Can A Console Be Great Without Great Games?

How far can backwards compatibility and Game Pass carry Microsoft?

[Hofstaderman]

No.

[darthv72]

I agree, the games are what makes a console shine. And from a technical pov, the series hardware is really well made. They just need studios that have their hands wrapped around the hardware to make it work. Just simply have 'the most powerful hardware" does not a great game make. You need talent and that is what Sony has the lock on.

Hell, i can remember back in the Genesis / SNES days how there were devs who could do stuff with the Genesis hardware nobody thought possible. Comparing the games released near its end to those at the beginning and it was night and day different, yet it was the exact same hardware from beginning to end. It was all about the skills of the dev. MS should spend their $$ on talent. Some would say them buying Bethesda and Activision IS them buying talent... but, there are plenty of other smaller devs who would love a crack at a big time gig. And they are more hungry than an already fat cat publisher.

[piroh]

Can a human being survive without food?

Its a same question

[LOGICWINS]

I'd argue that Xbox has the talent (The Coalition, Ninja Theory, Obsidian, Double Fine Turn 10 etc.). The issue is their business model.

MS needs to constantly pump Game Pass with "filler" Day 1 titles like Redfall and Minecraft Legends to ensure that people dont unsubscribe...thus preventing these titles from getting the polish they need.

Unless the business model changes, we're going to see more of the same.

[shinoff2183]

Darth

I remember playing vectorman back on genesis and was so damn amazed. Same with superb Mario rpg. Looked so damn good at the time

[EvertonFC]

MS cant get the talent, they are working at playstation or nintendo where they are happy actually making AAA.

[Godmars290]

@piroh:

???

Can human survive - *SURVIVE* - without food? No.

Can a human survive without *GOOD* Food? Anything from a gourmet meal? Only knowing bland tasteless gruel? Sadly yes.

Better to say a gourmet chef, a street cook, can become world renown for their meals. That MS seems to be a bad cook who, because they've made billions for other sources, runs a chain of restaurants it keeps open regardless how many complain about the food. That they bring in other chefs for their meals, only said meals suffer for it.

[giovonni]

I don’t think this article is asking the correct question. People are so stuck on the old philosophy of gaming they can’t see the future for what it is. So no, a console won’t, but a service can.

[gold_drake]

ehm... ifs specially asking about a co sole tho.
not a service.

[giovonni]

That’s why I said what I said at the start. We all know the answer is no, but the question is really alluding to subscription service

[shinoff2183]

The future isn't subscription based. It's an alternative at most. Tell that to the devs that won't take ms phone calls when ms tries to get aaa 3rd party exclusives. They know that game ain't selling. Ms biggest issue is the day one games. When you develop a 200 million dollar game you need to recoup that.

[giovonni]

It’s not? I’m sorry but have you seen the movie and music industry in the last three years? Better yet go to Best Buy and take a look at their cd section. EA has gone subscription based and so has Ubi. It’s only a matter of time before the rest move with in that same realm. MS biggest issue isn’t day one games because there are multiple streams of recoupable methods. The same as what music did to recoup their sales losses. These devs wont take phone calls right now, but that will change in time as the market shifts. Hell, I recall the same BS about digital gaming “ oh it’s not the future “ now look, even the ps5 pro is going discless with an option to buy a stand alone drive. Adapt or die.

[Hofstaderman]

I think you huffing some cheap gasoline. No console has ever sold without killer app games. Microsoft is trying to kick over the entire apple cart and they not getting their way, thank God. They had the winning recipe in the OG and initial 360 years but are where they are because of their greed and incompetence. They too insanely obsessed on trying to become the leader that they are not looking and learning what it takes to sell consoles…. and that’s games my friend. It has been and WILL always be the case. It’s the console exclusives and their quality that define a worth of a console.

[giovonni]

But yet other companies are slowly following suit. The fact that you missed ever piece of fact I listed says a lot. And the fact that you’re bring up 20 to 15 years of formulas also speaks to my point in other posts we all know consoles can’t survive without good quality games. However, thats the wrong question to ask and any person with sense know what the real question is.

[SolidBoss816]

Giovonni

Well can a games subscription service survive without great games and killer apps in the long term?

[Profchaos]

Funny enough Microsoft's foray into console gaming only survived because of an exclusive Halo if they didn't have halo the other exclusives like blinx wouldn't have saved it.

So to turn around 20 plus years later and say we just need content every quarter doesn't have to be good or anything

[giovonni]

@solidboy86 yes, Nintendo has a sub service. It’s all for their retro games it’s doing good of price alone. 20 dollars a year and you get access to Nintendo’s back catolog and before you say but those are classic yeah back in the day. Now as a console no like I said way back in my comment. The wrong question is being asked and it’s a setup to games a service.

[jwillj2k4]

If you have a thriving service then you don’t need a console. See how that works?

[outsider1624]

Ask Ouya and Stadia...they'll tell you.

[Bathyj]

Short answer. No.
Long answer. Noooooooooooo.

[Hereandthere]

No, never. Same can be said without great exclusives also.

[gold_drake]

nope.

[XbladeTeddy]

Well, if it has no great games what's the point? Game pass is a good idea but it doesn't require owning an Xbox as it's on PC too. I'm wondering what the point of an Xbox is any more to be honest.

edit: yeah I've sold my Xbox, getting a PS5 instead. About time.

[andy85]

Doesn't even require a PC either, I dip in at work on my phone sometimes 😂 don't get me wrong they set up a good service but if there's no games coming you're paying an expensive sub service to just play old games. And if you're getting an Xbox experience with your phone that you have anyway (I play with a PS5 controller over Bluetooth as well so it's not shitty mobile controls) it makes you think why do I even need the console. It would have been outstanding in the 360 days when they had quality games coming out frequently

[EvertonFC]

exactly, use a 2022/23 samsung tv or just use a cheap PC and subscribe 2 or 3 Months of the year and binge play the few games that interest you and cancel.

[masterfox]

so here we are now to the ridiculous point that game websites will start questioning if good games are necessary.

Thank you MS Xbox.

[darkrider]

Is this a joke? Games are what define a console. Without them it doesn't matter. Phil Spencer interview showed everyone that he is done. Tired and beaten.

Only amazing games make you buy consoles, services, accessories. Everything. Great games, means huge profit that enable studios to keep pumping huge games.

[SullysCigar]

Imma say no. Because that's the answer. No.

[hiroyukisanada]

Literally, no. Games define the system. That's why the PS2 & SNES are widely regarded as the GOATs. Period.

[aws04]

Probably possible if it's a great place for 3rd parties

[EvertonFC]

The sad thing about your comment is, that casuals would probably lap up GP at £99 streaming only dongle for average 3rd party/f2p, GaaS games for £15 a Month.

[Crows90]

Great games is what makes a generation memorable. If you have great games on one platform and nothing on the other then that other platform is not memorable and is not a great console to own during that generation.

At the beginning of the Xbox one generation I will be the first to say that I preferred the Xbox lineup over PlayStations and I stayed invested in the Xbox ecosystem because of all the promises that never came to be. It's been decades since they developed a great new title that stayed in our memories for longer than a couple months. I still remember gears of war, fable 2, Halo 4 and 3. Nothing at all since then. Bryce son of Rome was a great title that I think needed more enemy variety and better combat system with more diverse weapons and combos.

Xbox can be great and it now has all the studios, that they unfairly bought out without deserving them, to engage in the competition again. But if they allow things like redfall to occur that means they're not taking their promises or dedication to Xbox gamers seriously. PlayStation needs to dedicate itself to PlayStation gamers Xbox needs to dedicate itself to Xbox gamers this shows and the quality of titles that they release.

I want to be wowed in June by the Xbox showcase and starfield. I want Xbox to give me a reason to purchase a Sirius x

[darthv72]

MS were stupid for not nurturing the relationship between them and Crytek so we could have gotten a proper follow-up to Ryse: son of Rome. Ryse could have been their God of War in terms of big budget epic hack n slash adventure.

it's funny how Ryse came out in 2013 and GoW in 2018 and how they compare. https://youtu.be/TXYJOdtgmK...

[EvertonFC]

Agree with the first part of your comment but its not comparable to GoW imo, although i thought ryse was a good game for a new ip.

[EvertonFC]

Imagine if MS announce a series X pro running starfield at 60fps but the series X ONLY does 30fps. I wouldnt put it past MS to try that with huge backlash from current series X owners.
It makes it even harder for MS to announce a new model with barely anything in 3 years.

[MetroidFREAK21]

No

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Exactly.

[rayford15]

Is this deadass a serious question ?

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Xbone managed to survive AND carry momentum into another gen 🤷

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Don’t underestimate brand loyalty…

[Vithar]

what a stupid topic lol

[ChasterMies]

The console graveyard is littered with great hardware that died because it lacked great software.

[dead_pixels]

Are you kidding? The Neo Geo has a tremendous amount of outstanding titles. The hardware was officially supported for 15 years and still receives indie releases such as Kraut Buster, Xeno Crisis, Final Vendetta, etc.

[shadowhaxor]

Neo Geo had fantastic exclusives. What killed it was SNK's focus on the arcade side of things (MVS) and tried to pit it against home consoles, which it overpowered but was also extremely pricey. The console was $600+, and each game was $200+. In the time that the NES, SMS,SNES, and Genesis consoles were less than $300 and the games were under $70, SNK overpriced the Neo Geo to death.

It wasn't due to lack of exclusives, given that the Neo Geo, for the most part was the only place you could get most SNK games, and even then, arcade perfect versions of those that were available on the NES.

[darthv72]

I know you changed your comment as it was initially about neo geo. So I wont talk about that but instead address your current comment. Yes, plenty of capable platforms have come and gone and are mostly remembered by their LACK OF great titles. 3DO and Jaguar are both really compelling platforms that could do some amazing things, problem was nobody was willing to really learn them. So the games that did get released were not showcasing their strengths.

You had your hits here and there like road rash (3DO) and aliens vs predator (Jaguar) but then you had your stinkers like Way of the Warrior (3DO) and Kasumi Ninja (Jaguar). In recent years there have been small teams of indies take on these defunct platforms and bring stuff out that nobody expected. We really shouldnt have to wait until a platform is dead for 20-30 years to finally get some great games for them.

[TheEnigma313]

this title is so stupid

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Is this a real question? Like seriously?

[shinoff2183]

Some people will tell you how great it is but the simple answer is just NO.

[Unknown_Gamer5794]

No, games are kind of the point of owning a game console.

[Exvalos]

Can a quarterback be good if he doesn't know how to throw a ball?

[sagapo]

Having great or poor games doesn’t change the specs of hardware so on it’s own hardware can be great without games but it would be pointless.

[rayford15]

What you need a console for if not to play games?? To watch YouTube?? HBO max ? 😂

[sagapo]

Well, before I got a smartTV I used my Xbox 360 to watch netflix as well. X360 also had great games tho 😁
My point was, you CAN have great hardware on it’s own, but it’s basicly worthless without great games. When you have a 4080gtx and play a shitty game, that doesn’t make the 4080gtx shitty.

[Traecy]

Absolutely not.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Ever since Microsoft showed up, it's been on if sales matter, if exclusives matter, if new IPs matter, if consoles matter, if physical games matter, if great games matter. This is what it's come to with them entering the game industry. Making things all meaningless in favor of services and subscriptions.

Totally not good for the industry.

[Fonsecap]

Nintendo has the best ip's for decades, then you have Sony and Microsoft in second, problem is Microsoft has done nothing with they're best ip's, there is no killer app for ms, and that is not good we gamers need that Sony an ms be in the same level of quality because competicion is always good

[EvertonFC]

Who even possibly writes this shite.

[NLink0714]

Ahem

Noooooooooooooo

[gleepot]

Well, a lot of people think PS5 is a great console. So there's your answer.

[Nacho_Z]

Obviously not, no.

[UltimateOwnage]

Nope. There have always been plenty of great platforms, and plenty of them had no great games and failed. MS is always selling the “promise” of a broad library great games coming soon, as long as they are allowed to keep buying up all of the multi-platform IP.

Despite having solid hardware, they somehow fail to produce content good enough, and at a steady enough volume to overcome the stigma of always on DRM and the distrust they’ve built with a large part of the gaming demographic.

MS continues their crusade of trying to force people to like them by throwing money at the problem of mismanagement. Loyalty to your users goes a long ways, loyalty to your work force of developers would go a long ways too. They failed at both when they starting pushing pay to play services first and dedicated hardware and software for gamers at a distant second.

[Profchaos]

No, what makes a console special to me are the unique experiences at that point in time that it can deliver since the days of the nes exclusives have helped us have these unique experiences you can get elsewhere.

Otherwise basically just a steam box with a generic controller.

[HeliosHex]

Let's ask ouya,, 3D0 that question.

[BlaqMagiq1]

Why do people ask these extremely dumb questions?

[Bronbron92]

That’s a hard no, yes Xbox has some great franchises with them and their fans will follow with along with gamepass but eventually some of those people do grow old of those series, but people want new (good) franchises, for Phil to say great games don’t sell consoles then why go out of your way to get Bethesda and fighting for activision as hard as it seems at the moment, Xbox claims to have the most powerful game console use it to play great games for your fans and the people who are still behind you after that defeating interview.

[Auron]

It was...... and then they removed retail mode emulation.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

backwards compatibility isn't gonna save ms. only people that are into games as an actual hobby care about that feature. if you ask the average person that casually plays games, like cod, or something, if they care about it; they don't. do you think the hordes of people that play cod are going back to play the older ones on a regular basis? no. regardless of how great a console library is, the fact is most people don't care. the average person that buys a ps5 of series x doesn't care about all the great games from the past 20+ years. they want the latest fifa, madden, nba, cod, etc. it's only those of us who actually grew up playing games and follow what's going on in the news that actually care, and we don't make up the majority of the market by any stretch of the imagination. that's way companies like ea, act/blizz, bethesda, and ubi are able to release such trash but still be making billions.

the casual consumer doesn't about micro-transactions or companies being creatively bankrupt. they go, "oh, look, the new fifa's out!".

[Abear21]

No, but the games are coming…eventually.

[TheTony316]

No? What's the point of getting one if not for the games?

[Knightofelemia]

No games are what separates your product from the others

[Einhander1971]

There has been loads of amazing consoles, unfortunately died because of no real support. 3D0, Jaguar, Lynx

[anast]

Another anti-gamer article. At least people know which sites not to consume.

[dead_pixels]

What, pray tell, is "anti-gamer" about asking if Game Pass and backwards compatibility are enough to carry a system that is, by any metric, lacking notable first party support?

That's the oddest take, especially given that the author praises many of Microsoft's past achievements in the same article and is an avid fan of the company.

Honesty and valid criticism are not anti-anything.

[anast]

What does "pray tell" mean?

"Still, while Game Pass is excellent as simply an extensive library of interesting old games you can check out at your leisure, the biggest appeal of it for most is that day one $70.00 games are available on it."

It hedges. Game Pass is not excellent for obvious reasons. It enables sh#$.Those day one $70 games are deemed "good enough for game pass". They are sub-par experiences. Giving this soft criticism is boot-licky, which in turn sides more on the company line than it does for gamers. Game Pass is not good and MS Xbox haven't been able to make a good new IP in over 2 decades. There is nothing to praise in the past. None of this is an opinion.

What does being an avid fan have to do with any of this?

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

It can, but no use having an amazing box that's capable of so much and having hardly anything to play on it. Even the Dreamcast, despite being a failure of a great console, had some amazing games that are beloved even today, no one will remember the Xone or the Series X with the same affection in the future.