Did Gears of War Innovate the Cover System

From the editorial:

"As the graphical prowess of Xbox 360 games become a familiar and taken-for-granted normality, they have to individually reinvent themselves on a deeper level, in order to stand out from the crowded release schedules and stand up to the test of time. While it may be an obvious fact, good graphics only give a game temporary appeal since they can become outdated relatively quickly, but good game design is timeless and classic. An innovative design feature in a game may quickly become a selling point of its entire genre, with subsequent clones adapting it with ill-consideration merely to get a slice of the profits, but its original invention and subsequent reinvention proves that, as Epic's mantra goes: design is indeed God."

[LONEWOLF231]

Not really IF i am not mistaken the first game that had this type of cover system first was Killswitch, everyone followed suite there after.

[Fishy Fingers]

Yup, Killswitch is certainly the "innovator", Gears helped refine the concept, but if you watch some Killswitch gameplay > http://www.n4g.com/gaming/N... it's obviously the starting block. It still looks fun now :)

You can see so many aspects of that game in future (current) games.

[Trollimite]

why is this in the ps3 section? mod please move this

[thereapersson]

Man, I forgot how crappy the animation on the characters were in that game...

Still, the major component of Gears of War can really be attributed to this game, as well as a game called "WinBack" on the PS2 / N64.

[Valkyrie83]

PS3 section removed; good article ....I think the cover system did start some time before Gears of War but it seems as though that game really made it mainstream and tweaked the cover system allowing gamers to use it more.....

[Coconutz919]

Ah, you beat me to it! I remember Winback very well, and I actually really liked the game back in the day, mostly because of the cover system. It's a shame Winback 2 was a bust.

[edgeofblade]

Sure, Killswitch did lay the ground work, but I think Gears' roadie run and cover transitions did a lot to refine the model. Instead of just "cover", now there are mechanisms to help you move from cover to cover.

I think we can agree that third person is important for doing cover right, which is why I think Killzone 2 didn't do it quite right.

[phosphor112]

No mention of the ORIGINAL game that made the cover system. ALSO if Gears didn't have a cover system, it wouldn't be "frustrating" and w/e, it would be a completely different game, because devs aren't stupid enough to make a game where you NEED cover, without the ability to take cover. This is f*cking stupid.

[she00win99]

if you read the article the writer just reminded us that the mgs series has a cover system too and it was released way before gears of war..

[GWAVE]

There was a game for the origial Xbox called "Strike Force Nemesis" or something like that. Other than having inferior graphics, it has every aspect of the cover system in Gears 2: blind fire, the "roadie run", sliding along cover, jumping from cover to cover, etc.

Anyway, I say that because Kill.switch wasn't the only game to contribute to the cover system before Gears came along. WinBack and Psy-Ops also had cover systems, IIRC.

[Tempist]

Popularization of the cover system; yes it did do that. Did it innovate it? No, not really.

The article left out Uncharted's cover system which has this little unique feature of having it crumble away over time, or Nathen reacting to being shot at, or I recall a number of times, being out flanked / forced to find new cover.

Credit where credit is due for sure, but make sure you credit everyone for their part. Will be interesing to see how Uncharted 2 takes on the cover system.

[ikaris]

I remembered getting killswitch because the cover system looked cool.
All gears of war fanboys think their cover system is innovative and new from other games, but I'd hate to break it to you kids, cliffy is human, and takes ideas from other humans, just like all video game designers do.
It was 'refined' I guess, because ever implementation in another game has to be done a little differently, but in killswitch I never remember trying to RUN somewhere and getting stuck in cover instead. oh, and killswitch was actually challenging, and a lot less buggy than gow2.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Killswitch started it and Gears perfected it.

[DA_SHREDDER]

Killswitch is a better game then gears IMO. Gears didn't innovate anything. It actually suffers from bad gameplay mechanics. The game sucks. It wouldn't even be worth mentioning if the game didn't have the lancer. Gears is freaking last gen compared to Killswitch.

[ThanatosDMC]

Actually, Winback on the PS2 did cover system first. 4 players deathmatch on Winback was pretty hilarious... melee first then shoot 2-3 times.

[cappakrako]

it had a cover system. does that not count cause it's ps1?

[soccerstar]

I have always thought that Rainbow Six had a much better cover system then Gears

[phosphor112]

Cover systems refer to shoot/hiding, while MGS utilized a sneaking system, based on stealth, yeah, you can ditch the baddies by finding "cover" and waiting, but it was more of a hiding spot, not a spot to give you cover as you shot back at them...I love MGS though <3

[Shepherd 214]

Gears did innovate the cover system. Its so easy to use a 5 year old could do it, but it can be used so strategically which is what makes gears copies sell. Of course other games used a cover system before gears, but gears innovated it by making it crucial to survival and revamping the ease-of-use and the way its used.

Oh wait that cant be because this is a 360 game!!!!/sarcasm

[Trollimite]

time crisis did

[edgeofblade]

You can compare first and third person shooters, but I don't think on rails shooters compare as well. It's like Apple, Oranges, and Green Beans. It's not even a fruit.

[manwich25]

Syphon Filter invented cover based gameplay.

[DelbertGrady]

Nope. To be picky a PC/Amiga/SNES/etc game called Blackhawk/Blackthorne did. It was released in 1994, developed by none other than Blizzard.

Blackthorne
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Before that there was a game called Hostages that also had coverbased gameplay. It was released in 1988 and was developed by Infogrames.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[phosphor112]

I can understand how that game has a cover system, but I think they were referring to a 3D game >_<. Nice looking game though, is it freeware yet?

[Lord Vader]

Loved me some Syphon Filter.

[Shepherd 214]

its not about what invented it its about what made the cover system innovative.

gears did that.

[Bathyj]

I can literally think of a dozen games I've played, that had a cover system before Gears.

And Rainbow 6 came out at the same time and did it better as well.

[UltimaEnder]

The article isn't called "Did Gears of War Create the Cover System"; it's discussing the innovation of it. Of all those games that you are thinking of did any of them sale as many units as Gears did, I believe Epic innovated upon the cover system and created what so many gamers love and cherish in their titles these days.....a workable action-cover system.

[Capt CHAOS]

Though, rainbow 6 is pretty darn cool too.
But I do like the innovations in the Gears system.

[blackbeld]

Time Crisis 1 and 2 Have the best action cover system!!!!!!!!!!!

But it was only on PS1 and PS2 also PS3 ....... 360 owners have there first cover system experience with the 360 mann..... how sad can it be....

[killzone2flop]

Your a Sony Fan Retard so what ever you say doesn't matter. Anyway yes Gears of War Innovate the Cover System.

Also get the F*ck out of Xbox360 news this has nothing to do with Droids.

[Fishy Fingers]

"Also get the F*ck out of Xbox360 news this has nothing to do with Droids. "

Says the guy found spamming any and everything PS3. Hypocritical maybe?

[jaybdemented]

@flop

i see you all over n4g acting like you know what your talking about. now your chance to prove it please go deep inside your 5 year old head and tell us what is so innovative about it. come on pp, this is your chance to prove your not completely full of s@@@

[cereal_killa]

PP unlike you other people own both systems and don't have to result in being a hypocrite since all you do is troll in every PS3 is this and that article and wow looks like you were able to bubble your self up you were at 1 bubble the other day let me help you back to 1 where you belong Muppet.

[thereapersson]

Great work everyone!

[Magic_The_Celt]

LMFAO 1 bubble

[stealthx]

time crysis invented the first person cover system i can agree with that...most probably where killzone got there idea from. but i thought mgs invented the 3rd person one.

[DJ]

About a decade ago when they started complaining "Why can't I just hide from these b*tches when they shoot at me??!"

=P

[Shepherd 214]

again i say its not about what invented the cover system.....

its about the innovation of the cover system....*sigh* illiterate people are frustrating

[DJ]

And though Gear's cover system is a nice refinement, it's important to note that Naughty Dog actually improved on that system as well. I say this because Uncharted didn't put up a temporary GUI every time the character needed to do something. And it felt more fluid as well instead of snappy.

Then Killzone 2's cover system is even better...

Games are just going to keep innovating. Everyone knows this.

[Halochampian]

Gears 2 cover system is the best in gaming. I just feel like it wasnt a hassle.

I also felt that Rainbow Six: Vegas had a pretty good cover system.

To be... I really didnt like the Killzone cover system. I always felt as if I was still out there being shot at.

[RebornSpy]

I personally think that Gears has the best cover system in any game I've played. It's awesome in Uncharted, too, but to me Gears perfected it.

Killzone 2 has a more realistic cover system that isn't completely safe. It's alright.

So I would definitely say that Gears innovated the system, just as Uncharted did in some ways with destructible cover and Killzone 2 will do with a decent FPS cover system.

[heyheyhey]

@Halochampian

yeah... and that's a good thing

cover shouldn't make you invincible, you should always feel vulnerable and constantly moving around and being dynamic... adding to this element was the excellent Helghast AI

[DJ]

The traditional cover system a lot more user-friendly. Anyone of any age could jump right in and figure it out, without the need for a tutorial.

[Halochampian]

You arent invincible in gears cover either. I snipe guys heads off all the time from behind cover.

I am just saying that in Killzone 2, I felt that it was even cover.. That I was just crouching behind something with my gun up in the air.

[Shepherd 214]

oh yea? when bullets are flying at you, i guarantee 100% you will be smacking and slapping yourself against walls and slabs of concrete to take cover(like gears), not flowing with fluidness into cover(like drakes fortune). Now wouldnt you agree?

[Darkseider]

Innovate no, refine yes. As has been mentioned by others Killswitch on the PS2 was the first to use this.

[Halochampian]

as others said, Killswitch was not the first one.

[Rhythmattic]

A: NO
Space Invaders innovated the cover system...

Now, Where are we again ?

EDIT: . @ Below... And yes, For video games at the time , the only other one around was Video Pinball. And Ironically, that was in one place in Sydney called "The Pinball Shack".... Ahh, I miss the Pinnies....

[RebornSpy]

Or was it? O.o

[Foxgod]

Before Gears of War:
Person A:Hey, have you heard of Kill.switch, Person B: Killswitch who ?

After Gears of War:
Person A:Hey, have you heard of Kill.switch, Person B: O yeah, thats the game that Gears of War lend its system from.

Think about that when you judge whether GeoW its cover system was innovating.

[thereapersson]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, Foxgod.

It's nice that your console preference allows you to spin such arguments as to what game did what first. For those that actually played said previous games, we know what we are talking about.

It's all about refinement, which Gears of War managed to execute perfectly. I rarely got hung up when trying to hide from the enemy in that game, which is what matters most when dealing with frantic action.

Besides, you can't really believe that people would go out of their way to find a game like Kill.Switch just to downplay Gears, do you? People obviously have to have known about it ahead of time.

----------

"Chris Esaki, who was the lead designer of Namco’s kill.switch, is now working on Microsoft Game Studios and acted as a link between Epic and Microsoft. Did he provide any feedback on Gears’ cover system and blind fire? Does he feel Gears took kill.switch’s formula to a new level?

Cliffy B: Often Chris would ask questions like “Soooo, how do you feel about the pistol right now” which would be code for “Hey man, the pistol blows, are you going to fix it?” Seriously, Chris is an excellent designer who provided tons of great feedback on the project. We had our suspicions about what worked on other titles’ cover systems as well as what did not; Chris was able to confirm our thoughts while acting as a great sounding board."

http://interviews.teamxbox....

Obviously, Cliffy B has heard of the game...

[Foxgod]

You always do so much you best to take away credit from xbox developers....

[thereapersson]

If you can quote me on many numerous occasions when I do so, I invite you to do so.

Gears 1 was actually the reason why I bought a 360, so don't make it seem like I hate the series. It's quite the opposite, really, regardless of how my comments are construed.

[phosphor112]

MM..that Lips game sounds good doesn't it?..lol.

[Foxgod]

Well, you used the word fanboy, calling someone a fanboy that defends his games of preference, doesnt really show that you appreciate gears.

[Fishy Fingers]

There is nothing to be defensive over, Reaper doesn't saying anything untoward about game. He's just stating what the majority of us are, that Gears didnt innovate the idea but refined upon it hugely. That is a complement to both the game and the developers.

Nothing wrong with defending what you like but to lose sight of objective opinions purely as you deem them in some way negative is a bit much (especially when they're not even negative).

[Foxgod]

Um.... he started off by calling me a fanboy because i defend a title of my preference.

how is that something not to get defensive for ?

[name]

I thought metal gear solid had the first cover system?

[phosphor112]

No, just sneaking, you weren't able to shoot until the second 1, and that was only peak out and shoot (left and right)

[AliC]

There was a police type game on the spectrum that had a cover system of sorts as well, the name of the game however I cannot remember.

[Karum]

I wouldn't say they innovated, refined is a better word and probably more accurate. That isn't a bad thing either, overal I like the cover system in Gears 2, they did a good job with it so doesn't matter if they innovated with it or not.

The one thing I hate in Gears 2 is that if I want to hop over a wall or object when it's the only way through I have to take cover first and then jump over, it just feels like it lacks fluidity. It's not a game breaker ofc but it is a little bit annoying at times, at least to me. Fun game overall though maybe I'll get around to finishing it over the weekend.

[name]

You can do that in uncharted.

[rhood022]

Shhh.. Name

Of course the cover system in Uncharted is more natural. ND took the cover system and found a way to implement it into the game without it feeling like you're forced into doing it. In fact, ND took the concept and *gasp* refined it from the Gears system.

But the game didn't reinvent the wheel. So it doesn't matter.

/sarcasm

[no-spin]

yep, Uncharted is under the file
"PS3 game that did not change the way i see the world, nor change my life = failure"
GoW2 is under the file
"Another fine 360 game = All hail 360"

[timmyrulz]

Gears maynot have invented the cover system but it certainly nailed and patened it.

When ever one thinks cover system, Gears comes to mind, its accociated with the cover systems like Hoover is to the Vacuum cleaner or Formica is to laminate

[thereapersson]

A game doesn't necessarily have to "invent" something to be successful at it. Just look at Killzone 2 and its gameplay mechanics, for example.

Gears took the cover system and made it accessible on a widespread level.

[ballsofsteel]

as far as i know kill.switch started it and gears just smoothed out the rough edges. gears one was definitely not innovative but it doesn't need to be cause the game is still extremely fun at it's core. i hate how everyone now a days take points off for games that don't innovate when all a good game needs to be is unique and fun

[Scelestus]

...planetxbox from the days when they flamed me for saying the Xbox wont outsell the PS2. Anyway. Kill.switch as everyone has indicated. Also, Gears lets you move from cover to cover, but have you ever tried to shoot effectively from the hip? It's a no-go. Both Uncharted and Killzone have improved on this.

[titntin]

There were tons of games that used the cover system long before GOW ever did. They made it work very nicely, but they certainly didn't invent it as it had been used in a great number of games before.

[rhood022]

And yet another pointless article that lauds something a 360 does and claims it's a "shining example of innovation" while completely ignoring reality (and a few choice "copy cats" in the process).

Yes Gears brought the "cover system" to the masses--based largely on the number of units sold--but claiming that it's a shining example because the game was designed around such aspect is fundamentally flawed.

In Gears, the cover system is not natural. People like to laugh at the concept of the "red barrel" but in Gears the cover system IS the red barrel. Take the rock worm. They only appear in areas where there is no readily available cover and you can easily spot the areas where you need them by the localized presence of the fruit (that doesn't appear anywhere else other than those predestined areas).
It's the same with the disappearing cover which-- with one exception-- is located in the ONE part of the level that has no other cover system. I mean, really?

More importantly, the way the game is designed around the use of the cover system betrays any sense of suspense. For example, you come to a hall way and, low and behold, there is an alternating row of barricades---gee I wonder if you will be attacked the moment you walk into the hall. I mean, you can pretty much gauge HOW tough a certain section is based on the amount of cover.

[UltimaEnder]

WOW your fanboyism really came shining through there; only someone as biased as you could possibly make such ridiculous claims about one of the best franchises in this generation; after everything you just said let me as you what your example of prime game development would be?

[rhood022]

Ahh yes. Because I have a complaint about a short sighted article I'm a fanboy---despite the fact Gears of War 2 is pretty well represented in the Gamertag located in my user profile.

And obviously you missed the point of my comment---which was directed at the article's claim that because the game was designed around such a system that it is a "shining example."

But so you think I'm not answering your question, a prime example of game development with regards to the cover system is the ability to use it without making it feel contrived. By making it available (based off the fact that you should be able to hide behind a wall) while not forcing you to rely on it to progress.

For all its other faults, GRAW strikes a good balance with this system in that you use what's available--i.e. the natural environment-- and don't have to rely on artificial constructs to "show" off the system. More importantly, you can progress through the game knowing the system is there but not being forced to use it at every turn.

EDIT @ above: It probably doesn't matter that I answered your question. Your kind are never looking for an answer. You criticize then put people on your ignore list so you don't have deal with it. It's the message board equivalent of shutting your eyes, covering your ears and going "lalalalala..I can't see or hear you..lalalala"

@below

My reason for commenting is not based on the fact that the game is designed around the cover system. My comment is geared towards the article's claim that BECAUSE it is designed this way Gears is THE "shining example" of games that use the cover system.

My examples express why I BELIEVE (aka IN MY OPINION) making such a claim using the " it was designed this way" reasoning is flawed.

[BX81]

Why are you so upset about this? Gears is designed around the cover system. Plain and simple it's ment to be tactical not natural. Sure uncharted has the cover system but you have to look at how slow the enemies move around you. In gears you have to be able to pop from cover to cover in a quick manner. Most cover system games allow you to pick up cover and pick off your enemies. Sure you can do this in Gears as well but how long will you stay alive? Innovator?.. I'd say yes because of the type of play the cover system provides. Originator?.. obviously not. and before anyone says fanboy or what ever lame term nerds come up with I own both a 360 and a PS3. My favorites for both platforms are Gears 2 and Uncharted.

[DARK WITNESS]

@rhood..

what you have said is bang on ! i could not agree more. i love the 360, i have not made it any kind of hidden fact that i don't like gears 2 as much as gears 1.

@ UltimaEnder ; yes gears is rated as one of the best games on the system and this generation, but it is not perfect and those are very good points he raised. sure the game is designed around the cover system, but that does not been it has to be limiting in the way it's implemented.

@BX81 tactical and natural should go hand in hand... they should not be mutually exclusive.

[she00win99]

hahahaha! what happen to your bubbles? did the bubble fairy took it away?

[Valkyrie83]

I think the article does a good job of showing that the cover system was refined/improved upon in Gears of War and thus made it a main stream staple for video game developers all over the globe; no one can take that away from Epic Games.....90% of games would say the words Gears of War when asked about the cover system, just from generalities....

[mastiffchild]

All Gears really did(but did it really well and with finesse to boot) was bring that cover system to a wide and eager for the new HD console market. Epic had the full support of MS in pulling this off and while Kill/Switch was the innovator Gears certainly made the system both famous AND successful and this needs to be made clear.

Innovation-no but exposure and success-yes. Timing plus a good game made Gears successful after they took the very best bits from elsewhere and made them it's own-as they say,"genius steals, talent borrows".

[jmare]

Gears, While a fun game, is essentially a very linear shooter with cover put in. Games need to take the concept of cover and design levels that are more open yet still allow for an effective cover system. Uncharted was a step in the right direction on some of its levels. The reason everyone points to gears as the "innovator of cover" is because MS marketed the hell out of it and got enough people to play it.

[jcgamer]

my favorite games this gen all have it...from Uncharted, Gears, to GTA 4...and i had a SMILE on my face when i went into cover for the first time in the Kizzy 2 demo...OH YEAH :) now i can NEVER go back! if an FPS doesn't have cover, TRASH IT, i don't want it! sorry...it just feels so natural...if an enemy is trying to fill you with bullets, hell yeah you would find cover....DUH!

lol

[BX81]

The first thing I look for is graphics, smooth game play and a cover system.

[MrJack]

Because that still has the best and most fluid cover system of all time (In my opinion) It just feels more natural. Can't wait to see where Uncharted 2 will go with it!

[rhood022]

you're so naive.

Everybody knows that Uncharted never innovated, improved or did nothing new within the genre.

/sarcasm

[Socomer 1979]

but gears cover annoys me big time.
I hate that there is no jump or climbing button.
Why do I have to slam into cover to get over obstacles?
It bothers me.

Rather play MGO instead.
Its good to have options so you are not just following the crowd.

[njr]

No. Everyone obviously knows it was killswitch that did it. Gears just refined it for the HD generation.

[Valkyrie83]

Yes it did refine it for the public boom that has become the gaming market these days!

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

and Killzone 2 didn't invent the FPS genre

and Littlebigplanet isn't the 1st 3d platformer

Sure games have to do something new to truely stand out from the crowd, but even if it DON'T do anything new but it does what it does well... it very well can still stand out from the crowd!

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

That honor goes to Kill Switch

[thehitman]

Actually Uncharted perfected the cover system. Even gears devs said it in interview that they took UC system and gave props to it and used it in Gears2. But at the end neither innovated the cover system but gears surely doesnt deserve any credit w/ it.

[Rainstorm81]

Uncharted dosent get enough credit. It did refine what gears1 did and had one of the most fluid cover systems in games not to mention the graphics , it is still "one of" the best looking games out. Drake shows diferent emotion when in cover and being shot at. Not to mention Uncharted (albeit with help from eidos developers) is quickly replacing Tomb Raider in that adventure Genre. Uncharted 2 WILL end up making people give the series the respect it deserves.

[thehitman]

It stomped kicked and threw Tomb Raider out the window to a hay filled with needles.

[Covenant]

Uncharted's a great game, but it's not quite the household name that Tomb Raider is. Maybe Uncharted 2 changes that.

However, you can't count Lara Croft out, even after the so-so sales of Underworld (in spite of the fact that it's a solid game).

Besides, isn't there room for two great action/adventure franchises? I mean, if Halo and Killzone can exist in the same universe, why can't Uncharted and TR?

[bigbomber]

the best cover even ask GOW1-2 DEVS they even said that thay tred to copy it..

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Gears came out and was developed before Uncharted, and Epic never said they tried to copy Uncharted, it's the other way around.

Nice try droid... but you fail.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Epic took Uncharted's cover system into consideration, meaning they implemented into Gears of War somewhat.

[Covenant]

Killswitch did it first, but I think Gears perfected it.

So not innovation, but improvement.

[pshizle]

there were many games out there that had a cover system but no one of them were as fluent or good as gears

[Socomer 1979]

its cover mechanics were first in the next gen.
I bought a 360 for that game.

Gears just arcaded it & stlole everything from resident evil 4.
At least for me it sure did feel that way.

Timeline: was playing socom 3 & resident evil 4 on ps2.
I bought ghost recon after beating rainbow six operation lockdown.
I was disgusted with ghost recon & sucked it up because ps3 was delayed.
so I couldn't wait to play a next gen system. I bought ghost recon in 2006 for xbox360
& played gears. I thought gears looked great. It was a bit heavier in graphics than ghost recon but I just could not help but to think, they got the idea for this game from resident 4.

[Dark General]

It didn't innovate the cover system in my eyes. I played Killswitch when it first came out and it was a forgotten gem. Gears did however REFINE it and polish it to a very nice sheen.

[Enigma_2099]

NO.
Did GoW refine the cover system?
YES.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Cliffy has said many times the inspiration for the Gears cover system was nipped from Killswitch. They just improved on it.

He has also stated he loved the way Uncharted implimented cover and they were inspired by how they also improved on it.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Gears has no innovation whatsoever.

[Ldubbz]

Obviously there is a bit of contention as to who started the cover system first. As far as I know, Kill.Switch was the main one that I was aware of. But even saying "cover system" is contentious; in Halo:CE you use cover. In plenty of games you use cover, though there wasnt a "system" built around it.

But the word innovate doesnt mean create. Gears definitely innovated in this area. When you think cover system, you think Gears first. But that doesn't take away from kill.switch being one of the originators of the idea.

Rainbow Six further innovated on the idea, with the camera pulling away to third person (since it is a FPS).

EDIT: and actually, thats a somewhat incorrect use of the word innovate. You wouldnt say "Did Ford innovate the car?" or "Did Sony innovate the Personal music player?"

[Dark General]

That is true. The difference between Inventive and Innovate. I just don't think that it was that much of a drastic change.

The act of innovating; the introduction of something new, in customs, rites, etc; A change effected by innovating; a change in customs; something ...

innovative - Characterized by the creation of new ideas or things; Forward looking; ahead of current thinking.

That is what i think of when i hear the word "Innovation". But there's also another definition of Innovation:

The term innovation may refer to both radical and incremental changes in thinking, in things, in processes or in services.

The thing though is to me a incremental change isn't enough to really say "Innovative" but merely refinement on a previous idea.

[Creep]

killswitch anyone?

[Creep]

metal gear solid 2 anyone?