Re: Knocking Down Trees

PS54 responds to Gamasutra's article "Knocking Down Trees" by defending shooters who don't have destructible environments, arguing that in many ways, destructible environments is detrimental to the overall design and enjoyment.

Gamasutra's article is found:
http://www.gamasutra.com/bl...

[ATi_Elite]

Call of duty levels are designed for close combat and "Rambo" style of run and gun game play. the style is actually the "twitch" type of gaming like Quake and Unreal back in the day where the fastest trigger wins.

Bad Company 2 levels are designed for teamwork, vehicles, and holding down certain areas of the map. The destruction adds to the realism of the game. Would be kinda dumb to have a tank that couldn't blow up a building. teamwork and tactics win out in this type of game play.

Battlefield 2 levels are designed for the semi realistic feel of Battle using multiple aircraft, vehicles, ships, attack strategy, moving from point to point, and securing the battlefield as a whole. All most like playing a real time strategy game as so many pieces need to come together for victory.

I just don't think the writer understands that every FPS has a different style of game play and actually they all do it well for the games mentioned here.

[DelbertGrady]

Overall though, BFBC 2 was deeply underrated compared to the attention BLOPS is getting. Imo it's a much better FPS on all fronts.

[Agent-86]

And the excellent Vietnam expansion sealed the deal.

[mrv321]

I'm quite glad Bad Company 2 is under rated because then true gamers who can see past the Activision money scam end up playing these games as apposed to the Call of Duty fan who only buys Madden/COD each year and the closest he's ever gotten to team work was labour and ironically his only correct use of various sexual terms. Unfortunatly that same person hasn't really developed mental enough to even comprehend the idea of changing classes to combat whats on the field. That's right snipers, if you see 2 tanks shooting our base maybe it's worth consider a class change to engineer... and stop moaning to your squad

'SOMEONE TAKE OUT THE TANK I'N GOING TO RESPAWN SOON AND I DON'T WANT TO BE KILLED BY THE TANK NOOB'

While there are stupid players on BC2 note the snipers etc atleast they aren't near as common. In black ops even the humble cold would seem like a rarity next to the number of teamworkaphobes.

[starcb26]

Why do people use BLOPS instead of BO?

[soundslike]

"Clearly destroying a house people are hiding in, so they can no longer hide in it is not strategic and is a complete gimmick.

CLEARLY.

Clearly if they were to remove everything that characterized the gameplay it could one day be more like CS.

...and that's why BLOPS is awesome."

wait what???

[outwar6010]

Whats wrong about asking for more from devs for your £40 investment. Whatever is possible i want!!! i dont want games to get generic because of devs laziness its there job to push boundaries!

[jdktech2010]

lol at the comments and lol at BC2 not being a strategic shooter....While I agree some games don't need destructible cover, BF is anything but a lazy game or poor shooter.....it's a fantastic game and I can't wait for BF3

Honestly, I saw a lot of COD fanboy talk in that article

[WiIIiam]

Both articles were ridiculous. Call of Duty and Battlefield couldn't be more different if they tried, so there is no reason to dictate that they must play by the exact same rules. Still, light environmental damage from explosives would be a nice addition to CoD just to keep things interesting and encourage players to use different weapons and strategies.

[gcolley]

destructible environments are an evolution. BF didn't have them once and is much better now it does. CoD needs to implement it to a certain degree, even if it is on the level of bad company 1 which i actually prefer over number 2. when the latest CoD still plays like the first one i think it is time for a change. destruction in games is not all or none. there can be a degree of destruction and this would make CoD playable again, you don't have to level building but make it a little bit realistic.

blowing shit up = FUN

[Ducky]

Well, I originally hated CS (and still do) because bullets travel through weak material.
I always liked the old mechanic where it's either a clean direct shot, or nothing. There was a very small little for error when making your shots through narrow openings... whereas nowadays it's just autospray and your bullets will cut through the material and hit your target.
TF2 still retains the classic system though.

It would be cool if CoD had more destructible props in the environment, such as the watermelons on Crossfire in MW. Make things more dynamic than static mannequins.
... but I'd prefer if it didn't go beyond MoH's level of destruction (i.e. almost negligible)

[distorted_reality]

I agree with the author on one point - level design for MP has definitely gone downhill, has nothing to do with destructible environments though. CoD's maps have been terrible the past few games, you have to go back to CoD4 to find good, competitive maps.

[A LIVING LEGEND]

A sniper is hiding behind that wall,killing every single man alive,some even by way of claymore..sir.
What kind of wall? hopefully not the indestructible kind?
Yes,that kind.
Oh...well in war,especially modern war,one must make sacrifices son.Send men until his claymores are gone and then rush him with everything we have.
Couldn't we just destroy the wall?
No,that detracts from gameplay and besides,this IS modern warfare.
I'm a little worried he may return upon respawn with more claymores but so can we..:/

[T3MPL3TON]

What I got from this nonsense; "Waaah, I thinks it's a bad idea to have destructible buildings because I'm a camping pansy.. who pretends that other camping pansies can't sit in the same spot the entire game.. waaaaah. I think that team death match is all about me and my attack dogs and my attack chopper. I'm defending a shit game because I'm foolish enough to have bought it day one and there is no way someone is gonna call me dumb for that.... right? I mean geez, why would you want to play BFBC2? Battlefield is stupid because it's realistic and not so over the top it's retarded.. waaaah."

[A LIVING LEGEND]

I don't mind campers,in fact I have a tendency to roast the odd marshmallow myself.
The real problem imo,is that in many games no effective way exists to deal with it.
My little plywood bunker of doom wouldn't seem such a clever idea if said bunker could be destroyed,leaving me exposed to the run&gun players previously frustrated by my cardboard Kremlin.
Even semi-destructible or set-event destruction/alteration can add an interesting,tactical dynamic that only adds to the game.
Calling in an Apache to mow down seven men standing in a field is ridiculous.How about directing its firepower towards the virtual Alcatraz that is an old barn claymored to the roof?
Good map design is important also.The two-way firing squad map with 2 shrubs in the corner and an old tractor in the middle are far too common.You can't place a cluster of abandoned train cars in the middle of a field and then wonder why 28/30 guys are hiding there...
Poor map design promotes the narrow minded clusterfu** where only one type of play is accepted because only one type of play really works....and the remaining perks and weapons and ideas are irrelevant.
In my opinion,the FPS game needs to evolve and fast.Instead of adding 30 useless weapons and 20 cool but useless perks maybe devote some time to map design,bullet penetration, environmental effects,support roles(instead of insta-medics with LMG's),weather/day/night cycles.

[ATi_Elite]

As a sniper in Bad Company 2 I have my KOA card and I'm proud of it. I don't camp just to be lazy I camp to lay down support for the Assault and engineer teams moving forward.

If i see an engineer repairing a tank I got his back, same goes for assault class capturing a flag or objective. Camping to me is about watching my teams back when no one is watching mine. Sure I hate getting stab in the back of my head but for the most part my team advances and suffers less kills when I'm on my A game. I love recon, yelling over the mic where the enemy is and seeing it all play out is fun.

Map design and the type of game your playing determines the ability to camp. You can't camp all day long in BC2 without your building being blowed up on you, catching a tank round in the face, or taking a knife to the dome. Some games have bad level designs therefore if you don't move no one can really see you and that's the poor design of the level.

Go ahead and camp but do it wisely or your team will loose. Kill streaks are nice but I play to win rounds. I sit tight for a minute or two then move forward as my squad progresses. Camping in COD is lame as the game is meant for Rambo play and the little hiding spots are for health regeneration. Camping in COD will not get you a lot of kills or increase your skills.

[s0ph1atr0n]

People also used to defend games that didn't have physics. Can't satisfy people who want Less.