Is the PlayStation 3 Dangerous for Small Companies to Develop for?

From the article:

So is it dangerous for smaller studios to develop big budget titles for the PS3? If making a single PS3 game has the risk of bankrupting your company, surely that will make the idea less appealing. It's unlikely that developing a game for the PS3 was the sole cause for the two studio's untimely demise -- but there is no denying that Free Radical and Factor 5 both released just one game this generation, and now they're both out of business. Was this just the sign of two small studios not being able to run with the big dogs, or is this a sign that developing for the PlayStation 3 is the industry equivelent of Russian Roulette?

[Kamikaze135]

It's just that Haze and Lair sucked pretty bad. Nobody wanted to buy those games because of the number of glitches within the games. Doesn't matter if they were an Xbox 360 or even a Wii exclusive. Bad games don't sell.

[HighDefinition]

Are sh!t games dangerous for companies to develop.

Fixed.

[chaosatom]

But I guess they knew that it won't fair well on xbox either, so they didn't.

I think Ps3 install base is big enough for small developers to make games for it.

The sales have been picked up dramatically for EA, Ubisoft, Konami's, so it's fair to say that Good games made by small developers will sell.

[WANNA GET HIGH]

But it is HARD for and very COMPLEX for small companies to work on.The ps3's cell is very powerfull but also very hard to work with.

[CrazzyMan]

Ensemble Studios say hi.

Anyway,
Evolution Studios(Motorstorm over 3 mln., Motorstorm:PR over 1 mln.)
Ninja Theory(Heavenly Sword around 1,5 mln.)
Media Molecule(LittleBigPlanet around 1,5 mln.)

Make a GREAT game and you will have GREAT sales, well atleast over 1 mln. LTD. =)
Bad or average games usually don`t sell, unless were advertised much.

And motorstorm also used sixaxis as optional control scheme, for Factor 5 not using same was just stupid decision. And Haze, it just needed to deliver and sales would be big.

@The Lazy One - the difference, we won`t see anymore games from Ensemble Studios. What the difference?

[SonyOwnsNextYear]

media molecule?

[Harry190]

By today's standards achieved something out of this world. They are also one of the smallest teams. Small in number, Ginormous is talent.

[The Lazy One]

ensemble wasn't bankrupted, it was shut down. Yes, it is very different.

[badz149]

American media always trying hard to downplay the PS3 these days and this is their latest attemp? PS3 doesn't kill devs, but sh!tty games do! Lair and Haze were not up to the standard/hype thus they were both bashed critically! plus, the economy is unforgiving as of today and even EA has to lay it's employees! NFS studio was closed, right? so...what's the true point of this article? is it saying that 360 is easier to developed for? if that so, why the hell do NG2, Fable2, Gears2 are full of glitch and problem? come on...sonsoles only can kill their makers but never the devs! what kill the devs are bad games!

[Oner]

It's not a matter of how big or small your company is. If you don't make a QUALITY title or just resort to shovelware then you have no one to blame but yourselves...and that goes for ALL consoles PS3, PS2, PSP, Wii, DS & 360. That is the real truth.

[Dannagar]

Poor games did Factor 5 and Free Radical in. However, I can't help but feel that the games were released half finished. I think these projects could have been better on Xbox 360 because they wouldn't have had to spend extra time researching and trouble shooting the PS3 hardware. That extra time could have been used developing the actual games. We all know that games developed on the PS3 takes months longer due to the complexity of the architecture and development difficulties that plagued many early PS3 third parties.

Two or three extra months working on the gameplay could have made all the difference in the world.

[iamtehpwn]

If PS3 had many AAA games that did poorly, then as a Developer, I'd worry. buuuuuuut. That's definitely not fact. Most of the top PS3 exclusives such as MGS4 and Uncharted have done extremely well on the platform.

[baum]

If you're a small company developing an ambitiously epic game, then your company is in big danger. Level-5 and Free Radical were small devs, and while they didn't pay for themselves, companies wouldn't want to pay for another one of their games as you're pretty much remembered for your last game. Both Lair and Haze were not only very hyped and had a very high budget, they were original IP.

These are probably some of the riskiest projects any gaming company has ever tried to overtake considering their size.

[Danja]

so Lair can't be the reason why Factor 5 went under..

Free Radical could have went multi-plat if they wanted , PS3 isn't to blame..

and to answer the question No the PS3 isn't dangerous for small companies to develop for it's actually quite the opposite PS3 is actually the best system for small developers they can easily make PSN games and make profits off it.....

@Crazy_Man - Lair does give you the option of using Motion controls or Analog...

[Xelai]

Both games sold around half a million copies, so sales were not so dismal even though the games were. So the problem had to be developing costs rising and mounting with the delays.

Factor 5 HAD to implement sixaxis, and they were forced into doing it in a point the game was already far ahead in development.

Free Radical went exclusive because Ubisoft accepted Sony's money for it, MS is not the only one paying for exclusives, surprise.

[BigBaehr]

The analog use was not patched in until it was too little too late.

[Danja]

I know Analog support came with a patch just felt like getting that out there..that it does support Analog..

[medziarz]

There's a lot of Sony hate and misinformation in this article.

"Multiple lengthy delays, hit or miss hands-on reports, and rumors of massive development issues started to plague both games."

I've been following gaming news for the last two years and I don't recall any MULTIPLE or LENGTHY delays.
Lair was one of the games presented at sony E3 PS3 unveiling as a preview of what u can expect for the system, just as Killzone 2,
and it launched in less than a year after the console. Haze was meant to be released in fall 2007 but it slipped to 2008.

I also don't recall any development issues either.
All i remember is that Lair pushed video game tech and PS3's SPUs a bit by doing certain tasks in real time to make the game look good from the ground all the way up to the clouds. Notice that other games don't that to this day, except for Warhawk - it's always corridors or closed valleys and you're always on the ground.
As for Haze, it features vast levels and there's no loading screens in the campaign and there are no ELEVATORS to mask it, you're always in your character's head whether it's a cutscene or action - and it's all seamless.

You can find a couple of other possible reasons for the studios' failures if you're goal is not attacking sony but looking for answers.

Both developers started their projects long before the PS3 launched and with no particular platform in mind. Lair was in development for approx. 4 years before it launched and it was initially announced a 360 only title just because the 360 was available to the developers A LOT earlier than the PS3. Haze was announced quite early 2007 as a 3 platform game.

But in the middle of development they both realized their games are going to suck probably because both the studios lost the ability to produce a good game.
They also lost all their money and years not developing anything else.
So they figured that the only way out is to sell the games using HYPE.

Factor 5 probably ran out of money so they talked Sony into funding the game under the first party umbrella, promising making a significant use of PS3's futuristic architecture before anyone else does. Something Sony was in need and looking for. They looked at F5's past record and took the bait. Unfortunately, the 1st party funding was not enough to cover F5's debt, and the game didn't make the money in sales because it was slaughtered by gaming media in an anty-sony hate campaign that began with the PS3's launch.

Free Radical realized that making the game a broken multiplatform that nobody cares about isn't going to make them enough money to survive. They were already far behind schedule and decided to cancel the PC and X360 versions in order to free themselves from multiplatform development issues and to be able to concentrate on making one version actually work, so that it can be released on the PS3 in line with HALO3.
With that decision, their past record and the PS3-exclusive-shooter marketing campaign they generated media attention and hype among Playstation enthusiasts.
While 360 shooter fans would be buying HALO3, the PS3 owners and fanboys would have an exclusive shooter - crappy or not.
But they failed and the game slipped to 2008 and then was butchered by the media and therefore didn't sell, and there was no exclusive
agreement in this case.

So there u have it.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

Wow, I'm shocked, someone finally on N4G.com uses their head with another negative Sony article. People should listen to this user and no, I'm not being sarcastic.

[r3xmund1]

I think Lair was not a bad game and I was hoping to see a sequel.... On the other hand I put Haze in yesterday cos I felt bad for FRD (I loved Timesplitters), and it wus BAD>

Sub par graphics and real bad textures/environments, crap AI, lazy level design, appalling dialogue, glitchy animation and a host of issues plagued Haze.

I wanted it to succeed, I waited for a year for it to be released. It sucked. Should they have closed? No. But I think its just a recession and notoriety busting exercise. A new studio is formed, no association to Haze, everyone wins.

I want moar Lair.

[ultimolu]

I agree.

Just because those games were bad, doesn't mean that the PS3 is dangerous to develop for.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I think other questions should be asked instead:

- What demographics and interrest does the console base have currently in the region you plan to sell your game?
- Size of the console user base (in your sales region)
- How much resources you have and complexity of developing games for the platform (PS3 might not be harder than 360 if you aren't pushing the limits i.e. downloadable PSN indy type games)
- Distribution method, downloadable or disc
- What marketing power do you get from the platform holder, if any
- If you are game just plain sucks

Pretty obvious stuff. Game studios go down and new ones get resurrected all the time. It is just the nature of the business for smaller studios, that rely on one hit wonders.

[Raoh]

bad for small companies. unless they dedicate to PSN titles.

good for sony.. the worse a small company is financially the easier it is for sony to buy them.

[morganfell]

And that is a boon for small developers. PSN has no download limit as regards game size and it assists small developers in distribution. It is why companies like Blackfoot studios are going PC and PSN for their titles.

Working with the PS3 is not the difficult bash it used to be. You just have to have people willing to learn. Plenty of companies do. As Ubisoft France stated, work with the PS3 was no more difficult for them than with the 360. It just required a willingness to learn new tools, techniques and programming. On deve at Ubi France felt blaming the PS3 was a copout.

[SaiyanFury]

Dangerous for small developers to make games on the PS3? Not so much considering Sony gives an open invitation to those devs and Sony often publishes those devs' games themselves. Sony's not afraid of a bit of risk and we see great titles coming on both PSN and disc based games in general. Flow was simple yet brilliant and we see a lot of creativity on the disc based arena as well. LBP was done by a relatively small team, but Sony sponsored them and Sony had a great selling title with an iconic character as a new mascot to appeal to everyone, not just the cores.

[TheColbertinator]

If a small company is aiming for PS3 development I would recommend a PSN game.However full development on a blu-Ray PS3 game is risky.

[jack who]

aka haze and lair

[jack who]

aka working on too human 2

[TheColbertinator]

I thought Haze was average,Too Human was average as well but Lair was just horrendous.

[Gue1]

I'm going right now to rent Lair to actually play it and experience this horrendous sh1t you all are talking about. Because I don't think that game can be that bad...

edit:
Everybody said to me that Spider-man Web of Shadow was horrendous too and graphically it is really horrendous but then I played it and it was pretty cool, specially the battles in the air... Then the same happened with Mirror's Edge and that game is one of the best games I have ever played this gen...

[PotNoodle]

Blu-ray has nothing to do with it, tbh.

[GiantEnemyLobster]

If you're stupid enough to develop a game just for the PS3 then you deserve to be out of business.

[Danja]

I suggest you give Lair a rent , the patch made Analog controls optional which enhances the gameplay alot , the game wasn't bad with the Motion controls , it's just that gamers these days expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter , they hate trying something new it it isn't the old fashion way they're use it..it's crap because it has a learning curve...

the game is a 7/10 in my book...and it still looks better than alot of games released this year , the audio is also amazing...

[Snake Raiser]

Who the HEEL would approve an article from a blog that only has one post?
Obviously meant to bash PS3. I, BIG BOSS be snapin' yo neck.
Probably this guy made the blog over night to defend those comments that were made on the Factor 5 goes ker-plop story.

[D.THOMAS]

If and when you use proper grammer then I will take this serious I stoped at bankrupting your company come on this is basic 3rd grade stuff just another stab at the ps3 and its hard to make games for the 360 to because only like two of them work

[TIKUP]

ONE THING: This article is balls!!!!!

[Gerry Mark II]

Not dangerous at all if you make an ACTUAL GOOD GAME.

Also Sony have stated you don't need a publisher for games on their console, they will do the publishing.

[Nathan Drake]

And both those games were published by major publishers.

So the real question is;Since it's clear you have no understanding of how game development and project funding works in the industry,should you take some time off and find out how it actually works,or should you stick to creating low quality articles that attempt to blame Sony and the Playstation 3 for everything and anything that goes wrong in the industry?

[eZJrg6ur]

The point to my article is that normally it just doesn't take one single crappy game to destroy a well established developer studio. Both of these games faced massive delays that can almost purely be pointed at as an issue with them getting to terms with the PS3 hardware. Especially in the case of LAIR, where they caved to Sony's pressure to make a 1080p game with SIXAXIS controls.

And I know that people will accuse me of being a anti-ps3 fanboy. But... I have two PS3s, two PSPs, and actually no other system. I love the PS3, but I think its foolish to not contemplate this as a serious issue.

But everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I just think its a worthy topic to think about.

-Colin Torretta
Editor in Chief
www.infinite-bits.com

[Nathan Drake]

That's right,and even though Sony didn't publish nor develop Haze,the studios' downfall is Sony's fault.

"Small Companies to Develop for?","a well established developer studio".Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself?

[resistance100]

@ctorretta

I do see where your coming from, however its like you said that it doesn't take one game to take a long running studio down. Now in a way you've answered your own question, as it clearly shows you that both Factor 5 and Free Rad have been losing money for years and this just finished them off and also what you have to remember is that Ubisoft and Sony would have covered the majority of the development costs for the games.

All this credit crunch has done is highlight what companies have been poorly run

[Dread]

ouch

damn straight torreta

i hear you

[DarK-SilV]

Ctorretta you really have good points, but there are other things to consider, (quality of the game, time of release, media take, user base at the time of release, marketing) the list goes on, so you really cant blame Ps3 by it self, but it could be part of the problem,
Peoples say Quality = good sales, yes I agree but not all the time,
Wii crap = good sales

[Anon1974]

Free Radical lost LucasArts as a publisher and partner. That would be a huge blow right there. Factor 5's publisher, Brash, also recently collapsed due to current credit conditions. Wouldn't you think those would have an impact, and not the console they choose to develop on? And don't you think a gaming site should be able to put those factors together, rather then pointing the finger at Sony? I'm just sayin...

[N4360G]

Please refer to my username.It's not dangerous one bit,it's the game developers fault for the flawed design of the game,not SONY's or the PS3's fault.Better games=better sales,period.

[eZJrg6ur]

I totally agree with you there. Like I said in the above response though, the point is not that these games sucked. But that a single bad game could destroy two established developer studios.

Both studios appear to have major issues adapting to the more complex architecture of the PS3 (see the massive delays and horrific LAIR motion controls). So there is a reasonable chance that the cost of learning and adapting to the PS3's architecture represents such an investment that a small studio is possibly at risk when trying to develop a big budget title for the PS3.

Remember that nobody starts out with the goal to make a bad game...

Colin Torretta
www.infinite-bits.com

[CrazzyMan]

Anyway, ctorretta, your article is outdated.
Time, when for PS3 developing games was a hard thing is a PAST.
If most developers these days can provide same experience in MULTIPLATFORM games on PS3/x360, then there is no excuse for exclusive PS3 games developement with problems. =)
Just make GOOD game and you will have GOOD sales.

[Aclay]

If Lair and Haze turned out to be better games, most likely Factor 5 and Free Radical wouldn't be in the situation that they are in, it has nothing to do with the PS3 being dangerous for small companies to develop for.

If Factor 5 developed Lair exclusively for the Xbox 360 and developed the game the exact same way as the PS3 version, I doubt that their situation would be any brighter because the game would have most likely have had the same dismal sales, and the same thing goes for HAZE.

If small companies are going to do an exclusive on the PS3 OR Xbox 360, they need to make sure that the game can go toe to toe with other top games on the market. I bought Lair and thought that it was on o.k. game, but as far as HAZE goes, I didn't buy it and had no intention of buying it. Considering Free Raidcal's track record with TimeSplitters, HAZE should have been a MUCH better game, but wasn't.

[callahan09]

How do you know that Haze wasn't as good as it should have been if you admit to not playing it?

[Danja]

Lair was a good game and with the patch for analog controls , the game became even more fun...

since I dont rely on reviewers to decide which games I buy , I went out and bought HAZE and it wasn't as bad as the media/gamers were saying ,the graphics looked like it could have been a PS3 launch title , the gameplay was rather solid the story was mediocre , there was absolutely no loading screens plus to Free Radical for that , the online was just ok...overall the game is average....not terrible..

[LinuxGuru]

Absolutely not.

Don't bite off more than you can chew (don't aim too high for your initial few projects, and keep a small staff, start with a PSN title maybe), and then grow from there.

If these devs overextend themselves...it's their fault.

[Skerj]

Yup, like FASA and Ensemble made PS3 exclusives too.

[HighDefinition]

What you didn`t know?

LOL.

[Xi]

Fasa and ensemble didn't go belly up, they were dissolved by MS, you know... the company that owns them, who also hasn't gone belly up.

[Dread]

thank u Xi

[DiabloRising]

I was waiting for this gross oversimplification of the situation to hit. Thankfully, the Anti-Sony Force was all over it. Good for them. I assume these pissants also assume that the PS2 is what killed the Dreamcast. Anyways...

The REALITY is, its a dangerous situation for ANY company to risk large amounts of money on ANY new IP on ANY platform. It's also no secret that, all things considered, neither Lair nor Haze were exactly shining examples of amazing game development, as both titles were steps back from prior releases of BOTH companies.

Of course, I expect fools to gloss over the situation and turn it into a fanboy flame war over consoles, when the truth of the matter is, its something the HD industry is facing as a whole. Development styles are going to need to change, as very few games, even the big names, are actually profitable.

"If LAIR was released at 720p and with standard controls, most of the complaints against the game would have been dropped and if Haze had been developed for more standard technology, maybe they could have released it at a reasonable resolution and with less glitches and in a more timely manner. " - article

No, they wouldn't have. The issues with Lair were not just controls, the gameplay itself had some serious issues and odd choices. And the same with Haze, which at its core was just a subpar experience. Putting the blame solely on the hardware is just... dumb. While I realize the article ends with a bit of wavering on the cause, I think this is a very serious issue to address. A mediocre game is a mediocre game on any system, and companies taking risky chances with new IPs can spell death or glory on any console.

This industry is an odd one, and in its current state, not sustainable in the long term. Console manufacturers need to really improve their dev kits and production tools, and help streamline development in every possible way, so the focus can be put back on the artistic and not on just making the technological work. It's a tough balancing act, especially considering consumer choices, and consumer's ability to make something like 50 Cent more lucrative than something truly stunning like Ico or Shadow of the Colossus.

[agent864]

to end your sentences in a preposition.

[Joni-Ice]

Developing a good game is different than being able to build your game on the PS3. Killzone 2, Halo, Gear of War, God of War Medal Gear would all been good games on all systems. However Haze and Lair would have sucked either way.

[Jazz4108]

How do you know about KillZone 2 ? Its not out.

[kewlkat007]

remember they were early developers for the PS3. When the PS3 came out there was many Flags as a small developer to steer clear or take a very High risk.

Early on

-PS3 had a steep learning curve
-Very expensive dev kits
-Not much support from sony(not as much as 1st-party mates)

But Some still took the risk and developed games, now you know what might happen if your game doesn't sell. Employees still gotta get paid and bills have to be paid, as well.

Right now, it's not so much a gamble anymore but if I was a SMALL Developer, looking at this ECONOMY, without much CASH ON HAND and wanted to give my title the BEST POTENTIAL TO SELL, sorry, the PS3 would not be top priority, unless you wanted go multiplatform.

Of course some will sh!t on Factor 5 and disregard PS3's shortcoming/price of SDK's and steep learning curve early on. Still bad business decision on their part but they still gave Sony some love, regardless whether the game floped or not.

[theEnemy]

Media Molecule.

[poeo]

damn you beat me to it :P that was the first thing on my mind too, pretty much.

[Kyur4ThePain]

I don't know. That's a question for their accountants.
It's not like anyone is holding a gun to their heads to develop the games.

[poeo]

just BEING a small company is dangerous, in any industry, there is not a lot of room for taking risks and failing. for example making a below average game that not enough people want to buy.

ohh and someone should ask Media Molecule the question... they're only 25 people (tiny studio by today's standards) and managed to make a PS3 game that has already sold well over a million copies and it's still selling decently. yea it might've been a risk but it payed off, because they put their heart and soul into the game and made sure it's worth purchasing.

feel bad for Factor 5 and Free Radical though :/ and Midway too, doesnt look too good for them.

[The Karate Kid]

If the game will Maximize PS3's Potential then NO--------

If the Developer wants to lie about how the game is Maximizing the PS3 capabilities then YES------

Lair wasn't a bad game. Just a bad decision, Analog controls should have been there from the start, and the game should have been delayed until Spring 08 for more polishing- Multiplayer & Trophy Support should have been added as well.

Haze is terribly dated and should have been multi platform-

The PS3 is not Last generation & a half console. It is our Only TRUE NEXT GENERATION console. XBOX 360 is more of a solution, I call it Cheap Next Generation Gaming!!!

Good games for cheap! But not True Next Generation Games!!!!

Games like Uncharted & Metal Gear Solid 4, Killzone 2 are True Next generation games!

Gears Of War 2 is a cheap Next Generation game!!!

if your game is still released on a DVD format it is a cheap next generation game.

I like to call it, upscaled last generation, like upscaled DVD movies hahahahahahahahahaha

[Dread]

you r a tool

[Knightofelemia]

Honestly Sony should sitdown with some of these small companies and help them understand how to develop games for the Ps3.

[DiabloRising]

A poor game is a poor game no matter the console. And as I said above, consumers are fickle. Titles like Viewtiful Joe are never to be seen again, yet we get a 50 Cent sequel...

[Fanboy Slaughter]

Tell me about it.

50 cent doesn't deserve his fame, much less TWO of his own games. Viewtiful Joe and God Hand were amazing titles, never to be seen again because of corporate bearaucracy.

[Spike47]

it will be average if you find the controls to be okay atleast, if you hate the controls however you will probably hate the game.

[Fanboy Slaughter]

from another minor league site. Never heard of this site before, guess that's why the editor-in-chief submitted it on here for hits.

If you apparently like the PS3, I would advise against over-sensationalized titled articles like this. It doesn't do much for your credibility, certainly not here anyway.

Even you had to know that the title alone is utter flamebait, but then again I guess creating a stir was your goal...

....You have earned a new Trophy: "Throwing rocks at a bee's nest" Submit an article at N4G and watch the fireworks.

[HDgamer]

If the game is just bad yes it will be dangerous on any platform. Hell these small companies could just release it on psn instead of a disc format.

[Marty8370]

Haze is an above average shooter. Lair is fine also. I actually own both and like them. As for Lairs controls, like any game you get use to them.

[Kleptic]

that may be your opinion...but there is no arguing that both games received horrendous press, and sales to match...

making a below par game on a new system with a small installed base is ALWAYS risky, especially when the game has a large budget...

while I know it is still deemed 'cool' to do this; you can't blame the PS3 for everything...both these games were for the most part floaters...that had no business being released in their condition anyway...some found them better than their review scores...some, me included, entirely agreed with their scores...

you could make a crapper on either HD system this generation...and be in a world of hurt because of it...you could make the shattiest game of all time for the Wii though, and be around for years...dev after dev have been doing that since 2006...

[tatotiburon]

Factor 5 and Free Radical are almost broke and close, SK did bad with too human but even they are working in the sequel so thet did some profit. PS3 games are not blockbuster games, name one game, only one game that sold more units than halo or gears of war in launch day, all 2008 PS3 lineup flop in sells, in NA PS3 software didn't make it in the top 5.

If you have a good game and want to tamke the most profit, Xbox 360 must be your choice.

[Marty8370]

Then why are EA, Ubisoft & 2kGames making more profit from PS3 than 360 or Wii.

There are other markets other than the f#cking US.

[Gr81]

I would just outright blame the PS3 for FR and F5's recently going belly up. The same thing could have just as easily have happened to them had they chose the 360 as their main system. The HD dev model is broken, when you have to sell over a million just to break even..that is a problem.

[callahan09]

Why so much FUD about the PS3 all the god dawn time?

[Fanboy Slaughter]

because people read it, and fanboys tend to take opinion as gospel whenever they can find it...as long as it's not a fact and can be exploited for their own agenda, then sure, why not?

[MicroFud]

Clearly paid for by Microsoft.. The writers mom told me.

[360roxorz]

yes they are this is why nobody wants to work with them! in fact i got word a few minutes ago thta MEDIA MOLECULE has signed an EXCLUSIVE contract ith MS to provide 3 exclusive games!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA one of them is pobably LBP for the 360!! hahahahahahhahahahahaahahah where are all your great exclusives going ps3 droids?? oh yeah TO THE 360!! HAHAH

[Xlll]

Can you confirm this with a link? "one of them is pobably LBP for the 360!!" Not possible, for the simple fact not all 360's have a HDD also no motion control. Sad little bot to easy to own.

Oh on a side note wtf is "pobably"? Spell check is your friend.

[360roxorz]

ok here is your link... fully legit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[PirateThom]

He's trolling.

Sony own the IP to LittleBigPlanet and it's Sony who have signed Media Molecule for 3 games.

[swiftshot93]

just to let you know PP sony has already signed a 3 game exclusivity contract with media molecule. Furthermore, the founders of MM left M$ (lionhead-1st party) to work on LBP exclusively FOR THE PLAYSTATION 3. I wouldnt be inclined to believe that they would all of the sudden go back to M$ and break their contract. Also you immediately speculate that (hypothetically speaking, of course) LBP will be ported to the 360 by MM in the instance of them developing a game for M$. However this is impossible as Sony already owns the property/rights to the LBP intellectual property(IP). And by the way, i hope you can understand this post. Then again i have doubts seeing how you are a child.

[thereapersson]

wow, you are a f*cking dumbass

[Meus Renaissance]

Only established franchises such as Metal Gear, GT5 and Grand Theft Auto have been the biggest pushers of software. I don't believe it just takes quality software to push sales on the PlayStation 3, as countless of great titles have performed below expectations uptil recently. But you can sometimes get lucky, Infinity Ward produced a wonderful title last summer and with epic marketing, it paid of. However Infinity Ward are not small. It doesn't matter what single attribute you have, if you are not developing on a PS2 established franchise, your game needs to beautifully created, masterfully marketed and released during the right time of the year. You need a multiple of characteristics to be a success on the platform in my opinion.

LBP is doing okay but I'm sure most expected it to sell considerably more than it has done, same with Resistance 2 and especially Motorstorm: Pacific Rift and the JRPG Valkyrie. Instead, COD5 has been the best selling title for the PS3 this holiday. An established franchise, fantastic marketing - you get the drift. Quality games have undersold on the platform.

[IntelligentAj]

This is nonsense. How many games have those companies put out over the years? Are those games quality? If they were then one game wouldn't break you. That's why you should develop quality titles and not try to shortchange because it will comeback to haunt you.

[RPG Guy]

honestly, anything to burn the PS3. The gaming media are funny.

[PirateThom]

While I think any platform is dangerous for a small company develop for at the moment, making games like Lair or Haze doesn't really help your case.

[Firstkn1ghT]

Of course it's dangerous. It's no secret that the ps3 is near to impossible to develop for unless you have a huge amount of cash, development time, and manpower to throw at it. Look at MGS4, GT, or KZ2. All those games are taking almost triple the resources from your normal franchise. A small company like Factor 5 just can't afford. And you also have to look at their effort like Lair. A game that was riddled with bugs and glitches. It's pretty obvious that they had problems developing on the ps3. The 360 is much easier to develop for and these problems more than likely wouldn't be a problem.

[PirateThom]

Then why do Fable 2 and Gears of War 2 have so many glitches and bugs?

[HighDefinition]

Ouch!

Move along nothing to see here.

[Firstkn1ghT]

The bugs in those games doesn't make the games unplayable. Every game will have a few bugs here and there but Lair was filled with laughable glitches and bugs hence such a low rating. Gears 2 and Fable 2 both received very high reviews with GOTY nominations and awards.

[PirateThom]

I wouldn't know, I never played Lair, but you said bugs and glitchs, nothing about making the game unplayable.

Call a spade a spade, a bug is still a bug and, if the 360 was a great as you proclaim, surely it shouldn't have this bugs like, I dunno, spawning without a weapon or the ability to fall through the map?

[kewlkat007]

even if Sony never gave that much of support for 3rd-party early on,. It was all to evident with how the games came out....Look at the multi-platform games early on and look at hoe they somehow got it right with a little time.

It was a HUGE risk..FR and F5 took.. early on. They should of never. At the end of the day...no one cares about the blood and sweat put into new technology and hardware..Your game doesn't sell then your in trouble.

[Meus Renaissance]

Glitches or bugs are often due to the development team rushing somewhat, most bugs in a game can be patched - something PlayStation 3 owners know alot about I should add. When those Gears 2 issues become patched, where will your argument against it stand? If a bug in a game doesn't detract it from the overall experience then it can be overlooked. Suffice to say, Gears 2 and Fable 2 are enjoyable titles that have sold very well - focusing on network issues or bugs is just a cheap shot that doesn't have any relevance to the actual discussion here.

[HighDefinition]

Lair- Didn`t get good reviews cause it`s was COMPLETELY based off the 6axis.

Haze- Was VERY generic, they should have just done a Timesplitters.

@Meus

"focusing on network issues or bugs is just a cheap shot that doesn't have any relevance to the actual discussion here."

Bugs and issues were the main part of his argument, that was just stupid.

Did you read this part?

" you also have to look at their effort like Lair. A game that was riddled with bugs and glitches"

[Marty8370]

360roxorz - What a retard, wiki not a reliable source any Tom, Di#k or Xbot can edit that info.

[thereapersson]

not to mention the link he posted contains nothing of the point he was trying to make

[thereapersson]

Otherwise very small studios wouldn't be making PSN titles to great success (Q Games / Pixeljunk). Also, if the quality of the games themselves were good beside the technology, there would be less of an issue. Developers make stupid mistakes along the way when they put things in their games that just plain fail in execution.

Haze = Generic art design, poor AI and stereotypical soldier dialogue
Lair = crap controls and framerate issues

[Venomous_1]

This Goes to all Companies Make Crap and don't expect to make money.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

If another developer goes bust after making a game for the PS3, I would expect developer's to break out the lifeboats.

[Figboy]

i don't know.

ask Media Molecule (who went from industry nobodies to darlings in one game in Little Big Planet)
ask thatgamecompany (flow, flower)
Q Games (the Pixel Junk series)
Quantic Dreams (Heavy Rain)

just because a few games weren't very good GAMES (Haze and Lair were average at best. those that played them know they weren't the OMFGflops! that many haters were spewing at the time), doesn't mean that the entire market of small game developers is on the brink.

there is a danger for ANY game to fail in the marketplace, regardless of it's quality.

look at Ico and Beyond Good & Evil. both games are perhaps, arguably, two of the best gaming experiences you will get from the last generation of gaming, and both ALWAYS make it into the "Top Games of all time, or PS2, etc, etc" round ups.

both sold like complete rubbish.

Ico barely breached 150,000 units WORLDWIDE. neither game made it into the Playstation 2 Greatest Hits line (basically, if a game sold 500,000 units or more, it was indoctrinated into the GH line). 50 Cent Bulletproof is a PS2 Greatest Hits title, and yet two of the most immersive, moving experiences in gaming are not.

games like Braid, Pixel Junk Eden/Monsters, flow, Flower, etc, will always have a dangerous time in the mainstream marketplace. especially in a marketplace that is still currently obsessed with shooting as many people as they can in multi-player gaming.

the PS3 isn't any more dangerous to develop for if you're a small game developer than the 360 and Wii are.

Free Radical and Factor 5 are NOT small companies.

Free Radical was comprised of the people that created the hit games GOLDENEYE and PERFECT DARK. they also fathered the wildly popular Timesplitters series. they are HARDLY fringe developers. they are hardly a Johnathan Blow, coding away at their games in their basement. Factor 5 masterminded the successful and popular Star Wars: Rogue Squadron/Leader games.

my biggest beef with the modern day gaming media is that they have such a skewed sense of perspective. if a companies like Free Radical and Factor 5 are considered "small time" because of their ties to two PS3 financial failures, then what does that make Johnathan Blow, or Q Games, or thatgamecompany? microscopic, barely noticeable developers?

putting aside my personal feelings for Lair and Haze ( i don't think either game sucked as bad as the media paints them, but neither are they must have, classic titles that belong in every gamer's collections. worthy of a rental, at best), i think this article is aiming it's reticules at the wrong target.

the PS3 isn't to blame when poor quality and marketed games do poorly.

outside of the gaming media, how hard were Haze and Lair marketed? how many television commercials, billboards, movie trailers, etc, did you see concerning those games?

Heavenly Sword is a game that was made by a smaller studio, who aimed big with their ideas. the game has since sold over 1 million copies, which IS a successful title. unfortunately, the gaming media had such a ball painting this latest "savior of the PS3" as another "Lair," that the game missed out on many more potential consumers. if anything, word of mouth has helped Heavenly Sword reach even it's 1 million + sales total. a few of my friends have turned around and purchased the game after borrowing mine, and realizing that "hey, this game is awesome! it doesn't suck like the reviewers said!"

the real issue that this writer should be exploring is: why do quality games like Ico and Beyond Good and Evil bomb financially?

why do games like Heavenly Sword get reamed in reviews for having "issues" that other games in the same genre have? why did the media have such a hard time rallying behind the "flawed gems" of the Playstation 3's first year (ie, Heavenly Sword, Folklore, Motorstorm, Warhawk), but never ceased to tote the virtues of other flawed gems like Dead Rising, Viva Pinata, Lost Planet, etc, and even titles like Too Human and Fable 2? games that are not god awful trainwrecks, but aren't perfect gaming experiences either, and yet many of their most glaring flaws (ie, camera issues, control issues, framerate issues), got overlooked?

the truth is, Lair and Haze didn't deserve to sell millions of copies. there are other games that warrant that more (ie, Little Big Planet, Resistance 2). HOWEVER, Free Radical and Factor 5 DID NOT deserve to go under either. they were genuinely talented developers, and i had been following their games for a long, long time now, and i understood that not EVERY game they make can be a winner, and i was eager to see what their next projects were (ie, Timesplitters 4 had me excited, since i really enjoy the TS series).

it's a worrying trend when true talent is excised from the gaming industry because of one bad egg in the batch.

to me, it's like the closure of Clover Studios all over again. i hate to see genuine talent fail, while mediocre talent thrives (see ANY licensed game released by EA or Activision. those guys just KEEP churning them out, while an actually talented dev releases ONE bad game, and suddenly it's "OMFG! I HOPE THEY DIE!! OOOH, A NEW MADDEN IS COMING OUT! PREORDERING NAO!")

[Lumbo]

word

[JD_Shadow]

Which also contributes to a BUNCH of people losing their jobs, having to close up their businesses, have news they would rather not have to admit, etc.

It may have not even BEEN the games that did them in. There could've been a LOT of things that contributed to the downfall.

Plus, you can't exactly expect anyone to want to buy your game if your game sucks ass.

[medziarz]

There's a lot of Sony hate and misinformation in this article.

"Multiple lengthy delays, hit or miss hands-on reports, and rumors of massive development issues started to plague both games."

I've been following gaming news for the last two years and I don't recall any MULTIPLE or LENGTHY delays.
Lair was one of the games presented at sony E3 PS3 unveiling as a preview of what u can expect for the system, just as Killzone 2, and it launched in less than a year after the console. Haze was meant to be released in fall 2007 but it slipped to 2008.

I also don't recall any development issues either.
All i remember is that Lair pushed video game tech and PS3's SPUs a bit by doing certain tasks in real time to make the game look good from the ground all the way up to the clouds. Notice that other games don't that to this day, except for Warhawk - it's always corridors or closed valleys and you're always on the ground.
As for Haze, it features vast levels and there's no loading screens in the campaign and there are no ELEVATORS to mask it, you're always in your character's head whether it's a cutscene or action - and it's all seamless.

You can find a couple of other possible reasons for the studios' failures if you're goal is not attacking sony but looking for answers.

Both developers started their projects long before the PS3 launched and with no particular platform in mind. Lair was in development for approx. 4 years before it launched and it was initially announced a 360 only title just because the 360 was available to the developers A LOT earlier than the PS3. Haze was announced quite early 2007 as a 3 platform game.

But in the middle of development they both realized their games are going to suck probably because both the studios lost the ability to produce a good game.
They also lost all their money and years not developing anything else.
So they figured that the only way out is to sell the games using HYPE.

Factor 5 probably ran out of money so they talked Sony into funding the game under the first party umbrella, promising making a significant use of PS3's futuristic architecture before anyone else does. Something Sony was in need and looking for. They looked at F5's past record and took the bait. Unfortunately, the 1st party funding was not enough to cover F5's debt, and the game didn't make the money in sales because it was slaughtered by gaming media in an anty-sony hate campaign that began with the PS3's launch.

Free Radical realized that, with Halo3 and Cod4 on the horizon, making the game a broken multiplatform that nobody cares about isn't going to make them enough money to survive. They were already far behind schedule and decided to cancel the PC and X360 versions in order to free themselves from multiplatform development issues and to be able to concentrate on making one version actually work, so that it can be released on the PS3 in line with HALO3, hopefully before CoD4 strikes.
With that decision, their past record and the PS3-exclusive-shooter marketing campaign they generated media attention and hype among Playstation enthusiasts.
While 360 shooter fans would be buying HALO3, the PS3 owners and fanboys would have an exclusive shooter of their own - crappy or not.
But they failed and the game slipped to 2008. By that time CoD4 was owning everything and Haze was butchered by the media and therefore didn't sell. O, and there was no exclusive agreement in this case.

So there u have it.

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

who is left in MS fit party ??? but rare

[Bladestar]

and yet they are all making money... bungie smiling at you.

It's so safe to make money on the xbox 360 for developers that like bungie they believe they can sustain themselves without having to have Microsoft behind them to fund them. If that was not the case why do you think Bungie would rather become independent while continue working for the xbox 360?

Also, Microsoft is consolidating studios into other groups... Microsoft is not getting rid of the staff or talent that work on any of these studios...

I do not blame Sony for Free Radical and Factor 5 going belly up... they deserved it. Sony was just using them.. and Free Radical and Factor 5 allowed it. I remember all the bull crap talk about how "these games can only be done on the PS3" They became 2nd party developers... they supported blinding the PS3 and completely ignore the xbox 360... they put all their eggs in one basket...

They should of known what's best for their company and act accordingly...

They should of know how Sony functions... Sony hypes the hell out of a game in order to shift consoles... but when the game finally comes out they abandon it in terms of advertising... this hurts the game and causes the media to burn the game on a stick....

Take a look at home... hype like crazy by Sony... and full of issues... the media is burning it and people feel that Sony lied to them.

When you hype a game and people expectations are wayyy to high... people will review the game or thing according to the hype... and the game can be good and it will suffer... causing the game to flop...

This is repeated over and over with PS3 games... Games like Socom, LBP, Unreal Tournament, etc...

Free Radical and Factor 5 were Sony fanboys and businessmen second... while a bunch of companies were making a ton of money on the xbox 360 they were blindly devoted to Sony... They should of at least wait until the PS3 had a larger installbase before devoting everything to it...

Why do you think Square and Namco leave the PS3 titles for later? Do you think Square and Namcom have being in the game industry for ever by coincidence?

Most developers that know what they are doing... started making Microsoft funded projects where their risk was low.. taking advantage of microsoft exclusive and timed exclusive hunger...

waiting until the PS3 was a liable platform to make games on... square went as far as ignoring the PS3 for a while... and even releasing their big guns Final Fantasy XIII in the xbox 360 ... at least in the US... just in case... that's call business smart...

this is why they are in business and Free Radical and Factor 5 are not.

[evrfighter]

I will agree with bladestars article.

[Asurastrike]

I think a failing world economy mixed with releasing expensive crappy games is dangerous for small developers. EA is laying people off too, is the next article going to try and link that to the PS3?

[tk]

Here comes the FUD train....

[Enigma_2099]

... that somehow exclusives on the PS3 are doomed to failure, yet exclusives on other consoles aren't scrutinized as much.

And the boy's right... make good games, and they sell... look at MGS IV...

[NickIni]

Media Molecule are tiny. Under 30 workers, but LBP was awesome. Quality>Quantity of company it seems.

[Magic_The_Celt]

Yeah look at MM!

Media Molecule now have the Rep for making the highest rated exlusive, ever.

oh noes!!!!!!

[ktchong]

Just to put the blame on the developers instead of the high cost of developing for the PS3.

Also, after Lair and Haze failed to sell well on the PS3, the studios could no longer afford to make them for the Xbox 360 or the PC. They had to have another budget to make the same games for a different platform, and often the only way for them to get that budget is for the games to sell well on the PS3. That's how the money come in so they can afford to make the games for another platform that's drastically different from the PS3.

[Enigma_2099]

... when we learned of the crappy control scheme, we declared it sucked... where were you?

[Voiceofreason]

LOL.. Lair and Haze are now complete garbage but they were once called AAA must own by the very same people calling it garbage now.. It is only garbage now because you cannot say that a good Sony game flopped due to your fanboyish nature. Yeah thats for all of you up there now just one of you.. As far as LBP goes... How is a flop a success? Sure it might have a million sold by now 2 months later but that is hardly a success. No telling how many millions were poured into that game and now its only selling moderately well. What about Resistance2? Another flop. PS3 is a gamble for small companies. Anything else is just spin from upset Sony fans.

People are more interesting in the PS3 for movies and have no interest in games.. Why else would the one and only success article for PS3 this holiday focus on Blu ray DK sales of 2 million? Not a single PS3 game managed those same kinds of sales thats why.. When movies are outselling your consoles games by 2-1 it is time to admit that something is wrong..

[NickIni]

So LBP, with incredibly praise from the industry and consumers, was a flop?

Why don't stupid fanboys admit that a game is good? Just because it's not on your console ffs. Grow up.

[Lumbo]

Shows your warped vision of reality, your fanboy hate fogs up your reasoning.

"As far as LBP goes... How is a flop a success? Sure it might have a million sold by now 2 months later but that is hardly a success. No telling how many millions were poured into that game and now its only selling moderately well"

MGS4 had a total budget of 20million USD. Konami stated they will need to sell at least ONE million to break even. The Devteam for MGS4 was multiple times bigger than MM. So MM selling 1,5 Million units in the first two month for their first commercial game is a success. A budget of more than 2 Million USD for LBP would be surprising considering the team is only 25 people in the final stage and was much smaller before.

But naturally reason is wasted on one so completely lacking it. In the past the "million unit border" was agreed upon as indicator for success. And now to spread your nonsense you feel the need to re-define that to somehow make a million units sold look bad ... no one is buying it, give up.

[Blink_44]

No, just make sure you dont make a bad game and it should sell.

[ElMotita]

hahahahahahaha I dont care what this fa*got says. Yes two studios shut down, um when you make games that suck dont expect to get great sales! Lets not forget its also dic^kheads like this guy here who try and nitpick everything about sony to make it look worse. People believe the B.S. that people post on the internet these days its sad haha. Never fear PS3 owners because trust me nothing on the xbox can ever ever ever beat mgs4. I am Serious Ive played all the good games on both systems. I just forced myself to start mgs4 its the best game I have ever played in my life. I dont think my little xbox wasnt happy about that! Sorry little elite your black but just because you have halo 3 and gears 2 doesnt make you better than your older brother ps3! Besides im just waiting for you to red ring haha. Anyways please if you have a ps3 play mgs4 if you dont have one buy one and play it its the freaking best game ever I love it!

[cellfluid]

F all of that talk killzone2 will make them believe bottom line....

[Darkseider]

The only thing dangerous to small developers is making an average or sub standard game. Regardless of the platform it is released for.

Haze, Lair, Banjo, The Last Remnant, Perfect Dark, Destroy All Humans: PotF, etc... If the games aren't up to par no matter what console it is exclusive to or multi it will hurt the developer.

[Parappa The Rappa]

BAD GAMES SUCK. THEY DONT SELL, ON ANY CONSOLE.

BUT BUT BUT BUT---dont forget that a great game can fail, and go unnoticed if its not marketed properly, and if its primary console is not the "hardcore" leader.

Roulette? No. Some things require "thinking" and thats not something some devs had been doing in 2008.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

missing the point. A small company can make a low budget crappy game on 360, and it will cost them little time or money. It then needs to sell fewer copies to become profitable, plus 360 has a larger install base that actually buys games.

However with PS3 you can't make a game quickly and cheaply. This is why we see so many budget titles skipping the PS3 all together this generation. Development for the PS3 is more risky.

[maspi]

no.free radical and factor5 was already in trouble.and simply Free radical and factor5 are victims of this recession.plus their titles were crap.and peoples don't buy crappy games.remember that Free radical's Haze was made to make money for the future development of timesplitter 4 multiplatform.A small company can make a low budget game but however they have to pay their employees for the entire period of development.profits returns after if the game have good sales.So if the game fail to sell well on ps3 or xbox360 or any other console,the small company shut down.simple.
Instead media molecule is an example of pure genius and they've made a great game.

[djroberts]

Short answer, no. Look at Everyday Shooter. Small companies just need to be more creative and less technical.

[McDaygo]

....meaning it has the chance to sell well, then yes. If a company can't figure out how to get the best game out with the best profit by now then I don't know what to tell them.

[No Way]

I'd say yes.. Definitely. In todays economy, unless they were getting paid by Sony to make the game, then yes, it would be dangerous for a small company.

Face it, unless the game is huge, most games don't sell bucket loads on the PS3. That has been proven.

I don't know why a small company would want to make an exclusive game anyway, especially on the most difficult, and time consuming, system to program for.

[cyclindk]

Nope, just dangerous for untalented developers...