PS5, isn't RDNA 2? Sony Engineer Clarifies his Statements

Is the architecture of PS5 not RDNA 2 pure? Some statements were taken from a Sony engineer, who then provided further clarification on the matter.

[mrsolidsteel20]

What does that even mean? "RDNA 2, but primary RDNA 1 core."

Is either RDNA 2 or RDNA 1.

So who to believe now this guy or Mark Cerny?

Again these are honest questions that I'm asking, I'm far from a tech guy.

Someone is clearly lying.

[Marquinho]

I wouldn't say someone actually "lied".

Cerny said it was a "custom RDNA2" chip... well... it looks that this "custom" approach is closer to the "Low End RDNA2" AMD revealed in their roadmap, as Machine Learning is vital for Ray Tracing and not every RDNA2 chip will support it:

https://wccftech.com/amd-ra...

Also take a look at this:

https://twitter.com/blueisv...

So nobody lied, it's just that PS5 is missing features included in the "High End" RDNA 2 spec.

What does this mean compared to RDNA 2 (as in XSX)? ... Missing HW accelerated Ray Tracing capabilities and AMD's DLSS for what I understand.

[mrsolidsteel20]

Interesting and thanks, I know that RDNA 2 is not going to be fully utilize in both the XSX and PS5 like it will when it's release on the PC, consoles always doing heavy customization when it comes to AMD and Nvidia components.

But it's crazy confusing when this engineer said is "RDNA 2, but it's primary a RDNA 1 core" that just doesn't make any sense to me.

Unless the RDNA 1 core is for BC with PS4 games?

I really have no idea.

Again I appreciate the civil response.

[marcodias]

arent you contradicting yourself? that link says only high end rdna 2 use ray tracing, you know something already confirmed to be in most ps5 games?

[Marquinho]

Update: It also means PS5 doesn't support VRS, Mesh Shading in addition to ML.

[dekke]

https://i.imgur.com/noTXoZ3...

pls nubs stop

[crazyCoconuts]

I thought DF came to the conclusion that HW accelerated ready tracing was present in the PS5 demos.

[I_am_Batman]

First of all, both consoles use a custom GPU based on the RDNA 2 architecture. That means that their featureset will differ in certain areas from an off the shelf GPU. That has been explained in the PS5 deep dive and is not news worthy.

When it comes to machine learning, we already know that the Xbox Series X does not have tensor cores either. Instead it runs ML on it's shaders. The PS5 can do the exact same thing. Even if you run with the 'not true RDNA 2' narrative. RDNA 1 vector registers already had native support for parallel 8-bit and 4-bit integer math.

Hardware accelerated ray tracing has been confirmed over and over again. We've even seen it in action and you're still gonna claim that the PS5 does not have hardware accelerated RT?

I probably shouldn't be surprised considering you're linking tweets by blueisviolet, who has been propagating so much disinformation, it's astouding to me that he still has so many followers. He was a proponent of the 'hidden second GPU' hypothesis for the Xbox One back in the Misterxmedia days and he still jumps on nearly anything that props up Xbox and smears Playstation.

There is already enough misinformation floating around on the internet. We don't need to spread it on here too.

[IRetrouk]

I linked you the 2nd wired article that states that ml is in the ps5 yesterday, yet you still trying to say it's not, why?

Also what do you think the geometry engine does in the ps5? You realise it's been patented by cerny himself? Everyone who was pointing to the geometry engine being an rdna1 thing was wrong, including that blue dude you like quoting. I'd say read up on it but you wont, that's obvious enough just by seeing you still say the ps5 has no ml.

[IRetrouk]

Also ps5 has primitive shaders, which are the same thing as mesh shaders.

So there is ml,
There is a version of vrs
And there is a mesh shader too

its like you do no research at all.

[Christopher]

But the chip does ray tracing, confirmed by Sony on multiple occasions. And even this dev days it does everything but one thing. Contacting what you say above.

So, if ML is required for this things then it does have ML.

[Christopher]

^^^ my amazing phone skills

[I_am_Batman]

You've been actively commenting on other articles and editing this submission the whole day and yet you haven't responded to any of the criticisms aimed towards your initial comment by me or others. You've just come back to post an 'update' with even more misinformation about mesh shading and an assumption about VRS. Are you going to respond at all, or are you just interested in stirring the pot and disappearing?

[rainslacker]

"Machine Learning is vital for Ray Tracing"

No, it's not. Doesn't hurt given current tech though.

"Cerny said it was a "custom RDNA2"

MS is also using a custom RDNA2 chip. Both chips are custom.

"it looks that this "custom" approach is closer to the "Low End RDNA2"

It does? Do you even understand what a GPU architecture is or how they're classified, or what specs are actually needed to be classified as an RDNA chip? AMD and NVidia don't make that spec, ya know. It's a conglomerate of companies and standards groups and people much smarter than us that do that. If Cerny called it a RDNA2 chip, then it meets the requirements to be called one. There is no in between when it comes to standards. It can do more than the standard, but it has to have at least the minimum requirements to be called something. If there was a greater spec, then there would be a different version number.

"it's just that PS5 is missing features included in the "High End" RDNA 2 spec."

Yeah. XSX is also missing features from supposed "High End" RDNA2 specs, but there is no such thing as high end RDNA2 specs, just RDNA2 specs, and other features can be added or taken away based on the system makers(GPU or console makers) wants or needs. To use a completely made up example, a DX12 GPU that supports ray tracing, is still a DX12 card, because it has all the requirements to be classified as one. Doesn't matter if it also has other features, nor does it make cards that don't have ray tracing support not DX12.

" Missing HW accelerated Ray Tracing capabilities and AMD's DLSS for what I understand."

Sony has their own ray tracing solution, which is hardware accelerated. This has been stated by Sony, AMD, and confirmed by 3rd party groups. It is using a different implementation of RT, as opposed to MS solution.
Their chip isn't missing anything.

DLSS has been in use for quite some time without hardware. It's nothing new It was implemented on the PS3 in fact, was available on 360 when using the proper game engines, and is in both current consoles in some form or another. Sony has the same process built into their API's already. It also have variants in use in both DX and Vulcan. It just wasn't hardware accelerated in most cases, or on any console. I don't know if Sony has a hardware accelerated version in their system, but given the set up of their SSD system, I'm not sure it's actually necessary, and would be extremely limited in it's usefulness on a large scale.

[Ghostbob]

It's quite simple really it's a custom base rdna2 with a lot of futures that are not on the Xbox rdna2 witch is also is custom both have different types of features to fit their vision.

[Marquinho]

Actually, as more information surfaces things get more confusing. Unless I'm missing something, there's no proof or demo available on PS5 making extensive use of Machine Learning (and this Engineer comments might be the reason), whereas on XSX the implementation of ML-Based HDR injected into any Xbox One game via backwards compatibility is a clear (and awesome) showcase of this technology on the console, which does have dedicated hardware to it:

"We knew that many inference algorithms need only 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions for weights and the math operations involving those weights comprise the bulk of the performance overhead for those algorithms," says Andrew Goossen. "So we added special hardware support for this specific scenario. The result is that Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations. Note that the weights are integers, so those are TOPS and not TFLOPs. The net result is that Series X offers unparalleled intelligence for machine learning."

As for RT on PS5, I'm sure they have some kind of HW dedicated to it, otherwise, it would be nearly impossible to run those GT and R&C Demos on it.

What I was speculating is that it might have some trouble doing so as ML is a key component in RT acceleration, and being such a taxing feature, it'd be one less feature to "make shortcuts" in order to achieve it in real time.

Now I'd appreciate if you guys cool down and stop acting as if I was the guy to filtered this conversation on Twitter/NeoGaf.

Peace ✌️

[IRetrouk]

So you make a load of baseless claims then act the victim?🤣👌

You worked your arse off to get this story approved 🤣

You can doubt the dev about ml all you like, that was from the second wired article, no way sony is letting that go to print with anything that's not true, that would include the ea devs quote.

The rt is hardware based, just like the xbox, like it, dont, but get over it man.

[TitaniumExposed_VIP]

@Marquinho

The xbox is missing on one essential feature called:

"Talented Developers" - TD for short

[I_am_Batman]

Just to be clear I'm not shooting the messenger here. I have 0 problems with the way this article posted now. As a rumor rather than news, with the clarifying response linked instead of just the initial leaked dm discussion on neogaf. My comment is entirely focused on the misinformation you've posted in your comment and has very little to do with the article. Since you've replied I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and try to clarify some issues:

The ML figures you've posted for the XSX let us know that the console doesn't have tensor cores and instead uses the standard shader cores for the job. A shader core can do eight 8-bit integer operations per clock and twice as many (sixteen) for 4-bit integer operations. If we do the calculation we get the figures you've posted, confirming that the operations run on shader cores rather than tensor cores.

INT8: 3328(shader cores) * 8 (operations / cycle) * 1825 (clock cycles / second) = 48588800 (Operations / second) = ~48.6 TOPS

For 4-bit integer it's the same calculation, but it's double the operations / cycle so you can simply multiply the 8-bit figure by 2. I won't go into the details for tensor core calculations, but the math is different and tensor cores are much more efficient at doing those operations (which makes sense of course, because they've been designed to do them).

Considering the consoles don't have Tensor cores and someone is asked whether they'll have something like DLSS it's much more understandable why someone would say they have no ML (meaning no dedicated ML hardware). I think that's the reason Rosario responded the way he did. That would be true for both consoles.

But how do we know whether the PS5 supports 8-bit and 4-bit integer operations? We don't, but it's very likely. Here's why:

The Dual compute architecture was built from the ground up to support all sorts of data types. AMD could've implemented INT8 and INT4 support in Navi 10 GPUs if they wanted, but since they have a fairly low amount of CUs at fairly low clocks the ML performance wouldn't have been great. Another reason to exclude it was that ML doesn't have much utility in gaming at the moment and those cards were strictly build for gaming. The consoles on the other hand are build for years to come and having some rudimentary ML capabilities makes much more sense in that context.

From the RDNA whitepaper:
"The new SIMDs were built for mixed-precision operation and efficiently compute with a variety of datatypes to enable scientific computing and machine learning."

"More importantly, the compute unit vector registers natively support packed data including two half-precision (16-bit) FP values, four 8-bit integers, or eight 4-bit integers."

"For even greater throughput, some ALUs will support 8-bit integer dot4 operations and 4-bit dot8 operations, all of which use 32-bit accumulators to avoid any overflows."

So it's very clear that ML capabilities have been on the menu for both MS and Sony even in the earlier planning stages. Of course Sony could've still decided against implementing it with PS5, but the evidence is pointing in the other direction.

Laura Miele on ML: https://www.wired.com/story...
Toshihiro Nagoshi: https://wccftech.com/playst...

(ran out of characters so just the links)

[King Nezz]

@Marquinho
You brave soul. Bless you for putting yourself at risk against the Sony Squad.

[fr0sty]

PS5 supports RT, it was shown in many of the showcase games, such as GT7.

What it MIGHT not support based on this news would be hardware support of a machine learning algorithm to apply AI noise reduction to the image generated by RT, so shadows and reflections might be a tad more grainy on PS5 if that were the case... unless the dev decided to dedicate come CPU or even the tempest engine towards that task, assuming Cerny saying the TE could be used for things other than 3D audio as well holds true.

Ray Tracing, especially real time, can lead to grainy results if you don't let it iterate enough times, which it can't always do when in real time, so AI noise reduction steps in and removes some of that grain for a cleaner looking image.

It's basically what I do when previewing a ray traced render in Cinema 4D. I do a quick, low-iteration Ray Trace of the animation, then pass it through state of the art noise reduction software to eliminated the grain from the image, which gives me a pretty good idea of what my high quality, high iteration render (that can take days per frame depending on how far I wanna push it) will look like in the end.

[bouzebbal]

The reason I choose gaming on consoles is because I don't want that tech headache.. I buy a console for the games it offers, completely regardless of the tech.
I am still playing 3ds, I favor it to switch for the exact same reasons..

[kryteris]

unless they have their own solutions, could be devastating.

[IRetrouk]

Frosty the gpu can do machine learning man, this has been known since 2019...

"I could be really specific and talk about experimenting with ambient occlusion techniques, or the examination of ray-traced shadows," says Laura Miele, chief studio officer for EA. "More generally, we’re seeing the GPU be able to power machine learning for all sorts of really interesting advancements in the gameplay and other tools." 

https://www.wired.com/story...

[FITSniper]

That's not what he said. And Sony has confirmed HW accelerated ray tracing for the PS5.

[rainslacker]

I'm curious how a dev could make a demo showing off machine learning that would be tangible enough for the layman to see it in action. Machine learning isnt something that shows direct results, and only helps along other processes or functions which have more substantial hardware or software to implement the data that machine learning spots out.

I could make something that would calculate data and processing of data provided through machine learning, and its be readable to someone who understands what they're looking at. However, since it appears that the average person doesnt know what the differences are for half the terms I used in this post...and that's being generous...i doubt there would be anything that really represents what machine learning can do. On top of that, ML is only as beneficial as what its data sets allow the actual hardware or functions to do with that info.

Realizing that you don't understand this stuff with enough technical expertise would help you from making brash assumptions without the ability to back them up. Not to say some of the people refuting you are any better in this understanding, but for the most part, they're providing sources stating that your comment is just false, or at least you misinterpret things.

[ILostMyMind]

We actually don't know either if XSX is full RDNA 2.

[marcodias]

mark cerny confirmed it rdna 2, not only that but a custom build, how did this person confirm he works for playstation? maybe the dev kit had a version 1, but cerny clearly states more than once it is rdna 2, if this person doesnt work for sony or has wrong information, either way if sony doesnt confirm its not rdna 2 dont believe it.

we've had our share of "people in the industry" downplay ps5, with heating problems, ps5 is only 9 tflops, no hardware ray tracing (which mark cerny confirmed in that event too) and now rdna 1, if sony doesnt confirm it you shouldnt believe it, though theres quite a few sites already running this story as facts since yesterday.

i'll leave this here https://www.pcgamesn.com/am...

[purple101]

I remember that..

&, niiice

[rainslacker]

Are you saying Sony needs to repeat itself because someone is saying something that contradicts their already clearly stated facts, that weren't presented with any kind of obfuscation?

I'm more prone to believe Sony in this case, particularly coming from the system architect who has proven he knows what he's doing and talking about, than I am about some source on the internet. The gaming press hasn't proven itself reliable enough in the past decade to believe any source they considered verified, and more often than not, their sources are usually reddit posters, who were supposedly verified by a third party.

Even if the guy here works for Sony, I'm more likely to believe a direct admission by the system architect, than a possibly misinterpreted quote to a journalist, who don't care to research, seek comment from Sony, or do the bare minimum of journalistic work before posting this information.

We all know this article, or those that cite it, are going to be posted as proof that Sony lied, or that the system isn't RDNA2, because why believe something direct from the mouth of the system architect....from a presentation meant for actual devs, who would not want to be lied to about such things.

[jlove4life]

Nice read lol straight facts they're not just using RDNA 2 they helped build it to utilize the best features for ps5

[Kribwalker]

it could have some of the features of a RDNA 2 card but not all features, which is why it could be called a “custom rdna 2 gpu”

The big thing is if it has machine learning or not and vrs. We know both of these are in the Series X, but we don’t know if they are on the PS5 yet.
If the ps5 is based on the rumoured 5700 and then upclocked as rumoured, it could be quite interesting to see how it fares vs the series x
https://hothardware.com/new...

[IRetrouk]

Wired article for machine learning.
Geometry engine = vrs.
Primitive shaders = mesh shaders.

[Kribwalker]

primitive shaders do not equal mesh shaders

Mesh Shaders are newer, more efficient and can process both Vertex AND primitive Shaders. A mesh shader can be programmed to act as either or both.

you wouldn’t call it primitive shaders it it was mesh shaders, because primitive can be done in mesh.

Mesh is also a RDNA 2 feature

https://microsoft.github.io...

[IRetrouk]

You don't know what the primitive shaders can do just because of a name, pulling crap out your arse as usual, cerny will have made customizations, just like the geometry engine... they do indeed do the same thing.

"Primitive shaders are lightweight shaders that break the separation of vertex and geometry shaders, promising a performance gain in supporting games."

https://www.techpowerup.com...

Sounds exactly the same as when people were pointing at the geometry engine and calling that rdna1 tech, even though its cernys own design...

[Christopher]

It's all up in the air, to be honest. But, let's remember Cerny's remarks and what they are doing:

----------------------

On a features level, Cerny reveals features that suggest parity with other upcoming AMD and AMD-derived products based on the RDNA 2 technology. A new block known as the Geometry Engine offers developers unparalleled control over triangles and other primitives, and easy optimisation for geometry culling. Functionality extends to the creation of 'primitive shaders' which sounds very similar to the mesh shaders found in Nvidia Turing and upcoming RDNA 2 GPUs.

PlayStation 5's ray tracing support is in line with the implementations we've seen in the PC space.
While Cerny doesn't mention technologies such as machine learning support or variable rate shading, PS5 does indeed deliver hardware-accelerated ray tracing via its Intersection Engine, which Cerny says is "based on the same strategy as AMD's upcoming PC GPUs". There had been speculation of an external block, but that's not the case - like next-gen Navi and Xbox Series X, the RT hardware is built into the shaders and so fully integrated. Similar to the RDNA implementation, PS5 will have access to the same kind of RT implementations we've seen in the PC space - reflections, ambient occlusion, shadows and global illumination are a good fit.

"How far can we go? I'm starting to get quite bullish," says Cerny. "I've already seen a PS5 title that is successfully using ray-tracing-based reflections in complex animated scenes, with only modest costs."

-----------------------

I, honestly, don't know how the end result will work out on PS5. It's already a given the XSX will have better features. Both consoles should hit UHD quality textures, but how they will get the rest of stuff to work is to be seen. Less questionable on XSX by far as it's doing everything by the book. Sony, though, they're doing another PS3 it seems.

Personally, I'm not too invested in "the best" but "the games" but I definitely plan to get both within the first year of release and will determine from there which machine will be my permanent "third-party gaming machine." Currently, it's the XBO. Might be the XSX if the features on PS5 just don't add up.

[DarXyde]

Stop. Please. The misinformation is staggering.

https://www.google.com/amp/...

The Geometry Engine is built around VRS, which by virtue of design, mandates its presence.

[sprinterboy]

Exactly, even series X is custom.
Do gamers actually think both Sony and MS were gonna use proper full spec RDNA 2 lol pmsl

[cooperdnizzle]

@ Kribwalker Mesh/Primitive Shading seems to allow for both SIGNIFICANTLY higher geometric complexity as well as reduced CPU usage. They are both considered to be the same thing and used interchangeably. Xbox fan make up what ever they want and spin it as truth.

[MADGameR]

The guy claims he woke up at 5AM to to play Ghosts of Tsushima... that sounds like an X Box guy trying to act like he is in the know of PlayStation and trying to act like he's a PlayStation fan. When it is a direct attack on PS5, that is not a PS fan, that is an X Box fanboy in desguise

[Ryzza5]

On the PC side, RDNA2 at it's higher levels is rumoured to be in the range of 40-60% better than an nVidia 2080Ti, and may even out-perform the next gen nVidia 3xxx series cards if nVidia is stuck on Samsung 8nm and AMD has access to 7nm. (nVidia may go for loads of power and heat to stay competitive).

The next consoles were said to be around the performance level of a 2080Ti (perhaps with slightly better Ray Tracing chops) which is in lnie with previous comments about console custom RDNA2 being lower-end. Of course, that's expected given the entire console with GPU, BluRay drive and SSD being priced under a high end PC graphics card.

Whichever platform you're going to be on in 6 months, there will be salivating performance bumps to look forward to. If nVidia is dethroned by AMD this year in PC-land, you can be sure they will fight back agressively next year.

[kryteris]

was not rdna 1 hybrid? seems that is more fitting for backwards compatibility.

[soulrebel]

"It's either RDNA 1 or 2"

No, it could be primarily 1,but include a few features of two. Just like some 2020 TVs aren't full hdmi 2.1, but include some hdmi 2.1 features.
Not everything is binary.

[IRetrouk]

How could it be primarily rdna1? The cores are rdna2 cores lol, then theres the clock speeds ..

[rainslacker]

There are two things that are used when talking about a gpu spec.

One is the minimum hardware process requirement to be able to be called that spec. A process is anything that runs on a processor.
So, the add process will take two pieces of data, and add them together. This is different from a function, as a function will perform a process, or set of processes, using pieces of data. This will mean that it will have to have at least a base set of processes within the hardware itself.

This hardware spec is often, of not always also defined by a minimum or required level of hardware design, and often requires using specific core level operational implementations to insure compatibility. This hardware typically uses the same general core design throughout its lifetime, with new things added on top...kind of like x86 up until then iSeries of processors, which emulate some older core code.

The second part which defines the spec is the base hardware calls which APIs and tools will use to make the processor work. This is also where the bus, OS, assembly, and compiler languages are defined for those that need to use the hardware.

What most people are talking about in the forums is the higher level above the second part, which is more about the currently available tools, and moreso the current development know how with the new designs.

When sony, or MS say they have RDNA2 chips, it means they meet the minimum requirements to call them that. If something is defined as a requirement for the spec, whether its RT, DLSS, Machine Learning, or any other fancy feature that may exist, it will be included in the form its originally intended. It can modify those implementations on any level to make them more efficient, or better in some cases, but it has to use the hardware designs that exist to do so, or add onto those designs.

While this.post is long winded, it's actually a simplified version of what I'm having trouble putting into words.

[slavish0]

You know what this means, u want to be confused because the truth hurts you more😂

[Hakuoro]

"For example, support for ray tracing is not present in any AMD GPU currently on the market. (...) The PlayStation 5 GPU is unique, it cannot be classified as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4."

"It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less.

[Marquinho]

He said that after the original post in NeoGAF. He is proving that he actually said that.

Obviously, he will try to minimize his words, but the fact still stands on that PS5 will lack Machine Learning, which is a huge feature of RDNA2 specification, present on XSX for example.

From Leonardi himself: "It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, ONE LESS."

[marcodias]

he said it was rdna 1, then next day changes its tune and it is rdna 2 with more features but with "maybe" has one less feature and from that you say its facts? he went from its true to it may be, nothing from that seems like facts to me, not that you would know what facts and opinions are, you use your feelings as facts.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Even if true it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Games will still look great and amazing to the eyes and will still be fun regardless if machine learning is there or not.

If you care about the my favorite console is better than your favorite console wars then sure, keep fighting the good fight.

[Hakuoro]

The only thing I know is that your motivation is to make PS5 look bad.

I trust Cerny over some soon to be unemployed shlub that no one had even heard of before yesterday.

[gravedigger]

MS called their own console XSX is RDNA 2 custom, Sony their own PS5 custom RDNA 2. You can also see the same thing in Digital Foundry articles for both console where it says CUSTOM RDNA 2 for both. So, what's the problem?

Anyway, Leonardi later said this ( as it is mentioned in the article ) : ""RDNA 2 is a commercial theme to simplify the market, otherwise GPUs with completely random features would come out and it would be difficult for the average user to choose," wrote Leonardi.

"For example, support for ray tracing is not present in any AMD GPU currently on the market. (...) The PlayStation 5 GPU is unique, it cannot be classified as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4."

"It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less. That message turned out badly, I was tired and I shouldn't have written the things I wrote", continued the engineer, complaining that he received insults for his statements."

So, BASED RDNA 2. It's custom RDNA 2. Sony helped AMD in developing Navi GPU ( RDNA 2 in that regard ). Also, if is RDNA, PS5 GPU wouldn't hit clock speed over 2 GHz, but RDNA 2 can because 50% efficiency. Also, Ray Tracing is only in RDNA 2.

[IRetrouk]

https://www.wired.com/story...

"I could be really specific and talk about experimenting with ambient occlusion techniques, or the examination of ray-traced shadows," says Laura Miele, chief studio officer for EA. "More generally, we’re seeing the GPU be able to power MACHINE LEARNING for all sorts of really interesting advancements in the gameplay and other tools."

[ziggurcat]

"From Leonardi himself: 'It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, ONE LESS.'"

Seems. That's speculative, not factual.

[OB1Biker]

He obviously made a stupid message engaging with fanboys.
I think RDNA 2 is the architecture. It doesnt matter what features Sony and Ms pick and choose or ADD their own features. Both are OFFICIALLY BASED on RDNA2. Not called 'FULL' rdna2 which doesnt make sense for a custom console.
There is no such a thing as RDNA 1.5

[DarXyde]

I'm seeing a pattern with your posts, lad.

It seems you're putting in a lot of free hours before 23 July.

[mrsolidsteel20]

What the hell? Like always let's wait until we receive the official word from Sony.

What a joke, "That message turned out badly, I was tired and I shouldn't have written the things I wrote"

"It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less."

This guy clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

[RpgSama]

From a supposed Sony engineer to say this late in the game "it seems to me", actually means he's talking out of his ass, he either knows or he doesn't, there are no in betweens.

[rainslacker]

I question the source personally

I will say though, that very few engineers are fully versed on every aspect of any one hardware architecture....in particular one as complex as a GPU. I write tools that use the GPU's for a living, and I'm always finding new things, or finding new ways to do things that I wouldn't have though possible on processors all the time. When I need something, I find a way to do it, and that often leads me to learn new things, which I sometimes just forget later because I never touch them again.

But, I do know an architecture is defined by some standard. Every chip that uses that standard will have a base set of features or processes that are required by the standard, otherwise, it'll will be some other standard, or it's own thing. I may not know all those standards, but if a company publicly states it meets those standards, it's probably the case....outside outright misrepresentation which rarely happens with direct statements.

That said, an engineer that says it's not any specific spec isn't met because it has some added things, or maybe it's missing something from another chip which has some added thing, is probably not the most well versed engineer to be talking about such things. That was supposedly when he was awake and aware. His original statement was even harder to take with confidence.

That said, Sony engineers don't remain Sony engineers too long after they go on forums and publicly talk about matters that are protected by NDA. Even if those things have been spoken about publicly. There is a clear line that employees are not supposed to cross when it comes to the press or speaking publicly about subjects they're not cleared to speak about publicly. All major companies have rules like this. He may have been tired, but even then, you have to want to be fired, possibly sued, to hit that submit button to placate some random forum goers who mean absolutely nothing to you, and only care about what you can do for them, not what you may have to offer. Which is why these companies have these rules about speaking to the public in the first place.

[jznrpg]

It’s also Google translate

[mrsolidsteel20]

Can anyone confirm if this a real software engineer?

[elazz]

He probably is but then again there are thousands if not tens of thousands in that field. Also he says he was wrong. In the end it might not be RDNA 2 because it has more features except for one but he's not sure. Anyway. The only thing you can consider fact is anything Mark Cerny has said or in official publications.

[timotim]

That is certainly one of the real PS5 engineers. He says its not full RDNA 2...his words not mine.

[mrsolidsteel20]

@Timotim

Did he come out again saying that it’s not RDNA 2 or are you referring to his first statement?

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

What about Cerny's words?

[timotim]

He said based on RDNA1 AND RDNA 2...but not FULL RDNA 2

[_dangerclose_]

And here you are again.

"It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less. That message turned out badly, I was tired and I shouldn't have written the things I wrote",

His words not yours.

[timotim]

LOL...I mean yeah...he was so tired, he just got lost in his own thoughts and misplaced his logic temporarily...makes perfect sense to me. Or maybe he got a call the next morning from the higher ups telling him to shut up or find another job...

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

"LOL...I mean yeah...he was so tired, he just got lost in his own thoughts and misplaced his logic temporarily...makes perfect sense to me. Or maybe he got a call the next morning from the higher ups telling him to shut up or find another job..."

LOL. . . people really pick and choose what they want to believe and WHO they want to believe. Bet if this was the reverse (praising the PS5 as being better than SX and later retracted his statement) you wouldn't be saying that. . . oh wait

[timotim]

I mean...youre free to believe all ya like that these very intelligent individuals that are suppose to know these boxes in and out just somehow forgot that it wasnt full RDNA 2...then later somehow remembered that it was. I know which one sounds more logical to me. He told the truth from the rip, then tried his best to clean it up once others got to him about how it would be perceived.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

"I know which one sounds more logical to me. He told the truth from the rip, then tried his best to clean it up once others got to him about how it would be perceived."

Right. . . just like that crytec dev. . .

[timotim]

I have to disagree with you there...the Crytec dev wasn't an official engineer of the PS5 hardware...this guy is. He would actually KNOW something like that...where as the Crytec dev could have been going off more of what he heard but didnt have first hand experience like this guy does.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Cerny would KNOW, AMD would KNOW too, but you seem to ignore that. . . probably think they're lying like you think Sweeny is. . .

"where as the Crytec dev could have been "

"could have been" So you don't KNOW. It's still a possibility that the higher ups yanked him just as you ASSUME here. Difference is one favors the one you prefer over the other. . .

[RpgSama]

Like I said above, from a supposed software engineer working with the console to say this late in the game "it seems to him" that it has one less feature, actually means he's talking out of his ass, he either knows or he doesn't, there are no in betweens

[throne]

the truth is its RDNA 2, cerny even the CEO of AMD said so, so what's the problem, even the engineer said its based on RDNA 2 period...in the end these fanboys are grasping at whatever straws they can find just to make themselves feel better...what's so sad is after the confirmation they still dont want to believe, its RDNA 2 deal with it.

[stuna1]

Yeah, I think he works at Redmond.

[badboyz09]

IN ENGLISH???????

[Father__Merrin]

No doubt expert technical experts on n4g will come to the rescue on this one.

[_dangerclose_]

Exactly I don't bother listening to people like Mark Cerny or Digital Foundry its not like those guys know anything, what I like to do is come here and get all my technical information from certain people on this site that always seem to be in a rush to talk in an educated manor about something they know nothing about.

[MADGameR]

False claim. Mark Cerny CLEARLY stated in the PS5 deep dive video that he PS5 has RDNA 2. Lisa Su (from AMD) confirmed that the PS5 has RDNA 2. Clearly this person making this claim is downplaying the PS5 because MS's event is in 3 days. It's an attempt to put down the PS5 because team X Box is insecure.

[throne]

well apparently that's not good enough, they called tom sweeney a liar, why wouldn't they say the same about lisa su and cerny

[Killer73nova]

Because it’s the ps5 and if anything bad is said about it Ps fanboys will either say they are liars or send death threats

[alb1899]

What I have read says that Cerny said that ps5 has a Custom RDNA 2 and what the engineer said was that it is an RDNA between 1 and 2. I think they are not contradicting each other. The thing is that Cerny talk with more careful than the engineer.

[ShadowWolf712]

@alb EVERY console has custom chips. The custom refers to the chip itself, not the "RDNA 2".

[stuna1]

That's exactly what it is! Even in Cernys teardown the chip was also shown. But the guy making the claim did not have access to the newer PS5 dev kit, he was going on information he had on older dev kits

[Rainbowcookie]

Must be the power of the cloud...

[stuna1]

When something says based, it means it's built from the ground up! Reading is one thing, understanding is a whole different thing.

So many want Sonys tech to be less than it actually is, it's really starting to border on pathetic and desperate!

The teraflop argument; Xbox is a "beast", the PS5 is weak.

Raytracing; Xbox has hardware based raytracing, PS5 doesn't have hardware that supports raytracing and relies on minimal software raytracing.

The CU's argument; Xbox has 52 CU's, PS5 only has 36 CU's.

Frame rate argument; Xbox can do 240 fps, PS5 only does 30 fps.

You know what everything I stated has in common except when it comes to the CU's!? Everything has been proven false.

To make matters worse....people are so focused on what these systems could do, when they need to be focused on what they should do! And that's to provide what they're built for.....Games! With that I know which one has been doing that on a consistent basis. The other one not so much.

For those who say they been content with Microsofts offerings, I'm calling them bold faced liers, because how can you be a true gamer, but yet are still stuck in the past!? Also don't try to fall back on the mediocre crap that Microsoft tried to pass off as games because everyone knows it has been pathetic.

[stuna1]

Have as the foundation for (something);used as a point from which (something) can develop.
Found,build,construct,form,es tablish,ground.

[Looper]

Tell us how you really feel pal. You sound close to tears.

[stuna1]

Nah I'm alright, but for you it seems you got a lot of bottled up emotion being so empathetic and all, it's alright to let it out.

[Atticus_finch]

He was very clear about how he feels.
But go ahead looper tell us how YOU really feel...

[_dangerclose_]

Well said.

[stuna1]

It's funny how people hate truth, but will swallow a lie at a moments notice! N4G is so much like Meticritics opencritic. People disagree even when they don't have a valid reason to disagree lol.

[rainslacker]

""RDNA 2 is a commercial theme to simplify the market, otherwise GPUs with completely random features would come out and it would be difficult for the average user to choose," wrote Leonardi."

Dunno if this is some sort of odd google translation, but this is not what RDNA is. Yes, it does do what is said here, but that is a matter of circumstance, not it's primary goal. RDNA does set down standards, but it is not a commercial theme, it is an official set of standards to which GPU's are given to meet said standard. It is also a manufacturing standard, and key processes are consistent through the standard to facilitate API and SDK creation.

What this statement implies is basically that all RDNA2 is is some sort of standard similar to what DirectX is to PC programming. This is a huge oversimplification of hardware standards.

""For example, support for ray tracing is not present in any AMD GPU currently on the market. (...) The PlayStation 5 GPU is unique, it cannot be classified as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4."

This is not how RDNA is classified. Added features do not make it a different standard in hardware, nor it's core processes. On the hardware level, removing some features may not change it still having its core processes not still being a standard.

[pornflakes]

More truth will come about the ps5 once the Hardware specs are out offical.

Strange that sony only talks about 10.2 tflops with boost mode on highest clock speed. And whats the min clock speed? The rumored 9.2 tflops then?

No rdna2, variable clock speeds to fake the world with max output data but the fastest ssd on earth which costs tons of money. 825 GB - this fact alone should you guys let think how much money the ssd costs in the ps5. Cant wait for the ssd upgrates and its costs.

Sony is also very quite on backward support. Expect to see ps5 Versions like tlou 2 without a patch as this game did cost unbelievable huge money.

[sinspirit]

Fake copy and paste opinion. You've been disproven already. What's your fake concern say about yourself? If you're not here to converse with others, AKA take in information and give a real opinion of your own, then don't be here at all. Your comment is Spam. You've nothing to gain here except some false feeling of being a part of an elitist group over a plastic box. If it were so certain that your box preference were great, then you wouldn't be yacking fake info and agendas.

[pornflakes]

This was my personal opinion. Why did sony still not send the Hardware to Reviews?? But MS did... Why??

Fake news - wait some more few weeks and you will see real numbers from DF and 3rd party devs :))

P.S.: dual Sense pad als o never show from the back- expect aa bateries to save costs - also just my opinion which i highly believe in

[sinspirit]

@pornflakes

An opinion requires some form of information or explanation when it comes to technology and practical device. They did show the back of the DualSense... Geoff Keighley showed it. Where in what possible world could you guess they would switch to disposables?

Tired of seeing fake opinions flooding every article and the ridiculous "analysts" here. You don't even listen to what people say to you. You act like you care when something perpetuates your biased agenda, but turn the cheek when the opposite is so.

Having hardware to review doesn't mean you can post your review publically. It's called an NDA, Non-Disclosure Agreement. I know what you're doing. You're just picking things up while you bs your way through conversation here. I gave you the attention you wanted. Time and time again the fake noise we see people making here has done absolutely nothing. Even with the huge TLoU2 controversy. Give it a rest. I just want to help you realize you're wasting your time, while I'm finding a way to pass mine.

[Ghostbob]

It's 10.2 & in worst case game like a badly made game, it will only go down a few % so no it's not 9.2 tflops.that's your fanboys wish like it's only rdna 1 but in reality, it's a 10.2 tflops. Custom RDNA2 just like the Xbox is and both have different features+Sony worked with AMD on RDNA features witch could be on future RDNA chips like RDNA3 that's why sony might have some RDNA3 features also on the chip as RedGamingTech said he heard.

[rainslacker]

I see the term fake thrown out a lot in your post. Seems that your ignorance of what was being said has led you to the assumption that Sony hasn't actually said anything, or that what you heard is somehow fake.

The subject has been discussed to death in detail, by people who do get it. You can either read those things and learn, or continue expressing your ignorance. Doing the latter doesnt make Sony look deceitful, it just makes you look ignorant, or incapable of learning anything.

I see your taking a cue from trump's playbook. You say it's your opinion, but all I see is you making comments which imply something, then act like your just asking the question. So, why does everyone else have to figure this out for you if you're really that interested? The info is already out there, so asking why to imply some sort of conspiracy or cover up by Sony, is just a means to try and bring sony down, because you have nothing else of worth to really bring them down with.

[ForwardDude]

Since PS5 has a custom RDNA 2 chip, the standard RDNA 2 specs doesn't apply. It would be like a custom sport car without sport tires, but that have a better custom transmission that bypass the need for sport tires. Since the car hasn't been fully shown yet ( the PS5 ), we cannot know for sure if the lack of sport tires ( one feature among many ) really impact the performance at all. Mark Cerny already said they are working with AMD and that Sony have patents related to RDNA architecture that won't be in any other RDNA chips. RDNA 2 is only a marketing term at the end of the day.

[lazyboyblue]

These tech arguments are getting boring. I'm getting the ps5 because I want the games that Sony makes. The Xbox Series X is a lot more powerful. That's a fact. Big deal. The X is more powerful than the pro but the world didn't end then so it won't now. Let's move on.

[traumadisaster]

Right get the ps5 for exclusives and if you care about the multiplats being better get x also.

[lazyboyblue]

@Joe I tried. Man I tried. Gave my last rig (rx580 based) to my so to enjoy. I think it's mostly used for Roblox and YouTube now.
They're just not for. Much prefer the console eco system. I tried though.

[lazyboyblue]

It's sensible. I'm personally just going to stick with my xb1x for Xbox games. Everything else ps5. That's the plan. Unless series X is WAY cheaper than ps5.

[Rainbowcookie]

Yes and get the new xbox series x 2 two years after that.

[cooperdnizzle]

the series x is not a lot more powerful. Only 17%. If you take speed into account and do the math its actually weaker. I have seen tech brake downs of this. All I can say is wait util they release. Sony will have the better running console. I would be willing to bet my mortgage check on it

[lazyboyblue]

My point is if xbots want the win so badly then just let them have it. On paper the Xbox Series X is the better machine. Powers never been the focus for PS fans anyway. If it were we'd all get a pc instead. No, we're here for Ghost o tsushima, last of us, uncharted, Horizon, Ratchet, Days gone, the order 1886, God of war and so on.

[Rainbowcookie]

Its always funny how ahead of a game showcase xbots get all cocky... i mean people started to queue when they though ps5 pre-orders were going to open... not something microsoft wants you to focus now... we all know its about the games... so I agree with you.

[chiefJohn117]

Wow, so it's not RDNA2

[Ghostbob]

Yes & No it is custom RDNA2 just like the Xbox is and both have different features Sony worked with AMD on RDNA features witch could be on future RDNA chips like RDNA3 that's why sony might have some RDNA3 features also on the chip as RedGamingTech said he heard.

[slavish0]

No xbox is rdna 2. It's one the xbox page.

[Sophisticated_Chap]

This is no different than current RDNA GPUs like the RX 5700. RDNA is basically GCN micro-architecture, but on a more efficient 7nm node. The PS5 is essentially using a more efficient RX 5700 with 36 Compute Units. The boost clock on the reference RX 5700 is 1725 MHz, giving it 7.949 TFLOPS of FP32 performance. The PS5 however, jacks up the boost clock to 2230 MHz, giving it a max output of 10.3 TFLOPS of FP32 performance.

If this is true, then you can't compare the Series X and the PS5 directly, because RDNA2 will have better efficiency, meaning that 1 TFLOP of RDNA performance, might be comparable to 1.10 TFLOP of performance with RDNA2 (as an example), similar to how AMD performance compares with Nvidia performance on PC. The Digital Foundry analysis can't come soon enough.

[FGHFGHFGH]

Differences between GCN and RDNA 1
There are architectural changes which affect how code is scheduled:

Single cycle instruction issue:
GCN issued one instruction per wave once every 4 cycles.
RDNA issues instructions every cycle.
Wave32:
GCN used a wavefront size of 64 threads (work items).
RDNA supports both wavefront sizes of 32 and 64 threads.
Workgroup Processors:
GCN grouped the shader hardware into "compute units" (CUs) which contained scalar ALUs and vector ALUs, LDS and memory access. One CU contains 4 SIMD16s which share one path to memory.
RDNA introduced the "workgroup processor" ("WGP"). The WGP replaces the compute unit as the basic unit of shader computation hardware/computing. One WGP encompasses 2 CUs. This allows significantly more compute power and memory bandwidth to be directed at a single workgroup. In RDNA 1 CU is one half of a WG

RDNA 2 has been confirmed as the graphics microarchitecture that will be used in the upcoming ninth-generation gaming consoles (namely Xbox Series X[19] from Microsoft, and PlayStation 5[20] from Sony), with proprietary tweaks and different GPU configurations in each systems' implementation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

[RazzerRedux]

"If this is true, then you can't compare the Series X and the PS5 directly"

The dev says it "seems" PS5 is RDNA 2 minus "one feature" which is ML. You are assuming the CU are not RDNA 2 which is an incorrect assumption based on what he has said.

[SamTheGamer]

Oh come on. It is clear now that XSX is bases on RDNA 2 with some features of RDNA 3 and PS5 is based on RDNA 1 with some features of RDNA 1.5.

- Some fanbois

[stuna1]

Yall guys crack me up! There is not a such thing as RDNA 1.5, and to show true ignorance you all want to try to portray a 50% jump for PS5 vs a 100% jump for Series X lol! Get out of here with that mess, especially knowing it was Sony who helped work on the RDNA architecture.

[Good-Smurf]

So back in deep dive video RDNA 2 is shown front and center while lead system architect talking about it yet I'm supoosed to take this engineer seriously.
Then what took you months to say it just before Xbox event then?

[traumadisaster]

Would be crazy if multiplats are quite a bit better on the competition, enough so where regular gamers understand it’s much better in frame rate and graphics.

I doubt that could happen, to be a huge gulf between the two- but it would be crazy.

[MagUk]

We’ve see the PS5 in action GT looked amazing with Ray tracing and so did R&C! Sony and there teams will produce amazing games no matter the specifications of the PS5 who’s worried? I ain’t.

[xetiro]

Let me see...

A - Mark Cerny the architect of the PS5 himself working with hundreds of engineers on PS5 hardware for years:

1) Makes an official tech presentation on PS5 hardware where he confirms RDNA 2 architecture and Hardware Accelerated Ray Tracing. Gives examples at what extend he have seen developers using Ray Tracing.
2) Admits they did a not so good job before with PS4 cooling system. And so he explains a complete new approach to manage the thermals on the promise of a good cooling system for PS5 this time around.

B - Sony PS5 Reveal event of what they have been working for years for next-gen PS5:

1) Showcases first batch of exclusives PS5 games all using Ray Tracing.
2) Showcases the PS5 itself

C) Internet genius people, most with no expertise on the field, never worked on something like PS5 on their lives, not currently working on the PS5 either:

1) PS5 design is bad, facing overheating problems, probably Sony will have to delay it.
2) PS5 is not RDNA 2, but RDNA 1.
3) Not sure if PS5 have Ray Tracing supported by hardware.
4) PS5 doesn't support A, B and C.

I am honestly surprised how "Internet" didn't come up with a cure for CODVID-19 yet...

[ecchiless]

"I am honestly surprised how "Internet" didn't come up with a cure for CODVID-19 yet... "
Bleach injection?

xD

[Einhander1971]

The games Sony displayed at the reveal event, looked incredible. So personally I don't really care about all this obsession with the tech. Its going to be an amazing piece of kit, enjoy it and stop worrying about things most of you haven't got a clue about.

[galmi]

I know you love sony but there was really nothing incredible there, they good but not incredible...well some of them looked good

[PyroMessiah86]

Interesting news that this keeps cropping up. I had heard some months ago that PS5 was RDNA 1+. With a RDNA 1 core plus custom RDNA 2 features.

That does mean however that some features requiring RDNA 2 core will be missing. If this is true.

Could be a reason ML, VRS etc hasn't been mentioned. Time will tell.

[IRetrouk]

You mean fake news pushed by fanboys? Everything you wrote is wrong🤣

[CertifiedGamer]

This is not a Playstation engineer, this is not even verified, I rather believe Mark Cerny than some random dude.

[Imortus_san]

What new!? PS5 is not RDNA 2, they never confirmed it, so it was obvious it was not RDNA 2, LMAO.

[IRetrouk]

Are you drunk or high? The dude that designed the playstation confirmed it, multiple times, amd, the chip maker, also confirmed it, multiple times, Sony as a company also confirmed it multiple times...what are you talking about🤔🤣

[Rainbowcookie]

More than one source confirmed its custom rdna 2. Back to the shadows!

[RaiderNation]

Here is an excerpt from an article that was published back in March on this very subject. I'm not posting it in support or refute of what this guy said. I'm just saying he's not the first person to bring this up.

"Are both the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 using the same "custom RDNA 2"?

For both the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5, AMD provides semi-custom silicon for both Microsoft and Sony, allowing both manufacturers to work with AMD on their future hardware designs. By definition; these semi-custom hardware designs are custom, which means that Sony and Microsoft can define custom hardware tweaks and feature upgrades for their systems, outside of what AMD can provide with its CPU/graphics IP.

In Sony;'s PlayStation 4 Pro, Sony utilised custom checkerboarding hardware, and while this feature wasn't used widely on the system, it is an excellent example of how custom silicon can be used to enhanced the capabilities of a console. With Xbox Series X, Microsoft lists "Patented Variable Rate Shading" (VRS) as a feature, suggesting that Sony may not have access to the same functionality on its RDNA 2 silicon. It is also possible that Sony's PlayStation 5 has an inferior implementation of Variable Rate Shading.

Sony has also made no mention of AI and Machine Learning when talking about its PlayStation 5 console, whereas Microsoft has discussed support for 16-bit float and 4-bit integer performance. Microsoft plans to leverage its DirectML API to utilise low-precision calculations to improve future games using AI and Machine Learning algorithms.

It is possible that Microsoft and Sony aren't using the same "Custom RDNA 2" architecture, and this represents a unique possibility for AMD. "

From what I am able to read into this is, both console's GPU's are custom RDNA 2. However it appears the feature sets on both GPU's are not the same as far as we know. MS has clearly listed both VRS and DirectML as features on the XSX while Sony has not specified those features on PS5's GPU. At least not in those specific terms. Does that mean Sony"s GPU cannot achieve similar results? Maybe, maybe not. Look the reality is once the consoles are in our hands, all this talk goes away. The proof will be in the pudding. Once we start seeing multiplat games running on both systems, then we'll know if the extra "oompf" in the Series X will result in any appreciable difference on screen.

[FanboysKiller]

Custom means something special or a secret souce for a gpu that may not happen on the pc spectrum , it doesn't says below or above rdna 2 but it's clear that it won't be a typical modest upgrade over rdna.

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

This guy didn’t say anything that hasn’t been out in the wild for awhile. This goes as far back to the amd leak from last fall. Both systems use custom rdna2 architecture but the series x is vastly better integrated with the new tech. Meaning not only does the sx have more tflops but each tflop is worth more than those in the ps5. It’s a big deal and it will make a difference but the ps5 will still be fine. It just should be 100$ less than the series x

[RaiderNation]

My only question is, is it possible that the PS5 GPU can achieve similar results just under different terminology? MS' version of VRS is one they patented, so it makes sense that Sony would use a different technique under a different descriptor. However I dont think we should presume that it automatically = inferior. Both GPU's could achieve similar results, just taking different routes to get there. Same thing with DirectML. This is simply MS' implementation of AI into the GPU, could Sony not simply have their own version of this on THEIR custom GPU under a different descriptor? I just think too many times we get caught up with these buzzwords and half the time we have no clue as to how they are actually used or what they really mean. Just show me the results. Then I'll judge whether one is truly "superior" over the other.

[Master-Tonberry]

Exactly this.
All this nonsense about the Xbox having "vastly superior" technology is ridiculous.
Sony is a hardware manufacture that has a long history in almost every field of electronics and it's Playstation division has extremely talented designers and engineers, including Cerny who is a long time veteran of the industry that is highly respected by his peers.
They are more than a match for Microsoft who have only been dabbling in there own hardware for a relatively short amount of time (albeit with some success).

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

I get what you are saying and as a person into tech I think it’s exciting to see both companies trying to go about things in a different manner. So to answer your question I think it’s possible definitely but at this point I think we would have heard about it by now concerning features like machine learning vrs etc. the main reason I say that is I have seen mark Cerny deflect questions about these features a few times along with questions about the minimum clocks in the gpu and cpu. If you got time go to the interview with mark digital foundry did after the first ps5 reveal and in that interview and others he dodges those questions.why not say how far the clocks can drop or if you have vrs ? But as always there’s plenty of things we will have to take a wait and see approach with like is rdna2 really amd finally catching up with nvidia. Rdna2 is unproven to this point but I’d say it’s definitely safe to say the series x has more features but how much of a difference it will make is yet to be seen. If I was a diehard Sony guy I would be more worried about devs getting max performance out of the cpu and gpu. So razor truth be told only a real developer or an engineer from Sony or Microsoft can answer our questions. I’d be lying if I said I could. The best any of us can do is a semi educated guess.Stay safe and covid free buddy!

[RaiderNation]

@Yodasfavoritesoda

Mark Cerny DID address the minimum clocks in his keynote. He said when necessary, "to reduce 10% power consumption it would require a downclock in frequency of about 2%." This would basically take the teraflop count from 10.3 to 10.1. Thats why it pisses me off when I hear idiots say "oh the PS5 is a 9 teraflop machine!!!" Its utter nonsense. If you want to shit talk about the XSX being more powrful, that's fine because it IS. But get your facts straight and don't sound like a blabbering idiot in the process.

Anyway, regarding whether or not you think Cerny is being cagey about the PS5's GPU abilities, Im not going to presume its outright missing features just because Sony hasn't addressed them head on at this time. There could be any number of reasons for that. All I know is the games they've shown off so far look great and I've heard nothing but praise from developers regarding the hardware. Ultimately isnt that all that should matter to us?

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

Raidernation
You are mistaken he definitely has never said how far the clocks can drop. You are listening to marketing talk. Go to 9:50 on this video . Wonder why he won’t say???
https://www.bing.com/videos...

You can choose to ignore facts all you want and I tried to be cool about it but if you are expecting similar performance from a weaker chipset then come November you are gonna be disappointed. Fake rdna2 fake 10 tflops the writing is on the wall ignore it if you want . There is no question who has the more powerful system and the more we find out the bigger it’s advantages are. If I was you I’d buy a series x and pick up a ps5 later on when it’s cheap:) from the looks of things that won’t be long

[Master-Tonberry]

@Yodasfavoritesoda

For someone with Yoda in your username you're very quick to lose your temper. Remember "anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering".

The way i see it is this. The XBSX has a power advantage but it's not so significant that it will result in much if any discernible difference in the end.
The average person isn't going to notice if a game is running at 2160p on the XBSX and "only" 1800p on the PS5 for example.

I do believe however, that Microsoft has handicapped the XBSX for a couple of years with it's decision to not have any first party next-gen console exclusive games. It makes sense financially as it lets them sell their games across multiple platforms, but it also means that every first party XBSX game has to be able to work to an acceptable standard on weaker hardware with a mechanical HDD drive.
Sony does not have this issue and can immediately take full advantage of everything the PS5 and SSD drives can do with it's first party titles.

[Edito]

AMD's CEO Lisa Su and Mark Cerny said it's RDNA 2 but the internet is willing to believe this noname engeneer that provided zero evidence? And even if it's not, if you look at the games they are developing and the level of quality will it matter if it's 1 2 or 2.5?

When we look t games from current gen do we think gcn or rdna 1? No we just at how beautiful or bad the games are...

So let's stop pretending to be engeneers or developers because are just gamers...

[RaiderNation]

Both GPU's are custom RDNA 2. However both contain different feature sets. Will that result in any discernable or appreciable difference on screen? We'll find out.

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

You nailed it. We have to wait and see

[derek]

Keep your mouth shut. This is precisely why they have NDA, to avoid any "misunderstandings".

[GordyNYC]

You can have rdna2 or rdna4000, it won’t matter much if you don’t have the development talent to take advantage of it.

[AmUnRa]

And now the same guy is telling on the same website that the Xbox SeX is also based on RDNA1 with build in RDNA2 features and MS own twist on the chip just like the PS5 has, he is all over the place now...

[FyBy]

I think so much people trying to put PS5 into RDNA1 or RDNA2 basket. But they cant. Its chip is evolution of RDNA1 chip into new gen with many features, that AMD used in RDNA2. I believe some features will not be present in RDNA2 that are in PS5 chip. So it is simply different branch of evolution of RDNA1. It is not RDNA2 branch, its PS5 branch. Sony put into it custom features for their needs. Why would they want to put shelf like RDNA2 into PS5 if they can build custom one with AMD? This is what they wanted. I dont see anything bad in it. They designed whole system as one functional piece. They exactly knew what they want. I think many people assume Sony technicians (and sometimes MS techs too :-) ), that they dont know what they are doing.

[Petebloodyonion]

I'll say it again
Is this important?

How about we let the games talk for the Ps5 and the serie X.

[Locutus_of_borg]

I agree, to be fair I couldn’t care less what RDNA either console is using , most of what I’ve read in this thread may as well of been written in Egyptian for what sense I made of it all .. I know which console will be day one purchase, I think it’s fair to say that the majority of folks here already know their choice of console , we will all get the games we want to play, regardless of the specs on paper .. a big thumbs up to us all ...

[GrizToof]

Does this at all prevent Sony's studios from making good games with lot's of content and interesting stories? Will this make it so AAA studios will stop adding gambling mechanics, loot boxes and micro transactions in their half baked, unfinished glitch fest games?

[NextGenCeo]

Amd official web page showing PS5 and XBX using RDNA 2 architecture. Mark Cerny saying same thing. But one son of..... Saying otherwise and you guys believing him. What is wrong all this people i never understand.

[OB1Biker]

It's the blue pill guy on Twitter. He's a bit of a con and people follow what he says like a secte Misterxmedia sort of guy.
Like it's so easy to google AMD.COM RNDA2 to be informed but then again they may need it explained with a comic book maybe.

[Rainbowcookie]

I rebuke you all in da power of the cloud. The same engineer said the Xbox series x (sub consciously sex..nice try) is also based on a custom rdna same as ps5. Why are you guys jumping on everything Ps5 ...oh I know on Xbox a backlog doesn't exist so you have all the time in the world . 🤣 ...right now I will turn the douche button off

[Binarycode]

PS5 is RDNA 2.

It is a custom chip build from that architecture with added additions.

I think many do not understand that SONY helped AMD design the RDNA2.

They have taken what they needed for the design they intended.

MS has designed their to fit what they wanted as well.

RDNA 1 is old news and people bringing it up are clueless.

[FlavorLav01]

I’m not taking this dudes word over what Mark Cerny AND Lisa Su’s have said previously. I’ll continue to be patient for addition console information we’ll be getting the closer we get to release. Side note: since when are hybrid chip customizations abnormal in console design?Haven’t most apu and soc for the last several gens been highly customized?

[343_Guilty_Spark]

So the XSX is still more powerful?

Ok good!

[SprigganN4G]

So, we cant compare the PS5's "10TF" to the 12TF of XSX. 1TF RDNA =/= 1TF RDNA2

The difference will be bigger than 60%, dear lord Sony...

[zimm]

If it is a true RDNA2 sony should just reconfirm it. If they say nothing right now it's pretty damning as we will all find out soon and it should come from them. Even DF hinted it is likely not full RDNA 2

[cooperdnizzle]

Dude you are way behind the narrative and shouldn't make comments if you can't read and comprehend. Sony has come out and said and shown many times that its RDNA2. Go read! You won't have to look hard./

[zimm]

Did you read, I just said reconfirm. I am aware of what they have said previously. If they Reconfirmed it would shut everyone up about this.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

But it's not

[Binarycode]

PS5 is RDNA2, Sony helped develop it.

Custom chip. Higher clock speed, fastest cache, 16gb of the same speed ram. Complete overhaul of an outdated I/O system that PC and xbox series X still have.

Nothing is going to stop the PS5 train. The machine is a beast of so many levels.

Unmatched haptic dual sense controller, Unmatched 3D audio.(destroys atmos) Unmatched SSD and i/o system.

PS5 is a game changer.

[galmi]

I salute the defence force, it seems we have peak sortie 🤣🤣