Borderlands 3 Was Ready to Allow Full Crossplay, But PlayStation Support Has Been Pulled

From IGN: "Borderlands 3 has prepared an update that theoretically enables full crossplay across all platforms – but developer Gearbox has been told to remove crossplay support for PS4 and PS5.

Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford tweeted today explaining that there was good and bad news for Borderlands 3 players, and explaining that "the publisher" had required the removal of PlayStation platforms from crossplay support."

[DJStotty]

Hopefully they go ahead with the update, just omitting the PlayStation platforms.

[whispering]

This whole thing seems really suspect.

So just a few hours before Sony's State of Play Randy Pitchford (one of the shadiest people in gaming) comes out with a very undescript statement about how 2k the publisher not Sony blocked crossplay.

So what was the predictable effect?

Every site on the internet within seconds of this happening started writing articles saying Sony is blocking crossplay. So now the top story on news aggregators isn't Horizon: Forbidder West but instead articles damaging to Sony written by people who have no way to understand why this is being blocked but are never the less blaming it on Sony.

Again this was blocked by 2k the publisher and no reason has been given as to why that happened.

[thesoftware730]

@Whispering

Wow, you need to get out more.

So you think this somehow lowers excitement for State of Play later today? This news in no way makes me not want to see today's Sony showing.

Stop the Sony balls juggling, take a second to come up for air.

[King Nezz]

@Whispering

This is what humanity is becoming, huh. Where certain news on software updates is intended to make a major console company look bad? Get a life, guy.

[GottaBjimmyb]

Oh yea my guy, Randy pitchford lied about crossplay to put Sony down before the event.... Definitely not like we have confirmed documentation and historical proof that Sony opposes or even charges for crossplay to be implemented with games.

Lovw the new talking point though. Apparently 2k now has say over platform policy for Sony now ... lol

[Notellin]

@Whispering You probably love Facebook conspiracy theories!

[gamer7804]

Uhh it’s so obvious…. Sony makes publishers pay to enable crossplay and 2k doesn’t want to pay….

[DJStotty]

@whispering

Not sure quite why you went off on one, I simply said "for whatever reasons" that the crossplay update still goes ahead.

No one has said it was Sony that pulled the plug, other than your mention of it.

[Neonridr]

then let PC/Xbox players play together and put Playstation players on their own. Sort of sucks as there is zero reason to not allow crossplay for a game like Borderlands, but so be it.

[SeTTriP]

Sony is the market leader, if it don't make sense to them (for whatever reason) they are (like it or not) in a position of strength, they can make demands.

Ps has a huge player base and me as a consumer don't really care about cross-platform.we have plenty probably more then both platforms combined.

[IMissJimRyan]

Sony's greedy condition to allow cross-play (as revealed in the Apple vs Epic lawsuit) hurting the community again.

[Darkborn]

How is it hurting the community? I own the game on ps4 and I never once wanted to cross play with hackers on pc.

[Tacoboto]

It's not that lack of cross-play hurts the community, it's that there isn't a reason to not have it anymore. Why *should* a PS player not be allowed to play with their Xbox/PC friend, when we know there isn't a technical hurdle? Because you personally don't want to create a private party with your friends in a mainly co-op game? Devs have also included toggles for cross-play or input-based MM for the player.

[aquamala]

Pretty sure some PS4 players would want to play a coop game with their friends on Xbox/pc

[thesoftware730]

I own the game and would like to play with my Son on PC and me on Playstation, we have been waiting for this for some time now.

So you see how it may ruin/limit a community for some? Everything is not based on you alone my man/woman.

[warriorcase]

>hackers on pc
It's a PVE game that you play with your friends list. But sure, let's not let PS players coop play with their friends on other platforms.

[gamer7804]

Ugh I want all my friends to be able to play together regardless of platform atleast for third party games…

[Hawk198666]

That's a shame for the 1 person still playing it.

[JAWx423]

Been replaying it with a friend on PC, so there's at least two people still playing lol.

[northpaws]

Not saying Sony is right, but just want to understand the situation.

So, Gearbox didn't know whether their cross-play patches would pass certification before they actually implement it?

It just seems strange to go ahead and make a big cross play patch without knowing whether it would pass certification in the first place.

[Orchard]

It's very common to fail cert, I have never seen a game pass it first time. Unfortunately there are always quirks and platform holders will not review your implementation in advance to see if it is compliant with all of the requirements.

Some larger publishers (like Activision) actually employ their own cert team that compliance tests to the same standards as Microsoft & Sony - but it's not that common since it is pretty expensive, and realistically, a lot of compliance items won't even improve the customers experience - for example Xbox 360 had one that your game must be controllable by all approved 360 controllers - so your platformer game had to be controllable with a light gun, steering wheel, etc...

[Christopher]

It's really not about certification but they want to push the agenda on cross-play by publicly blaming Sony because they don't want to agree to Sony's payout plan for cross-play (something about residuals for cross-play enabling the competition greater than the active PSN users who play the game).

This Is really just to publicly shame Sony to get it for free due to bad publicity.

I can see both sides. Sony doesn't want to freely prop up lower player bases on other consoles as it detracts from why they have that player base, to begin with. And developers don't want to pay, obviously knowing how big the PSN base is in comparison. If Gearbox wasn't worried about PSN propping up the others, they wouldn't be dying this.

Look at it this way: Rocket League doesn't have this issue and pretty sure PSN is the mass majority of their player base.

[SeTTriP]

This is a 🎤 drop comment.nothing else to see here folks.

[TeamIcoFan]

Well then.
https://i.imgur.com/KJ5qPGP...

[gold_drake]

ugh this again. can we put it to rest please? sick of it already

[Lexreborn2]

Was the headline different or something? It looks like people somehow think it was a Sony choice when the article clearly says the publisher did it.

[Fluke_Skywalker]

I've played and loved every borderlands game. But I have never once played in co-op.

[Stanjara]

UUUUUU...You have to! Its crazy fun.

[bleedsoe9mm]

Sony being anti-consumer again, I thought they learned their lesson with the backlash from the vita store.

[Fluke_Skywalker]

"the publisher" blocked it. Not Sony.

[Orchard]

"For certification, we have been required by the publisher to remove crossplay support for PlayStation consoles."

Certification policies are defined by the platform, not the publisher. What this probably means is 2K didn't want to pay.

Also, you don't come out and blame/bash your publisher on Twitter - but you would bash Sony/MS to try and force them to change their policy.

[gamer7804]

Because they don’t want to pay Sony for that and I don’t blame them. Sony’s market share has gone to their heads.

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Of coarse it got pulled Sony doesn't want cross play unless they are being paid and that is a proven FACT. Sony may produce some of the best 1party games out there but Sony as a company has become arrogant once again. Their hardcore fans don't hold Sony accountable for all the anti consumer crap they pull. Now bring on all the "MS is far worse" comments. Doesn't change the fact that Sony is the one against cross play not MS...

[RazzerRedux]

"Of coarse it got pulled Sony doesn't want cross play unless they are being paid and that is a proven FACT. "

lol....no it isn't. What was a proven fact was that Epic paid Sony under certain conditions relating to DLC usage by a player over multiple devices.

"Now bring on all the "MS is far worse" comments. "

You mean respond like you responded when MS tried to raise the price of XBL Gold?

"Can't wait to see how all of you feel when Sony pulls this same move and you know they will eventually. You people act like these corporations care about you lol. Dick move by MS but expect Sony to follow just like they did with PSN..."

https://n4g.com/news/239767...

Yeah....you are the example of how to hold a corporation "accountable". /s

[ecchiless]

man is sad how ppl can be this stupid, like really, they can read right? i cant even see how 2k = Sony....

[RazzerRedux]

Going to put this here so the facts are clear.

"Sony's example chart breaks down how its royalty payments would work. It shows how a game earning $1 million in a month across all platforms would owe Sony no crossplay royalties if $900,000 of that total came from PSN, while 95% of the total playerbase was on Sony's platform. In that scenario, the PSN revenue share works out to 90%—above Sony's 85% threshold, meaning no royalty is owed."
https://www.pcgamer.com/son...

This is a specific scenario where gameplay time on PSN has a 15% or more differential from game revenue. If gamers primarily pay where they primarily play (which I think is typical) then NO payment to Sony is required.

Whether or not this is the issue with 2K.....no one knows. It is all speculation.

[NotoriousWhiz]

That's just saying that if Playstation players aren't spending money on PSN, then Sony needs some extra revenue. Honestly, they should just enable cross play with Sony but disable cross progression with Sony. That should satisfy the revenue issue and still allow gamers to play with their friends on non Playstation devices.

Also this is an important quote that sums it up:

"If 20% of the total Rocket League playerbase were on the PS4, for example, but PlayStation players accounted for only 10% of the game's revenue (because players buy way more skins on PC, or something), Sony presumably thinks it's paying the PSN infrastructure costs for all those players but not getting the return it should for allowing cross-platform play. To "offset the reduction in revenue," the game publisher would owe Sony a royalty payment based on the gap between the PS4 playerbase and proportional PSN revenue.

To enable crossplay under the agreement, developers are required to share monthly reports with Sony detailing the PS4 revenue share."

Basically if some other platform is spending more proportionally, Sony wants that money too.

[RazzerRedux]

@NotoriousWhiz

"That's just saying that if Playstation players aren't spending money on PSN, then Sony needs some extra revenue. "
"Basically if some other platform is spending more proportionally, Sony wants that money too."

"Proportionally" to the amount of time they are playing on PSN. You left that part out. If PSN is fronting the cost while other platforms are getting the revenue then I see no reason why Sony or anyone else wouldn't compensation for that. That's just smart business.

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Clearly u missed the part where I said it was a dick move by MS to try to raise the price. And I love how u picked a quote from my MANY complaints I've posted about MS to fit your agenda but what else would you expect from a drone...

[NotoriousWhiz]

"Proportionally" to the amount of time they are playing on PSN"

Literally nowhere in your article.

[RazzerRedux]

"Literally nowhere in your article."

Literally what "gameplay share" is. And yes, it is literally in the the article.

"If the proportion of PSN Revenue Share divided by the PS4 Gameplay Share for a title is less than .85 in any given month, the Partner will pay SIE a royalty to offset the reduction in revenue." "

[NotoriousWhiz]

I will concede that the article does not define what gameplay share is. But nothing that is present indicates that it is what you think it is.

All we have to go on is the information that they provided which I quoted earlier.

[RazzerRedux]

What you quoted isn't official either. That's just a journalists take on it. What I quoted is describing Sony's own chart. But I don't know how else you are going to measure "gameplay share" except time played on each platform.

Either way, it corrects your assertion that "if Playstation players aren't spending money on PSN, then Sony needs some extra revenue" as it left out that key component.

[NotoriousWhiz]

"Either way, it corrects your assertion that "if Playstation players aren't spending money on PSN, then Sony needs some extra revenue" as it left out that key component."

My assertion was a quote from the article you provided.

You are thinking of gameplay share in terms of an individual person.
The article is referring to it as a percentage of the total population (i.e. Not an individual player)

Trying to determine how much each player spends (as an individual) and where seems like a colossal headache from a development perspective and also from a reporting perspective.

But grouping all of the data in the aggregate:
- how many players play on PC?
- how much revenue comes from PC?
is much simpler to report.

[RazzerRedux]

"My assertion was a quote from the article you provided. "

Which you incorrectly summarized as:

"That's just saying that if Playstation players aren't spending money on PSN, then Sony needs some extra revenue. "

[NotoriousWhiz]

You got me. I'll quote it again...

"If 20% of the total Rocket League playerbase were on the PS4, for example, but PlayStation players accounted for only 10% of the game's revenue (because players buy way more skins on PC, or something), Sony presumably thinks it's paying the PSN infrastructure costs for all those players but not getting the return it should for allowing cross-platform play. To "offset the reduction in revenue," the game publisher would owe Sony a royalty payment based on the gap between the PS4 playerbase and proportional PSN revenue."

And now let's cut out the junk in the middle.

"If 20% of the total Rocket League playerbase were on the PS4, for example, but PlayStation players accounted for only 10% of the game's revenue (because players buy way more skins on PC, or something), [...] the game publisher would owe Sony a royalty payment based on the gap between the PS4 playerbase and proportional PSN revenue."

[RazzerRedux]

Are you serious? Right off the bat you started yapping about Sony even though Sony had nothing to do with it at all. You said more about Sony when MS raised the price of Live than you did about Microsoft. It is hilarious that you have the nerve to call out others for possibly doing EXACTLY what you did.

And I'm just going to laugh off your "many complaints" about Microsoft comment.

[SeTTriP]

This has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with business.

[RazzerRedux]

nm....meant for notoriouswhiz

[Tedakin]

@Aquafiniac Okay and no one else does that but greedy arrogant Sony. They're taking features away from their player base that some may want for greed and their players apologize for them for doing it.

[anast]

Too much work for something that only 6 people care about. It makes sense.

[NotanotherReboot]

my hatred for Sony grows by the day...

[adaminoregon]

Playstation is the bad guy on this one.

[boing1]

It says 'at publisher's request'. Isn't 2k games involved with Bethesda? I don't think it's Sony's fault at all.

[Orchard]

2K are a competitor to Bethesda, not involved at all. 2K also do not make the certification requirements - Sony do.

It's likely 2K are just trying to strong-arm Sony into changing their cross-play policy now that it has some attention via the Epic case.

[boing1]

But it's a completely different thing. Borderlands isn't F2P. What Sony is doing with Epic is smart business as all revenue is coming from MTs.

[thesoftware730]

Wow,

2 different conspiracy theories on here this week alone! All to bring Sony down and ruin their perfect image..smh.

First, NT shows 30 seconds of Hellblade 2 clouds to dampen a full Sony showcase 2 days before it's scheduled to break the internet (x2, the announcement did that as well)...Scandalous as NT are, I still want to see the SoP.

Second, Today we have the Gearbox, the scum of the earth who clearly said pulled by the 'publisher', attempting to sabotage Sony's internet breaking conference mere hours before they shatter the gaming community. To show you how ruthless Gearbox really are, they are willing to gimp their own game and revenue on the highest selling platform just to attempt to stop this , game changing, internet shattering, 2nd coming event...you know what, I'm not watching the event later today.

Thanks NT and GB..job well done.

[CBaoth]

You're right. Whoever thinks that 30 seconds of clouds "overshadows" 14 minutes of gameplay of one the Fall's most wanted IPs is purely delusional. And there is no economic downside to Mr. Pitchford's latest shenanigans. B3 has been out so long on consoles the money has already been made. Like you said, PS is the best selling platform for most 3rd party IPs so there is never a shortage of people to co-op with anyway. All moot points that add up to much ado over nothing.

[Wintersun616]

Why on earth would some want to play an FPS game using a controller against or with someone who uses a keyboard and mouse??? Or someone with an Xbox LOL.

[Orchard]

Because it makes the player pool bigger, reduces matchmaking times and lets you play with any friends/family regardless of which hardware they have?

[DarthZoolu]

Thanks Sony cross play is the worst!!!

[SpineSaw]

Developers and Publishers need to offer up true CrossPlay by putting all Platform Disks in 1 case or if Digital then one purchase and your unlocked to play the game on whatever Platform you want..... That's true and complete CrossPlay.

[Orchard]

That is more cross-buy than cross-play. Cross-play is when you are on a PS playing multiplayer with Xbox users.

While it would be awesome to have one copy that plays everywhere, platform holders would never allow it and there are logistical issues since each platform has its own data formats, disk layout, printing mechanism, licensing model etc.

[SpineSaw]

Why do we assume Sony is in the wrong here? Sony is not the Publisher here and is it really that big of a deal...really? and if it is a Sony Issue then maybe unhappy gamers need to call out the Publisher and tell them to get inline with what Sony wants.

[Orchard]

1. Because it says it is a certification issue, Sony sets the certification requirements, not the publisher.

2. Why should developers/publishers have to get inline with 'what Sony wants' if what they want is the dev/pub PAYING for cross-play which is free on every other platform and has no reason to be a paid feature...

[SpineSaw]

Ok fair enough.... But if they failed certification then as I said..... The Game Dev needs to fall in line and if its as you say "free on every other platform and has no reason to be a paid feature" ... I'm sorry but this has absolutely nothing to do with Sony.

[Orchard]

“if its as you say "free on every other platform and has no reason to be a paid feature" ... I'm sorry but this has absolutely nothing to do with Sony”

I think you are misunderstanding what I’m saying - the one charging for this functionality is Sony and they are charging the developer. Not the developer charging the players or Sony charging the players.

So yes, if that is why they failed, the failure is on Sony’s part and they should align to the policy of the rest of the industry and make this both easy & free for developers.

[Flexiblefish74]

I think Sony was charging money to epic for cross play on fortnite, who knows might be the gearbox don't want to pay maybe that might be a reason.

[Smok91]

For the players

[RaiderNation]

Am I the only PlayStation owner who really couldn't care less about crossplay?

[Profchaos]

Well that sucks I've got it for ps5 just sitting there as thry promised cross play and my mate had it on PC I was waiting to play it but guess they got greedy

[Vokun13]

It cracks me up that when I read someone saying to enable crossplay and omit PS from it, that people downvote that to Hell or the reception is mixed. Umm yeah, enable it for the rest of us and if Sony really cares THAT much, they'll enable it as well. Why would you disagree with that?