When did JRPGs start to suck so bad?

Splosions:

"So, the other day I get a game from Gamefly in the mail. As usual, this is a pretty happy event for me as it means I will have something at least mildly entertaining to brighten my otherwise dreary and miserable day to day activities. What I did not expect, however, was the sheer amount of just plain jrpg suckage that would be flying out of my television set when I started up the game. I was not prepared for it and it nearly cost me my life. Hopefully you will heed this warning and go into things with a firmer grasp of what things are like on the dark side of the JRPG."

[Twizlex]

Haha, so true. Hopefully FFXIII can turn things around.

[Milk is for Babies]

If any game will do it, it's Final Fantasy. If not I'm never even going to try another jrpg ever again.

[Vault Boy]

Maybe he just doesn't like RPG's in general? I didn't think Star Ocean was that bad.

[original seed]

I did Enjoy Blue Dragon. Didn't finish Lost Odyssey.

I think developers need to take a step back and come up with the following

-An interesting story. No more girly boys who don't remember the past and have to fight an evil empire.
-A unique world
-Characters that we can relate to so that we can care about them
-They need their own style. Stop trying to capture the magic FF7 had
-Please make them shorter. I good story with great gameplay is worth more than 50 hrs of boring grinding.

JRPG devs need to pick up their game then maybe we will start picking up theirs.

Last Gen and before
I loved Grandia, FFV, Skies of Arcadia. All very different games.

[menoyou]

After the PS1 era is when they started to suck really bad. Especially everything coming out of Square-Enix. All they do now is make the same formula with some weird bisexual protagonist who saves the world. LAME.

[DA_SHREDDER]

After FFX.

[Baka-akaB]

They dont sucks or at least they didnt until the current gen , aka the "next-gen" .

There just havent been that many titles yet , and those from microsoft and square werent good enough .

However all is fine and looking up .

Ps2 jrpgs are still awesome in it's end cycle , with titles like persona 4 , Devil summoners 2 , Mana Khemia 2 and a few others ps2 titles . Ds and psp are mightily fine and dandy in that area as well

Tales of games are still great , but obviously wont move anyone but it's usual fans . Vesperia was good enough , and will be a little bit better with the bonuses on PS3 .

Tales of Symphonia 2 was as good on wii . And the next tales games on Wii Tales of graces is looking fine too .

Eternal Sonata was a decent game on both ps3 and 360 .

Hell even on ps3 there was still the excellents Demon Souls and Valkyria chronicles , also the still pretty good White knight chronicles .

I wonder if those of you saying it sucks are actual jrpg fans , or just wandered around pointlessly waiting on Square enix to deliver everytime , or to Mistwalker to actually do something worthwhile ...

Jrpg never started sucked , it's just that part of you expecting a far better and less rough transition , left behind a ps2 that is still very much alive , and went on to a almost non existent ps3/wii offering (still with a few great titles) or a filled 360 with subpar titles .

So be true jrpg fans , suck it up , enjoy great titles without being a graphic whore , FFXIII and followers with be there to fill that need for you soon enough .... and stop judging the whole genre on Square enix's performance alone . There have been plenty of time in history when they didnt offer the best game (except often in visuals) .

Now feel free to disagree away

[CrazzyMan]

Not, sure what people are smoking, but atleast on PSP and DS there are a lot of Amazing JRPG games.
Just try TWEWY or Jean d`Arc, while on PS2 - latest Persona 4. :)

While most x360 jrpgs are poorly executed, have many glitches, and are NOT being POLISHED. Just for example - Last Remnant, GREAT game, but UNPLAYABLE on x360. =)

Now, on PS3 we have:
Valkyria Chronicles
Demon`s Soul
These are really Amazing gems. =)

[FamilyGuy]

When they became made exclusively for a system that wasn't made for them, seriously. The undersized 6.5Gb of disc space, the user-base of on-line, gore, and fast paced game lovers.

It was supposed to be a walk towards diversifying what genres were found on the console but it the majority of the people who own the console don't care for the genre (jrpgs) then this is what happens.

[BLuKhaos]

Persona 3FES and Persona 4 say no.

[nbsmatambo]

or when they started over producing them for the x360, everything got pretty cliche after that..

[RememberThe357]

Great post man, gotta give you a bubble for that one.

On that note though, I would have finished Lost Odyssey if it would have had a better combat system. The story telling in that game was remarkable. The best I've ever seen.

I see the most promise in WRPGs right now. They are starting to get the story part down and the combat is already fun. One of my most anticipated games this year is Mass Effect 2 because of how great the first was.

I do still have faith in JRPGs. The Japanese devs just need to get their sh*t together.

[Baliw]

3D were implemented.

Now they need to focus into aesthetics instead of story and gameplay.

Bring back 2D with nice CG's.

Bring back Alundra.
Bring back Secret of Mana.
Bring back Suikoden.
Bring Back all the fun we had 10 years back there.
Bring short JRPGs to PSN store. Even chapters.

Good RPG's are like good books, who needs graphics, movies never beat them.

Really someone, build a 2D rpg alliance.

Cya

[original seed]

I'll return the favor.

[kevnb]

it takes along time to make a full fleshed out and great jrpg, once FXIII comes out the others should follow.

[solidsnakus]

oh... i see why they suck, cause their on the 360 and you cant play them huh...

[majorsuave]

I never liked JRPGs... hard for me to tell when they "started to be bad".

I can understand why some people like them, I just cannot.

[dc08]

When Square-Enix started making them for the Xbox

[L80BelfDK]

Ahhhhh! Flamebait!!!

[h0tz0rz]

Actually, I think they started to suck well before that. What was the last good JRPG you ever played?

[HDgamer]

Last good one for me was Dragon Quest 8, I wanted to believe Rogue Galaxy was good but that game didn't keep me busy.

[Godmars290]

The second Disgaea. Like the third, but none of its bad are memorable. Certainly aren't Mid Boss from the first.

[PS3Freak]

LAst was rogue galaxy, before that Dragon quest 8. JRPGS were great on the ps2. It all started to go downhill after ff12. I also liked the grandia games, and Dark cloud 1 and 2 were awesome(if u want to call them JRPGs). SO yes it all started with the 360 because there was MANY quality ps2 JRPGs.

[Cheeseknight28]

Correction, they started to go downhill with FFXII.

[PS3Freak]

@cheeseknight

You are right, FFXII was not as good as the rest i listed, but it wasn't terrible. I agree though that it was the start of the slippery slope, we just didn't know it yet.

[FamilyGuy]

Release this game on the PS3 and it will out sell the 360s lifetime sales in its first week.

The fan base is with the PS3, 1
The story is excusable (we're use to it) because the game play in the Star Ocean titles is so much fun.
Symbology, weapon creation/synthesis, upgradeable attacks and the look of the fight are all reasons behind the star ocean games fans, Not the stories.

When did jrpgs start to suck? When people who don't like them in the first place started playing them. If you want a good story pick up a book.
Not saying games don't need a good story but some games have NO story whatsoever and are still good, for games like those- game play and featured abilities are everything.

[skip2mylou]

Persona 3 FES on Ps2 was the last great JRPG of last gen

[Cheeseknight28]

I personally thought Persona 4 was better in every way over 3: FES.

[FOXDIE]

it has nothing to do with the platform it self, but its true that ever since they began appearing on the 360, that they began sucking.

Look for example at the ps2 that still has better Jrpgs coming out RIGHT NOW, like Persona 3 and 4.

[kevnb]

the last "great" one was Dragon Quest 8, but be patient the great ps3 jrpgs are still in development.

[kevnb]

actually sales figures show that jrpg sales on xbox 360 are about the same as they were on ps2, most jrpg games sell 500,000 copies tops. Dont believe me? Check out the sales for anything not named Final Fantasy, you will notice only a few jrpgs actually have sold more than a million (xeno series, kingdom hearts, and a few random flukes). Chalk it up as another misconception I have no idea how people thought up, similar to misconception that games are shorter (they are just easier now) and games are more expensive (I remember paying 80 bucks for mario 3).

[Cookigaki]

Since always. JRPG don't have enough action. Cookigaki does not wait his turn to kick ass.

[Vault Boy]

Some people don't like to think and plan ahead and use strategy, some people don't like twitch games. That's your opinion but I think RPG's are awesome.

[Timesplitter14]

That's true but I also enjoy JRPG strategy aspects.

IMO the perfect RPG would be a mix between WRPGs and JRPGs. Combining the action and diversity of a WRPG (like Elder Scrolls, Diablo 2, etc) with the storyline and planning of a JRPG

[FamilyGuy]

The gameplay in the Star Ocean games is and has always been all action, just as long as you can get through the crappy story/dialog combination.

this guy, the writer of the article, didn't eve get to the game play.

[ActionBastard]

When MS started paying for them? Maybe around that time? You know, the…the best selling JRPGs ever only on the 360. You know, the…the one, uh, they've been paying on for three years. You know, the…the JRPG. Mm, got something new to try and play? You know, maybe…uh, maybe a main character gets into a relationship, suffers a little heart break. Something like uh, what…what you been, you just been through. Draw from the real life experience. Little uh, little heart break. You know…work it into the story. Make those characters a little more three dimensional. Little, uh, richer experience for the player. Make those 3rd and 4th discs really keep the player guessing, what’s going to happen. Some twists and turns. Little epilogue, everybody learns the hero’s journey isn’t always a happy one...Maybe that's when. Or when MistWalker officially became overrated.

[Twizlex]

I wonder when the next JRPG will come out that DOESN'T feature amnesia or dudes that look like chicks.

[lonestarmt]

ahhh ok how about valkirya chronciles, valkrye profile DS, Suikoden DS, Cross Edge, Persona 4, Super Robot Wars Taisen, Disgea 3, knights of nightmare, Eternal sonata.

How about a when we get a FPS or shooter game where the guy doesn't have a buzz cut or bold, doesn't talks or when he does says the F-bomb every three seconds. Wait thats uncharted. lol

[ActionBastard]

That's a fine list of JRPGs and a nice counter!

[kevnb]

not a bad list, but Eternal Sonata is one of the worst games Ive ever played... lets replace it with Demons Souls.

@ Action Bastard
so what are you trying to say, that post hurt my eyes..

[Berserk1]

when they dissuaded to develop exclusively on xbot360.

[Queers of War]

Bingo.

[Green Lantern2]

All JRPG art suck it look so anime and it turn a lot of people off.

[Cheeseknight28]

Just like how your terrible grammar turns me off.

[PS3Freak]

Got a problem with anime?

[George Sears]

Since the release of XII everything has sucked. Last great JRPG's I've played and enjoyed was the Xeno series, KH series, Nocturne (Best JRPG ever imo) and P4.

[ssipmraw]

ALL HAIL SOLIDUS SNAKE

Persona 3 and 4, kingdom hearts 1&2 are some of my most favorite games

[DNAgent]

It's just that certain games in a series are. For example Star Ocean & Final Fantasy. Star Ocean 3 was pretty bad and so was Star Ocean 4. As far as Final Fantasy, that series went downhill as soon as Square-Enix started making the games and FF13 doesn't look like it will be any different from all the other mediocre/average JRPGs you see these days.

If you want to play good JRPGs then play some games by Level 5 & Atlus. They have games that are far better than anything Square-Enix has ever made (and ever will).

[Godmars290]

As good as Atlus is, they're no better than Square.

Though unlike Square, which is known for setting the bar for what a JRPG should be for "next gen" Atlus knows their limitations. Make general adventures instead of grand quest.

@Disagrees:

Okay, so maybe "limitation" may have been the wrong word. More like where Square's main focus is on graphics, Atlus' is on game mechanics.

[IrishAssa]

Didn't a dif team make FF12 ?? And now there gone back to the old teams for 13 and versus.

[DNAgent]

Squaresoft =/= Square-Enix

Squaresoft may have set the bar for JRPGs in the past while they were on the SNES (and possibly even PS1) but Square-Enix doesn't (and hasn't) set the bar for any RPG. If they have then it's already been surpassed a long time ago by better RPGs.

When Squaresoft made games like Final Fantasy there was always talk about "How can ____ measure up/surpass Final Fantasy" and now that S-E has started making the FF games it's like "How can _____ not make the same mistakes as Final Fantasy".

[PS3Freak]

Square enix made FFX did they not? You know that game was a masterpeice. Even almost a decade later.

EDIT: @ below

Oh wow, i was wrong. i just looked at my FFX and it says squaresoft. I had nooo idea it was made before the merger. WEll i stand corrected.

[Da One]

it was the last one before the merger, along with Kingdom Hearts

[Godmars290]

Whereas FFX-2 is Square-Enix, which should tell you something...something sad...

[wanderofys]

Agree with the original comment. Put down your fanboy glasses and "EVERYTHING GOOD IS NEXT GEN" attitude and pick up some of the great stuff Atlus is giving us on PS2, DS, and PSP. Last great JRPG? Devil Summoner 2. It came out LAST WEEK.

[raztad]

I like what SE is doing on portables. Both psp and ds have got a fair share of awesome titles. From FFVII:CC, DQ, star ocean remakes, KH:358/9 to Dissidia, KH:BbS.

I think SE job on portables is just awesome. Well, on HD consoles is just other story (pretty sad btw).

The guy who wrote this article just doesnt like JRPG so I dont take his opinions seriously on this regard.

[ultimolu]

Developers need to work on new formulas. That's what they need to do. Japanese developers are too afraid to take the next step with their games.

[E74]

bingo, you got that right , it seems the japs really are xenophobic when it comes to evolving their formula. its probably more overdone than modern fps. i think they made their games to suit their native audience and the foreign audience are just an afterthought.

[Spike47]

isn't going to make things any better, that I am sure of.

[deadlyliquidx]

end thread.

[Knightofelemia]

After the release of Final Fantasy 12 thats when thing started to suck for Square, Level 5 Namco and others remain true to their fans.

[Nikuma]

"After the release of Final Fantasy 10 thats when they started to suck"

Fixed.

[PS3Freak]

for Square enix, yes. Not for JRPGS in general though. Dark cloud 2 came after FFX, so did Dragon quest 8, so did roque galaxy and all those game were exceptional.

[Keowrath]

Nikuma, how is that fixed??? FFX was the worst Final Fantasy game I've ever played! (Yeah, I didn't even bother with X-2) Although the story was poor, FF XII was much better in terms of gameplay and world.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

"When did JRPGs start to suck so bad?"

The 360 started the trend of sh*tty JRPG's.

[Ashriel]

Yeah, every game that sucks started with the 360, 360 also has swine flu.

[Counter_ACT]

When MS started paying everyone off to wank them out as quick as possible.

[criticalkare]

I thought Star Ocean 4 was good, but The Last Remnant, and Blue Dragon were really bad IMO.

[NeoBasch]

Before or after Persona 4?

Regardless, this article is pure hyperbole. There have been great games, you just need to know where to look. Big names don't quite do it anymore. I'd suggest looking at several smaller franchises. Besides, Valkyria Chronicles, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia, nor Disgaea 3 suck. Now that's being ridiculous. And of course, handhelds are flourishing with the genre. Perhaps even over saturated?

But whatevs, it's all about the FPS. Am I rite or am I rite? /sarcasm

[Da One]

Disgaea 3
Demon's Souls
Valkyria Chronicles

---Edit

next gen rpg's

[Jsynn7]

It's not that JRPGs in general are sucking. It's the last few JRPGs that came out from SE that are sucking and I think there's a logical explanation for it. If you all take a step back and look at the big picture, SE and M$ struck a deal for exclusive JRPGs WHY? 360 console sales in Japan were hurting real bad. SE decided to help out M$ by giving them 2 original titles (Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery) and 1 popular franchise (Star Ocean). As you can see from sales charts, when these games came out, though they didn't do very well in the states or in Europe, they got big time love from the Japanese crowd which M$ was looking for. They also pushed decent console sales for weeks. But the sad truth is these games were rushed. These games came out pretty close to each other which I'm guessing is because M$ wanted to keep the Japan 360 sales momentum going and they paid top $ for this to happen which SE really cares about these days. Also, SE is focusing more on getting FFXIII and FFVSXIII out there that the SE teams didn't put their hearts in those other games. I'm sure if they weren't working on the FF games, these games would've been bigger hits. I have a feeling, once SE is done with FF games, they'll be back to their old selves and you'll start seeing high quality JRPGS from SE like the days of yore. Here's hopin'

[greyfox235]

me, final fantasy 8,9,10

legend of dragoon
Lost oddesy
tales on gamecube and vesperia
cant forget the mario rpg's all 3 of them classics

(tales is my least fav out of what i've mentiond though)

[kewlkat007]

I know square sets the standards.(Just the way it is). There have been some great JRPG's on the PS2 but have been over shadowed. There are plenty other franchises out there but it doesn't help that they do not sell very well...geee I wonder why?

I've been playing the Final Fantasy CORE Series for at least 20 years. While they all have been different in thier own right, I do realize, Square-Enix is no longer the Squaresoft we have come to known. You know, back when they had Hironobu Sakaguchi. Still today, I have not seen anything that rivals some of their best from the FF series. We all know which ones. Of course not just FF games but others, like Xenogears, Chrono Trigger..etc

It's not that I think, the new games suck but more so, in an attempt to satisfy all regions and cater to every platform(these days) they have lost that vision of what makes a great JRPG. If your an avid role-playing fan, and a loyal follower of SquareSoft, you'll realize playing "Lost Odyssey", Hironobu Sakaguchi brought back most of those ingredients, that make up a good JRPG game for which it was frowned upon.

JRPG's have never been about Graphics, yeah FMV/CGI cut scenes are kewl but for me, the story is what keeps me playing, then music...etc I remember playing FF12 and I just could not really get into it. It felt so commercial, almost like the game had no character. Then I'm not a big fan of automated battles. Reminds me too much of an MMO. I think it gets a little confusing with what gamers want these days.

You want JRPG's like of the best over the years but your frown upon them as well as reviewers when they are deemed too old-school or traditional. FFVII already did what it had to do, you can't expect another game as like. You cannot innovate the genre but the little things like the epic tales, battles systems, music. I'll take many SNES JRPG's over many today.

For those that are just getting into JRPG's start with "Final Fantasy IV". While I did love FFVII this was the one that has all the makings of a great JRPG.

[Midgard228]

but yes rpgs are getting cliche

xenosaga games were very unique and i think the valkyrie profile games are very very good, i think it might be that everyone expects all games to be the best, i mean hey last Gen i also LOVED odin sphere.

jrpgs just need to be unique, stop focusing on graphics so much, heck even if its gorgeous 2d i wouldnt mind, i think they use all their time on graphics now-a-day anyway.

ff12 started the suck for jrpgs i think. i think it was horrid.

Kingdom hearts is also awesome guys.

not many games make you feel like u know the character, last time i felt like that was ending of Xenosaga 3. AWESOME ENDING!

and hey Valkyria chronicles this Gen was extremlly unique, freakin awesome game

[TenPThor]

Aside from Persona, I don't recall many JRPGs being that good.

[Pootangpie]

seriously sony fanboys STOP BEING BITTER!!

[Midgard228]

go play gears of halo or somethin

[ElementX]

they sucked after Phantasy Star on the Sega

[Midgard228]

that idiot who wrote the article didnt even play the game what a loser. wow, if it was like that i wuda turned off god of war instantly after seeing kratos is mad at a god cuz he killed his own family in a blind rage then blamed it on the gods lol.

god of war was awesome anyway

[Lucreto]

It is still just the beginning of this generation.

If you remember the JRPG's were just as bad as the start of last gen. As hardware skills improve the games improve. I say the best JRPG last gen was Dragon Quest 8.

Final Fantasy usually sets the bar for others to beat.

[tawak]

its because its all about money this days,right square?,hey square listening!

[Raoh]

when they started trying to appeal to american audiences. most americans loved japanese rpgs.. for being.. well. japanese rpgs

a western rpg should be a western rpg not a japanese rpg with an american twist

[silvacrest]

the problems for Jrpg's for me atleast are the stereotypical characters

emo looking main character/hyperactive
annoyingly aggressive female character
done to death the world is ending unless you defeat X with Y

worst part is, i just described most pokemon movies without even thinking about it, which leads to another problem, repetition, the story is pretty much always the same when it boils down to the main plot

the new final fantasy is looking promising though

[nostalgic_noob]

Since the curse of the Xbox took ahold of them

[Magna Farta]

Thank you for bringing up all those points about the new Star Ocean...that game was an insult to the franchise at best!

When that little Anime stereotype girl started yelling at the main character in the beginning of the game, that about just did it for me, other than the fact that none of the voices fit their characters, and it all was extremely Saturday-Morning cartoonish, but in a bad way.

I think I was only able to stomach two or three hours of that trash before I shut it off and took it back. All I have to say to PS3 owners about the new Star Ocean is that you didn't miss much.

[jlemdon]

I love Lost Odyssey & Blue Dragon but having this hard time gettin into Star Ocean 4.

[TheLaughingMan]

when the $#@% did they start getting called JRPGS?!?!? seriously! thats when they started to suck when they started porting over and douche bags started calling them JRPGS! They're RPGs nothing more nothing less. Square didn't do anything you all did something. It's always been about money you moron nothings changed there. The idiocy of the masses caused this. And that means everyone who calls them JRPGS!!

[Etseix]

well they say
JRPG because its Japan Rol Playing Game, and that class exist u know? same as WRPG Western Rol Playing Game... its not idiocy call them by that its, like another genere :S

and yeah, its true JRPGS started suckin when SE decided to help Xbox over Japan ... they wanted to do games more fast than usual for the xbox,... thats theyr punishment, now SE is no longer the best developer for games like that, lol... SEGA n Level-5 beat them so easy with 1 game each one lmao.

[ceiltsei]

After reading a few dozen comments I noticed how quite a few of you seem to be missing the point. Why do RPGs seem to suck nowadays?

Are they really in your face? Are the characters immature or retarded? How do you like that whiny voice acting, is it grating on your nerves? Are you ever embarrassed when you play your RPG and family comes over? Have we used up our RPG cliches to the point of bastardization? Has the combat system really changed much since the 80s?

Answer these questions for me. I have played RPG games for 20 years and I have not played most of the newer titles due to these reasons. I may be a bit biased though, I cannot stand any game with voice acting.

My opinion - Realism, Anime, and Square Soft have pretty much ruined RPGs.

[hatchimatchi]

if you want good jrpgs you need to buy a ds.

[Nihilism]

despite what anyone says i liked ffXII...alot, i liked that game as much as i liked ffX, 2 of my fav rpg's ever ( yes i know they're jrpg's) if the next final fantasy is as good as 12 i'll be very happy

[EliteHITMAN]

and square released shovelwae for 360..
is MS getting dragon quest? please god not dragon quest, it will be ruined as well.

[bankai]

maybe i like the traditional what im used to mixed in with my gaming or what but i have always love JRPGs from NES to current gen.

what i also dont get is the current rant against JRPGs that started about a year ago, like its seen as some form of patriotism. its almost like they are trying to convince american gamers to stop liking those games.

i mean i dont see people who like JRPGs going on rants against FPS games or WRPGs or even action games. those play the same too, with few exceptions. games in the same genre just have similar style. if you want a game that is turn based, get the RPG. if you want a game thats not turn based, go for action RPG.

no need to turn RPGs into action/RPGs, those are 2 separate genre

[Gun_Senshi]

Since Square-Enix Merge.

JRPGs don't suck. Level-5 and SEGA say hi

[hiroleaf]

square merged with enix

[ASSASSYN 36o]

Star ocean characters are annoying. I just started playing it and I regret getting it. The game play is good but the main character edge is a whinny 317CH! I am going to pass on final fantasy. I am glad RPG's aren't universal in gameplay. I will continue with fallout 3 and wait for mass effect 2. JRPG's are childish garbage.

[Canary]

There's a perfectly legitimate reason why JRPGs seem to be "sucking" now, more than before.

It's the same reason WRPGs seem to be sucking now, more than before.

It's a ratio thing. Games are becoming increasingly more expensive and time-consuming to produce--particularly RPGs--so fewer games are being produced, and those that are are released in a significantly decreased frequency. Think of it this way:

1 out of every 10 RPGs made, western or eastern, is awesome. 9 out of 10 suck.

Five years ago when we'd see 30 rpgs a year, that was awesome. We'd have 3 insanely awesome games a month. Hell, remember when the Infinity Engine was cracking out classic titles every time ya' blinked? I do.

But now, it's more like we're only getting 5 rpgs a year. One good RPG in two years... that's not good. It's understandable, but it's not good. Of course, this applies primarily to big-budget games (PS3, X360, PC). It's easy to look at that line-up and say: "Witcher, Lost Odyssey, Valkyria Chronicles--and that's it."

But if you look at lower-budget platforms--namely the Nintendo DS and, to a lesser degree, the PSP, you'll see that there are plenty of great RPGs. There are a lot more, so, of course, there will be more good ones.

~___~

And before I leave, I want to point out that this, "JRPGs suck" crap is racist BS. I'm sorry, but it's just so stupid I really have a hard time seriously facing it. JRPGs don't suck now any more than they ever did. If you say that JRPGs are inherently better than or worse than WRPGs you are a flaming, flamboyant RACIST. Why? Because you're making a judgment based on ethnicity. If you love/hate JRPGs? You're a racist. If you love/hate WRPGs? You're a racist.

And if you just plain love/hate RPGs? Congratulation, you're a gamer.

[Jdoki]

I totally agree with your comment until the JRPG rant at the end. You made some really good points up until then.

Hating on JRPG's is not racist in the slightest. JRPG is a genre, they are games that generally have a similar style/feel/theme. Put 10 RPG's next to each other and most gamers will be able to differentiate between the JRPG's and WRPG's.

No one is making a judgement based on ethnicity. Saying it's racist to like/dislike JRPG's is like saying that someone who likes/dislikes Japanese art is racist or likes/dislikes JPop is racist.

[Canary]

@Jdoki

....it is. There are plenty of japanese games that feel western, and plenty of western games that feel eastern.

It's the same with art. "Japanese" is not a style of art. It is not a genre of games. It is a nationality. It is an ethnicity. It is not a genre.

The thing that often arises in JRPG v WRPG debates is a nasty kind of ignorance where, if you favor WRPGs, every JRPG is a farcical Dragon Quest meets FFVIII affair, and if you favor JRPGs, every WRPG is Oblivion.

If you don't like a game because it's a JRPG, you're making a racial judgment under the assumption that all JRPGs are, more or less, the same. The same goes for WRPGs.

A lot of this BS has its roots, I believe, in the post-9/11 xenophobia/ubernationalism movement.

[Jdoki]

I can see where you're coming from but I don't agree it's racist to dismiss a genre in this way - narrow minded and stupid, yes. But racist, no.

Sure, people can take a stereotypical view that all JRPG's are the same. But there is a grain of truth in some of these labels - how many hundreds of JRPG's have we seen with a 'troubled androgenous main character', for example?

What it shows is a narrow minded viewpoint, but not a racist viewpoint.

It is no more racist to stereotype JRPG's than it is to dismiss Western games for all being about war and gore. And it is just as stupid to dismiss all RTS or FPS games when there are so many nuances with in the genre.

You are right that there are many Western developed games that feel Eastern and vice versa - which proves the point that it is stupidity and narrow mindedness that makes people dismiss these games, not racial motivation.

Are you suggesting that people would play a JRPG style game if they knew it was developed in the West?

To me JRPG is just a sub-genre of RPG, in the same way that MMORPG is an offshoot of RPG.

Intersting points though Canary. I've not encountered anyone before who has such a view. makes for interesting debate. And by the way I guess I should have used an example of japanese art, like Ukiyo-e, rather than the generalism.

[SlyGuy]

The game is awesome.

[Jdoki]

I think a reason JRPG's have been seen to decline is because the developers know their biggest market is in the West.

Capcom and SquareEnix (at least) have come out and said they are trying to make more Western-centric games. And that's where the problem lies. Many people loved their quirky games because they had a different style and feel.

Any developer Western or Eastern dev that tries to bend their skills to fit a target audience, and widen the appeal of their games may struggle. It doesn't always work, and I think that's the problem we are seeing now.

[devilhunterx]

Right about the time they started appearing on the XB2.

[Matpan]

I guess when they started to produce them like burger king does with whoopers... too many, too much the same. Little innovation, too short production times. I suppose they must LOVE the genre and need a constant feed of RPGs... but the rest of the world (well that was too abarcative, let´s just say that I :P) feel like they are more of the same.

[ssipmraw]

they only suck if they were made exclusively for the 360 and were by square enix or tri-ace.

persona 3 & 4 beats all their current gen games put together and the game was developed on a nine year old platform.

[Droid Control]

Real time combat? Nope.

massive open worlds? Nope.

Realistic characters and stories? Nope.

[devilhunterx]

Ever played FF12?

Realistic characters and stories in wRPG? whever that happen? Do tell

[Droid Control]

The stories and characters are BS.

I prefer the western RPG's like Oblivion/fallout3/mass effect.

Real characters, great stories, not JRPG's with their massive eyes, pink hair do's and stupid contrived stories...

[devilhunterx]

you prefer the horrible looking unrealistic character designs of Oblivion??

Or the ghouls in Fallout 3, pretty realistic.

or wait. the aliens in Mass Effect. Oh sure. Real characters.

Great stories? please. All follow the same formula. You are the world greatest hero. Everyone before you was crap. Now go kill everyone. Yea very realistic and original.

I bet you dont believe P!nk is real either. She got a pink hairdo.

[kazan]

the answer is simple, when they try to Westernize them

[Roper316]

when the stupid button mashing battle systems were added to appease some gamers that still aren't buying the games. RPG's need to take a step back and return to the deep moving stories, the free roaming world maps instead of the linear path the game takes you on. No more damned button mashing battle systems, I don;t care if some gamers are to dumb to be strategic or to impatient to wait for there turn in a battle.

Games of a certain genre that stray to far from their roots tend to suck as bad as games based on movies. RE5 is a perfect example of a game that is total crap because it forgot what it was and tried to morph into something it is not.

If a JRPG now a days doesn't have a great story & characters I find it a chore to finish because of the linear path and the horrible battle systems they use. If I wanted to hit my x button over & over I would play a fighting game or something other the a JRPG.

So basically they need to go back to the basics and not worry about the western gamer so much. If you want to appeal to the west then make a FPS but all this hybrid crap is not appealing to anyone new but it is alienating the true JRPG fans.

[CypH]

well JRPG only kept coming out for the 360 I think that why

[militant07]

another shiitty article

bashing tri ace game

when did tri ace make a good game ?!

i played ff13 and im sure its going to be the best FF and the best JRPG

Lost Odyssey was awsome no matter how bad the reviews was.

Tales of vesperia sucssed to be the best Tales.

WKS looks good.

eternal sonata was such great game i played throught it 3 times and got my 1000GS

i almost forgot Persona 4.

and also

[TwistedMetal]

they were recently release a bit ago.
also demon souls is aesome hardcore rpg.
valkyria chronicles is an rpg just a different kind and its the best ever.

[syvergy]

Omg, like, omg this article, was, like written, by, like, a 12 year old.

"In space and stuff", "craptacular ass bandit". Ugh.

Looks like his plan to get his 15 seconds of internet fame worked though. This same article has been written many times before, and better.

[BizzR]

I really enjoyed StarOcean and LostOdyssey and didn't enjoy some of the other highly rated "A list games". Should I go write a few sloppy paragraphs about the fall of gaming....except JRPGs? Why are we all supposed to like the same games, same systems, same same same same. How F'n boring are you?

I play games for my enjoyment. I hope others enjoy them too, but if they don't it's cool. I'm sure they can find one they do like. What's wrong with leaving it at that? If you don't leave it at that might as well start yelling:

If you don't like what I like you're wrong...lets take up arms and start a crusade. Burn everyone who doesn't see the world the way we do!! BURN THEM!!

[pwnsause]

when Microsoft Bought them out to cater to the Japanese Fanbase, which doesn't really work, especially when a sandbox game based in Modern Day Tokyo outsold one of them.

[Reibooi]

You know I hate to tell you but this article is BS and everything in it is opinion opinion opinion and acting as it if opinion is fact and you taste is everyone's taste doesn't make it so. Alot of people liked Star Ocean and Even more continue to enjoy J-RPG's as we know then. You don't enjoy them? Fine don't play/buy them you can stick to you generic western medieval fantasy RPG's about saving the king/price and blah blah and we won't complain.

[frauny]

simple solution, play Persona 4. That game was fantastic.

[ShiNe-Box-]

when saying that. JRPGs are "all the rage" according to Breakbox fans.

[hamsterfist]

In the article he said Unibomber. It is UnAbomber. Unibomber is a sex act, involving testicles, deep in a mouth until throwing up. Google it. UnAbomber was the dude that mailed bombs.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Just taking the title question into consideration. Were they ever really all that good? I mean, the story lines have ALWAYS been garbage from a Western perspective, and the combat at first was unique for consoles but truth be told it hasn't evolved in a meaningful way. We are left with the graphics and sound.... Audio wise these games don't translate well, I mean 9 times out of 10 the voiceover work is horrific! Really its the CGI cutscenes that had these games being viewed as "fantastic" or "revolutionary" ...but really they were average to bad games just with really shinny graphics that console gamers were not used to seeing.

Now this is my opinion...and certainly there are many who will disagree. That is the whole point of the comments section. So I guess to each their own. But for me...JRPG's were never all that.

[Tex117]

I've posted this before and I will post this again Im sure.

I've played the original Final Fantasy (Hard as eff btw) and the original Dragor Warrior (hard as eff too). I only mention this to show I've played RPG's for a long time.

RPG creators have lost sight of why we started playing RPG's to begin with. We nerds like the story first and the gameplay right there as a close second.

SquareSoft was a company that was a master of storytelling. Chrono Trigger, FFVI (which I will always call III) were prime time examples of great story telling.

The worlds today of any of the JRPG's I've played fail to capture the expansiveness of worlds. (Perhaps in part to doing away with an overworld map...)

Im digressing.

I would be quite ok with developers taking a step down on graphics to up the story and the music. Valkeria Chronicles did this and it is a fantastic game. (Though the visuals are cool).

[TisoSpencer]

They started to suck when they started appearing only on the 360.

[The Official]

Because in Gaming today nothing is secret anymore. You are forced to pay attention to things you never really cared about.

[omgwownoobs]

is that enough to say? (thank sony for folklore =))

[zornik]

Do you think Microsoft pays Square -enix to make bad games???
Japanese studio's just lost there innovation skills.
I just finished Bionic Commando and everything in this game is mediocre and cliché.(not only JRPG's r going down the drain)
I played almost every JRPG on the X360 and only Lost Oddysey was good.I pre-orderd Star Ocean 4 just for the Sci-fi setting and the good combat system.I know it will be filled with cliché characters and story.The only JRPG i'm plannig to buy in the future is FFXIII.
My interest for JRPG's will rise or fall with FFXIII.
Just like the writer of the artikel i think i'm to old for this kind of games but it is also a fact that Japanese developers need to innovate to hold my interest and alot of other RPG gamers.Only WRPG's are innovative for my taste.....and do not take this for a fact...it's only my taste.

[skatezero246]

Once Squaresoft joined Enix and became Square-Enix

[Ldubbz]

Just kidding...sorta. I always thought theye were OK at best. I probably had the most fun playing Final Fantasy 3 on SNES. I was 18 hours in when I got stuck somewhere and just got disinterested. BUt I know these games are VERY popular, so thats just me.

But to me "WRPGs" are much better. Mass Effect and Fallout 3 are the best RPG's IMO. I still have to play Fable 2, didnt get into Oblivion but I know its also very good. I most regret not playing KOTOR 1 and 2. Hopefully they add those to the Xbox originals.

[nothere413]

This article is written like a Fratboy.

[gamingparadise]

The hell with all the hatin'? All I see everyday on this site is people bashing each other and hatin' on one another. Seriously, the author of this article was probably high on drugs while writing this cuz he's been missing out. Developers like Square Enix crank out awesome JRPG's. Can't wait for FF13. Hope E3 signifies something important about the upcoming installment to the FF series.