No more buggy games in Europe!

A large number of EU Commissioners propose that a new European law must be adopted to protect gamers from buying games that contain too many bugs...

[Menchi]

This concerns me.

If this can result in people filing suits against companies who've released titles with bugs in, then isn't it possible, that developers may shy away from bringing new titles to the region, in fear of such?

I'm all for less buggy games, but not less games over-all.

[PirateThom]

My fear is this as well as delays.

There's a lot of bugs that don't appear until the game is on shelves and I think developers will release in the US, patch major bugs, and then release un Europe.

[Leio]

Agreed they better define the "too many" bugs more clearly..There are many kind of bugs but the kind that stops you from finishing a game is unacceptable...

[Anon1974]

How the hell is the EU going to decide when a game's too buggy or when it's just a bad game? Are they going to create a ratings board now that reviews games and says what can and can't be released now. What if a game is fine but has a slightly flawed camera? Would that be refused when a game that is technically fine but is plain awful wouldn't have a problem? Who would decide this?

And where the hell were their concern for the consumer when Microsoft was flogging a product with a one in 3 failure rate for that first year or two before the warranty extension?

[evrfighter]

This is exactly why NA will to continue to reign as the top dog in the gaming market for many years to come.

[SpoonyRedMage]

You do know if they stopped rubbish hardware being released that the PS2 wouldn't have been been released either. I saw the buzz around the article about the 360 being on watchdog but the PS2 was on it many times and there was several times there was reports in newspapers about it, including about the recalls and overheating with the slimlines.

But Sony can do wrong, can it guys, right, guys, right....?....?

@V: Well yes, the RROD and everything is inexcusable and we shouldn't give MS a free pass but we shouldn't just single them out.

[gamesmaster]

European delays FTW!! this is going to get very complicated for devs and publishers. being from Britain myself, this spells even more delayed releases for us.

on a side note if this law had been passed earlier maybe we would've had GeoW 2 release with a playable mulitplayer. just a thought

[gamesmaster]

the thing is its not about the company sony, its about the ps2, it was too strong a console and way too profitable for action to be taken against it. the industry relied heavily on the ps2, devs, publisher and 3rd party hardware makers a like. Aswell as that the competition just didn't offer enough as an acceptable alternative for the industry.

the 360 has pulled though the rrod debacle for similar reasons, its a great console with great games (albeit not for everyone) but it certainly has its strengths and thats what pulled it through, same for ps2.

i dont own a 360 anymore, i sold it and then it rroded on my friend haha. laughing aside i had two friends, both with ps2's which packed in, i took them both and fixed them myself. (i'm a mechanical engineering student) however with rrod, there is nothing anyone can do but send it in.

this generation is very different to the last though, hardware issues like that with the 360 should not happen now, not with todays technology and not after already building a dvd based console previously.

[RememberThe357]

It has the right idea, by protecting gamers from broken games that are put to market. But, I think it should be left in the hands of the consumer to decide if a game is too buggy. There is just too much to take into account when trying to regulate the quality of software.

I could see this getting taken in the direction of the EU being willing to hear cases where there is a large push from consumers to have the developers/publishers take responsibility for releasing unfinished titles.

[Alcon]

Don't worry people Europe isn't like in the US where you can sue anyone for millions for any stupid thing.
I highly doubt any european court will rule against a company because his game has bugs in it.
What they say is just that they could be sued if the consumer got really ripped of, by having a game that is just not playable because of the problems it has.
But yes I do think they have to elaborate and specify when a game is deemed to buggy. But I don't think they would pass a law that is so vague that would not serve to do anything. So for now its just a proposition to make a law. They will get into details when they actualy draft the law.
I really don't see why some people here are concerned.
What they are trying to say is that if a game hits the shelves and its in reality so bad its unplayable by the consumer; the consumer can in turn sue them. Its like a car manufacturer would sell cars and all of them are faulty (not just a small percentage, like you might always expect for any product, but literrally all of them). Then as a consumer you've got the right to sue them.

[Downtown boogey]

where they got the idea fro that. 1. It's got nothing to do with most of the people 2. Even to us, hardcore gamers, it sounds preposterous

[MazzingerZ]

@darkride66
During June 2007 the European Commission was invenstigating disc scratches and did ask Microsoft about replacing all X360 in whole Europe. July 2007 Peter Moore announces the 3-year extended warranty. Coincidence? maybe not, no one knows why the EU commision didn't follow the investigation but probably that announcement was satisfactory enough and the best deal MSFT could get.

People think MSFT took responsabiltiy when during the whole time they denied the problem, it was not until they saw that not only the average Joe was sueing but Goverments started to lift the eye brow reg. the HW problem that they had no choice but introduce the 3-year warranty program.

that's Microsofot or SONY or any big corporation...

Don't know you guys but you didn't hate how bad Fallout 3 was running on the PS3?... I hade to restart the game like 4 times due to different glitches...the first time I was playing all the time in 3 person view and I thought the game was like that then I read you could play in 1st person...the game wouldn't respond to the controller (and it wasn't the controller), then the 2nd try was the opposite, couldn't switch to 3rd Pers view...the 3rd time just froze...I really hated that, payed for that?...

I sold it and have yet to play fallout 3...that was a turn off...and then you see the DLC coming just some months after release and one wonders if that DLC has anything to do with why they didn't have more time to test properly the game

I hope this Law becomes true and developers delivers more polished games...why would I like to have something released that is unplayable...GTA PS3 anybody? all those locks up and the online down randomly during the first 2 weeks? don't tell me you are ok with that...I'm not.

[vhero]

This should have come earlier then maybe orange box might have been fixed before release!

[Ghoul]

the magic word is "too" many bugs. This is only about bugfest games that rip off customers because they are unplayable.

gothic3 for example was such a game.

[MGS4474]

Socom comes to mind

[PotNoodle]

Socom was released in europe after all the bugs were fixed, on march 13th :p

[Downtown boogey]

Coincidence?

[vhero]

Orange box comes to my mind...

[KRUSSIDULL]

Far Cry 2 corrupt game files come in mind.

[Monteblanco]

I wouldn't be worried about delays if they turn out to be relatively clean games. However, it became so common to American and European developers to release half polished games with virtually no debuging that they will be unable to comply this regulation. Still, European market is big enough to justify the extra effort so it may be good in the end.

[fossilfern]

hmmm not too sure about this. It could mean we get less buggy games which is a plus but it may also mean we will get games far later than everyone else but then again that's nothing new :(

[Fishy Fingers]

Sounds good as long as it doesn't result in delays.

Only problem I can see is that many bugs/glitches dont become apparent until post launch. There is only so much game testing one can do and on a certain scale.

[The-Director]

Man this will hunt bethesda in their dreams, i love their games but they are the poster child for buggy games, they can't even get DLC right !!

[mastiffchild]

Yep, Bethesda are the king of getting the consumer to do their QA for them(and after I did some for MS on the 360 why wouldn't they?jk, jk)and patch it later.

Sonce F3 used so much of the same stuff that Oblivion did(right down to actors and recycled environments-it was THE game for deja vu)it was really poor that the game ran like cack ay launch and, frankly, I found it inexcusable from them and is exactly the kind of thng that will have sparked this interference from Brussels(shock freakin' horror). It's a good idea in theory but in practiswe will result in all kinds of game beimng unfairly treated for reasons not entirely in keeping with the spirit of the proposed legislation.

If, for instance, the censorship mad Germans feel a certain game is unfit for reasons other than glitches/bugs then they can use this to delay the release for ever-and they have so much EU power that this is my biggest worry over this. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if it was behind it in some way as the EU can be used like this with ease by the over officious and petty minded among the euro MPs as those in the know can use the red tape very well indeed to their own ends.

Im very suspicious because there's little hope of getting the whole of eirope to agree to a blanket censorship law and this is vague enough for abuse to slip in-it really is. Also getting people to agre that sub standard games should be stopped is very hard to argue against as it just looks like they're looking after the eu consumer but there will be more to this than meets the eye-bet on it:this is BAD news for EU gamers. Delays for unnamed reasons to all kind of games is what we'll get and don't be shocked if they're the same ones that thelikes of the german govt like to ban and neuter.

[Dimitri]

I AGREE WITH THIS!!!

We work hard for money, we buy a game and what do we get ??

Gears of War 2 multiplayer which takes 15 minutes EXACTLY to find a game ??

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Get a new connection.. Thats lobby waits have been fixed awhile ago. It's not always instant but it is nothing like it was when the game launched.

[Baka-akaB]

I'm all for that law , and it should be in effect everywhere .
BOundaries gotta be set , so people dont abuse from it , but stuff like those constant bethesda bugs or dlc bufgs shouldnt happen .

[peeps]

no more games this gen lol

I blame the ability for gamers to add patches. Back in the early days of the ps2 (before online), and even the xbox, but more when live was getting started; there was no real easy way for devs to fix a problem to a game, so they had to ensure the game was as bug free as it could possibly be.

Now it seems every game will always have problems but they usually get fixed down the line by an online update.

If you ask me, i'd say the developers have just gotten lazy knowing they can fix their games at a later date. Only other problem of course is that games this gen are taking a lot more time and money to develop

[Lou-Cipher]

You are 100% right on the money.

The absolute worst thing about this gen is that it has allowed developers to be way to lazy. what is wrong with making a game as great as you can before it gets put on store shelves?

They intentionally release a game that is only 80% - 90% complete and think its ok just because they can fix it later through an online patch?

What about the people that aren't online and spend their $60 on your game to not have it play properly or have it be so overwhelmed with bugs that it is not even worth playing?

If I did not have my PS3 & 360 hooked up to the internet, I would be absolutely furious that I would have to play Socom or Gears 2 or Lair without their online patches. it would not be worth the purchase if I had no online. (and DLC that should have been in the game in the first place for free, can also kiss my a$$)

Next gen consoles don't mean better graphics or better sound or a better online component, it means that the console makers and game developers have a much better way to rip off the consumer.

If they tell the game developers that they cant release a game because it is to buggy, then would they be willing to tell console makers that their console is to broken for release? cough cough xbox 360 cough cough.)

[mastiffchild]

I know the patches come to fix things but if I wasn't online what good would that do me? I live in the sticks and being disabled don't get to towns much and after the expense of one visit to buy a game(an expense in itself) why should I then have to go swap it again(Bethesda WOBT pay your travel will they?)when they said it was ready to release?

It's a selfish attitude from devs and SHOULD be stepped on sharpish but the EU aren't the ones to do it. All we'll get is more delays and people playing silent censor among the conservative prudes and liberal busybody nanny staters in the EU parliament. Brussels is full of this hidden politicking where policy is often misleading due to hidden agendas and power struggles-it prevents it from being the string single european voice that we need and deserve. I really don't want the German censor lovers(or anyone else) deciding they can stop me playing what I want.

[rhood022]

So many Bethesda jokes to choose from regarding this article.

But seriously, this is a dangerous and potentially damning law against Europe's growing gaming scene.

[ipe]

glitches of war 3 ll be only avaliable in us.Too bad 4 eu 360 owners.

[Kamikaze135]

A lot of developers aren't even aware of the bugs in their games....small developers being screwed over an innocent mistake means less developers taking chances by releasing games in EU.

[Baka-akaB]

Nope , i completely disagree .
Most indie and small dev are usually very cautious about their games and their bugs .
They dont have the luxury of a brand name or appeal to be forgiven if their game isnt playable .

Again unlike a Bethesda

[Lou-Cipher]

I disagree

If the developers don't know about the bugs in their game, then the people that will not allow them to release an extremely buggy game wont know either.

If you cant afford to hire Quality Control don't bother making your $hitty mediocre games.

When I bought GTA4 on launch day I could not even play it until they sent the PS3 owners a patch via online. I know Rockstar knew that there game was not playable yet, but they sent it out anyway knowing that they could fix it later.

We need to stop allowing these kind of people from taking advantage of us consumers.

The only part of this story that sucks is the fact that Europe is the only one so far willing to try and look out for us consumers.(come on America/Asia/rest of the world, jump on the bandwagon with Europe already)

[Erotic Sheep]

Looks like I have to import the next GTA it seems...

[retrofly]

There were sooo many bugs in world at war when it was first released it was a joke, there were even basic bugs.

There are alot of class action law suits against games, ive seen quite a few on N4G

[Tykis]

More EU delays... :(

[heyheyhey]

yeah, but... isn't it worth the wait to get a game bug-free?

it will also force developers to put more care into their games and not just produce buggy shovelware, this will result in an increase in quality across the board... although on the flip side, devs will make less money because of quality control- which results in less cash flow for other games by the same publisher

i'm for it though

[LightofDarkness]

Actually, this is a law I can get behind. I think it's time someone put the squeeze on devs releasing shoddy wares and substandard ports. Missing their release window incurs more cost to the developer and publisher, thus creating an incentive to ensure that they take the proper time and care to release a quality product, instead of cutting corners to maximize profits at the expense of their customer satisfaction.

[CSM-101e]

this is dumb; all software has bugs. who decides how much is 'too' much, and at what point? impossible to enforce the way i imagine it's envisioned. and, of course, there will be an 'intent to patch' defense.

[Baka-akaB]

A line got to be drawn , videogames are basically the only product that isnt regulated this way . As a paid product some level of quality should be expected .

The law will probably be very easy to bend , and light , however it will at least set a bare minimum wich is really needed .

[Rifle-Man]

If we had a law like this when Fallout 3 was released I would've been able to change my hairstyle.

But I couldn't.

And it sucked.

And it would've made up completely for the crappy ending.

Bethesda, you suck.

[ElementX]

I guess Europeans will be getting games 6 months after the rest of the world? Personally, I'd rather buy a game with bugs and download a patch than wait for them to iron out all the bugs, that would push games back too far. As long as the bugs aren't game crashing, then it's fine to release software with a few bugs.

[xino]

yes you made a good point!

But because of this download content and patch releases. This still makes Developers lazy, because they rely on this method all the time.

During the 5th gen (Snes, Mega Drive), games had less bugs!

[xino]

I agree with this plan!
Developers are now becoming lazy and milking how money by releasing buggy games.

Alot of EU gamers must really be pissed off than I am when they played Ninja Gaiden 2! Don't forget Wolverine's Origin, a lot of gamers still can't even farking run the game on PC!

Sure it cost a lot to make games, in the end you gain a lot! Because customers/gamers will buy your game costing $50. So 50 times about 90,000 gamers!? That's a lot. Don't forget deals with other retailers.

So why should they be making buggy games!?
Yes making a game that wouldn't contain any bug is impossible and will take countless delays. But if developers can make a game with less bugs, then that's fine! Less bugs like Gears of War 1 graphics problems. Rather than Ninja Gaiden 2 bug problems O_o

But I wouldn't complain because I haven't really encounter games with frusrtating bugs lately. Recently getting a PS mother farking 3 and earning 5 games in no time. I have seen no annoying bugs yet:/

Yes, I agree with this plan! We are not fools.

[devilhunterx]

HERE THAT M$!!?

[Evocation]

I'm for this, As long as the rules are sensible. Not, My guns sticking thought the wall a little bit. I was to sue for £1,000,000,000.

But the amount of games I've failed to finish or **** me off no end because of some annoying bug. I was quite late to get the internet so had no way of patching.

My best example would be BG2:TOB added a bug where charactered would be busy and unable to talk to. the only way for me to get around this was to save and reload.. sometimes for hours before I could finally progress. I quit and had to wait ages till I finally was able to patch and finish the game.

The fact is that for the most part alot of these bugs wouldn't make it into the software is this was "professional" software where they knew that a bug wouldn't be tolerated.

[no-spin]

wow europeans are really tough nails. goos job in holdind sellers responsible for defective products. that is the way to go

[CPmonkey]

All this will cause is delays for euro releases, leading to people buying software from abroad (if its multi region) thus meaning less money for europe thanks to game sales.

[Gun_Senshi]

Good Law, I am paying FULL Price. If I pay full price, I except to buy a finished product, not a beta of a game that maybe they release patches to fix.

[A LIVING LEGEND]

would be a welcome idea.Yes,that includes YOU EA and Bethesda (*looks out window,sees nothing unusual,sighs in relief*)
For example,the recent Wanted;Weapons of fate.This game is so glitch and bug infested as to be nearly unplayable,including one interesting bug that requires you to re-install the game because some of the collectibles either don't appear/or appear but don't register if you acquire them,preventing you from getting the collectibles trophy.
It was thankfully only a rental but it's retail price is hardly justifiable.
Game developers must be held to a higher standard,the majority of them to be sure.This notion that releasing unfinished ,glitch ridden trash is acceptable as long a miracle 'patch' follows shortly thereafter is an unfortunate,yet increasing trend.Fallout3 being a prime example.Nearly unplayable at release,WHY?.......I know why and so do you and so does Bethesda.One good patch will fix it all,dont worry the SOCOM crew has assured us.I want my 70.00$ back,or at least half of it.=)

[rbluetank]

gears series is a good example of dev first and customers second.... the first game is acceptable because of the first time on a new nxt gen hardware. they learned alot from the first time around. gears2 is straight up junk... the AI is a total joke. the enemy jusy stare you down before running at you at times. they do not even try to out flank your position. most of the time they are like a fly on fly paper. (stuck on stupid) the fake supped up bullet system from your enemies to make it appears they are smarter or faster; when they are the same trash can heads from the first one. their is still less then 8 enemies on the screen at one time. the frame rate on sp/horde drops down to choppy and unplayable at times online/offline at times when things heat up... there is a lot of online and offline glicthes as well. the glitches in this game is unbeliveable. i seen to many to describe or explain. where in the fvk is bigger better,and badass. in closing fvk the series. i am not supporting a beat down engine or carpetbagger bastronie dev anymore. yes i will not be buying any of their games Batman/agency/sector 8/mass effect2/bioshock2/woverine ect... all of these games will move slow,load slow and tear into focus and have that greased over look or have that bland color look like infinte discover... quality over quanity should always be respected....!!!

[Socomer 1979]

Somehow Sony is behind this. They want to lift the wool of of peoples eyes.
I say; money well spent Sony.

[Vortex3D]

Part of the problem why games this gen are so buggy is the gamers. I keep hearing "Can't wait", "want to play the game now", etc also caused the publishers to release new games half baked. Every time a publisher delayed a game, I hear so many gamers complain because they "can't wait".

So, is it more fun to buy a buggy game released before it's fully baked and have to patch it later just to be able to play it? By the time the game is patched to be less buggy/playable, it would have been about the same time as if the game was delayed and fully baked that is playable from the day 1.

I don't buy new games anymore because I'm not going to spend $60 on the game and couldn't even play it because it's so buggy. If I have to wait until the game is properly patched, then why not wait? Often the price of the games have dropped.

If you go to the restaurant and demand the meal is cooked as fast as possible before it's done, would you want to eat it if it's only half baked?

I know many gamers will disagree with my comments. As long publishers get their money from the gamers who are willing to buy buggy games and deal with patching it later, we will continue to see buggy games coming out.

Best strategy is if you don't like buggy games, don't buy it. It's the only way to tell the publishers.

[Solid_Malone]

i think it'll be good, it'd mean there'll be more betas for more games (thats if the devs are willing the public stress test their games.)

[A LIVING LEGEND]

You nailed it,a novel idea.Who better to test upcoming games than the very people who intend on buying them and what better time than now.We gamers are a discerning lot,we know quality and we can spot trash,as long as we are afforded the opportunity.More betas and more feedback from gamers equates to a better finished product which in turn translates to (hopefully) better sales.Everyone wins,in effect.
Bubbles to M4I0N,a very good and overlooked point.=)

[mastiffchild]

But we're talking about the most slow moving, red tape filled and easily abused parliament there is. It's full of people wanting to look after their own, and their countries' interests above those of the EU as a whole and the spirit of said legislation. If we imagine that gamers would have much to do with any decisions we're mental.

This just gives people with the power another chance to stop games they don't like, for whatever reason, from coming out either on time or at all in the EU. This will just mean more delays and fewer releases at the end of the day however well meant the initial law makng may have been(and I'm not convinced over that personally). People with an agenda will hide behind this as a means to an end mark my words. It always happens.

[Solid_Malone]

hehe, thanks mate :)

[A LIVING LEGEND]

I can see and understand why you would have certain reservations,a fews ago a few U.S. congressmen/women attempted to use video games as a vehicle for political a political agenda entirely their own.
I am Canadian,so I was relatively unnafected,but I can fully imagine the maneuvering involved.Having said that,I can also sympathise with those who want to hold the gaming industry to a higher standard,but only if said standard is not afflicted with political agenda and selfish aspirations.So,in truth,can such a standard exist,one designed for the gaming industry,free of hidden agendas?
Honestly,I would like to believe it could yet i can understand why concerns exist.You bring up good points,thought provoking to be sure.=)

[CarbonFiber51]

Did someone say Orange Box? Fallout 3?

[BrianC6234]

That would sure be funny. European gamers complain enough as it is when they have to wait longer than the US for games. If the games have to be perfect I guess we'll get them first in the US and the bugs can be fixed over six months to a year. After we've helped make the games perfect Europe can get them.

Good thing for PS3 owners in Europe they can always buy US games and play them. They better hope this idea doesn't pass. Sure it would be nice to have bug free games but they're just so complicated now. It's impossible to make them bugfree. Politicians should worry about things like jobs and the economy.

[ropelli90]

Less games for Europeans and even greater delays! Yeah! Who cares if there is a bug here or there? And the reviewers tell you if there are lots of bugs in a game. I won't buy games that have bugs everywhere.

I'm hoping that this is not a plan to ban all video games in EU.

If they want to improve some laws that affect gamers in europe, there are way better things to do. Let's forbid the 1$=1£=1.5€ prices and delays that are greater than a month or so.

Quality games are fine but they shouldn't care if there's some crappy games out there. Mafia is still a great game, the bugs only make me laugh because they are so funny.