PS3 Power "Infinite" vs "Limited"

The PS3's much vaunted Cell processor has been trumpeted as having "bottomless" capabilities by top PS3 developer Naughty Dog, although it seems not all developers are inclined to agree, with Hideo Kojima on the other hand maintaining that his magnum opus stretched the machine to its limits.
Uncharted developers Naughty Dog (who happen to be Sony owned) maintain they can happily develop on the PS3 for another 6 years:

On the other hand, Metal Gear creator Hideo Kojima famously explained that he was "disappointed" with the PS3 and that MGS already stretched the Cell processor to its limits:

[nogolis]

While I'm sure the Ps3 isn't tapped for power, Uncharted says hello, I'm sure it's getting closeer than we probably want it to. But if I could reiterate on one thing it'd be MGS4 and Kojima. Talented as all get out guy, but face it; MGS4 is a last gen game with 1st gen Ps3 graphics. The controls are stiff and awkward still. It takes 3 button presses to lay prone on your gut and this is a stealth game. A game where quickness is what counts.

Uncharted 2's stealth segments eclipse MGS4's in every way possible. Graphically the games don't even compete, with Uncharted 2 taking the lead by a huge margin. So, while Kojima made another installment of the tired MGS franchise for the Ps3, exclusive no less, he didn't break any walls down. IT's the same game that was made on PS1 with a better lighting system and more detail in the character models.

Sad but true.

[Kevin ButIer]

We can send you some ND developers to help you in MGS5...

After playing Uncharted 2... I can asure you that MGS4 didnt max out the PS3.

<3

[nogolis]

Ain't that the truth. Looking at Uncharted and playing it makes MGS4 seem stale in everyway. Like, how was this even a contender for Game of the year, ya know? I'm not saying Kojima isn't talented, he is. He just didn't make the revolutionary game everyone says he did. The graphics are good, they're passable, but they're not great. The textures are flat and murky. Washed out even. The controls are stiff and disjointed. As I said, it takes 3 button presses to lay prone. You have to hit square, to kneel and then hit it again to go prone. When you should be able to go prone by walking and hitting square. The movements and animations in MGS4 are awkward aswell. He doesn't jump so that makes it absurd from the get go, but he should atleast auto jump when faced with it.

There is no interaction with the settings past hidning in a box or a can, either. When you look at MGS4 it is dated and anyone who says otherwise is blinded by Kojima love. He's a cool guy and a talented one for sure, but his team has proven, if he maxed out the PS3 with his one attempt, that he spends his resources foolishly and didn't optimize it well enough.

[ape007]

in gfx and as a game,mgs 4 is a must buy don't get me wrong but the cutscene,gameplay and loading Ratio is broken+those damn installs

the pacing in uncharted 2 is simply stunning

uncharted 2 is the ps3 definitive killer app

[RememberThe357]

But graphically I agree with Mr. BOOM up there at 1.1 in that Uncharted 2 is so visually amazing it proves that MSG4 may have used the PS3 to the max but that it is in need of some serious code optimization.

If that is the best that Kojima Productions can get out of the PS3 while maxing it out, then Japan really has fallen behind the rest of the world in game development.

Honestly, I don't think that is the case at all, and I'm sure Kojima Productions next game will look even better then the master peice that is MGS4.

[Megaton]

Even the original Uncharted blew away MGS4 in some areas, especially environment. I think the only way MGS4 topped it was in character design, but then UC2 blew MGS4's character graphics outta the water.

As big of an MGS fan as I may be, that game was a technical disaster. It contains both the most load times, and the most installs of any game this generation, by a very large margin. Both of the Uncharted games are visual masterpieces with no installs, and practically zero loading.

[randomwiz]

this article is lame... seems like its trying to get people to hate kojima

Kojima DID say that, but after that he also goes on to say after you have used the hardware, to make a game better on the same platform, you have to optimize your software

Which in essence is the same thing Naughty Dog is saying. ND is saying we maxed it out with unoptimized code, and kojima is saying we maxed it out, now i have to go and optimize the code

[SilentNegotiator]

MGS4 wasn't even the best looking or technical-oriented game on the PS3 when it released...

[cmrbe]

The thing is though U1 mostly was based on a tropical island while MGS4 was based in very extremely different environments.

I still maintain that the snow in MGS4 is better than U2. Water by far is better in U2 though. Gone are the white cloud splashes in U1 and we have volumetric splashes in U2.

There is no middle eastern level in Uncharted 1 or 2 but i think MGS4 still has the best one in any game.

What i notice in U2 is that with more varied environemnts there was much less details as there was in the jungle environments which was prevelant in U1. Like the mossy rocks and wet walls were much better in U1.

I agree with you though with regards to MGS4 installs.

I guess i just like the more gritty and realistic art direction in games like MGS4 and KZ2 in particualr. With both uncharted they have the best ever textures but in the end they still look cartoony compare to MGS4 and KZ2.

[cyberwaffles]

don't care what any of you say, MGS4 > UC2

MGS4 still looks amazing aside from some occasional framerate drops and the bland backgrounds. you can't tell me Act 3 or 4, the one with you driving with Big Mama, looked bad or the split screen segment where in one screen you're fighting the Geckos and Raiden is fighting Vamp in the second. yes, UC2 still have better graphics, but MGS4 was KP's first PS3 game and i'm sure as hell MGSR will have vast improvements over MGS4's engine, and even more so when Hideo Kojima makes another PS3 exclusive (whenever that will be.)

i will admit that UC2 had smoother controls, but it's more of a run n gun kind of game if you think about it. i wish MGS4 had better aiming and firing mechanics, but there are so many different things and customizations options available for use which makes it more addicting to me personally.

UC2 holds the graphics king for now, but i still think MGS4 is the best game this gen.

[hay]

@randomwiz: You're the only sane person among the sheeps. Have a bubble.

It was first Kojima's game on PS3. It's like first Uncharted for ND. Also please note that ND used prerendered in-engine cutscenes here and there which covered loadings while MGS4 was fully real time hence the loading screens.

This article is BS since Kojima Productions have stated that Rising will push the bar higher than MGS4.

There's still a lot of potential to be tapped.

And wasn't Kojima himself clarifying that it was mistranslation?

[darthv72]

with ND showing up kojima what the ps3 can do...it will make kojima think about releasing mgs4 on the 360 after all.

Just wishing...I don't mind sloppy seconds when it comes to mgs4.

[Kevin ButIer]

Both are great must play boom PS3 exclusives... And I love em

[DavidMacDougall]

What are you lot taking about? You do know there are boobies on this site right?

[Domenikos]

jizz in my pants XD

[Mamotronn]

nice one, but fail.

[Hellsvacancy]

Im happy enough playin Pixel Junk Shooter and Gravity Crash at the mo - retro graphics 4 the win!!!

[DaTruth]

He also said the Universe doesn't have enough space for the game he wanted to make when asked about 50 gig Bluray.

Lets not read too much into his one liners!

The dude is disappointed in the Universe for its small size!

[sikbeta]

MGS4 is an Amazing Game and Graphically Awesome too, but the game didn't maxed out the PS3, we're witness of that

This is only related to Optimizing the Engine rather than talking about games that maxed out the Hardware, whatever is the Engine used in MGS4 can be tweaked to take more advantage of the Hardware and by that surpassing MGS4

[CHAD ROGERS]

The mighty PS3 will never be tapped for power. FUTURE PROOF.
The proof is UNCHARTED 2 with it's mind blowing graphics.It is the best looking game ever, and it is only possible on the PS3. The only games that matter are PS3 exclusives.Everything else just pales in comparison. I can see playing my PS3 in 20 years. Yes it is that powerful.The PS3 is cake.

[xabmol]

"It takes 3 button presses to lay prone on your gut"

I'm sorry, but you just showed me that anything you say about MGS4 should not be taken seriously by anyone.

First off; It only takes two. Stand 1press-> Crouch 2press-> Prone

Second; You can simply hold the button down for a split second to go from standing straight to prone quickly.

[nogolis]

Only two? And 1 second to lay pron holding it in? WOW! How intuative. My previous post saying 3 was sarcasm as I displayed the proper way of laying prone quickly afterwards. LEarn to read.

MGS is a stiff series with stiff controls and awkward ones at that. It's not fluid. It's bland and boring. MGS4 was a headache to tinker with and anyone who's played it knows it. Right down to the painful install of 5 gb.

[xabmol]

Among the best in the TPS genre. So QFT.

And did you just call something about MGS4 bland and boring? xD

I'd like to know what you consider vibrant and exiting.

"As I said, it takes 3 button presses to lay prone. You have to hit square, to kneel and then hit it again to go prone. When you should be able to go prone by walking and hitting square."

"Only two? And 1 second to lay pron holding it in? WOW! How intuative. My previous post saying 3 was sarcasm as I displayed the proper way of laying prone quickly afterwards. LEarn to read."

Huh? This is your only other post. I detect nether sarcasm or a correcting statement. "LEarn" to type. Also it is the X button. Or is that more of what you call sarcasm?

Oh, and lol @ "painful install of 5 gb"

@Below:

"the controls haven't changed in MGS since the PSX days and that's about the gist of it."

LOL MY A OFF!! xD

This is where I realize that talking to you is pointless and simply walk away. LOL

Oh wait!! just so EVERYONE HERE has a second cance to READ THIS. You said,

"Mercs 2 was better than MGS4"

...which I find (whether you're talking controls or overall game) frikin hilarious. xDDDD

[nogolis]

Yes, painful install. You sit there watching him smoke. How exciting!! Listen, the controls haven't changed in MGS since the PSX days and that's about the gist of it. They might've added a couple things but we're still laying around in boxes and hittin' (2) buttons to lay prone. The game is stiff and it's poorly animated. They all walk around like they have puppet sticks up their A$$'es, man. Get real. And they hold their guns at absurd angles. Nobody holds guns at 45 degree angles. They all look like they have broken wrist when they hold their guns. Lame.

As for better, I already told you which was better Uncharted is. Splinter Cell is better than MGS, if you ask me. Mercs 2 was better than MGS4, if you ask me. It was more fun anyways. It didn't ask you to hit fifty buttons for 1 action or make you tweak and tinker with absurd gun upgrades every two seconds or ask you to store cammo in inventory slots. Lame as hell. The more I think about it the more MGS4 just grates my nerves. Need I go on?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Hey Silogon.

[solideagle1]

i have read all the interviews of Mr. Kojima this is taken out of context he said that his expectations was too high when PS3 specs were announced.....he even said that he thought we can fly with it. the thing is it is taken out of context.

thanks for reading

[shadow2797]

"Only two? And 1 second to lay pron holding it in? WOW! How intuative. My previous post saying 3 was sarcasm as I displayed the proper way of laying prone quickly afterwards. LEarn to read."

So now holding down a button is inconvenient? I'm sorry, nogolis, but you don't have a clue. And perhaps before you insult someone's reading skills, you might want to check your writing skills. Just sayin'.

If MGS's prone system sucks so much, why has it been adopted by so many other games? You know, such as the Call of Duty series?

Some people like to crouch walk, which you do with one simple button press.

Or, if you're running, you can hold down the button and roll into the prone position. Still one button press.

Did MGS4 max out the PS3? No. Is MGS4 a great game? Absolutely.

[rockleex]

MGS4's last few final chapters looked AMAZING.

Do any of you remember the final boss fight? Exactly.

Second of all, Kojima was NOT disappointed with the PS3.

He actually said that he was disappointed with HIMSELF for his impossible expectations of what the PS3 would be able to do.

N4G... where everything you say gets taken out of context. ^_^

[kraze07]

I'm sorry for saying this, but MGS4>UC2. I hate when I have to stoop to a fanboy's level but if you think UC2 is that much better than MGS4 or any game out on the market then boy are you wrong. Personally I enjoy playing both games, but if I had to choose one over the other it would be MGS4.

[RumbleFish]

It's not true that you have to push 3 buttons to prone in MSG 4. If you insist in that, it's absolutely impossible, that you know the game.

Believe me, i played the game 12 times, have obtained all titles and still enjoy playing the best shooter this gen including the best 3rd person shooter MGO.

There is no competition for this deep gaming experience.

And I am pretty shure, ND have really worked hard to learn the tricks neccessary to get this performance out of U2. Have you ever tried to force U2 to be output in 1080p? Do that! The game looks really strange in 1080p. Do you really blame Kojima for not having worked out such tricks two years before U2 came out? Remember the tearing and inconsistent framerate of Uncharted 1?

Kojima gave us one of the best games this gen and grafically it's still among the best 3 games on PS3. When he's complaining about the limits of the console it's because he is a perfectionist and he will never be satisfied with the finished product.

U2 is a beautiful game, I prefer MGS 4 but that's just my taste. But nogolis, I think you just want to bash, no matter what!

[Consoldtobots]

hey who cares as long as MGS4360 is coming.......lol /s

[Guido]

And each engine uses the power of the Cell in different ways so while one might say that the engine running Uncharted can be made even better over the next 6 years, it is possible that the engine running MGS4 was a power hog and a resource hog and might not be able to be as optimized as well as the Uncharted engine.

[solidt12]

To be fair you have to realize that Kojima Maxed the system out based on the technology that was available at that time. MGS4 is still one of the best looking games on the PS3 and the Controls are the best yet of a MGS games so you lost me there.

[creatchee]

To call MGS4 the same game as its PS1 counterpart with better lighting and character models is delusional and asinine.

I think that Kojima was frustrated because he was working on MGS4 when the PS3 was still kinda alien to develop for. Obviously now, it has become easier (even if still complicated) to produce great results. If he started MGS4 development NOW instead of '05 or '06, we'd see better graphics, better effects, more smoothness, and probably a lot of other things that he didn't even imagine possible back when he was making the game.

[edgeofblade]

This is the same as the faulty Blu-ray argument.

I can code a very simple program that stresses any computer to its breaking point. Same way a Blu-ray disk can get loaded with a single 50 Gb texture and be filled, thereby "proving" DVD9 isn't big enough. All these arguments about superiority are being peddled by certain unscrupulous individuals that have no interest in getting an unbiased... or even rational perspective. And worse: they are intent on spreading their infection to others.

[MazzingerZ]

1-They are using something Kojima said he thought about the PS3 back in 2004-2005 when he finally got the specifications of the machine and realised that game he wanted to make wasn't possible... he had heard even higher specification and rumors so he stared dreaming...maybe he can make that game on the PS4

But people can't forget that Kojima Productions took the PS3 HW and showed everybody of what it was capable of, they delivered the game that shut many mouths, as a 3rd party dev they didn't get the same support as GG or Insomiac or ND do today between them...they on their own delivered an amazing game that it's still today one of the top ranked this gen.

They pushed the CELL to the limit as they knew it then.

2- Naughty Dog itself said that they had maxed out the PS3 and now some months after that its power is "infinite" ?

3- MSG4 looks better that anything released before it and even after (incl. Gears 2), the production values are amazing, extremely polished, the game has yet to be patched. MGS4 is better than U2, U2 is a Transformers movie while MGS4 is a Godfather 2.

4- Killzone 2 looks better than U2, more detailed, better physics, realisitic visuals, objects feels organic rather than pretty.

5- Wait to see GOW3, GT5, Heavy Rain, FF XIII VS, Last Guardian

5. All games are on PS3 so what's the big deal?

[MetalGearRising]

Hideo Kojima famously explained that he was "disappointed" with the PS3 and that MGS already stretched the Cell processor to its limits: That's why Kojima has moved over to xbox360 by working on Next Gen Motion Controller (Natal) and show the world what xbox360 is capable off also Metal Gear Rising is another game which will prove the xbox360 has what it takes and will no doubt look a million times better than MGS4.

[tdrules]

lul you think kojima is working on it.
bless.

[Nitrowolf2]

Kojima has said he isn't on MGSR didn't he say last week or something that since he has been working on peace walker he wants to move back to the ps3???

[abc1233]

an xbox fanboy whose IQ is the same as his shoesize, what else is new?

[LtSkittles]

All you have to do is show him this video.

[Foliage]

He must have really small feet.

XD

[Fishy Fingers]

Shoes? Surely they've all been used to beat out the flames?

Sorry I wanted to get in on the fun :)

[DatNJDom81]

are you on fcuking crack? no really is this guy serious?

[RememberThe357]

Sure buddy... Lets all conveniently forget that Metal Gear: Rising is multiplatform... It's funny how the 360 needs a multiplatform game to "prove the xbox360 has what it takes".

Even if the 360 got a game that looked as good as Uncharted 2, Sony would just release a game that looked even better.

And as for the Cell, here is a link to that: http://www.sankakucomplex.c... thanks to Wildarmsjecht for finding that.

@DatNJDom81: I don't think so, no one could be that much of a douche and be serious.

[Oner]

Actually he is 100% serious....ain't that some sad $#@!

[presto717]

ownage by Foliage.

Bubbles.

[xabmol]

No...

This is just one of Why dis' many alt accounts.

[RumbleFish]

Some people did not realise that Kojima was bashing the 360 in any way and that he still does not work on Rising. Have you ever thought off Konami forcing Kojima to produce a multiplat?

So I don't think Kojima prefers working with Natal and the 360.

[Consoldtobots]

need anymore proof that the 360 is getting a metal gear spin-off?

listen to the muted almost non-existent applause after he announces raiden instead of snake as the character in the game.

PWNED.

[mfwahwah]

@2

[Citation Needed]

[Wildarmsjecht]

I remember Hideo stating that Edge took his words out of context/ mistranslated his words and humbleness. In fact, they state this even more if you go further into the article (which I bet certain individuals will not bother to do)

"and claims it was in fact a mistranslation; his humble and self abasing Japanese was distorted through translation and cultural misinterpretation, as well as shameless media exaggeration in pursuit of page views, and so he was grievously misquoted."

http://www.sankakucomplex.c...

But you know, it doesn't matter. N4G isn't about reading articles. It's about reading headlines and short descriptions.

[Fishy Fingers]

Bingo!

[cmrbe]

i still like MGS4 better. Graphically MGS4 is better in most areas. The snow in MGS4 is much better than in U2 for example.

Both are excellent games but if i had to pick 1 it will be MGS4 without a doubt. Not that it matter to PS3 fans as they get to play both Exclusively.

What Kojima meant was that they maxed out the PS3 at that given time. Everyone knows this. What people must also understand is that Kijoma like Kaz have standards way beyond what others have. Their vision of their games could only be realise on next gen consoles.

[RememberThe357]

but Uncharted 2 looks much better. However, Kojima Productions did such a great job polishing MGS4 it's still one of the best looking games this gen.

[DaTruth]

Too close to call. Really, if someone asked me, I couldn't tell them which game I prefer!

[roguewarrior]

Its unfair to compare a first and 2nd Gen. game. If Kojimasan Develops another PS3 Exclusive, I'm sure it will show the same leap as Naughty Dogs Engine. I do like U2s online multi-player better.

[kraze07]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Homicide]

Uncharted 2 puts MGS4 to shame. Uncharted 2 actually delivers a true cinematic experience, while MGS4 is just a movie with gameplay here and there.

[shazui123]

okay dont take it too far. MGS4 was amazing. In every way. Im sorry but even ND could take notes from Kojima on storytelling. True UC2's overall graphics are better, but MGS4's character models, set-pieces and method of storytelling through gameplay and interactive cutscenes are second to none.

[TooTall19]

UC2 is the definition of linear and you had barely any control during platforming segments (Similar to the latest Prince of Persia). MGS4 is better than UC2 in every way. That being said the PS3 has not been stretched to it's limits yet. GG, ND, PD, and Santa Monica Studios will continue to push the limits of the PS3 further.

[cmrbe]

Don't worry. In a few years time you will finally understand MGS complex story as well as realising that MGS4 is ahead of its time which others have started and will continue to follow.

In terms of movies

U2 i will compare to a great action adventure summer blockbuster movie

but

MGS4 is an epic spy/thriller action drama movie.

Kojima is the first dev that brought cinamatic expereince to gaming. In particular with MGS4 we are starting to see more cinamatic games that are starting to rival hollyowood movies in terms of action set pices and writing. U2 and MWF2 as example.

U2 in particular is much different from U1 in terms of cinamatics and most i have seen borrowed from MGS4. it is obvious that MGS4 played a huge role in U2. The only difference is the writing and editing is better in U2 mostly because its a straight forward non complex story unlike MGS4.

With Kojima and with his MGS series. Gone are the days where you only have 1 dimensional shallow characters only there to kill bad guys. Gone are the days when you have cutscenes to only point to you where you are in the game. Kijoma completely changed that. You should be thankful for that.

[vickers500]

"but MGS4's character models, set-pieces and method of storytelling through gameplay and interactive cutscenes are second to none"

Character models maybe, that one is debatable. Set pieces, hellllll noooo. Uncharted 2 had kinetic set pieces that were full of life. MGS4 had bland, dull, and boring set pieces that were just there. They didn't really do anything. Storytelling yeah, but even MGS4's story was full of cliches and predictability (though the ending surprised me, it was a cheap surprise, kind of like an M. Night Shyamalan movie). Uncharted 2 was straight forward and didn't pretend to be an intelligent game.

It was an in your face "I'm a kickass action movie game, mother f*cker". Metal Gear Solid 4 was preachy and pretentious. Blah blah private military corporations, moral moral, bore bore. Uncharted 2 was just the better game all around.

[Rocket Sauce]

I don't see how anybody could say MGS4 was a better game than Uncharted 2, even if you happen to prefer Metal Gear. Uncharted just stomped it with smoother gameplay, better graphics and animations, MUCH better writing and acting...no BS constant installing.

Complex doesn't equal good. I don't wanna hear some guy ramble for 20 minutes about zero becoming 50, becoming 100, divided by 2, multiplied by pi, carry the 3, blah blah blah. Just make with the ninjas and robots if you don't have anything profound to say.

[abc1233]

@3.2: when all else fails, resort to the linear comment. just gtfo.

MGS4 and UC2 are both amazing PS3 exlcusives which all ps3 owners can enjoy so stop with the senseless bashing.

[mfwahwah]

I strongly disagree.

I have patience to watch a long cut scene without going online and whining about how I just wanted to shoot people instead. It's MGS; get used to it.

Also: You have never done or will do anything in your life that receives as much praise and critical / personal acclaim as Metal Gear Solid 4 (let alone the franchise as a whole). With that in mind, I'll humbly laugh at your opinion.

[RedDragan]

While Kojima's game may have maxed out the hardware, the coding did not.

Kojima can do better next time by improving the code, as developers like Naughty Dog have gone beyond what MGS4 achieved despite MGS4 maxing out the hardware.

There is still a long way to go... I wonder if Kojima will be left to rue his comments when GT5 comes out. I know we have yet to see the game but I am sure GT5 will be flagship for graphics when it is released.

EDIT: LOL... somebody who disagreed thinks MGS4 will look better than GT5!!! LMFAO... atleast reply so others can let you know what they think!

[RedDragan]

Lol... some MGS fanboy thinks GT5 will not look better!!

Oh my god... go away already!

[GVON]

exactly.Nd said 100% and people thought they meant it had nothing left,but from their description of 100% meant the Cpu was never idol.
So now the real fun begins as they start looking how they can seriously push the system.

[Nitrowolf2]

i didn't disagree nor agree
graphics for GT5 and MGS4 will be different
i'm not much of a smart guy for this kind of stuff but aren't they different type of games? Stealth=/= racing
And because they are way different wouldn't the graphics be allot different then?
i'm not sure but i would expect that they would, and plus its cars and your not running around with the car trying to sneak all over the field, the car is stuck to the tracks, so i would expect it to be easier to make the graphics more better then it would be for a game where you can touch pretty much every corner of the field your on

[RedDragan]

Not really wolf.

It doesn't work like that mate. Some people and sites will try and prove that graphics cannot be compared on different genre's, but the reality is that all video games can be compared graphically.

Graphic fidelity is the same no matter what kind of game you are comparing. You can get a FPS, Sport, Racer and JRPG and one of them will be graphically superior to the others. One will have more polygons and run at higher res with a higher framerate etc.

So although MGS4 may have maxed out the Cell and GPU, the coding was by no means 100% efficient and a game like GT5 will show how a more efficient coding structure will achieve better results of graphic fidelity than MGS4.

One day, there will probably be a PS3 game better than GT5 and so forth. The PS2 showed that cycle, and the 360 is showing it right. Compare Gears of War 3 with eariler titles of any genre... Gears wins hands down over 360 game of any genre in the graphics department. It rivals the majority of PS3 exclusives as well, they are doing a great job with the coding on that game.

EDIT: I expect a few disagrees because I support a 360 game there lol...

[DaTruth]

Do you have any idea how taxing an explosion is on hardware? GT5 has very few physics interactions when compared to MGS4 and related games. AI cars have nothing on AI soldiers and characters have far more animations than cars! The computer has to track thousands of bullets, pieces of bottles and even a pen1s from the statue will roll around on the floor.

There is absolutely no comparing the two games. FPS and TPS can compare.

[RedDragan]

Are you seriously saying that MGS4 is going to have better graphics than GT5?

GTFO kid. You know nothing about games, all games are comparable in terms of graphics.

[Nitrowolf2]

no but he is right about the animation, there is far more going on in mGS then there is in a simple racing game. i'm not saying GT5 is simple to make, but hostly he is right about bullets and p3nis rolling,
Thats why i can't compare the 2 together in terms of graphics.
Even uncharted 2, Uncharted 2 looks better then MGS4, but can't compare them to racing sim.

[Treyb3yond]

MGS4=early PS3 game.

UC2=better graphics than MGS4.

Kojima obviously didn't know how to get his programmers to get more out of the system at that early stage.

[Unicron]

First party. Third party. Western. Eastern.

Different teams, different design philosophies, different genres, different knowledge base.

"Tapping a system," be it 360, PS3, Wii, whatever... is just conjecture. You did the best with what you had AT THE TIME. Well, development knowledge presses forward people. This is not a stagnant industry. You learn new tricks.

My biggest beef with MGS4 is the lack of Trophies and the fact that I can't just install the whole thing. Installs suck. Still my GOTY 2008 and a great ending to a great series.

[spongeboob]

Talk about taking what he said out of context, please go back to school and learn simple verbal comprehension. and what the hell kind of name is "sankakucomplex" sounds like a Japanese coffee company.

[xcox]

yeah, sounds like a 40 yo virgin bot blogging from his mum basement, lmao

"infinite"? yeah, by comparison to the 360

there's no more discussion needed on that subject:
pick your best 360 exclusive of choice

vs

uncharted 2

end of story!

[MetalGearRising]

Obviously i can't talk about ps3 because its not my favorite console and never will be. On the other hand i know xbox360 has not been MAXED OUT games like Alan Wake, Mass Effect 2 also Halo Reach are only the beginning as u will see leaps which xbox360 will make in graphics which other consoles on the market will struggle to compete with.

[divideby0]

sure with a blind attitude as you post...of course it will never be..
I own all the consoles and I am looking forward to games on all of them.
UC2 totally ownz any of my 360 games and Reach and ME will be lucky to hit the mark with UC2...
so PS3 comes out later than the 360 and ALREADY HAS LEAPFROGGED IT...
so while 360 is playing catch up, PS3 is going ahead..
Games show the facts...gamers distort them

[Dev8 ing]

^^^ Actually the 360 hasn't even surpassed the first uncharted's graphics let alone MGS4, UC2 and Killzone 2. It is funny how all the games listed as an example of how the console hasn't been maxed haven't come out yet and most of the previews don't show game play.

[Oner]

@ divideby0 "Games show the facts...gamers distort them" ~ Excellent quote. I'm gonna have to borrow that!

[cereal_killa]

Obviously I can't talk about ps3 because I don't own one and my mommy wouldn't buy me one for Christmas so I had to come back to bash everything PS3 related due to pure jealousy. Fixed

[DaTruth]

It use to be Lost Planet 2 that would show the incredible untapped power of the 360. Then the demo was released and no one has mentioned it since!

[iceman06]

Okay...are you trying to play the How Many Points Does It Take To Get To The Center Of A Failure game!?!? Alan Wake...looks good...probably should look better since it is no longer "open world". ME2 represents a graphical step from it's predecessor...but not a HUGE leap as you are implying. Halo Reach...umm...gameplay please??? What Halo has reached the graphical level of those CG trailers that get released as teasers? Not one yet! This is not BASHING anything 360, mind you. All 3 games should probably look and play GREAT...but to say that OTHER consoles will be struggling to play catch up...well...I think 4 points is enough to get to the center of a failure!!!

[bjornbear]

WHAT?

*reads article title*

I don't see where you are coming from =P wrong article buddy boy.

[ApexHell]

looks like kojima needs some help coding the games to figure out he only hit a wall and naughty dog found a way around it :P

[cranium]

UC2 came out over a year after MGS4. Let's see how UC2 compares if Kojima were to release a new game a year from now.

[bjornbear]

you know your stuff ehe =P

he's got the hardware, just not the nifty short cut =O ND beat him to it xD

[divideby0]

this dude knows his stuff...I just think he said something he now realizes he wish he didnt say.
he wants to sell games for all systems, so he is walking the line, vs saying what I believe is the truth

[happy_gilmore]

heck, mgs4 is the best looking game this gen so far. plus it has a lot of amazing boss fights. man, might play it again before the wkc -> heavy rain -> ffx13 -> GoW3 -> Yakuza 3 -> GT5 train

yeah, kz2 looks fine, too. but mgs4 looks gets points for the varying environments - desert, jungle, snow, and urban. kz2 only had dark and radec.

i was thinking about playing that game again this morning. my only prob with kz2 is the frame rate in MP.

[Dev8 ing]

No killzone 2 is. But GT5 is going to kill them all.

[ssipmraw]

ehh uncharted/2, killzone 2 might look better but i still love mgs4 the most this gen

[cmrbe]

We are getting to the point where we are debating which PS3 game looks better because there is nothing on the x360 that can compete.

I'll say KZ2 because it managed to look like the E305 trailer.

[Guitardr85]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kojima insist that he was disappointed with the game he made rather than the hardware. I seem to remember how in hindsight he wanted to do things differently. If I'm right, then this is a gross contextual error on the part of this author!!!

[Dev8 ing]

The very least that can be learned by Kojima from ND is how to make a game with no installs/ loading screens. Both games are pretty sweet though and must haves for any gamer. Both are in the top 5 games for this console cycle.

[Bathyj]

People who complain about load times obviously never had a Commodore 64 and tape deck.

Had to leave the damn room sometimes to get that thing to play nice. Not even sure how we worked that out, but it helped.

[Agent Smith]

.

[Whitefox789]

Well the PS3 was always affiliated with the Dark Side.

[Red Eyed Gamer]

@nogolis Honestly you ever played mgs4?

[Bathyj]

Why are we even arguing?

PS3 isnt maxed out. It was just the best Hideo could do for his first game at the time, with the time allowed. Remember so many titles coming out are still first wave games on PS3. Look at the improvment ND made by their second game.

The idea a machine as powerful and complex as PS3 being maxed out in 3 years is laughable. Hahahahaha. See? Alot of people thought PS2 hit its peak early too, but didnt God of War come out in its 6 or 7th year?

Those who think we've seen the best already are in for a pleasant surprise, or nasty, if they happen to be haters.

And I even predict PS3 games will improve more when M$ drops 360 and goes to XB3. New techniques and no more pandering to the lowest common denominator will ensure this.

[SpartanZero]

http://www.gamespot.com/pag...
MGS4 best looking game this gen lol

[The Iron Sheik]

You link to Gamestop system wars? For what? To prove there are more people every bit as ignorant as you?

Epic fail dude.

[jalen247]

I doubt it that Kojima Productions was maximizing the PS3 off just 1 game. When more talented developers weren't i.e. Naughty Dog. People need to understand that no one knows Sony hardware better than Sony's own developers even though Kojima Productions is similar to Insomniac in preferring playstation consoles.

[emk2004]

i do think that certain developers are out of imaginative ideas to get more out of the systems. there is always room for optimization to get more out of games. look at both me2 and sc conviction they both blow gears2 out of the water graphically. and uc2 is has more happening on screen with better graphics than mgs4.

[SnukaTheMan]

Good to see the most ridiculous of both camps are slowly getting banned or losing bubbles. Commenting on the story I think both consoles have a way to go to be "maxxed" out..Ridiculous arguments on both sides show the idiocy of many.

[Ninji]

PS3 power infinite, 360 is limited

[CARRIERHASARRIVED]

I WATCHED my friend play all the way through MGS4 and the most memorable moments (graphically) was the part where Sunny (I think that's her name) is making eggs... I dunno, but I thought looked too good to be true. I know it sounds silly, but really. That part looked absolutely amazing to me, graphically speaking!

[Figboy]

graphically stunning game because of Uncharted 2?

don't get me wrong, i think Uncharted 2 is in the running for the best looking game this generation thus far (along with Killzone 2), but i don't think people have played MGS4 recently.

yes, the game is old, but it's far from dated.

outside of Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2, there isn't a single game released on any console, let alone the PS3, that comes knee high to the visual presentation of MGS4.

the game looks amazing, even to this day.

at the time MGS4 hit, that was the best of the best in terms of PS3 coding. you can't fault Kojima Productions for not being able to compete with a game that, was not only unreleased (by a good year and a half), but not even ANNOUNCED YET.

MGS4 was the first game that made people take the PS3 seriously as a graphical powerhouse, just like MGS2 was the first game to make people take the PS2 seriously as a graphical powerhouse, especially after the first year of average-looking PS2 games that didn't look as good as the Dreamcast games released at the same time(sound familiar?).

maybe it's because i grew up during the 80's, and saw games evolve from Pitfall to Uncharted 2, and i can look at a game like MGS4 and marvel that i'm actually controlling something that looks that amazing.

and don't even start comparing the game play. one of them is a stealth action game, the other is a pulp action/adventure game. anyone wanting MGS4 to control like Uncharted 1 and 2 is being foolish.

the controls in MGS4 are GREAT. the controls in UC1 and 2 are GREAT.

man, now PS3 games are being used to hate on other PS3 games. i guess the console finally has arrived, eh?

[theunknown]

Dude, you are my hero.

[Ps_alm3k]

Let me remind you guys that these are Ps3 exclusives, are we at civil war with our own kind?
what happen to the xbox 360 in all of this?

[Whitefox789]

Sir! Apparently there was a compromise in our intelligence department and some information was leaked. Ohh and there was a lack of pizza and chairs...

[Whitefox789]

I'm just going to say one thing both Uncharted 2 and MGS 4 are really good games but nothing is perfect. For the people complaining about MGS 4's controls get some ambidexterity cause I can play the game no problem at all.

[CryWolf]

When Hideo Kojima started on MGS4 it was to early for the PS3 at that time point their were some limitations not a lot at lease what I been hearing from other web sites, when Sony pulled out those firmware updates the limitaitons started to disappear you'll notices when you play KillZone 2, Uncharted 2 and other games, see how the graphics are Amazing and Next-Gen Visuals/Rendering this truly is the full power of the Cell processor engin without limitations with awesomeness graphics.

[DaTruth]

Uncharted 2 has more RAM available to the devs than MGS4 had at the time. The OS was pretty bloated back then. Also, Naughty Dog had a lot of other devs work to build upon. Guerrilla, Sony Santa Monica, and Insomniac all kicked around ideas with them! They also had a ready made engine to play around with and optimize.

It would be better to compare UC1 and MGS4!

[CryWolf]

The bots don't have any games that are superior to MGS4, Uncharted, Uncharted 2, KillZone 2 with all of these games the graphical visuals was real Next-Gen also its innovative the gaming industrial and made Metal Gear Solid 4 graphics and gameplay are innovate and todays Standard for Next-Gen gaming for PlayStation 3.

[SlxTeN]

@ 1.14 It should be "Uncharted Solid Gear: Ocelot Hidden Legacy" :P

[NiiGhTx]

You gotta remember that MGS4 was compressed, 50GB wasn't enough for Hideo. ( Goddam what a beast)

And the game still looks amazing

[bjornbear]

guys, they are both AMAZING!!! One is older, and less optimized.

Maybe Koji can now learn with ND =)!!

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

That 50GB was filled quickly because there's so much audio in the dam game, the textures on the scenery looked average and the overall look of the game was crappy looking.

The story's great but the graphics were over-hyped and I'm sorry to say but compared to Uncharted 2 and KZ2 it looks like PS2 game.

[djfullshred]

I am wondering when the shift in thinking was that game consoles were ever intended to have limitless power for multiples years. No, they are the antithesis of PC gaming, where there is an endless arms race between software makers trying to max out the newest GPU. Isn't the goal for software makers for game consoles always been about clever ways to use whatever limited hardware they have to work with, but still make great games? When I hear of software people whine about console hardware, I can't help wondering where their heads are on that. The hardware is what it is before you make the game. It isn't changing. If you want to always have more hardware to work with every few years, then stick to making games for PCs with the fastest processors & 600 dollar video cards.

[Mikey Mike]

but a game........ I do not remember playing Metal Gear 4 that much, but I do recall many long cutscenes rather well.

[djfullshred]

haha, I just remember dinner. Because those cutscenes would start, I would get bored, go make dinner, eat, come back...and the damn scene was still playing!

[ThdeGreatestOne]

Wow, if Hideo Kojima really did stretch out the limits of the PS3, I wonder what he will think once he starts to fully develop for the Xbox 360, but at least that will not really happen right?

[Rowsdower]

fanboys of the same console fight each other before. That really sucks.

Its not about the games, its about your egos and your poop mouths.

poop.

[bunfighterii]

This article is comparing an opinion that Kojima held 2 years ago to one a Naughty Dog dev (who have just made the best looking console game ever made to date) holds today?

I'm sure Kojima's opinion would have changed already seeing the slew of titles that graphically/technically outdid MGS4 in '09. Games always get better looking/performing on any console, no matter what a dev says when their game comes out. Besides, Kojima stated he's going back to the PS3 after Peace Walker, I'm sure what he churns out will be more brilliant technically/graphically than MGS4.

[inbetweener]

For a bunch of Japanophiles, they sure hate on the ps3 a lot over at sankakucomplex.

[DaTruth]

Now it's wrong to debate which games are better? Isn't that just the type of thing we're here to discuss!

Gamer 1: I think Uncharted 2 is best, here's why...

Gamer 2: I think MGS4 is better, here's why...

Spectator 1: Argh, damn fanboys arguing!

Please, lets discuss which games we prefer, without the console it is on as the sole determining factor!

[ReBurn]

You're right, my friend. The console the game is on doesn't make any difference when it comes to how enjoyable a game is. I think it makes sense to discuss the merits of the games as opposed to the underlying hardware, because hardware alone doesn't make games enjoyable.

[theunknown]

What I don't understand is, unless it's PC, wouldn't a console game that came out a year later naturally look better?

I mean, I'm really not understanding the issue here. =/

[kraze07]

I've been thinking the same thing, but I guess some people just refuse to see that.

[TheTeam06]

I think MGS4 is still in the runnings for best looking game on any system. That, along with it's superb sound make it a true technical achievement.

The top 3 best looking games this generation would probably be MGS4, Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 hands down (in no particular order).

Although there are impressive looking games coming for both systems in 2010, I don't think any will surpass Gran Turismo 5... no folks, not even Heavy Rain. I don't think that would be fair, though. Polyphony are masters of their craft.

[Hanif-876]

I think Heavy Rain is the best looking game i've ever seen and i can't wait to play it but i just gotta say that Gran Turismo 5 cars look photo realistic but Heavy Rain overall graphic presentation is better

[DigitalAnalog]

I think it gives him hope that there is more to the PS3 then what he expected.

-End statement

[ReBurn]

Seems more to me like it's just Kojima's arrogance bubbling to the surface. He's a talented man, but he's not very humble. MGS4 is in my library, but I can say with certainty that it is not what I would consider the gold standard for games on the PS3.

[A LIVING LEGEND]

This mine is out of gold.Mine closes,people move on.
Years later;This mine has previously unknown gold resources.....different outfit buys and re-opens the previously 'tapped out' mine.People rethink and come back.
No miracle,no mistake,just progress.

[yeahright]

compared to Uncharted 2, so it's definitely not the most technically impressive or the prettiest looking game on the PS3.

Personally, I like KZ2's lighting (number of lights and how lights are used) a whole lot better than UC2. So KZ2 is the prettiest PS3 game in my eyes.

[Condemnedman]

Who really needs MGS ???? splinter cell overtook that ages ago ,come on as pretty as MGS was , it's a old game dressed with shiny clothes , which is fine if you love that but please let the rest of us get on with playing games and stop getting upset after all it's only a game.

[ReBurn]

The only thing that seems to be maxed is the creativity of developers who say that the current hardware is maxed. All of the current hardware, Wii included, is capable of producing fantastic experiences if the developers are inclined to create them. Look at Uncharted 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Heck, look at MW2. I'm not a fan of the game, but it is one of the cleanest and smoothest games I've seen in a while, and it runs on more than one platform.

I hope that nobody puts stock in this "hardware is maxed" business. What that really means is that the developers are out of ideas and would rather blame their tools than improve their capabilities.

[Blitzkid]

For me it's only a proof that ND has the better developers!

[Cueil]

there is so much fail in just the beginning of the artical that I just knew reading the responses would be twice as good. You people love to live in your own world and then you completely disrespect teh rules of the Zone you're in. I don't know if trash is particularly a word I would call most of you who throw lies and slander at someone and gang up on anyone who disagree's with you... Needless to say most of you couldn't write a text adventure game in Basic much less a game of the calibure that even Drakes 99 Dragons was.

[Ashriel]

Uncharted 2 was a better game.

[N4BmpS]

Had this have been 15/16 months ago I would have thought "yeah Kojima took the PS3 to it's limits." That is no longer the case since Uncharted 2, some people maybe getting tired of hearing about this Uncharted 2 business but it can't be helped. Uncharted 2 does so much right, even stealth. I wouldn't say the stealth is better than MGS4's, it's not but it is easier, especially to those who've never played a pure stealth mechanic(like myself)in a video game. Aside from that, Uncharted 2 was closer to taking the PS3 to it's limits Kojima is a genius but he even said he didn't completely understand the PS3 console.
I also wanna say, don't treat this as MGS4 vs U2AT, it's not that serious. Both games are fantastic on the PS3. Oh and btw @METALGERRISING no it won't look better than MGS4, it'll look nice though, I am sure of that.

[LoLZoRz]

i like those galleries on the side

[liquidus118]

Kojima can't get any more out of the PS3.
Naughty Dog know what they're doing and can get lots more out of it.
This says more about the developers than the PS3.