The Unfortunate Truth About Used Game Sales

PLAYSTATIONBLOG.NET delves into the recent used game dibacle and why used games sales, while unfortunate to developers, will never change.

[Gue1]

Man, don't you know that there's something called paragraphs? Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Read about it.
------------------
"After all, there are people all over who can and will buy a copy of Twisted Metal or God of War at a discounted price. Isnt that something good? Gamestop is helping to broaden the demographic of people who can buy YOUR titles. It is my dream to become as involved and as acclaimed as you in this industry Mr. Jaffe. It appears that you and I share different priorities however. If more people were able to play my games because retailers like Gamestop sold them for discounted prices, then great! I would die a happy man knowing that more people got to experince my product."
----------------

Do you actually know that you need something called money to make the games? And that money comes from the same games they sell = profit... And if people opt to buy used copies (to save what? 5 bucks? you trade in your $60 games, GS gives you like $20 for it and then they sell it for $55. LOL) none of that money goes to developers.

[Gue1]

Yeah, because a video game store would be doing so great without video games... Who wrote this? A retard?

There are always other alternatives like Best Buy, Sears, K-mart, Walmart or just buy them online. GameStop is ripping us off too not just the developers. They pay you in credit for the store (not real money) $20 dollars for a game that you bought for $60 plus tax. Gamestop gains twice the profit selling our used games than selling the new ones and nobody wins because used and new games are about the same in price. http://www.ebgames.com/brow...

[PREREQUiSiTE]

The fact of the matter is, once a game is sold, it is just that! It is a sold product! It is entirely within the discretion of the owner to do what they want with it. Games are expensive. You may think 5 dollars is miniscule but to some it gives them options. Especially in this economic climate. Aslo there are some games that have more than 5 dollar difference, although sure, theres not many. Not only that but it fuels competition. Gamestop does so well with used game sales that many have followed suit including best buy. And dont give me that "oh poor developer gets no money" crap. Thats absurd. They make tons of money off of new game sales. I admit it is terrible that devs dont see a penny and if you read the article you would see that the author recognizes that... Dont take it personally, but this is, as the author puts it: UNFORTUNATELY the only way things can operate currently. I too would love to see devs and pubs make more money so they can keep the games coming but if that means compromising the status of retailers like gamestop, then this industry would be in a bad position. Hes right though, there are plenty of devs pubs who agree with jaffe but wont drop support for gamestop. thats absolutely absurd. Jaffe may have these ideas but Sony (who publishes his games) would never ever ever leave gamestop. They need retailers.

[Xbox360Elite]

Probably a sony droid.

[PREREQUiSiTE]

He doesnt even mention PLaystation in that article once. Take a deep breathe dude... Finally an article that doesnt require you to defend your console of choice...

[Sunny_D]

Lol, this dude probably pirates games for his 3sh!tty!

[radzy]

jaffe , your games suck ,(besides GOW series)

calling all cars - wtf
twisted metal -wtf
i dont know what else you make .

les absolutely humiliated you in the debate.

[Xbox360Elite]

Is anyone else getting a bit sick of this person....David Jaffe seriously no one cares about him well i certainly don't also i'm looking forward to Dante's Inferno i heard its a great game and graphics too.

[shutupandplay]

PS3 fanboys enjoy romantic walks along the beach with David Jaffe.

[Unicron]

At least Jaffe knows how to wine and dine a fella... Cliffy B and Gates just bend you over and shove it up your ass on the first date, not even time for a Beta test!

No class any more, I tells ya!

[ZombieAutopsy]

so what time is your date tonight fellas....

you too bash a guy because he makes games only for playstation but if he made games for xbox you would prolly suck him off.

[ZOMBIEMAN1]

you 2 wish David Jaffe would make a game of GOW or Twisted Metal proportion on the 360 . David Jaffe made 2 of the most well know and beloved franchises on playstation and guess what both aren't shooters ( most beloved franchises on Xbox Halo & Gears both shooters ) fact is David Jaffe is one off the best game makers out with 2 huge game series under his belt and both are only playstation if he was making 360 games you'd be kissing his @ss just like you guys kiss Cliff & Bungie's @ss . i got 2 words for ya 360 freaks , SUCK IT !!!

[Sonyfanclubpresident]

One word for you ya silly little 3rd place N4G Gaystation pr1ck......................... ...........pwned.

[ZOMBIEMAN1]

i got 2 words for ya , GROW UP !!! and Gabe so what the dude makes PC game ( superior version confirmed ) if the 360 wasn't built like a PC Gabe wouldn't look twice to port L4D or Half Life on 360 and his games are pure shooters at least David Jaffe's best games aren't even in the same genre and if tomorrow Jaffe came out and said his next game was 360 only you 360 freaks would jizz in your pants and welcome him with open arms and make him out to be a gaming god . i've got another 2 words for ya 360 freaks , SUCK IT !!!

[Sonyfanclubpresident]

listen you little worthless computer punk.....
I'll make you a deal,
I aint no internet tough guy,but PM me f@gt,
I'll gladly meet your pathetic @ss and shove 3rd place POS3 up it jr.

waiting for your PM,ya little worthless N4G Gaystation 3rd place loser.

Still waitin fvck head .....come on coward

[Unicron]

Used games are a horrid, horrid thing. Sure, it's great to be able to find old titles easily... but the fact that developers are cut out, and Gamestop keeps seeing record profits, is disgusting.

[v1c1ous]

buying an old title for full price then!

[Unicron]

If that keeps a third party dev in business, so be it. I'd rather see the price go down naturally over time to $40, $30, $20 new than watch as Gamestop continues to **** people over and then pocket your money. I was amazed to hear that Crackdown lost about half a million in sales to Gamestop's used trade, and they didn't see a penny.

For a website that trumpets sales so much, with fanboys on both sides especially "worried" about whether or not a developer sees profit (ZOMG Killzone 2 cost $60 million according to Mart!), I find it amusing that no one actually discusses this rather serious issue and just takes it up the ass from Gamestop.

[v1c1ous]

i understand your frustration and i agree to an extent that developers should be payed for their work.

but why is gamestop being singled out?

do you have the same tendencies when speaking about ebay or paypal?

if i have a game i don't want/need/can't play anymore and want to sell it, it's my choice.

the issue here is not if i want to sell it directly to a friend/stranger, but gamestop acting as a middleman.

i sell someone an old game for $5, they sell it to someone else for $10, should i get a cut of the profit?

[Unicron]

Valid point. I also used to work at Gamestop, and I've seen how deliberately they screw people over. Sure, you can argue that when you buy a game, and it's yours to do with as you wish. I guess I just wish that people were smarter in this regard.

But it amazes me that Gamestop is able to basically steal sales away on a MASSIVE level to the point of their business flourishing while studios go out of business. It's hard to say when enough is enough... one person? A hundred? A thousand? All I know is as I look at Gamestop's business model, well... it just doesn't seem right to me on any level.

[table]

What is really strange is the fact that if you shop around you can usually find new games just as cheap as used ones. I guess alot of people still don't shop online or use ebay to buy used games. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of a cut of used game sales from High Street shops going toward the developer/publisher as long as it is not at our expense.

[evrfighter]

a rough solution is to give each copy of a game its own ID. Said ID can be registered to someones Live or PSN ID. If someone other that the persons ID is using a disc with a registered ID. That person will not be able to play online or collect achievements/trophies. It might curb enough used game sales for bloggers and dev's to STFU.

Ask me if I care about other people in your household that wanna play online too. Thanks to Activision the PC is going down that same path when it comes to LAN's. Otherwise PC gaming has been that way for quite awhile with cd-keys and having online play disabled if someones using a key-gen.

[darx]

I will make sure I buy his games used for sure. And pretty much most games used.

[TOSgamer]

If you feel so strongly about it donate your money to your favorite devs. I see them as a business not a charity. Those successful enough will stay in business. Those that aren't will disappear and new devs will form to take their place. That's capitalism. They work hard for their money and I work hard for my money. If I want to save $20 to $30 buying a used game with my money then I will.

As for Gamestop I got no love for them just because their used games are usually in crap condition. I'd rather buy from a private seller on ebay. But they simply prey on laziness or the need for instant gratification. People can sell their games themselves or let gamestop sell it for them via trade-in. Its just like those prepackaged salads that sell for 4 to 8 times the price of a head of lettuce. People pay more or in Gamestop's case get less for convenience. Unless you want to wage a campaign to outlaw the service sector of the economy your stance on the issue makes no sense to me.

[Bnet343]

Used games have been around since gaming started. Let me know of a company that makes good games that went out of business because of it. Jaffe just wants a piece of the pie. If used games piss you off that much, go digital. Problem solved.

[CrazzyMan]

huh
They should be happy, that MORE people will play their product.
If used game market exists, that means that there is a DEMAND for this market.

Games are OVERPRICED.
If ALL games would cost 15-20$, i wouldn`t mind buying games, which i definitely wouldn`t buy for 60$, instead of renting them in best case.

If games would be affordable as a movie tickets, atleast through online download, there would be much more people who would play them.

Do developers expect you to pay 600-1200$ per YEAR for 10-20 games?
Come on, in some east countries it`s a yearly salary, while this are just GAMES.

[enviable27]

They the devs have the solution to their issue D***k slapping them right on the face, people buy used games because they are more affordable. Lower the price to ($40 a game = more profit) and they can easily increase sales by 50% to 75%. Too bad greed overcomes common sense.

[PS3is4D]

I stopped supporting GameStop a long time ago. I can find newer titles for a lower price at Amazon.com or older titles with a lot lower prices on eBay.

If I ever need to resell a game, I'll just put it up on eBay or craigslist.

[RoseSapphire]

Unicron, are you stupid? I have to assume you're stupid based on your stance on this topic. In fact, I have to assume anyone that is against used game sales as stupid.

Here is the simple fact: I have the right to sell anything I own and so does anyone else.

Sales work in this fasion. 1) I buy your product for a low cost. 2) I sell your product at a profit. 3) I keep the profit or invest in more product.

Sorry, this is the way the world works. If developers want to make more money then they need to put out games that offer enough play and replay value to warrant keeping. No other used business model gives cuts to the original manufacturer. None.

Should every person selling anything on eBay give some of their profit to the companies that made the products they are selling? No. Why should a company make twice the profit off of one item?

Get over yourself. Jaffe can get over himself too.

[Unicron]

"Sorry, this is the way the world works. If developers want to make more money then they need to put out games that offer enough play and replay value to warrant keeping. No other used business model gives cuts to the original manufacturer. None."

And plenty of developers do that. I think this is the ultimate cop out answer however, especially in the world of entertainment. There is no "universal" level of replay value that will appeal to everyone. But despite your attitude, you raise a good point. It's also not just Gamestop's fault, it's gamers. Hell, I replayed StarFox on the SNES at least 40 times. It was all of a 30 minute game, but I loved every moment and replayed it because it was FUN. Nowadays, you have people that want to rush through, beat it in a weak on easy, complain the game was too easy, then return it for 20% of their purchase price. And they think this is smart because they are getting "more money back?"

I guess my beef is more with gamers in this day and age and not Gamestop for capitalizing on general stupidity. Forgive me for being "stupid" for not agreeing with idiots.

[Firebird360]

This is stupid what's next car manufacturer's wanting a slice from Carmax. Everything works this way why is he Complaining?

[Death]

When you buy a new car, you keep it for a relatively long period of time. The idea is to have you trade that car in on a new one every 3-5 years. By the time your used car is put back on the lot, it is done when the cars value is much less and being sold to a completely different market. The guy buying your old car isn't in the same demograph as a person buying a new car. There is no risk of lost sales.

When you buy a new game at $60, then trade it in a few days or a week later it is resold for $55. A person going into Gamestop at that time is going with the intent of buying a new copy. If a used copy is available for $5 less, chances are they will go for the used copy. This turns into a lost sale. Gamestop is happy since they sold the same product twice and the customer is happy because they saved $5. The publisher just got screwed out of a sale though.

To prevent lost sales publishers and devs are going to have to change the way business is done. A one use code to unlock a game, exclusive DLC to the original owner, or digital distribution are some ways to do it.

In my opinion there needs to be a window of sales that go stricty towards new sales. If there were perhaps a 60 or 90 day window where used copies could not be sold it would help the devs make the money they deserve. After that less people are going in with the intent of buying new anyway. That is how the new car market works. Not many people are going to pay $60,000 for a new car and trade it in a week later for $20,000. Since common sense works well in the car industry you have less lost sales to the used car market. Games fall under most people entertainment budget which uses disposable income. Money is less of a factor in this segment.

-Death

[Poopface the 2nd]

smear some poop in the instruction booklet before trading it to gamestop. When people hear about used games with poop on them, they will pay the extra 5$ for no poop on their games.

[ZombieAutopsy]

gamestop just needs to slow down on pushing used games is all. If they waited say 2-4 months after a game is released before selling used copies it would be great (retail only though online would still sell used) for the industry. I dont see this happening though mainly because it is gamestops major money maker.

Also i think i seen this somewhere before, but all developers should make it to were their games will see some DLC that way people hold on to them longer and some of the people that buy it used will buy the dlc for the game and they still get some money out of it.

[Drano]

Most stores make a "profit" of 2-3$ per copy, 5-10$ when they're lucky... and they still haven't paid the delivery guy. The profit on used games is just immoral, yes, but that's because it's the only way for a standalone videogame store to survive. Believe it or not.

Jump Beyond.

[v1c1ous]

make about $5-10 on a new game. ~$7 for a CONSOLE!

[resistance100]

hmm you moan at GAME/GAMESTATION/HMV/GAMESTOP etc selling second hand games, however how is it different to you selling your game on ebay?

At the end of the day, every copy of the game in the world, the developers/publishers have got money for already, whenever it is them selling it themselves OR them selling them to wholesalers who sell on to retailers.

Basically what you are saying is that developers should be paid TWICE for that one copy of the game, even tho that game is no longer there property. Now quote me if im wrong but how is that fair?

[xg-ei8ht]

Tbh, gamestop and all the others actually fk the person who originally bought the game with sh^te money back, they don't give u much, but sell at a much higher price, ebay has got worse, way to many ka-ching for them as well.

God i fking hate money.

But either way it's the money that makes the poor - poorer, it's money that makes the wars rage on longer, it's money that makes the nice become nasty, it's money that makes oil barons richer.

MONEY.

Listen to Michael jacksons song.

[foxtheory]

I take advantage of used games as much as I can, whether it be buying them or selling them. Now that does not necessarily mean I sell/buy to Gamestop, in fact I never have. I have always sold/bought from local exchange stores because Gamestop gives be the worst offers and the worst prices.

I see it this way: I am more inclined to buy a game knowing that if the replayability is bad or it's not what it's cut out to be, I can at least get some of my money back. Now if the used-game thing never existed, I probably wouldn't have bought the game, and the developers wouldn't have gotten my $60.

With buying a used game, I look at it from an average consumer's point of view: it's cheaper and I can find older games at an affordable price. Why wouldn't you take advantage of that? On average, I can get a recently released game used for $45, $15 less than a new game. And in this case, it's a matter of "is this $15 really going to help the developer at the cost of a cheaper game"? To me, as the consumer, I of course want the better deal, whether I save $5 or $15.

[Cajun Chicken]

I'm sorry, I have no problem with secondhand market of games, I get games cheap. The main problem is what's encouraging people to sell titles so early. The games obviously can't be good enough to keep. I try to keep all my games and hate trading them. If I like an idea of a game enough, I buy it new, if I'm being told it's brilliant by everyone and it's popular in the charts but I'm unsure of it, I'll pick it up about 3 months later, I'm not taking any risks with my money over a game with huge hype, unless I'm personally interested.

I'm sorry, I won't defend developers on this one if it affects the price of me getting secondhand games. Authors don't complain about the price of their books at carboot sales, so what gives the developers the right.

Games just need to be better in order for people to keep them.

[Unicron]

You make a good point... I think gamers in this day and age have gotten... I don't know, people have shorter attention spans. I never would have thought to trade in TMNTIV on the SNES, and that was a 25 minute game. Nowadays, even 8 hours (with solid replay/secrets) isn't good enough for people. I find the shift in consumers very... weird.

[Cajun Chicken]

I think the problem is that gaming is now accepted as an alternative to TV, meaning the illusion that games are shorter, so people are completing them faster. Gaming has become full blown entertainment instead of something to do when bored or a simple hobby for a couple of hours.

I've even fell for this trap myself, finding myself gaming over full weekends just playing games and due to budgetary reasons, I will be renting in the future except for a few titles this year, because a lot of games are too short and many don't differ from each other enough.

I really hate trading my games once completing them, those and the relevant saves are my 'achievements and trophies', they are my mounted heads on the wall and every now and then, I dig the feeling and environment certain games bring and visit them for a while.

Used game market, I defend. The people who insist on trading them I don't, because they obviously just play the game as a chore and not as an experience, but that's the catch 22, I can get the games cheaper through whom trade them.

[gamingisnotacrime]

But new games is wrong.
Developers take the risk, put the work and investment
Imagine Batman AA to be found used, that hurts the industry, and in the end hurts the gaming community

[Alcon Caper]

That's not how you spell debacle.

[Kushan]

The REAL unfortunate truth is that if there's a market for it, its for a reason. The reason is simple: Too many good games, not enough cash to buy them all.
If publishers halved the prices of their games, they'd easily sell twice as much, probably more. I know I'd happily buy a new game if it was £25 instead of paying £15 for a used copy. But when it comes to paying £30 for a used copy over £45 for the new, I'll go for the used.
Close the gap between new and used and more people will buy new games.

[Unicron]

Well, one could also argue that if $30 became the norm, people would still be searching for the cheaper price. It's all relative.

[Kushan]

You just have to look at DVDs to see how it would work. DVDs are a lot cheaper than games and the market for used DVDs is MUCH smaller. People buy more new DVDs than used DVDs, the same people that buy mainly used games.

[keysy420]

soon im gonna be a dev in like a year and im gonna use my business degree to open a second hand game store that is developer only based. to challenge gamestop. That way if more profits from games go back to dev's money can be used for indie dev to produce more games.

[PREREQUiSiTE]

Sorry about dibacle (debacle)! I missed that one. lol

I also apologise to HebrewHammer who wrote the actual article and noticed i misplelled it as well...

[StrboyM]

I have no problem with used games, I do have a problem with gamestop. They undercharge for new games which they sell for $5 less...the volume of used games they receive can is incredible, they are almost synonymous with used/trade games...I understand that after you purchase a game and have your way with it, you have gotten your moneys worth but, if im trying to get aother game "that is used also" why am i paying almost full price?

@jaffe, I think there should be some sort of incentive for devs on used games. think about it...not all games sell super high volumes, if your a dev that does create super great games and gamestop is basically staying in business because of these games (ie COD series, GT series, GOW, ect ect) then maybe a certain amount of used games sold should then offer some sort of kickback for devs, say one million used games sold or so?

any thoughts on this?

[Kinetix]

Gamestop says that a significant amount of people trade in their games so they can get a new one so in a way they are seeing where the developers are coming from and try to help them out in a way while still trying to make money. When you trade in a game I think you get more back if you put it on the store's card which is an incentive to buy games/game related items. I personally don't like trading in games or buying used games from gamestop because I feel that it's a ripoff. Anyways yea thas just my 2 cents.

[Death]

Gamestop pays pennies on the dollar for trade ins and makes much more profit per game sold this way. They much rather you buy their used copy than a new one. While the trade in may help a customer to buy a new game, at the same time they are taking one new sale away from the publisher whos game was just traded. The publisher still gets burned by this, but Gamestop makes much more money.

-Death

[erik cartman]

most of you guys are such p*ssies used games rock

[Kinetix]

O..ok.

[nightelfmohawk]

nt

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

1 mans junk, is another mans treasure...

and I've scored alot of treasure and don't feel guilty about it!

[stryx]

If anyone wants to know the dirty truth, Gamestop has employees that specifically go around to buy NEW games at reduced/clearance prices at other retailers/wholesalers to sell the game at their higher used cost.

[SuperStrokey1123]

Im 100% behind used games, you should be able to resell ANYTHING that you buy.

That being said I understand Jaffe and that douche was just trying to bait him and failed miserable. Jaffe is 100% right in saying that if you are the kind of person though that NEEDS to resell a game to see the value in it then they really really shouldnt be in gaming.

[cyclindk]

"dibacle," only one conclusion, people really don't use spell checkers and to say nothing of proofreading.

Also, one could argue the same thing about anything that is resold at some point, it's ridiculous.

[HebrewHammer]

stryx- I worked at Gamestop part time for a year and never have I seen or heard about such practices. That is 100% absurd. If what you say is even remotely true, corporate Gamestop does not mandate nonsense like that. Neither do the Regional managers and even District managers for that matter. If that does happen, it happens at the store level where managers want to improve their stores used numbers and give their employees (game advisors) incentives to trade at that store.

For those who think that money can be given to publishers or developers after the products first transaction to retail, you are unfortuantely wrong. UNFORTUNATELY! I wish developers like EatSleepPlay could get compensation for used software sales, but its unrealistic and would never happen. What incentive do retailers like Gamestop have to give back money? Let me guess. Devs and Pubs will drop support for retailers like Gamestop? lol Be realistic.....

[NotSoSilentBob]

If Jaffe wants a cut of used Game prices then they need to SUPPORT GAMES FULLY!!!!!!!!!!! None of this Exclusive download crap when you first get a game. None of this 100kb file to activate crap. If it is on the DISC then it should be PLAYABLE from the second I start the game up the first time. Jaffe's ego has got the better of him. I guess Ill be missing the next EatSleepPlay game.

Edit: This guy is giving Bobby Kotoick a run for Dumbshat of the year award.

[Grimhammer00]

here's the abbreviated version of what is what - yeah, my opinion is the right one! LOL

-used game sales = NOT first new sales
-developers need to make games that make the purchaser not want to trade it
-dev's need to create compelling DLC....for first adopters.
maybe continuous (relatively speaking) DLC exclusivity for first adopters?

[kingme71]

Nobody is complaining about rentals? One copy that is sent out to 10 (probably more) people? Rentals have much more of an impact than used games as most used games have 2 or 3 owners tops.

If everyone is so concerned their favorite devs are going out of business, get out your checkbook and send them $100.00. I don't feel guilty for buying a plane ticket at a reduced price knowing airlines are struggling. If I buy a used car, I don't sit up at night wondering if Ford will still be around in the morning. Developers have to accept the game economy as it is and quit whining about it. Make your games worth keeping, reduce production costs, give incentives to buy that aren't available second hand.