An RPG is not an RPG When it's a JRPG

Genres in video games are already confusing mazes of definitions: action games, adventure games, platformers. As gaming technology develops, some genres slowly become obsolete, such as top-down racers and on-rails shooters, yet we as an industry cling to ancient terminology and archaic descriptors for modern games. This leads us to ask what exactly is a role-playing game, and how can Western and Japanese versions of the same genre differ so dramatically?

[Nike]

"You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character. I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? - but they're not RPGs."

This quote from Bioware summarizes the article accurately. It seems to be that JRPGs - by eschewing character creation and personal choice - aren't really "role playing games" to the author. Because playing the role means playing it, and we all have different ways of playing. But for me, all the defining traits of combat systems, stats, dialogue trees, etc. are all just used to best pull you into the story. Where you "play" a "role", even if the story's events are fixed and it feels you're acting along.

It's a long standing arguement and I don't have much time to weigh in, but I'm perfectly comfortable mentioning Mass Effect, Fallout, Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment in the same breath as Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VIII, Vagrant Story and Persona when it comes to great role playing games.

[MariaHelFutura]

This whole WRPG vs. JRPG thing needs to stop. It seems like sites are just trying to start something between the people who like each genre. Fortunately, I love both and I can see through what their trying to do.

[Redempteur]

i can't agree more ...both are cool and both try to make you immerssed in their story
is xenogears inférior to baldur's gate ? NO they are just on opposite sides of the same coin..as for me i can enjoy both because i don't try to mix them

[wicko]

It's incredibly stupid. There's a reason there is a W at the front of WRPG, and a J in front of JRPG: They are both subsets of RPG. It seems these guys think WRPG is the definition of RPG, and its so very wrong. At this rate, I predict articles to pop up about how third person shooters aren't shooters because they aren't in first person.

[joeyda]

"It seems to be that JRPGs - by eschewing character creation and personal choice - aren't really "role playing games" to the author. Because playing the role means playing it, and we all have different ways of playing."

Right.

It's an argument more rooted in semantics than anything else. I hope people don't just flock to this because they think it's an exercise in bashing JRPGs. It's not. It's a discussion about genre.

[Nike]

Nah, nothing like that. Some RPGs let you do whatever you want (actually "play" the "role", as in you are Marshton and can do whatever you want as him) and others have you acting out the role (like when you play as Cloud or Squall and can't control the different plots triggering) but deep down, they're both RPGs in that they're trying to draw you into the story, even the setting.

But yeah, it's not bashing any particular kind of RPG (which any one will see if they just read the article). It's a point of view that's been around for a quite a while, only enhanced by the amount of freedom current gen RPGs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age have brought forth.

[joeyda]

Yep. You've got it down in my book.

[wicko]

I disagree, to me it looks a lot like bashing JRPGs. Looking at that article its pretty obvious this guy favours WRPGs over JRPGs, and explains that JRPGs are "Cinematic Turn-Based Nonsense Games". C'mon, if that isn't genre bashing I don't know what is.

[nickjkl]

every game that makes you play as a character is technically an rpg youre still playing the role of a character in a game

[rumplstilts]

Going by this logic, any game with a character is a rpg. I could imagine myself as Sonic.As unpleasant as that would be,

[MariaHelFutura]

This is getting ridiculous. Demon Souls and Tales Of Vesperia are great JRPGs. Just like Mass Effect and Bethesda games are great RPGs.

and here`s to hoping FF13V lives up to my expectations......

[TheBatman_Fanatic]

It's not FF13V it's Final Fantasy versus 13.

[KingItachi]

It funny how JRPG's are under fire now a day,I'll take Xenogears and Suikoden series over any WRPG.

[DelbertGrady]

Those are both great games. The problem is that not much has happened with the genre since they were released. They still play the same, with their level grinding and random enemy encounters.

[Ether]

Meh, I just think that the term "Role Playing Game" in itself is pretty moot now, given the diversity and interlinking of genres. Just take "JRPG" and "WRPG" as what they are now, arbitrary terms used to refer to a particular class of games.

[Optical_Matrix]

So when I was playing White Knight Chronicles, clearly I wasn't playing an RPG....nor when I spent the last 15 years of my life playing the likes of Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Golden Sun, Grandia, Legend of Heroes, Ys, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger...what a pile of bullshit.

@Below: I understand that this is a discourse on genre. But define role playing game. One could argue JRPG's aren't RPG's but have elements of. Could I not say the same about Mass Effect for example? Which is a TPS with RPG elements. You're right in your comment above, it's all about semantics. But these days the RPG genre is so broad, I can't see how say WKC is any less of an RPG than Mass Effect.

[joeyda]

I'm almost positive all you did was read the headline and then comment.

[piratesyar]

No one is questioning the quality of those games. They're fun games. Skies of Arcadia was some of the best time I spent with my Dreamcast (except for finding that hidden city...). But I wasn't doing a lick of roleplaying. I was just carting Vyse and crew around to each story point.

[Redempteur]

roleplaying have différent meanings depending of what you enjoy.

and jrpgs are rpgs ... not everyone has to make rpgs the same way and some people can't enjoy one or some can enjoy both

[CBaoth]

Sure you created an avatar, but the choices are the same. The end result is the EXACT same whether you're good, neutral, or evil. You've fallen for the illusion of choice, nothing more. Would you consider RDR an RPG? Most people wouldn't, it's an open-world adventure set in the sandbox genre. But break up the missions, add a dialogue tree, force gamers to play through it twice to see both evil & good missions (mexican army vs. rebels as an example), and doesn't that suspiciously sound like the aforementioned companies' games?

[atticus14]

guess what, you were playing the role of Vyse. (hint: RPG)

a long time ago when games stories where basically on the back of the game box and not in the game... an RPG game meant that there was a fleshed out story which become synonymous with hand drawn games that featured turn based combat and random encounters. Fast forward a few years and gamers started expecting stories from all their games, and now you have pretty much every game being somewhat of an RPG in a literal sense.

Now those 3 letters R.P.G. are thrown around so easily that they dont really mean anything anymore. Most the time when a developer/typical gamer says "RPG" it means it has to do with game mechanics like leveling up, stats on weapons, etc... which forced someone to come up with term jrpg to describe what was once the RPG of the old days.

[x5exotic]

does WRPG even exist lol? and dont say mass effect cuz its a TPS

Final fantasy is the best RPG evar

[piratesyar]

You're too hung up on mechanics. It's not turn-based combat and inventory management that make a role-playing game. It's *role-playing.*

[x5exotic]

im not talkin about gay turn based LOL im talking about FF12 and FF13 :)

[NYC_Gamer]

do you know what role playing mean?

[x5exotic]

i think it means final fantasy....right? :D

[Sharingan_no_Kakashi]

Is a game where you choose a role, as in knight, soldier archer etc. Of course there are a lot of other defining aspects. But WKC, DQ8, and a lot of others are JRPG's that fill all the requirements so this argument that JRPG's arent RPG's is false. Doesnt have anything to do with opinion or different perspective. It's just false.

[joeyda]

That's why it's called "genre theory." It's a growing study, man. There's no such thing as hard fact when it comes to genre.

[StoicGriffin]

Agreed, the RPG genre is so different from East and West. I personally get annoyed that JRPG's don't let you make your own choices, it's just more like a animated narrative, which is cool, just not an RPG to me.

The term of RPG is being redefined, and JRPG's need to realize that.

[Redempteur]

and why the term must be redefined ?
because you said so ???

Nothing changed between the 2 sub-genres in decades !!

[ChickeyCantor]

Role playing also means you "develop" the character you are playing as.
It doesn't have to be a creation of your own.

[piratesyar]

That's not untrue, but selecting their spells and which items they equip is hardly "character development." I'd agree with that to some degree in a game like Deus Ex, because the myriad options make your minute to minute actions matter.

[kraze07]

Role playing and Role-Playing *Games* are two different things imo. Sort of like there being two different meanings to the term martial arts, one being a way of fighting and the other being the art of war. They strongly relate to each other but at the same time they're different if you know what I mean. This whole arguement is complicated and based on different people's definition of what an RPG is.

[Apotheosize]

I like how they're really only criticizing one game, FF13.

[Cloudberry]

.
: l

[floatingworld]

I love both and don't know why one has to be elevated at the expense of the other. They both have incredible qualities and they're each unique in very specific ways. Leave JRPGs alone!

[piratesyar]

I'll put it this way. Yakuza 3 has been one of my favorite games of 2010. I like Japanese games of this variety when they're well-crafted and have interesting characters. But I don't feel like I'm playing the role of Kazuma - I'm not making decisions for him. I'm steering him around. He's just an awesome character to steer around.

[Yue9]

are the best hands down if it wasn't for Jrpgs i would of quit gaming a long time ago..

[Figboy]

why don't we let JRPGs be JRPGs, and WRPGs be WRPGs.

personally, i love them BOTH.

i love the often quirky, extremely Japanese stories and characters seen in some of the best JRPGs (Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI and IX, Rogue Galaxy, etc), but i also love the more D&D style of the WRPG, where you have a lot more control over how your character looks, but in truth, you're still being lead through someone elses story.

not all Western RPGs follow the Oblivion and Fallout mold, and even those games are only letting you play a scenario, not craft a tale from the ground up.

if it was a true Role Playing Game, you'd be able to create your character's origing, the name of your family (if you have one), and everything else about your character.

selecing "Spacer" as an archetype for my Commander Shepard isn't exactly giving me unparalleled choice, and selecting from the "non-douche response," "indifferent response," and "douche response," isn't opening up the narrative any more than an RPG that decides to dictate the story. ie, SPOILERS: Shepard still beats Saren no matter now much of a saint or sinner you decide to play the game as. whether or not you sacrifice one character for another doesn't affect much of the outcome of the game besides a few conversation strings and scenarios in the second title.

this misconception that WRPGs are somehow more complex and deep than a JRPG is false.

they both do different things extremely well, and that's why i love them both.

i can go from Mass Effect to Final Fantasy and not miss a beat. i thoroughly enjoy them for the VERY different experiences they both provide.

i don't NEED my games to be cookie-cutter productions.

sometimes i want a nice, linear narrative that tells me a clear cut story. other times i just want to wander around the Wasteland and fuck up some super mutants and discover shit. both are equally enjoyable in my book.

why should i, and other gamers like me, not be allowed to enjoy both? why should we be forced to align ourselves with one camp or the other because of some poorly conceived and executed attempt by the games media to drum up a rivalry where, just a generation ago, there was none (KOTOR and Final Fantasy stood proud in the pantheon of RPGs back then).

[ian72]

JRPG and RPG are different but both are RPG's. I like RPG's but not bothered about JRPG's.
I'm also not really interested in RTS games either, but I do like all other type of games.

[iceman2885]

Role playing in their mind means you have to have every choice about everything that happens in a game like the approach that WRPG's have.

Well, let's take a look at the definition of role - a part or a character played by an actor or actress. Going by this definition, JRPGs fit perfectly with the definition of role playing game. The player plays the role of a character in a storyline that is already set up, similar to the way an actor or actress plays the role of a character in a play.

Advancing the storyline through that character is as much role playing as playing as a character in an open world where you get to make all the choices. I'd argue that their supposed definition of RPG is more fantasy b/c one is living out their fantasy rather than playing a role.

Of course, this whole argument is pointless and stupid. I have nothing against WRPGs, actually Dragon Age is my favorite RPG of any style in years, but for these editors to take such a western point of view and view their idea as right is indeed, very narrow minded and lives up the the 'western' stereotype.

[kraze07]

Wow. Looking at the comments it's obvious who read the article and who didn't. It's not about JRPG vs WRPG, it's about the definition of what an RPG really is. They're talking about players having almost full control over a characters choices vs stats , experience systems, and other elements that involve a character's growth. Most traditional WRPGs have both so it's not really focusing on how the sub genre is different than JRPGs. It's more like a discussion on whether games that involve number crunching, min/maxing, and stat tracking are actual RPGs. IMO they are.

[Seekerofthewind]

There are two kinds of 'role playing', and the problem with this article is that it only supports one of the definitions. The D20 definition, if you will, where the character is crafted by the player.

There is a second definition, which I would call the theatrical definition. You play the role of a character, as he goes through a story written by a playwright. This fits the literal use of the combination of the words used in the term, and fits into many (if not all) JRPGs. Some would argue that this is also a trait of many games nowadays, to which I say...JRPGs rarely, if ever, have any defining traits outside of the battle system, and cinematic traits (i.e.: Story, characterization, visuals, etc). Just like the defining trait of a platforming game is normally the gameplay, the defining trait of a JRPG is normally the story and/or characters, with some exceptions.

Therefore, I would contend that, while a JRPG is frequently not the D&D definition of a role-playing game, it is instead of the theatrical definition. A game that has more focus on character development and story, instead of gameplay. After all, actors have very little freedom in governing who they are playing as when they decide to try out for a part (Outside of deciding whether or not to try out, of course), unlike people who play a D20 game.