Total War not coming to consoles unless it can "replicate the experience" on PC, says Creative Assembly

VG247: Creative Assembly's Mark O'Connell has told VG247 the Total War games won't be coming to consoles unless it absolutely can "replicate the entire experience" that is found for the series for PC.

[Geralt]

Good to see them sticking by PC. Will certainly be supporting them in the future.

[snaz27]

with crisis 2, do you think they will be the same? however i agree with you its nice to see them wanting the game to be best it can be.

[Blaster_Master]

I know the 360 version couldn't handle all of the enemies on screen like the ps3 can, plus the ps3 has usb and mouse support, I got blu tooth keyboard and mics of course. Man I would kill for Total War on my ps3. KILL!

[JsonHenry]

For the love of the game DO NOT DUMB IT DOWN FOR CONSOLES!

I know console only kiddos don't understand what I mean when I say that, because to them the consoles are so much fun (and they are at times) but ANYONE who has ever gamed on a PC knows what I mean when I say "dumbed down for consoles" and it makes them cringe just thinking about it.

[A Cupcake for Gabe]

At twoface and champ

there's a tab for you to go to the land of bullsh1t and dreams call open zone. bayonetta was a fluke which happens from time to time. lets compare bayonetta 360 version to GOW3. or cpmpare gears 2, forza 3, splinter cell, alan wake to GOW3, or Uncharted 2....STFU

[ProjectVulcan]

The consoles dont have enough memory to fully replicate a PC experience RTS. Supreme fail commander on 360 was an absolute disaster. As a result the sequel has had the amount of units more than halved, claiming it is a design decision. Nothing to do with the fact 360 simply couldnt cope with a game of the original scale then? Yeah. Ok.

Any full on RTS like total war or supcom for console, EXPECT compromises. Whether its graphics, units and thus gameplay, or the simple epic control borking of a gamepad

Proxy below clearly hasnt played supcom on 360 then LOL

Pc meta: 86
360 meta: 56

[Proxy]

It would be rejected for all the bugs and crashes, should they exist. Thus, the true experience cannot be replicated on console.

[STK026]

Like Vulcan said, current consoles cannot handle a RTS like Total War featuring so many units on screen with a surprisingly high level of details. The Cell might be able to do wonders (mostly when you consider it was released in 2006), but it can't create memory.

Both the PS3 and the X360 have been able to handle CnC3/RA3 nicely, but even then, they were inferior when compared with the PC games (both in graphics, performance and obviously, controls). And the CnC games have never really featured that many units on screen at once compared to games like the TW or Supreme Commander series.

TL;DR it's not only about controls, large scale strategy games are too demanding to be ported without compromises.

@Proxy
That didn't stop Hour of Victory, Tony Hawk Ride, Gundam Crossfire or Stormrise from coming out.

[darthv72]

i would think the edge is ps3 right there. It can handle a mouse/keyboard where as the 360 can not.

[pixelsword]

"The consoles dont have enough memory to fully replicate a PC experience RTS. "

Lair came out in 2007 and had 5,000 characters running around on the ground, if not more, plus hundreds of dragons, multiplte types of beasts, monsters hundreds of feet long moving around, catapults, trebuchets, ships, thousands of arrows flying around, lush and intricately detailed buildings, particle effects, lighting effects and going on an inconsistent but applicable 60 frames per second @ 1080p on a 32x32 relative mile battlefield.

Compare the battlefield of Total War to Lair's battlefield:

Total War:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Lair:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

so, oh yah; the PS3 can handle it.

The pathetic thing is people who love games like Lair missed-out on a once in a lifetime game because they succumbed to fanboy hate.

[evrfighter]

i don't see thousands of units on screen at once in real time in this lair game...I just see a dragon flying around in a scripted battle

...

lawl

[ProjectVulcan]

'Lair came out in 2007 and had 5,000 characters'

Maybe i should explain more for you. Firstly Lair is 800 x 1080. Thats LESS resolution than bog standard 1280 x 720. The problem here with your reasoning, is that Lair is a console game first, and an action game second. The sheer volume of rendered enemies isnt particularly comparable to an RTS game. You could name a few console games that employ a great deal of individual rendered objects at once- But it really does not directly compare to a Pc RTS experience with games like empire total war. Most RTS games by their very nature involves non linear, on the fly completely dynamic battles for one thing, unlike Lair. This means you need to reserve some memory as usage can increase, as the battle develops, unlike Lair. There is no scripting, any of the units could be anywhere on screen at any time. This makes the game consume vastly more quantities of memory, and CPU cycles. RTS individual units also have to employ MUCH more complex AI routines than something simplistic like the completely scripted battles in Lair between the units you describe-as in your example. Its more than just a case of but look! A console can render X amount of units. Said units have to be completely autonomous. In lair as the person above put it 'its just a dragon flying around'. Exactly lol, everything on the ground is basically scenery. Its not at all dynamic, you cant influence it directly apart from doing your specific scripted part.

Finally, you claim up to 5 thousand simplistic units on screen for LAIR? Empire total war can employ double that and does on several occasions. So if you want to render a couple thousand scripted dudes on screen at once with the consoles, then fine, no problem. Now do it with RTS AI routines, and NO scripting. Its just not possible without cutting back a game like ETW.

In short layman terms, What you claimed is like saying there are thousands of individual 3D people in the crowds in the stands in a game like Fifa or NFL whatever, so console has enough memory to do RTS games. Hmmm. Its not quite the same thing.....

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Replicate graphics? Probably not.

Replicate performance? It can surely get pretty close and maybe replicate it.

Replicate gameplay? Totally possible. PS3 accept almost any KB&M, I'm pretty sure 360 has peripherals of the kind too, it's up to this devs program for it!

For how long will devs keep playing the witness? Blame the hardware limitations (which barely exist), blame gamers (there is always public to any genre in all platforms), blame anyone else.

It's pretty simple, eigher devs want to do it or don't. There is always some minor obstacles, the games won't ever come out totally the same version to version, but it also never had stopped anyone, if they wanted to put Total War on consoles they would, it has nothing to do with 'replicating the experience'.

[pixelsword]

but what I said was 100% true. I've seen all of that before.

fighter, your fanboy comments aren't even worth commenting on, since the vid I provided totally blows what you said away. If you "don't" see any people then it's because you can go 20,000 relative feet in the air in this game; but look below at the clip. I know it pains you, but what can I say; you asked for it.

vulan,

Maybe I should explain something to YOU:

The Cell B.E. is what is a broadband processor: it's strength is that with the right programming techniques, massive memory is not required. That's why the saboteur could run at a resolution higher than a PC, and why the you can get 256 players on a game with no lag, and thousands of enemies on a game like Lair with the detail that it has. The only problem the PS3 has is that there's no wealth of libraries like the PC has, but in time and year after year the PS3 libraries are growing, and with it better and better results. That's why you haven't even seen a game like Lair on the PC or 360; and that's why the first thing PC/360 fanboys do when the PS3 is talked about is run right back to Crysis. PS3 fanboys are just as annoying, but at least they don't have to run back to Killzone, they went forward with Uncharted 2, now Heavy Rain, next GoW III; that's what all should do, but when you can't it's because of two facts:

1. the 360 isn't being invested in properly to bring out the power

2. neither is the PC. It's a shame, but it's happening.

for the vast libraries and ease of use for both the PC and 360, you'd think that the technical achievements would be a little more frequent, but they're not.

There's no why the PS3 should have got that higher than 16xAA for the Saboteur before the 360 (heck, that should be more common on the PC at lower requirements... because of the memory you described... which didn't help, obviously if you can't get the same results on a PC with the same amount of memory)

You can try to explain that 1080x800 isn't "1080p" but somehow I never hear you comment that upscaled != 1080p. Incredible. At any rate, Lair is listed as "800×1080/1600× 1080" and is always listed as a 1080p on HD lists, so you can argue a moot point all you want, but it is recognized as a 1080p game. All because you don't doesn't negate that fact. Besides, I've seen Total War: 1080p it ain't. There's nothing on it that a SDTV couldn't handle.

Lair is also non-linear; all because there are a few actions that are required before others in some parts of the level doesn't mean it's linear, because it doesn't; you don't actually have to do a lot of that in any sequence; you can totally ignore a lot of your duties to do other things out of sequence and still complete the level, but like all levels, you do have objectives to complete to advance; just like you can have two armies in total war and have to defeat one in order to advance an scenario; you can't ignore them, nor can you make an alliance. You've never played Lair, so you wouldn't know; speaking from ignorance will do that. But if you want to insist, then Total war is extremely linear because all you do is fight the enemy, to put it plainly as you have done.

And yes, 5,000 enemies at once, if not more, with everything in between. If you stripped everything going on and put a flat stage on like Total War, you'd probably can do two total war stages packed to capacity. In Lair, there's a dynamic RTS game going on the ground, but you wouldn't know that unless you've actually played it.

Watch the whole clip from each side, if you can.

Again, compare this:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
*(notice how the armies dynamically react to the dragon; some run away; others attack: particularly at 4:45 where one guy hacks at the dragon and at 4:55 where the player moves up to an area where the two armies are fighting)

to Total War:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Notice the detail at :45 and 1:19

Lair has Total War whipped on it's best spots levels; and this is running on a fat PS3: the slim has a faster processor and there's framerate improvements on Lair. Yeah, if you flatten out the terrain for Lair and take away the intricate buildings, dragons, creatures, and detail on the characters and replace all of that with flat lands and boxes for buildings that Total War has, I'm confident that the PS3 can handle whatever Total War can offer with ease.

[pixelsword]

when I said "speaking from ignorance will do that" it was not meant to be hostile, but if you took it that way, I apologize. Ignorance just means you didn't know, but I can see how it can be looked-at as hostile.

[ProjectVulcan]

Im sorry pixelsword but as a Pc gamer with if i may so so myself, extensive technical knowledge, very little of your claims hold any water. Claiming saboteur can run at a higher resolution on Ps3 than Pc just because it uses an AA filter that would run much faster on a modern PC GPU if the developer cared to implement it, unneccesary on PC because high level MSAA combined with double (and more) PS3's 1280 x 720 res for said game delivers more consistant quality across all pixel edges.....claiming that CELL is responsible for 256 players online as if it isnt possible on other platforms when it just is, clever netcode is the key. Basically at all thinking PS3 is anything like a match for a gaming PC, thinking a game like Lair isnt currently possible on Pc etc etc. its all nonsense im afraid.

I didnt care to read much more than that, because you really arent making a great deal of sense much like how you cannot understand why certain games require and demand different requirements from hardware, such as large amounts of memory. No amount of processor cycles CELL or otherwise can make up for a lack of simple memory, current techniques can only compensate so far- it that WASNT the case, we would all be playing crysis or whatever else on the consoles on par with Pc, or we could get it to run on a commodore 64. Or PS3 wouldnt suffer the plight of constantly reduced textures or resolutions on dozens of games compared to even 360 which has more memory available. Avoiding the whole issue i raised about scripting gameplay, triggered events versus completely autonomous AI....you cant dismiss them with a bunch of videos, describing total war as not 1080P....when you can run it whatever damn resolution you fancy on Pc right up to 2560 x 1600 in game settings....

Arguing that 800 x 1080 qualifies it as a 1080p game is silly semantics when it hasnt the total resolution of a 1280 x 720, and completely misunderstanding the definition of a linear game....its a bit of a disastrous comment from you im sorry i wont write anymore on it lol

[dj55555555]

you can put a mouse and keyboard on the PS3 so what will the difference be play wise?

[snaz27]

and they would have to put joypad controls in the game so that everyone could use it.. i think its cool for pc to get some exclusives anyway.

[sarshelyam]

Devs seem to forget that the PS3 supports standard Plug & Play USB devices. Why not sell a bundle with a keyboard and mouse? What could possibly be the hangup aside from this considering the Total War series isn't exactly the most demanding software by comparison?

[tdrules]

why not play it on PC if you want mouse and keyboard.
why not play motion games on wii if you want Playstation Arc

[Blaster_Master]

Trust me dude, it would sell as much on the ps3 as it would steam. I dont know why this isn't under development yet? Its Creative Assembly for crying out loud. They are lagging way behind, but thats the general PC mentality when it comes to software and hardware. Teh cell is amazing. LOL!

[peeps]

because altho some ppl could play with a m/k on ps3, they would have to support controller, which the majority would use. and well controllers have never really been v good for rts lol

plus total war has a lot going on on screen, i wonder if the consoles could cope without some major cuts being made.

[dj55555555]

Yes but I haven’t got a PC that can play the new total war games (and alot of people cant afford a new PC) but my PS3 will have no problem at delivering this game.

Also the wii offers no game content that interests me

[evrfighter]

that is true but there would be a cap to the amount of units per battle....I'd imagine it wouldn't be very much

[dj55555555]

like i said the PS3 will have no issues with this game, it will not need a cap

[XXXCouture]

tdrules - because the ps3 has double... no triple the amount of graphics than the wii?

[Sm0k3y_Bac0n]

Didnt unreal 3 have a Mouse and Keyoard option?

[Ravage27]

It never cease to amaze me when the ps3 version of games like RA3,Stormrise,CivRev and EndWar ship without including m&k support. Just goes to show how lazy most of the multiplat dev are these days when they can't be bothered to take advantage of the hardware differences.

[snaz27]

ofcourse if the option is there, they should use it, people say it would take more money to use the ps3s benefits, but really how hard is button mapping? lol, and besides they are getting paid! the want ps3 money, so use the damn thing to the best of its ability, im sure if devs did that, they would see a sales spike no doubt!

[Letros]

Those are all terrible RTS, bottom of the barrel. The problem is you cannot ship a game on PS3 without native controller support, regardless of PS3's ability to use M/KB. There are a ton of people who would just refuse to hook up M/KB, attempt to play with controller, and bomb reviews and sales. I've never seen a good RTS on consoles, Halo Wars was mediocre, but if you try anything complex it goes down the tubes.

[snaz27]

but why not give the customers the option? surely all thats required is some button mapping, no big deal.

[Letros]

I guess the easiest way to explain is, you are a developer for a series that considered top notch, you have a reputation, you would not want to see your games fail regardless of the platform. Moving to consoles will require you to utilize a controller, change the entire interface, adjust the pace and difficulty of the game, and test to make sure it works, regardless if the system can support M/KB.

This is not even getting into porting Direct X code to OpenGL. Really it should be Microsoft supporting M/KB on Xbox, but they fear that people will see it even more of a PC than it already is.

[Blaster_Master]

Ive been saying that since 2006. Welcome.

[free2game365]

No one uses KB/M on the PS3, it's pretty much a fanboy novelty.

[Letros]

"Some games are more suited for the intimacy of the PC, and others are best played from the couch in front of a larger TV screen."

Did anyone think for once that developers could be happy with sales on once platform, turning profit, making a living, you know the whole point to being in the business. When publishers lose money on games due to ridiculous development costs, it sort of defeats the whole purpose to publishing games.

@below, you assume it would sell well on consoles, personally I just don't think console gamers are into RTS like PC gamers are(the same holds true for many console games, PC gamers just don't like them). Believe it or not, the market is very much different.

[snaz27]

surely porting the game to 360 (cheap pc) wouldnt be that hard? and would open up the game to nearly 40 million new customers, i think it could cost more for a ps3 port, but not that much, especially with another multi million userbase to sell to? but anyway like i said good on em for staying exclusive.

[snaz27]

but id say it wouldnt have to sell that many to get thier money back, all im saying is there is a huge market in consoles, so lots of potential customers.

[gabens]

i want a total war game on my ps3 so bad... i wish the want can help with strategy games when it comes out

[champ21]

yea but the lolbox or the failstation cant handle the game.

We dont need another game getting dumbed down due to lolsoles :P

[comp_ali]

@ gapens ,.Devlopers have invented Auto-aim for FPS games to suit console gamers , but they can't make Auto-Victory in RTS games , that's why it is very hard to create a solid RTS game on consoles , no matter it was X360 or PS3 or whatever.

[bjornbear]

please no! Total war would NEVER work with a controler....

this is the only time i'd say Natal or Arc should be used for it

but if it does happen =O ZOMG

[peeps]

chances are we will c an rts that uses natal or arc, but chances are the tech works well but the game is crap lol i can c it happening now.

with a good dev it could work though

[pixelsword]

Pillows?

From what has been shown so far, I can't say that Natal has the precision to handle this type of game.

[tdrules]

oh look console owners expecting everything on one platform.
guess what guys, having everything on one platform screws up the Games Market

[jackalman]

gives a crap???????????

[peeps]

ppl that wanna play total war but don't have a decent pc? just a guess?

whatever, i can play it lol just felt i needed to state the obvious to your question

[EvilBlackCat]

nope console casual gamers hate rts games

halo wars is the best rts on console and they hate it... or is just ps3 fanboys who hate everything halo?

[RetroPietro]

it looks crap anyway.

[W-k]

i wouldn't play that game if it came out on consoles any way,i dont really care for RTS games.why would you want to play a RTS on a console anyway.

[Ares84PS3]

I think it would work great with a controller.

[cpuchess]

Replicate the experience?? You mean all the crashes to desktop that people were having with Empire Total War (total crap more like it). ETW was so full of bugs and had the dumbest A.I. Just go to their forum section and look at all the problems people were\are having with it. Their previous games were good like Rome Total War, but their last one sucked ass.

[Blaster_Master]

There is no reason for exclusivity unless its coming from a first party publisher. I mean cmon, its not like they cant release it on the pc then make it for consoles. Its creative assembly, they put out R6V then they obviously know more then you all.

[RagTagBnd445]

I'm really sorry, but the console hardware would not be able to handle a total war game in the same quality as the PC.

[champ21]

If only sony would let the developer use all the power of the cell, ps3 would be playing all games as good as high end pcs.

Lets hope sony decides to do so before the gen ends :P

[RagTagBnd445]

Even if sony did so, the PS3 would still lack behind the PS3.

[mcnablejr]

WoW and stale rts games ;)

If Onlive takes off, all the ''rigs'' of the world become even more useless. XD

[RagTagBnd445]

Nope, because most of us hardcore PC gamers, know why Onlive sucks too hard, and is only good for developers and not customers.

[Letros]

I'm a huge RTS buff ever since Dune II, but honestly I'm not really into Total War, a bit too slow for me, Dawn of War 2 is where its at right now, extremely fast paced and full of tactics. Chaos Rising xpac is out next month and its already the top seller on Steam(The first game to bump Bad Company 2 off). StarCraft 2 will be similar in terms of fast paced action, games along those lines just would never work with a controller, not to mention GFWL and Battle.net are their multiplayer connectivities.

Relic understands what PC gaming is, and they are making Space Marine (a GoW inspired game for consoles, because its what works on consoles and what the player base enjoys). If you really want in on the best RTS games available(where you actually have to use your brain), I recommend getting into PC gaming.

I leave you with purely epic kill syncs from Dawn of War 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[champ21]

Agreed i notice most console gamers do not like the RTS genre. Again most of them never have tried a proper rts on pc to know what the difference is. Starcraft 2 should be a good time to explore this genre for console users.

[hoops]

These consoles do not have the memory or bandwidth and GPU power to fully realize RTS games such as this and Supreme Commander.
These consoles can have hundreds of charecters on screen at once if not thousands...but then watch the slide show. I personally like my games running at 60fps and not 9fps like LAIR