Microsoft Kinect Math: 2 +2 = 5

No one's really compared Microsoft's price comparisons to what the costs are really going to look like for people who already own a Wii, PS3, or Xbox 360, without removing all the extraneous nonsense. What does a price comparison with the bare minimum number of peripherals to get to multiplayer motion gaming look like?

[KazumaKiryu]

That's basically who it will appeal to. People who can't add.

[Vip3r]

More like people with more money than sense.

[Denethor_II]

I like the way 'KazumaKiryu' said it better.

[EinRobot]

More like people with more cents than sense.

[rockleex]

But it made sense(cents)!

[Lord_Doggington]

I like that he mentions at the end that MS should be giving these equations to more mainstream publications as opposed to the video game industry. However, I get the feeling that they're trying to ignore any comparisons whatsoever in the mainstream. Rather then make it "better" than Move/Wii, they've removed them from the equation altogether and don't even mention them in their booths, commercials, etc. To me, this is smart marketing. There's no reason to mention the competition if you're doing something "innovative."

There's also nothing wrong with mentioning the competition, as Butler does in his PS3 commercials. It's just a different strategy.

I personally believe in the price points Move = $210 (for two players) and Kinect = $150 (for two players). Granted, Move probably is a more rewarding experience for the developer and for the hardcore gamer, but that's clearly not the demographic that MS is going after for the holidays.

Through 2011, though, there's really nothing MS can say or do, no matter how amazing, that will change the minds of stubborn fanboys. They have become so irrational that they'd rather wallow like pigs in their own retarded filth then try something new...

[mastiffchild]

Thing is, though, Lordy, MS haven't shown us anything "amazing" , have they? Which negates any talk of value completely. My worry for semi ignorant adopters of Kinect is that articles like this ADD to the confusion. Sure, literally, Kinect is capable of multiplayer gaming in the home but I wonder how many Wiis would have been adopted had only TWO family members been able to play together? MS sure aren't advertising the fact only two can play(why would they?) and to me it's the biggest issue outside the current lack of good games either core OR casual.

We've all seen people buying their Wii with three extra sets of Chucks and 'Motes, no? I don't know as the extra cost is the biggest factor nor ever has been. They liked the motion controls, sure, but the inclusive nature was the big deal from what I remember. What will casuals feel after buying Kinect, finding half the kids have to sit out and then not having anything good to play post launch? If MS don't come along with some stunning stuff there will be a lot of upset people who might always feel gaming is a con and be turned off for good.

Naturally, that's worst case scenario but, seriously(and I WANT Kinect to be great and WANT to want to buy it), what is there currently to make a serious gamer in the know recommend Kinect to ANYONE? I couldn't do it with a clear mind or sleep easy at night having done so right now and don't see quite why anyone with some knowledge WOULD support MS over this one just yet or until we actually see something other than the scope and ambition being reduced since last year.

I agree that the selling point is it's difference(though so far the games aren't anything beyond what we might have expected from expanding Eyetoy tech but there's time for better)and in this respect Wii and Move aren't relevant even if MS are going after Sony on VERY shaky value grounds(esp with you not needing two wands for any games -even if it's preferable for some -or a nav controller AT ALL)but even so there's little reason, to me, to jump in bed with Kinect in the current state of affairs.

I don't agree, though, that people will stubbornly refuse to see if MS find something great with this tech-I think there are fools on both sides who refuse to see(for instance one well known 360 zealot last night claimed Move had neither casual NOR core games coming FFS!)any good in the "opposition" even when they all spent the last five years poo-pooing ,motion controls n general but they're just a tiny minority even on here as even those with a clear preference will usually, like myself, give credit and a purchase where it's due. At heart most of us really ARE gamers and behave as such but I can't see any reason, at this precise moment, for anyone to be excited by Kinect whether they have been gaming for years or minutes-why do you feel that this stance means I'm being unfair in some way as that's the tone I sense here. Sorry if I read you wrong.

[Lord_Doggington]

Well, obviously when I talk about fanboys, I'm not referring to you. You seem to have your head on straight. There are those here that I think would turn their nose up at a head-tracking-new-age-scifi-ga me that would turn the industry on its ear. I mean, c'mon, it's N4G. Neogaf HATES this place because of all the fanboyisms and thinks it's a joke. You're one of the few reasonable people here so I would expect you to see its value if something neat came out. I purposefully avoided talking about any games in my last comment simply because you're absolutely right. There are no games that have been announced for Kinect.

MS has been devilishly clever with their marketing tactics, though. When the release date for Move (its primary competitor) approaches, could you see MS waiting until THEN to announce some kind of AAA title? Maybe not something that will be released before the holidays, but something, nonetheless. I know it sounds a bit naively optimistic on my part, but like you said, I want it to succeed as well. But as of today, you're absolutely correct. They have not shown any decent software for its release (at least stuff that we don't deem as innovative).

Where MS shot themselves in the foot is where we would have numerous articles from devs touting the positive impact the peripheral would have on the industry (prior to E3). Now suddenly they're completely silent. Devs from Capcom, Bungie, and Valve were all talking about how it's going to change the industry. We wanted that change at E3 and we didn't get it. Not only that, we don't have really anything to look forward to...not even a teaser discussing how tremendous it'll be in 2011-2012.

I don't know a whole lot about the public's reaction to the Wii's "inclusive nature." I have read, however, numerous positive reactions to play Kinect. There are people out there having fun as well as numerous positive articles (arguably even more then negative articles, excluding those who haven't actually PLAYED the demo). Also adding in preorder sales and general online hype numbers, I'd say that MS is doing a pretty good job with selling Kinect. They might not have what WE want now (and that's every good reason why we shouldn't buy one now), but we shouldn't discount the possibility that they might have something up their sleeve...

Anyway, I'm glad there are people here like you. You didn't read me wrong. I think there are some scummy people here who claim to be gamers but are in fact just looking for a club to join. Those who are gamers, I hope you're with me when I say that I'm hopeful MS will release something viable for Kinect.

[WildArmed]

Well to be honest, You dont need 2 sub-navigation controllers..
From what I understand there is no game (atm) that supports 2 player offline Move/Navi controller on one console at time.

Maybe RE5 Gold Edition will, but time will tell.

The thing is with move, you DO require atleast 2 Moves for the multiplayer experience.
And 1 sub-navi controller.
The price came to about 120$ for me. (with a 10$ off for combo deal).
But I still wish that PSMove was 40$ each, not 50$

[rdgneoz3]

Sub controllers aren't necessary at all. You can use a DS3 in place of it and it'll work fine. And seeing as some people have the PS Eye already, the price is cheaper for them.

p.s. http://cache.gawkerassets.c...

[WildArmed]

The DS3 is quite unconfortable (from pesrsonal experience) over navigation controller.
Since the wieght is uneven when you hold it in one hand..
And try hitting L2/L1..it aint pretty

Yeah, I already own an PSEye ^^ since 08

[Alos88]

Maybe the technology is still really expensive, hence the price. If so they have to make a profit somehow.

[Soldierone]

Three points I got about this "war"

-played both at E3. Kinect had all kinds of "requirements" in order to play, and even then it was still basically a closed doors experience and it still had plenty of problems. Move was easily walk up, grab the controller, hold it to your face, push a button and play flawlessly. No problems at all, it felt the motion perfectly, and was the better experience.

-MS is good at brainwashing people, exactly what they are doing here. Its gonna keep happening and its going to sell well for a few months because of this. The good news is if all these flaws still exist, it will only be a few months, and MS will lose the power of brainwashing people. Thus Move sales go up thanks to them.

-Need we bring up the HD DVD and Blu-ray war again? When Sony wants to push something new, they want to push something new, and nothing will stop them. Nuff said.

[jack_burt0n]

^truth

[Ju]

I think so, too.

Kinect will sell because of the hype.

But, eventually I believe reports will show up what works and what doesn't. MS will counter with even more marketing $$$, but the better product will eventually make its way. At least for people who care.

And who knows, most of those camera games will work on the PSEye as well. Maybe we'll see a rebirth there.

[RedBullGT]

Does anybody know if the adaptor comes with the Kinect for the people who already own the old 360's? I know you do not need it for the 360s, but you do for the older console models. If it doesn't then that is an extra cost for the people who only own the original 360's.

[FragMnTagM]

that the Kinect will work with every 360 right out of the box. The cable article a little while back was for an extension of the new cable for the redesigned 360. It definitely wouldn't have plugged into any older 360's as it was shaped like the one on the back of the new 360S. So no, there is no extra cost for a cable for either old or new 360, only if you want to extend the cable that goes from Kinect to the new 360S.

[air1]

who only has one controller? I'm sure most ppl have at least 2. That alone gives kinect the price advantage for 150 you get a complete package you do not have to but some kinda wiimote. Thwe thing is 150 if the price of 2 games are going to break your bank account then I have to question how many games do you even buy in a year.

You ppl and this bs math. 150 for niect done deal you have evrything you need move on the other will more then likely need another controller and nunchuck you can't go hiding the fact that you will need another nunchuck eventually just to make the move look like a better deal. And not just that but even though no games that I know of supports 4 players but I do know that you can play with up to 4 ppl on kinect at no additional cost. Mind doing the math if sony decided to do a 4 player game that you really want

[Nitrowolf2]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

[blair_enigma]

lets say its 4 players as u want, i dont think, judging as how it is now, that kinect will 'work' with 4 players. the xbox/kinect just can not handle tracking 4 players at once FLAWLESSLY. it will be all over the place and not process it right. the move on the other hand with 4 controllers, it may be more expensive but it works. it will track it right hence price is not an issue as long as u give me precision accuracy and experience.

[Ju]

"That alone gives kinect the price advantage for 150"

I know, right? That gives you a huuge advantage over, aeh, $150 for the Move+2nd wand.

Ah, ... wait ... what ?

[strickers]

Kinect is 2 player and standing only for games at the moment.I have played 4 player Super mario Bros Wii quite a few times and I only own 2 Wiimotes,how?I borrow other pads and guess what?I know quite a few PS3 onwers,at least 5 of which are buying Move.

[insomnium]

Exactly! Bring your own stuff over and let's play.

If you have several kids who all want to play well then they need to learn to share......or save their allowences for a Move of their own.

[air1]

you know what, the thing is 150 if you cant afford it then i feel bad for ya. if you can but dont think its worth it then fine. its obvious that you ppl want your motion to work flawlessly and in your little imaginary world move works flawlessly, it has no problems. so be sure to buy it.

i am looking forward to both day one, i will admit that i favor kinect a little more though. it has nothing to do with who has the most precise accuracy ( to me). what i want out of kinect is not too much motion, i want to hold a traditional controller and just do gestures in a game like lob a grenade or reach out to open a door etc. i really dont want to hold 2 seperate controllers but dont mind adjusting. at the moment although micro hasnt announced a game that supports that hybrid yet i am hoping that they do and realize that if any of the 3 was to do it would be kinect first.

i am also interested in useing kinect to navigate through netflix and new interface with nothing in my hands. those are enough reasons for me to support kinect at launch. if micro fails to deliver then i lost out on 150 while micro looses millions.

you guys sit there and bicker about an other 50 bucks we all know its too much to handle for most of you that dont have live cause it costs too much. you can thank me later if something big comes out of kinect for supporting it (and move cause im sure many of you are all talk and wont get it anyway) and if it fails then shame on micro for loosing millions of dollars and for ruining hardware and software that has huge potential.

if you have to do so much math to justify buying kinect then for your sake dont buy it.

[Trroy]

My favorite part about Kinect is that it's best placed exactly where the Wii sensor bar sits. You're gonna have trouble using both without a lot of tape.

Also, perhaps even more humorous, is that accessories like the nunchuk or Nav controller seem to be primarily used in gaming experiences (single player -- so you only need one accessory, as well) that Kinect *can't even provide*. Making MS's inclusion of those accessories, in their price comparisons, extra awesome.

[Ju]

True.

The comparison should be EyePet: $49, Kinect: $150 (+$50 if you want a Tiger, there).

both come with a camera and a game and deliver about the same experience.

[LevDog]

Or Ps3 owners with an eye already can get 3 move controllers For the price of kinect

[blair_enigma]

2 moves + 1 subnav would be good?!?! better?!

[LevDog]

Haha.. Ya that would work too

[guerojose]

MS obviously wants everyone to be discussing price comparisons, as it serves their faulty premise: that somehow Wii=Move=Kinect.

Nonetheless, even this article misses one glaring point: that many of us can get into Move for $50, since we already own a PSEye, and already have Move-enabled games.

[strickers]

I'm buying 2 Moves,1 nav(I have PSEye).It will cost £87.Cheaper than Kinect.

[AllroundGamer]

i just wonder what happened to this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... , shouldn't all the Kinect actions be possible with the old Live Vision? many youtube videos showed you need only a simple camera for that...

[EinRobot]

Its about fun. people will find a way to afford something if it is fun enough. You would think MS would be talking about the fun aspect. Tell us the details. stop saying its cheap and tell us what "it" can do. like Sony is doing with echochromeii and FPS support and 1-to-1 accuracy. Sony doesnt really have to concentrate on telling us how affordable it is. They are busy telling us the cool things we can do. But I guess you can only say "pet skittles" in so many ways. oh wait I forgot jumping. Kinect has jumping also.

[cliffbo]

not a bad article. but for the base users (those that already own a PS3 or a 360) the MOVE is £50 and Kinect is £130... it's as simple as that. for those who want to invest in a new system entirely or have never owned a console ever, the money may be one factor but 3D and Blu-ray will surely swing it Sony's way, particularly now that HD has fully infiltrated the market now. if Bob wants to buy a console for his kids then wouldn't he also look at the benefits to the whole family. if he has a HD TV, wouldn't he want to be able to watch the much hyped Blu-ray films he's been exposed to on a daily basis via TV adds?

[btk]

Compare the 2 door 4 seater compact small car to the luxury minivan with 4 seats. Conclude that although you will have no space for even hand luggage, suffer from cramps after seating 4, the small compact car is better value at slightly lower price than the minivan that can take 4 passengers in luxury, their luggage, fishing gear, golfbag and lunch. Announce that the compact car has now rendered the luxury minivan obsolete. Omit that the 3rd and 4th passenger can only be in the compact car when it is not actually moving - or it will fall over.

Makes about sense...

[Kakkoii]

He "forgot" to add the price for Move's Nunchucks lol. Or else all you're getting is half of Move.

[SolidSystem]

or use your DS3.

[gumgum99]

Yeah...the price for Kinect is just...I have no response for that.

[SolidSystem]

here is the minimum to play everything
150 for kinect
vs
Move bundle (99)
and a second move controller for the boxing game, and the way Sony has depicted many other games. (40)

140.

both I will be getting.

[DigitalRaptor]

Kinect is the epitome of style over substance.

Hype and good marketing will sell this bad, overpriced product.

The vastly better product will be overshadowed and disadvantaged yet again because of Microsoft's thirst for dominance.