Valve responds to L4D2 boycott

Valve responds to L4D2 boycott. Amidst the retaliation from gamers due to the hasty announcement of L4D2. Gabe Newell has issued a response to Kotaku.com in an effort to ease the tension from many of the L4D supporters.

[prunchess]

Are milking this cash cow for every red cent they can get, while they can get it.

A petition with 25,000 gamers that have bought L4D saying they won't buy L4D2 is something Valve should take seriously.

[iamtehpwn]

At Ｔｈｉｓ point, why is there a sequel to L４D?　Ｉ　ｍｅａｎ，Ｔｈｅ　ｆｉｒｓｔ　ｏｎｅ　ｊｕｓｔ 　ｃａｍｅ　ｏｕｔ　ｎｏｔ　ｔｏｏ　ｌｏｎｇ　ａｇｏ　ｏ＿Ｏ

[WhittO]

that petition has gone up 5 thousand in just a few days!!

Also people who are saying its just ps3 owners, erm - how when the people who are signing the petition have steam accounts meaning they can just play L4D on their PC's ?

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

Most of those people are probably PC owners. We get a new CoD, Madden and a host of other games every year with not complaints, so what is up with the complaints?

I understand Valve supports their games longer, but still.... To be fair, Valve sold 3 million copies so 25k is a drop in the bucket.

[Pistolero]

Out of the millions of people that bought Left 4 Dead how in the world would it be surprising if 20,000 of them very also PS3 owners? That's not hard to believe at all. Then of course some of them are also just PC gamers that are upset because they think Valve won't support it the way that they expect them to. It isn't that hard to believe at all that many of those boycotters are ps3 fans. Nobody knows how many though.

[SuperM]

Lol why would a ps3 owner care if Valve doesnt make games for the PS3 if hes playing Left4Dead on his gaming PC. If you really think these people are PS3 fanboys then you are pretty frickin el s't'upido. And also 25000 is a conciderable amount. Sure you could say its a drop in the ocean compared to 3 million, but how many people will not buy Left4Dead2 but just wont bother signing up for a boycot? Im guessing alot, im one of them.

[GarandShooter]

Any company that surveys their customers will tell you that only a very small percentage respond. They also tell you that the people who do complain are only a fraction of the people who remain quiet, possibly bad mouth you to other customers/potential customers and never give you business again. This is in no way insignificant.

[DavidMacDougall]

Cause they games are complete!

Im sick of hearing the same old "...but EA do it every year why not valve..." .They can release L4D2 all they like, i'll probably buy it down the line but this petition to me is just making sure they don't just skip onto the next one and save themselfs some money by f**king their PC fanbase over.

This petition has already got Gabe to say there is lots of content coming to L4D

"In addition to the recently released Survival Pack, we are releasing authoring tools for Mod makers, community matchmaking, 4x4 matchmaking, and more new content during the coming months for L4D1..." ( http://kotaku.com/5286185/v...

If the petition wasn't their whos to say they could just take there ideas and put them in L4D2 and just forget about the first?

[really duh]

Looks like PS3 fans are angry they are making another AAA so Soon.

[evrfighter]

I'm a pc gamer. If you've actively followed this boycott and read up on the steam community forums. You would understand that this is NOT the resentment of PS3 fanboys. If it were they would actually be helping the cause of 360/pc l4d owners.

You may think that 25k is a drop in the bucket but that's 25k refusing to pay full price for this game. I would imagine there are probably at least 20k more people that won't that havn't signed this. when you look at the numbers. That's a guaranteed $2 million dollars they won't have. A million dollars isn't a drop in the bucket to any company. Valve isn't EA, M$, or Sony. This is when serious decisions have to be made.

Like I've said many many times here @ n4g. PC gamers speak with their wallets unlike the console gamer, who eats up mediocre crap and spreads their buttcheeks for DLC all year long. Valve has acknowledged the boycott and will more than likely meet the group halfway.

Take notes console gamers. This is how you get more bang for your buck.

[Jack Meahoffer]

That's all this is.

We should boycott Call of Duty, Guitar Hero, Madden, FIFA and many other games. There is no difference. Zero.

These whiney delusional self important idiots should be ashamed. I'd be ashamed to have my name on that list of douches. Don't buy the game if you don't like it along with every other game that releases every single year.

And the first L4D was "complete" so that reasoning is not valid in my opinion. I bought L4D. One of the major reasons the game is so great is the director and how the game has so much replayablity. It was built that way. Not to have 100 levels. And they're still giving content to the first game so people need to chill out.

[No Way]

You hafta be frickin el s't'upido to not think PS3 fanboys are signing the petition..
As soon as it reached N4G, I knew a few 100 already signed up.

Seriously, would you be surprised? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Same can be said if it was a PS3 game, and x360 owners were signing the petition..

[Struz]

It's alllllways about the PS3 fans.

[pumpkinpunker]

a 25k petition is nothing. this game will sell millions. Valve really doesn't care. Someone probably brought it up in an interview and they gave an answer. Besides the little b$tches signing the petition know nothing about Valve and probably just have sand in their vaginas because they should know that Valve still supports CS (a game released in the nineties) to this day even though CS: Source (its sequel) has been out for years.

@mebob

mebob, you should change your name to kneel and bob. I've been gaming since the eighties and playing Valve games back when the original Half-life was less than a year old.

to be honest, most 360 fanboys really don't care about the PS3. we're happy you have a system and we're happy you think that you have games we want. notice that MGS on the 360 isn't really a big deal in the 360 community? 360 fanboys aren't living in the nineties, early 2000s when MGS was a top franchise.

Truthfully, 360 fanboys really just don't like having a bunch of sony fanboys trolling every 360 related topic with negativity or spreading a bunch of BS about the 360. it gets annoying.

[mebob]

funny how most people who defends valve's decision on L4d2 are mostly xbox owners. Shows you the how how far they go just to be able to have half an exclusive games over the ps3. Here everyone is trying to get valve to make l4d2 more cheaper or even free by making it an expansion pack, yet their are still fanboys who are willing to pay the full price to be able to claim it as an "exclusive" full game for their system.

i'm a pc owner, and i don't really give a crap what valve charge or does to ld42 i usually buy the game once they go down in price anyway. Just sick and tired of xbox fanboys who regularly claimed game exclusivity even though its also coming to the PC.

[SaberEdge]

Look, I bought the first one, it was a ridiculously fun game and was worth every penny I spent on it. Downloadable content came along and it was FREE. Valve is telling us they have more on the way. Honestly, what is there to complain about? I just don't understand it at all.

You say the boycotters are trying "to make l4d2 more cheaper or even free by making it an expansion pack" as if that is a good thing. Sure, wouldn't it be nice if every game was free, but of course that is not how things work. I would rather pay for it to be honest. Valve are one of the most talented developers in the world and they have given me some of the best gaming moments of my life with Half Life, Half Life 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead and others. I think talent like that deserves to be rewarded, not pressured to give away their stuff for free just because we have a society that thinks the world owes them something.

Edit @ mebob. Reading over your comments makes one thing clear: you are not just some concerned PC gamer. More like a PS3 fanboy with an axe to grind.

[Consoldtobots]

I think anyone in here making dumb comments about Ps3 fans being behind this are trolling, should have their comment removed and spend a nice vacation in the open zone.

[mebob]

"Edit @ mebob. Reading over your comments makes one thing clear: you are not just some concerned PC gamer. More like a PS3 fanboy with an axe to grind."

I can say the same about you after reading your comments that you sound like a 360 fanboy and i don't even have a ps3.........(although i would want one but the price for it atm it isn't worth it imo. and i don't buy a 360 for obviuos reasons. Most game on it i already played on my pc)

"Sure, wouldn't it be nice if every game was free, but of course that is not how things work."

Of course that is not "how things work" if we just sit and do nothing about it. Hence why there is a reason for the boycott to change "how things work" and to stop valve from turning into the next EA.

"Valve are one of the most talented developers in the world"

Thats your opinion, but imo they seem more lazy then talented. Seems to me they only made handful of good games and depend on modders to makes the rest (skins, maps, game modes etc...). And the fact that they can't make games for ps3 proves to me that they are just lazy. but this is just my opinion.

"I think talent like that deserves to be rewarded, not pressured to give away their stuff for free just because we have a society that thinks the world owes them something."

They don't have to give it away for free, like i said they could just sell it as an expansion. And whats wrong with making it an expansion since most people already owns l4d.

Until they can justify the price i will not change my opinion.

[SaberEdge]

Look, it has the amount of content and new features as any full game should, so why do you think it should be sold as an expansion and not a full game? Would you ask for Assassin's Creed 2 or Uncharted 2 to be sold as an expansion? Because honestly, that's exactly what you are doing here. More downloadable expansions will be coming for the first L4D so don't worry.

Another problem is, if they sold it as an expansion how would new users be able to buy it and enjoy it?

It has all the qualities of a full sequel and should be sold as a full retail sequel.

[blackstuff]

I thought the arguement being put across was that the L4D community was going to be split and thus affecting the quality of the multiplayer gaming quality? But instead we have the console war debate going on, again. Either way, I don't see how the content Valve has laid on the table infront of us at E3 warrants reason enough to release a whole new stand-alone game. Like when BF2142 was release everybody cried it was just a glorified mod, which it was and it did stop me from going out and buying it. As far as I can see, L4D is still selling strongly and the servers are still packed with gamers, so why do something that might be counter-productive to that? Who knows, by the time L4D 2 comes out, all that might have died down.

I'm not really fussed, I'll prolly buy the game anyway. Valve do a great job, they are constantly on the ball and I can't fault them in any way, shape or form. If there was a gaming service i'd recommend to a friend, it would undoubtley be STEAM for their high level of quality service. Adios!

[edhe]

No, it's not something they should take seriously as it's just a bunch of silly people that feel entitled to more than they have.

They bought a game, and are complaining there's a new one? P!ss off.

All it means is that if all of them don't buy it, they'll only sell 25k less of millions.

[skottey]

If you believe any more than 5% of these petition signers will actually boycott the game, I have a bridge to sell you!

They will be standing next to me the Tuesday the game is released, buying their copies too.

L4D2 will outsell the first game. It is your loss if you don't want to buy it. I'll bet you change your mind though.

[Grandizer]

Bring me sequels quick.

I get tired of shooters quick because I have a short attention span and I am glad when developers feed me with more as fast as they can.

Welcome L4D2. Quit whining!

They deserve to milk my piggy bank, at least, they milk it way less often than MMO devs do.

[poopface1]

Because these complainers are sad losers. IF you dont like it then keep playing L4d1. If you think that all the modders will move on to L4D2 then get off your lazy azz and start making some mods yourself. Its not valves problem if they want to release a sequel a year later, it a problem for the sad sacs who want to complain like little sissys.

Regardless of L4D2 I guarantee you that valve will support L4D1 more than any other companys support their games.

A few months after release youll be able to buy L4D2 for like 20$ on steam anyways. L4d has been offered for only 10$ on steam a couple times already. The sooner L4D2 comes out, the sooner youll be able to get it for 10$.

ANd NOOOOOO: valve sure doesnt need thes money form theese 25,000 people. Not at all. The own Steam which more than likeley brings in way more money than XB live.

Im surprised these people who paid full price are complaining about this but didnt complain the few times valve sold the game for 10$.

LOL gUY above who thinks taht a few million if alot to valve----- WITH STEAM VALVE MAKES MORE PROFIT FROM SELLING VIDEO GAMES THAN SONY AND MICROSOFT COMBINED MOST LIKELY.

MABY YOU THINK IM AN XBOT but, Ive been playing valve games much longer than there has ever been an xbox, and valve are the best FPS makers ever, regardless of what butt hurt ps3 fanboys like to say about gabe.

[skatezero246]

Microsoft was lacking games?

[SumRandomDude]

I am a PS3 owner, but I also have a good PC. It sux that they're releasing a sequel so quick but what can we do to stop them. IMO, L4D got boring after the first few months. :\ As long as they keep up the work with TF2 i'm happy. ^_^

[JsonHenry]

The people complaining are just used to valve giving them free content after free content. I mean, just look at Team Fortress 2! Two years after release they still give free stuff away to people who bought the game.

Whatever. A new sports game is released every year with minimal content except updated rosters and people have no problem spending money on this.

We all know the people who bought L4D are gonna buy L4D2 regardless of how much they whine about not getting it as free content.

[Kushan]

I completely disagree. There are two extremes to this argument: 1) L4D2 should be a full priced game and 2) L4D2 should be free content.
I don't think either is correct. L4D2, to me, screams "expansion". It takes L4D and adds a few new bits and pieces here and there, but nothing to really warrant a full sequel.

What Valve should do is offer it as an addon for L4D (aka DLC for the 360 version) and release a special edition of L4D that has all the content as a full priced game. L4D may have been a full priced title when it was released, but a year later it should have dropped in price anyway. That way, if you've already got L4D, it's only the price of an expansion but if you don't have L4D, you can pay one full price to get the original and this. This isn't anything revolutionary, it's pretty much how all PC games with expansions have worked for years now.

[GarandShooter]

@ Kushan

Completely agree.

[evrfighter]

L4d2 IS an expansion. I'm sure the younger gamers out there expect this to be free. But any gamer with a head on his shoulders knows they should dish out at least $15-$20 for this.

[omni_atlas]

I don't buy sports games every year. You're a moron if you do.

[JsonHenry]

Again, it all amounts to people wanting to pay less (or nothing at all) for the sequel. You haven't played the game. At most you have only watched the E3 videos.

The game has a campaign (according to Valve) that is longer than L4D. It has over 22 new weapons. It has ALL the game modes including the the DLC game modes that came out for L4D. All new characters. New monsters. Melee combat (totally new to the series).

Sounds a lot like a full sequel to me.

** EDIT - I agree, anyone who buys sports game every year is wasting money in my book.

[No Way]

How do you know it doesn't warrant a full sequel when you know almost nothing?
Sure, they said some things but I'm positive there will be hidden goodies.
Besides, there is enough new content known to warrant a sequel.

I don't understand why this is such a big deal, anyway..

[Kushan]

Oh that's easy, it takes more than 1 year to make a full sequel these days. Especially with Valve.

[Grandizer]

People are whining with their belly full of Zombie chunks.

[No Way]

It'll have been a year by the time it releases, will it not?

[Gamer_Politics]

so i guess call of duty doesnt come out every year?people need to stop bein so foolish Valve will continue to support L4D even though part 2 is coming out this year

[WhittO]

Call of Duty is developed by an entire different developer and is an entirely new game, Infinity Ward dont release a MW each year do they ?

L4D2 is developed by the same devs and the changes could prob be implemented in a patch, but they are putting it in a new game and charging $60 instead.

Think of GTA DLC, that was huge but they didnt price it and make it GTA 5 did they?! (even though they prob could have because was large DLC), but thats what Valve are doing..

[iamtehpwn]

You may get a new Call of Duty, or Final Fantasy spin off every year, but each one is a new game, with its own Individual Spirit and theme.

L4D2 is simply too early. No one's mad at them for beginning development as soon as the first one was done, most developers do this for popular sequel but in reality...

Whats STUPID of Valve is revealing and releasing the title this early with Practically no changes to the original--An Expansion pack more then anything.

[Gamer_Politics]

so your saying if another dev company was making L4D2 it would be alright long as its not coming from valve?MW2 is nothing accept call of duty with differnt name.....

[WhittO]

Actually yes thats part of it, it would be like Insomniac releasing a Resistance each year or Naughty Dog releasing an Uncharted every year, there is simply TOO LITTLE time for development of the game for it to have any real differences/improvements etc (think Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 2, big difference its an ENTIRELY new game and not Uncharted 1 with some new environments - 2+ years of development).

Good games take time to develop, usually 2+ years, 1 year to develop and complete an entire game is way too short! (if the game was going to be any good that is anyway, and not some DLC which is being shown as a new game?)

[Gamer_Politics]

why dont you wait until the game is finished?then you can pass judgements about whats been improved or not...none of us on these game forums really know anything about the game yet...but are quick to judge something we havent played or seen real gameplay of....

[XxSpiiKeZxX]

whats the difference between modern warfare and world at war??
a huge difference...sure the gameplay is about the same but the experiance is different
L4D2 is being released way too early but the problem is, is that it lookz the same even halo:odst didnt come a year after halo 3
teh thing is is that pple dnt want to spend 60$ ona game that can be easily patched

[GarandShooter]

Isn't defending a game we know nothing about just the other side of the coin that criticizing a game we know nothing about is?

[irish-leprecaun]

same with cod6. if lfd2 was developed by a different developer starting 2 years ago it would be ok and would have time for it to be a proper sequel instead of a an update!

[Troll-Killer]

...the squatting black dude looks like Charles S. Dutton. :D

[skottey]

You racist SOB!!!!!

Just kidding... didn't even know who you were talking about until I googled his name... then I recognized him. Similarly looking but all blacks look alike. Just kidding!

[eagle21]

this is why this and ODST is DLC in a $60 box.

[red2tango]

lol i'm surprised i'm saying this but completely true ^

[Kushan]

If it's "just DLC", then why does it need to be spread over 2 disks?

[Dude420]

I like how this guy used his wording so he can sneak in some Halo bashing in here, Open Zone is that way >>>>>>

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

I think Microsoft puts a heavier emphasis on DLC than Sony for the moment, but I fail to see how they are light on games. Sony is just doing phenomenal. We haven't had a slump in titles this whole year - a result of increased competition. Microsoft is doing as best they can.

[dylantalon]

PS3 IS THE FUTURE AND THE FUTURE IS PS3

ps. the talon stands for talented

[Troll-Killer]

...please kill yourself. :(

[evrfighter]

lol the guy with the /facepalm sig showed up. poor kid...

[Pandamobile]

Why do people think this has ANYTHING to do with Microsoft is beyond me.

I'm also glad to see that Valve has taken note of the situation and will deal with it in what ever way they seem fit.

[Troll-Killer]

...idiot Sony fanboys like Dylantalon above, thinks "talon" stands for "talented" ?

[DiLeCtioN]

its on xbox 360 which is microsoft's machine and also pc?

[Pandamobile]

This has nothing to do with Sony or Microsoft.

I dislike both companies and do not buy their products.

90% of the L4D2 outrage is from the PC community because we expect more from Valve.

[Troll-Killer]

You do realize that anyone with a PC can sign up for Steam...free of charge...and sign that petition, right? That is why Sony fanboys were brought into this from the beginning; they have a history of "boycotting" or signing whinyass petitions against devs because they've gone against the PS3. It's happened with DMC4, Fallout 3, GTA 4, Orange Box...and now L4D.

[dktxx2]

Ms has nothing to do with Valve releasing L4D2 so early. MS just approved it most likely. I'm certain they didn't force Valve to do this. hell if they were going to force Valve to make a game, it'd be Half Life 3. That'd make a much bigger splash.

[Pandamobile]

Microsoft has no sway over Valve.

Valve are a third party developer. They even said they were reluctant to develop games for the 360 in an old interview I saw.

[Brock Danger]

There was an article on here the other day talking about how Valve let MS know that they were making L4D just as an fyi practically (it was the article about Valve not seeing the 'big, bad, ugly side' of MS).

This is all Valve.

[3sq]

I just join the boycott group through Steam.

Sorry Valve, no buy L4D2 this time. I'm not gonna get screwed.

Edit :

Pistolero

I admit I do like Sony better than MS. But I also do have PC. Do you want to see my hard copy of original L4D? Seriously this time I didn't mention anything about MS. Want my Steam ID too? we can meet up in L4D if you want proof.

I said Valve, Not MS, you idiot.

Eidt again: YOU CANNOT JOIN THE GROUP IF YOU DON'T HAVE A STEAM ACCOUNT, AND WHY DO I HAVE THE ACCOUNT? BECAUSE I PURCHASED THE DAMN GAME AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO COMPLAIN OF IT. IT'S MY $50!!! GEEZZ!!!

Anyway what I stated in my history about MS are facts too.

Are you denying it? Well keep living in your dream then.

[Pistolero]

Just look at the post history of the guy above me, which shows he is a hardcore PS3 fanboy, and you can see that PS3 fanboys are indeed joining in on the boycott. So please quit trying to pretend like it isn't happening.

[Pandamobile]

He still bought L4D, which means he is a part of this.

[GarandShooter]

'and you can see that PS3 fanboys are indeed joining in on the boycott.'

Yeah, because everyone knows that you can't possibly own a PS3 and be a PC gamer as well.

[Kenshinhimurasz]

I bought L4D when it came out... Joined the boycott group today, i was hoping for new weapons, character, maps, and many more updates but only one survival pack so far? If i would have known that they were going to make L4D2 i wouldn't have bought the first one, because its going to be inferior to the new one. They should just make L4D2 as an expansion pack not a stand alone game.

@Pistolero yes i do own a ps3, but also own a gaming computer. If i have the money to buy a ps3 why wouldn't I have the money to buy a gaming computer as well? Most gamers have computers that they use to play with... and wait aren't I using a computer right now? Just think about it...

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

the worse type of fanboyism, is people who like to call out people for being a fanboy when they just have an opinion.

I only own a PS3, but I often get to play XBox games with my Xbox-owning buds. So naturally I have an opinion of them, irrespective of what platform they are on.

My Xbox-owning buds feel the same way. We're gamers. If we had the money, we'd have every system next to every television in my house.

[thecremeegg]

Bet you suckers feel gutted for buying the first L4D at full whack.....4 levels, wow well worth it :p

[Dude420]

I've invested so many hours into L4D because it's so bloody fun, now with the addition of Survival Mode, it has still kept me interested, so I consider my $50 well spent.

[Tomonobu Itagaki]

Valve should delay Left4Dead 2 to the next year and profit of this extra time to upgrade significantly their Source engine.

Like this, people will finally have a Valve game that doesn't suck bricks graphically, they will stop complaining about "it's too soon to release it!" and they will enjoy playing a 5 hours campaign that they will play thousand of times because there's nothing else on the disc until Left4Dead 3.

[Pandamobile]

You do realize that the Source engine is more than 5 years old, right?

Half-Life 2 set the bar in graphics in 2004 and they've had no reason to make a new engine. They can upgrade it for specific games, but they're not going to do a Source Engine 2 til after Episode 3.

It just wouldn't make sense to switch to a new engine just to finish off the Half-Life 2 story arc.

[TABSF]

the source engine is getting updates all the time

hell the difference between HL2 and L4D are huge, this may not be noticeable on console but on PC with all setting max the difference is very noticeable.

stop the b!tching

you ether get it or not

[air1]

i dont think episode 3 will ever come out.

whats up valve?! i cant see you having any technical problems with a 5 year old engine.

[Brock Danger]

Even though Valve, a pretty respectable developer (to put it lightly), says that this content is too big for DLC (considering that its all new boards, updated animations, a revamped AI, new characters, new weapons, new enemies and enemy behavior) everyone is now smarter than said developers and "knows that it should be DLC"?

If Valve says it's a whole new game, why is it so hard to imagine that, gasp, it might be worth full price of admission? Regardless, it's hard to say anything until more details are known. And don't expect a graphic overhaul, this game is all about the play. (Kinda like back when the PS2 was all about gameplay compared to the blatantly more powerful xbox? Gee, remember those days?)

[air1]

yea, i remember those days.

"its not about the graphics its game play"

in this gen, you just might lose a bubble in n4g for saying something like that...

[TABSF]

what has microshaft got to do with any of this

valve = PC (this includes linux and windows)

and the xbox free fix me version is dumbed down and lamer in every way

why is this always valve and MS, when MS have nothing to do with it

vavle make good quality games and if ur complaining dont get it, i hate L4D but from what i have seen L4D2 will own

[omni_atlas]

You do realize Valve is run by ex-microsoft employees right??

[Tehdaza]

Keyword: 'Ex.'

[fr0sty]

I know over 21 million people who WON'T boycott if you bring the game to their system...

[Tehdaza]

I also know 21 million people who won't get the game because it's not on their system.

[likedamaster]

I also know 21 million who are missing out if they don't have a decent PC.

[Sir Ken_Kutaragi]

http://www.flippycrap.com/i...

;-D

[mt]

then all of those who said we are boycotting L4D2 will buy it .

[-chaz-]

Twenty bucks says Valve has a Steam sale or discount for L4D owners within a month after release.

[darrensworld]

I'm a PS3 gamer, but i have been playing valve games for years on my pc and this move is bullshit. L4D just came out, im sorry you console only gamers don't understand, but valve has been good to us pc gamers for years. I feel like their jump to the 360 skewed their priorities with L4D2. This is clearly an expansion pack, no new engine, same graphics, just more missions with a set of new characters. They can't be serious.

[Kurylo3d]

1.) 25,000 people not buying the game is 1 million 250,000 dollars out of valves pockets... Thats a lot of money anyway you spin it. Espeacially since valve doesnt need publishers, they use steam and people download it over their servers..

2.) Lets not get it twisted... Left 4 dead 1 was SHORT AS HELL.... REASON many people put up with it was the promise valve made to bring in lots more content additions.... A promise people beleived since it was valve... and valve usually does some good stuff for their games..

Alls us left 4 dead owners got were 2 extra maps for versus which were coop maps already... no change... same maps... You could already play those maps in versus if you typed in the command to change level... and chose one of those...

LEFT 4 DEAD is a half life 2 mod... its counter strike with zombies.. no gameplay additions really... matter of fact half life 2 has better free mods... with more quality and more art... Again only reason we put up with it is we assumed there would be a lot more levels and stuff coming.

So valve did not deliver...

3.) I hope they make no money at all on left 4 dead 2 until it goes to 20 dollars.... that will teach them a lesson to not release short mods and pass them off as games...

[-chaz-]

".. matter of fact half life 2 has better free mods... with more quality and more art..."

What are those? Not arguing, just curious. I have Zombie Panic but it's gameplay is a little kludgy for my tastes.

[Tehdaza]

Are you retarded?

Just because a game is on the same engine as other games doesn't make it a 'mod'.

Learn what the term 'mod' means.

There's a lot of games that run the Unreal 3 Engine. Does that mean every UE3 game is a mod of Unreal Tournament III? No.

Educate yourself.

[Kurylo3d]

Educate myself?!? I am a developer. This is my job... it pays my bills. Anyway... left 4 dead is a mod ... Not cause its the same engine.. but cuase its a copy of the counterstrike gameplay... its the same code.. same movement... same everything.. even the guns... are the same... just model switch outs... and sound switch outs... The only addition to left4 dead were the mosnters and zombies... other then that its a mod. A multiplayer mod. And some better mods out there are things like Neo Tokyo, Dystopia, also that one with space and ships where you can dock with the mother ships and go fps inside them... Id mention natural selection 2, but they arent using the source engine anymore lol... but they were a mod for half life 1... Point is a lot more work went into those modes...

Console gamers think those mods for ps3 unreal 3 are mods... jetpack isnt a mod... its a mutator... lol... its no real content.

Nothing wrong with using the same engine to make a new game, but make a new game. Gears of war and unreal 3 are 2 seperate games.. on teh same engine. Different gameplay. Left4dead vs counterstrike.. should be called counterstrike 1.3 lol . The point is valve didnt put that much work into a totally new title... They used what they had, what they use for every game they make. Its the same code recycled. They market mods for halflife 2 and sell them. Not to say they arent fun mods.... but im not gonna buy a sequel to a mod unless its on the half life 3 engine lol... or unless it brings somethign to the table that the original left 4 dead cannot. new monsters and new levels and new guns can be added to the original left 4 dead.

There playing the fans for fools... and i dont like it..

Next time you make an uneducated comment about someone not knowing something. Google my name. Punk.

[laaakokaracha]

....I think of the good old super nintendo days...those were relaxing!

Gamers back than were happy about ONE good game per year!

Damn it, it was so out of space to even think about DLC!

[CobraKai]

I'm gonna get L4D2 once I feel L4D has run it's course.

[PainisCupcake]

I'd rather Valve were pulling their finger out with even just a tiny piece of HL2: Episode 3 info, just something small, no EP2 style spoilers lol

[BenderDGreat82]

I don't get why people are crying and moaning so much. I paid full price for L4D and it's quite possible one of the most fun multiplayer games I've ever played. I honestly feel I've gotten my money's worth and was even happier that Valve released 2 extra Versus maps along with the new Survival mode for......FREE! Every person that I've spoken to while playing L4D has been really excited for this game because of the fact that we've enjoyed the original so much and would love to see new weapons, maps, modes and such. I think the spoiled gaming community is so accustomed to getting freebies and not realizing the concept of supply and demand. I don't think Valve should worry about these 25,000 babies and realize they DO, in fact, have a cash cow and as long as they keep providing the goods with a few extras here and there, I, along with the millions of others that have purchased L4D, will gladly support them.

[FantasyStar]

I completely disagree. I on the other hand felt jipped paying $60 for half of a game. The game's only 4 hours long, and the AI Director doesn't make the experience any fresher. The lack of weapons made the experience more stale. And Versus mode doesn't have very long legs when everyone is whining that they didn't start out as infected.

The fact that they're releasing another game that looks exactly the same as the first game and charging the full price again is a plain ripoff. It's not a "sequel", it's an "expansion" being priced as a full-game.

[Tehdaza]

Left 4 Dead is supposed to be short. Who would want to play a campaign that is 3 hours long a hundred times in VS Mode.

Each campaign is about an hour long which is the perfect length for it.

[likedamaster]

" don't get why people are crying and moaning so much. I paid full price for L4D and it's quite possible one of the most fun multiplayer games I've ever played. I honestly feel I've gotten my money's worth"

Seriously, say no more. L4D was well worth the money by the simple fun factor.

[air1]

no dev. comes close to the kinda support that valve gives there games, and this is how the pc fan base reacts when valve asks for full price?!

pc gamers do NOT like to support pc gaming all you ppl ever want is free sh!t. these guys need to live too ya know.. gimme gimme gimme for free.

what i would do is say fvck you, all the free updates you have gotten over the years and this is how you kids react! yes mofo's l4d2 is coming and is much bigger then you think, idiots dont even know much of the game yet. then i would make it exclusive for the 360 and just give little updates to l4d1 to the broke as$ pc gamers..

you pc gamers should be ashamed, give some damn support every once in a while to your dying community..

give valve a damn chance maybe it is more then just an "expansion" and l4d isnt about graphics.. were the hell was all you ppl when the xbox had the better graphics last gen?

[DuneBuggy]

Who paid 60 bucks for L4D? I bought two copies in November (PC and Xbox). The Xbox version was 50 bucks and the PC version was 10 dollars less.
I honestly had more fun and replay with L4D than GTA4 and Halo 3 (that I did pay 60 bucks each for).
L4D2 cant come fast enough.

[OtherWhiteMeat]

If L4D2 became a PS3 exclusive would you xbox fanboys still be whining? If the first one was so good you still be playing it and not crying about the price of the second. Wipe up your tears and go back to gaming.

[GamerPS360]

I am PC and PS3/360 player but I have not signed for boycott group. For me, Valve is very respectable developers and L4D2 is not like them. Something is not right. I will simply not support L4D2 by not buying it until it drops to $20.

[Taz X14]

The funniest thing about this is that if the boycott works, the PC and 360 users are the ones who'd benefit. It's not like they're petitioning for a ps3 version but rather more content for the first one or a more complete game for the second. If anything the 360 users should be jumping on this bandwagon as soon as possible to get the ball rolling and letting valve know that you want more than was given and want all that was promised.

As to those comparing it to madden COD etc, I'm sorry but there's tons more content in a single iteration of those games than 2 of these combined. Think of every character model they have to make for a single madden game, or having to go over each player's contract with EA to make sure his likeness is in the game etc. then tell me that they keep releasing the same game each year with ease.

Yes EA had done this in the past but then look at their newest games, updating rosters, player trading etc, everything people had been asking for for years is finally being added into the game, why? Because today's economy doesn't allow publishers to just release the same old crap just updated, you have to do something different to make money.

Valve may get away with this on this iteration because there'll be enough people who'll blindly follow valve but they'll get burnt and then they'll seriously end up hurting the name, and after that gamers will eventually lose trust in that particular franchise.

[Ace Killa 08]

really?!?! boycott a game that will not be release until november of this year?

why not pay full price for L4D2? u did on the first game and it only lasted 4 hours of story gameplay and endless time in MP. seriously i honestly believe the gaming community is turning into lil babies that wish the whole world, or games, were like burger king they want it their way!!

people believe they are gettin ripped off for buyin a sequel game, why?

just cause it took valve a year to make the game? seriously how hard would it be to make a game the original L4D been in development for a long time and they get bad talked or boycotted for making a sequel in less than a year. Bad company 2 coming out this year and that game also came out last how come people are not boycotting that!

really 3 million copies sold that game is a seller, it will hurt the sells if 25k people dont buy the game but hey a new item always attracts new customers. honestly i do say it will be a matter of time before some loser modder makes an imitation mod of L4d2 once its release since they cheap enough to not buy the orignial game.

please tell why its bad to buy a good game, why i shouldn't own a sequel to a game after a year from its release?

also for the people boycotting ask a friend(if you have any) who knows a thing or two about games, ask them if boycottin a new game is a good idea and u tel them ur reasons, i hope your friend will look at you for a good while and seriously regret meeting you as a friend since you complain for a game that has not even come out yet

if anyone has any disagrees or wish to prove me wrong do so
in the mean time im goin to play some survival mode (which was free) then some versus in the new maps the was release( which is also free)

since im spoiled enough i do think the game does deserve to be played

[mebob]

"why not pay full price for L4D2? u did on the first game and it only lasted 4 hours of story gameplay and endless time in MP."

well remember back in the day of counter strike, Even though counter strike was repetitive didn't have a story or a champagne but it was fun and addictive. like L4d nowadays.

But when the source engine came out did valve sell and market CS:S as a full game? no it was included with half life 2 for free or a $20(AUS) purchase when it came out.

"people believe they are gettin ripped off for buyin a sequel game, why?"

Because most people are intelligent enough to see what valve is really trying to do. Why couldn't valve do the same thing to l4d as they did to counter strike?. Because valve see that there are people who are so blinded by their fanboy goggles or just plain stupid enough to pay full price for an expansion.

"please tell why its bad to buy a good game, why i shouldn't own a sequel to a game after a year from its release?"

There's nothing bad about buying a "good game". It just the price that is slap on the box isn't justified by the amount of content that is in the game. And if there are people who willingly don't see past that then developers like valve and EA can keep doing the same thing over and over.

Put simply: Would you rather pay $100 or $40 for l4d2(if you already owned the first l4d)? (i'm using AUS currency BTW)

[Ace Killa 08]

good point on the CS being free after the new source engine came out, however do you honestly believed that valve gave a free game before or reduced the price that they should do it again? honestly we get a good gift from them in the past(i do play CS and its a great game) and now we going to use their gift against them or use it as an example why we should get this sequel at a reduce price?

and honestly if pc gamers waste around $500 or so for their comp to run games i believe they can STFU since they wasted money as it is and they dont want to waste more

and really who are we to say what should be done to a game, that it should be dlc instead of a cd, or the price is to high
really we are just gamers unless anyone here has a degree in business and specializes in video games we literally have nothin to say we are not experts on how prices should be or anything in the game industry yeah we read facts and have evidence to prove it but we have our regular day job and not a job working with valve or any other game company.

honestly i will buy the game for it being great, hell i bought gears of war 2 its exactly the same but just cool extra features added but its a good thing epic came out with this game 2 years after if not their good game wouldn't sell at all IT BE BOYCOTTED

[mebob]

"and honestly if pc gamers waste around $500 or so for their comp to run games i believe they can STFU since they wasted money as it is and they dont want to waste more"

oh really?
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://gamechalkboard.com/f...

This computer will run most games at max setting and way higher resolution than the 360 or ps3 can run and its only $300(us).

"and really who are we to say what should be done to a game, that it should be dlc instead of a cd, or the price is to high "

We are the customer the one to hand over our hard earned cash to them. Without us they would not be here, infact we are a big impact on the decision and marketing that they make and therefore have a big say on if the game is good or just a rip off.

If we just sit idling around and just accept what they sell us then over time they can take advantage of that like what EA does to so many sports fan with there mediocre yearly FIFA/NBA/MADDEN XXX number releases and charge full price for it.( hell i used to buy every dam copy of them on ps2)

"really we are just gamers unless anyone here has a degree in business and specializes in video games we literally have nothing to say we are not experts on how prices should be or anything in the game industry"

Exactly, because we are the "gamers" shouldn't we have a say on the games itself? i mean we are the ones playing it and paying for it.

You can purchase the game if you want to, there is no stopping you. Just realize that you could be screwing other gamers over if valve one day becomes the next "EA".

[Ace Killa 08]

you know i did want to put the price to $300 but i dint know if it was enough to actually make a comp from scratch, but i guess you can.

and since we are the buyer we should have it our way? dam man i want gas prices to go down but half of america wanting this is not making the price go down, i want free dlc too but its not going to happen its a business unless someone in the gaming community has a source engine, and makes a l4d2 for free then we are forced to buy the game no matter what, it does not matter how the game is delivered via dvd or dlc we have to buy the game. and seriously valve only has 2 good games in my opinion cs is good but its not a new title valve has half life (this includes all half life episodes and TF2) and l4d, and their recent action can make them like an EA. when EA has all the sports titles out in the market. also 2k.

honestly only a small percent of gamers actually care who the developers are and are actually into video games some just buy it and leave it to pick up dust. so only a few will care and it will not matter what they care since the big business people never do we buy broken games, or good games at full price they set the rules and we cant b*tch about it

so really deal with what we have a game that is a good game, and its coming out at full price, now if the game were to suck and really not live to the hype then it will be a regret full $60 dollars wasted.

[mebob]

"and since we are the buyer we should have it our way? dam man i want gas prices to go down but half of america wanting this is not making the price go down,"

Gas and Games are totally different things, its apples and oranges. We NEED gas but WANT games. So there isn't much of a choice there.

"it does not matter how the game is delivered via dvd or dlc we have to buy the game."

Yer but at what price?

"honestly only a small percent of gamers actually care who the developers are and are actually into video games some just buy it and leave it to pick up dust."

Then why should we care about them? If these people really exists they are the reason why EA are the way they are today.

"They set the rules and we cant b*tch about it"

Oh yes we can, that's why there is a huge backlash and the boycott.

"so really deal with what we have a game that is a good game, and its coming out at full price, now if the game were to suck and really not live to the hype then it will be a regret full $60 dollars wasted."

Well i know i'm not paying full price for it, All they are doing is making me wait longer before i'm gonna purchase it. (Thats if i purchase it.)

[XDF]

I don't give a [email protected] was my favorite game in 2008 and I am so exicted for L4D2. BTW, Sony fanboys, why do you care, it is not like you have any interest in buying this game anyways.

Day one purchase for me along with HALO ODST, Uncharted 2, Forza 3, Assassin's Creed, MW2, Bioshock 2, and Splinter Cell Conviction. Be a gamer and not a hater people.

[Ace Killa 08]

"Be a gamer and not a hater people."

i like that phrase if you were truly a gamer you would go enjoy the best games out there with no worries of price or if it should be a dlc

ill stick with that and buy l4d2 since i love video games and i do love l4d

[SaberEdge]

It's getting really old to see the same tired comments about Left 4 Dead 2 being an expansion. What utter nonsense.

It has all the content you would expect for a sequel, with new characters, new weapons, new gameplay mechanics and all new gameplay environments and scenarios. How is that different than any sequel?

Oh, and here is the really ignorant jab: "it is using the same engine". God, can people get any stupider? Yes, it is using the same engine, just like almost every sequel does. Is Uncharted 2 using the same engine as Uncharted 1? Check. Assassin's Creed 2 using the same engine as AC1? Yep. And it goes on and on.

In any case, Left 4 Dead 2 does look better than its predecessor and it has been reported that Valve have made improvements to the engine. So again, how is this any different than the majority of exclusives out there?

This whole boycotting business boils down to two things in my opinion: PS3 fanboys who would literally do anything they can to try to hurt this game's sales or reputation and PC gamers who have been blessed with years of Valve's talent and generosity who are ready to turn their back on the company as soon as their expectations aren't met 100%. It's a good thing then that most PC and 360 gamers will be supporting this game and supporting Valve who through our support will continue to make outstanding games far into the future.

[DR0Z0]

Valve specifically promised DLC for Left 4 Dead 1, and millions of fans around the world have been waiting patiently for this content to be released. New maps, new weapons, monsters, characters, etc, would be easy to release as DLC since Valve has shown with HL2 and TF2 that this type of DLC is standard. The big question is; Why would Valve go against this tradition, lie to their fans, and decide to release a sequel instead?

The Answer: Allowing the mod community to work their magic, and releasing DLC for L4D1, would have given L4D1 a lifespan of 5 years+ (modest estimate). There is no need for a sequel so soon, and by simply announcing the game they have already diluted and torn apart a loyal and patient community. It's a huge slap in the face.

The Motive: Valve and Microsoft want to cash in on another triple A title. Bottom line. Regardless of the community's outcry, Valve and Microsoft are going to rake in millions with LFD2, and Microsoft got a new triple A exclusive to show off at E3. A lot of people are saying that Microsoft put pressure on Valve to announce LFD2 for this very reason, and this is a reason for concern for ALL gamers. If Microsoft is willing to compromise the integrity of Valve in order to put profit before quality; what else are they going to pull in the future? Is this just the beginning?

Disclaimer: I AM NOT A SONY FANBOY.

[frictionini]

because I don't want to waste money eat sheets

[devilhunterx]

haha. oh man. this calls for an epic BAM! video.

(too lazy to link it)

[rjackson1]

WOW! People are crazy but i will still buying left 4 dead 2! An it will still sell more than 1 million units!

[Sensoupie]

Damn eagle21, already trolling in 360/PC related topic? I thought you were out worshipping Ken Kutaragi in that little PS shrine of yours. And for the record, that ODST '$60 expansion' might just sell millions like its predecessors. If you're gonna troll, troll smart, or STFU. As for L4D2, I don't see anybody whining about the COD franchise that is recycled year after year.

[mcgrawgamer]

People are missing the point. the L4D2 boycott seems to focus more on them not wanting the community to split between the 2 games. If any of u are actual pc gamers and use steam you could have easily went to the steam groups site to see why they are boycotting the game instead of coming here making wild accusations and issuing personal attacks on valve, gabe, and MSFT.

Further proof that this site should change it's name from news 4 gamers to news 4 bashers seeing that's the only reason most of us come here any.......... to bash the competition.

[jarhead906]

In all seriousness, what is preventing Valve from just updating the first game? The 'improvements' onto L4D 2 that we know about aren't that large and could be done in a mild update.

For instance, I'm not going to buy this game until it's <= $15 considering that I just bought L4D through Steam (the superior version). For those of you stating that this petition has no affect whatsoever on Valve's decision process, you couldn't be more wrong.

As someone mentioned above, at the very least it will have Valve wanting to think twice about rushing a game out the door without much improvement because they know it's easy money (you can't really blame a company for that). What I think is going to happen as a direct result of this petition is that Valve will continue to support L4D while they support L4D 2. I firmly believe that Valve would have stopped supporting the first title completely if the petition didn't reach the size it has.

[DiffusionE]

L4D2 should be DLC expansion with the option of being $20 or $60 depending on whether you have the original game or not. It's way too early to release a sequel when it's only been like 6 months(?) or so.... unless, Valve has found a miracle dev group that can produce a very good quality game that doesn't reek of the first one, within 6-8 months....

[Rhezin]

I bet you it won't break a million. PEOPLE ARE still playing l4D1. Wayyy to early for a sequel. Look at the videos! It looks extremely similar to the first L4D. This should have been DLC, not a complete game for another $60. WHAT a rip-off, and to say you're going to buy it anyway, WITHOUT even seeing what new stuff they've added in (if any) just shows what a dumb consumer you are.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

I don't see the big deal. If Rockband and Guitar Hero can get away with, why not?

This must be a PC thing, especially when talking about mod support. I think for console owners, this could be good because it sounds to me that Gabe wants L4D owners play alongside L4D2 owners. That'd be cool.

Still I think Gabe is nervous about the boycott, 25,000 is JUST those on Steam who signed the petition. Then again he might just look nervous because he is always sweating.

[mebob]

"I don't see the big deal. If Rockband and Guitar Hero can get away with, why not?"

Because most rockband and guitar hero players are on console and most console owner are KIDS and CASUAL gamers who'll just accept what the developers feed them. Why else does EA/activison make so much money.

"This must be a PC thing, especially when talking about mod support. I think for console owners, this could be good because it sounds to me that Gabe wants L4D owners play alongside L4D2 owners. That'd be cool."

Errr where did you hear this?

"Still I think Gabe is nervous about the boycott, 25,000 is JUST those on Steam who signed the petition. Then again he might just look nervous because he is always sweating."

lol i have to agree to both.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

"We also agree with our customers that there needs to be an interoperability plan for players of L4D1 and L4D2, as multiplayer games are driven by the cohesiveness of their community."

That's what I take it to mean, I guess.