Did Microsoft gamble with GTA IV and fail?

GB:

"With Grand Theft Auto IV, Microsoft not only took what was considered to be a Playstation exclusive title multiplatform, but was also able to secure Xbox 360 exclusive DLC along with it. The exclusive DLC did come at the price of a GDP of a small country, but I am sure it was considered to be a well worth investment on Microsoft's part. Peter Moore was so adamant that GTA IV was the key to Xbox 360's success that he even put a fake tattoo on his arm to gloat at E3."

[MURKERR]

the DLC sold very well,id say they invested too much in a DLC which didnt entice as much gamers as they thought it would considering rockstar have stated it sold 50/50 acoss both platforms,even though the 360 had the added incentive of bein the cheaper console,gta DLC & larger install base, that 50mil could have made a new IP which they surely need

[Delta]

just cause i can. BTW i agree with the IP thing they really need one till then im sticking with my PS3 games.

[MURKERR]

many gamers are realising microsoft are papering over the cracks with all this DLC as a result of not investing in 1st party studios like nintendo and sony, there having to spend ridiculous amounts securing DLC which is proving not to sway gamers...eg tomb raider,fallout,gta

and to get timed exclusives the cheques have o be HUGE in these economic times so if bioshock2 is a timed exclusive that will cost ALOT

[Delta]

M$ could have keep Ensemble Studios with that money. But then again look at that awesome 50 million $ DLC ,smart move M$ end/Sarcasm. But then again, again M$ would have just made them pump out Halo Wars games like a sweatshop.

[StayHigh]

Smart move?? I hope you are joking..Microsoft need to build new ip games instead of buying exclusive dlc from third parties.No one should be happy for paying for something that should be in the game from the very start of development..I dont think anyone cares for GTAIV anymore because there so many great games out right now...PS3 will dominate this year with exclusive games ..And Microsoft will respond with DLC that wont come out a year later..lol..

[Game13a13y]

a big success? definitely not
a failure? probably ....

they could have given me that cool $50 mil and i would have done something more useful with it, like buying bread for every 3rd world kid.

[TOSgamer]

The fact that neither MS or Take Two would release how many dls Lost and Damned sold makes me think it isn't doing nearly as well as either party had hoped. Since when has MS or a 3rd party publisher declined to boast about stats?

[GarandShooter]

You need to know what MS invested in DLC, advertising, etc. and compare that to the amount of profit made on the game, then you can determine ROI, and see if it was a worthwile investment.

The author opines that GTA4 didn't move hardware for either platform, and if true, they're no worse off than Sony in that respect.

Success or failure depends on what you choose to use as the measuring stick.

In terms of the console war, you'd need to know Sony's net profit on this game vs Microsoft's.

[Marceles]

I kinda think MS invested in GTA4 fully knowing how big of a game it would be if it was PS3 exclusive. The DLC was overboard to me just to say the 360 had the better version, but I think they were happy with the fact that it just turned multiplatform.

[Elven6]

@1.3: Of course they could have kept Ensemble, but why would they? If you listen to all the interviews with ex Ensemble people about the closure they realize management on their part made them a target. Having a 75+ studio with on and off projects, always going to Microsoft and having a project rejected, only being RTS people, etc also factored into it.

Still sad that it happened but thats corporate life unfortunately.

On topic, no I don't think they wasted their money at all, it already made over $10 million (Since the COD 4 DLC generated that much in 24 hours before so its a reference point) in the first 24 hours. Microsoft is not stupid, they looked at sales data for other DLC packs before coming to this decision, not sure why people think otherwise.

[godofthunder10]

The factr is that they have more ps3 fans that like gta then 360 fans.if the ps3 would have had the same install install base of the 360 they would've sold more.i liked gta but i wasn't a die hard fan.if they would have about 2 other good games that came out the same month as gta,i wouldn't buy gta till the 3rd 1.Hell i never did buy gta yet.My son on the other hand like bought saits row on opening day.people can't deny that the ps3 fans like gta a lot more then 360 fans it's just fact.
Fanboys could say what they want to.the fact is that gta isn't as popular like it once was but it's still popular.people are starting to look at what other games they have out before they buy it.Just like every game,the popularity start to drop after so many ones.The only difference is Madden. the reason why is because ea has a monoply over the use of the nflpa and nfl.Their isn't anyone that could say that gta 4 was the best game out when it was released.The fact is that they had more games that was released on the 360 at the same time or a week later or earlier that was better.I don't know about the ps3 because i don't have one.

[Arnon]

You guys still realize that there's still 1 more DLC to come, correct? Also, a lot of the $50 million was actually given back to Microsoft. Microsoft themselves even stated that the $50 million was a loan to help with the development for GTA IV and to get them to make a deal for exclusive DLC.

[Godmars290]

"On topic, no I don't think they wasted their money at all, it already made over $10 million "

That's $10 million of a $50 million project you're talking about. With a second DLC on the way, if it manages to do as well, that's a $30 million loss. Even if you look at it as advertising costs since the project failed to elevate the overall popularity of the 360.

And I'd love to know where you're getting this "$10 million from" since the speculation is that its sold just under one million. With MS confirming nothing and no one having any idea if R* is taking a cut of the profits.

@Arnon
You know that with what you're saying, that the money was only a loan, is that any GTA4 DLC has gone from "Exclusive" to "Timed Exclusive" making the term valueless the more MS uses it.

[doG_beLIEfs]

"Microsoft themselves even stated that the $50 million was a loan to help with the development for GTA IV and to get them to make a deal for exclusive DLC."

So when does RS pay back this "LOAN"?

Wow dude, you should spin for the Repubs with that piece of excellence.

Thanks for the morning laugh with my coffee.

[phosphor112]

equal pointless. If MS paid for a timed exclusive for Bioshock 2, that would be one stupid ass mistake. Besides, Sony has enough good games for people to not buy Bioshock 2 day one. It'll more than likely be a great game, but considering how PS3 development has improved phenomenally within the past year, the PS3 would probably see a more stable version of the game anyway.

[Raoh]

when the 360 was selling well in japan, they gloated and sang it to the news.

when the 360 sold well in the UK, they they gloated and sang it to the news.

when any of their exclusives sell well, they gloated and sang it to the news.

but lately? you only hear remarks from their executives trying to take stabs at sony or nintendo like this was a rap beef

[y0haN]

Fail? They paid $50 million for it. Lost and damned sold over 1 million, and at $20 a pop that's a cool $20 million just on two-week sales. There's another set of DLC coming in October. The number of Xbox 360s they sold as well as copies of the game means their profit margins are probably much higher than these figures. No doubt over the course of the year the total will be much higher than $50 million just from sales of the DLC alone.

[JHUX]

Link the info to where you got those numbers please.

[MicroSony4Life]

LMAO @ the Sony trolls in a 360 article.

Hate the player but don't hate the game.

Is Killzone 2 really that boring that you are here posting. What wrong Murker, as I remember you were hyped and going bananas over Kill zone 2, thought you would be busy playing Kizzy 2, ohh well late the 360 hate live for ever.

[Sarcasm]

"$20 a pop that's a cool $20 million just on two-week sales"

The fanboy math mentality is strong with this one.

If you think Rockstar doesn't get a significant cut of that $20 million, then you're just fooling yourself.

"Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on you." -Bush Jr.

[Elven6]

@Godmars290: I thought I explained it? When the first COD 4 DLC pack was released Activision said it sold 1 million copies in its first 24 hours, at $10 a piece that is $10 million. Microsoft said it broke previous records so until we get something official $10 mill is what we have to go on as a basis.

$10 million in the first 24 hours isn't bad either.

[y0haN]

@Sarcasm

I don't need lowlifes such as yourself patronizing me, but I guess I'll play along. Rockstar won't get anything, the DLC was paid for initially with the $50 million. You think MS wants to pay more than that? No. Even if MS didn't profit from this DLC overall (which they will) the number of boxes sold because of it and therefore customers for the future will have been worth it.

Also I'm not a fanboy, I love my PS3 and my Xbox, I am just stating what should be obvious.

[ssj]

Ask me when the next episode has already been released.

[die_fiend]

I don't really care what happened. Though I can't see how selling about 6 million when it's never been launched simultaneously before is a fail. I'm glad they got the DLC, it's the best DLC so far by a mile and I'm enjoying it a lot.

[TheMART]

GTA being Playstation bound before, thus the fanbase on the PS3, its a great achievement to sold half of all copies.

Second, the first DLC episode sold already 1.000.000 downloads x 1200 MS points (or about 15 bucks or so) and will sell at least 2 mln. downloads over its life time. Then there is the second episode, which will sell million(s) again.

So no, they succeeded in all ways.

[Capt CHAOS]

I think MS should have paid more and got a complete exclusive.

Buy blimey, I didn't realise the download sold 1 million, that's pretty good, however, they paid alot for the exclusive download..

[TheMART]

Dude... To pay off those sales it costs too much dude. They sold 6 mln. copies also on the PS3. Don't know what Rockstar estimated, but lets just take that 6 mln. sold.

If it weren't on the PS3 they wouldn't have sold 6.000.000 x 65 Euro. All costs need to be paid, but in the end thats a lot of money.

They paid 50 mln. for the 2 episodes.

Now it sold already 15 mln. in dollars (1 mln. downloads). If it sells 2 mln. downloads, that's 30 mln. income for one episode. The second one only needs to sell just over 1 mln. copies to already have their costs earned back.

Its a win either way

[PoSTedUP]

"dude" you do not know what your talking about. when you say "needs to sell just over 1 mln. copies to already have THEIR costs earned back."- you think microsoft gets all that money? all 30 mill? all 65$ on each game? lol hahah wow man you know nothing...try learning about how much the DEVELOPERS make from it and how much the STORES get out of it and then the PUBLISHERS get a share also. for microsoft it adds up to less than 35% on each game sold.

360 had a much bigger advertising budget for GTA4, they put alot of money into advertising the EXCLUSIVE DLC, had a much bigger fanbase than ps3, and still only MATCHED ps3's #'s. ps3 brand name is super strong, the proof is in the... pudding? XD

*goes to sleep*

[Kleptic]

mart...its pretty obvious you have no idea how reality works...

it breaks down pretty simple...MS put up about 60 million dollars more for GTAIV than Sony did...yet didn't sell any more 360's because of it...and didn't sell any more copies for take two because of it...and because of killzone 2 and other big releases right now; the DLC has received next to zero attention...it is unlikely that they will make all that money back on DLC sales...its not known how much of a royalty MS collects per sale...but even so...they need to sell about 3.5 million copies of the DLC just to break even...and that is assuming Take Two doesn't take any money from each sale, which is unlikely...

as far as GTAIV goes...Sony won the most...it didnt' sell anymore consoles in april/may last year than 360's...but Sony also didn't chuck around 50 million to gimmick the public into buying that version...

you know what Sony did?...Sony took 50 million and instead made killzone 2...and I wonder how killzone 2 sales are stacking up against some freakin' DLC...they took the same amount of money to create...and there is little question that profit margin on killzone 2 is going to crush the dlc...

[Why dis]

People still take this site seriously and most of its garbage fans?

The game pushed consoles and sold millions lol. MSFT earned Rockstars attention now the blockbuster series will not be favored when it comes to the PS brand(RS WILL ALSO KEEP MSFT IN MIND).

Sick of morons talking about DLC. I guess thats what you do when you get short changed. The losers make themselves heard?

[Kleptic]

stop saying you are not POG...you are the only idiot on earth that says 'MSFT'...unless that is some ignorant fanatic code you crazies use...POG is the only person I have ever seen do it...

i'm also certain you are POG because I know for a fact you are trying to bite your own ears and elbows...

[ParanoidMonkey]

All I can say is that I really enjoyed Lost & Damned and look forward to the second episode. From the sounds of things, it was successful, so I'm sure everyone benefiting is happy.

[MURKERR]

'is it a success for microsoft?'... HELL NO, half the price of ps3,larger install base and 50 mil DLC and it sold 50/50, microsoft put up 50mill for DLC believing this would give them clear daylight in the console war

i promise you if microsoft could go back knowing what they know now i doubt there would be a lost and damned

[N4Garbage]

I don't understand how it was a gamble and how it could fail.

Thanks to MSFT GTA is seeing a greater success.

The Ps2 Version of San Andreas sold 17.33million copies out of a 100million+ Install base.

The 360 Version of GTAIV is around 6.7million copies out of a 28million install base.

Only on N4G could that be a FAIL.

And I await my disagrees lmao!!

[Lawliet]

I don't understand you. Do you think that R* care about the install base? They don't, they only care about what they earn from it. Which is 17mil:6.5mil!
GTA didn't fail neither did it succeed on Xbox360.

[vhero]

Using your stats against you here I would say on another spin they only managed to sway 6.7m GTA players out of 17.33m GTA players which isnt even half sure not everybodys gonna buy straight away and buy the next game up but they didnt even manage to get more than 50% of the marketshare which is what they wanted so FAIL.

[otherZinc]

Also: In America alone, GTA4 360 sold double the PS3 version; 4,350,000 to 2,350,000. M$ $261,000,000 sales, does that seem like a fail to anyone? SONY $141,000,000 in total sales TO DATE!.

The money M$ used to get GTA4 was totally justified because that was $261,000,000 in sales they took from the PS3.

[Lawliet]

13million units sold world wide.
50/50 Xbox360/PS3
6.5mil/6.5mil
Xbox360, 1million w/DLC, 5.5mil wout/DLC, 12mil wout/DLC worldwide. Just wondering whose the one said that people will buy the Xbox360 version because of the DLC. I guess that proven him wrong.

[GarandShooter]

Not necessarily. People could have bought it for the 360 because of the 'availability' of the DLC, but chose not to actually purchase the DLC when released for any number of reasons. If it did shift units because of that potential, and unfortunately we'll never know if it in fact did, that could be considered a success for MS.

[M_Prime]

well a lot of people complained that the games was missing features such as working out and jet packs and planes. and not the scale of SAN ANDREAS. so they got sour and in the end didn't end up buying DLC..

i loved GTA4 best of all because everything i didn't like about the previous GTAs was fixed. I think the inclusion of the cover system made a lot of difference in my books, and teh addition of ONLINE. hell i played SAN ANDREAS online on PC and it was so much fun.. being able to get on my xbox and play online was even better. so some hate it... i loved it and so far the DLC is pretty awsome..

i just finished the mission where i meet up with playboy x and niko, it was cool seeing it from another perspective and it wasn't even that hard because the grenade launcher made easy work for me.

the only thing that annoys me in the SHOTGUN from a MOTORBIKE!.. omg thats annoying.. but i like the territory grab, its fun and well done and i am having a blast with the road rash style races lol.. so much fun to knock people off their bikes :-)

[Arnon]

No. The RETAIL version of GTA IV has sold about half 'n half on both platforms. GTA IV: The Lost & Damned is sitting around 2 million.

[Bumpmapping]

I'm enjoying my real exclusive games on my PS3!

[Delta]

Same here loving my PS3 exclusives. Can't wait for a team Ico game.

[Dark Collosis]

So your enjoying PS3s what 2 exclusives (MLB09/Killzone2)so far this year in comparrison to what?? The 360s exclusive Downloadable content of two of the top games this generation(GTA4 and Fallout3). Or maybe the 360s exclusive games already this year StarOcean4/Halowars/Ninjablade /RacePro/Stoked.... Man you must be very busy on that PS3........

@godmars290---- Please read my title because it obviously applies in your case. No where did i say or accuse PS3 of having no games.. But i did plain as DAY AND NIGHT point out the numerious games already out THIS YEAR on the 360... So please dont come here with i am so busy on my PS3 right now. Like theres nothing else for us 360 owners to do besides Downloadable content..

[Godmars290]

"The PS3 has no games."

Really? You're honestly going there?

Please at least try to do better...

Edit:
Dude, you mention two PS3 titles then listed some for the 360, some of which aren't out yet unless you import.

Just the fact that you're playing the list game, giving the nod to 360 titles when you know their overall release list for 2009 doesn't match the PS3, is lame.

[cayal]

"The 360s exclusive Downloadable content of two of the top games this generation(GTA4 and Fallout3)."

Really? You're only comeback is DLC. They are not even real games.

Boy, your 360 fanboys are really clutching for something to play.

[dachiefsman]

thanks for contributing nothing to this thread...now gtfo

[Dark Collosis]

@Godmars290- Oh man you got me ONE out of the FIVE games i listed for the 360 isnt out for RETAIL yet, BUT is can be played as a downloadable demo and is due out within a month. So sorry.. Please is there anything i missed OUT or coming within this month and playable on PSN that i missed????
Not to mention i am not the one who started this and said this and i quote ""I'm enjoying my real exclusive games on my PS3!"" not to mention your made up quote that came right out of you #$$ ""The PS3 has no games."" in responce of my defending against the notion of not having any "REAL EXCLUSIVE" games to play......

@cayal-- Really thats all you got out of that small paragraph i typed above.. Talk about a lost cause. Please do not have children.. EVER..

Like i stated above all to the notion of the PS3 having so many games and not needed this DLC compared to what?? And please dont be the retard to come and post a list of PS3 games coming out SUPPOSIBLY this year that have NO official release date..

[Venomish]

I am sorry man but Metal Gear Solid 4 alone owns everything else
and just as a bonus here are some real exclusives that are ALREADY OUT
Killzone 2
LittleBigPlanet
Uncharted
WipEout HD
Resistance 1&2
Gran Turismo Prologue
Valkyria Chronicles
Ratchet and Clank
Heavenly Sword

and many exclusive PSN titles
and as you can see they are ALL great games.

[kratos-i-am]

was a pretty pathetic attempt on Microsoft's part to steal marketshare from Sony. If MS weren't to have secured the DLC as exclusive i'm sure Rockstar would have still have produced it in it's current form but as multiplatform. Seeing as how popular the series is, and the length of time between development cycles it would have been a no brainer to have had DLC for GTA without the money from MS. Actually the whole reason for the 50 million wasn't so much to cover development costs, but just to keep the DLC off the opponents console. I reason this further with the multiplatform release of DLC for Midnight Club, Rockstar would have made the GTA DLC multiplatform aswell.

Shame really as it could have been experienced by a wider audience.

[peeps]

last line of the article was interesting tbh. What games do shift systems? and in all fairness it's true. games like Killzone2 for example, wouldn't have shifted consoles because chances are people wanting to play this game will already have bought a ps3 a long time ago.

I'd say that the only games that will really sell hardware are newly announced good looking games e.g. Alan Wake might attract someone to buy a 360, same as gow might have done. Halo fans would have bought a 360 anyway because they knew halo 3 would eventually be appearing on their console and so on.

What will make people buy a certain console (in terms of games) is new ip's exclusive to that console

[Death]

You might get a surge in sales, but nothing sustainable. Once the pricepoint dips below $200 it get easier to buy a console for a game. In all honesty at that point in time it's a library of games in the back catalog. Games work the same as price drops, they just bring in the next wave of customers waiting for another reason to buy.

-Death

[FreedomReign]

Many factors drive Console sales.
Here are my completely random top 3.

- Exclusive franchises
- Low Price of Entry
- Stream of quality highly ranked games pushed to market on a regular basis.

PS3 has 2 out of 3, and Xbox has 2 out of 3. First to 3 wins?

Back on topic. The GTA Lost and Damned episode, will sell to every owner of GTAIV on Live, who still has his/her original GTA disc.

Not to mention the game, could easily be re-packaged with the 2 new episodes for $60 at retail.

[cmacdonald]

It probably was a bad idea to invest 50 million on game DLC when only a small percentage of people ever finished the game in the first place.

And the next expansion will have even a smaller audience of people that finished the 2nd expansion to want the third.

[harrisk954]

Have a bubble!

[FreedomReign]

Never finished the original, nope wasn't interested anymore. I bought The Lost and Damned day one, and played it to completion.

Now I'm back to GTAIV, living the life of Niko Bellic, and its an awesome experience.

Sometimes you just need a kick to complete those games you leave behind.

[Power_Of_Flops_]

The Open Zone : where collecting gameless xbot tears happens

[ShiNe-Box-]

The gamble failed 1 month after GTA4's release. 4 weeks of play time couldn't save the game 4 me. The game, when compared to San Andreas, sucks major ass.

The gamble was suppose to keep people from buying PS3's. Then what happens? PS3 outsells 360 8 months straight.

The gamble was suppose to make every gamer buy the 360 version over the PS3 version. Then what happens? People still buy the PS3 version over the 360 version.

[ShabzS]

don't care if ms got their money's worth but thanks to them and r* got to play lost and damned and what a dlc it is... for 20 bucks its definitely worth it... bringing more games makes gamers happy let the ms accounting team figure the business side of it coz in the end it doesn't effect my gaming time of L and D...

[titntin]

If you look purely at sales of the software, no of course they didn't get their moneies worth.
But that misses the point. By paying hadsomely, MS made sure that there was no reason for GTA fans to think about getting a PS3 for what was always a big PS franchise - indeed, real fans who must have the DLC will get a 360. Thats what they paid good money for, and it worked a treat.

[cayal]

That would explain the sales being 50/50. The 'true' fans wanted to DLC.

Boy logic escapes some people these days.

[JHUX]

I'm not trying to argue between which is better ps3 vs 360, but when you say "true fans", I think most of the true fans, including myself, stopped playing the game after they beat the story. It was such a down grade from the last GTA games, I beat the story, played for a little and realized how lame it is with the same weapons, no where to use my money, and a tiny city compared to what they gave us last (GTA:SA). Then I sold it. Only GTA game I have ever sold, from the originals I had on the ps1.

[timmyrulz]

The gamble has paid off, right now thw x360 is about 6 to 8 million consoles ahead of the ps3, should gta4 have been a ps3 exclusive the figures would be the other way around, anyone who disagrees please explain why

[Power_Of_Flops_]

Ok I'll explain why you live in fantasy land, brother : before the Xbox price cut, 360 was outsold worldwide by the PS3 by a wide margin, heck it was even outsold in the US too.

Even after GTA 4 was out, it was deeply outsold, the price cut saved the 360, but it was months later, when MS cut the 360 price in half worldwide (september 2008). Go look at the numbers and you'll see it's the truth.

So what saved the 360 was the price cut, only the price cut. Still, even costing half as much as the PS3, it'w now being outsold again by the PS3 worldwide since the end of february. MS probably intends now to give up on the 360 since they don't buy exclusives anymore, they're closing their own studios, and they don't plan any 1st party AAA exclusive anymore.

Which means that basically Sony decides when the 360 dies, any PS3 price cut now would do the trick.

[Death]

Ok, here's the tricky part, why?

First off, GTA has always been a timed exclusive for the Playstation. San Andreas had a 2 year head start on the PS2. If you wanted to play GTA in the past, you needed to own or buy a PS2. Unless of cource you didn't mind a 2 year wait. Microsoft helped fund GTA IV's development with that 50 million. This helped to make sure the game launched on both systems at the same time taking away Sony's edge they had always held. As a result today, GTA was neutralized as a system selling Playstation exclusive. It also increased Xbox game sales since Rockstar is claiming it has sold 50/50 with the Playstation version.

GTA:SA on Xbox sold 1.26 million copies vs. 12 million on the PS2. Thats a 10/90 split.

GTA:VC and GTA III sold approx 17 million on the PS2 vs. 1.6 million for the twin pack on the Xbox. Once again, a 90/10 aplit in Sony's favor.

A GTA title with a 50/50 split on an Xbox? Yeah, that's a very big success. The DLC is generating income for both Microsoft and Rockstar which is also a good thing.

-Death

[cayal]

urr when you spend $50 million and haven't recovered it yet, it's not income.

[cwir]

"The exclusive DLC did come at the price of a GDP of a small country"

How is $50m a GDP of a small country? It depends what type of GDP we're talking about but still there are maybe a couple of tiny islands that have a GDP smaller than or similar to that.. And they are like dots on the map..

[donnie-2105]

microsoft clearly bought the dlc in a game of oneupmanship with sony and not to create direct profits off it.it goes to show how far the xbox brand has come since last generation by the 50/50 split of a game which was closely tied with the playstation and how enough money can by you any developers loyalty.the original xbox wasnt supported like the ps2 by devs with sloppy ports and late release"s it now seems like the tables are reversed this gen and the devs are siding with micrsoft.also i do not think every former sony exclusive was bought by MS and the 360 is and remains a big money maker esp considering the easy development and fast turnaround,

[360]

I don't think they failed but i also don't think it went as well as they wanted.

[Bladestar]

Sony fanboys are stupid!... And with articles like this and the comments that follow this become more obvious.

Failure! haha!

mmm... i know Sony leg humpers are shortsighted... but I will try to shed some light.

We all know that Rockstar had a long history with Sony... lots of exclusive content on their platform. As matter of fact the success of the PS2 is usually attributed in great part to GTA which gave the edge over other consoles.

Now, we all know that by default Rockstar would support the PS3... and without much effort they would probably make it exclusive.

Microsoft DLC was probably also what cause them to even considering supporting and bringing GTA to the xbox 360.

Now, forget the DLC for a second... imagine the damage or lost of potential sales that would cause if GTA IV would cause if the game would be exclusive to the PS3.

Now, think a little harder (bear with me... I know it's painful to think).. imagine the long term implications.. Now that the xbox 360 have a fanbase... it's very likely and most certain that Microsoft will not have to convince rockstar to bring GTA to the xbox 360 since they will not likely want to abandon the millions of new fans they just created on the xbox 360 platform.

Now, when it comes to the DLC and ignoring the facts I mentioned above.

Failure? GTA DLC gave the xbox 360 version the edge. If you want the most complete version you need the xbox 360 version. Those that are extreme fans of the IP would probably by an xbox 360. Those with both an xbox 360 and a PS3 would buy the xbox 360 version which mean more royalties and money to Microsoft.

Microsoft has the potential to make more than 50% of the money they spend with the 1st DLC... and they still have 2 more to go.

So, let do the math...

1) Microsoft managed to remove from Sony the advantage of having one of the most influential games in the history of console from being an exclusive.

2) Microsoft made what used to be a Playstation title their own, by making the xbox 360 the console of choice for this game.

3) microsoft sales more copies of what used to be a Playstation title which prove to developers their titles can sale even more on the xbox 360.

4) Microsoft made more money on the DLC than what they paid.

mmmm... geee... I wonder what Sony leg humpers use scale and measure success... is it their balls? because when it comes to the xbox 360 sales charts, Halo records, xbox live etc... they all think are failure... and other games on the PS3 and the console itself that perform less in terms of sales are always a success.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Episode 1 DLC was very good. It answered alot of my questions of who was who on some of the missions. Now, I can drive a motorcycle way better than before. Can't wait for DLC 2.

[ceedubya9]

GTA 4 on the 360 is a success in the overall big picture. The game sold a lot on the console. That's money for everyone, and everyone is happy, and that's one form of success.

Also, when you compare the previous generation, in which the GTA series was primarily seen as a PS1 franchise (although it was only time-released), Microsoft's tactics were instrumental in splitting apart the GTA fanbase. Instead of everyone buying a PS3 to play the new GTA, there was now the choice of buying on the 360 at the same time. This takes potential sales away from Sony, and keeps Microsoft competitive.

It didn't create a huge jump for microsoft, but it kept Sony from making the huge jump that the PS3 possibly could have made if the game were still Sony timed-exclusive.

As for the DLC, it has sold well. And there is still more to come. We have no idea how much profit Microsoft or Rockstar could be making from this. A lot of you are saying that the DLC has had no effect. However, we don't actually know how much of an effect it has had. We don't know how many people used DLC as the deciding factor of which game they would buy.

[Mike134nl]

It was a succes cause if the game remained exclusive for the ps3 it would have been a big boost for the ps3.

The DLC already is a succes for Microsoft even though they didn't manage to outsell the ps3. Though it's likely that future gta4 sales will be stronger on the xbox 360.

[Godmars290]

In that it c-blocked the PS3 makes it a MS win.

But if that's all they can manage when Sony has strong 1st party titles, what does it mean for the 360 or the next Xbox if MS has to continue to buy success?

[FreedomReign]

@ Godmars

None of us can live ahead of the release schedule.

[Father Murder X]

1. MS made sure that it was released on the 360 the same day.

2. The DLC is reportedly a success but the bigger picture is that it is the test game for digital distribution. In the grand scheme of things they will at least earn their money back but even more valuable than that is the they get an idea of how big digital distribution can be for what you can consider a full AAA game.

3. Think about it. If Live has 17-18 million "active users". If only five million of them (and we know that its more) paid 50.00 dollars a year that is 250 million dollars AT LEAST that is generated just from subscriptions that isn't including the microsoft point purchases. Microsoft is playing with house money. Where do you guys think the 50 million came from!!!! It is a smart business move. They only have to sell 1.25 million to get their money back on the Lost and the Damned (25 million) because there are two episodes (50/2=25). Smart business move.

3. Alot of people actually like the DLC. The reviews have been great so far. I personally am not into GTAIV but alot of people are.

As long as microsoft is bringing in the dough. Live will never ever be free. Money makes the work go round and game companies/studios/developers are not run by fanboys!!!! They are run by businessmen who's main goal is to make money.

[Official General]

Microsoft have definitely made some gains in this deal - taking an equal share of the GTA games market from Sony and getting rid of Sony's timed GTA exclusivity and making fairly solid sales on this DLC. But looking at the bigger picture, it's clear to see that their GTA 4 exclusive DLC gamble has failed to achieve it's ultimate objective - the 360 version of GTA 4 to outsell the PS3 version. I'll explain why, no fanboy stuff.

* Firstly, the 360 had a much larger install base than the PS3 at the time of GTA 4's launch (it still has, but by a smaller margin). With this advantage in place, many expected that the 360 would sell more copies than the PS3 version from the start. I can still remember Microsoft raving on with excitement about how the 360 version of GTA 4 was outselling the PS3 version by 2 to 1 in the first few months after GTA 4 was released.

* Secondly, Microsoft paid a whopping $50 million for this exclusive DLC on GTA 4, a fact which they highly publicized with large-budget and massive advertising/marketing campaigns online, magazines and on TV. Microsoft and independant gaming industry analysts kept stating that this exclusive DLC will almost certainly sway alot of gamers into buying the 360 version of GTA 4 over the PS3 version, maybe even sway Playstation fans into buy a 360 console just to get this "precious DLC". MS exec Shane Kim was quoted as saying, "the 360 will own the launch of GTA 4" and that "you need the 360 version of GTA 4 for the ultimate experience of the game, because of upcoming exclusive 360 DLC".

* Thirdly, it just so turned out that GTA 4 was not the great game it turned out to be. The game was visually stunning, with incredible animations, and a very good story and gameplay, - but it was not great or anything outstanding overall. Many gamers found GTA 4 got repetitive and boring after sometime, and they noticed that it was stripped of the best features found in previous GTA titles. GTA 4 in the end turned out to be a big dissappointment for many GTA fans on both sides, 360 and PS3. This letdown may have been the first nail in the coffin for Microsoft's gamble, because many people who bought the 360 version of GTA 4 were so let down by the game that they were no longer interested in exclusive DLC.

* Fourthly and finally, the exclusive DLC for the 360 version of GTA 4 took so long to be released that in the end, many people by that time had lost total interest in GTA 4. Microsoft had publicly announced the DLC would be released in August 2008. They then stated October or November 2008. Now in Feb 2009, it's only been recently released. The exclusive DLC does not actually appear to improve greatly upon the original, apart from having a new character and storyline. Other games like Killzone 2, Gears 2 and LPB had overshadowed this DLC's anticipated released. Even though it might have sold quite well, this DLC is by no means the saviour of GTA 4 - it is still seen as overhyped and dissappointing by many gamers and GTA fans.

CONCLUSION - With Microsoft spending a massive $50 million on exclusive DLC for GTA 4 on the 360 plus millions more advertising it and marketing it, and also adding the fact that the 360 version has a larger install base than the PS3, the 360 could only just about manage to sell an equal amount of copies to the PS3 version. Like MS's Shane Kim said, the "360 was supposed to own the launch of GTA 4", something you would have expected considering all the advantages and ammunition Microsoft had compared to Sony. All that exclusive DLC, advertsing and larger install base meant nothing in the end when it came to the 360 winning in sales over the PS3. The end result was that GTA 4 has sold an equal amount of copies on both the PS3 and the 360. On that front, Microsoft gambled and FAILED.

The facts speak for themselves.

[ultimatek1]

Gran thief auto IV was an exclusive to PS3, sony lost it. If MS managed to get sells ratio 1:1, its a success, cuz it was sony dominance over the title. Having sold one million of GTAIV DLC, and 2 million by octuber that means GTAIV DLC payed the exclusivity rights to MS, look at the charts again, GTA4 again sold a nice quantity of software units, even contributed to a slight boost in hardware sells, that translated, MS move was a samrt one an it already pay itself, and remember one thing the 50 million agreement was for two exclusive episodes, MS almost already collect that sum, so 2nd episode will be all gains for MS.

[ultimatek1]

your hate for MS, comes from ur FANBOYISM, analysts, not me, already said DLC paid itself

[artsaber]

There will be even LESS interest with the second installment of GTA4 DLC. This REEKS of a bad investment... easy test for you ultimatek1, if it was your money, would you bet your $25 million on the 2nd installment on GTA4 DLC? If so, you are an idiot.

The fact is that Microsoft paid 50 million dollars more for GTA4 since MOST GTA4 owners, which include PS3 AND 360 owners will NEVER download the content. Can we prove that even HALF of GTA4 owners will download this material? Microsoft either needed to sell 833,334 more copies of GTA4 than the PS3 version OR sell 2,500,000 DLCs JUST to break even! So all 360 GTA4 owners need to once again break out their wallets and support Microsoft's bad investment.

I doubt if they can recoup their $50 million back being that most people on BOTH systems didn't even bother to finish GTA Errand 4. I bought mine on the 360, and sold it... the game is trash compared to San Andreas.

Microsoft Fails, the math just doesn't add up for 50/50 sells, especially when more than half of those owners failed to even complete the original game, because it wasn't that good... bad investment, I would fire the azz who brokered this deal.

[ultimatek1]

@artsaber : I spoke about facts, not my opion of the game nor devs or SONY & MS. For me i dont like GTA4, i dont even own it, so your statements are cuz ur a fanboy, desperate and with hate. Official general and you didnt say anything based on a fact, u both expressed ur opinion and that is misleading. Peace bros!

@cmacdonald "FACTS"
http://www.gamespot.com/new...

[nix]

the fall guy here was MS because they actually paid 50 million dollars. it shows because only 1 million DLC has been downloaded so far against 6.5 million owners in 360. and the worst case is that the second DLC might not get much love because it's coming out too late.

General is right with his points. the sale was suppose to be 2:1 or 3:2 in 360's favor but it wasn't. even i'm surprised by the 50:50 turnout. i honestly thought 360 version will sell more because of the higher number of 360s at that time.

[na2ru1]

We knew that one all along. But the sales of GTA DL is very impressive but still a small fraction of the total 360 sales.

In GTA, The story missions alone never drives sales. it's mainly the architectoral design of the sandbox environment and the virtual life it generates that draws a lot of it's attention particularly with the casual crowd. What I'm saying is, GTA4 took those elements already.

[FreedomReign]

Those are the reasons YOU bought GTA games, not everyone thinks alike.

[Chrisy]

Well before GTA went multyplatform, playstation was actually the top selling brand. Now it will finish in 3rd place. Before GTA went multyplatform, playstation was popular and loved. Now its ignored and considered irrelevant by most gamers. Although to be fair, the demise of the ps brand is also a result of the ps3 being ridiculously overpriced and having no more than 1 good game in its entire library.

Its more that MSs gamble with most previously exclusive ps franchises like FF, RE and DMC that payed of.

[dkgshiz]

Your a tard

[hankmoody]

... anyone who hasn't downloaded this doesn't know what they're missing. This was well worth every penny of those twenty bucks I spent. The story and gameplay are great and I enjoyed my time back in Liberty City immensely. I can't wait for the next episode!

[hesido]

Imagine what would happen if it was kept a PS3 exclusive. It would shift A LOT of PS3's. Microsoft prevented that.

[Game13a13y]

ok, Microsh!t might have acheieved their goal of prevent PS 3 install base grew, but at what cost?
do you know that Killzone 2 development cost is well within $50 million? so instead of investing that money to invent something new, Microsh!t just decided to use that money for something that is not so effective.
look at games like Killzone 2, i'm sure it will move alot more console sales than those DLC packs. so instead of getting games like Killzone 2, you xbots are treated with two DLC packs. on the other hand, Microsh!t prevented PS 3 owners to enjoy the game to its fullest potential as well (which i don't really mind btw). so at the end of the day, who did Microsh!t screw up? gamers on both sides.

[dj55555555]

Rockstar has stated that they will not be able to pull off the next Grand Theft Auto due to the struggles with Grand Theft Auto IV (source) on a disc that holds only 8.54 GB compared to a Blu-ray that is currently holding 50 GB. This may harm them in the long run because you see developers now a days wanting to expand their games while saving as much money as they can. Making a game on a Hi-Definition Blu- ray disc not only allows for more uncompressed raw data and more audio support, it also benefits the developer at cutting cost of production.

John Carmack, game programmer and co-founder of id Software, has brought this up many times relating to his upcoming title, Rage. He has stated thatin order to put the game onto the Xbox 360 and have it look identical to the PlayStation 3 version, they would need to put it on about four discs which would cost them a lot in production costs.He also stated thatif Microsoft does not allow for them to put this game on four discs without charging them extra, he will have to compress the game massively to have it fit on two discs degrading the visuals of the game.Developers will adopt Blu-ray because of advantages in size, as well as price. Who would not want to make a larger, cheaper game?

EVERY 360 SOLD IS A NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR FULLY REALIZED GAMES!

[cmacdonald]

Unfortunately it is a cycle. As far as multi-console games PS2 held back the Xbox a bit, 360 is holding back the PS3, and the PS3 will hold back the next Xbox 720.

Sony won't have a new console out for a long time.

[artsaber]

Sony has a history of having 2 console devices on the market as a minimum. When the PS2 came out, the PS1 was still on the shelf. When The PS3 came out, the PS2 was still selling very well, along with PSP sells. Sony is already working on the PS4, you would be a fool to think that they are not working on it. Also, expect the PSP2 to be on the shelves as well.

Sony is not a ONE PRODUCT WONDER like Microsoft is, see Microsoft has not choice but to shovel money into the 360, when products like the Zune and Vista tank (Their bread and butter is OSes)... they need something to shine bright... too bad it has been RRODs doing just that.

Sony plans to squeak out 10 years life cycle from the PS3, which is close to attainable being that the PS2 is STILL selling and it has been out for over 7 years I think. The PS4 is in the workings... and lets hope that Microsoft doesn't farm out the hardware design of the XBOX 720 to goat herders in Bangledesh like they did with the 360.

I guess it wouldn't matter, Microsoft can come out publically and tell most people that their hardware is crap, and idiot fanboys will buy TWO. One to play, and the second one as a backup... 360 fans are generally disliked because they are morons.

[cmacdonald]

Did I say they will discontinue the PS3 when the PS4 is released?

No I didn't.

[dj55555555]

Yes the PS2 wasn't as strong as the orignal xbox but they had the same disk capacity also it was very easy to upscale the xbox version, so no the PS2 didn't hold back the xbox, unlike this generation microsoft where lazy and just wanted a console out there before sony and 360 owners are now starting to pay the price for that.

[ultimatek1]

MS paid 50 million for 2 episodes. Already sold one million, and is expected to sell two, before second episodes, that gives 40 million in gains, if we add extra GTAIV software sales boost, and a slighty hardware boost, when GTA4 DLC was launched, it already paed itself. The good thing there still one episode left which is all gains.

[cmacdonald]

We will never know how many it sold. I don't think 1/6.5 owners have bought the expansion already, and no way 1/3.25 people will eventually buy it.

Hell 5% of the people that bought it originally might have finished the original game.

[altimako02]

xbox took half of the sales, this means next time rockstar makes a game they are going to make it on 360 no matter what. unless rockstar is stupid and wants to loose 50% of its sales. i personal think rockstar is a company that makes stupid games that appeal to the morally bankrupt portion of society throughout the world. anyway its a win for 360 because they took away an exclusive and got 50% of market share for that IP which means that next time gta is released it will be on the 360.

[Monty_The_Great]

could you think or care if MS failed. No one knows how much the DLC was DL and it seems that most forget that there is another episode to come still. I am sure that as time passes here on N4G that we will get the same thing with this next episode that we got with the last, "no one cares about GTA4...it sucks...its so overrated..blah blah blah" It pretty much goes like this, if you are a Sany lover then yes of course MS failed. If you are a MS lover then of course it didn't fail. If you are a gamer, then who really cares if it failed or was a great success? Because in the end it only matters if you enjoyed your time while playing GTA4.

[Mikey Mike]

is that the PS3 makes developers money while the Hack Box is repeating the same mistakes with pirating.

[dachiefsman]

I am wondering how many people in this thread ACTUALLY played Lost and the Damned. If you haven't your talking out your a$$, but for some of yea that comes with the territory.

[artsaber]

NOBODY has played it because nobody is downloading it!!!! No one is saying that it is not good DLC. Hell, as far as I am concerned, I would be willing to bet that it is better than GTA4 as a standalone. GTA4 was simply disappointing to too many people, and it served as a bad advertisement for this decent DLC content.

The fact of the matter is that it released wayyy too late, people lost interest in the game VERY quickly, UNLIKE San Andreas... and by the time the second DLC coes out, even MORE people will be disinterested!

Microsoft didn't pay 50 million bucks to try to break even, they were looking to make big profits, and if their software sales are sitting @ only 6.5 million... they made a bad investment.

If they don't include free nude shots of Kim Kardashian, Expect an even LESSER percentage of DLC sells for the next installment.

[dachiefsman]

How is it way to late?

What is the difference between this and expansion for other games?

GTAIV wasn't a bad game, it just wasn't great. It just annoying reading comments about a game, and you haven't even played/experienced it.

You miss interpreted my point which refutes your point.

[dkgshiz]

Since the 360 version made only half of the GTA 4 sales. DLC is not worth $50 million. What a waste. You could of made another decent game with that money.

[Raoh]

another thing the writer got wrong or doesnt understand is that games do move consoles. its just that not every 360 and ps3 gamer is a hardcore fan.

star ocean helped move some 360s in japan. mgs4 helped move some ps3's as well.

i dont think halo odst will move any consoles as any hardcore halo fan already owns a 360 for halo 3.

but sony still has plenty franchises that can move consoles. full release of gran turismo 5, god of war 3 will.

thing is microsoft banked on gta4 turning the tides and all it did was feed the fanboy wars

[Unicron]

Exclusive titles make sense. They define platforms. While its not always a great idea for third parties to do in this tough economic time, proper incentives and monetary deals can make it worthwhile.

Personally, I feel exclusive DLC or timed exclusives, be it for the PS3 or 360 or Wii, are stupid.

Timed exclusives hurt sales of the game on ONE of the eventual platforms.

Exclusive DLC spits in the face of your fanbase by saying even though you are a fan, you're money's no good and we don't give a damn about ya.

[Blades08]

The problem with DLC is that the time frame it comes out and the lasting affects of the game. If a game is good and the DLC comes out within 4-6 months it will sell well. When it's closer to a year gamers have moved on since then and sales of the DLC drops. So better planning is needed on the development and release of the game. The issue with GTA 4 was it was to constrained with the constant up keeping of your gf and your uncle, it was so repetitive and I moved on to the next game.

[Condemnedman]

wow there are some lame stuff thrown around on this site > no one but microsoft and take2 knows what went on over GTA, just because it's on the web, does not make it true cant you silly fanbois just get over it and get a girlfriend . BOTH SIDES

[CobraKai]

$50 Million dollars going toward a dlc for a multiplatform game is just stupid. Whoever brokered that deal prolly paid an extra 5 grand for power windows for his car. It's money that could have gone to much better causes, like giving it to me.

[Shortstop]

I can't even remember the last time I played GTA4, and I didn't even bother beating it before I traded it in a few weeks ago to get an exclusive PS3 game named Killzone 2.

Then I bought The Show (another Sony exclusive) last week.

I definitely am enjoying my investment in the PS3.

[STIKUP ARTIST]

DLC is the only reason I bought this game on XBOX, and im happy I did.
LAD is the sh!t.

[crazyclown]

cost to get exclusivity ~50,000,000.00
revenues from sales ~20,000,000.00 MAX
cost of failure - priceless

[Cajun Chicken]

See, I'm wondering if I should get a cheap secondhand copy of GTAIV for 360, buy the DLC or y'know, just wait until the ultimate version of GTAIV comes out on PS3 with all three chapters at a reasonable price like the way the game was supposed to be in the first place.

If you know Rockstar, it will happen.