Valve Shuts out "Too Complicated" PS3

At E3 while checking out Left 4 Dead 2, Loot Ninja had a chance to talk to a few of the game's developers at Valve. Amongst questions about the game, they snuck in a bit asking why Valve won't develop for the PS3. It's not because they're a small studio, it's because the PS3 is too complex.

[Mindboggle]

Too Complicated = Too Lazy to learn

[Jamegohanssj5]

Haven't I heard this from Valve already? It's nothing new. Let's move on here. By the way I hope they don't think that over time developing games are going to continue to be just straight forward. Them just attempting to develop a PS3 game will introduce them to the future of developing. I don't like Valve games to be honest. I've never seen what's the big fuss aboot them to be honest. The only game they've done that's decent is Team Fortress 2. Half Life and Portal are overrated in my opinion.

TGSI

[40cal]

Just makes themselves sound and look stupid with comments like this. We don't have the capacity to learn something new is all this says to me.

[JOLLY1]

Then they make themselves look brilliant with their games.

[menoyou]

Ok, I am boycotting Valve. This is just unacceptable.

[saggyscrote]

They make themselves look very very silly

[Doctor_Doom]

We know that L4D don't the advantage over KZ2 or R2 in the graphic side but, I'm sure that it has a good multiplayer

[hay]

From Valve's site:

"Today, Valve is composed of just over 160 of the industry's best artists, programmers, and writers."

So... If they're the best, comparing all the indie devs and pretty much everyone that could make a game for a PS3, they must be godlike.

[raztad]

LOL

Valve is so funny. They produce high quality games but the fat dude over there is too lazy to learn something else. What Im saying? they are too lazy to update their ageing Source engine. Why to bother with the PS3, it seems they are making good business with MS. Sony has Insomniac and other guys making exclusive games for it. Let Valve do its stuff.

@bellow

I was one of those 1K. Btw, that is a way low number. It's fat dude's fault. He has been bashing the ps3 constanly and the EA port wasnt up to standard.

[irish-leprecaun]

im pissed with ea for not doing a second hand port of their games!! for the v. few ps3 owners that care! the orange box only sold about 1000,00 on ps3

[kwyjibo]

"Too Complicated = Too Lazy to learn".

No, "too complicated = too complicated". It's not laziness, the developers and designers are hard at work every f-cking day. Their priorities just happen to be different to your none-working, none-developing ones.

"Them just attempting to develop a PS3 game will introduce them to the future of developing."

Really? The "future of developing" is some weird bespoke cell architecture is it? It's about wasting time getting to know the ins and outs of a system with the lowest install base in the Western hemisphere is it?

No, the "future of developing" is about easy access to tools, high quality support, games as a service, and rapid prototyping. The "next generation", whenever that's going to hit, is also going to be symmetrical multicore processing, like this generation - because that's the way that PCs will continue to lead.

[stevenhiggster]

How do they even know it is too complicated? They passed development duties for the Orange Box on PS3 to EA!

Anyhow HL2 is still in my opinion the best FPS ever but Valve are clearly lazy/stupid.

[RememberThe357]

That is actually funny. How is he really going to say that? He doesn't need to learn the architecture, his programmers do. Stop b*tching and let them get their hands dirty.

It's funny that a lot of people throw out that "lazy dev" rhetoric, cuz this is basically it in a nut shell.

This is going to be used by fanboys for a long time to come.

lol

[Pika-pie]

They should rename the article . "Valve Says NO to Money"

[Jamegohanssj5]

I'd like my bubble back. Please and thank you.

TGSI

[ultimolu]

BULLSH*T.

Try telling that to Guerrilla Games, Naughty Dog, Tecmo, and all those developers out there who worked hard to understand the PS3's infrastructure and are now delivering some kick ass games.

I don't hate Valve but they're full of it.

[Kaneda]

hmm.. I wonder if they spent any real time working on L4D2 or just change a few things and just labeled #2.. and rip-off gamers!

[mrlahey]

@1

Agree 100%

[kwyjibo]

I'm pretty sure if Sony threw bucketfulls of money at Valve, a la Guerilla - that they'd manage a PS3 port. You could just as well ask why those guys don't release PC ports.

That said, I'd probably have even more respect for Valve had they just said, "Sony will need to pay us x amount for a port".

The "lazy devs" argument that I refuted above, and yet still repeated ad infinitum by guys like RememberThe357. Take a look at all the content updates Valve have been putting out, and the ongoing development of Steam. If there's one thing they're not, then it's lazy.

Really, what do you think they're doing now? They're hard at work, but I'm sure you'll just throw in a lazy "Gabe's eating" quip to throw everyone off your lack of real argument.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

You can blame it on the developers or you can take your fanboy goggles off and see the truth:

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

"So it's a kind of--I wouldn't say a double-edged sword--but it's hard to program for," Hirai continued, "and a lot of people see the negatives of it, but if you flip that around, it means the hardware has a lot more to offer."

http://news.cnet.com/sony-p...

"..., due to its architecture and limited support offered by the compiler, you can't expect to exploit this potential by just recompiling your current applications. Applications must be radically redesigned in terms of computation and data transfers. Computational bottlenecks must often be analyzed and addressed manually, and data transfers must be properly orchestrated in order to hide their latency completely under the computational delays." --Dr. Dobbs Journal, a magazine for programmers

http://www.ddj.com/hpc-high...

Let me see, we have:

- developers complaining
- the ceo of the company making the PS3 hardware official state the difficulty level
- magazines investigating the programming model suggesting it is difficult

but hey, everybody that says so must be lying. It is lazy developers and the problem is non-existant! /sarcasm

Nobody said it isn't powerful, it just takes a hell lot of more work to squeeze that power out of a niche architecture.

[ultimolu]

kwyjibo: I could care less about Gabe's weight. Doesn't concern me as a person. He can do whatever he wants with his body. I'm not implying that they're lazy but they are full of it.

IdleLeeSiuLung: And I could find just as many articles showing that other devs don't believe the PS3 is hard to develop for but I will only list two.

Tecmo

http://www.computerandvideo...

Capcom

http://www.gamegrep.com/new...

The PS3 is not hard to develop for *if* developers put their minds to it and learn new technology. How could they call themselves developers when they're not even willing to take the next step in developing games? Bloody hell, stop sticking with the old stuff and try new things.

Oh, and look what I found here.

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed...

Oh dear, a developer says that the PS3 is not hard to develop for, it just has to be learned?

Ya don't say!

[vhero]

OMG talk about admitting how lazy you are!

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

This isn't the first time Valve has said this, and since Valve does nothing but make AAA award winning games everytime, these words are powerfull. This also isn't the first time Sony fans have logged onto all their multi accounts to do rage drive by disagree's.

[kwyjibo]

The Gabe weight thing wasn't really directed at you - rather at the general lack of coherent arguments from others on that side of the fence.

Valve are willing to try new things, it just so happens that those new things don't coincide with the developing for the PS3.

[Nineball2112]

That's right Valve... just let someone else do it.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

Let's disssect that shall we straight from your links:

"It's wrong to say it's harder to code on the PlayStation 3, it's just something that needs to be **learned***," said Yann Le Tensorer,

"When we first got our hands on the hardware it took us a while to get back into the flow of working with Sony, because they way they do things is a little different," he explained. -- Yosuke Hayashi

The PS3 is not hard to develop for *if* developers put their minds to it and learn new technology. -Capcom

In all instances, developers are saying at a minimum it is different from standard programming practice. To me that is just a difference of one developer taking a positive attitude towards changes as opposed to another. As Hayashi said, difficulty is relative.

You can say one b!tches more than the other, but it doesn't exclude the fact that the Cell architecture is very different and new which means it is inherently is less understood making it more difficult to program for. Sony chose this approach, and as I said even the freaken CEO is saying it is a b!tch to program for!

To me that is overwhelming proof.

By the way, once you learn something it is no longer hard. It is the process of learning that is difficult....

[ChampIDC]

Why can't you people realize that Valve is and always will be a PC developer first and foremost? The only reason anything of their is on the 360 is because the 360 practically is a PC.

Stop complaining and just live with the truth. Crying and boycotting won't change anything. Valve's formula has been working for them for over a decade, and I can't see them changing now.

[ultimolu]

Stop forming excuses for Valve. Two years ago you could have said that yes...the PS3 was hard to develop for but in this day and age, things are simmering down.

How does Valve still say this after two years?

How could they call themselves developers if they're not willing to learn?

You can dissect whatever you want but my point still stands.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

You are right as times go by new things are old and common knowledge. However, instead of arguing with me you should just read that Dr. Dobbs Journal that details with code examples of why the Cell is harder.

Among other things, it shows you a factor of 20 increase in performance in certain type of calculations, in exchange for an "explosion" in code complexity. In the same example they state:

"While the algorithm in Listing One [code for a traditional Pentium IV] fits in 60 lines of source, our final algorithm on the Cell measures 1200 lines of code. "

Oddly enough, that is also a factor of 20 in code bloat. Things like this makes it hard to argue that the cell is more complex and difficult to program for. Keep in mind then that this isn't just about difficulty, but resources. How much longer does it take a person to debug 60 lines of code as opposed 1200? What about writing it or figuring out how to write it?

The power vs. resource is no longer a good value proposition to developers which we also seem to see as only first/second party developers take advantage of the Cell architecture that usually take their time doing so. Impressive result yes, but resource management, probably not.

[RKRigney]

I didn't see "too complicated" anywhere in that quote. You people are idiots. "nernerner Left 4 Dead looks like a PS2 game nerner." WTF? What retard would agree with that?

[Seraphim]

I'll agree with that...

However, how long and complicated was it to originally develop the Source engine that ran HL2? If I recall that game took half a decade+ to develop. Now all the sudden because it's not simple to continue using a dated engine and taking to the PS3 they don't want to develop because it's too complicated? Sounds like a lame excuse to me. If they were real coders they'd take the challenge and prove they're one of the worlds best. ;)

I'll have to agree with others who have said Valve is just lazy. They created this great engine years ago but now it's dated. They released L4D last year that was clearly dated, by looks, and was really half a game, imho. The campaign was nothing at all, an arcade game to suck up quarters but not a stand alone $60 title. A lot of people loved the online and can kinda see why. but personally I thought it was pretty weak and very uninteresting. Right now, to me, I see Valve doing nothing more than milking the momentum they've built in recent years and pumping out half ass games, or game (L4D) until sales dwindle. Then maybe they'll begin work on a new engine that puts everything to shame. Or maybe ole Twinkie Gabe will just call it quits with the fortune he's amassed from blind loyalists...

[Milky Joe]

Sorry, but how can anyone defend Valve over this? They make great games, sure. I really like TF2 and can see why people like Half Life, even if I didn't enjoy it as much as some. Portal was a lot of fun as well.

But when they say that the PS3 is TOO complicated, you just can't justify the claim. Back when the PS3 was new and dev teams were working on their first PS3 games, these comments could've been believable. Although they really layered on the hatred (saying things like PS3 is a waste of everyone's time etc.), you caould at least say that they sort of had a point.

Now though, with games like COD4 (identical on both platforms and similar style game to the ones that Valve makes), and with the PS3 exclusives we've seen, you just shouldn' be able to get away with saying that it's TOO complicated. Because everyone else seems to be getting along just fine with it. Complicated? Yes. Very complicated? Probably. TOO complicated? Not according to every other major developer on Earth, it isn't.

Valve should've bitten the bullet with everyone else back when the PS3 was introduced and used the time to get their heads round it. Instead they told everyone that it was a waste of time and that they wouldn't work on it and now it's too late. The excuse that it's Too complicated just isn't valid any more. Infinity Ward did a superb job with COD4, getting it to run smoothly on the PS3. It would've been difficult, but they did it. And now that they have got over the big hurdle and have a strong engine that runs on PS3, MW2 will be much simpler. This is the approach Valve should've taken. Instead, they stuck with Source and turned their back on millions of PS3 owners in the process.

To reiterate, Valve make good games, they were just too stubborn at a time when everyone else was getting their heads down and now it's too late for them.

[rockleex]

Valve can do whatever they want to do.

But, that doesn't change the fact that they themselves admitted they don't want to learn how to program for the Cell.

Does it matter that they don't want to learn? Not really, they have different priorities than other devs. Could they potentially break new ground if they learn how to efficiently program for the Cell? Probably.

Just look at what Guerrilla Games accomplished with Killzone 2: differed rendering, over 100 different light sources at the same time, the most advanced and dynamic post processing effects ever seen, etc. Not only that, they're currently working on getting Radiosity to work on the PS3... O_O

But just think about it, Guerrilla Games had just started making games after the PS2 came out and look how much they accomplished with the PS3. Now just imagine a company as talented as Valve trying to break new grounds with the PS3!

That being said, not all companies try or want to break new ground. Most companies just want to make great games.

[Jinxstar]

@1.10 - "valve have every rite not to develope ps3 but
im pissed with ea for not doing a second hand port of their games!! for the v. few ps3 owners that care! the orange box only sold about 1000,00 on ps3"

Maybe it was such an incredibly bad port done by a company other than valve with too many other good games competing with it out for the system people decided not to buy it... thats what happened to me. That and I am a PC gamer and anyone who wants to play a quality valve game should get it on PC anyway... Even though I had no idea how much of a headache it would give me(The engine they use really messes up my head)... Kinda sucks

[Ju]

@IdleLeeSiuLung

You take this 60 vs. 1200 line and want to generalize on it.

Well, it is not that trivial, I would guess. What you'd do in such a case is already there in those 60 lines.

In case of a testing environment you'd have to run n test case through those 60 lines and you run n test cases through those 1200 lines.

Now, the reason why the CELL code is 1200 line is, because it most likely contains explicit code for each use case, thus allows you to use unit testing for each section of those 1200 lines. That said, the testing can actually be easier, because you can isolate bugs for certain use cases which will not affect other parts. Its more like a loop unrolling. Sure, this takes time, but it makes code actually more modular then a condensed chunk of code which needs to be tested against a various cases.

It requires more thought into doing that "unrolling", and it also is not a requirement. Your reference does not imply, those 60 lines can't run on the CELL with the same performance as the P5, it just says, if you want to achieve 20x performance increase, you need to invest in SW technology and algorithms.

[GWAVE]

Well, I don't blame them for saying this! Valve hasn't made anything cutting-edge (in graphics, physics, or anything else) since the first Half-Life 2, so I can imagine that when they take one look at the likes of Killzone 2 and Uncharted, it WOULD be "too complicated" to compete with those titles.

[marinelife9]

Things Valve developers will never accomplish.

Beat a Ninja Gaiden Game

Bench press 225 lbs

Get the phone number of the hot girl who's hanging out with her friends.

[sarshelyam]

"We don't have the capacity to learn something new is all this says to me."

EXACTLY!!! Damn Valve and their outward laziness. I mean seriously, how can anyone look at this and think otherwise. Whining about having a different architecture than what you're familiar with. Imagine if they took the time AND found out they could do more...what would happen to Mr.Newell? He might just explode from the idiocy he exuded and turned into what we know as Valve.

[sorceror171]

@IdleLeeSiuLung - Kaz was really stupid to phrase things the way he did. He was practically begging to be misinterpreted.

Yes, developing for the Cell is very different - in some ways - than developing for the PC or the 360. And that definitely makes things harder. What he was trying to convey is that Sony prioritized power over simplicity of development. It's not that they tried to make developing for the PS3 hard, it's just that when given a choice between more power or easier development, power tended to win.

Now, that may have been a bad choice. But it's not the choice you seem to be implying that they made - and that those stupid comments sure make it sound like they made. (We may actually be in violent agreement here, but it's hard to tell.)

Sure, Valve doesn't owe Sony or PS3 owners anything. They can decide that the cost of coming up with new designs and development models outweighs the benefits of selling on the PS3 - and heck, they know their business and programmers better than I do. They may be right. But development models and techniques have been developed in the last few years - and it's clearly possible to do some pretty impressive things with the PS3. It'd kind of be nice if Valve maybe re-evaluated based on the current state of the art rather than what was current three years ago.

[Syronicus]

Why Valve, why come off as being reluctant to work with new and future proof hardware? Why not make a game that uses something more advanced than the Source Engine? Come on Valve, get your hands dirty and make the PS3 a game that shines.

[cmrbe]

they are not Lazy. Valve just see the PS3 as a threat. Thats it. PS3 promotes the cell which Valve sees as threat.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I didn't intend it to generalize the statement, but rather to illustrate a point that the cell's architecture can quickly change your code extremely complex for sometimes the simplest things.

Case in point this is a breadth first search (BFS) nothing complicated and very commonly used (in fact you learn this in the introductory CS course at UCB and in most other schools the datastructure class). This is extremely easy to implement and in my opinion shouldn't take 600 lines of code let alone 1200 even if you parallelize it as in this case!

You can always do smart software engineering to ease the process, but it is still vastly more complex to debug no matter what you do.

I can't comment on if you used the exact code for the Pentium 4 (I'm assuming you meant 4 and not 5) for the Cell, but I would venture to guess it would run slower. Otherwise you would have a damn great processor if it has all the x86 advantages combined with the Cell advantages with none of the x86 disadvantages at the cost of the chip.

@sorceror171
I agree, those were some stupid comments coming from an executive. I assumed that nobody intentionally complicates things (although it darn sounds like it).

Yeah, Valve knows their programmers/business best and it is clear the Cell have some nice advantages if you invest the time.

I just find it silly that many of these non-programmers call out developers as lazy with no knowledge let alone first hand experience. The Cell is certainly impressive in some areas, but it is a double edged sword. It's power doesn't come free.

[Rainstorm81]

What a joke of a dev company, Half life was never my cup of tea but I liked Team fortress and Portal. But L4D was one of the worst looking games i've seen for console and L4D2 looks to follow suit. (20.000 agree)

Valve is a PC dev studio nothing more nothing less.

When it comes to consoles both systems have far more talented devs than Valve. (Bungie, Guerilla Games)

[solar]

why learn a "complicated" system from scratch, put all those resources into developing, for a console? its all about MONEY. stick with what you know, make money fast, make Half Life 3. thank you and good night! Half Life > all.

and Bubble for you up there Idle. great comment.

[Sarcasm]

They don't want to learn the PS3. Fine. But they need to ditch that old source engine and make a new one already.

Don't tell me they're still going to use it for Episode 3, which would really be a shame.

They're stuck in the early 2000's it seems.

[MaximusPrime]

totally spot on Mindboggle

[littletad]

So what? Valve is biased in who they develop for and they aren't being coy about it. Their blunt and to the point. There are many developers who develop for a specific platform and they have their reasons. I don't see Xbox fans whining that Insomniac is only making games for the ps3. I only see ps3 fans complain about this. It's their choice to develop for whichever system they want, and OUR choice to buy their game or not.

[Montrealien]

Only these kinds of "useless" stories matter to N4G users that claim to be gamers....lulz

[popup]

Being the number one on a torrent site is not good valve!

[Real Gambler]

Dual core? Are you crazy, I've been programming one core all my life, forget it.
Hmmm, OpenGL, too complicated, use old routines
DirectX, nah, too complicated too.
Shaders? Nah, I don't want to learn new stuff.
No way I'm programming for SLI graphic cards... Are you kidding me? TWO GPUS???

Dang, Apple switched processors from Motorola, to PPC, to Intel, you name it, and still their O.S. is running great and look the same!

Windows can work with zillions of different graphic hardware, soundcards, motherboards, etc.

Dang if all those programmers would have said: Ouch, new hardware, too complicated, I'm not learning that, then we would still be using 8086 8 bit processors, and black and white screen with 80 letters across.

Valve can do whatever they want. If they don't want to learn new hardware, it's their choice. Sure enough though, I'm VERY glad that most devs are not like them. I love my games in color, thank you very much. And if possible, not just sprites!

[Jaces]

Yea, these other developers must be cheating or something cause I don't know how they make all these great games on such a complicated piece of junk.

/Sarcasm

[njr]

This all makes sense. "Its too complicated to develop on the PS3." "Its too big to be DLC.", Valve gets less respect everyday.

[PistolPumptMonk]

I bet every member of Insomniac is dying laughing at this complete bs excuse to cover up laziness. Insomniac produces an amazing game every year. Seem like that wouldn't be possible if it was so complicated now would it?

[The Mikester]

(wow Too Complicated = Too Lazy to learn)
so true man. the PS3 is hard to figure out but come on man get some help or something from the Sony Company.
god they're stupid....

[No Way]

Why are they to lazy? Cause they don't want to develop for every console?
I guess Insomniac is lazy, too? Because, they develop only for the PlayStation.

Let Valve develop solely for x360 and let Insomniac develop solely for PS3.
If you're going to complain about one company, don't exclude another..

[Yipee Bog]

i didnt get the first one, maybe this will be a chance to get into the franchise. would suck if i already had the first though

[jessupj]

Do you see insomniac whinging 'the 360 is too complicated to develp for'? Well do you?

No you bloody well don't, so please don't give me that excuse.

[andron]

Half-Life is one of my favorite games, but Valve has really fallen in respect with me over their anti PS3 campaign.

It's probably to appease MS and that leaves a sour taste in my mouth...

[yippie1234y]

i cant believe i stuck up for valve making lfd2...

its obvious they dont know what they are doing

noobs lol

[Tiberium]

"Ok, I am boycotting Valve. This is just unacceptable."

wait a second. Sony fans just can't be happy. They got fallout 3 and it was a crappy version without any DLC. It's obvious they will complain no matter what valve does. So if you want you want to play it get the PC version.

[No Way]

Fair enough. They do not. Okay, then, what is their reasoning?
Because they have a good relationship with Sony?
And? Valve has a good relationship with MS..
So, leave Valve alone, and let them develop for whoever they want..

[MISANISBAWSE]

Excuses excuses.

It's a bit weird how they're the only ones STILL saying this bullcrap.

Just take the so called "Complex" challenge or you might aswell not make games at all.

[TheHater]

Actually they are not they only ones saying that. The Developers of The Wheelman also claim the PS3 is too difficult to program for. But the Wheelman sucked major balls. Maybe developers should focus more on their game and not b!tch about the PS3 is hard to program for.

[MegaMohsi]

Major developers have been able to develop successfully for the PS3, Valve seems to be the only one not even giving the PS3 and its 23 million+ install base a second look. Capcom, Konami, Bethesda, Square, Epic, just to name a few have developed/currently developing PS3 games.

[Ju]

Wheelman...that's kind of ironic, because they use the UE3 which is actually identical between all the platforms.

[Pennywise]

So I guess being they are the only devs still crying, that makes them a bit retarded?

[50CALheadshot]

rick ross

[Hiruma Youchi]

more games for X360 Than.

[raztad]

More? in what sense? in any case the 360/pc are getting the games, not matter what. Actually is less games for the Ps3.

I hope when the inevitable HL3 is announced, Valve announces a new engine. I dont care if EA makes the port. Ironically enough EA has been pretty solid at doing PS3 games.

[RememberThe357]

But it's nothing to jump up and down for. I personally thought Left 4 Dead got old really quickly. Half-Life is the best shooter series ever, so I definitely give them props for that, lol but that's two games.

[raztad]

I cant help but wonder if some fanatics here actually read what is posted BEFORE to disagree, or they just hit disagree looking at the dude posting. Weird.

@357

I havent played all HL games so I cant agree with your comment but I do think HL2 got an awesome storytelling. The gameplay didnt wowed me though. I actually liked much more KZ2 gameplay and immersive effects/visuals.

That said, Portal is an amazing puzzle game.

[Pennywise]

Too complex to turn the PS3 on after Gabe spilled his Yoohoo on it.

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

EPIC COMMENTING!!!

[Simon_Brezhnev]

lol not surprised i wouldnt be surprised if we get our own version of a PSN game with 4-8 co-op killing zombies.

[MegaMohsi]

How can people still consider Valve so great when they aren't willing to take on a challenge like the PS3, they won't even try it, really sad and pathetic IMO.

[Unicron]

Because Valve is all about sticking with their old and tired tech. I love L4D, but cmon... L4D2 is still running on the same damn engine.

But hey, they want to give up sales, that's their choice.

[tdrules]

Because they have made genre defining games all based on a great inhouse engine that has lasted for a long time.
I only own a PS3, but I view it like this:
-Valve are PC developers natively, that the 360 architecture is similar is an added bonus and more consumers

-GAMING DEVELOPMENT IS A BUSINESS!! if they have worked out it would not be financially viable they will not do it. There's a reason Sony now gives subsidies to exclusive developers.

-Valve are quite small, adding another platform may add to the workload and affect the final product.

-FINALLY, please stop taking this so personally, they have made their choice and if you want to play their games that much you cab make an effort to get a 360/PC which I may consider

[Jamegohanssj5]

The source engine is old as the engine Yukes uses to make Smackdown! games. So that's 10 years old. It's a shame that the developer for Postal 3 are using the source engine as I am anticipating Postal 3.

TGSI

[Ju]

^^ BS. Orange box PS3 was done by EA inhouse. They wouldn't need to do crap, just license the tech and let somebody else do the work and start counting money. IF this would be a pure business decision, that's what it would be.

[Bnet343]

People consider Valve great because they put quality where it really matters, PC gaming. You think people in general will hate Valve if they shun out consoles? Please dude, go back to 1998 with HL1, that's where it all began. I doubt PC gamers care about PS3 or 360 even though 360 is getting a heap of the games. The only d*ck move they (Valve) made recently was L4D 2.

[ButterToast]

just get a PC. Valve is first and foremost a PC game developer, the reason their games are on the 360 is because its an easy port.

[potenquatro]

Don't get it twisted. Valve is without a doubt a PC game developer. Some fanboys make it seem like Valve suports consoles, but that's not true. 360's orangebox doesn't get all the updates and they take a long time to get them. Valve games on PC get updated weekly and they give you direct costumer suport. I ony buy Valve for PC though. But this is why it's important to make game developing accesible, to get more people on board.

[fiercescuba]

Does anyone think we will see Half Life 3 on the PS3??

[Kain81]

--

[TheHater]

Do PS3 owners cares for Half-Life?

[AKNAA]

Nope. well, I don't anyways..

[phosphor112]

I own a PC too, but I doubt I'd be able to run it well if it were on a new engine..that's why I hope. I have almost all Steam games because I'm an avid PC gamer, but costs are too high in this time of financial drought for me to upgrade my PC. So right now, I'm going to my PS3, where all I need to do is buy the game.

[raztad]

I care much more about HL3 than COD. However, KZ2 is the FPS king for me. I love KZ2 gameplay and immersion.

HL3 will probably use a revamped engine. Source is too old to be in the new major iteration of HL. Lets see if Valve still has some more tricks under its sleeve.

[StanLee]

Hold on there buddy. I care. I think we haven't seen Half Life Episode 3 as yet because it's a lot more difficult to chose a creative path to take the franchise and the story. You have to consider the Half Life universe and were you want the story and the gameplay to evolve to. Left 4 Dead is much easier to create a sequel for. It's just that simple. New maps, campaigns, a more tightly held together story, better A.I, additional weapons and better competitive multiplayer modes and you have a sequel.

[ultimolu]

Hater: I could care less. Just give me Uncharted 2, NGS2, Gran Turismo 5, God of War III, and White Knight Chronicles. I will be a very happy woman. ^-^

[Kain81]

cause they are lazy to programm a game for a new technology.
They will be crushed by other devs, even form the small Devs.
You cant use the same Tech for eternety, Times change so the Tech and if you cant Fallow than you will go down.

My OPINION

[ukilnme]

I think they will be ok. I don't see the PC market changing so drastically that Valve won't be able to make a living off of that. The console market is another story though. Who knows, the next Xbox may be easy to program for just like PCs are today.

[green]

How can they go down when their last game L4D sold over 2.5million copies and Steam is growing bigger by the day?

[Kurylo3d]

I have to disagree with your opinion... valve has switched their engine. They just take a long time to do it. And hl2 engine they keep making minor enhancements to it. They are milking it.. and making tons of money.. cause people buy their games more then most developers.

In either case... everyones always complaining how gameplay is more important then graphics... Valve is just following that... They make some fun games... and their engine can run on really slow computers... They have maximum exposure with that engine and only have to concentrate on making more fun gameplay... Not to mention the level editors and sdk they release with every game they make... makes for strong fans.

This being said im still boycotting the hell out of left 4 dead 2... loved the original but if left 4 dead 2 isnt 25 dollars, then im not buying it.... U gotta love their excuse... "too big for downloadable content" more like... "to much money to make to justify following our promises with left 4 dead 1 "

[Nelson M]

"Stuck in a Comfort Zone"
And it's not a Very Advanced Zone either
Hence the Quality of the Games which Suck compared to PS3 exclusives

[-MoOkS-]

LOL

Half-Life 1 and 2 > ANY ps3 exclusive.

[Simon_Brezhnev]

Half-Life 1 and 2 > all 360 games including your beloved halo

[talltony]

for confirming to us all that you are just another bot on this site.

[Model]

complicated like gabe newell's breakfast

[Sir Ken_Kutaragi]

...Eat Gabe Newell's CAKE...or you will be 'LEFT 4 DEAD'!!! ;-D

+ I Hate Valve and Gabe Newell. I will NEVER buy a Valve game ever again because of what Gabe Newell said about the PS3 in the past :-/

[TheOutsider]

Why would PS3 want N64 graphic like left for dead? They are all lazy just like that fat a$$ developer that works or them! this game and the 3shi**y can all be LEFT FOR DEAD!! Ps3 plays ahead not behind! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

[da720izcumin]

how DARE they?
i mean....the cell is the most powerfull thing in this world!!!!
it will destroy our EYEZZZZZ
when i was shopping @ the mall, i heard someone, who heard from someone else, who also heard from someone else that works for sony...
apparently, when the full POWER OF DA CELL is utilized...the ps3 hardware itself will start melting slowly...until nothing is left...
and then, we will be forced to find second jobs in order to buy another pstriple!!!!!
valve is just 2 damn lazy to exploit....

[evilmonkey501]

when the world goes mulithreaded multicore spu? Die? In this industry, if you dont keep up, you fail. I would never tell a customer anything is to complicated to do. If I cant set up that server, etc, I sure as hell learn to do it and quick, because if I cant, someone else is making my money.

[Raz]

Half-Life was great back in the 90's. Which is where this Valve seems to be stuck. Better grease it up and start turning, or it'll rust. O_o

[Stubacca]

I have a PS3 because it is the most powerful, reliable and useful console available. And it already has the finest selection of games.

I'd like Left 4 Dead, it looks fun. But I don't wanna play it on this damn PC. And I object to having to buy a 360.

So well done Valve. I won't be buying your games. I suppose most folk will just download L4D2 illegally for PC anyways.

[likedamaster]

Respect where respect is due. It takes a big company(and B*lls) to say, "Hey, we don't care to develop for that garbage platform(hypothetical, don't get psycho on me fanboys) so we're not gonna do it".

[Kill Crow]

Seriously, WHY should a company be forced to spend a HUGE amount of money in training and staff when it's already setup for the PC/360 environment?

You all talk about how WOW the Cell is, well it's ONLY WOW if you have the right staff and the right budget. Even then it's still takes an exceptional team a long time to come up with anything better than the 360 ...

So, why should a successfull company like Valve spend millions on all that when they know they won't sell as well anyway?

If PS3 was up there with the wii (where you all thought it would be end of 2008 remember) it would be a different story wouldn't it?

Say Lazy, but I say money talks !!!

[ukilnme]

I don't know what to say here. I'll still enjoy my PS3 and games from Valve. Just not together.

[Bnet343]

That's the same as me. PS3 and Valve games are like pizza and ice cream, they are both great, but just don't go well together.

[solidjun5]

I would've like to Valve work on the PS3, but hey I accepted it. I still like thier games and I can understand if they are under-manned and don't want to put in time they don't have to develop for the PS3. However, I thought Valve is sorta under EA? so why not let EA do it. I know EA sucked with the Orange Box. I have the game. Well it wasn't bad but I played it on the PC and the framerate was just bad compared to the PC/360 conterpart. But still, if they are business, EA can just port it and they would get money out of it and still satisfy their claim that they won't program for the PS3 because it's too complicated.

Anyway, it's all good. There's plenty of good games to go around anyway for all systems. So one not coming to the PS3 isn't going to make me lose sleep.

[evrfighter]

Nah Valve is it's own company. EA is a close business partner with Valve. At one point there was talks about EA buying out Valve but that fell through. Valve goes to EA when they want a title ported on a console. For everything else Valve uses steam. Which they own and use to publish their own games

[Hiruma Youchi]

yep Quality of games like CROSS EDGE IGN 3.5/10 only on PS3.

eh nelson?

[TheHater]

yep Quality of games like Beat'n Groovy IGN 2.0/10 only on Xbox 360.

eh Hiruma Youchi?
http://xboxlive.ign.com/art...

Sorry Hiruma Youchi, I couldn't help it. I remember reading this review last year and could not help but laugh how horrible this game was.

[Dante43]

This shows that the xbox360 is easier to work on hence easier to use full potential, on the other hand, ps3 is hard, hence will take a lot more time to unlock it full potential. Funny thing, so far they are par in graphic wise, but Xbox360 is already maxed out, ps3 ain't.
So yeah, ps3 will obviously end up winner in the long run.
Microsoft will obviously attempt to stop it by purchasing any stuff they can which will prove how insecure they are if it was PS3 vs Xbox360 with same game content.

[DreamcastFanboy]

And you guys have such great games like Bomberman: Act Zero?

[HQLocated111]

Don't forget Too Human, Ninja Blade, and Ochenbara ONLY on Xbox 360.

[rucky]

Wait how about the 360 exclusive Burger King games?

[Narutone66]

waiting for the Soulja boy game.

[scruffy_bear]

Here is Gabe on a day out

[manwich25]

Gabe Newell looks like Peter Griffen

[aldesko]

Here he is getting some rest and relaxation

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_h...

[SpoonyRedMage]

They have no obligation to develop for the PS3 so why do people keep asking?

@Kain81. Valve should be around for quite a while, the money they get off Steam alone must means they're quids in and the fact they're still using the same engine means costs are really low.

[silvacrest]

its there excusses that make people commment
if they were to say "we just wanna make PC/360 games" fair enough

but the excusses just arnt valid anymore, however, they were 2 years ago

[dachiefsman]

like other people have said before...this is nothing "new". Thus why get in a hissy fit over it.

If you really want to play the games, you will find a way.

[silvacrest]

thats not really an excuss any more
other developers were all in the same boat and managed to make great PS3 games

[whylocojay]

Valve = Mommy Help!!!

[deividpaulo]

I hate lazy people...this "fat man" from valve is just useless...better saying, the valve is useless...the PS3 don't need de valve's generics games...

[zaz12]

what will they do when the PCs move to a new tech?

[evrfighter]

They keep track of their player base's hardware buying habits with their quarterly hardware survey.

The majority of their steam users still own dated hardware and as long as this is the case. The source engine is here to stay.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

PC's always move to new tech.
Every 6 months the average computer
needs to do an upgrade.

[knightoftears]

Why couldn't they just leave it at "We won't develop for the PS3", instead of pwning themselves with the too complex comment...LMAO. Lazy devs have NO cause to complain about anything. If you put forth the effort you get the desired outcome, if not, you get what you deserve. I really doubt any PS3 owner will cry because Valva won't make games for the PS3.

[DreamcastFanboy]

Well what do you expect from a studio who has used the same game engine for what the last six years?

[ikral]

I guess that means Crytek is much more competent than Valve? O.K.
P.S. you need to be stupid not to figure M$ is paying for that kinda bullsh!t comments. In some way.

[Kurylo3d]

I highly doubt microsoft is paying for anything here... The source engine (the one they use for left 4 dead and hl2...) is not really optimized for multicore... and runs like crap on the ps3... They have a valid point, why build a new engine to make a game on the ps3... when they can just have fun doing what they love doing.. and release it on 360 and pc. Sony claims they made their console to develop for difficult on purpose... to weed out lesser games... i call bullcrap on that... I think sony just tryn to cover their butts cause they shot themselves in the foot by designing the console the way it is...

And I know some people will disagree.. please dont think im insulting sony... and its titles.. They have a lot of great games and a great console... But sometimes its the difference between making a game like crysis on the pc and releasing it at a time when no video card can run it the way its meant to run... and releasing a half life 2 game that can run on virtually any computer... You shoot yourself in the foot.

[ukilnme]

On the contrary I think you have to be stupid to think that MS is paying for these comments in any way. I'm sure you totally buy in when a developer says a game can only be done on the PS3.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

I don't think MS is paying anyone anything.

Valve is simply not up to porting to the PS3, nothing
wrong with that, It's a business decision.

however I think Valve should be honest though and not
say: "The PS3 is too Complicated" because this will start
many people talking.

The PS3 IS Complex, but using that line as an excuse to not
make PS3 games is very silly.

[BubbleSystemSuck]

LOL...

Now i know Valve is a mediocre developer...

[solar]

yep, mediocre alright. they only made, in critics minds, the two greatest FPS games in history. /rolleyes

[PiTCHBLaCK]

ID's Doom was the greatest FPS of all time.

[Claudinho69]

in other words, microsoft would spank us if we do anything for the ps3

[SKUD]

LOL. Who's your daddy!.

[TheMART]

Who blames them if it costs much, much more $$$$ to make a game on a platform that has a lot less units out and were the users don't buy as much games (check the attach rates)?

[TheHater]

Then why do companies make more money on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360? EA? Ubisoft? Konami?

[rucky]

lol still stuck in 2007 I see

[Bladestar]

"Then why do companies make more money on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360? EA? Ubisoft? Konami? " lol.... you can't be that ignorant...

This should be obvious... shouldn't?

First keep Konami out of the picture.. since Konami and Kojima refused to bring their biggest franchise to the xbox 360...

EA and Ubisoft for the most part PORT games to the PS3. That means that games are first made on the xbox 360 and then ported to the PS3.

Anyone with brain understand that the base/development platform will incur probably 60-70% of the project.

EA and Ubisoft games are first research, planned and coded on the xbox 360... They learn new things, play with ideas.. when something does not work they start again... The game art, level design etc is made.

For the PS3 ports all they need is code writers that will simply write code for the PS3 API. No level design, no game art needs to be made, no voice recording, no trial and error... just port. Company does not have to spend all that money they spend on making the xbox 360 version.

You Sony lovers are not that smart.. since this is obvious. You assumed that EA makes more money on game on the for unknown reasons and for the hell of it.. and completely ignore that the PS3 version cost a lot less to make.

This should be easy to prove. I will give you the opportunity to prove it. Can you name the various EA and Ubisoft games where the PS3 version sold more than the XBox 360?

If you can prove that these Games are selling more copies than the xbox 360.. then you are right. Otherwise it just means the obvious... the Xbox 360 version is subsidizing the PS3 version.

[tehReaper]

Bladestar, give up. Theres no convincing idiotic fanboys. They live in their own little world where teh cell is worshiped and the PS3 actually sells more games.

It's one thing to sit there and be bias, but completely another to ignore facts and lie out their ass.

I can show my fanboy side, actually I do all the time. Everyone eventually does because everyone has features or games they enjoy more. The thing that makes me a gamer is that I at least appreciate all three companies for giving us great games and consoles. To completely ignore reality, well..that's a fanboy. And obviously anyone who says the PS3 outsells the 360, is desperate. There might be a day when that happens, but shouldn't we wait until that day comes instead of claiming it prematurely?

[TheHater]

If you were referring to me, then you need to read what I wrote. I never stated that PS3 outsell the Xbox 360 or sells more games than the Xbox 360. I wrote that Companies make MORE MONEY on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360.
Do I know why they make more money on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360? NO, I don't know and I am not about to guess why neither.

[Serg]

Dem0n: You should start learning something basic, like reading.

Bladestar: Production cost is covered by sales, sales are combined across platforms, whether a company ports a game to the PS3 or the 360 is completely irrelevant, they make more money on the PS3 because some games the companies have produced have sold more units on the PS3, or Microsoft has some fees we don't know about. Though Konami is a no brainer due to Metal Gear Solid 4.

The way you described it would mean that only the games sold on the 360 are covering for production cost, you need to think that through again because it doesn't make the slightest sense.

Money is money after all, money gained from selling games on the 360
is the same you get from selling PS3 games, you know?

We can only speculate on why they gain more money from the PS3. All we have is a statement from these companies telling us they do, but we lack the "why". I only know production cost is not it.

By the way, Burnout: Paradise was developed on the PS3 and then ported to the 360 which, as we know, was published by EA. And I'm not sure on this one but IIRC Mirrors Edge (published by EA) was also developed on the PS3 and then ported to 360 and PC, but as I said, not quite sure.

[bujasem_89]

no im really gonna speak seriously now or type what ever but doesent gabe or the director of Left4dead remind u of someone??? no no really i swear the first time i saw his pic on N4g i was like OMG!!! RUN BOOMER!!! LMAO XD seriously check the resemblence its like he hooked himself up with those little motion capture light things and BAM boomer

[San Frandisco]

all valves games look the damn same.. so pathedic,L4d 2 looks EXACTLY like L4D..
Uncharted 2 looks way better then Uncharted 1.

fvckin lazy fat ass devs.

[rupi]

HAHAHHAHAHHA! WOW, no one who owns a PS3 gets to play L4d. That sucks so much because L4D is one of the best f**king games I've ever played, hahaha

[rucky]

I own a PS3 and I get to play it on a much superior PC version.

[Rockstar]

Is L4D good?....Yes
One of the best you've ever played?....you need to play more games

Edit: Just for the record, I think left 4 dead is a lot of fun with 4 player co op but the same can be said for many games with the right friends.

[Dante43]

PC version of the same game released on xbox360 is usually better then the xbox360 version.
ALso, i played Left 4 Dead at my friend's house, and it was a mediocre game, i had way more fun playing COD5: Night Of the Undead then Left 4 Dead.
Graphics were horrible, no aiming system, pointless storyline,etc.

[rupi]

wow, all you morons who think Left 4 Dead is 'mediocre' are just moronic. When you get a 4player co-op going with friends who all have mics, it is one of the most awesome gaming experiences ever. Just for the record i've played a lot of games and L4d is one of the best, which i've and had the most fun on. SERIOUSLY, COD WAW ZOMBIE IS FU**ING S**T COMPARED TO L4D LOL

[WildArmed]

L4D isnt by FAR the best game i'd play.
I'd give it a 9/10, but still the game doesn't even pop up on my top 50 games list.

L4D had 1 amazing thing: Versus mode.
Thats the only thing i loved about it
oh and btw, PC > 360.. so i dont really need a 360 to play L4D.
Ps3+PC are the ultimate combo 4 a gamer. (note: i didnt say 4 a hater)

[talltony]

left 4 dead is a good game but it can get really really boring. left 4 dead 2 is more of the same gameplay with more blood!

[Obama]

I don't need a 360 to play most of the 360 exclusives, while you bots can't play 99% of our ps3 exclusives since you own the superior ps3.

[tehReaper]

There it is again, the old "I can jst plyz it on myz PC!!OMG!!!ITS NOT EXCLSUSSSSIVE!!" card.

Fanboys just can't wait to play that card from their hand.

Microsoft games, are Microsoft games. No matter what you claim.

[Serg]

Dem0n: Double check, Halo is a Microsoft game, Left 4 Dead, NOT a Microsoft game.

And what's wrong with playing the games on a PC? They do come out on PC you know, I've played Gears 1 on PC, and will play Gears 2 on PC because it will probably come out on PC in November, a year later just like Gears 1.

[hatchimatchi]

L4D really isnt that great of a game. Im a fan of half life 1&2 but L4D just feels extremely dated and it really doesn't offer that much. The campaigns are short and it's just not that entertaining.

[dogmeat eater]

If the PS3 was complicated as some people say it is. You wouldn't see games like KZ2. The best graphical game to date. All I want is half life 3. Not those crappy half life 2 episodes. Also a new engine would be nice. Valve is just being lazy.

[nebu1ou5]

It is pretty sad that the people who make the Hannah Montana game on PS3 are by default, better game developers than Valve. I think that Valve need to think long and hard about what their comments say about them as both game developers and creatives as a whole.

[-MoOkS-]

I don't understand why they won't put the time in to develope ps3 games, they are losing out on money by excluding the ps3 audience.

This doesn't make Valve a bad dev though.....they did make 2 of the best fps's of all time, Half Life 1 and Half Life 2.

Im sure PC and 360 owners are happy though :)

[Ju]

MoOks, what happened to you ? Got a PS3 or what.

I agree with you, though.

Its just comments like the ones they make in the direction of PS3 (owners) was trouble some from the start (like Gabe's comment "PS3 is a waste of time" [ and Sony should take it off the market and start over ].

While they haven't delivered a single PS3 product yet, they still come up with those stupid comments alienating PS3 owners even more. That's just stupid.

They could simply say, "we do PC" and XBox is easy because we basically recompile for that box.

No need to take a side kick on to the PS3 on every occasion.

[Persistantthug]

We demand you return Mooks at once!

[Pennywise]

Mooks needs bubbles.

[Snake Raiser]

Yes guys mooks did get a PS3. He even complimented Valkeria Chronicles IN THE OPEN ZONE!!! (of a different article.)

[kewlkat007]

Does anyone here really believe Valve thinks the PS3 is to complicated? Think about it..

The guys have a preference for whatever reason they might give....but video game industry paparazzi continue to ask the same questions.

We know valve is about quality and not about superiority technical feats. If a game like L4D barley scratching the surface for best tech, can come out and reap awards. I don't think these guys care much about Super Duper Technical Hardware.

Too hard is just fanboy bait. Sony has many devs that prefer to develop exclusive for them but they are not hounded at every interview though. Like I stated, PS3 only fans barley accept multiplatform games, without going through the comparisons and the PS3 inferior assumptions.

[Camper]

FAT=LAZY

[divideby0]

to each their own...after the L4D2 mess, Valve is not on my radar anymo

gives Valve more time to put out game sequels in less than a year from its prior release and gives Gabe more time for pizza

[Hiruma Youchi]

lol Valve is a bad Dev now? The guys From Orange box? The guys from Half life are now bad devs?????

Because they dont develop for PS3 they are bad Devs now?

Insomnic dont develop game on XBOX are they Bad devs for that reason?

you guys are hypocrites OMG!

[Kantraz]

Valve just said that they aren't gonna develop for the PS3 because it is too complex, which a lot of companies have proven it isn't.
And don't bring Insomniac into this, Insomniac has only developed for Sonys consoles, not because they think the 360 is too complex, but because they uses the console with the most challenge...

[gamingisnotacrime]

Valve is saying: Since the PS3 is too complicated, we are not gonna take a bath and get to work because we dont want too (or cant do it due to lack of talent)

They are not bad developers, their actions are dissapointing and makes them look bad

[jmare]

Not because of the idiotic things they say, not because of the aging Source engine, not even because of the mess over L4D2 (which is getting warmer).

Valve can and will say whatever they want. It's retarded though because eventually the things that they complain about the PS3 will start to affect PC development. Multiple core processing (symetrical or asymetrical) is not going to go away and Valve will evetually have to grasp the new technology, but I digress.

The reason Valve is a bad dev is because they start episodic development for HL3 and take just as long to make the episodes as it takes most studios to do a full game, if not longer. And the final straw that pushed it over the edge? Debuting L4D2 instead of giving us Episode 3, or God-forbid, a real HL3. L4D2 may be a kick-ass game but what any true fan of their's really wants is more HL. That is why Valve sucks big fat donkey balls.

[pwnsause]

LMAO, Valve, nuff said...

[sjaakiejj]

Ps3 too complex haha, coming from a development who has a programmer who loves to call himself the best, but he says ps3 is too complex, while Naughty Dog gets results there that I haven't seen on any other platform besides PC? I'm sorry, but that's just lazy, too lazy to learn how to develop for a different platform. Guess that same attitude got Gabe fat in the first place, lol.

[DanSolo]

Funny how its too complicated for them, but plenty of other devs manage just fine.

Shame though as I would definately have got L4D the first day out as I like zombie games. Still theres a sh!tload of other games coming out for the PS3 so I'm sure I won't miss it.

[Kantraz]

Isn't this the comment that Gabe has been using since Orange Box, and all of it bugs?
Nothing new here really, Valve is all about using the same old engine, and not do any challenges...

[Gamer_Politics]

Valve are great devs.......

[dachiefsman]

yea if you're a GAMER!

[dogmeat eater]

to port pong to the ps3. They would say its to complicated lol.

[koehler83]

Okay seriously..

Nocturnal Initiative: http://nocturnal.insomniacg...

LEARN SOMETHING!

[ssbains]

I vote that we boycott Valve altogether - there are better games out there. Developers worth their salt like Capcom, Namco, Tecmo, Infinity Ward have demonstrated that they can port to PS3 and with outstanding results.

[Droid Smasha]

its ok valve you can say you hate the ps3 no one is blaming you.

[TheTruth89]

incompetent developers (not on pc btw)

[BYE]

Valve makes fun games, but from a technology standpoint, they're just average.

- Far Cry and Doom 3 graphics were miles ahead of Half Life 2, even though these games came out 3-7 months earlier.
- Left 4 Dead runs in nothing more than a slightly improved source engine, which came out in 2004 with HL2.
- Team Fortress 2 looks unique, but doesn't push anything either.

So, that statement really isn't surprising coming from Valve.

[Bladestar]

the PS3 is "Too complicated" to what it's worth.

Valve is one of the best game developers out there... so, the whole "Lazy" argument do not apply to them.

If you think otherwise please named what Sony first party game made FPS more influential than Counter Strike and Half-Life. Please go one and name them.

To understand where Valve stand one must go back at their history... They are not known to support consoles since they are primarily PC developers. You do not see Nintendo wii gamers complaining. I don't recall people complaining for the lack of Saturn or PS1 or PS2 support.

But why do they have to support the xbox 360 then? Well... that has a lot to do with the fact that the xbox 360 and PC game development are practically the same. Even directX API is the same. So, Valve do not have to change who they are (PC developer) to make a game on the xbox 360 unlike if they make a game for the PS3 which would require them to hire PS3 developers and get into a whole new ball game.

Not to mention that Once a PC developer always a PC developer... the same goes with the xbox 360... the next XBox will without doubt have the same PC like architecture and same DirectX API. Valve does not have to re-learn every time a new console comes out. The PS1 had a completely different API, CPU and GPU than the PS2... and the PS3 had a different CPU and GPU... because of this Playstation developer have to re-learn all over again... re-write their APIs...

this is the reason why PC developers and 3rd party developers had so many issues initially supporting the PS3... APIs that worked very well on the PC and the xbox 360 like Unreal Engine would crap out on the PS3.

Valve is and want to stay a PC developer... you can't blame them for wanting to keep away from focusing on a complete different platform.

So, the bottom line is...the XBox 360 is too similar to PC to ignore and the PS3 is too different than PC to bother.

Valve is a great developer because they work within the environment that they know they can deliver quality. Nothing personal... it's business.

Funny Sony loves are all over Valve because they want to keep away from making games on the PS3... even if they have good reasons.... but those developers that make games on the PS3 and ignore the xbox 360 for none... are all ok.

@EDIT:

@ Brainless dude below: "Look at KZ2 or Uncharted 2 the best looking game at E3." lol! Are you seriously comparing Counter Strike and Half-life who are instant classic and even after year people still play with those games with Makup that no one will be playing in 1 year? You Sony leg humpers are graphic whores and thats all you can possibly talk about, "best looking".. because that all they are.

Counter strike was released in 1999 and is still used in big game event tournaments. Kill Zone 1 was superior than most games graphically and no one cared or talk about it. Kill Zone 2 only sold a miserable number of copies compare to Counter Strike. More people play counter strike today than Kill Zone 2.

@skv007 - "They refuse to move on with time. " lol! are you kidding me? Valve is already working on PC games that are using Multi-core 2-3 GB of ram and DirectX 11 which in case you did not know can produce better graphics and physics than anything possible on consoles. So, what do you mean moving with time? if the PS3 is frozen in time compare to the PC hardware coming out. Please explain that.
How can making a game on the PS3 be "Moving in time" who hardware is already obsolete compare to the nvidia, ATI, new CPU and faster ram that are now coming out?

Valve has never being a console developer... they are a PC developer and the only reason why they support the xbox 360 is because of the similarities between the PC development environment so why the hell not.

Here we have sony leg humpers trying to portray Valve a bad and lazy developer yet the games they've made are all classics and pass the test of time and being played in many cases for many years after their release. comparing them with games like Kill Zone 2 who are not even capable of selling 2-3 million copies let alone be used in tournaments. Please! lol!

[dogmeat eater]

Jesus. Its not even worth my time to see what you have to say.

[WildArmed]

Umm.. dat kinda dumb.

Just coz they made great games, they can still be lazy.
They refuse to move on with time.
360 is a 'dumbed down PC' as devs call it.
So they r effing lazy.
They dont bother learning new stuff.
If you make a good ps3 game, then decide to make 360/PC exclusives.. atleast then i wont call em lazy. Thats just a business choice. so far valve has shown no competence on anything other than PC and a 'dumbed down PC'

[WildArmed]

if you say 'too complicated' it implies that you do not have understanding of it.
If you dont have understanding of it and yet the rest of the world (dev world) does.. then you are simply being lazy and not trying.
I dont see any other way 2 spin it.
Xbox fanboys can die trying to protect Valve, but i call it as i see it.

[Knightofelemia]

I'm glad Valve does not develop for the PS3 I have played Left 4 Dead on the 360 and it is very glitchy frankly Valve can stay where they are.

[aldesko]

Valve should just focus all their attention on making the best PC games possible, then contract out any console ports they want to make to competent development studios.

I have a very hard time believing Valve, one of the most talented game development studios today, has trouble porting a game to PS3.

[Jacobite]

Can't see why PS3 owners are bothered, most have a PC or 360 anyway.
I enjoy playing valve games on the PC, so I'm not going to lose any sleep if I never see any of their games on my PS3 lol Orange box say
anymore (I know EA did it).

[Magna Farta]

Valve has become a running joke to me. I laughed when the L4D2 announcement blew up in their faces, because it's basically an expansion pack being marketed at a sequel.

[KR1ST0F3R]

valve are completely showing themselves up. they are admitting they do not have the talent/ability to make games for a system that everyone else is making games for.

as someone mentioned earlier, by default this makes the hannah montanna devs more talented than valve.

[dogmeat eater]

true dat

[dogmeat eater]

There to lazy to develop or try to use a different engine. The source engine is older then my grandma. So much for the PS3 being complicated. Guerrilla and naughty dog seem to be having amazing results with the PS3. Look at KZ2 or Uncharted 2 the best looking game at E3. Its easy to tell valve is just being super fat and lazy. But look whos leading them.... the fat Mcdonalds addict Gabe Newell. What ever. I'm not going to shed a tear over valve.

[gamingisnotacrime]

Those $60 are reserve for the many exclusives and AAA multiplatforms.
They wont be missed

[TheTruth89]

They are UNABLE to develop game on NON-SIMIL-PC-ARCHITECTURE, 360 is a PC-Like architecture.... so

they are good for PC/360 only...

[PotNoodle]

Honestly, valve are some of my favourite developers out there and even though i own a PC that is more than capable of playing valves games and a 360 and wouldn't really think about getting a valve game on my PS3, it just disappoints me that they are not supporting their fans on the PS3 too.

Though, i don't think valve would of even started making console games on a scale they are if it wasn't for the xbox & xbox 360 being so similar to a PC to develop for.

[Kamikaze135]

Basically they're a bunch of lazy bastards, too lazy to learn new programing? Isn't that what they do for a living? Boy, I can't wait till the new PS and Xbox come out. They'll probably run crying to Nintendo with Left 4 Dead 5 and have it sell like crap since Nintendo still won't care about hardcore online gaming by then, lol.

[pwnsause]

Valve stating that the PS3 is too complex to develop for means that they are lazy. its been 3 years since the PS3 launched, and there are lots of developers that has gotten their act together to develop for the PS3, even bad devs such as EA and UBISOFT. All Valve has to say is that they wont develop for PS3 because they believe that they can make more "profit" on Microsoft platforms, not because its too complex, that argument has been thrown out since last year in the first half of 2008.

[CSM-101e]

apparently no picnic to code for at first. But it's not like C++ is elementary school stuff, so it's all relative.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Well they are a small studio. Maybe financially it doesn't make any sense to them. I still find it lame, but the world is harsh and they are a business and they're trying to make money.

[bjornbear]

I mean, just because you make great games doesn't mean you can be so close minded. The PS3 is not "complicated" to develop for, i'm sure, its jsut different. We havent heard any other developers except Valve (Microsoft slaves) and Wheelman's dev (crap?) so i'd say its different, not much harder.

And if its so complex, then LEARN, thats what other dev are doing and they are achieving far more than Valve are...

And btw, Portals is one of my fav games ever, and i commend Valve for it...but they didn't come up with the portal technology. When 3D realms were playing with Prey, they had it already well developed...so Valve didn't revolutionise anything, they just picked up an abondoned idea and polished it, VERY well.

[Marojado]

I don't think it is completely to do with complexity. Valve and Microsoft enjoy a close relationship, Gabe was at Microsoft for 13 years and his work there was very lucrative for him. Microsoft gave him the opportunity to do what he does now essentially, and I don't think he would forget that.

[redsquad]

Then they should behave like adults and say that instead of this 'too complex' crap.

[bjornbear]

Totally agree

I've been seeing many articles of dev.s saying extreemly silly and immature things lately...

Unfortunately ALL of those seem to somehow link back to MS related devs. Hope its not a growing trend =/

[WeeMadBadger]

Maybe they don't think its worth the effort? Valve made games for PC, then they branched to XBox; their in-house engine is probably not multiplatform, as say, Unreal engine is. So, if I were to bet, I'd say they simply don't think its worth the effort atm and they're using 'too complicated' as an excuse. It sounds better than 'we can't be bothered'

[CSM-101e]

I'd personally rather appear to be a man with misguided principals than an idiot.

[KillerKahuna]

Have any of you guys seen inFAMOUS ?
Yes, that PS3 game that got developed by SuckerPunch...

Guess with how many people they made that game ?

Ye exactly, just over 50 people.

That is very small compared to other teams that go to 400 (Ubisoft montrail Assassin's Creed II).

And to say that it's to complex ...

They are just lame developers scared of a challenge and very very lazy.

Lame excuse if you ask me

[dogmeat eater]

http://media.photobucket.co... thats valve in a nutshell.

[redsquad]

I'm sorry, but no matter how good Valve games are, that statement is downright unfair and a little absurd.
When a game like UNCHARTED 2 can look so stunning, this is a lame excuse. If it was so 'complex' then it would be complex for everyone...

[hoo_mook]

Valve is mainly a pc game developer. They are also one of the only truly independent devs out there.

Imagine this scenario:
Sony introduces Valve to a great piece of gaming hardware. It has a uniquely powerful processing engine but needs to be programmed differently. Valve says "But that's not the way we program." Sony's response is "Well it should be the way you program."

If i was an independent dev like Valve i would have said "fcuk u" to Sony too. I don't want anybody telling me how to do my job when i'm already very successful.

All that being said. Money is hard to resist. A platform offering millions of users has got to be tempting.

[clintos59]

I give more credit to studios who arent even well known studios but are willing to learn the ps3 architecture. And remember all the hype for Left 4 Dead? I'll tell u right now I purchased that game and felt robbed. The game just didnt live up to its hype, heck I aint even a huge halo 3 fan but halo 3 was alot funner then left 4 dead.

Oh and please work on a new engine because RE5 sh!ts all over your engine. Done wit my 2 cents or was that 3? lol. :)

[MetalGearBear]

Gabe is sleep, work, and Ton of Eat!!!!!
repeat it.

[Rhezin]

just goes to show you how much of a noob the valve team as a whole is. I'll pass on L4D, I'll wait for the TRUE zombie game that is Dead Rising 2.

[solsub]

I can't believe that such a renowned dev studio like Valve could use such a lame excuse. Does that mean that nearly every other big studio is much more competent? Does it mean that Valve will forever be stuck in the past with outdated tech, refusing to accept change? I certainly hope not.

However, it is their prerogative to do what they wish. They will not go down, but they will lag behind other devs if they maintain this mindset.

At least this puts this "MS paying them off" nonsense to rest.

[ZEEBO4LIFESTFU]

valve just understands that noone plays ps3 games.

mabye its cause all ps3 fanboys are on this website all the time, complaining when they dont get games when a company dosent care about money.

[kurochi]

um.... your sentence made no sense what-so-ever....

[bjornbear]

PS3 fans don't play games, they play masterpieces, works of digital entertainment art.

You on the other hand, play with your self when you get off saying stupid trolling comments like these all the time. The open area is ----->...however, since you were dropped at birth, and can't comprehend that, I'll resort to the second solution created for people like you: the report button =)

Valve aren't being constructive at all with this mentality, and it's only going to hinder their evolution as a gaming company. If you can't understand that...I'm sorry.

[CobraKai]

Then they will know that they don't need Valve

[paracardium]

Admitting that they're incapable of learning is one thing but not putting a effort is another. Valve is a embrassment to the gaming community now... even though they were a reputable dev once they are no more.

[Veneno]

just come out and say "Microsoft payed us for exclusivity"? We already know. No need to lie.

[aldesko]

Gabe has a pretty substantial history with MS, so I think he's just extremely loyal to them. Still, they should just say that instead of saying the PS3 is a "disaster" or "too complicated".

It's like how Insomniac has a history with Sony and remains loyal, except they don't bad-mouth MS and come off worse than N4G commenters.

If anyone has trouble porting a game to PS3 anymore, they're incompetent. I know Valve is capable of doing it if they wanted to.

[kurochi]

by Valve's logic, me taking calculus 2 is too complex so I would just avoid taking it even though we know that calc. 2 is essential for a future engineering degree... WTF? What a lame excuse.....

[-EvoAnubis-]

Explain that to Team Ninja, or Kojima, or Criterion, or Infinity Ward, or any other third party dev team that has made a kick-ass game on the PS3. You can't claim to be the best and shun new technology simply because it's different than what you're used to.

Do you think that making a 360 game is the same as making, say, a NES game? Of course not; things changed. Developers who actually cared stepped their game up with each new generation, not just said "it's too hard" and gave up.

Valve has no respect from me, becuase this is just BS. "Too complicated." Whatever.

[Expy]

Valve... lol

[housegroove76]

gabe is just too busy stuffing is fat f*ck face instead of taking some time out of his snack break to learn something new.

[Veneno]

He gets paid in cookies.

[badbond1]

L4D, bottom line, is an average game. I have a wii, ps3, pc laptop, macbook laptop and I still won't buy it. I'll stick to ps3 exclusives and better games on my PC than shooting zombies!

[osmarduban]

their excuse is cuz theyre not talented enough to develop for the ps3 lol

[Mr_Luke]

I guess Naughty Dog guys think the same.
But i don't see the problem, they don't want to program = ppl buy other games on PS3 and not theirs. Too bad, but there are a lot of other great games anyway, so i don't see why we have to complain.

P.S. it's nice to see how very interesting articles have 1-2 comments and 0° while these flamebaits have xxxxx° and 99999 comments.
I start wondering to myself if ppl here like playing or if they prefer the CW =O

[Dick0]

when you can buy 2 xbox arcaDe

[dogmeat eater]

When you could just get a PS3. Durp.

[Cajun Chicken]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEXCUSES!!!

[naiku]

too complicated my ass... should have found a better excuse. all of them are lazy, thats the reason behind. not "too complicated"...

[cliffbo]

we shouldn't be knocking people who are not as intelligent as other devs... really, it's so uncouth

[naiku]

not as intelligent? what are you talking about??? how about other 99% of devs that develop on PS3??? so you are saying they are smarter?? no, its M$ dumb money games with valves laziness and everything "straightforward" mind...

[Javier19]

Lol you cant blame them.

Xbox 360 is pretty much the same as developing for PC, so its a real easy process for them.

PS3 is just opening a whole bucket of crap for a PC orientated Dev team, and besides that, sorry i just cant see PSN allowing for Left 4 Dead, i can imagine it now, constant lag and random disconnects for no reason..

[Ripyealip]

Warhawk>every Xbox360 exclusive

[Soldierone]

Sony offers lessons to learn the console, fact 1. Fact 2 sonys first party studios are more than willing to help with coding, Insomniac even releases their engines code to help better understand PS3. Fact 3 valve is run by ex MS eployees....

Its funny that ID software has no problem anymore developing for PS3. Or any other company for that matter. Valve = lazy = i wont be buying a single one of their games till they make a PS3 game, be it on PC or 360. There is nothing wrong with outsourcing to EA either, Valve just sucks i guess. Didnt know they were that terrible at making games....

[Enigma_2099]

PCs are constantly evolving... you mean to tell me that you can constantly figure those out, but the PS3 is beyond you?

I think I figured out where the rest of Microsoft's cash went.

[josephayal]

'VALVE'= WORST developers IVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE

[solar]

you must be 7 years old then....

[Socomer 1979]

It's not like they are evolving thier games or pushing the genre.
It's simple games for cheap bastards. The only reason people buy them is because
The American media sells it. It's basically a nerd fest online too with the geekiest losers
In America. Not my kind of crowd. Rather play resistance 2.

[Jdoki]

If Valve don't have the time/resources to learn the PS3's architecture that's fair enough. They can do what they want (even though I disagree with their decision).

However, there's not a programmer I know in the world that doesn't relish the chance to try something new and exciting in coding. Learning new stuff, and pushing the envelope of code is why most programmers do what they do. So to state that the PS3 is 'too complicated' is doing a disservice to the skilled people coding at Valve.

[chidori666]

too complicated for:

only morons of this crap softhouse....

[DNAgent]

They still use their same old outdated engines for their games too. Valve likes to take the easy way out (they probably won't even play any games if it didn't have a very easy difficulty). That company likes to use the sugar packet solution where instead of fixing a wobbly table, they put a sugar packet under one of the legs.

[Marty8370]

Valve's loss. Only supporting two of the most pirated platforms(PC, 360) this gen is seriously stupid. Considering all other devs that make games for PS3 as well as other platforms, say the PS3 has generated the most profits for them.

[evrfighter]

the most pirated platform out just had a game which simulates people socializing outsell kz2 in one week than what kz2 did in a month.

[mcgrawgamer]

#1 the title is misleading
#2 Gabe wasn't interviewed here a game designer at valve was.

Here's the direct quote
"The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform. [...] I didn’t come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun."

Basically what I got from that is this. Valve makes games for people to enjoy, they don't make games for fanboys to scream at one another my game is better than your game.

What's really sad is this. Had Valve not said anything about the ps3 they'd still be hated because they don't make games for the playstation brand. The guys at valve talk trash that's why so many of the sony faithful hate them. No one at Bungie, Lionhead, or Rare has said anything negative about playstation or the ps brand but they are hated on just as much. Why? because they don't make games for the playstation brand

I bet most of the youngsters here didn't even know who Valve was before the orange box and L4D....

[aldesko]

You raise some good points, but I've been a huge Valve fan since half-life, and I'm disappointed someone from Valve said that. Seriously, they're better than that.

So he doesn't want to "sweat bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform"? Well, that's what the programmers are for.

There's no reason for this guy to not be able to "make game experiences" and still have someone make a PS3 port. Valve is tight with MS, and that's all the guy should've said. Saying they avoid learning different technologies makes them look lazy.

[Homicide]

Wow @ all the comments in this post. Fanboyism is a disease that needs to be cured.

[housegroove76]

mispost

[fuckoffodion]

try curing yourself first. you're infested in it.

[HDgamer]

Valve is lazy IMO, if you can't update the source engine then why bother. Gabe Newell complains about a system he has never developed a game on then passed the orange box to EA games to port it. Pretty much if they ported the game in 2008 it would've been better. Other than that I don't see the reason you should buy games like L4D with very little replayability without user created content. After awhile the multiplayer gets boring and the difficulty isn't that hard.

[solar]

wow....just wow. you definitely dont qualify to post here if you dont think the Source Engine has ever been updated....

[D3acon]

Sony released the phryeengine(sp) last year to help developers who were use to programing for pc. The tool was free and games like Dirt was one game that was used int he process.

The thing is that statement should have never been made by a professional company. Good business never requires you to put down you competition or other companies. The statement makes it clear that they are unwillingly to explore new avenues of game development while others are, and reaping the benefits. If other companies are saying the same thing and then maybe Valve would have a point, but third party developers are seeing the potential and utilizing the ps3 potential. And first party developers are doing tremendously well, you can tell by the AAA games.

In the end if its too expensive, then say that, don't put down the other company for something they have no control over. We are more familiar and comfortable with the 360 design, which will insure higher quality games for our loyal fans. Sounds a lot better don't you think?

[sarshelyam]

Perhaps you should go work for Valve and slap around those fatties and their lazy excuses. Or work PR and tell them all to just shut up!

[DaPS3Duke]

heck, Modern Warfare steamrolls Half Life any day, imo.

[stuntman_mike]

i have to say thats a poor excuse (again!) i mean if they can make crap like turning point on ps3 im definatley sure l4d would work just as good

[Henry Cain]

Wow what does that say about your company. Its seems like a bunch of lazy developers over there at Valve. I downloaded the demo of the first Left 4 Dead and was very disappointed with it. This also tells you how much more advance the PS3 is than 360.

[sarshelyam]

Direct from Valve's Gabe Newell:

"Well, uhm...we, uhm...we, uhm, know the Microsoft, uhm...you know, uhm...the PC's and the, uhm, the uhm...Xbox's 360's uhm, so uhm, it's easier to you know, uhm, do stuff on, uhm, you know, like...program for without, uhm, more work. More work, uhm, means less food!"

Someone in PR needs to make sure these guys just shut up and make games because anytime one of them opens their mouths a big wad of stupid is regurgitated forth into the world. I can appreciate what Valve has done for gaming in general but these excuses make me less likely to continue putting my money towards their product. I just can't support a bunch of morons who'd live better lives as cliff-bound Lemmings!

[Morituri]

This is old news.

Screw them BTW. If I wanted any of their games, I would get it for PC. The PS3 is not thirsty for their games. There are plenty of developers with far more skill and technique that are pushing out stellar goods for Sony, so who needs em anyways?

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

Can someone tell me what the hell Left4Dead is seriously, I've never seen any gameplay of this game because i always think it's some crappy game or something cus every time I see the box art of this game it just looks rubbish like a medicore title.

[pwnsause]

its a zombie FPS game.

[Leathersoup]

menoyou - "Ok, I am boycotting Valve. This is just unacceptable."

Yeah... that'll show em... Don't buy the game they're not publishing for you....

[Jazz4108]

Wow 300 and something comments and there almost exclusively ps3 fanboyz's complaining about Valve. If you dont like valve then why all the comments. I just do not get it. Oh by the way, all they are saying is they prefer the 360 and pc over the ps3 and they have said this a million times in the past. So its just like dev's that develop exclusive for PS3 they prefer to and Valve prefers not to develop for the PS3 its not that hard to understand and they have stated this over the years several times. So please move on.........

[mirroredderorrim]

I dedicate this to Valve.

[forumcudude]

Real developers close their mouths and doing hard work. They release a game like Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns of the Patriots... Which is the best video game ever!

And on the other side some lazy asses like Valve released damn overrated FPS games and they though their the kings!

But their wrong as hell!
Because if someone has to talk about Ps3, thats not Valve! It has to be Konamıs employers!

Only that way we can really know whats the difficulties of PS3! Not with some fat guy!

[xg-ei8ht]

I've liked Valve games for a long time, being a PC man first.

But i'm not quite sure wtf they are doing.

PC gaming is at best stagnant.

Alot of devs are moving over to 360/ps3/wii. etc.

I remember when HL2 came out. Everyone, including valve were harping on about their game and the tech. I remember the tech demo with true HDR lighting which never made it into the full game. Some of you younger ones might not know.

But tbh the engine is so outdated now and they don't seem to be pushing tech or graphic cards anymore.

I've played LFD on PC maxed out and it looks awful, textures are bland and very poor, no normal mapping, theres no proper hit detection and you feel nothing when hitting the zombies. theres no decent collision detection. It's poor.

I think the game was fun for ashort while and is a decent enough concept for a game, but damm in the right devs hands, this game could have been awesome.

Shame on you VALVE.

[FFXI101]

I think none of the PS3 owners here really care nor expecting Valve makes a decent game for PS3.

I own 360s before and I played L4D, it was fun for few hours then it gets old. To me, COD:WAW Zombie mode is funner than L4D.

If other studio/companies like EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Activision, SE, Sucker Punch, Naughty dog, etc can make games on/for PS3 then I don't see any reason they(Valve) can't. So it must be like most people mention here, they are either too lazy, too stupid or both.

[Marty8370]

Real devs even with problems they face getting to grips with the PS3 hardware, overcome any problems over time. Same thing happened to PS2, it too was hard to dev for at first. But the devs that did make a go of PS2 deving, are the ones better suited to programing the PS3.

It's only lazy dumbasses like Valve, that won't change there ways or learn something new. Valve will be left behind, thats for sure.

[devilhunterx]

Valve: "I R BABOON"

[Thoreau]

knowledge is not power.

[360DownINflames]

Looking at L4D they definitely dont know how to program!!!!! HA HA Enjoy the game xbots !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yorkie]

Valve dont make games for PS3 lets move on everyone. But just look at he PS3 games available and the ones coming soon, you wont have time to worry about valves no show on the system. Got to be honest though, kinda wondering why they have to keep repeating it every once in a while seems to be a common theme with Xbox developers, Forza devs keep spouting about GT5 hmmmmmmm. trying to brain wash the young and impressionable perhaps ???????

[housegroove76]

Im not a fanboy, I just hate Gabe, if he left Valve they would be cool in my book. I would just hate the next company he works for or starts. I know it's messed up to hate the ship just because of the captain, but for me, thats just the way it is.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

And Insomniac shuts out "not giving us $$$" 360

Not every dev is obligated to work on every console. Where are the complaints about third parties that only work on the PS3?

I don't see these cry baby and "Insomniac SUCKS!" comments when the same thing happens.

This self-entitlement that PS3 owners feel like they should get everything is annoying

[cloud 279]

When have Insomniac said anything bad about the 360 or the PC? Mostly what they would have said is their game won't run on the 360. From what the interviewer from Valve said is that the PS3 is too complicated to develop for. PS3 is in its 3rd year now, why is it hard for them to develop for the PS3 now? All the devs in that past that said this have gone to develop similar games on the PS3 and 360. Also Insomniac is providing coding for the PS3 on their website for them to download. How is that hard to develop for PS3 now? The developer could've just said that they prefer to develop on the 360 and PC.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

So you give Insomniac the benefit of the doubt with their words but you don't Valve?

Their reasons seem clear. They are mainly a PC developer, they are comfortable with their studio focused around PC development and the 360 compliments that well.

So Valve doesn't want to make a PS3 game = lazy/crappy devs

But Insomniac not able to get their games to work on the 360 = Honest truth?

Insomniac are some talented dev's and their games aren't anything that I've not seen done on the 360. I'm not going to condemn them however and call them lazy untalented dev's and insult them.

[cloud 279]

I didn't say anything bad about Valve, them working exclusively for the PC and 360 is fine by me. Its same as Insomniac making exclusive games for the PS3, it should be fine for you as well. All I tried to say in my post is, the interviewer saying PS3 is hard to develop for instead should have just said that we prefer to develop for PC and 360. Them saying PS3 is too complicated to develop for is flamebait.
I don't give them the benefit of the doubt for saying that, but its dumb to say that without backing up your claim reasonably. Also game journalists should stop asking valve management or employees any thing related to the PS brand, because they have made their choice and gamers don't need to hear this sh*t over and over again.

[Gambeno]

saying you have no interest in developing ps3 games is one thing, no one is crying foul on bungie, or other studios developing exclusively for the 360. Business is business and we can understand that. To say that ps3 development is "too complicated" is either saying your not smart enough to do it, or your too lazy to learn how to. Tons of devs are doing it. It's obviously not "too complicated" when other studios do it just fine.

don't get me wrong i like valve and their games, but gabe needs to think before he speaks. Sometimes it's smarter to say nothing at all. It's like they say: no one knows you're idiot until you open your mouth.

[SaberEdge]

But it is harder to develop for. Lots of developers have told us this. John Carmack said that it is taking twice the work to get Rage working on the PS3 as on the 360.

Just because most developers struggle through it, because they have to, does not mean that it is not difficult. The fact that a majority of multiplatform games still struggle to have the same performance on the PS3 as on the 360 is likely evidence of this.

Why should Valve get flack for simply telling the truth? The PS3 IS harder to develop for and for Valve it simply isn't worth it.

[blakstarz]

Too complicated = amateur developers

[Pandamobile]

Valve are one of the most revolutionary game devs out there.

The PS3 is notoriously hard to code for and Valve would rather not waste more time seeing is how poorly the Orange Box sold on the PS3.

[NotSoSilentBob]

You do know why it sold bad was because IT WAS WELL KNOWN how GLITCHY and BUG FILLED it was from the time it was first reviewed.

[Mc187]

All this fuss over an expansion pack, oops I mean L4D2

[Persistantthug]

1UP: First off -- are you still holding off on a PS3 version of Left 4 Dead?

Gabe Newell: We don't have the bandwidth. For The Orange Box, EA did the PS3 version. They're interested in getting a PS3 version done. We just have to figure out where the resources can come from. We don't have the bandwidth. We're doing the 360 and PC version ourselves.

1UP: If there is a PS3 version, would you let EA do it, or would you like to actually dabble with the PS3?

GN: I think we need to do a good job with supporting the PS3 with the Source engine. Our engine licensees would like us to do it. I think we need to invest more in getting that in there. So I think that we'll, over time, be directly more and more supporting the PS3 as our bandwidth allows us to.

http://www.1up.com/do/featu...

[Dante43]

You guys are idiot saying PSN is laggy, we had 60 players in R2 and there WAS NO LAG AT ALL. Just wait till MAG, bunch of idiots.

[blakstarz]

How come no else is whining or complaining, EA use to b**ch about the same thing in the beginning, but they grew some balls and learned about the system, and now you are getting much better looking games (Ex: Deadspace..etc). If they want to stick to simple things, then fine, but don't say its complicated until you actually make an effort to try and create a game on it...to me it sounds like a lack of self confidence. They could be reaching a much bigger audience and probably generate more revenue if they included the PS3 into the mix...but hey, if they don't want to do it..that's there loss.

[saimcheeda]

Guys must have failed their classes in school!!

[LinuxGuru]

Yeah, yeah we heard you the first time.

[RumbleFish]

Honestly: is anybody interested to put money in the pockets of this "thing": http://de.wikipedia.org/w/i...

????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????

[Dead_Cell]

People whine about them not making games for the PS3,but it's because they're not really console developers,they're PC developers.
Valve make games for the 360 because the 360 has the architecture of a PC,games can be ported to and fro with minimum work.
It's not that they lack the skill,it just isn't there "home" so to speak,they work and do well in there own area. Can anyone name an Insomniac or Naughty Dog PC game?

[Halo3 MLG Pro]

A lot of developers have expressed their negative feelings on the architecture of the ps3. It seems that it takes double the amount of time to make a sweet game on the ps3 compared to the 360. Just look at GT. That game has been in development for 5 years already. The 360 already released Forza 2 and Forza 3 will come later this year and GT is still not out. Forza 3 looks every bit as good and it only took about 2 years to make compared to GT's current run of 5 years.

[unknownhero1123]

valve does make great games. I'm still waiting for HL: episode 3 info.

[LinuxGuru]

And you'll be waiting for a long time because they're too busy milking the poor people who bought Left4Dead...I'm one of those people.

[unknownhero1123]

Yeah, I know what you mean. truth be told, I don't know how to respond to valve making L4D2 so soon. on one hand, I'm happy to see another l4d game and on the other hand, I think it's just too soon.

[Dead_Cell]

Of the time making Gran Turismo isn't just making it WORK,it's about making it work as in real life and flawlessly. Everything is given such a huge amount of work for details and getting it right so of course it takes time.
it's also acquiring and getting first hand experiences with the car licenses and making alot of it authentic.
Gran Turismo hasn't been seen as the definitive racing sim for so long based on nothing,Y'know?

[Socomer 1979]

Ps3 is too complicated. only its just Too complicated only for valve.
they actually suck and keep making the same game over and over while stealing user created mods and selling it as thier own.

[Bladestar]

as I said before... why the hate against valve for wanting to stick to their root (be a PC developer)?

How about the various PS3 developers that though are not own by Sony rather work with the PS3 only instead of making their games on the xbox 360 or the PC for that matter?

Take Kojima for example... I don't see PS3 leg humper b!tch!ng about him only making games on the PS3. The rumor is that he is not even directing the xbox 360 game he announced but someone else.

How about the developers that made Lair... or those who made Haze and went out of business while at it? You see... at least Valve is making money while supporting the console they feel comfortable.

Valve not an xbox 360 developer... Valve a PC developer which happends to be the more advance, evolving and powerful platform any developer can make for. PC define the base for future consoles in terms of graphics and power of the next gen.

The support the xbox 360 because microsoft made it easy for them to do so. so why not.

it's sony fault for not being consistent between console generation and chaing the platform and APIs forcing developer to have to re-learn everything.

[A LIVING LEGEND]

No more orange boxes? good enough,I have wasted enough time and money on Valve's overrated efforts.They can keep Half life and L4D.Good riddance.

[Pandamobile]

Your loss :)

[marcindpol]

i do not give a fcuk about Valve,

fcuk them!

one thing is for sure no real programmers work at Valve!!!

[beavis4play]

naughty dog, GG, insomniac, kojima studios, polyphony, From studios, level five, and team ico say "HI".

[Allowen]

Ps3 is giving GOOD money for devs and if the predications for the console for the next 2 years are correct it will give even more $$$.

if Valve can't handle to make games for the PS3 then they are missing a great chance to improve thenselves.
I doubt that an Xbox720 will be simple to program games to run on it.

The more stuff you put on the screen, the more detail you want you also need sooner or later a new engine and it is indead hard to make.

if Valve don't try to get better they will end making games for the old(supposing already exists a xbox720) xbox360 and the Wii cause they can't make stuff for more powerfull hardware.

[Pandamobile]

Valve tried out the PS3 with the Orange Box. It didn't go so well. Why waste more development time just to have the same thing happen again.

[mirroredderorrim]

Wrong. That was EA that "tried out the PS3 with the Orange Box" Not Valve.

[Pandamobile]

I know, I was implying that Valve let EA attempt it.

[Relientk77]

fine Valve, do not embrace the future or the money. Don't develop for the PS3 it's your loss

*and for Beavis4play above me:

you just owned Valve, nice

[Jockamo]

the "future" is still selling in last place...

[Allowen]

An even smaller company made the game Killing Floor, it costs only $14 and it is as much fun and beautifull as L4D that cost $50 and both have more or less the same ammount of content.

Valve is confirming what every one already know : they are a weak company these days and are scared of challenges.

Better Sony don;t bother to try to ask then to make a game for the PS3 because they will take 4 years to make a L4D2 to run on the Ps3 ,LOL.

[Midgard228]

so they r basically saying they suck compared to every company who makes games multiplat and exclusive on the ps3 LOL!!!!

if amazing games like killzone, ninja gaiden, god of war (upcoming), COD games uncharted, prototype infamous etc etc every good game out on the consoles then why cant Valve do it?

1 = lazy
2 = they are the worst programmers using half life 2 engine for their new games.

come on if crap can still look good or be made like lair on ps3 then why the f cant they do a simple port.

Valve = fail sorry, they were cool in the old days with half life counter strike but they've grown old and lazy and have fallin behind.

dividing is more complicated than multiplying does that mean ur not gonna learn it, pfft w.e valve

[Allowen]

For ppl that stil don't understand why ppl is so mad about L4D2 coming so soon is the fact that L4D one have little content for a game that cost $49 but it was promissed that they would add more DLC(free or not does not matter) as soon as possible.

So far anyone could go to buy games on the Steam, check out Killing Floor, a survival coop FPS that uses the old Unreal 3 engine but it does not lose in nothing in terms of fun and content to L4Done with the difference it only costs $14.

If Valve launchs L4Dtwo for $50 bucks then it better be a long game or other companies will eat their game alive with much better and cheaper games.

LOL> Killing Floor scared the hell of Valve and its L4D ......

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

is just as good if not better than L4D according to some posts I've read about it early this year. It was rumored long ago to come out on PS3 when L4D first launched, but it is a PC title. It is more of a horror title than L4D.

Isn't it an Unreal mod?

[Karum]

Valve will claim to have some of the best people in the industry, including programmers.

Yet the PS3 which even some very small studios with probably less experienced prgrammers make games for the PS3 just fine.

Valve are either just lazy or have something against making games for the PS3 that obviously runs deeper than the console being "too complicated".

[lordv8der]

As far as i am concerned. Valve are a PC Dev, always have been. always will be. they are single handedly (except perhaps for WoW) keeping the PC gaming scene afloat, and for that they have earned my respect, along with that they have created one of the best gaming IP's ever. I can do without them on ps3. I will always be a Valve fan, but for their PC work. They are not a console dev...

[DevilNinja420]

I really dont care about valve games to much, and if I want to play them ill play them on PC.

[zonetrooper5]

Isn't Sucker Punch a first party developer?

If they are then wouldn't that mean they would only have to concentrate on one platform.

Valve on the other hand is working on Steam, updating TF2, updating the Source engine, working on L4D1 content, maybe some DoDS content (very unlikely though) and HL2:EP3 which they have said is suppose to be quite big and ambitomous which is why its taking two years to make. As far as I know they only have 190+ people working at Valve, I'm also pretty sure that developing for the PS3 can cost quite a bit of money, maybe Valve is too small and doesn't have enough money teach all of its staff to work with the PS3.

[Jeff257]

I just read an article in PTOM where they asked many third party publishers why they liked developing games for the PS3 and while they said it took some learning to figure out how to best utilize the Cell and SPUS. They have found that once they did it really drove forward how powerful it is and what could be done on it. Valve saying they wont because its too "complicated" just means they are nothing but too LAZY to try. No wonder Newell got so Fat. he doesnt like actually working hard at anything and would rather sit on his fat a$$ eating donuts.

[SaberEdge]

Why is the PS3 still struggling to keep up with the 360 on most games then? Where is all this unlocked potential on the PS3? Most multiplatform games still look better on the 360 and even many exclusives such as Infamous really aren't that graphically impressive.

The fact is, developers are pushing through it the best they can, because they have to. Especially now that the PS3 has an install base that is too large to ignore. John Carmack said the following about developing his game Rage on the two platforms: "...we are having to work twice as hard on the PS3 to bring it up to spec. But in the end it's going to be 60fps game, and it's going to wind up looking just like the 360, we just had to sweat lot more for it."
http://www.destructoid.com/...

The fact that Valve want to save themselves that headache is their own choice.

[Jeff257]

I dont know of many games lately PS3 has struggled on when it is used as the lead platform. Look at how good Dead Space turned out using the PS3 as the lead. The fact is when devs put in the time to actually learn the PS3 games for all systems are the better for it. So what if they have to put in a little more work to do it. Like I said Valve are just too lazy to put forth a little more effort. Like everyone else ive heard devs say how the PS3 is so different and even Sony heard it which is why they have done a better job lately at helping devs by making their dev kits easier to work on by giving them new tools and giving them the support they need.

[Snatcher]

Team Fortress 2 = Best multiplayer experience ever? Hell yeah.
Left4Dead = Incredible fun in Co-op and Versus mode.
Portal = Best puzzle game ever.
Day Of Defeat = Very good multiplayer, many people still play it.
Half Life 1 & 2 = Best FPS games.
Counter-Strike Source = Another great multiplayer game.

But these games should be played on a PC, not consoles.

[unicronic]

Valve are just lazy. PC gives them no barriers and porting to Xbox is easy given the cross-compatibilities. There are far too many games (including exclusives) coming out for PS3 for this "complexity" to be an issue. It's like learning a new language, of course there is a learning curve but if you put the time in, it comes naturally afterwards.

As for Valve's resume of games it's good but not the best.

Team Fortress 2 = Good but most certainly not the best ever. Try Halo online, KillZone 2, COD4 Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 etc etc.

Left4Dead = A good game but hardly original.

Portal = Innovative but come on will anything ever beat Tetris as a puzzle game? Try PixelJunk Monsters also.

Half Life 1 & 2 = Very good games no doubt. Half-Life 1&2 are crown jewels for Valve.

Counter-Strike Source = A good MP game due to alot of community support but hardly something that makes Valve stand-out.

Valve are good developers but not great. Whilst HL1&2 stand-out the rest of the collection are highly subjective experiences.

[OtherWhiteMeat]

Well doesn't look to promising for Half-Life 3.I'm sure Microsoft is going to love rubbing it in the face of every ps3 owner.HL3 will be announced at the next E3.A Microsoft exclusive. (heard here 1st)

[Karum]

I don't think consoles do HL any justice. To me HL is a PC game and that is where I'd want to play it tbh, I own a PS3, 360 and a gaming PC and I have to say for a game like HL I'd be getting it for PC.

MS can rub it in the face of whoever they want but those kinda games just belong on PC and work better there imo.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

doesn't mean lazy. They just are not willing to make a PS3. Maybe they are satisfied making 360 exclusives. Let it hurt their wallet and they might change, cut into Gabe's cookie supply (Okay I had to say something).

I have never been interested in a Valve game, and expect be underwhelmed in the future. Of course, I feel different about Epic and Bioware. I'm glad that they at least appreciate the PS3 and its 20+ million owners, despite having AAA exclusives. Although, I think Dragon Age will be as much a AAA hit as Mass Effect when it is released.

Bioware's Ray Muzyka said the PS3 is "really amazing to work on." I guess Gabe & Co. will miss out on the future, baby. Have another cookie.

[chisox100]

this just proves the left 4 dead 2 will suck. Valve is too lazy to put effort into making a PS3 version. What makes you think they will put effort into making the whole game?

[sofocado]

"They should rename the article . Valve Says NO to Money"
No I think they don't want to waste money. If is more difficult to make a game on the ps3 then that will translate wasting more money.

[RealtorMDandDC]

Overrated.....lackluster attempt...at gaming.....PS2 graphics(not really many current PS2 games look better)....and sound that's similiar to the noise that my @$$ produce.....

[KenAdamsNSA]

Were you breathing heavily while typing that or what?

[lrn2hate]

Shocking that a developer would say the ps3 is too complicated.. Especially when there are amazing games out now and soon to be out for the ps3. Valve should of just said"were too stupid to develop on the ps3. Makes more sense.

[NotSoSilentBob]

So Valve is admitting they are to dumb to go back to school and learn new things? Let them play off the source engine and keep doing the basic crud just remixing it. I'll enjoy my New exclusives that make valve look like a 2 year old vers Micheal Jordan in a game of Horse.

[donnie-2105]

the cell archeitecture is crippled by the ps3 poor outdated graphics hardware.plus the only possible advantage of cell will be better AI,physics not the graphics.hard ti develope for dose not mean good 99percent of multi platform titles will attest to this as they out weigh sonys impressive exclusives 50 to 1.which is better the odd nice exclusive or the vast majority of games relaesded being notably superiro on your platform

[NotSoSilentBob]

how can they get the visuals of Killzone2?

Ps if you are wondering The Cell is ALSO able to do Graphics to a limited point Anything the 360 can be Programed to do the Ps3 can do.

[mikemill]

Gabe Newell and his Valve buddies are a bunch of pussies. Everybody else is able to do just fine on PS3 hardware, why can't they??? Because Newell and his buddies are douche bags

[mikemill]

Hey Gabe, play your Left 4 Dead right before taking a run on Killzone 2; the production value difference is laughable (I own both games). L4D provides some mindless fun, but it's graphics kind of suck. PS3 hardware sure is a waste of time Gabe!

[glennc]

only children care more about graphics than gameplay. L4D was never intended to be a game like Killzone. Apples and oranges. they have never said it looked better and i would suspect they don't care.

why is it now Killzone is out PS3 users have become the anti-PS2 user, graphics graphics graphics? or is it killzone killzone killzone?

[Creep]

valve just wants to drain the hell out of the source engine come one don't u get left4dead 2 already in like a few months they made a couple of bucks on the 1st one and they want to make more on the second one with little effort and developing for ps3 takes more time and money not worth it and the xbox is a close to mid-range pc so they know dumb xbox fans will pay 60 bucks for a imcomplete game they have gotten schooled by MS. There's nothing else to it.

[Pandamobile]

Multiplatform games are harder to develop for the PS3 because the architecture is vastly different than the 360's and PC's.

That's why the PS3 has such awesome looking exclusives. It takes a lot more dedication to master the PS3.

Valve have more important things to do, like get Ep. 3 out the door.

[solar]

seeing all these whiners cry that a developer doesnt develop their top tier AAA games for their console of choice is hilarious. Sony Fanboys are the worst. i cant wait to turn on my Ps3 again.....to bad i gotta wait til UC2 to do it.

[joevfx]

if no one else was developing good PS3 games then i would believe Valve about the PS3 being to hard to develope for. But NO, companies are makign AMAZING PS3 games. Games to me that look just as good if not better then half life 2 and are just as fun. (half life 2 is one of my favorite games of all time)

so "to complicated" to me sounds like they are to CHEAP to spend the money for some R&D. they just cant come out and publically say that as a company.

[GameScrubs]

If you are not an owner of a video game company then you have no right to say that Valve is lazy, bad or dumb developers.

To me it seems they have made a smart choice according to their company goals, resources and user base.

It's not the fact that others have decided to spend the time, money and energy to get a game on the PS3. It's the fact that Valve has realized that for them to maximize their return on investment, they need to keep on with their business model.

If you know it's going to cost you X amount of dollars to port over a game, test it, learn it and deploy it and in the end it's going to cost you more to do that than to stick with what you know well as a business person you will do what is best for YOUR company.

The fact that they are mad at PS3 for changing architectures is warranted. PS3 changed it for the sake of being different and in the process is forcing people to do things their way instead of a proven and conventional way.

PS3 is the one that alienated them and they decided not go bite, because it's not cost effective.

In short you are not getting Valve games because PS3 is forcing you to change and Valve doesn't find it feasible to do so.

[Dawn_Of_Ashes]

valve dont want to do some ps3 games cause the fat ass Gab Nowell is a microsoft soldier. He was one of the guy who worked on Windows (i dont know wich one) and ms make him rich. So... Dont ask why he is a microsoft ass licker

[khamvongsa09]

I'm just saying, Hannah Montana is on the PS3... If Disney Studios can do it, you can too Valve.

[KenAdamsNSA]

Wow. N4G is slowly becoming a terrible site to look for intelligent or un-fanboyish comments or discussions.

Valve has always disliked the PS3. Since launch, they've found the architecture, the dev kits, and the software to be more complicated than is necessary. They're not alone. Many developers have stated that the PS3 is more difficult to design for than the 360 or Wii, and it's no surprise that most multiplatform games look and perform better on 360 because the PS3's development software is too convoluted for its own good. I don't care if the Cell processor has the potential to cure cancer, if you don't have the tools to get such a project going efficiently and consistently, the amount of power such a piece of hardware is capable of suddenly becomes irrelevant.

So please, stop taking these quotes out of context and portraying them as "big evil Valve" statements, because honestly, Valve is one of the last good, honest developers out there that truly gives a damn about making kickass games and making them last with free support.

TL;DR: STFU.

Edit: Valve is fully capable of creating games for PS3, people. Orange Box? Uh, DUH?

[aparri24]

Well tell that to the various developers who are making the best games of the generation on the PS3's "too complicated hardware".... there is no excuse for this kind of statement because other developers are achieving what they can't..... with the likes of KILLZONE 2, Uncharted 1,2, MGS4, LBP, inFAMOUS, The Last Guardian, R* exclusive AGENT, Heavy Rain, GT5, Ratchet and clank and MANY OTHERS that are setting the bar in this generation.... there is no excuse....

[No Way]

Wow. Can you say Fanboy, much? Haha.
"R* exclusive AGENT" Are you serious?
We know Nothing of this game.. Move along, kid.

[fuckoffodion]

Hey Genius, do proper research. Valve had nothing to do with the PS3 version of that game. Yea their name is on it, but an EA group did the actual programming.

[rmedtx888]

Mindboggle said it all. They are just lazy. Does this mean that they are not as good as most studios that develop for both consoles?

[JD_Shadow]

They KNOW they have caused some BIG time issues with making L4D2 WAY too early after the first one, so they go to where their fans love them doing the most: by bad mouthing the "big bad PS3".

There's a few problems with this, though. For one, not too many people buy the argument anymore. When Gabe brought out that infamous quote in 2007, there were a lot of devs that could've agreed with him. Now all you have to do is look to the dev closest to the Valve HQ to find out that they are one of the only groups (if not THE only one) that still think this, because they haven't even attempted it yet (as far as WE know. We've never seen any story about them trying to do this yet). This will not fly today, when we hear so many people saying otherwise.

Don't believe anything otherwise: This is only a way to get the MS fanboys to love Valve enough to buy L4D2 because those 20K plus boycotters are not going to, and if that number continues to grow at the rate it is now, it's going to get out of control before long. They know that their supporters seem to despise the PS3, as well (for no reason whatsoever other than them blindly apologizing for and praising them no matter what). Valve is scared to death that they are beating themselves over the L4D2 stuff, and they are just going to do the one thing they know to fix it: by never shutting up and feeding the fanboys the flamebait (because they don't care how crappy the game will be; they well support it as long as the dev that made it bad mouths the PS3 in some way and kisses MS's ass).

Thankfully, TRUE gamers have become MUCH smarter than to NOT see this.

[KingKionic]

I wonder by all these comments...

Does it mean...

That a certain....

Group of people...

Like valve deep down inside.

[ll_UNDERSCORE_ll]

FK VALVE

[ManOnFire]

buy or borrow an engine that works well on the PS3 and adapt it for there games ? That would save them time and in the end money.
Who knows they might even learn a few new tricks at the same time.

[shysun]

Same old song from them. If they would've started with HL2 by now it would be eazy!!!

[SacredENA]

FIRST!

I keed I keed...

In all seriousness though, if a dev is saying the PS3 is too hard or complicated to develop for this far into the products lifecycle, then maybe it's best they DONT develop games for it. I mean, then we'll just be complaining that we spent $60 for a pile of crap.

[tiamat5]

Translation: We like Microsoft better and they will give us more money but if they said they would sound like they were playing favorites then us PS3 owners would be pissed. So instead they come up with the"it's complicated" excuse and run with it. It's strange how companies like Guerilla, Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream,Insomniac and Sucker Punch can drum up games with movie and cartoon style graphics on the PS3 but everyone else says it's hard.I mean did you see the facial expressions in Heavy Rain? Or the Pixar like colors in Ratchet and Clank CIT? Or the movie like quality in Uncharted 2? The only reason we get crappy multi-platform games is because they make it for Microsoft first and try to cram it on the PS3 instead of adapting it to the system.
If the PS3 was in front and above the other systems you would see how fast they would adapt to the PS3's systems.Any who Left 4 Dead is no big loss. It was crap then and it's crap now. Like I have told my Xbots before. I am not as jealous of Xbox 360 games as they would like to believe that I am.

[No Way]

Glad you mentioned Insomniac..
Now, could you kindly give me a translation as to
Why Insomniac won't develop for the x360, will ya?
Are they playing favorites, as well?

C'mon, give me your best excuse. :)

[JD_Shadow]

Why do you guys continue to bring up Insomniac? It's not like it's the same issue. Insomniac makes ONLY PS3 games because they are a second party publisher. Valve is classified as a THIRD party that has created 360 and PC games, and was for a moment interested in making Wii games. Oh, and Sony DOES own the IPs that Insomniac makes. Valve owns their own IPs.

So PLEASE stop bringing up Insomniac, because this is a COMPLETELY different situation that has NOTHING to do with THIS one. PERIOD!

[No Way]

Because Insomniac is an *Independent* game developer.
They could develop for the x360, but they choose not to.
Why? Because they have a good relationship with Sony..
So, why can't Valve develop solely for the x360, or PC?

There really is no difference..

[lewis]

but is it just lazynis??

[Create]

Valve is lazy, there hasnt been enough time to create a new engine, so they obviously just used the same engine to create lfd2. They are basicaly releasing custom maps created with a user friendly engine. I didnt even like the first game, let alone a game they are going to spit out in less then a year.

The hand is photoshopped, they didnt even take time to create a new logo for the next game. Even I could have created something more creative then simply erasing and blending the surrounding fingers. I cant wait for them to release this game so they can learn a lesson.

[glennc]

So PS3 players are going to boycott Valve? I think it is the other way around actually

[No Way]

There's soooo many hypocrites and babies in this forum, and I only looked at the first page..

[YonasJonas]

nOObs! Not really, but oh, how the mighty have fallen. Get with the program Valve! Every day you seem lazier, and lazier. Btw where's Episode 3??? Maybe you think if you wait long enough someone will make it for you? Oh, that's right you're too busy releasing half games, and dlc for full price. Never mind a little thing called support.

[DuneBuggy]

Nothing but a business decision. I recall articles stating the PS2 was kind of difficult to write for,but it had a large enough install base to overcome that...IE make it worthwhile.
Same cant be said for the PS3 though (and I mean no insult by that).
Not worth rewriting the whole game to ship another 500,000/1 million units.

[BigBen]

Really, Valve?

Meh...I guess I'll just join the 15,000 360 fans boycotting L4D2 and I don't even own a 360. Some one link me the petition, please

[zookpr]

I just love hard working developers like valve. Stay on the xbox dudes we don't want underachievers on this side.

[mastiffchild]

Is this news? Really? IS THIS NEWS? Not to me-Valve, due to Gabe, have no intention of working on Sony platforms. While Mr Newell i in any kind of power they on't do either, imo. The guys as MS staunch as they come-he's worked for and with them practically all his professional life. If you could bet on anyone not wanting to put the extra effort into developing for a different console with "challenging" architecture you'd bet on Gabe, surely.

The sad thing about it is twofold in it's impact-PS3 gamers are denied some great games AND Valve can never prove themselve as talented as they like to make out.

Personally I'm certain Valve would do a good job of conquering the PS3 and could make things on the platform with relative ease-but we're not, and were never, going to have the chance to see that-Valve care most about the PC crowd anyway(which is why their 360 ouitput stinks alongside the PC efforts-seriously they're very bad for the size of jump between console and PC and don't tell me they aren't L4D on 360 feels like an insult after the PC version-and I don't have the greatest rig ever)like it in their MS only comfort zone being coddled by their PC fanbase.

Overall, it's a shame for PS only gamers and also a shame for Valve that they won't take the challenge to prove just how good they are but judging by how little they try with 360 versions of their games should any console owner really care? Their a PC dev and staying that way-it's their choice, mind.

[bilbobob]

Look at those games on the PSN. Small studio's who 'manage' to overcome that complicated beast and make some really good games. Yet a big studio like Valve cannot manage it.

Maybe they are just happy where they are. good luck to them.

Lazy B*stards.

[shorttylad]

why put loads of time and effort into developing on an inferior platform with less owners and will soon be as dead as sega? waste of money.

[hakis86]

But I have to say how Lazy/stupid are they?? I loved HL2, other than that no games from Valve has interested me (haven't tried L4D yet).
Too complicated? Then how come other studios have no problems with multi-platform titles? And what about the First Party studios? Sure then get more support but hey, they squeeze amazing things out of that box.

Funny how Valve is respected :-)

[el zorro]

Just because other developers are doing it doesn't mean it is easy. For Valve, who have a good relationship with Microsoft, it just isn't worth all the hair pulling to try to get your game to work on the PS3, only to have ps3 fanboys call you "lazy" because the ps3 version doesn't look as good as the 360 version.

[Hudahudahuda]

Gabe hates the PS3 cause it challenges him in size

[MurderMyDoll]

Ha ha wow...."too complicated" I just can't comprehend how pathetic and embarrassed they should feel for that. Could've sworn they've always claimed they're a great company with the worlds best staff, or maybe I'm just imagining they think that?

[THC CELL]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro...

[k jules]

It's only free delivery in the UK, don't think Gabe will want to pay to get to read it :P

[Andras84]

...they are in fact lazy. I got 0 respect for Valve....0 respect ever since that fat idiot, Gabe Newel opened his mouth about the PS3.

What a bunch of lazy spoiled developers they are. They should deserve that one one buys their L4D2 because of this and because it's more like an expension pack insted of a sequel. That also shows how lazy they are.

Oh and...HL2 wasn't that great. FU Velve....FU!!!

[shorttylad]

Cry me a river, soon more companies will follow suit.

[Andras84]

What an idiot you are! You amaze me....I like to study people like you.

[SmokedOut]

In other words they dont have anyone smart enough to program for the ps3, i would like to see it run on my ps3 but i will settle with my 360 version until they hire some people that have the ability to program for the playstation.You would think they would want to broaden their audience some.

[Clugan]

Interesting posts by IdleLeeSiuLung, who seems to go back again and again to a two year old article on Dr. Dobbs that says that a 60 line piece of 'C' code is 20x longer for the Cell. He then concludes that since this is the case, it takes a lot longer to code for the Cell, and that debugging must be a nightmare.

What IdleLeeSiuLung doesn't seem to know, or conveniently forgets to add, is that it probably is not the case that people developing for the PS3 work at such a low level of abstraction. Why would they? It would be like writing Windows apps in Assembler (or even 'C' for that matter) - nobody is much interested in this because working at a higher level of abstraction means fewer potential bugs and quicker time to market.

The one excuse IdleLeeSiuLung seems to cling to is that at the very least, someone developing for the PS3 would have to learn something new. Good developers are always learning something new, or there wouldn't be the C#s, Rubys, and <insert computer language here>. Having to learn technologies is no excuse - in my profession you either continuously expand your skills as a programmer or you get left in the dust.

[pete2711]

L4D was the most dissapointing pile of crap i ever came across, I actually bought this game even though i don't own a 360, Just so i could borow my m8s XBOX and play it, I love zobie games but still waiting for a good one since Resident Evil 2!

Graphics are terrible like PS2, Guns are god awful!! And the game is just a huge pile of poo and it made me glad i never bought the console aswell,

And reinforced the fact that i do not need a 360.

[SmOkInSkUlL87]

Valve certainly has some big vendetta against ps3. To be honest tho they aren't a big miss in my opinion.

[dorron]

If other game developing companys can develop for PS3 (some of them telling it's not hard to do so), why can't Valve???

I'll tell you why: Lazy company.

[MriownBOTH]

LOL

good thing i have all 3 so this article is irrelevant.

i can see CS only on 360 sometime soon.

[AngryTypingGuy]

Valve makes great games. I'm actually revisiting the Orange Box now to finish up Half Life 2, Episodes 1 & 2. I forgot how great those games are. They are very fun, especially using the gravity gun. I just hope that Valve updates their graphics engine for future games. It is looking a bit outdated.

[Boty]

We all know that Valve doesn't want to create games for the ps3. We have known this FOR EVER. And its not because they are lazy. Some devs can put out great games if only focusing on one console.(or two)

And just because they don't program for the ps3 also doesn't mean that the games they make are better than all ps3 games.

Leave them alone. And samthing goes to Xbox fanboys who are saying crap to PS3 owners.

[JHUX]

I played l4d for the first few months a ton in verses, but eventually the game just got old to me... I haven't touched it in forever, nor do I have the desire to. Source engine is one of the worst engines imo, and they need to just make a new one.

[tee_bag242]

Being a PS3 and 360 owner. Im all for it coming to PS3. But I can understand Valve not wanting to do a port or rebuild for ps3. PC coding is their forte. If you really wanted this game you would already have a 360 or PC anyway. Trouble with Valve is they have upset alot of people not making this next edition an update.

[tordavis]

Valve are some of the best devs in the industry.

I don't see Xbox fans complaining about Naughty Dog or Insomniac not making 360 games.

[dorron]

Naughty Dog has never said it was too difficult to develop for 360.

Only reason they don't do so is they have exclusivity with Sony.