Warzone #25 - Blu-Ray Does Not Make Games Look Better

Torrence Davis of The Bitbag writes, "On this episode we discuss what Blu-Ray really is, a storage medium. We talk about how many feel that graphics are better because of Blu-Ray when in fact graphics are better because of the hardware, not the medium that the data is stored on. Also on this episode:

- Hiphopgamer argues back and forth with a listener who says, "Home is a virtual doll house"
- Weapon X has some details on the PS4 possibly being released in 2010
- Torrence strikes back at some readers who accuse him of being a fanboy because of his response to the Kikizo interview with Square-Enix
- Digi Guys pull the plug on Hiphopgamer
- Torrence asks for more spawns and lights out on the Helgan red eye in Killzone 2
- and much much more! "

[Dimitri]

Who said it does ???
Blu-Ray is just a format.

Because it has up to 100GB of space, you can put uncompressed files on it, and fit a lot of "Crysis" sh1t on to the disc, and the game will look better. But Blu-Ray format does not automatically make the game look better lol.

[thor]

Again, even thinking that uncompressed files have better quality is a fallacy. There are plenty of lossless compression techniques that will not degrade the quality at all. Even a JPG at the higher quality settings is almost indistinguishable from the original with the human eye, especially if it's a texture in a game and not an image in its own right.

Furthermore, even if the extra space _did_ allow better graphics, then there is no reason you couldn't just use 4 DVDs and get the same graphics (albeit with the anoyance of swapping disks during a game).

On a plus note, the Helghast "glowing red eyes" thing has apparently been fixed in MP! Hurrah! Though one has to wonder, in the KZ2 universe, what moron decided to give the Helghast glowing red eyes in a battle situation? It's a real disadvantage!

[mikeslemonade]

Blu-ray does make a game look better and it depends on whether the developer takes advantage of it. Umcompressed textures look better than compressed textures. The problem not may developers take advantage of the space.

[Blakzhuk]

@Mikeslemonade - "Blu-ray does make a game look better and it depends on whether the developer takes advantage of it. Umcompressed textures look better than compressed textures. The problem not may developers take advantage of the space."

Nope. Has nothing to do with Blu-Ray. You can have uncompressed textures on a DVD9. I hear what Torrence is saying. If Sony went with DVD9 the PS3 would probably be $125 cheaper and more systems would have sold.

[thor]

"Uncompressed textures look better than compressed textures"

Do you know how wrong that statement is? If I take a LOSSLESSLY compressed texture, it is, once decompressed by the hardware, bit-for-bit IDENTICAL with the uncompressed texture. Furthermore, textures are almost ALWAYS compressed when they are on the GPU ANYWAY so as to save memory for other things the GPU needs to render the scene.

Many textures which are compressed using the latest algorithms to a high quality are practically indistinguishable. It's certainly a lot less noticable than ANYTHING else to do with graphics e.g. particle effects, number of polys, actual texture resolution so that if you were to store all the textures for a game uncompressed it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the graphics.

[JBaby343]

There are plenty of good compression techniques that produce excellent image quality. I thought the point of blu-ray meant putting uncompressed data because it always takes system resources to decompress the data on the fly. If they are already uncompressed on the disk that means more available system capacity to do other things. In theory of course. This SHOULD result in better performance for graphics, physics, and the like. But again that's just the theory but it makes sense since everything must be decompressed for use.

[arika]

bluray doesn't make a game look better it's the game developer that is responsible for that. bigger space means you can do a lot more, but if the developers are lazy then it won't be anything special.( just like most EA games)

[ultimolu]

No one has ever said Bluray makes games look better. Bluray, however gives the PS3 more space so developers can work around with it.

[mikeslemonade]

You can't fit as much uncompressed textures on the DVD. And when you say multiple DVDs Microsoft doesn't allow that without charging money. The developer from Rage(John Carmack) says that they would be charged too much money in order to do that. The only reason why LO and BD got multiple discs is because they are 1st party and Microsoft payed for the entirety of those games. Rage is 3rd party they don't get the advantage.

It's only the end of the 2nd year of the PS3 and we will see the advantage of blu-ray in later years. Convenience is an advantage. If it looks 1% better i'd call it advantage. A minimal advantage but still an advantage.

[sloth4urluv]

Yeah using uncompressed textures and audio save processing time, but loading them from optical storage is slow.

Its often quicker to load a compressed file to RAM, then uncompress it because the access time between the CPU and RAM is way faster than a optical drive.

Compressed textures in alot of cases are actually better. Most compressed textures are actually in .dds format which GPUs are actually designed to decode, which allows you to fit a higher resolution texture in the same amount of RAM as a lower resolution uncompressed texture.

[SPECTRUX]

of course it doesnt make games look better. it just allows devs to fit more things on the disc for a better game

[tetsuhana]

It has nothing to do with compression, It's about quality. A dvd's video quality can be about 8mbps at 2hours and 4.3GB. You can convert it to divx with the EXACT same bitrate and it will have a smaller size. But at the end of the day, the bitrate is determined by the media. If you wanted 16mbps video you could put it on a dvd but you'll get stuck with 45 minutes of video. A bigger media size means more/higher quality Content on the disc.
-THE END

[Aclay]

Blu-ray may not make for better graphics, but obviously a developer can do more with Blu-ray and the quality can be controlled on just one disc.

The Playstation 3 being the more powerful system in combination with Blu-ray is probably what leads to PS3 exclusives still progressing forward when it comes to graphics.

If ALL developers were utilizing the PS3 and Blu-ray like Guerrilla, Digi-Guys, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Polyphony Digital, and other Sony 1st party developers I think that the majority of all 3rd party games would always look better on the PS3.

[SuperM]

Guys, its not like you can only compress on a dvd. blu-ray and dvd are both just storage discs and both can have compressed data on them. its just that blu-ray can have more then 5 times the data, nomather how you twist it. Now while im sure you can compress stuff without it affecting the quality, there is still a limit to how much you can compress. And when you dont have more then about 7gb of storage then many devs certainly will have issues fitting all their content without compromising either the quality or the size of the game. But this is not something people will notice, because the games are made to fit the 360 hardware so its more of a speculation of what could have been.

Its kinda like this though. If you make a huge game then the graphics are going to take a hit if you are to fit it on 7gb. If you make much smaller scale game then the graphics will not be affected by the storage. So blu ray in itself doesnt give better graphics, but it allows bigger games with more content/scale etc to maintain a higher graphical level.

[Danja]

No one said that Blu Ray would make a game look better...that up to the devs , Blu Ray gives the devs more freedom when making a game...without having to worry about disk space most times...

[ape007]

you can fill those 50 gb with gaming heaven

of course,it's much better than filling 8 gb

man,fanboys are out of this world

of course,it doesn't automatically makes game look better

BUT

it have chance to fill it up with textures,so games will look better

fanboys,blu-ray is the future,weather you like it or not,it's fact,there's no way you can spin things up,nuff said

[Elimin8]

It does make it look better.. The fact that you can fill that much space with uncompressed data.....

[gaffyh]

Blu-Ray doesn't make a game look better, that depends on the developer and the power of the console. Blu-Ray just has enough space available to put on HD textures, HD audio, High poly models and they don't need to be compressed.

Obviously if a game isn't exclusive for PS3 = no time = it can't be optimised for the Blu-Ray = installs (MGS4 also included in this, but I'd say that was done so that the game wasn't delayed).

[DaTruth]

I can't even watch Matroska on my computer cause it uses too much system resources and I can't do a thing while decompressing rar files. Uncompressed textures can be streamed and frees up the processor and GPU for other tasks. That is what makes it have better graphics and more can happen on screen like we've noticed with PS3 games like R2, Lair and Heavenly sword. Most of the problem with PS3 multiplats is that they compress where there is no need on a system that's not designed for it and is actually designed to not have it.

[Xi]

Are done from the RAM as texture streaming is not done off of the disc. If textures are uncompressed it would actually severly lag the scene, and you'd have a lot of white primatives everywhere.

the advantages of blue-ray are:
More video streaming (ie if a game uses some movies like in the darkness)

more audio, or better audio, as in gta4 and mgs4.

And larger games, however this last point is very subjective as most games are dependant on time and cost constraints and not size.

All other preformance related issues are only myths.

[kindi_boy]

the only think blue ray does for me is make me watch blue ray movies PERIOD!

what a developer can do with 1 blue-ray disk they also can do it with 1-99999 DVDs no BODY cares -except you dear fanboys-.

P.S. by dear i mean something else.

[barom]

John Carmack seem to think otherwise. http://www.shacknews.com/on...

" id's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote. "

People should get their facts straight before stating their speculations as one.

[jtucker78]

Blu ray is a storage medium BUT don't forget it has a 36 Mbit/s data transfer rate. DVD is only 10.5 Mbit/s
That means you can stream a lot more data off the disc and hence gives the opportunity of better graphics.

Obviously this doesn't make much difference for the two HD consoles because PS3 has a 2x read blu ray drive (72 Mbit/s) whereas 360 is 12x DVD (126.60 Mbit/s)
Then you have to factor in that blu ray is constant speed whereas DVD reads slower the further from the centre you get.
Blu ray reading at a constant speed is actually really useful for reading textures and you don't have to put all the common assets near the centre of the disc for the fastest speeds.

So to cut a long story short.
1x blu ray data transfer is better than 1x DVD data transfer and therefore would be capable of better graphics.
Blu ray > DVD.

BUT because the 360 has a 12x read then data close to the centre it reads much faster than the 2x read speed of the PS3. But don't forget because of constant read speeds blu ray is excellent for procedural textures which are much smaller than compressed textures and frees up bandwidth for other assets - see Killzone 2.

@barom the reason the graphics will be worse in the 360 version of rage are because ID are running out of space on the DVD, not because it can't handle them. If rage were a smaller game or if it shipped with more disks then I'm sure John Carmack could get the games looking the same.
But then you have Guerilla doing some really clever things ie. using the constant read speed of blu ray to send procedural textures to the cell on the fly which frees up bandwidth and allows devs to put more assets put into lighting and other effects. So in the end the PS3 has the better graphics.
But that isn't because of blu rays capacity, it's because of the constant read speed coupled to the power of the cell. It's a really clever work around for the slower transfer rate, when you think about it. The 360 has a higher bandwidth, but is using it up with textures, then you have the PS3 with a slightly lower bandwidth off the disc, but it can use it much more economically.

In conclusion:
Blu ray helps produce better graphics, but not for the reason that all of you are arguing. i.e. capacity.
It's because of the constant read speed which feeds the cell texture procedures at a constant rate, this frees up the bandwidth for other assets. i.e. lighting, AI. In the end, that is how blu ray allows for better graphics in the PS3.
It is a combination of blu ray and the way the cell handles the data.
Look how small the Killzone 2 beta is. That is proof of what I'm saying. It's a quarter of the size of the Bioshock demo.
Bioshock is bloated with textures. Killzone is full of tiny procedures. Bioshock needs an install to be able to stream the textures fast enough. Killzone 2 renders the textures on the fly. 360 isn't capable of doing this because it only has a variable speed DVD. HDD isn't standard - so can't use that, and it doesn't have blu ray either. And then it doesn't have the power of cell for rending textures on the fly.
Blu ray improves graphics, but not by itself. It's only one element of the overall solution. Blu ray helps the process of improving graphics.

[cherrypie]

Mikeslemonade said:

"Blu-ray does make a game look better and it depends on whether the developer takes advantage of it."

And got +20 agrees, 5 disagrees.

Proof positive that N4G is a world-class collection of idiots.

jtucker78 said:

"Blu ray is a storage medium BUT don't forget it has a 36 Mbit/s data transfer rate. DVD is only 10.5 Mbit/s "

And yet we know that HD installs are because of BR lower through-put. Read this:

http://multiplayerblog.mtv....

Which says;
"While DVD drives can read data at those differing speeds, Blu-ray reads at one speed...When a publisher asks you to install a game on PS3, it’s because they’re moving some of the disc data to an area of your console that has much faster read access: the hard drive"

Because bluray is meant for random-access data, it is a movie-format.

[jtucker78]

cherrypie - Now read the rest of my post. The constant read speed is actually a very good thing.

Yes, PS3 reads slower than 360, but because of the constant read speed coupled with the cell you can use the bandwidth much more efficiently leaving plenty left over for other assets.

You really like to take information out of context don't you?

[JsonHenry]

What idiot thinks that the medium the game is printed on makes it looks better while playing?!

[bushfan]

Blue-Ray let you make BIGGER games....evertything else ask for a GPU!

[MAR-TYR-DOM]

the ps3 does.

BTW blu ray improves the overall quality of the game, from uncompressed audio to more storage which = bigger games. Blu Ray = Better for gaming than DVD

[kindi_boy]

and that's the sole reason why they installed a blu-ray drive in the PS3 because they want to PUSH the new format NOT because of gaming.

it improves the over all quality of MOVIES over DVD by ALOT hell without it people would never hear about DTS-HD or TrueHD sound and DVD can't do that because stopping a movie to replace a disk is not really popular but with gaming i stop whenever i feel like it so switching a dvd is not really a big deal.

are you still a blind fanboy?

[Monkey521]

Stop being so angry. The only person that sounds like a fanboy is you. All you are doing is trying to start a flame war. If these things annoy you, don't read them.

[kindi_boy]

now am a fan boy because am stating facts ?

and you are the all wise because you are trying to describe how i feel and left the facts in my post ?

so the issue here is me not the delusional disorder going around with sony boys trying to prove something out of air.

have a banana or something and leave logic to humans.

[XXXCouture]

have anybody ever said blu-ray makes a game look better? ofcourse it doesnt it just allows more content. what idiot claimed blu-ray makes stuff look better?

[swiftshot93]

Blu-ray has already been taken advantage of. Resistance was 16 GB. Uncharted demo alone couldn't fit on DVD. MGS4... this podcast is trying to bash blu-ray on ps3-its 2 years too late

its true they don't guarantee games looking better. But they will always have the potential to (better textures in Bioshock because of blu-ray). That potential has been realized with Killzone 2. The graphics are not possible without blu-ray. Guerilla said this themselves. there you have it...

Edit: @ thor

dont believe me, check out some of the reviews. And yes your right, its the space. Good thing Blu-ray=more space...

[tordavis]

"The graphics are not possible without blu-ray. "

If the graphics are not possible without Blu-Ray, then how come I'm playing this gorgeous beta on my PS3 without a Blu-Ray disc? The beta for KZ2 is 442mb. I could fit it on a CD or a 1gb thumb drive. KZ2 doesn't need Blu-Ray for the high quality graphics. Blu-Ray is a convenience just like DVD was when it was first introduced. It's the PS3's hardware that makes KZ2 so awesome.

[thor]

Better textures in Bioshock lol

But it's not the blu-ray that's making the graphics look better. The same graphics could be achieved on multiple DVDs, if the PS3 used DVDs for games. It'd just be a pain to swap disks every 2 hours in Killzone 2 :P

Edit @ Torrence:

Good point. If the KZ2 beta is so small, what do they really need all the extra space for in the full game? Though we do know that the full game will look better than the beta, especially the single player.

[swiftshot93]

true but your not playing KZ2. your playing KZ2 multiplayer beta. Therefor, not final graphics :P

[tordavis]

I'm only playing one of the best looking FPS games to date and it's just the beta. Are you from Guerilla? Did they dumb down the graphics for the beta? Sure as hell doesn't look like it.

[JBaby343]

I could be wrong but I don't think the MP levels are as large as the single player levels. Guerilla said each level was around 2GB. That's huge and I'm not sure how many SP levels in addition to all the MP levels. I think the actual game will need BD if not highly compressed.

[SuperM]

So i guess if KZ2 was a multiplayer only game, they it might actually fit on the 360... Seriously though the graphics in itself doesnt have anything to do with the amount of space. Its when you want the game to be large AND have good graphics.

Let me give you an example here. There are plenty of older games that fit on a cd that is much much bigger then games that can barely fit on a dvd9. Why? Well simply because the graphics, texture all that sh1t is worse/smaller in size. So my point is, at a certain point the amount of space will affect the graphics. The devs are probably right, KZ2 could not be done without blu-ray. Not because the graphics couldnt be done without blu-ray, but because you couldnt make the game as large and keep the same graphical level.

[Homicide]

PS4 in 2010? LOL! Not going to happen.

[percephone]

Killzone 2 from what i gathered will use 30-40G of space on the blue-ray.

[PimpHandHappy]

its not even about how great games look

and its not because of blueray

what blueray does allow is this

SIZE OF THE GAME
size is not just MAPS or online rooms

its all the little things

over time there will be a VERY long list of games that could not be done on anything other then a PS3! In 5 years it will all have become clear even to the most brainwashed fanboy

@ADD ON
hey davis
shove that up ur a$$
this is what i see and tell me if im wrong
Games that hold alot of info...like Mass Effect Fallout Fable...games like these. The suffer from frame rate issues and tons of bugs and loading issues.
Now im not a game maker but i would think that stuff all comes from compresion and lack of space. The more space the more room to improve on the little things! Graphics are now a small part of a good game! They only matter to the fanboys

[tordavis]

I agree. That day will one day come and it will all be attributed to the PS3 hardware, not the Blu-Ray.

[thor]

Blu-ray will allow bigger games for sure. But it will never enable better graphics than DVD does. The real difference blu-ray makes we will see in a couple of years down the road.

[SuperM]

Tordavis im sorry but you are dead wrong. If someone make a large openworld game that wont fit a dvd9 then it will be only possible on PS3 mainly due to blu-ray. Because you cant put an open world game on several discs. And you can only compress so much, i bet GTA barely fit on the dvd, because they complained about the storage. What if they made a GTA like San Andreas with 3 cities? That aint gonna fit a single disc, unless they cut on the graphics(see thats how blu-ray allows for better graphics). They could put it on 3 discs, 1 for each city, but thats not a good thing for an open world game. Say a game was 1 city at the size of 3 GTA cities. Then it couldnt be done nomather. So thinking that the day will never come that a game is only possible on ps3 because of blu-ray is kinda ignorant.

Games only get larger in size as time pass by. At a certain point games are going to have to be compressed to fit on a blu-ray. But hey i bet that will be no problem, just compress it some extra and it will fit on dvd9 right? Sometimes it feels like people actually believe that sh1t.

[Spike47]

I don't know how this came up in a discussion, I think it's because most of us know Blu ray is not nessecarily needed to make a good looking game so they thro this at PS3 fanboys knowing it is hardly debatable. LOL

[zapata2119]

blu ray makes games look better but it's a small piece in what makes the game actually look good. the graphics aren't because of blu ray but for hd you need blu ray (compared to dvd)

[tordavis]

For HD MOVIE playback you need Blu-Ray but I've heard you could play very small HD movies on a DVD9. You just need the right decoder.

[Why o why]

thats why transformers hddvd couldnt fit hd sound on the 15 gig disk. Surely if that blackhole compression existed they would of used it instead of releasing a half hd movie

[Elven6]

So much confusion, HD DVD is 30GB, get your facts straight. Secondly, HD is possible on regular DVD's, in fact the industry supported it until HD DVD/Blu Ray technology were released. WMV HD DVD, look into if you want, full length movies such as Terminator 2, Total Recall, etc.

[SuperM]

HD DVD dual layer is 30gb. single layer is 15gb

[Why o why]

thats why transformers hddvd couldnt fit hd sound on the '30' gig disk. Surely if that blackhole compression existed they would of used it instead of releasing a half hd movie;)

what was their reason?

[Elven6]

Why the hell are you disagreeing about and not giving a reason for? Those are all facts, damn fanboys!

SuperM: Yea but the above comment made it sound like it was 15GB in total.

[Magic_The_Celt]

Of coure not,

neither blu-ray or DVD have anything to do with how good it looks, Blu-Ray is simply superior because it can hold A-LOT more data.

[pp_]

True.

I'd like to see a DVD9 play MGS4 though! XD

The best game on a DVD9 is BioShock, and even that looks better on the PS3.

[Sir_Ken_Kutaragi]

I have not seen any xBox 360(i.e the Dreamcast 2)games look better than -
KillZone 2, MGS4, WipeOut:HD, Uncharted, LBP, MotorStorm 1+2;)

+I'd rather have Blu-ray than out-of-date DVD in my Next-gen Console ;-P Thanks SONY;)

[morganfell]

Actually Bluray does if you think about it. Yes it is data storage but that is one of the main reasons why the PS3 version of Rage will look better. And it won't just be Rage but every game running that engine as well. And that is THE new engine.

[Chaos In The Flesh]

The Bit Bag is the worst gaming site on the web and the Warzone podcast is a joke and a hot mess, Hip hop gamer is the only one well respected on that podcast.

[Kleptic]

Dear Bit Bag,

You're wrong...

love,

Killzone 2

Killzone 2 is the first game that i know of to stream in completely uncompressed textures, freeing up processing and ram because of it (as those textures would need to be uncompressed in real time off of a smaller media format)...no other game so far has done this completely...and this IS NOT done in the multiplayer beta for the game...

wait till Dec 4th...you'll see why about 50 different media previewers are making such a big deal out of this...

and this is wrong regardless of that...didn't Carmack say how BD was the major advantage of the PS3 over the 360 right now?...google the Rage issue from last summer...you'll see...

[Spike47]

If you go into HOME expecting a Sims game you will be dissapinted.
If you go into HOME wanting to socialize with your friends, hang out in a bowlong ally, invite them over to your space, and play LBP then you will be satisfied.

It is a place to meet new people and hanging out with friends. You get to learn more about them through looking at their space and their appearance.

It may feel like HOME doesn't have much to do at first, but it is FREE and acts as a place for an expanding community.

[sugard0]

Anyone remember the game Rage? Although Blu-ray doesnt allow the game to look better, it allows storage for textures etc. If Microsoft doesnt take the royalties off them having a 3rd DVD, some of the textures in the game on the 360 will be bland in comparison to on the PS3. So although it doesnt allow games to look better, it allows storage for what the game needs to produce such textures etc.

Hopefully someone can better explain this than me.

[DiabloRising]

BluRay is a format. Yes you can store more, but that doesn't equate to longer games or better graphics instantly. That comes from development time, money, and talent.

[Optimus_Prime]

Yes, that's why 98% of multiplatform games look better on 360.

[JBaby343]

But then most are developed on 360 first then ported to PS3. That plays a big part and games like Burnout and COD4 where that was not the case serve to affirm it. Also they weren't made to take advantage of blu-ray but rather of DVD so why would anyone think differently. Also and most important blu-ray is just a storage medium so directly affects nothing related to graphics although may have indirect effects if used properly.

[Handsome_Devil]

I was about to say the same thing JBaby343 said.

[JayD-1K]

understanding the tools and the hardware you're using!
the devs have a damn good handle on the tools and hardware used in the 360, so that's why the games will look better on the 360.

[Why o why]

98% of ps3 exclusives look better than the 360s

[Gaara_724]

who ever thinks blue ray has anything to do with how good a game looks is stupid hands down in the end its down to the develipor to make the game look good and blue ray has more data storage thats its only advantage for games people can argue but it does 1080p ect ect hi xbox has some 1080p games and thats using dvd's [so the point its up to a develipor to make games look good not a disk and anyone who thinks other wise is stupid

[TheColbertinator]

"Blu Ray does not make graphics better"

No,only with teh cell and 4D graphics can the PS3 defeat all at 120 FPS

Believe in teh cell!!!11!!!1!!11!

http://www.xbox360fanboy.co...

LMAO

[pp_]

You fail at everything. Go back to special school.

[dukadork]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
I accept your apologies
lol

[Spike47]

too bad that number is completely incorrect. Do some research and then come back with a fact not a made up number.

And by better games, if you mean slightly better detailed graphics on one system vs. the other than that doesn't count. Not every gamer or consumer is a fanboy paying attention to small unimportant details like that.

[Timesplitter14]

No one ever said that.

Blu-Ray just allows to put more stuff in the game without having to change discs.

[BRACHATTACK]

I wondered how long it would take for pp to create another account.

EDIT - Is this actually pp? Is he being sarcastic?

[trancefreak]

looks like an imposter (pp_) :)

[Danja]

he's an imposter....but i guess some ppl never heard the saying..

"Imitation is the best form of flattery'....

[Anti-PS3]

It goes both ways. Graphics look better b/c of the hardware and the storage medium. By having Blu-Ray, the PS3's Cell processor is allowed to perform graphical enhancements while not worrying about trying to uncompress data. So it does help both ways. That's why Sony made the system the way they did.

[Why o why]

its obvious that it cant make a graphical difference per say. Can it make games better? Yes IF used right. If anybody thinks ALL consoles wont have a bigger format next gen then they really have their heads in the sand.

[0verdrive]

completely agree with this. everyone this generation is saying that bd is completely unnecessary, but in actuality, it eventually will be. the xbox720 or whatever you wanna call it will have a bd drive, i guarentee it. everyones going to be using it next gen, so to argue that its a dying technology is stupid.

[DarkSniper]

In regards to Kikizo, while the interview basically states that the PLAYSTATION®3 version of Final Fantasy XIII will be the far more superior platform, he takes anything said on that site with a grain of salt. Dark Sniper still has a bitter taste with Kikizo confirming the development of Shenmue III, therefore they lost their credibility.

http://games.kikizo.com/new...

Dark Sniper can honestly say that Torrence Davis has finally saw the light of where true gaming can be found. When Dark Sniper listened to a previous Warzone podcast with Mr. Davis saying that Resistance 2 is the best shooter this year, it was then when Dark Sniper knew that Mr. Davis understood that only PLAYSTATION®3 can provide gamers such as Torrence Davis with AAA titles that bring gaming to the fourth dimension.

Tordavis, if you're reading, just know that Dark Sniper appreciates your newfound love and preference for PLAYSTATION®3. He looks forward enjoying some premiere and unparalleled online gaming through the PlayStation® Network at no charge.

Welcome to the future of gaming Torrence. PLAYSTATION®3.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

$niper

[trancefreak]

Kudos to your dedication Sniper

[TheColbertinator]

I remember reading that interview Dark Sniper.I hope to one day see a confirmation from Sega for Shenmue 3 with Yu Suzuki at the helm of the project

[OrganicMachine]

graphics are for aesthetics, the eye-catcher, the immersion-factor along with the sound.

gameplay comes down to how the designers design the gameplay, like designing options for the players to chose from..

what the blu-ray does is just providing a bigger box for the designers to put more creativity in it.

low-res pictures requires small amount of space
high-res pictures requires big amounts of space

compressions are used to reduce a picture's size and at the same time trying to maintain the picture's quality..

why am I using pictures as examples? Well, if you've done 3D modeling like me, High-res pictures gives high quality textures on 3D objects. Low-res textures will just be stretched too much it'll be pixelated.

Although Low-Res textures might look good from afar on a 3D object, zooming in on that object shows how bad low-Res textures are. That's why textures in games looks so good but zoom your scope on the ground and you see big pixels and washed out images. You don't see this things on high-Res textures.

Compressions are just ways to fool the player's eyes. Games with high-res textures looks so good and so detailed because of the high-res textures being used. but if you zoom in on the textures, you'll see some jagged lines and what not..but not as much as with a low-res textures.

same goes with sounds. .mp3, .wav, etc are some compressions used for those sounds. downgrading the quality enough that the player's won't notice a huge difference between the uncompressed file to the compressed one.

so, from what I know, Blu-Ray does play a part in giving games beautiful graphics (or sound) because it gives developers more space to use high-res images and high quality sound without downgrading the quality too much.

[Handsome_Devil]

Now that just made sense to me

[0verdrive]

fair argument, and im not disputing it at all

but i believe the guy on the show, who sounded like he knew what he was talking about, said that bluray has been more of a curse than a blessing, because they cannot get the disk to spin fast enough to read all of that information stored on the disk, and that is why games require mandatory installs. also it has been stated by a few people above that apparently its faster for a console to stream compressed data from the ram than to stream uncompressed data from a disk.

now i do not know how reliable either of these sources are, but this makes complete sense to me. im sure in the future, all of these problems will be figured out, and the true potential of bluray will be extracted, but in my opinion, bluray is still a fledgling technology, and it cannot be used to its full potential.

[DA_SHREDDER]

Korn is the sh*t! Nice intro Torrence.

[OrganicMachine]

falling away from me...

*guitar riffs!!!*

yea.. I use to love korn..

[Tykis]

Ummm actually it does u dont really have to compress anything so thats kind of a bull argument!

[ApocalypseShadow]

bluray allows MORE content.be it:

uncompressed audio.
uncompressed video.

it allows bigger sandbox worlds with more objects onscreen streamed directly from the disc.

take for example,360 fans say,"what about GTA4?""it fits on a dvd9."

yup.sure did.can't deny it.but being that a ps3 disc at 50gig(mgs4) is about 5 times bigger than dvd,

HOW MANY CITIES COULD ROCKSTAR HAVE PUT ON THAT ONE BLURAY DISC?COMPARED TO MAKING BOTH VERSIONS THE SAME ON EACH SYSTEM?

one system won't allow such a game to exist.you could have had five times the area than what we all played in gta4.don't say i'm wrong.you know i'm right.if it was exclusive to ps3,that game would have been bigger.the TIME and MONEY it took to make the 360 version,could have been used to make a BIGGER ps3 exclusive.

that's the truth.and you don't like it.that's why bubbles are taken.i speak the truth.it's just hard for you to swallow.but that's okay,i have a HOME.

as for sound,dvd couldn't hold transformers in HD.hd-dvd couldn't fit all the high end audio on the disc.that's fact.bluray transformers is the best and complete audio and visual experience without cutting corners.THAT'S FACT.

what about better looking?well GT5 says hello.the cars are second to none.no racing game i have seen on 360 has come close to matching its quality.we have seen 360 fans hope the next racing game can come close,but they never do.pgr3,pgr4,forza2,gtr,grid,. ...they keep coming but come up short each time.

i'm not saying they aren't fun.they are just not better looking.but davis is right.sony pulled off gt5 as a download.but then sony ALLOWS BIGGER DOWNLOADS.while microsoft does not.maybe now with NXE.but even then,it still won't be what we see what sony is doing with gt5,wipeout,etc.1080p at 60fps downloads from microsoft?not where i'm sitting.

but bluray itself allows more.will we get more?who knows.but at least it's there to use.

apocalypse.................

[ReBurn]

That's a long rant.

One thing to keep in mind about Blu-Ray. Sure it allows developers to put more content on a disc, but developers aren't doing it because of how much it costs to create all of that content.

[cheapndirty]

That has Dolby True HD on the HD DVD. That's high res audio. Also known as lossless. www.avsforums.com.

I just bought the Blu ray version today. PCM or True HD is lossless audio.

FYI

[Why o why]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2...

the complete package is not in HD

[smurfie4]

You can store more textures because of the extra space. The higher the res of the textures the more space it takes up thus making blue-ray relevant to how a game looks.

[Why o why]

dvd<9 too small for a baseball game. a friken baseball game. BluRay/any larger media is natural/technological progression. Why move from cd? why move from normal dvd to dvd 9 if ALL you needed to do was use this black hole compression that some speak off? Compressed data takes space. Why is this even being questioned.

[BuckyBarnes]

While it might not make games look better, i sleep safer knowing my $60 game investment wont scratch and become unplayable due to me sneezing on it.

[Yellowstar]

And it is not as good as anything made by an Asian, it is far superior to that jigaboo's gaming site videos!

[Raoh]

Ask kojima how he used the blu ray.

many people have a map that is just one room repeating over and over with furniture moved around.

mgs4 actually had a huge map that gave the player tons of options as far as paths to go. not linear in paths to take and each path completely different from the other.

another option with blu ray is using the extra space to paste smaller maps/portions of maps over and over throughout the disc to reduce load times.

when games are identical on boht the 360 and ps3 there are still some differences. in smaller worlds the 360 has less jaggies on the screen than the ps3. cant' explain this one, i would assume its lack of knowledge.

in larger worlds the ps3 has less pop ins and less frame rate drops when there are a lot of enemies on the screen. this one i can explain a bit.

Blu-ray also has a higher data transfer rate -- 36 Mbps (megabits per second) -- than today's DVDs, which transfer at 10 Mbps. A Blu-ray disc can record 25 GB of material in just over an hour and a half.

here is a "how blu ray works" for those that doubt the transfer rates
http://electronics.howstuff...

and somewhere there is an interview with kojima explaining how he was able to expand maps that never repeated each other.

[Firstkn1ghT]

Ask Kojima??? Well that's easy he would of said all the endless movies he added. Definitely wasn't the gameplay.

[strotee]

"endless movies"

*sigh* Did it ever occur to you that he was trying to tell a story, in HIS vision, not a "oh sh!t, I only have 7 GB to work with" sort of story? The extra space allowed him to tell it in surround sound with no or little compression. You'll appreciate a good story when you graduate from junior high.

[Raoh]

hey first knight aside from the story.

like i said before you can take differnt paths. one is more involved with shooting. one is more behind the scenes going undetected. when i say you can go any which way you want i mean any which way you want. at no point to you go to one section of the map and it looks like the other maps.

that's just in one location/city. the next location same scale but completely different map. not a repeat of a room with furniture or doors moved around to make believe you are in another map.

and yes the fact that he was able to add so much story is a big plus.

[Man_of_the_year]

YOU mean same linear path - different way of playing each level.

[nycredude]

I don't think anyone thinks that it actually makes the game look better, but I am sure that it helps alot. Killzone 2 is a perfect example of it in action.

[Why o why]

will find any reason to make those that have got to feel like what they do have is not actually needed OR useful. This is MS's way and its some 360 guys way. rumble, achievements(sony) hdmi, larger media, 1080p, bluetooth, motion control, wi fi (the 360 is the ONLY console including handhelds that comes without it) (MS)

[Homicide]

They just want hits people. Every website does it from time to time.

[JackBNimble]

Since when did anyone think that blu-ray has anything to do with graphics?
I'm pritty sure "SCE" never tried to mislead people into believing that either.50 Gigs of info on blu-ray disc though who can go wrong with that?

[Bathyj]

I'll repeat what everyone else has already said so you know I agree.

No one EVER said Blu Ray makes graphics better. Thats like saying Ferrari makes you a better drive or some other such nonsense.

The point of BR is this,
we have seen it well utilised already, with games of unmatched quality in their genres. I'm talking about, MGS4, Uncharted, LBP and even Heavanly Sword, Resistance, Motorstorm with many more coming.
But still the full potential of BR is not even close. People always say you can just change disk. Mostly this is true. All the art assets would be on the corrosponding disk and the game engine itself would have to be repeated on each disk. But what happens if someone makes an incredible, the likes of which we haven't seen yet? Say a GTA size world but bigger. No loading from place to place. A persistant world. If you crash a shop front and drive back the next day you will see trademen fixing it, or it will stay broken.

What I'm saying is, what if someone made an engine that was so good it was 6 or 7 GB by itselfor even bigger? There would no room left on a DVD for the assets or AI routines or anything else. You couldn't repeat the engine on multipule disk because you would be getting so little else on it. Thats why BR has more potential foramazing games and that why DVD is holding back this generation. As long as most game are going multi, no one is going to make a game like this.

Maybe I'm ahead of myself and a game like that is light years away but we have to progress or we'll never get there. We all know GTA could have been so much more if BR and HDD's had been in every machine is was coming to. And I think John Carmack would have gone all outon the PC and PS3 versions of Rage if it hadn't been for XB too. Yes I know PC is DVD but it doesn't really follow the same rules and no games yet are developed with a install for XB in mind.

BR (more space) is the only way progression will be made. There are those that say its not needed. They also say we dont need BR movies. They right we done have to have them, we just want the best we can get. Should it not exist because some aren't ready yet. Or should the technology be released and progess itself, so that but the time more people do want it, there will be 8 speed BR drives with 100Gb disk. Theres an old saying, "If you wanted it now, you should have ordered it 2 weeks ago).

[Firstkn1ghT]

"with games of unmatched quality in their genres. I'm talking about, MGS4, Uncharted, LBP and even Heavanly Sword, Resistance, Motorstorm with many more coming."

LMAO!

Anyway, GTA4 was already big enough. Let's just say they made it exclusive for the ps3 and utilized the bluray and made the maps maybe twice bigger that would of been way to much. And it would probably take twice as long to release and cost twice as much to develop. More doesn't always mean better.

[Bathyj]

Maybe is wouldn't just mean bigger maps. Maybe it would mean more traffic, better AI, having more building open, destructable environments, more weapons, planes, jetpack or any of the other things they left out of GTASA. As usual you miss the whole point. It would be up to the dev to make good use of it how they saw fit, and thank god, they have more imagination than you.

And why are you laughing at my games list. Do you have any game in any of those genres that better them? NO.

More doesn't always mean better but it can be and less is usually worse. Of course you would say that but, when your best game is a 5 on 5 lagfest.

And tell me this. Will the next XB has a bigger storage medium or stick with DVD. If so why would next gen be the time to upgrade not this gen? The move to HD graphic is what made in neccesary. If DVD is good enough for M$ now then it should be good enough for them next time unless they are goin to go to 2160p or something. But TV wont be up to that level yet so 1080p will be the top resolution for a while yet thats widely used. But no, M$ wont have DVD next time, They wouldn't have it now if they could reverse time or get a bigger disk into it without pissing off 20M users. Why dont you just admit BR is a good idea and the only diadvantage is the cost which goes down everyday. Never up, always down.

[strotee]

"More doesn't always mean better."

While true, but you'd sound like a retard saying "this game rocks cuz the single player mode is 2.5 hours long". In this day & age, that's an embarrassment.

If it helps you sleep at night, don't think of a Blu-ray as just a Blu-ray, think of it like a DVD.....on a lot of steroids. lol

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

Everything in the PS3 compliments each other. Thinking BluRay doesn't contribute to anything is normal. You might say, "How can a bigger storage medium provide instant improvement?" The answer of course is it cannot provide *instant* improvement. It takes a lot of hard work and understanding.

Sony knows the benefits of an increased storage medium, their success in the video game industry is largely based on this idea. If you remember, Sony bailed on Nintendo because the big N didn't want to use CD's, they didn't see the point. Sony would later create their own game system, the PS1. Games on the N64 and PS1 were pretty equal at the start, later we would see bigger and better games on the PS1, that couldn't be done on the N64, mainly due to the N64s limitations with cartridges. Sony would later dd the same with the PS2, and with the PS3. If their going to put out a new console, they have sense enough to move forward in every way possible.

The gist of it is, BluRay is just one integral part in the PS3's hardware prowess equation. The other more important exponents are the Cell and Rambus XDR memory, both capable of streaming large amounts of data, it only makes sense to provide these components with larger source data from the storage medium.

Because the PS3 is still in its infancy, the benefits we see from this design hasn't been tapped into fully... yet. Mainly due to the fact most developers want to make money, and would rather spend time making their games work on the PS3 and 360. Like someone else said a few comments above, tapping the PS3's full potential, using all components to their fullest takes money, hard work, and a really talented team.

BluRay may not improve graphics instantly, but its an important design choice just like the Cell and XDR.

[baum]

Such question doesn't deserve an answer as simple as "Yes" or "No". For games that are relatively small, of course not. Take the Killzone demo, for example. That doesn't need much storage space. However, take games like GTA and such... they don't look as good because clearly, and as developers said before, the space they needed wasn't there and corners had to be cut.

I see morons here throwing around the concept of "lossless compression" as if they knew something about it. First of all, what makes you think everything can be compressed? Second, what makes you think everything can be compressed "losslessly"? And third, even if it was possible, what makes you think there are no trade-offs for that? The fact that you guys think there are no trade-offs clearly shows you know nothing about it.

"Lossless" compression implies that there is no information lost. And of course, there isn't, the way the information is stored is an algorithm rather than raw physical data. For example, instead of storing "111111111111111111111111 1111111111111111111111111111111 11111", which is 60 zeroes, I would store "1x60", meaning 60 times 1. I only used one 15th of the space needed to store the raw data for the number.

However, the trade-off for storing data represented by algorithms (assuming there is even an algorithm for every kind of data and that every algorithm is just as efficient); however, I need an interpreter for the data, a program that tells me what that code means. And that program takes valuable processing time off the hardware, processing time that could be used for other tasks such as making the game look better.

So as you can see, even if some data can be compressed losslessly, it should only be used if there is no option. Blu-ray gives you the option to use the valuable processing time *elsewhere*, be it for graphics, AI, physics, or whatever. It gives you choice, and that might just be part of the reason why PS3 exclusives crap on most 360 exclusives and surpass Gears of War.

That's also part of the reason why 360 multiplatform games sometimes edge out PS3 games since, aside of the fact that multiplatform games rarely if ever use the SPEs and optimize code for the RSX or code the game for PS3's convoluted RAM setup, they do not need any blu-ray space since they're done with the 360 in mind and therefore use little if any compression. That's also why some multiplatform Gamecube games looked worse on it than on PS2, since they had to heavily use compression because the games were made with Xbox and PS2's DVD9 in mind. Poor gamecube had to deal with compression even when it was more powerful than PS2.

Blu-ray gives developers choice and it could enhance graphics of games, not directly, but indirectly by taking the load off the processor by not making it decompress files.

[D-Throne]

Great show! Keep it up guys!

[divideby0]

ask ANY game developer if they would like BR for their games...guess what the over whelming response will be Heck ya..

[Enigma_2099]

Yeah... thanks for clearing that up... now what you need to do is tell the devs to try doing something with the extra storage space...

[MediaSpin360]

It made Sonys Blu Ray decision 100% worth it.

Also Blu Ray can make the game look better when thinking of compression vs non but that only happend on 1 game i think.. But it did happen

[DFresh]

-It is true that the disc space of Blu-ray does not make for better games on PS3 or any platform but makes more better sound quality then a DVD.
DVD can be played on a 5.1 system while Blu-ray can be used on a 7.1 system.
In my opinion sound makes 50% of any game this gen.
Having one Blu-ray is better can switching between several DVD discs.
Also though DVDs can play in 1080P like Blu-ray but it's upscaled and not native like on PS3.

-I never really cared for any Square Enix games so I don't care FFXIII went multiplatform but I know the PS3 Version won't get downgraded cuz of the 360's disc space.
The reason being it's being developed on PS3 first.

-PS4 in 2010 is very unlikely.
The way this gen is going I doubt will see any new consoles for another 6 years.
Microsoft will continue to support the 360.
Sony will continue to support the PS3 and possibly the PS2.
Nintendo well there selling a lot of consoles so there's no real reason for them to make another console when in reality they're making stupid amounts of money.
I don't expect to hear about any new consoles until at least 2012-2013.

-I do agree those spawn points and the Helghan Red Eyes need to be fixed and upgraded but after seeing what Guerilla is doing it'll be fixed.

Other then that great War Zone can't wait for the next War Zone #26 next time.

[LethalToxins]

Bringing up lossless compression is really kind of pointless as it is actually never used in practice.

http://computervision.wikia...

[Lord Vader]

More disc space is good for developers though...

=)

But the PS3 architecture, Sony third party support & development tools... well...

=(

[OMGLOLZ]

That the COG Team in Gears has glowing blue ALL over them and nobody complains, but since KZ2 is so awesome, the only thing they can complain about it the mild glowing red eyes.

That's a good sign, IMO.

[gauntletpython]

Hypothetically speaking, you could eventually have textures that take up 9+GB of space, which then COULDN'T be done without compression no matter how many DVDs you have... But again, that's hypothetically, and won't even come into play with PS3 VS 360.

[Ziggazee]

YES IT DOES SO SHUT DA FOK UP! lol ok maybe not so much graphically but a whole lot more can be done on a single blu ray as opposed to a single dvd.. Because of the amount of space on a blu ray it can make games better in terms of more levels, characters, cars ect can be put on it.

[GIJeff]

more space = more room for detail, more detail = better graphics and sound. So yes, blu-ray DOES make games prettier. Just look at MGS4. Sheesh. if you want high resolution content in your game, (sharper, more detailed textures, models, etc.), you needs lots of space. The ps3 is THE ONLY true HD console in games and movies. The graphics are capable of being HD quality, not just output at HD resolutions. A$$ looks like A$$ even in 1080p. DVD is SOOOOOO 10 years ago.

[mauradin]

nooooo wtf is happening here?!

[mauradin]

nooo, WTF is happening here, What about the 5 years rule!?

[Eric1970]

it comes down to how a developer leverages it. Let's see, I can produce a game on CD, DVD or Blu-Ray adn which would look better? Jesus, some of the stuff on here is such a waste of a read. Why I continue to do this to myself!!!

[Surfman]

No it cant, but it can makes games alot bigger and baddass.

[Kush_Reaper]

Look! blu ray in some cases improve graphics and in others doesn't, this all comes down to how lazy or cheap a developer is. But it is fact that blu ray allows for much bigger uncompressed audio files and textures. Also more content can be added to blu ray if developers utalise the disk space, in this case there would not be a need for all this DLC bullsh!t that has been introdused this gen(thank you lazy devs for taking the lowest denominator route which is dvd9 and developing first on the 360. Makes me think that they would rather settle for less than improve their games).

A very important and proven fact about blu ray allowing for more environments and such is the recent RAGE stories. Apparantly due to them developing on the 360 first, 3-4 possible levels have ben cut because of lack of storage of the dvd9(think blu ray isn't needed again?). It's obvious that if development was done on the PS3 and utalised the blu ray space they would not have had to cut those levels out.

Because they have a horny spot for M$ they ended up gimping the game to please you aroggant blind bats. I blame M$ and anyone who supports them for all these DLC bull. When open world games like GTA4 are ridiculously shorten or bottle necked it is because of dvd9 and games like WKC and many future PS3 exclusives to come will prove that this gen is all about blu ray and it's available space. Please se the light here.

OBAMA!!!

[jmcorp]

don't worry, right now developers are still gimping games by putting them on the 360, but you do realise that the PS3 is only 2 years old?

when the PS2 was just 2 years old, do you think it had reached its full potential? do you think Devs would stick to just developing for the PS2? of course not, consoles that are new and yet to show their true potential will always have Devs developing for the other less powerful console in this case the X360...

soon be rest assured that developers will focus their entirety on the PS3, its simply the more powerful console, as we speak the 360 is already maxed to it's full potential, while apparently Sony's PS3 isn't, so in a few years you will see more PS3 exclusives that yet again wont be possible on the xbox 360.

you should even be very happy, seeing as games like killzone 2, heavy rain and God of War 3 are coming to the PS3 at such an early time in its life cycle, just image the exclusive beasts that will be rolling out on PS3, say 5 years into its life time...

[Kush_Reaper]

I totally agree with you. I'm glad someone else feels the same way as i do. This gen will be very interesting especially when the inevitable price cuts come for the ps3, they will fly off the shelves and games like killzone 2,GT5 and GOW3 will play a mjor role in the ps3's success.

OBAMA!!!

[Neo604]

If BR format is not the best then they should name something on the market that is. Try to put Gear of War2 on floppy DISKSSSSSSSSSSSSS.... and see if it looks as good as DVD.

[Neo604]

they should put thier games on FLOPPY DISKSSSSSS.

[lelik]

blu ray is over 5 times bigger than a dvd9. cds are about 5 times smaller then dvds, why did we ever start using dvds?

arguments about blu ray are all stupid. stop crying it aint going nowhere, the only format that can phase out blu ray will come in 200gb form. i doubt you will see it anytime soon.

[pixelsword]

1. Blu-Ray does not DIRECTLY make games look better
A. Blu-Ray can hold MUCH more LOSSLESS images than DVD Can
B. More LOSSLESS images allows a game to look better

2. Blu-Ray with more space Allows a game to be bigger.
A. More space means more thing can go inside of a game.
B. More space also means that the bigger game can have more high-Res images.

3. Blu-Ray INDIRECTLY makes games look better, and directly makes games bigger
A. More space means more space for uncompressed images
B. More space means more space for everything else.

- Few people in the past took advantage of it
- More people in the present are taking advantage of it
- Once code optimization is mastered on the PS3, you will get games like Killzone, which is less than one or two years down the road.

[mastiffchild]

More pointless dross from HHG and it's cack podcast making arguments where there aren't any. Well done again. Most pointless ehtity in the entire world. Do not like.

[LFC1EE]

It baffles me how alot of so called fanboys sit down most of the day

argueing who's console is better, if they clearly like there consoles

that much why aren't they sitting in there gamer chairs playing there

fav games on there fav consoles, instead of being on this site argueing

over who's console is better, i'm not on about the majority but the

minority, theres debating and theres downright argumentive and

jealous, debating is always the best option.

[jmcorp]

Who thought that the Blu-ray directly improves a games graphics???

Sure it gives developers a bigger space to make the game with, and maybe allow them to use uncompressed textures, and I guess the uncompressed textures will look better than those which are compressed but this is not always the case, so indirectly Blur-ray does improve a games graphics, because it allows for higher-resolution textures just like PC games do.

the true power of the blu-ray allows for a better gameplay experience overall, allowing much bigger gameplay maps, more cutscenes, better sound quality and clarity, more players online, I could go on and on...of course i am not saying that blu-ray does all this on its own, i know that these things require the processor and GPU to get going, but we cannot undermine with the larger space offers to developers..

[Vip3r]

Who said it does? I think the fanboys are putting words in other peoples' mouths.

[DaTruth]

Just say, we had graphics 10 times as good as we have today; Does anyone here believe it would fit on a DVD? I thought so. Obviously, Bluray alone doesn't give good graphics but it certainly helps.
My logic is undeniable! Seriously, are games any longer than they use to be? But they're certainly bigger and we all know it's the HD graphics. Any problems fitting Wii games on a DVD? More space =/= better graphics, better graphics need more space.

[Sergeant Osiris]

has turned this into one of the most drawn out, dirty and biggest disinformation wars to ever hit the internet. They make THE SAME MISTAKES every other competitor who has come up against Sony has.

bigger storage medium? check

better first party lineup? check

best quality hardware? check

if anything all these xbots should be thanking Sony for taking their time lowering the price of the PS3 and not annihilating the inferior 360 in record time. 360 is at more of a disadvantage than even Sega and Nintendo were is previous generations in that they were REAL gaming companies with console experience.

Nope, at the end of the day M$ is just that retarded rich kid who doesn't know when to quit after getting owned all day long.

[Oner]

That is exactly it disinformation & misinformation. I just can't understand how people can ACTUALLY beleive some of the absolute BS that is said.

You hit the nail right on the head with those comments. Here are a couple others added in that support your point...

bigger storage medium? check

better first party lineup? check

best quality hardware? check

better included/standard capabilities? check

better graphical capabilities? check

better game diversity/choices? check

better "future proofing"? check

better overall value for everything you get? check

[NickIni]

PS4 in 2010? Get real. The PS3 is really starting to pick up, by the end of next year, it will be even better. Why on earth release a console when the current one is doing well? Maybe the next gen Microsoft/Ninty consoles in 2010, but even that's unlikely. 2011 is the earlier the first next generation console will be released imo, more likely 2012.

[djroberts]

Developers store larger, better looking textures when they have more space.

[JD_Shadow]

That's probably the main reason why all the argument this show makes can fail (not saying they do, but it's the main reason why it could). Right now, the Blu-Ray format is the only format right now that can display content in a native resolution of 1080p (the best resolution avaliable), which alot of gamers are looking for. The 360 must upscale a DVD9 to get that resolution.

Oh, and no one else defended Heavenly Sword? Uh *raises hand* some other people did. I've also went and said that Folklore is a damn good game. Burnout Paradise's PS3 version is also really good.

And I think those comments were saying to you that you shouldn't exactly just believe what SE is saying because they've said things before and then went and did the exact opposite of what they said they would do. That's what I think the issue was: You were so ready to believe them when they've done this kind of thing before. If you're going to believe them, you might want to make sure that SE doesn't go back on their word this time. If they do and they do delay and gimp the PS3 version (by chance), you'll be the one putting your foot in your mouth because you believed them so easily.

But I hope your right that we can believe them on this whole thing about FF13 not suffering on the PS3 because of the multiplatform business, because that means that SE has actually kept to their word this time.

[tordavis]

Trust me, if Square doesn't make the release date or either version suffers in quality, I'll have something to say about it.

BTW, there are a couple native 1080p 360 games. It has nothing to do with Blu-Ray and everything to do with the graphics power of each system.

My end all to this argument is that you can always throw more discs at the 360 so you don't have to use lower res textures. More space = good but Blu-ray isn't the only way to get more space.

[JD_Shadow]

>> Trust me, if Square doesn't make the release date or either version suffers in quality, I'll have something to say about it. <<

You and me both, although it will be interesting to see who's going to be the blunter of the two and who will have more words to say (I'll be the latter for sure because me being the Keith Olbermann of the gaming media right now, I'm pretty sure I got the mouth to do that).

>> BTW, there are a couple native 1080p 360 games. It has nothing to do with Blu-Ray and everything to do with the graphics power of each system. <<

Wondering which ones they are, because I'm not knowledgeable to those (not to discredit, I seriously am curious).

>> My end all to this argument is that you can always throw more discs at the 360 so you don't have to use lower res textures. More space = good but Blu-ray isn't the only way to get more space. <<

It's a combination of the two things, I think. You're right in devs needing to harness the power of both the processors and the physical media avaliable to them. My only deal with your whole thing was telling people they had to shut up about it, and that is just something I would get on my best friends about, even, if they went that route, since I feel so strongly about the first amendment.

Hold on...me and Torrence...agreeing on something...

...can SOMEONE PLEASE check the forecast for Hell to see if there was snow there today?

[tordavis]

There's so much to talk about in the game industry that it's not hard to find things to agree on. :)

[donnie-2105]

when you download divx torrent files and convert to dvd the more minutes the film is the poorer quality the picture is, pixalisation and such.less space worse picture whether talking about games or movies.

[Amplitude]

i dont give a crap about graphics. I personally love the uncompressed 7.1 PCM audio coming out of my 7.1 Onkyo 605. Something that simply CANT be done with the 360s hardware - or disc format.

And as people have said, Motorstor, uncharted, killzone 2, MGS4, etc... nothing on the 360 looks that good.
Did i read your article? hell no. Cause im sure its un-informed FUD that doesnt deserve any network traffic. Thanks.

[lelik]

i didnt think the ps3 supported 7.1 audio, but im not sure.