware means tampering with all engineers and their effort behind that.

[vegnadragon]

They are two sides of the same coin.

[Blacksand1]

Im going to sue there asses to, if someone hack my bank acount from the PSN.

[uwazir]

this keeps gettin better by the hour, ahh the joys of life but seriously we need sme more news relating to actual games rather then this hacking stuff kinda gettin old its interesting bt just inform us when the court case is over and sme1 has won.

[Allowen]

Maybe after this good MOVE (not the controller . lol) from Sony then other big hardware and software companies will join the witch hunting ,
Go Apple , Nintendo ,Activision ,EA , and etc. Team up and fight those @$#@#$ crackers (they called thenselves just as hackers.Yah, right)

[maxcer]

if i needed anymore proof that this site is a ps3 biased this article would be it. im amazed at all the headcases that come out in droves anytime negative ps3 news is posted. in contrast here's a 360 hack article that seem to make the ps3 fanboys happy...

http://n4g.com/news/584619/...

[Loner]

Thats the way it is here.This site is full of Sony die hard hypcrites

[Shogun Master]

Its disgusting isn't it? I almost can't stand this place anymore with all the immature Sony worshipers. They make me not even want to turn mine on. You would think they love the system so much they would play it, right?

No, they sit on N4G and protect a billion dollar corporation from behind a keyboard.

NEWS FLASH: Sony really doesn't care about any of you!

[Foxhound922]

You are probably the least bright person here. Yeah because people have time to play their PS3 all day, and there is never a time where people have access to a computer and not a PS3. Get a clue man. People have every right to come on here and defend what ever they want, if its their passion, let em. God forbid anyone come on here and speak their minds. Stop trolling

[Shogun Master]

Sony Defense Force to the rescue! Your right, I can speak my mind whenever I want from behind a keyboard. Talk about trolling, thanks for proving my point.

[Foxhound922]

Yeah and I'm sure the 360 fanboys just hate when the PS3 gets hacked. Grow up, its goes both ways

[RudeSole Devil]

@Foxhound922
"the least bright person here"

You take the cake!

[tunaks1]

Hell yeah.

[MARKUS_MAX1MUS]

I know this may sound hypocritical but your giving these hackers the very thing they want, a name for themselves.

So the best thing anyone can do really is not to comment and glorify or condem the hackers because either way thats just giving them the recognition they want.

The best thing to do is to sit back and see how events unfold.

If everybody thought before they spoke, the silence would be deafening.

[chasegarcia]

its on like donkey kong!?

[CRGKing]

sony has lost the ps3 has been hacked now they need to stop crying and go on with their business

[CRGKing]

i don't know why sony is making such a big fuss about it people were playing pirated games on the ps2 for many years i don't remember sony crying back then

[nix]

CRGKing, i think your kingdom needs few 'fullstops'.

[d3nworth1]

They keep trying to justify hacking the ps3 cuz they want linux but it was cuz they were using linux to hack the ps3 in the first place why it got removed. So I dont know why they act like the victim in all this.

[newhumanbreed]

.....

[DingDangDoo]

People talk about 'Sony' like 'Sony' is just some dumb guy.

Sony is a huge industry. They are VERY rich.

They wouldnt have acted if there VERY expensive lawyers thought there was even the slightest chance of losing.

Them hacking guys will lose, Theres no doubt about that.

* This hacking rubbish wont stop games being made, It might speed up the ps4, It might force more devs into using online pass codes.

Its not the end of the world.

[NeloAnjelo]

The thing is, Sony isn't (IMO) an unreasonable company. Before, when Linux was on the system, the Hackers left it alone in most part. Geohot is the one that was trying to use it. He is a PIRATE, and NOT a hacker. Sony then removed this feature.

The code is out there, and no one can stop it now. These guys need to be made an example of. A large part of Sony's sales comes from its exclusive studios, who recieve good support from Sony. GG, Naughty Dog, Sata Monica, etc. Even non-exclusives studios have grown as a result. You get TIME to make the games you want. This is good for the Industry.

Pirating works aganist this in all aspects and affects not just Sony, but all the developers and Publishers... and you the gamer who pays for your games. We need to ban together and support this guys... Regardless of whatever console you own.

[Sarobi]

people need to accept the fact that hacking and piracy is out there now, and nothing will stop it, sony suing people wont do it, what are they going to do about the guys who are kept underground?, what about the people who are going to pirate and not post about it, or talk about it?, what will they do?, this isn't a thing where you can find these people and its done, its not just the U.S. its everywhere now, you cannot reason with hackers and pirates, they don't give two shits about anything

[wissam]

Didn't they released the private keys for ps3 days ago ? what the worse that could happen. and the submitter fails HARD.

[edilions]

Sony Microsoft Nintendo should also close down the maxconsole.com site since it encourages piracy...Most of the users are celebrating/embracing the hack...

[ATi_Elite]

If you want Homebrew go buy a PC. The PS3 is a closed system and the property of Sony. If Sony doesn't want something on their system then they don't have to allow it because Sony provides the PS3 as a way to profit off of licensing and Apps just like Apple.

The Pc is an OPEN platform which allows freedom of choice.

Geo-Not and his cronies deserve to get sued because they are handing out code or using code for free that Naughty Dogg Santa Monica Guerrilla Games (etc) had to either pay Sony upfront or form some contractual obligation to use this licensing code.

So in short why should you be able to make Homebrew on the PS3 for free when Naughty Dogg had to agree to pay Sony to make Uncharted 1 2 and 3.

[MWH]

"Fifteen men on the dead man's chest--
...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!
Drink and the devil had done for the rest--
...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!"

[ShiftyLookingCow]

If this is like watching One Piece. Geohot would be Captain Buggy.

[Foxhound922]

Yeah Sony could easily win this. It is legal to hack hardware you bought, but releasing it to the world via internet, that will cause serious financial harm and connectivity to a company is not, and will not go over looked. It hacker idiots like this that made sony get rid of linux in the first place. I hope they go to jail lol

[kesvalk]

LOL XD

i knew this would happen, too bad for sony, they don't know how to handle hackers and pirates very (seem by their stupid actions since taking custon OS out)

they called for it, and in some way, they deserve it...

[joeorc]

"too bad for sony, they don't know how to handle hackers"

really?

your going to sit there an make a claim Like that?

OK please explain how you deal with Hacker? hmm like could Sony have gone to these guy's an made an official Home Brew channel for the PS3?

right....like Sony ever since they made the d@mn playstation 1 all the way upto the playstation 3 never once allowed the Home user put other OS so they could make Home Brew for a Playstation platform.

The BS floating around

for the people that just do not get it.

you can trust a Hacker to be a Hacker. nothing is going to change that this was about the hackers taking liberties with Sony's Software IP which it is..the XMB does not belong to you..that is just a fact. this is not about sueing because they hacked the Hardware.

No this is about the Software. And this is one way to get it across to people that the Software does an will not belong to you unless your the one who writes the d@mn code yourself.

here is an example..you can work on a game and someone can work on the same game . So the artist makes some Art Assets for the game you both are working on. you start a new project can the other person use that artists work with out the person's ok?

the answer is NO. SO the person who made the art should just let it go who ever wants to use his art without his OK?

it does not matter if their is 1000 or hundreds of 1000's of hacker's many hackers could care less what happens to another Hacker. why because you got caught it was your own d@mn fault.

go to a black Hat confab. an see what i mean.

these Hackers infringed on a copyrighted work that did not belong to them. and now their going to make sure by law you do it you pay for it ..if you get caught that is.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@joeorc... I get what you are saying. I dont condon hacking of any sort. That said there is a reality that needed to be looked at here. The hacker community is different than just someone stealing artwork or someone trying to make a copy righted product. Its an underground community that can be completely harmless or overwhelmingly damaging depending on how you treat them. They have an unspoken bond...almost like a theives code... once you cross one you cross all... and that is the core issue Sony faced. By going after the hackers personally they drew the attention of all. Sony would have been better served reaching out and ask "GeoHot" and others to not release the key then going after them with a heavy hand. Now Sony is paying a heavy price for their actions against just a few individuals.

[kesvalk]

or they could hire this guys as security experts, and release a new firmware 4~5x stronger and with less flaws than the one right now...

or do you think this guys are not after the money?

get real...

[dragonelite]

Dont know if this is a eye opener but didn't sony actually helped making hardware to do pirating like the VCR and CD rom r. And they fought for our consumer rights that's why its legal to have copies of stuff you have.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

What did I tell you... the hacker community would get nasty in response. Sony, you should have taken ques from others in how you handled this. You may nail one or two people but in the process you have completely opened the flood gates on your console.

Sometimes passive responses to danger are the best.

[helghast102]

Im sick of all of this "homebrew" bullshit, the PSP was hacked (apparently) for "homebrew" and it was all shit. PS3 will be the same, no good will come of it, if you think otherwise you're just deluded.
Linux? If it was that fucking important to you you wouldn't have updated, im pretty sure you have a PC no?

[AliTheBrit19]

Here's my two cents

And it goes for Microsoft and their shitty made console too

If Sony, or Microsoft do not have the expertise to protect their own piece of hardware from being hacked into

They deserve it to be hacked into.

End.

This is a fantastic piece of justice.

I was partial to hacking my PS3 before when I had a bit of free time, but now I want to do it just to spite Sony.

[Ldubbz]

I do remember when the "openness"of the PS3 with its Linux potential was a touted feature among many here on N4G. When they took it away, people here of course defended their JesusMachine...but what did you actually think would happen?

Fact of the matter is, once you open something, even a little, to the coding community...and then close it, its not staying closed. People customize or "hack" cell phones, GPS units, video game machines, you name it. The Wii, DS, PSP, all of them. The 360 is markedly different for one reason; you need a hardware hack (a chip) to start doing stuff. But as far as I know, no one is actually running their OWN software on the 360, rather stolen 360 SW.

With the PS3, the OS itself isnt as secure; its not too different from the much-hacked PSP. Its not a very tough OS to crack, as demonstrated by Geohot. Im sure Sony knew this, which is why they may have allowed for Linux, to appease that community who would in-turn leave the rest of the OS alone since they have plenty to play with. A genius move, one they should have kept in place...

But they of course didn't, and with the PS3's easily swapped-out HDD means that games running right off of a USB may not be too far away...or people with large HDDs already in their PS3 ( I have a 320GB myself) could simply copy games to it. Again, a "feature" of PS3 which could come back to haunt them.

Now with all this lawsuit stuff, they have incurred the wrath. You can agree with either side at this point, but theres no going around the fact that Sony have shot themselves in the foot on this one.

[EskiJoe]

Ok so you are saying that the removal of YDL (OtherOS) caused people to hack the PS3?

Funny I seem to remember that it was removed after GeoHot hacked into the Hypervisor on PS3.

And when you say:
"With the PS3, the OS itself isnt as secure; its not too different from the much-hacked PSP. Its not a very tough OS to crack, as demonstrated by Geohot"

Are talking about the encryption, I thought that was cracked by fail0verflow. Although they didn't retrieve the metldrkey a.k.a 'root key'.

[unusualfire]

Wouldn't it be illegal wiretapping if Sony could come on to your ps3 and download what you have installed on your system without your knowledge?

[Goldenarmz]

makes you wonder, if Sony will sue players who play Pirated games on their consoles. Right now MS just bans people, but if Sony is really trying to make a point i dont see why they wouldnt go after individual users as well. I mean if the music industry can sue you for downloading music i dont see why they cant sue gamers who play pirated games. This could get interesting! And i dont think Sony is looking for a win, they just wanna drag this out and thus make these hackers spend their life savings in Lawyer fees, either way the hackers involved are going to lose.....their houses, cars, boats, trains and other valuables they possess.

[SephireX]

Sony should have acted. Its already here. Geohot warned of his return. Soon after the PS3 was jailbroken, the sons of hacking would deliver the final blow. They did not want to believe, believe it even existed but when the truth dawned, it dawns in piracy! But there's one thing they fear; in their tongue "annihilation", BAN HAMMER!

[Lirky]

Most ppl would support the hackers if their custom firmwares unlocked a mechanism allowing all ps3s could play ps2 games.

Thats is the only thing ppl should care about Ps2 games on ps3 so we can get rid of our older ps2

[Damiann]

I hope they ban the people who are gonna play illegal copies on PSN.

[ren3gade]

Maybe the bigger fish wouldn't eat the smaller fish if the smaller fish didn't provoke it. It's easy to play the victim card and quite sad really.

What bothers me the most is that they are bright enough to create legitimate software and applications. It's not like Sony, or Microsoft for that matter, have closed their ears to people with ideas how to maximize their systems experience, they just have to go about it the right way through proposals, licensing, quality assurance, etc... I think the companies would appreciate that more and maybe open their systems more up to creative minds and give them actual tools to work with. Instead we have people like this who are opportunists and just take advantage.

They fail to realize that hackers are the reason that these systems are so closed off to begin with.