XboxGaming: Kinect 'hands-on' impressions from rAge Expo 2010

"Contrary to the rantings of your local forum troll, Kinect isn't some elaborate smoke and mirrors marketing scam peddled by Microsoft employees the world over to steal your money (although, ultimately, that's what they want), in fact, Kinect does a great job at picking up players and their movements. However, while the hardware is certainly impressive, some of the games on show did highlight the need for more development time to smooth out one or two kinks before the final release."

[Ognipode]

Nice write up :)

[pocketaces11]

Did any of you thinking this was a positive article actually read the whole thing or just the conclusion.

Examples:
ping pong without a paddle really... oh and you can't actually direct the ball... huh??

Then he plays a racing game that does not control speed or breaking and wait the steering is over responsive and not natural.

Did I read any of this wrong it truly and I don't think I'm being fan-boyish here seems like a de-evolution of gaming since this gives you less control.

Don't get me wrong the dance one seems cool and a fun party game and the animal one could be cool for my 4 year old daughter since their is no controller. But then again with no controller that game doesn't even help develop her fine motor skills so what value other then looking pretty and interactive does it add over her playing with a stuffed animal.

Please lets see some intelligent thought provoking discussions about this.

[Bigpappy]

But I do see it as some one who enjoyed the offering dispite some flaws whic he made every effort to point out even when he saw non. To think that kinect will perfectly reproduce your every action at this stage would be setting yourself up for disappointment. I expect it to do a good job of representing my intent so that I fell in controll of the game. For that reason I will be mindful about what he said about limited lateral placement of the ball in table tennis. That is and issue in theat one game that I look forward to trying.
His comments on Dance Central were unnecessary. Etheir you notic lag or you did. he didn't. In other words, if there is lag and you didn't notice any, it does not exsist. Yourshape fitnest is your image in realtime (No avator)if there is no lag there then there is no way to hide it. There just isn't any.

I am getting Kinect for sure. I have seen many videos and listen to many interviews with people after playing with Kinect. I would say 98% of people who used it had positive reactions with no complaints what so ever. Previews and reviews at this point only serve to some me what to look for when I get it. If I find it unbearable to play, I will come here and tear M$, UBi$, EA, EA, Sega, THQ and all who make games for Kinect a new A'hole. But if I like what they offer, I shall sing them praises. I have never played a game without a controller and I will admit that I am excited about getting my hands on kinect.

[pocketaces11]

@GWAVE
I agree 100% the adds I've seen in bestbuy and futureshop totally gear it towards the same market as wii but because it's xbox the kids that are yammering at their uneducated parents will buy it for them. I'm so tired of these younger gamers showing SO much loyalty to a brand that keeps failing them. 1st they cut their lifetime so short on their 1st console. Then to capitalise on their new found popularity they release a shotty product that has the biggest fail rate I've ever seen in the industry by a LANDSLIDE. They also and this is just IMO release a product they know that can be pirated then wait till they have a tone of them out their. Crash them all on them so they have to go out and buy another system. And finally they use their marketing the same way they always do to marketing a crappy product that does less then everyone else's but cloud it in a mirror of crap like "it doesn't use a controller" so kids can sell it to their parents and get them to spend more money.

Sorry that' probably really poorly written but hopefully get's my point accross

@bigpappy I don't really understand what point you were trying to make their. Yes I agree he said Dance Central lag was not a deterent great that's why I said I could see that being a fun party game.

My overall concern is I don't see how this product is anything worth spending money on especially if you are not a casual gamer or a young child.

I mean to me this does not even give any one ups on wii except graphics. at least wii you could actually direct your ball in ping pong and have control over how fast you drive.

The control I have with my move system is insane am I totally told on it yet... no. Am I enjoying what it's offering so far... VERY much. I played ping pong for 3 hours strait and could not get over the control I had. The Frisbee golf is a blast. That's just the one game. All the mini games xbox has so far have shown me no value compared to what I have. The Dance game should be just as easy to do on PS3 and I'm sure will be out. The adventure game although he had fun it seems like it will be very boring after a few quick laughs.

Lastly Bigpappy my comment was directed at all the people talking about how positive the article was

[EVILDEAD360]

@ Pocketaces11

Look..your agenda is clear..if you have to come into an Kinect article and bring up the lifetime of the original Xbox or have to tie in RROD just to make your point then it's clear what your bias is.

How about this..don't buy Kinect..the rest of us like myself will gladly pick up our preorder..

I bought a Move this weekend and after playing it..nothing has changed.when it comes to the family games..Wii is still as fun as ever and I'm still looking forward to picking up Kinect..day one.

I bought the Sports champion bundle..an extra controller..and 3 games..Ubisoft's Raquet sports,Start the Party, and Bruswick bowling...then when I got home I downloaded Tumble, the other bowling game and a bunch of the other demos..

Move is cool..we had a blast with Bocce and Gladiator..the mini games of 'party' where pretty much eye toy standards..and the bowling was ok..

At the end of the day..we still ended up playing Wii Sports Resort for the light saber game and the 100 pin bowling...not because the Wii-mote is the most accurate..but because the games are still fun

I'd recommend Move for any PS3 owner if they want to have some fun and want to fork over the cash..but I'm not going to pretend that Ping Pong was so fun that we would play for 3 hours..LOL..it's not

But I'm sure it's more accurate than Kinect..but who cares?

I have 6 neices and family & friends who come over who are all toddlers and above..and I can't wait for them to play Kinectimals and 'Adventures'..Why? Because they are great family games..

For me I love the control funtionality..the cam connection to Messenger..and can't wait to play games like 'Child of Eden'.

In the end..don't like it..don't buy it..but if you are in every Kinect article spinning the same old stuff..then it's clear what it's all about

Evil

[pocketaces11]

Played many games on wii have similar family situation we all got tired of wii in few days (I still don't know anyone anymore who uses their wii still) and thought that we would almost out the gates. Not the same with move lots of fun like wii was but because of added realism it has way more lasting fun power. I didn't even think I would like that superstars game but we were almost in tears making our characters. Still never got close to that with wii. So I can't say I agree with your thoughts. I hadn't even tried the ping pong game as I was having so much fun with the others but last night I couldn't stop playing. I can't see that being the case except MAYBE for very your kids.

This is the 1st kinect post I've even posted comments on and thought we could have a real discussion but I guess that's impossible on n4g as I found time and time again. The advertising including a new one is just Microsoft looking for more money with the least amount of added value to the consumer.

I do apologize though my 2nd post did I guess go over the top but regardless I think it holds some valid points and I'm glad you think I got my point across (not that anyone is listening) and yes I guess not the place for it.

[Lord_Doggington]

ATTACK!!!!

[ndibu]

A positive Kinect article. I didn't think these were allowed here.
Watch the resident anti-kinect squadron decent and tell us whats really what. I'll believe a guy who's had time on kinect over a jack-ass on n4g any day

[King-Leonidas]

settle down troll and enjoy the article.

[Mr_Bun]

"I'll believe a guy who's had time on kinect over a jack-ass on n4g any day"....or the many videos showing the flaws apparently. This guy even mentions how all issues that people have noticed from game footage are still relevant. How is this a positive review?

Oh, and I love how the 'journalist' makes it sound like any and all negative press regarding kinect are from forum trolls...OK buddy

@below
Think you are in the wrong thread
-1 "off topic"

[k-Lan]

Was Move released to market? I haven't heard anything since.

[lowcarb]

A lot of people have talked it down but to deny the majority are forum trolls is just wrong.

edit bun: "The issues surrounding kinect have been witnessed and recorded."

And as of late all those witnessed and recorded moments have been put to rest. When it releases people can decide for themselves but as far as trolling goes I see we agree.

[Moentjers]

that's because
a) it works
b) it has games
c) it sells

nothing to complain about = no articles

[Mr_Bun]

to deny the majority of problems haven't been captured on video, is just wrong.

With kinect, we aren't talking about the typical speculation that spreads with any 'new' product. The issues surrounding kinect have been witnessed and recorded.

[Philoctetes]

Does it bother you at all that this "positive" Kinect article mentions how laggy it is several times? And that he describes most of the stuff he played as "mini-games?" And that he concludes by saying that it's obviously targeted at the casual market, as opposed to core gamers?

I agree that this was a nice write-up from somebody who obviously liked his brief time with Kinect, but it kind of confirms what most of us have been suspecting all along.

[gamingdroid]

I have no issues with casual games. They have a place in my game library as well and works great when I want to have some fun with the family.

The article mentions lags, but also says it isn't that noticeable. I tried it and it works great. What it lacks in response time, it makes up for in other areas such as full body 3D tracking.

[King-Leonidas]

hahaha i love what they did with the title. ´Hands on´ with Kinect.

[Bgibbs]

xboxgaming.co.za

Can't be taken seriously just like site who review Move with Playstation in the title can't be taken seriously.

[Psynapt1k]

Gee, thanks, like we South Africans are sub-human or something? - We do not have lions roaming the streets over here contrary to popular belief. South Africa is an awesome country with credible people.

[Bgibbs]

Don't be absurd. All I said was sites with "xbox" or "playstaion" in the in the site name reviewing products from their respected company can't be taken seriously.

[Hades1337]

Waits for the usual "Microsoft paid them to say this" comments whenever we get a positive Kinect article.

Face facts, they have obviously improved the technology since E3. The games aren't there yet, but given time it could be a very appealing product to all corners of the gaming community.

[SuperStrokey1123]

The tech likely hasnt changed at all, teh games on the other hand have and there is still some issues. I dont hate kinect but its just its so rediculious to think that the 360 crowd which was the most vocal against how the wii remote made you look "stupid" while you played are promoting kinect... which is easily 100x worse...

[Hades1337]

I wasn't part of that crowd. I thought the Wiimote was too unresponsive for certain things, but I haven't used the motion plus so it's probably better now.

[Studio-YaMi]

even if they PERFECT Kinect to the point that it has no lag AT ALL,I would still not buy this crap.

Not having buttons or even something that you hold in your hands (like a controller or a joystick for example) takes too much away from the ENJOYMENT & FEELING out of your gaming,it's like you feel inside that "am not doing something that is actually REWARDING" !

I prefer a physical accessory over waving in thin air anyday anytime ! PERIOD

[lowcarb]

Then put something in your hand and pretend. Sick of the because Sony said we need buttons but failed with eyetoy spin. If you like motion controls then fine but don't try and pretend one is better when you haven't even tried it yet.

"I would still not buy this crap."

Then why are you here? If Kinect is crap to you then why are you here other then to troll and spread fud?

[Studio-YaMi]

I never bought an eyetoy to begin with,don't act like you know me,ok ?

and I think the same of the Eyetoy and every other non physical accessory,if am not pushing my buttons and being IN the game,how am I going to enjoy it ? by waggling my hands in the air like a retard ? no thanks.

And doesn't Kinect needs to capture all your body ? even you hands ? so having something "in your hands" is another no no,don't you think ? not to mention,what's the use of holding something if it wont function in my game ? I would only be stupid to do that since it's not necessary.

As for your last statement as to why am here ?
what is it to ya ? I have every right to express my opinion & feelings for something,if anything,you are the troll,no get lost.

[Dazel]

no buttons?

[SuperStrokey1123]

pew pew!

[Moentjers]

as a kid we used to shoot with banana's.

just makes me wonder... hmmm, would like to try that one out !

[Stealth20k]

Coming from an xbox site yeah impartial alright

[buffig]

You can be negative about something without being a troll. It's plain to see that he had fun with the device, but at the same time he shrugged off flaws which others may find more obtrusive. When CNET reviewed Move they gave it 3 stars because of the lack of amazing software, yet conversely described it as the best, most robust motion controller available. In this hands on play test he mentions lag, he mentions an inability to actually control the direction of the ball, he mentions dificulty in judging sensitivity. He also mention that the initial software line up is very weak. To me this would be a severe distraction, yet the play test seems to be sugar coated. I think its time for some honest objectivity rather than wishful thinking. It seems like people only mention potential after they have used kinect rather than what they actually experienced. Surely such negatives only point to a lack of potential.

[Studio-YaMi]

Totally agreed on both statement

*You can be negative about something without being a troll.

*It seems like people only mention potential after they have used kinect rather than what they actually experienced. Surely such negatives only point to a lack of potential.

[AceofStaves]

That's the problem with these reviews and previews: they're coloured by the perceptions of the writers. An assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the tech as it exists now, rather than focusing on "future potential" would be much more useful.

[SuperStrokey1123]

Isnt that teh same BS the sony fans have been hacked on for since its launch? So its ok for a MS to release something that has huge issues and lacks software but when sony releases a game system with lots of good games and support that is always getting better its not ok to say "look to the future"?

Hypocrite much?

[ocnkng]

Well said bro. *bubbles.
In fact this seems to be the trend in the mainstream gaming media. Sites like CNet, VentureBeat and I am no doubt, Edge, IGN CVG are all adopting this approach. Move is ticked down because of 'not enough appealing software at launch' and on the other hand Kinect despite having 'lag', 'inability to detect complex finger movement', absence of a single hard core game, a bevy of fitness oriented titles is being given the approval.

[limewax]

Best implementation of cameras I have seen so far is head tracking for GT5, it may be a small thing at first, but if you own a wheel you have to remember you have the lack of ability to look around since you have no analog stick, but add the camera in and a twist of the head can let you view who you are overtaking that bit better which for me, is the reason I am buying the ps eye finally, may get used for lbp2 as well.

Kinect, take a leaf from that book and run with it, for miles and miles, until you have something truly unique, dont make me put my controller down, make me use gestures etc outside of the controller use to add further depth to the games, and dont make them silly gestures like the wierd videos of people playing current Kinect games. You have a good idea there, the tech is a bit flawed in areas so use it for less precise movements that are implemented better in the games.

Its a long run you have to do though, you have to implement it pretty well to get the core community forking out £120 or $150. And with your current lack-luster of exclusive core games its not an easy task, remember that every multi-plat will not utilise Kinect well if at all. I bought your new slim console, now give me a real reason to buy kinect, Sony finally done it with the eye and its much cheaper, I look forward to seeing MS succeed or fail, I just want to see how this all pans out in the end, I couldnt care less which console is on top, But I would like to see games taken further

[Stealth20k]

No matter what anyone says the only future kinect has is when used with a regular controller.

Kinect games by themselves are casual and rail fests,

[dead_eye]

Not the best way to start an article "Contrary to the rantings of your local forum troll"

I'm still unsure about it. Clearly there is some lag which is gonna cause a problem.

And dance central just seems like a dance dvd from what that article says.

[Simco876]

Kinect will be the best thing EVER!!!!

[Dnied]

I get what they're trying to do, and in theory it's pretty awesome for things like interface navigation etc. But here is what I dont get...

If this is supposed be "closer" to virtual reality, why are they removing things that in reality, would be needed. Why would I want to use my hand as a table tennis paddle? why would i want to pretend I'm holding a steering wheel? When I'm in a gun fight I want to be holding the gun and pulling an actual trigger.. Dodgeball.. ok fine.. but the goal, aside from stealing our money, is to make things close to virtual reality and make YOU the controller, but to me this is just a step backwards...

I'm not talking about Move and how it's so much better to have buttons, so leave that out of this.. I'm just trying to understand how Kinect is taking a step forward when they're taking away from close-to-real experiences.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

OK...I get what you are saying. But can we dispell one argument off the bat. MS is talking up "you the controller" stuff alot and "controller less games" because it is the hook to the casual audience. HOWEVER...MS has ALWAYS been steadfast in saying they are not doing away with the controller pad and that many games will interact with both kinect and the controller. THIS joining of the two is where you are going to see that step forward.

Steele Battalion is one game that I think is going to drive home that very concept as they stated you will use both in the game. Control the mech with the pad and use Kinect to activate switches, and dials in the on-screen cockpit which in essense will give you more buttons, etc. than you would have had with just a gamepad.

Imagine an RPG that used a few icons on screen as hotkey buttons for configuratioins of armor or weapons...thus doing away the the radial menus that so many hate and interupt the flow of a game. Just reach up and tap the button to switch on the fly... while still controlling your character / party with the controller.

Kinect can work for the hardcore, and it will...its just gonna be used to appeal to the casual market first.

[ocnkng]

doesn't even show your avatar on screen. what you see on the screen is an AI controlled avatar dancing in a perfect way and you are supposed to imitate the movements, based upon visual cues. At the end you get a score, showing how well you did. Wow. ROFL. If this is true, this game doesn't even need to track you at all. LoL
Also this part from the ping-pong impressions struck out:
"While the basics worked as expected, attempting to alter the ball's lateral direction proved fruitless. No matter how much I tried I couldn't hit the ball in the direction I intended, making for long - and rather boring - rallies where neither my opponent or I made a mistake due to the lack of difficulty. In fact, it's possible to just wave your hand at the right time to return the ball because your on-screen Avatar will adjust its position automatically depending on the ball's trajectory."
LoLzzz

[doG_beLIEfs]

Dance central could easily be done with the PSeye...frakk it could even actually TRACK you and your hands at twice the framerate of kinect at the same resolution.

There is more smoke and mirrors with Kinect than there is at a smoke and mirrors room at your local carnival.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I am the first to admit I am not terribly impressed by what I see.... that said... what I saw from TGS this year is more in line with what I expected to see. TGS games had me excited for Kinect again. I also am to be honest kinda looking forward to the excersize titles as I think they are going to be really good given they can track your actual movement and give feedback on position, etc..

[Skynetone]

to the tv, and if you have a good imagination, you can play any game you want in full 1080p ,and youll save your self 150 pound

if you have no imagination buy Kinect

[SuperStrokey1123]

lol i cant wait to see the parody videos on youtube

[doG_beLIEfs]

This excerpt from the article sums it up perfectly.......

"While the basics worked as expected, attempting to alter the ball's lateral direction proved fruitless. No matter how much I tried I couldn't hit the ball in the direction I intended, making for long - and rather boring - rallies where neither my opponent or I made a mistake due to the lack of difficulty. In fact, it's possible to just wave your hand at the right time to return the ball because your on-screen Avatar will adjust its position automatically depending on the ball's trajectory."

So its just waggle without the wiimote eh? Meanwhile Move in sports champions table tennis...YOU CAN hit the ball in the direction you want...soft, HARD, left, right, forward, back...the precision is beautiful.

Reason number 345234524524523452345245234524 why Kinect is NOT new and why Kinect IS smoke and mirrors. All it is (at least for me) is a wiimoteless original waggle only wiimote....Kinect cannot even RECOGNIZE your hand.....so your avatar has arms with a block at the end....lol

This one too....

"However, while the AI reacted almost naturally to your presence in front of Kinect, the Frisbee mini-game on offer was a little disappointing. Suffering from poor latency, the movement of throwing the Frisbee was visibly off when compared to the on-screen action, and made for a wishy-washy game of fetch."

Again Move in sports champions frisbee golf you have NO latency, the movement of throwing the frisbee is EXACT when compared to the on screen action...again you can go right left, up or down, hook left, slice right...throw it as hard or as soft as you want.

Move is what kinect is NOT...precision, tactile feedback, total control in 3D space, 1to1, NO latency...and you can actually MOVE around in 3D space (no only on rails games)

[ocnkng]

I noted the same points above. But you have to start noticing that the obvious advantages that Move seem to have is clearly being downplayed by most of the major corporate gaming/review sites (IGN, Gamespot, CVG, EDge, Cnet etc)
They actually note the flaws of Kinect and advantages of move but when it comes to actually assigning a score or the final recommendation, they go with "But I am sure it has lot of potential, the tech actually works, most innovative blah bla blah"
I think M$ and 3rd parties have spent a lot of $$ for this tech to fail completely and as long as its the individual gamers who get to waste the money , they don't mind that. Even the professional gaming sites don't want such a big initiative to fail so they just sugarcoat the whole reality.

[doG_beLIEfs]

"joostin on October 7th, 2010 18:02:21

Everything you noted there seemed like reasons not to buy Kinect. Honestly I can only see families getting this junk. It is just a next-gen version of the EyeToy/PSEye. PSEye does full body tracking, head tracking, voice commands. Only thing it doesn't do that Kinect does is 3D spacial awareness, but that is what the MOVE is for. Who wants to play table tenis that you can't aim or change position really? Who wants to drive a car by only steering with inaccurate controls? Who wants to paddle with imaginary paddles? Have you ever tried the arcade river rafting game? It has a paddle and it is fun...this looks like no fun at all. Really only people with kids under 10 should ever think of buying this. Just seems like the same games we had on PS2 with EyeToy and PS3 with PSEye. At least Sony was creative and made games like Eye of Judgement.

Nothing unique about this tech aside from the stereoscopic cameras."

[beardpapa]

Seriously, can you guys really trust a site that ends in .co.za ?

[btk]

I live in SA. Why would you not trust something from South Africa?

[slutface]

Yea says "Xboxgaming"....of course he's gonna praise it lol. Gtfo

[bustamove]

I'll say it one more time. Kinect is going to pretty much fail unless there are hardcore titles and the technology has been proven overall.

[blackburn5]

I agree about one thing. Taking the controller away is a bad idea. A perfect example of this is Sonic Riders. The game wasn't very good to begin with but now they are taking the controller away and making it worse. The person previewing it said it was so uncomfortable having to constantly bend at the hip to play and in the end it was so badly controlled he couldn't even come in first place. That is what throws me off Kinect. It isn't even virtual reality. So many things that you do are unnecessary and unnatural. The controlling the pedals with my hands thing in Joyride is so strange. It makes me wonder when these people insist that Kinect works how well it works. Do you come in first place in races? Are your commands understood ever time? How long do you play before you start feeling tired or exuasted? Does it react and respond to every sharp turn or quick movement? Is the A.I. challenging? I don't think I will jump on board the 'Kinect is the future of gaming' train just yet.