Microsoft facing significant job losses?

OXCGN writes:

"Today some interesting rumours have surfaced regarding significant lay-offs and cutbacks at Microsoft. If the rumours are to be believed, Microsoft will be facing considerable reductions in staff across the board. These would encompass the bottom performers (10% of the entire Microsoft divisions) resulting in 5,000 to 10,000 job losses.

[Immortal Kaim]

This doesn't sound good, Sony, EA and now MS are all sacking people on mass, troubling times indeed.

[HighDefinition]

This seems routine lately.

[Fishy Fingers]

Sadly, job loss' are par for the course during any recession or cut back. From the small shop in the street to the multi national conglomerate. Everyone is cutting back.

[UltimateIdiot911]

This is normal. After the depression, companies will start hiring massively. Then once recession hits again, the cycle repeats. It's all part of the vicious business cycle of life.

[N4360G]

I agree,I hope everything is back to normal soon and all the people get their jobs back.This is nothing to laugh at or joke about.

[UltimateIdiot911]

Unfortunately, these problems will not go away overnight and definitely not within a 1 year time. We still haven't hit rock bottom yet aka depression. We are still currently in recession which means things are still going down hill. I say give it about 4-6 years and things will be fine again.

[dantesparda]

But when Sony has these problems all the 360 fanboys say it must be something wrong with Sony but when it happens to MS, its fine, its normal (not to say you PS3 fanboys are saying that). But take notice.

[BrianC6234]

Hasn't Microsoft been quietly shutting down internal development groups the last year anyway? They seem to be getting away from first party development. These reports shouldn't surprise anyone though. All companies are looking for ways to be more profittable. Hopefully they can drop dead weight in management rather than cutting the people who do actual work. Just think if companies got rid of half their managers. They would save even more money.

[gaminoz]

I wonder what the effects of all this will be on the kind and number of games we see.

Will we see less AAA titles and a return to one or two with a couple B games, or will we see only a few AAA titles and no risk-taking at all? Will this last amazing Christmas period with all these great games be a thing of the past for a few years?

I'm worried for smaller developers who may struggle to find publishers now.

It seems strange that at a time when people tend to turn away from other forms of expensive entertainment toward home-based entertainment (like games) that there are so many game companies dropping dead or cutting back. You'd think they'd see this as a possibility to sell more, not wind down, but I guess it's more about a bigger economic picture affecting every company.

[gaffyh]

I remember seeing an article similar to this a couple of weeks ago but it was about Sony. The comments in that read stuff like "bye bye Sony", and general xbox fanboyism. And in this article there are no such comments (maybe a few), but the amount on the Sony article was crazy

[XboxOZ360]

Well no one is immune from the current economic crysis, no matter WHO they are.

SO MS losing jobs isn't out of the ordinary, but being so close to the others is a worrying thing, and the loss of several decent development houses of late is also worrying for the industry at large.

[InMyOpinion]

This guy is immune.

[n4gzz]

BP gas company is immune. When everyone reported loss, these oil companies made 67 (forgot actual number) billion in profit (not revenue).

Anyway, I hope whoever loses job can make it through this economic crisis. Sometime losing job is worse than going in jail. My prayer is with them.

[lokiroo420]

Its funny how you say no one is immune, like MS is some kind of super entity that is normally above such actions. How about their business practices and deception toward the consumer on all its products, vista xbox being completely dropped like a stone, faulty 360 hardware, lets give credit where credit is due, maybe karma is bringing the hammer down on all things billy gates. Microsoft is a bloated over stretched company that is having trouble competing covering their giant footprints. Monopolies always fall the hardest, cant wait to see how the travesty known as windows 7 is going to impact MS. I am not saying the economy has nothing to do with it, but it is hard to ignore the smear campaigning and faulty business practices that MS practices.

[Rhoic]

Loki that was the saddest comment I have read all day.. not only was it off-topic, but who cares?

1. Microsoft has A-LOT of money.. which is why I don't see this happening so soon.

2. Do you own stock in Sony to even care about their business practices?

[Ashton]

as this is lives of families on the line here.(for all the companies)

much bigger than stupid console war.

[XboxOZ360]

Definitely Ashton, couldn't agree more,and some clowns put up REPORST that it includes Sony, Xbox and Gaming - WELL HELLO . .It does involve SOny, Xbox Div of MS and MS Corp and Sony Corp and SOny Gaming and EA and all those who work for them.

Try READING the article before placing false reports up . .

[UltimateIdiot911]

Like it or not, there is nothing we can do and nothing the companies can really do. This is normal. It happens in all recessions worldwide. People just have to bare with it till we get into expansion/growth period.

[vasilisk]

Dude if you want to call me or anyone else a clown, the open zone is one click away.
--------> open zone
That's where comment's like that belong, not here and clearly that's where you belong...

Secondly, I should have reported the article again for the simple fact that you posted it as industry news and not as rumors, I clearly missed that the first time.
Quoting: "Today some interesting rumors have surfaced..."
See my point? Be more careful next time and that applies to me also. As for my report, this "news" is clearly about Xbox360 and Microsoft, it's not about Playstation 3 and definitely not gaming and Xbox since MS canceled it's production 3 years ago. Get over it and stop whining. As for the article mentioning Sony and EA in the beginning, it clearly refers to older news and uses them as an introduction, but you clearly fail at reading comprehension. I still can't believe that you're 55 years old, your mentality is more like a 15 year old

[XboxOZ360]

My appologies, it hasn't bee a great day . .I unfortunately suffer from chronic and unrelenting pain, which means, I'm on pain medcation 24/7/365, and it takes its toll some days. I usually (try) to hold back my frustration, as often it can get me into hot water at times,

SO again, my appologies, In my defense though, seeing MS are still supporting Xbox per-se through XO (Xbox Originals) it does have a bearing on them . .

Perhaps the channels were wrong initially when submitted as a tip, I really can't remember . . But seeing it's allowed to include PC and while it is a rumour, why wouldn't it be able to go in industry ? Serious Q? . . as it is dealing with the industry at large.

Glad to take this to PM if required.

[vasilisk]

Apology accepted and don't worry about it, we all have our bad days. I would also like to apologize for my last comment about you.

As far as channels concerned it actually should go to the industry channel but there's no industry rumors channel, so that's a tricky one. I would probably approve it if I saw it on the industry news channel as long as it also had the rumors channel selected.

As I earlier said, don't worry about it, I wish you all a merry merry xmas and especially I wish no more pain for XboxOZ360. Have a great holiday.

Vasilis

[Jazz4108]

I have to respond to that fanboyish microsoft comment.

"Windows 7 Travesty" Ahh, I guess you have it already. You must be one of those fanboys that has been playing Killzone 2 for a year and know that its the second coming.

Layoffs suck, they cause a lot of families to suffer. People are losing there homes and wonder where there next meal will come from and all you can think about is bashing Microsoft some more.

Please go to homo I mean Home and play.

[darkmurder]

MS just needs to cut back on certain things, they could easily avoid these job cuts, they spend like mad...

[XboxOZ360]

Unfortunately, when you getto the size places like MS Corp, MS Xbox-Div, SOny Corp and Sony Gaming etc, spending is almost a nessesity, not a luxury. SO even cuttiung back on some spending means that the items they have "in the works" will not ideally pull in the return required or banked on.

So continued expenditure is needed. Sometime more money is needed to be pushed into something in order for it to rise above what is currently happening.

There are areas they could look at reducing of course. Like the ill fated Zune, that no matter WHAT they do will make any great in-roads into the mobile gaming or mobile mp3 market. Apple has that area sewn up like a sack.

[TOO PAWNED]

Let's see if 1UP reports story about this. I know they won't.

[TOO PAWNED]

It is over for MS thay are going to fail, hahaha

[XboxOZ360]

Try learning how to use GOOGLE dim-wit

http://au.gamespot.com/news...

And read half of what is on that link from half of the items listed and you'll see sony is NOT immune either . . Check the "UPDATE" on at gamespot . .

You SOny fanbois really do take the cake you know . . .

[ultimolu]

Oz...you do know that 360 fans were making fun of Sony when workers got laid off too, right?

This is nothing to laugh at period.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

""You SOny fanbois really do take the cake you know . . ."

Oh yeah? I guess you completely missed this article then?
http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News...

And all the rabid 360 fanboys foaming at the mouth saying PS3 is dead,blah blah blah.

Hypocrite much?

Edit:As you can see below.Keele,the prime example of the 360 fanboys plaguing the internet.

[TOO PAWNED]

"OZ

Don't care what that gamespot article has to say, we all know hos MS biased they are and their anti Sony stance.
I will rather believe david Reeves when he says this 8k now (later 8k more) people loosing their job has nothign to do with gaming division and won't affect it.
You don't see Sony closing down it's first party studio, unlike we know who(let me give you a hint:microsoft)
---------
And yes i am making fun above, like mindless xbots did with Sony folks loosing job, how does it sound feel? I didn't see you back then being "unbiased".

[Keele]

Damn, she must've escaped again. She's so quick that sometimes she's able to escape without me knowing, I apologize.

Come, Ultimolu, back into the cage.

She's my b!tch y'know? I bought her at an auction.

EDIT : STFU, DON'T MAKE ME DISCIPLINE YOU.

[ultimolu]

Keele, you have the maturity of a five year old brat.
Grow the hell up already. -__-

[Aquanox]

N4G news tendency has quickly become a race of who finds bad news for the competition first... Sad.

[Immortal Kaim]

The statements above are exactly why N4G has been going down the gurgler, everyone justifies their illogical and ridiculous statements because the 'opposition' does the same. I say don't stoop to their level, fanboy's feed on stirring people up, if you don't retaliate then they should go back to the dark hole they crawled out of.

[drdistracto707]

you xbox fanboys really do take the cake you know...

[TOO PAWNED]

Sony has NOT fired 1 single person(out of those 8k/16 people that will loose job) from gaming division, that was already confirmed.

[XboxOZ360]

Try reading or ding a simple recent google . . http://au.gamespot.com/news...

It's not hard to find info on any company laying off staff, SOny Computer Entertainment is no exception either, it's losing staff in 2009 . . . make no bones about that, they ALL will.

[TOO PAWNED]

Don't care what that gamespot article has to say, we all know hos MS biased they are and their anti Sony stance.
I will rather believe david Reeves when he says this 8k now (later 8k more) people loosing their job has nothign to do with gaming division and won't affect it.
You don't see Sony closing down it's first party studio, unlike we know who(let me give you a hint:microsoft)

[MiloGarret]

Too Moronic, nuff said. You're sad man, really sad, Ozzieboy don't even bother, it's just some 12 year old without a clue.

[XboxOZ360]

And that there is the problem . . If you read the article, I presume you didn't read it all, or follow any of the links to the main news from industry giants such as GameIndustry New, Gamsutra, etc etc etc, all of whom are saying the same or similar things.

By "ignoring" the news and NOT following links on a site simply because you don't like it, makes you unaware of what the news might actually be.

There are several major news articles on that gamespot page taking you to none gamespot articles about many companies, developers, publishers (incl Sony) all facing the same thing,and all laying off staff from different sections.

By doing the "I don't care what they say" thing, is akin to sticking your head in the sand and your arse in the air and going Nahhh naahhh nahhh I can't hear you.

Yes, I'm a MS Xbox-Div supporter. I"m NOT a MS Corp supporter. As I hate the various practices they have and do employ. Plus I hate SOny Corp for also not having a unified group of ppl running it.

It's one of THE BIGGEST reason Phil Harrison Left (now President of Infogrames) As he was repeatedly talked down to and tiold his ideas and thoughts were not relevant about Sony, and what would he know, he's not Japanses. . .

Now that smacks of ignorance from any angle.

MS Xbox-Div was created by gamers and game developers for gamers. MS Corp is a different animal, and actually run by different ppl. The two, while still bearing te same name are sometimes at loggerheads with each other. As both have totally different agendas.

Sony Entertainment (Games section) are very similar, but the sad thing there is, they followed a man who would NOT listen to his superiors, and basically lead Sony's gaming division into a dark red (almost blood red) hole which they will almost not come out of with the PS3. The PS4 is another thing altogether.

That is the platform that WILL see them back in The Black, not the PS3. Even their Head CEO has said the same - Publicilly . And if you don't believe me, simply do a google for Sir Howard Stringer comments on PS3's future etc . . but then again, you might not do so, because you have your head in the sand, yet again.

Both SOny and MS - WILL lose staff in their gaming sections in 2009, and we will see further game dev studios close, and others open under the wing of bigger publishers.

Sticking your (generalization btw) in your ears and signing love songs will not make things better, or have them disappear. But by NOT being fanbois, and by reading ALL information, we ALL become more aware of what is ACTUALLY going on, rather than what we THINK is going on . . .

[Bigrhyno]

While the Nintendo Janitors wipe their *** with 100 dollar bills.

[a_cold_soul]

But this is just a rumor Microsoft haven't said anything about laying anyone off. I'll believe it when it happens until then this article is FUD to me.

[lokiroo420]

When does MS ever let you know whats going on, really are you going to wait for it, I dont think there is enough supplies to go around.

[OmarJA]

Oh oh ! Zhuk you better watch out...

[ultimolu]

I love how some 360 fans laughed at Sony and the fact that they were laying off people because of the recession, and yet the same thing seems to be happening with Microsoft.

Nevertheless, this is a recession and cuts are needed to stay afloat. I do feel sorry for the people being laid off. It's bad enough losing a job during a recession but during holidays...that's even worse.

[XboxOZ360]

I/we (our site) certainly wasn't one of them, that's for sure. ANY company facing possible losses at this time is bad, no matter WHO it might be. AT the end of the day, it's families on the end of the blunt stick that suffer . . not some poor gamer who can't buy a bloody game . . . Employment is what matters if the world it to continue moving ahead, not lay-offs.

Which apply to all industries . .and if anyone thinks MS or Sony games is any different, then they haven't been following what is going on within the industry.

[ultimolu]

Exactly, it's not funny at all.

[lowcarb]

It's a rumor and sad if true. Everbody on this site has had an immature disrespectful moment so there should be no pointing fingers. Let's just hope the crap stops with layoff's already.

[candystop]

"I love how some 360 fans laughed at Sony and the fact that they were laying off people because of the recession, and yet the same thing seems to be happening with Microsoft."

You are nothing more than a hypocrite.

[ultimolu]

LOL!

How am I a hypocrite with that statement? People are losing their jobs during a recession and all you 360 fans could yap about is how Sony's gonna drop out of the gaming industry, how the PS3 is nothing but a failure, and how this will affect their gaming division. You didn't care about those people in the first place. You used every opportunity to attack Sony when there is a crisis going on and it would affect everyone.

Did you think Microsoft wouldn't cut back as well? Tough times are ahead for everyone.

You have some nerve saying that.

[Darkseider]

That people are losing their jobs due to the recession especially during the holiday season. Just hope they can pull through these tough times and find employment.

NOTE: Notice how this article wasn't sensationalized like the Sony ones? Makes ya wonder sometimes.

[Immortal Kaim]

What does your last comment mean? Why would it need to be sensationalised, job losses are devastating without the need to emphasis the point?

[dcbronco]

The Sony stuff was from Sony. Actually considering Microsoft is hiring for a new in-house studio right now, I'm not sure it's very creditable. If it is true though, it goes to not how bad financials are right now, but to how screwed up the system is. If a company like Microsoft that stands to make over twenty billion profit this year, with only a slight drop in projections because of the recession(less than 2% drop) feels the need to cut jobs just to keep a greedy stock market happy by ever increasing profit margins, then we will have these problems forever. The stock market is all based on fear and speculation and it is ruining peoples lives. Hundreds of these companies with dropping stock prices are still completely healthy and making as much money as they always have.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

"Actually considering Microsoft is hiring for a new in-house studio right now, I'm not sure it's very creditable."

I was thinking the same thing. Not only that but I live near Microsoft and I know they have many job listings available. This is probably some "trimming of the fat" and as of now is a rumor, not that I question OzGamer. I would of said "RUMOR: Microsoft facing Significant Job Losses" instead of putting a question mark at the end. It makes me think you are asking me a question to which I reply "I don't know". haha

Sorry for anyone who loses their job regardless of what company Sony, MS or Nintendo.

[Chrissy]

Good to know that xbots weren't socially akward enough to laugh @ sony's job cuts while the Swaste legion is busting guts right now. Further confirms my theory that Sf*gs are socially broken. Also confirms how much damage MS caused when they took away all 3rd party exclusives. Made Sf*gs cry and unable to sleep for weeks an all.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News...

You were saying?

[ultimolu]

Except...those games were never exclusive in the first place and...Sony's first party games are among the best games ever created. 360 fans don't care about playing games. They only care about seeing how many third party games the PS3 loses.

You are a sad person Chrissy.

[Chrissy]

All I see is a bunch of ps3tards damage controlling and making just unbelievably awkward RROD jokes and a few xbots making fun of the ps3 and the do nothing execs like Hirai which are/is the main cause of those massive losses and cuts anyway. Xbots laugh @ the rich incompetent execs because they deserve to be laughed @ while Sf*gs laugh @ everything MS just because MS made the PS3 irrelevant.

''Except...those games were never exclusive in the first place''

Except.....they were

''360 fans don't care about playing games''

That must explain the low attach rate..................:\

''You don't care about PS3 games. You only care about watching them come to the 360. ''

Obviously. And judging by the sales, Im not the only one who doesnt care about em.

[ultimolu]

Resident Evil: Was on the Gamecube, the Wii, the PC...yeah.
Final Fantasy: Started out on Nintendo consoles.
Tekken: Arcades, and then came to home consoles.
Grand Theft Auto: Was on other consoles as well.

In other words...not all of them were exclusive in the first place.

Nothing but garbage comes out of your mouth. Quit while you're ahead.

Oh, and the RROD still exists. And the PS3 is gaining momentum. And a sh*tload of games are coming out next year.

...You also misunderstood my comment. You don't care about PS3 games. You only care about watching them come to the 360.

[XboxOZ360]

Actually we (OXCGN staff) do care, as we love many major PS3 titles, we reviewed MGS4 (9.8) and covered the release night here in Sydney, and have Resistence 2, Killzone 2 and LBP lined up for the site by site members.

We (gamers) need all sides to be moving forward, otherwise we are the ones that lose out in the end. With fewer and fewer games. Although, right now we're flooded with games, no matter what platform you support, there's something out there for everyone.

All major companies have and do make major blunders. None are immune to that. Some can bounce back better than others, some have more forgiving supporters, some do not. The fact is, it's no individual companies 'fault' that the market is like it is . . it's more to do with how governments have lead the economy down the gurgler, which has had many companies make poor choices along the way.

[Oner]

I have to support XboxOz360 here as their site is more representative of what an Xbox & Gaming site in general should strive to be...unlike another one we all know that has nothing but uninformed biased dumbasses posting misinformation, lies, smear tactics & other bs constantly.

XboxOz also has great inside information that has been spot on as well as other little tidbits that even surprise people like Cliffy B with a WTF! moment ;) http://oxcgn.com/2008/11/02...

If I am going to take any information about MS from any particular site it will definitely be from XboxOz360 & Oxcgn.com BUT in all honesty XboxOz360 I have to disagree with your Sony "fabois" statement about the layoffs. Yes they are without question bad & wrong but this is nothing compared to the Sony layoffs threads with certain Xbox types... http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News...

[XboxOZ360]

I suppose it comes down to fanbois in general . . . I hate them no matter what side of the fence they are one. I often cringe when Xbots make some statements, knowing I', automatically associated with them.

I'm sure they are the same on both sides of the fence, however, we (OXCGN) have more problems from the militant Sony Fanbois and we see it more often than not.

I called one Xbot out over the weekend on here for making absurd statements that it was Sony's PS3's fault Timesplitters was (Free Radical Designs) folded late last week "because the PS3 ruined HAZE . .

ANyone that says such nonsense really has no idea of why things happen, and be they MS Xboxt or Sony Fanbois, they make life difficult for platform supports who are "gamers" rather than fanbois.

For Fanbois benefit . . Do not consider yourself a Gamer - please. A gamer really doesn't care which platform a GREAT game is on, just so long as they get a chance to play it. Unlike fanbois who think the sun rises and falls with the platform they support to the death.

[dukadork]

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA!

troll
troll
troll

and then at payback time:

whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ne
whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ne
whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ne

xbollox pussies!

[drdistracto707]

when arent xbots socially awkward

[123360]

15/01/2009 for job loses thats the date,yes the games division will be hit,even shane from ms said hard times a head

[Acj2323]

it will be everyone's turn to suffer at one stage in this crisis, i just hope it bounces back even stronger.

[lowcarb]

I understand were in a recession but find it quite odd for all of these company's to be laying off people before Obama takes office. There's something else going on here that might be forcing company's to have no other choice. These are sad times for many families and hopefully this turns around very soon.

Edit: And just how did I get a disagree? Some of you people are truly laughable.

[XboxOZ360]

I disagree, not with the fact about it being bad or sad or - something that will affect others, but I doubt there's anything untoward about it due to the president taking office (not being from the US, I'm not sure when that is exactly?)

This time of year is renowned for companies requiring high returns, and also stock holders have higher than usual expectations on their stocks, as they to want to capatlize on them now. Perhaps draw on them for holidays, gifts, new homes, who knows. SO if there's unrest in the market, even by a few % on heavy stock shares, they can move their portfolio to something less volatile and even though smaller in price, it could give them greater % returns.

Share and shareholder drive these companies, NOT you or I . . Major companies, well - any listed company is reliant on investor investing in the future, not the present. So if they are on a forecast that their returns will be down say in several months, which will affect investors and returns (share prices) the companies will look at laying off staff to help buffer it, especially if they have already noticed a slip in shareholders leaving the market.

As much as we'd like to believe we dictate what goes on, we're not that influential. We bear the results of their choices, and the companies are at the mercy of fickled shareholders unfortunately.

The President taking office really isn't an issue but many have simply been caught up in something that previous governments have brought about by their reckless methods. Hopefully with a change of governments in many countries, to younger, more apt politicians, we may see a way out of this.

But it will take time. EA is dropping a 1000 staff and has cut back heavily on the EA BlackBox studio, which will have a flow on affect with several game studios running games through them.

[MicroFud]

Good rithens... You did it to yourself. Sucks for the people who lost their jobs but my guess is they will be just fine.

[pansenbaer]

Uhhh Ohh. I guess this is the end of the line for Microsoft. There's no way they can recoup after this. They might as well close shop and scrap the 360. Its doomed. They can't weather this. Ifrit shall strike his vengeance upon you...

/nonsensical sarcastic rant...

[Yawnier]

Merry Christmas!

[Steelspawn]

It seems any company in any industry just isn't safe anymore. Regardless of MS, Sony etc. Not saying that it WILL happen but I am guessing there are people biting their nails regardless of where they work waiting to see what happens.

[leeeeed]

Unfortunate, but expected. The only way big business is going to stay competitive and profitable is to make cutbacks like this. I'm not supporting this, but at the end of the day, it's all business.

I've just survived a round of layoffs at my job and I'm breathing a sigh of relief and understand the position that companies are in right now...

[Immortal Kaim]

You're right Sticky Date, it is unfortunate but it is part of business, especially in this economic climate. The sad thing is, these lay-offs become nothing but numbers, people forgot that these are all people trying to make a living and likely supporting families.

[gaminoz]

I really am sorry to hear that Sticky Date...
It would be a terrible feeling, especially near an 'expensive' season, to be facing that and wondering where you have to go next.

I'm glad you were saved :)

[dcbronco]

but a lot of this is nonsense and corporate greed. A lot of these companies are making just as much profit or are making slightly less. They could make cuts at the bloated top and save the average worker, but it's been proven time and again that fat executives only car about getting another fur for their trophy wife, not average people. Microsoft has already restated their revenue estimates for the rest of the fiscal year(less than 2% down) and have almost forty billion in the bank with no long term debt. They have absolutely no reason to cut any jobs and I would be surprised if this was true in Microsoft's case.

[The gaming GOD]

But Microsoft has been cutting jobs for a long time now. It just doesn't get publicized like the way Sony's did.

Why do you think they have so few first party developers now? And even next year they're going to get rid of Ensemble Studios because they said "it's not deemed profitable in our future" as they said.

[THELANDOFSAND]

I hate to break it to y'all, but the WHOLE WORLD is facing significant job losses.

buy canned food and shotguns now, 2009 ain't gonna be pretty...

oh and check out www.propagandamatrix.com and www.whatreallyhappened.com if you want to find out some truth to the global economic collapse.

[Dogswithguns]

everybody is getting laidoff, including me. it sux bad.