Tales Studio's Debt: What It Means For The Series

For those who have been following the Tales news as of late, you likely already know that Namco Tales Studio is in severe debt, barely covering their short-term debts and with long term debts almost four times their current reserves. With all this uncertainty, one question naturally comes to mind --- how will this affect the series from here on out?

[mephman]

Could this be the end of the Tales series?

[ShawnCollier]

If Namdai continues to whore out the series, I wouldn't be surprised if that came true. v_v

[Selyah]

Let's hope that doesn't happen then.

[synce]

Whoring out a series doesn't kill it. Look at Final Fantasy, the biggest whore out there. Namco's problem is that they don't take risks these days, or they do just plain stupid shit. I'm sick of mediocre Tales sequels... Their brightest idea was Idolmaster and they managed to screw that up by putting it on the 360

[Da One]

SE knows what the hell they're doing. Namco has continued to mismanage the Talse Of series for years.

[ShawnCollier]

@synce: The issue is that unless you are Final Fantasy and have the fanbase to sustain that, having so many games spreads you too thin.

[GenghisKhan]

xboys pirate games all the time, except for failo.

that's also the reason why game companies are now providing exclusive features on ps3 games. this is an added motivation for multiplatform owners to BUY the ps3 version instead of pirating the inferior 3fixme version and miss out on exclusive content.

i, too, am a multiplatform owner but i buy all my games for the ps3. i use my 3fixme for heating.

[Tony P]

Looking at the numbers, (assuming they're accurate) there's no reason why anyone should be blaming the 360. There is a noticeable dive in sales regardless of platform.

There were articles about how well the PS3 version sold-- *on the first day*. But it ended up only doing a bit better than 360 according to VGChartz (if they're accurate).

Would it have done better to go to PS3 first? Probably. Enough to stave this off? I think certainly not.

[SOAD]

3fixme? Oh, how creative you are. I have never heard of that one before. /s

Maybe if the games were actually good, they would sell. But no, let's blame the console.

Face it, the days of Japanese games and JRPGs are ending. There's been a major shift.

[Dragun619]

NamcoBandai and Namco Tales Studio should release a Remastered Tales Collection for PS3.

I mean, they have Symphonia (PS2), Rebirth (PS2), Legendia (PS2), Abyss (PS2).
That or they could release Tales of Vesperia for PS3 in EU/US Territories.
Maybe they can also put Destiny (PSX)& Eternia (PSX) on PSN as a PS One Classic.

Better than making more Tale games on DS and Wii.

Tempest (NDS): 200,000
Innocence (NDS): 230,000
Symphonia: DotNW (Wii): 220,000
Hearts (DS): 250,000
Graces (Wii): 190,000

[Seferoth75]

I like how you just make up sales numbers there kid.

Tales DOTNW Wii =420k
Tales on 360 did 500k
Tales on PS3 is the worst selling on in the series at 350k.

Most expensive platform to develop and the lowest sales to boot.

PS3 is most likely the reason they are going under as it is.

Disagree all you want kid. You cant prove me wrong. Which is why you just hit disagree and ran.

[Sarick]

PS2), Legendia (PS2), Abyss (PS2)

I bought Abyss last year and had more fun with it then the last 3 RPG's on PS3.

I'm still waiting for Tales of Vesperia for PS3.

@Seferoth75
As for the PS3 having lowest sales numbers that could be attributed to it getting sloppy seconds off the 360 limited exclusive rights. The majority of gamers who bought the 360 versions are comparable the same groups who watch movies at theaters instead of waiting for the DVD. They where the fan base that was most interested then. The only choices was buy it for 360 or wait it out.

I can only assume if TOV was launched simultaneously on PS3 and 360 in Japan those numbers wouldn't have been anywhere near the same. In fact they might have been reversed if PS3 had the game first. If you think 350k is really good for a game that was released a year earlier on another platform.

[Chris399]

As opposed to a game released in every region of the world, like 2 years ago. Several years of sales across THREE territories vs. 6 months in ONE territory. 500K vs. 350K.

Which version is selling better by your reasoning?

Edit: @ Sarick. Yeah, Abyss was a solid game. There was a terrific amount of game-play in that title.

[beardpapa]

sef : worse rationale ever.

[Da One]

but you have it completely wrong

Tales of PS3 is an enhanced port of an already made game which means 350k of easy already made money

while the 360 version has to cover the entire cost of development, the PS3 version doesn't have this burden.

500K across 3 regions vs 350k in 1.

[Hardedge]

Well that kinda sucks, Tales isn't as big as FF but it is still quite a fun experience.

[ShawnCollier]

Yeah, part of the issue is that Namco thinks the series will attain FF-levels of sales, when that's just not the case.

[JDouglasGU]

yeah, definitely a niche series, but hopefully they can press on.

[Trroy]

Stop making Wii/DS Tales, and make one for the PS3. Also, release ToV for PS3 in NA and EU. Voila.. money.

Also... The studio's assets sum to 6.5 million yen? That's only like $75K USD. It can't seriously be that low. Something is funny with this article. Did they mean 65 million yen?

[ShawnCollier]

Any profits from ToV PS3 outside Japan wouldn't put much a dent in this debt issue.

They're gonna need to do a lot more radical changes to get out of this one.

[Mahr]

"Stop making Wii/DS Tales, and make one for the PS3"

No offense, but that advice is not very good. The Tales series is in the state that it is for a lot of reasons, not the least of which being that there are so many exclusive titles spread across so many systems that no one can follow the series without owning virtually every console under the sun.

Now, Bamco could have avoided the current mess by making nothing but exclusive Tales games for one system and cultivating a fanbase on that system. The problem is that that ship has effectively sailed by this point. All that throwing an entry on just-the-PS3 is going to accomplish is further fracturing what fanbase there is.

The most sensible option for them would probably be to take more time in between releases and limit the number of iterations they keep putting out, keep things multi-platform to try and cater to the spread-out user base until they have a chance to consolidate next generation, and either release or license someone else to release their games in the west.

"Any profits from ToV PS3 outside Japan wouldn't put much a dent in this debt issue."

Maybe not, but every little bit helps, and Vesperia PS3 edition is in no way the only bit that the West has been denied. Hearts, Graces, Innocence, etc.

We'll forget for a moment that the western release of Symphonia managed to be a major success -- and on a system with as poorly-cultivated a fan and install base as the Gamecube's. Even if the Bamco people do not want to take the risk with the localization themselves, they could sell the publishing rights to someone like XSeed, or even those awful people at Ignition, and still make a profit, which is by definition more money than they get out of leaving them in the Land of the Rising Sun.

"They're gonna need to do a lot more radical changes to get out of this one."

No question. Personally, I think locking Bamco's senior management in a closet for a couple years would be a good start.

[TheColbertinator]

Make a new Tales game multiplatform.And for God's sake,advertise it.Folks are starving for RPGs.With FFXIII selling well on the west the time is now to cater to the JRPG market

[tplarkin7]

JRPGs are dead. Stop making games based on 20 year old ideas.

[Trroy]

I have to disagree with this. Tales games are not traditional JRPGs at all. IMO, more Tales style games are exactly the kinds of RPGs that could revive Japanese gaming development.

Choosing the correct platform is critical, however. If they try and sell it on the DS, or the Wii, they're gonna fail. Tales games scream for a good arcade controller -- like a DualShock 3 or a 360 controller. They're just not as fun on the Wii and the DS, IMO. It also doesn't fly with the Wii+ClassicController, because the "dongle controller" idea sucks. I only bear with it because MH3 is on the Wii and not the PS3.

[Chris399]

The PS3 version ALONE of Final Fantasy XIII (a mediocre game in the series, at that), outsold Mass Effect 1 and 2 combined (as far as consoles go). Final Fantasy is a juggernaut. And in case you weren't aware, it's Japanese. And an RPG. That makes it... you guessed it! A JRPG. One of the highest selling games of the year (possibly "the" highest selling at this point in time) is a JRPG.

And newsflash, but if you're older than 20 you'd know that Bioware has been doing the same thing for two decades - rambling dialog trees. That's not a bad thing, but seriously, you need to educate yourself.

[Tony P]

I don't agree with JRPG = dead thing either.

But that right there is unfair comparison. Does anyone really expect BioWare's new RPG they invented a few years ago to outpace a major franchise that's been around for more than 2 decades?

One which has not only spawned 2 decades worth of sequels, spin-offs, re-imaginings, and remakes, but mountains of anime, manga, comics, toys, and misc. merchandise as well?

Perhaps it's a credit to them that they are compared to the biggest dog in the yard despite having only a fraction of the resources. Does anyone bother comparing them to the likes of devs that aren't also major publishers?

[SaiyanFury]

Good call on the Bioware thing, Chris, I've been saying the same thing for years, "another Bioware game". That said, they do really make some cool and awesome games. On the sales of the Tales games, coming off the Super Nintendo you have US, the PlayStation generation. Moving onto the PlayStation I adored Tales of Destiny and it today remains one of my fave games in the series. Then the series moved onto the PS2 where games still sold a crapload (in JRPG terms). Then Tales Studio moved away from the PS crowd to focus on everyone else. This is where they made their big mistake. There are absolutely fans of the Tales series on other consoles, and that's cool that Tales Studio brings games to them, but ignoring your staple audience completely ON THE PLAYSTATION BRAND pretty much shows their ignorance of the gaming market. I'm glad they released the definitive version of Vesperia on PS3 in Japan. We know it's coming to the west already, just announce the game already Namco!

[Chris399]

But it's one that is made ALL the time. From Bioware's own snide (and likely taken out of context) comments, to the hundreds of articles we see each year on how the "JRPG Is Dead". Killed by Bioware's creativity and the like. That comparison exists because others have made it, not just myself.

I'm not slagging on Bioware, they have made some really complex dialog trees over their careers :P I kid, I kid, but they are terrific developers with a great sense of scope.

[Sigh]

what it means is, if they ever survive any potential of being out of business, DON'T IGNORE OTHER PLATFORMS next time. Some studios can handle exclusivity, in Namco's case (see Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm, Tales of Vesperia 360 at first, ace combat) they are an exception. They can't afford it.

[kesvalk]

its not even about ignoring the consoles, this generetion alone counting the handhelds, we had near 10 tales games, but only 3 or 4 came to the US, and the titles that came to the US seems like random choices...

like, they decided to hold tales of destiny 2 for PSP and in its place they made a complete new (and lame) tales for the US, they brought tales of the world to the US, but tales of the world 2 for PSP never came to the west...

they treat the franchise like a pile of crap...

[zatrox]

Well, they kind of looked for it.
"Let's release a game! then let's release the SAME game a few months later!"
"Let's never localize anything and be all like JAPAN ONRY!"
What the hell would they expect?

[Infernostew]

Bamco really needs to start licensing out some of the games to other publishers that they don't plan to release in the US themselves. At least they'll get some cash for their properties instead of letting them rot in their game vault.

[Godmars290]

Probably less - than the less than nothing - support on the PS3.

[oneangle]

It's baffling how they have the ps3 version completed but not localized to the west. At least try to get somebody else to localize it. It wouldn't hurt to support a console that doesn't allow your games to be pirated either.

[chiwoo]

Put out some games for the Ps3 and not just ports i am a fan of the series its seems this Gen a lot of developers in japan is struggling which is why Square enix broght eidos. Since Handhelds took over Japan its hard i say just give the Fans what they want

[Seferoth75]

I love the fact that people here are clueless to how poorly they are actually doing on the PS3. That is most likely why they are going under..

BTW kids the Tales for Wii outsold the Tales games for PS3. and PS2.

You kids always forget development costs too which is highest on PS3. Tales Wii had 420k sales. To make the same money on PS3, the PS3 version would need 1.2 million in sales. Now they have 350k in sales. Not hard to see the PS3 is the cause of their money problems.

They've at least profited from a lot of those Wii and DS games. Cant say the same for those 300k PS3 games though.

[Sigh]

with that mentality Tales studio will go out of business. It needs to go to ALL platforms, not just the wii.

[Trroy]

First off, you're making a lot of assumptions about Wii dev costs relative to PS3 dev costs, probably based on the comments of some western games studio heads on the cost to develop Wii shovelware vs actual games on the PS3/360.

Secondly, ToV PS3 was a *port* from the 360 version. Ports are well known to be dirt cheap to make, relative to the original title. It has probably made Namco/Bandai is pretty decent chunk of cash, and its only been released in Japan.

ToV 360 + Japan-only PS3 absolutely destroyed the Wii Tales in sales. If you're looking for even a good starting point for your cost-to-develop assumptions, based on Western dev comments about shovelware cost vs real game cost (more relevant than the platform, IMO), you should start there, not with the sales #s of a port, and assuming it cost as much as the original to make.

[Seferoth75]

Yes and how do you kids explain poor PS2 sales? Your BS excuse doesnt work there.

I have seen nothing from any of you disagee phantoms that proves me wrong.

@trroy, I am going by what a major developer said that Wii games cost a third of PS3/360 games. If you have some kind of proof to prove them wrong I would love to hear it but I'll believe a developer before a devoted follower who fights facts with opinions.

It's not just Tales games that sell poorly on PS3 but every single game they offer.

I am sure you kids think calling it a year old port is justified but I doubt the people that run the company are looking at it that way at all.

Did it matter to EA that they butchered Dead Space and brought out a late crappy on rails version of the game? Of course they never even thought about that. Same with PS3 sales. Excuses are a lot like reviews. They do not pay the bills.

[Redempteur]

i'm glad you ran out of bubbles you're clearly not a "tales of" fan , or a jrpg fan for that matter..

[patterson]

Namco made some really stupid decisions by going 360 exclusive on Tales and Idol Master. It would be like Activision saying, "Let's sell Call of Duty exclusively on the Wii and see how that turns out"

It's on that level of stupidity. I love the Tales series but damn, just stupid management. Hope they recover and learned from this.

[UP]

dont forget about piracy for the 360 as well

[Spenok]

Well that certainly sucks, lets hope they continue to make them. There some great games.