Gears boss on 360's limits: "There's still more it can do"

VG247: Gears of War 2 executive producer Rod Fergusson has told VG247 that innovations in both games software and Microsoft services mean we've yet to see the limit of what can be achieved with Xbox 360.

[GWAVE]

Let's hope so. I just pray that the "more it can do" goes beyond Unreal Engine. I want to see someone make a true proprietary engine on the 360 that pushes it to the limits. I'm sick of the greasy, blocky-head look of all these UE3 games when the 360 hardware can do more.

[TIKUP]

dude your on a role, i was thinking the same thing ;)

bubble up mate +

[Rofflecopter]

after playing gears 2 extensively over the past few months this quote really tickled..

The [Unreal] engine is evolving - it evolved dramatically from Gears 1 to Gears 2 - and I think you’ll see people continue to push that envelope about how they use the memory, and how they use the hard drive, and all those sort of things.

dramatically? seriously?

[lowcarb]

If you experienced both then there would not even be an argument because neither console is better than the other.

[Anon1974]

I remember when Gears came out I was like "Finally, the next gen is here! Can't wait to see what comes out next!"

And I waited. And waited. Started getting into my PS3 while my 360 was off getting repaired. And waited.

Gears was a huge leap from what had come before on the 360 and I had really hoped the bar would continue to be raised. There were a few good titles, but in my opinion nothing touched Gears. Finally when Gears 2 came out it looked slightly better but was more of the same. That's not a bad thing because Gears was a great game, but looked the same, played the same. I had played Resistance 2 and became used to these giant, chaotic battles with multiple enemies and action all around. Killzone 2 was the same, it's crazy the amount that's going on in that game. In Gears 2 you have one guy on the screen and 3 bugs running at you.
Are you kidding me? I want a 30-40 bugs running at me, and crazy explosions! It seemed pretty obvious to me while playing Gears 2 that "This is pretty much it for the 360. Surely if it could be doing more, it would be doing more. It's not, the PS3 is." Until that changes I can't really see my 360 getting much play over the next couple of years. 360 fans can claim "It's not tapped out, not tapped out" all they want but until I see proof of that in the games, it's really just speculation. It did have a good run up until 2007 though. 2007 was a great year to own a 360.

[The Lazy One]

if you think that's all the unreal engine can do, you really need to look into what games are developed with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

EndWar, Rainbow 6 Vegas/2, Xmen Origins, The Agency, Mirror's edge, I am Alive, Borderlands, APB, Batman: arkham asylum, etc. I suppose all those look just like gears too.

Art style isn't engine restrictive.

[Pennywise]

I have friends with the 360 lowcarb. I have played both.

[DARK WITNESS]

to be honest, i am more of a 360 fan and i hate the unreal 3 engine. There have been a few good games made with it, but most of them have been trash.

I don't think its shows off the 360 well. As far as i am concerned Farcry 2 was one of the best looking games on the 360 ( the game sucked in manyways ) but visually, the lighting etc i thought was much better then gears 2.

I really would like to see more dev's using these other engines and not just using the unreal engine.

and yes, half the updated stuff they showed about unreal didn't translate well into the final game that was gears 2. all that destructible stuff they showed off, what did we get in the final game ? a block of cover with a layer of chocolate over it. it was so predictable and so scripted most of the time i hardly noticed it.

Farcry ran with hardly any issues at all and i didn't notice any texture popin , it was that game that convinced me there is more they can get out of it and with the announcement of cryengine for 360 and ps3, i am sure we will start to see more dev's using other engines.

i also thought dead space was one of the best looking games i had seen in a while. I think it was underrated on the graphics department. it was another game with hardly any issues at all.

[All-3]

It's the Game Developers --> NOT the game engine that dictates the graphics of a game.

Mirror's Edge used the Unreal Engine 3.0

Lost Odyssey used the Unreal Engine 3.0

Hail to the Chimp used the Unreal Engine 3.0

The Agency is using the Unreal Engine 3.0...

Which one of those games look anything like Gears of War or Gears of War 2?

---

--> true... its gotten to a point that by just by looking at a game you can tell its running on unreal... texture pop ins... brown grey colour and rusted metals.. but it has some really good shadow and lightning work ..something thats still evident on games like bioshock

Errrr --> Killzone 2 HAS pop-ins... and it most certainly ISN'T/WASN'T the most colorful game was it?

LOL --> There's no color restriction because of the game engine... Hail to the Chimp used the Unreal Engine, as did Mirror's Edge for examples.

---

Fergusson was quoted previously as saying the box had been maxed out, a comment he told us was taken out of context.

It sure was... Here's what Fergusson actually said --> in its entirety:

In a wide-ranging interview with Gamasutra, Gears of War 2 senior producer Rod Fergusson was asked about the state of the 360's lifespan, and he had an intriguing answer. "I'm not the technical guy, so my ability to speak to where the engine goes is -- all I know is that with the two to three more years of optimization that we've had, we're much further along than I think, three years ago, we thought we were going to get," Fergusson said. "So I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar."

But before you freak out at the thought of needing to buy new Xbox hardware any time soon, Fergusson quickly elaborated that there's more juice to squeeze out of the 360 yet. "I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress," he said. "There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

NOTE --> Fergusson quickly elaborated that there's more juice to squeeze out of the 360 yet. "I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress," he said. "There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

[crillyconlig]

mirrors edge used a very heavily modified unreal engine

[IcarusOne]

This article sounds like back-peddling. I love Gears 2, and the graphical improvements were nice, but I wouldn't say it was a huge jump. The awesomeness of the game comes from the mayhem, especially in Horde.

I'd like to see a new 360 engine. UE does a lot of things nicely but it also lacks a lot of finesse. In that regard, it's like an American muscle car. I'd like to see a Ferrari. If that's possible. At this point, I question how much more can be squeezed out of the console.

But don't read into this too much. I love 360 and am more than satisfied with my gaming experiences on it.

[JokesOnYou]

@IcarusOne, I agree, I said above I would love to see a new engine pushing the 360, I just thought all the bashing was ridiculous.

@why o why, I've made it pretty clear what I think about UE, ps3 games, 360 games and what I think about this current thread so its not like another explanation/response to what you say is going to make any difference. Clearly I don't believe the things YOU and the rest of the sony loyalists say, I know, I know thats because I need to pull my head out of the sand....and clearly YOU believe my point of view is worthless, so really whats else is left to say to you on this topic?

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion at the same time both our opinions are subject to criticism, its evident to me that those who constantly attack as you do are simply hating to justify their purchase which is why YOU and those like you are constantly flaming 360. I have real concerns about both consoles, which I own but I'm also not shy about admitting I heavily favor 360, but you don't see me constantly bashing ps3 either and its not because I don't have plenty bad to say about it but simply because I don't feel the need to show up on every ps3 thread with MY "criticism".

One thing I know for sure is NOBODY comes to n4g to get a balance opinion about games or the games industry, because everybody knows in the sea of comments there is usually like 2 or 3 who are informed and neutral gamers, ha ha and I'm sure that doesn't describe me or YOU, some like me come for hopefully a decent piece of news here and there and for entertainment because the reality of it is the public will speak much louder with their wallets same as they did last gen and every other gen before. EnJOY your day, sir.=

JOY

[Marojado]

As i've said before, graphically we are starting to see enhancements slowing down generation to generation, but that is because modern games are starting to focus on the subtle differences. The things that can be done with a decent physics engine are unbelievable. Dont get me wrong, the games this generation are spectacular looking, but the step up from last generation has been in lighting, physics, and just the general scale of immersion in games. As long as developers strive to improve, we'll see growth on all consoles over the next few years.

[I did not murder him]

Open zone is over there. That hit home didn't it. Enjoy your PS3 and let the 360 gamers enjoy their news in peace. You're reacting like I cursed your mother.

[I did not murder him]

You have issues and your insecurities show with your teenager attitude attacking and defending PS3 for no reason this isn't even a PS3 story.
Sony has a lineup where is it? GT5 pushed back until 2010 whats next out of the fictional PS3 2009 lineup?

[JBaby343]

You're known for attacking PS3 and defending 360 as you are now. Hypocrite much? Come on POG/Why Dis, we all know you know the PS3 line-up better than most PS3 fans. Infamous, Uncharted 2, R&C:Crack in Time are just a few bright spots.

[I did not murder him]

The irony forget where you are? also read your comments again.

I simply mentioned I see the same PS3 fans in all the 360 stories commenting first. Not the same thing you're doing. What you are doing is blind crazy fanboyism.

[JBaby343]

Not even close. All I said was the 360 needs to show something or else it is probably tapped out and then I called you out. Not blind fanboyism at all. Nice try though. I still have yet to see you refute anything I posted. You just keep changing the subject and deflecting. Anything else or are we done here?

[CaseyRyback_CPO]

And it wasn't because gears1 has been any sort of graphical king since launch. I think its time to accept that.
The unreal engine is great due to its sdk/documentation/support. Its not so great when it comes to game technicals. Which is seen in every single title that the unreal engine has ever created, including its flagship proprietary version of the engine for Gears 1 & 1.5.

Pretending that KZ2 is the only game that out performs Gears is either showing that you are truly blind, or just plain lying. MGS4 runs marathons around Gears, as does Uncharted,Motorstorm2,MLB08,LB P, and Gran turismo from technical standpoints. The engine is weak due to the only latest in technology being normal maps.

Theres a reason the Unreal ENgine isn't highlighted at GDC while other engiens are. Because its frankly old technology that doesn't necessarily need to do new things, because it does the old things so well.

But dont try to sit here and pretend that its old loading hallways and popin is superior to 720p Stream Loading Uncharted. I'm sorry, thats just false. ITs almost as if every ps3 exclusive finishes off the unreal engine, but with a special fatality move. LBP has its sheer number of textures/realtime physics/models/framerate that would make the 360 more than likely overheat.I'd love to see you find any source that could be used to compare any unreal engine title, vs any ps3 exclusive title showing the unreal engine in a favorable light.

Its not a PS3 user issue since the PS3 runs UT3 perfectly fine. Which rein said was more advanced than Gears, so there goes that argument. You can try to pretend is a PS3 vs 360 thing, but its not. The unreal engine is a mess when it comes to technically pushing games forward. THats why all the titles you've mentioned, although having different art styles, all have the exact same unreal engine limitations of low detail. not a ton of texture variety, not a ton of polygons on screen, not really doing anything well, but doing a number of things well enough. I think everyone has caught on to this, and its how the PC gaming community caught onto this years ago.

Epic was lucky to introduce Gears to the console world, because they could repeat their unremarkable history as a technically advanced engine developer in this world. Think about the fact that all games should look like Crysis and PS3 exclusives in 2009, because thats where the technology is in its current state.

Not a loading elevator or Resident Evil 1 style loading Doorway. I know you cant help defending it, because well.. its all you have. But seriously look at screenshots of Uncharted Vs Gears, I'd love for you to point out 1 single thing that Gears does better from a game engine standpoint.

As far as your popularity argument goes, I guess WiiFit is superior to crysis then.

This was deleted why? Which zone rules does it break?

[kaveti6616]

I totally agree, man. Yesterday I posted about how the 360 has yet to see a true proprietary engine even after 4 years on the market. The Unreal Engine is awesome but as you can see by what the Playstation 3 is accomplishing, custom made engines can more efficiently exploit the power of consoles. I'm kind of surprised that Ferguson is the one saying this, as it is kind of his fault that we as gamers don't see better looking games on the 360. The UE3 is slow to upgrade and its advancements are not mindblowing because the software is just too familiar nowadays, and not only that, but the Unreal Engine 3 has been licensed by numerous developers for hundreds of games. Had it not been for that, we would have been seeing more inhouse engines built from the ground up for the 360. If only Microsoft provided more software support for the hardware, rather than throwing money at 3rd party devs. My guess is that since MS has been quiet for a great deal of time (since 08 even, excluding Gears 2), maybe they've hired some new devs to work on creating a stronger game engine for the xbox.

[NickIni]

Windwaker art style please.

That's such an underrated game imo :) So many people brush it aside.

[7thNightvolley]

Moderator is on a ROLL!!!

[zonetrooper5]

Mirrors Edge runs on the UE3 engine and it looks great, it really depends on whether the developer is willing to go the extra mile to make a great looking game or just keep the default stuff.

[kaveti6616]

Mirror's Edge runs on a heavy modded UE3 in ADDITION to a custom lighting engine, I forget what it's called. Even so, many of the glitches that gamers encounter with games that use the Unreal Engine, such as texture pop-ins, are ever present in Mirror's Edge and acclaimed titles like Bioshock and Gears. I don't know why the problem is prevalent with UE3, but it is, and EPIC hasn't fixed it. It's nice to see the UE3 being used in different ways, but at the same time it sucks to see that the UE3 is being used so often. If I were Microsoft I would have hired a development company to create a custom engine for the 360. The hardware has loads of potential, and if it's never explored I just don't think I can endure ignorant Fanboy criticism from the Sony guys.

[OmarJA]

Beside being a heater it can also be used as a toaster... :D

[DNAgent]

If you don't mind eating burnt toast.

[ZyKlOn]

Gears 2 dev suggests the Xbox 360 is shifting into the back-end of its graphical lifespanEvery console lifecycle has one thing in common: As the hardware gets on in age and developers get more comfortable with it, graphics get better. And according to Epic Games, who you will of course know as the developers of the graphical powerhouse Gears of War series, the Xbox 360 may be nearing the apex of its potential. http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

[ZyKlOn]

WHY GEARS OF WAR 2 SUCKED,AND WHY GEARS 3 WILL SUCK

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

The PS3 is just a storage unit for game data.

[Kleptic]

seriously jason?...that is your rebuttal to all this?...I should throw a brick at you...

[infekt]

Awww. I guess back-tracking is a b!tch. Just like the 360. :) Suck it!

[PotNoodle]

It would be silly to think otherwise.

Neither the PS3 or 360 will hit their limit for a good few years to come. The PS2 didn't hit what could be called its limit till its 7th or 8th year.

Both consoles have much more they can do.

[Unknown]

Most times when I hear people say that the 360 is maxed out, I know that they're either a "newbie" to the tech/game industry or just a rabid fanboy/girl. The PS2 is a prime example of a console that though less powerful that the competition, still produced games that where arguably graphically superior to those on say the xbox. As I've stated in my post before, KZ2 isn't the end all be all of graphics this gen. If you think that you have low expectations. I knew that the KZ2 trailer wasn't impossible the first time I seen it and I also know that the 360 and PS3 will produce games that trump these graphics. Its a great time to be a gamer.

[Anon1974]

But if it's not maxed out, how come the games have hardly improved since Gears came out in 2006? If it is capable of more, let's see it.

[PotNoodle]

This isn't a dig at the 360 before you all start raging at me (Sad i have to explain myself everytime i post something here)

But i'd imagine that is because there are very limited amount of developers that have worked/are working with the 360 exclusively with nothing but the 360 in mind.

Like sony's first party developers know they will be only developing that game for the PS3 and the PS3 only, quite a few exclusive 3rd party 360 games had a strong chance of going over to the PS3 simply because they were only exclusive to the 360 for either a certain time period or just because they couldn't put out a PS3 version at that time for whatever reason.

Developers will always get better results knowing they only have to think about one platform, at least from a technical aspect.

[The Lazy One]

just because you don't think the games have improved doesn't mean they haven't.

I could ask why games haven't improved on the PS3 since heavenly sword just like you're saying about gears. That doesn't make it true by any means.

And if you think Gears 2 was only a slight step up, you need to look at some side by side comparisons again.

[Elvfam511]

Gears 2 is the only game that shows the power thats using the Unreal engine if you think games are evolving by looking like the same that fine so be it

[Anon1974]

Maybe my recollection of the first game isn't what I think it is.
http://www.pwnordie.com/blo...
http://www.videogamer.com/f...

Ok, call me crazy but now that I'm seeing them side by side, Gears 2 doesn't look much better at all, only different. Marcus seems a bit more detailed. Other than that the lighting is different and the textures are different. Not better, just different. Actually, I'm surprised how similar everything looks. And, my eyes aren't decieving me here, they just blurred the hell outta Gears 2. I never noticed that while I was playing it.

Also, if I'm wrong about 360 games since Gears I could very well have missed something. I played a lot on my 360 in 2007 with Bioshock, DeadRising, Halo3 - and those were really the heavy hitters but I still think Gears has those 3 beat. Actually, come to think of it I think RE5 might look better than Gears 2, but it's pretty close.

[SoapShoes]

PS2 was hard to develop for, hence why it took so long to see games like God of War 2(and that was because of the talent behind the team). 360 is basically just a computer architecture, it's easy to develop for. Sure it's not maxed out, but they're closer than they are with the PS3 because they already know how to efficiently squeeze the juice out of that system.

Comparing the graphics improvments from PS2 to 360 is asinine. It would be better suited to compare 360 to the original Xbox. The original Xbox started out with great graphics and didn't improve a whole lot through the end of its life cycle. Nothing compared to PS2. PS2 went from looking worse than Dreamcast to just as good as Xbox in certain games.

[The Lazy One]

There's also a lot more polys/characters on screen(the first games limit was maxed at around 10), and draw distances that were never seen in the first game. The textures are much better, and the lighting is leaps and bounds ahead of the first one. They physics in Gears 2 are also a lot better.

I don't know what else you expect them to improve from game to game if that's not enough for you.

[dirthurts]

I don't think it's as much the engine needs to be changed, as much as it just needs some improvements. The engine is capable of many different looks. I mean, mirrors edge, rainbow six...they are both on the unreal engine. The blocky head look is just from the developers who choose to go for that look. I doubt it will ever change much though...the look associated with the game is part of makes it gears.

[OmarJA]

It really sad that there's not enough first party developers to take an advantage of that 512MB ram memory... :D

[ZyKlOn]

WHY MICROSOFT LIED

[MGOelite]

I CALL BS! please explain why gears 1 and 2 look near dam it the same on the graphics side of thing, sure gears 2 is more open but the textures are the same

[Kamikaze135]

They're trying to make the 360 seem like it's the best thing to happen to humanity.....when in reality, all the games that look good are those that run on an outdated engine.

[DJ]

Because unless you deliver, no one's going to believe you. And they still haven't, even with Gears 2.

[Anon1974]

It was more of the same with a slight graphical advantage over the original, but it was still a hell of a lot of fun. That's what's important.

Still, I know what you mean. We've seen PS3 games improve by leaps and bounds over the past couple of years and everything we see on the horizon looks like there's no slowing down. The 360 has kind of flatlined.

[Robearboy]

i think the cry engine and the one that capcom uses (cant remember the name) will push the 360 alot futher the ue3, ue3 have made some really good games but like people has suggested, its been used too much by devs who just want to get the games released without really exploring its potential and limits

[2FootYard]

Its too bad your talking to yourself in here.

[Elvfam511]

your talking to him

[OmarJA]

It's the open zone i'm just having some fun, no hard feelings... :D

Good one Elvfam511. :D

[San Frandisco]

oh,dont foget me :)

[Elvfam511]

I still think the Xbox 360 can really pull off a amazing graphical and gameplay game w/o the unreal engine

Dev's should say no to the unreal engine and all get together and make one

[divideby0]

with all the PS3 news...someone had to say something positive about the 360, since it seems of late the power of the PS3 is being talked about

[Elvfam511]

should update us on the jasper models that should be positive since i haven't heard anything bad

[DragonWarrior_4]

I want something other then Gears of War. The game was okay,, totally overrated though imho. They are good tech devs, but Epic really doesn't know how to make a good multiplayer game. They patched up Gears and put a bootleg level system. Why would they even embarrass themselves like that when games like Modern Warfare and Killzone 2 are around? They obviously dont know what the hardcore gamer wants out of their online experience.

[Elvfam511]

gears 1 was fine in the multiplayer part idk what happen when they was making part 2

[byeGollum]

Capcom are doing some cool stuff with the MT Framework 2.0, take a look at LostPlanet 2 . . RE5 was a good looking game too Multiplatform or not..

but i agree with the ppl above, i wanna see other engines shine on 360 apart from UE3

[2FootYard]

I'm not actually angry. I too just like to come in here and mess around.

[ActionBastard]

Then do it!!!! Gears 2 sure as sh!t didn't prove anything. Nor did Fable 2. Or Banjo. Or Halo 3. Or Halo Wars. Or any other 1st party title. The 360s graphics are capped. And it shows.

[Shane Kim]

That is called facts, not messing around.

[Jdoki]

MS were actually really quite smart by using Epic for Gears. Epic basically created a tech demo for what the UE3 engine could do on 360.

UE3 is a affordable, easy to develop for, and a mature product - so for many devs it's a no brainer to use it on the 360, especially as they essentially get a PS3 version for 'free' by porting it. But the fact it's a multiplatform engine does mean that it will never extract 100% from the 360.

When you look at games like Uncharted, KZ2, and Ratchet & Clank - they all look stunning and (arguably) better than anything on 360. The reason for this is simple... They run on proprietry engines designed to extract the maximum from the PS3. Epic will always have to split their resources between optimising Unreal Engine for PS3, 360 and newer PC hardware - it's a jack of all trades, master of none.

Another problem MS have is that they have so few 1st/2nd party devs that they are lacking two things... 1. Developers who can extract the max from the console, and 2. A close-knit developer network to share knowledge.

Insomniac are now a 'center of excellence' for the PS3 and help out other devs with technical issues. Guerilla games do the same. If you look in the credits of many 1st/2nd and even 3rd party games there will often be a credit to Insomniac or other big PS3 devs.

However, I agree with Fergusson's statement... The 360 is still not maxed out, but the rate of improvement for the 360's graphics is slowing down, whereas the PS3's is accelerating.

[Heldrasil]

UE3 < MT Framework

Capcom's engine for RE5 outshines anything UE3 has shown.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

In other words

The 360 has been maxed out for some time now. Gears of War 1 looks better than GeoW2.

[KingKionic]

gears of war 2 looks better then the first in its single player. multiplayer graphics no.

[dylantalon]

dont swallow the bullsh*t , the proof is in the pudding . i understand he must hype fanboys, and the rest that dont know about the consoles but 4 years ago in 2005 i bought the xbox 360 and ive seen the progression in games myself. all the graphical and physical capabilities were seen in gears 1 since 2006 and thats where most of the consoles capabilities lies . gears 2 was utter rubbish but the fanboys and others who doesnt know better hype it as being good. gears 3 will look the same, and suffer from the same issues like gears 1 and 2 did.

the xbox 360 cant even produce anything better than a 2007 game for the ps3 called uncharted. listen, i have a xbox 360 and majority of the games suffer from slowdowns, glitches, lags and pop in textures. perfect dark 0, prey, test drive unlimited, oblivion, gears 1, gears 2, halo 3, mass effect, forza 2, s.o. 4 all suffered from negative issues. my other xbl is ck1talon.

the proof is in the pudding and i can see that 90% the ps3 exclusives are way better than xbox 360s exclusives on a technological aspect. better graphics , better physics, more ai, smarter ai, no lag online, more people online.

ps. the talon stands for talented

[Jdoki]

I agree, but that doesn't stop a game being fun.

I'm happy to forgive a game a few glitches, slow-downs, pop-ins if it's good fun. Gears 2 was fun (although on the whole I think it's a bit overrated).

Until I played Killzone 2 I thought Gears 2 was the best looking game I had played. Art direction counts for a lot.

[DARK WITNESS]

i would say i agree with both of you on most points.

there have been some good looking games that have not had any issues. i thought dead space was one of them, art direction wise i liked it a lot more then gears 2 ( though you could say its more a matter of personal taste when it comes to that ).

as stated though, just because a game is technically better does not mean its more fun. I thought forza 2 was boring, I got GT prologue as well, it looked better but i found it just as boring. i ended up getting rid of both games and i feel like i am still waiting for a good racing game i can get hooked on.

i still think the 360 has got more to show, i think its more a case of dev's just have not been doing so much with whats available. going for the cheap option, but who can blame them.

[PirateThom]

I have said it on many occasions, everyone and their dog knows the 360 is capable of far more.

However, we're never going to see it.

The most graphically advanced 360 game runs on a multiplatform engine that has seen better days.

The first party 360 games aren't graphical masterpieces.

There's no one there pushing the 360.

When you build a game engine from the ground up, as many devs have been forced to do for PS3, the results speak for themselves.

Uncharted vs Gears of War will forever be my example. They both look the similar in terms of the basic graphics, but Uncharted is more colourful, there's more enemies on screen, the AI is better, better animations, the enviornments are bigger, clothes became wet and dried. I have no doubt if Gears of War was recreated with an engine built specifically for 360, it would probably have had an engine that rivalved Uncharted.

Anyone who is happy with Unreal Engine 3 and thinks Gears of War 2 is a graphical masterpiece really needs to experience these PS3 custom engines. They've really b!tch slapped UE3 in so many ways.

Middleware will never be better than custom built engine.

[DX F3NIX]

360 blows PS3 all the way for me...

[Coolrah]

They probaly haven't maxed out the 360 but they haven't maxed out the ps3 neither so meh...does it really matter?....All that matters is the here and now and right now ps3 has more graphical better games than 360 atm so my 360 shall collect dust until ME2 (exclusiviley comes out)

[Kufi-]

yes it can do more (one more enemy on screen)

[djtek184]

lol! good one

[Unicron]

UE3 is played out. It's all flash and no substance in many cases. Walk towards any glowing light in the caves in Gears 2, it's just a post processing effect, it won't dynamically light your character in most cases. Hell most of their explosions and fire effects are nothing more than 2d. Great game, aged engine.

The 360 is not played out however, it would be foolish to assume that. The question is, who will step up? I think the first truly impressive non-UE3 based game will be Alan Wake.

[green]

I don't know why everyone uses Gears 2 as the benchmark for graphics on the 360 because in my opinion, resident evil 5 looks better than gears 2 and banjo :Nuts and bolts looks better than both.

[Nexy]

The ONLY game that looks better than Gears of War 2 is Killzone 2 and that's only because SONY spent so much money and time to focus on this game's visuals. Uncharted comes close but this is because it's so colorful so some ignorant people can believe it's a very graphically advanced game.

The truth is that GeoW 2 infuriates many PS3 fanboys who want to believe PS3 is more technologically advanced. GeoW 2 simply proves otherwise. So do quite a few multiplatfprm games actually. Assassin's Creed for one is at least as good as Uncharted but the AS's world is much bigger which makes Uncharted look cartoonish. RE5 or Dead Space look better than 99% of PS3 best-looking exclusives. You just need to own both cosnoles to see this.

In fact, the technological difference is almost non-existent and only if SONY decides to spend years of development and loads of money.

[AK46]

who cares if sony spends alot of money on their games, not like its coming out of my pocket anyway, just as long it keeps on producing great games.

[KingsofOmega]

by the end of its lifecycle it can pull level with Uncharted 1.

Proof: http://kineticninja.blogspo...

[Sonyfanclubpresident]

take a look at Lost Planet 2 on the 360,then come back here and talk smack.
Capcom says,there's still some life in the old boy (360).

[Jecht]

..is that The Last Remnant says Hi.

[commodore64]

I am looking forward to seeing cryengine3 for consoles and Alan wake.

Who knows what else will come from third party developers?
The longer it's out and the more install base it has, the more developers will seek to publish content on it. That's just obvious!

Developers may also see the relatively disappointing KZ2 sales and wonder if the extra effort is worth it on ps3.

In light of all this, I have a funny feeling the 360 will be wowing and entertaining gamers for a long time to come, at an unbeatable pricepoint.

[Anon1974]

But I'm not holding my breath.

"Developers may also see the relatively disappointing KZ2 sales and wonder if the extra effort is worth it on ps3."

Yeah, or they may see a game that's already sold over a million copies in a month, something that only 10% of games ever do in their entire lifespans.
They may also look at things like Take Two's revenue for 2008 and conclude that even though GTA4 sold almost a million more copies on the 360, 34% of their revenue comes from the PS3 compared to 39% from the 360. That's pretty damn close considering there's apparently 8 million more 360's out there. You can be sure that developers aren't missing those type of numbers or that multiconsole games usually sell similarly on both consoles despite the 360's bigger installed base. I do agree with the price point, though. If all you want is just a gaming console, you can't go wrong with the 360 at that price.

Here, let me google that for you, champ.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=take+t...
:)

[fossilfern]

"I am looking forward to seeing cryengine3 for consoles and Alan wake. "

Cryengine 3 thats on PS3 and Alan Wake thats also on PC ? Im sorry regardless the 360 has nothing impressive of its own

[commodore64]

Oh there you are, darkie.
Didn't think you'd be too far away... I am starting to think you don't have anything better to do. No matter.

Fact is, KZ2 sales are disappointing, given the hype, given the furore, given the fact it is an excellent game.
If you are honest, I think you'll agree.

Despite your 'take two' spin, you'll also have to agree that 'take two' made more money on the 360, again. Normal variance aside, only a fool would prefer to sell less software overall.

Developers may also look at recent EA sales data, where the 360 outsold the ps3 in the last TWO quarters.
http://files.shareholder.co...

What's even MORE telling is in EA Q2FY2009, the 360 outsold BOTH ps3 and ps2 COMBINED by about $70 million. Wow... just wow!

Just imagine, PS2 and PS3 had a combined install base of 160 Million, yet were absolutely trounced by the 360 at 28 million installed.
Dear oh dear!
That certainly puts take two's close result in perspective, huh?

"You can be sure that developers aren't missing those type of numbers."

:)

[Nelson M]

In Gears 3 you will be able to Chainsaw a Locust into Two thirds instead of Half
Or you might Get a Half decent Sniper Rifle

[Atomic Punk]

MS has no first party development besides Rare. This is where they h ave dropped the ball. 3rd party devs just want to grab UE3 crank out a game in 18 mths and cash checks. Sony has made a smart decision loading up on talented 1st party devs to continually push the ps3 hardware. MS needs to step up their 1st party dev ASAP imo

[Enigma_2099]

...I actually believe this. In the hands of good game developers, you can work wonders. What I know it CAN'T do, is make a game BIGGER than what's ultimately possible on the PS3... there just isn't enough room on a HD DVD.

[Enigma_2099]

... doesn't make it any less true, you know...

[tha_meat_beater]

its like that old man who cant get it up like he used to ( back in 2005). night after night of lackluster performances leaving his old lady (xbox owners) unfulfilled and unsatisfied. and just like a fool in love you guys pretend nothing is wrong and put up with it anyway. you praise it in front of others but seceretly knowing that you have your eye on the ps3 and his larger hard drive.

[AngryTypingGuy]

My 360 has a 120 GB hard drive, how about your PS3? By the way, not everyone thinks that the PS3 delivers a better gaming experience.

[Sonyfanclubpresident]

360 is like the old man who's grown tired of beating and banging the PS3s wife well,
now enjoying it's golden years to pass on the torch to it's son,the XBOX 720.......which will furthermore humiliate the PS3 and it's angry mob of f@gboys.

Now go beat yer meat jr.

[Shane Kim]

hahhaha nice one beat meater.

[xdye017]

I dont believe that hardware maxes it out really. Its the devs. Its how much they use the console effiecently. Remember when M$ said that GeOW is just the beginning? So imagine what's coming up then.

[fossilfern]

Hmmm is it me but i remember someone commenting that GoW2 was the best the 360 could do ? They have certinanly changed their tone

[Raider69]

KZ VS GOW 2 - ROUND 1 - FIGHT ! silly comparison!two great games!

[360Hater]

Gears 2 wasnt much different then gears 1. 360 peaked a long time ago. Not to mention its glitched

[tha_meat_beater]

sony f@gboys huh? the expression on your avatar says alot. its the face u make when u are getting screwed in the @ss by M$ and their sorry hardware and online fees. its ironic isnt it? ur precious machiene gets the red ring and so do you.

[ultimolu]

So far I'm not impressed and I'm sure the 360 can do more than that.

[jules]

graphics are the most important thing....killzone is the best thing ever....uncharted,omfg....mgs4 >god.....
90% of you stupid people would eat rocks out of my hand...these games are good...but they get to much credit...
kilzone looks good but plays like poop...uncharted is ok....mgs4 more of the same 5min gameplay 20min loading 30min video....
i have all three and many more good , not great games on my ps3... i play games for fun not graphics of the 3 above uncharted was the only one i considered fun...
and as far as limits of what a system can do i dont think we have seen nothing yet...keep watching

[Anon1974]

Just to let you know. Of course graphics aren't everything, but they certainly don't hurt things when they're done well.
Killzone 2 is fantastic. It's the most fun I've had with a shooter since Bioshock and COD4 in my opinion and the multiplayer has me completely hooked at the moment. Sure it doesn't do anything new, but what it does do it does very well.

Uncharted wasn't just fun, it was bucketloads of fun. I've played and replayed that game and can't get enough of it. It's like the game Tomb Raider was always trying to be.

And MGS4 was everything that fans of the series were looking for. Cutscene's too long for you? Dude, have you never played a Metal Gear Solid game before? The storey and cut scenes were what makes those games. Sure they're not for everybody, but to me it sounds like you're just nitpicking. It's like saying "That driving game was crap because I don't like driving games."

You said "i dont think we have seen nothing yet...keep watching"
You mean there's more nothing to come? Well, that's what we're worried about!

[artsaber]

Unless you can prove some proof, links to sources, websites, etc. then you need to STFU. It is no secret that the PS3 has superior hardware. Many folks have provided link after link of Uncharted versus Gears screens, and just because some of you REFUSE to click on it and look doesn't make it not true.

Unless you can counter these findings with info, just shut up and get over it. This simple fact does not discredit Gears, not even in the slightest... but PS3 exclusives have stomped a damn mudhole in 360 titles graphically.

I mean how many times does Shadow Flare have to post this link for you dumb azzes? http://kineticninja.blogspo...

GET OVER IT... Gears is still great but it ain't a Killzone2, hell according to the pics, it ain't even an Uncharted. And Jules, I doubt you have ever even played Killzone2 so STFU. If you have and you are STILL complaining about it, you just suck at FPS.

You dummies forget that it ain't just the graphics that games like Killzone2 deals with, it is also the physics and enemy count on-screen simultaneously versus Gears, that looks decent enough for me by the way, but my major complaint is that you cannot find any moment in the game where there is more than FIVE goddammmed enemies on the screen... and they call this a LOCUST INVASION??!!?? What kinda invasion is this???

The locusts barely have enough folks to play a 5-on-5 pick up basketball game if there were ballcourts in Gears.

Killzone2 stomps Gears azz, hell Uncharted is even better... PS3 hardware is better, Gears is still a good game... 360 fans it is ok to live with this and not commit suicide. Shyt, I am even playing my 360 MORE than my PS3 lately because I play with co-workers, but we all are aware that the PS3 hardware is top notch, because ALL of us have @ least replaced one 360.

[DX F3NIX]

I have both systems...I perfer my PS3 anyday

[enjoi187]

same.....and i prefer my 360 any day....online friend support for ps3 is pure sh!t STILLLLLLLL after 2 YEARS....2 FU*KIN YEARS....ps3 fanboys need to grow up

[DX F3NIX]

i don't play to meet friends online i already have friends from school and work to socialize...i just play to have fun and kill time not to meet people i can do that by going out...by the way the PS3 is starting to gain support its just that they have to figure out a way to implement the software so they won't violate MS patents i.e. cross game chat...if they code it differently then MS can't sue them and everyone should know how MS likes to sue everybody...funny when MS steals ideas they claim it as their own...but whatever....oh im not a PS3 fanboy im a fanboy of every game and system I just perfer the PS3

[Coolrah]

for putting that link up....Random locust=PHAIL.....Uncharted character models look way better and we all know the scenery and background look better. Plus uncharted usually has way more enemies than Gears of war could ever handle...(I never got that) Serioulsy GEOW would have been way better if there were more enemies seriously theres like no variety....and no kind of immdeiate threat....Bottom line...PS3=MSG4,KZ2,Uncharted 1 ect....360 has gears 2 which doesn't even compare to any of those games.....I prove my point Also Resistance 2 owns gears....30+ enemies on scream = ownage....

[freestyle1976]

The guys avatar reflects him --------"its the face u make when u are getting screwed in the @ss by M$"

its all over microsoft---just face the music---

[ThaGeNeCySt]

i think RE5 looks better than Gears 2

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

the release of OBESITIES of WAR 1.2 OFFICIALY maxed out the 360, and here's proof, Gears2 cant even beat Uncharted1

http://kineticninja.blogspo...

when ever a bot gets high just show them this link and they'll shut up n get OWNED!

lol this is your ''Superior system'' lol

http://farm4.static.flickr....

it gets owned by a 2007, Uncharted>>>every 360 title

http://farm4.static.flickr....

[Smokzdaizm]

This N4G no matter what comes out about the 360 99.9% are gonna hate it no matter what it is, and they sooner you realize that the happier you will be. If you are not saying Sony is king on this webiste then you are mud. Just come say Sony is the best and should be the only console in the business leave and go enjoy your games man, because the 360 will never get a fair shake on N4G in the comments section.

[STIKUP ARTIST]

Yeah, I said LBP sucked donkey d!ck and they took a bubble. Or it could of been when I said I dont play killzone 2 any more.

[Mindsucker]

Yea ok buddy - go cry your self a river and float into never never land because you 360 fanboys have been fronting your smear campaign BS since nov. of 2006.

[cjflora]

and there's still more a 90 year old prostitute can do too, but that doesn't mean anyone wants any of it.

[cliffbo]

one thing i just don't understand: why has the 360 been surpassed graphically by a game that came out on a machine that was released a year later? surely KZ2 should have been equalled by a 360 game a year ago

[Bumpmapping]

360 is maxed out and stuck with dv9.PS3 has been running circles around it all gen, and still has agood 50 percent power left in it. 360 might have couple more tricks left but nothing same league as PS3.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

here's another 2007 title that owns every 360 game
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

http://ps3media.gamespy.com...

[KingKionic]

lol....if epic saying it why disagree?we all know we havent seen the true power of ethier console.

[cpt_kaos]

Holy CRAP there's more it can do ... um so push it harder to discover new ways of killing a 360... woah I'm impressed.

[KingKionic]

lol...no one has seen the true power of nethier console.

[lrn2hate]

The graphical jump from gears 1 and gears 2 wasn't a big difference at all.

[HideoKojima]

As a world-famous developer, I can confidently say that 360's power cannot even be compared to PS3's; that would be an insult to the PS3. We gave the 360 a test run (Microsoft paid us $10,000,000 for that) when we where developing MGS4, and there was no way we could put a Gecko and two enemies in one scene together without weird glitches all over the screen. You guys should have seen it as it was very hilarious.

[Shane Kim]

:D

[Bullseye]

tired of this assumption that the graphics on the 360 have been surpassed by those of the PS3! Having both consoles, i simply do not agree with that assertion.KZ2, which is usually held up as proof positive,is in my opinion,a warning to the contrary.KZ2 took so long to develop, ate up so much money and resources and still does not live up to expectations - slow down,oh yes it does!!Floaty, almost uncontrollable movement.And graphics that being truly objective, may be slightly better than gears2, but not millions of dollars and a life time in development better! So, are the consoles maxed out? If you are really gonna say the 360 is, then what chance the PS3? Lets hope for all gamers, that neither are truly'maxed out'.

[Mindsucker]

Well let's see I am tiered of 360 fanboys filling the blog sites with there BS.

Not that I don't think the 360 can do it but I have yet to see it only fanboys with faltering hopes claiming it is possible.

[Neo604]

I think Too Human is the king of graphic cause we have ten years to make this perfect master piece.

[siyrobbo]

why all these '360 can be pushed so much harder' posts? instead of talking the talk and saying it can, why not just show us? then it wouldnt just be wild speculation

[Lacky123]

if gears was done again but pushed to the 360 limit, it'll make a patch a grass look better the second time?

[air1]

sooo, if this gen is all about graphics, please explain to me why the wii is number 1?!

gears 2 looked better than r2, remember the days when it was about those 2 games? since it was coming out around the same time and all..

but hey since r2 couldnt do the job lets just compare it to a game that had what 5 years of dev time..

[ssipmraw]

is because there are more soccer moms and kids in the world than gamers

[BYE]

I don't think Gears 2 is a good example for what the 360 can do. Dead Space for example looked way better, it didn't receive the same buzz in the media so people think Gears 2 has better graphics.

[Droid Control]

gears 2 looks just like gears 1.

2 years later and the graphics are the same. the 360 was maxed out back in 2006...

[air1]

its funny how ppl look at "pictures" and say, yup gear1 and 2 look the same.

you sony fanatics just love to jump the gun year after year claiming victory all the way from the end of the line.

yea, the 360 is at its limits as far as graphics goes. now does that mean i cant play great games any more?

[air1]

"gears 2 looked just like gears 1"

and still looked better than r2

[xtreampro_REVENGE]

R2's scale and size makes your comment FAIL!

and do you want me to do a comparison of Gears2 vs R2 as well because you dumbass bot seem to be really blind

but guess what? Uncharted1 a 2007 game beats the living day lights out of OBESITIES of WAR 2 a 2008 game HAHHAHHAHAHAHA

[NewZealander]

damn you guys are all pathetic.

both consoles have put out some stunning looking graphics, i didnt see all you sony fans hateing on the ps2 last gen when it hit its limits, haveing to play games that were so full of jaggies (VF4!)
if you were in it for the best graphics you would have all been xbox fanboys.

you guys can have your oppinions, i cant say i agree but im also not going to try and justify some of the crap you try to pass as fact, one thing ive learnt is fanboys only believe what thet want to believe, so have fun.

just remember tho, there is alot more to life then defending a console.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

the xbox and PS2 are the bloody same you idiot, both consoles had same graphics back then, and back then PS2 games looked realistic to me as they did to everyone else who owned a PS2, your stupid seriously

[NewZealander]

seriously look up the facts before you reply, the origonal xbox was capable of alot more then the ps2, where was the bump mapping in ps2 games?

i played several multi plat games back then, most were better on xbox, burnout and battlefrount are two i can say were miles better on xbox, and with next to no AA nearly every ps2 game was left a jaggy mess, im not saying ps2 didnt have some good looking games, back in the day i was blown away by silent hill 2, ico and several others, but the xbox came out late and did have advantages.

im not a fanboy of either console but it amazes me how you idiots defend a console like its the only thing you have to live for, just play the damn games, if you dont like a console thats your choice but all the b1tching and crying from the fanboys on this site is insane.

[Mindsucker]

"We're certainly approaching the upper end of [Xbox 360 graphics]," said Gears of War 2 producer Rod Fergusson, in an interview with Gamasutra last week. "But just looking at all the [PAX} demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar."

[enjoi187]

wow ps3 fanboys need to get a life.

[Mindsucker]

Say the 360 fanboy??? pot calling the kettle black

[jlemdon]

was the HD-DVD as a game storage for RPG'S or Big world games.

[sak500]

TO ALL FKING DROIDS GO CHECK NPD DATA ABOUT UR PRECIOUS PIS3RD AND BOREZONE2 and go crying to your mommas.

[Iwasneverhere]

I hate the word fanboy! Why is it that a person cannot be a fan of something without being called a fanboy? My console of choice is a ps3. Not because I dislike 360 games but because I am a smart consumer. As such I chose not to buy a console that I would undoubtedly have to replace prematurely. I dont care about a warrenty. I dont care if Microshaft will replace it umpteen freakin' times. Yaaaaay look at me I own 300 dollars worth of 360 games. Oh but I can't play any of them till my box gets sent back weeeeeeeeeeeee. I have no pity for anyone who puts themselves through this. NO GAME IS WORTH IT! Furthermore, I would argue that those that do subscribe to this nonsense are the only ones truly deserving the title fanboy. There are a couple other scenarios here on n4g as well.

1. There are people that state their opinions, sometimes as fact. I guess this could be called fanboyism. But when its just an opinion. Well hey, they're like buttholes. Everyones got one. and theyre all entitled to using them.

[Iwasneverhere]

When one does state his opinion. you cannot refute it with facts. if I say Metallica sux you cannot factually say they do not.

2. When someone states a fact(not fanboys)they should provide proof. if it is indeed a fact then you CAN indeed prove it. Period. Similarly to the above statement Facts can not be disproven by stating opinions.(fanboys) This should not be a problem assuming one provides........PROOF! Links videos etc..

There you have it. some people DO deserve to be called fanboys. But only when whithin the guidelines provided above. People on here are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to eager to use the word and I friggin hate it!

Edit. I know I know off topic but damn. On topic. of course 360 CAN do more. but whats in it for the developers. the games are already selling. if there was that much pressure from the ps3 you could bet they would be trying a little harder.

[VMAN_01]

Enjoy gaming don't diss it.

[Ninjamonkey]

Wow, you know I decided to leave gamespot's forums and come here looking for somehwere less fanboyish.

Though tbh this place is so much worse, not only is your post full of hate, it also has no proof, or backup. its just meaningless babble...

Also just to say Im really enjoying KZ2 right now. Best shooter Ive played for a long time. Whilst its story may not quite match up to gears 2 the battles are brilliantly thought out.

On topic though I think the 360 has more room to grow, though how many devs are really pushing it? Epic... then who? Bungie might a bit. but thats it it seems...

[sak500]

Yeah sure coming in the open zone and commenting about less fanboyish comments? Go back to your gamespot cage monkey..

"Also just to say Im really enjoying KZ2 right now. Best shooter Ive played for a long time "

did u start playing video games in feb 2009?

[Ninjamonkey]

No, I started playing on the ps1 actually.

Its a very good game, generally scoring 9/10's across the board. Sop yeah, Im sure quite a lot of people think this game is great.

I said best shooter I'd played in a long time, not forever.

Ive played every majour shooter this gen too, so yeah, I think Im justified in saying Killzone 2 is a great game.

If what I said really hurt you that much, I think the term is go "crying to your mommas."

;)

[sak500]

I started gaming when you were still swimming in your dad. I had atari 2600 before that those small devices with lcd characters and those were called game & watch. They had games like Donkey kong etc.

The only momma i'm gonna go to and ride tonite is yours

[Marquis_de_Sade]

Sak, so you're an old fanboy? Lol, selfowned. Grow the ficek up.

[Ninjamonkey]

I hope MS gets their devs to make engines specificly designed for the 360, UE3 is good, but if they just spent the time making a proper engine just for the 360, we could get more out of the 360.

[azmanmanz]

Sack500.. I believe u still play atari 2600 coz your crapbox no exclusive game and gettin rrod... hahah