510°

PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X: CPU Debate – Round 2: Variable Frequency

Jon of RGN writes, "This time around, we are looking at Mark Cerny’s claims of Variable Frequency and a dynamically changing power draw for the CPU / GPU of the PS5 using Proprietary ICs combined with AMD SmartShift."

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realgamernewz.com
isarai1436d ago

People act like "Variable frequency" is a new thing and it isn't. Some modern CPUs have been doing this for a while. It's all dependent on demend, why use full clock if it isn't needed? In the end the user experience is absolutely no different, it just lowers average power consumption by not working harder than it needs to.

--Onilink--1436d ago

Its always working at a set power consumption (which we dont know how much )
So even you are getting it wrong by saying it lowers average power consumption

Games1st1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

Set isn't max, less than 100% will reduce power consumption.

--Onilink--1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

@Games1st

“ Cerny acknowledges that thermal solutions on prior generation hardware may not have been optimal, but the concept of operating to a set power budget makes the concept of heat dissipation an easier task to handle, despite the impressive clocks coming from the CPU and GPU.”

It is set, they have a predetermined budget and the frequency is the one that varies based on the workload. As opposed to the more typical method used by the SX in which the power consumption does vary greatly depending on load.

Though again, how the budget works and how high or low the power consumption is within that budget is within that budget is still unknown. Though if we take Cerny’s comment that the majority of the time the GPU and CPU should opperate at the “boosted” peak speeds, then the power consumption shouldnt really be lower than usual (especially at such high frequencies for the GPU)

bouzebbal1435d ago

I understand nothing and I don't want to.. Just want games that kick ass on ps5, and I know we will.

mkis0071436d ago (Edited 1436d ago )

But it is a new thing in that it is the inverse of what we already have. It operates at its full frequency and boosts down for a moment. Right now they operate at the full frequency and boost up for a moment.

OB1Biker1436d ago

Or more like, people act like 'variable frequency' is a bad thing

isarai1435d ago

Well that's sorta my point, we have real world examples to guage just what "variable frequency" equates to, which to the user, makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. Yet people are acting like it's some unknown variable that's gonna end up as a detriment.

anubusgold1435d ago

It is for high speed high action games it causes micro stutter in games that will get you killed. Thats why i manual overclock all my pc's i dont want my gpu or cpu speeds dancing all over the place i want stable frame rates.

1436d ago
ps3rider1435d ago

why people compare pc to console

NeoGamer2321435d ago

Blah, blah, blah....

To me, the games will tell us the difference, not a bunch of specs and marketing.

traumadisaster1435d ago

Blah blah blah people commenting on an article that u say is blah blah blah.

We don’t have games so we can talk about what we do know and frankly whatever else.

Generally changing frequency is in order to conserve resources, I prefer full wide ass open power and I’d buy another psu if it gave a boost.

I don’t care what my power bill is...the ac is gonna run and the tv and console/pc will run.

NeoGamer2321435d ago

@traumadisaster
I don't remember anyone saying they couldn't talk about this topic.

I am just commenting that no matter which way is better means nothing without great games.

CaptainHenry9161435d ago

I'm glad this is an opinion piece article 😃

Babadook71435d ago

It is different. Sony’s approach is different.

gamer78041435d ago

Exactly this is why PlayStation has a bunch of fans in there. I think they are trying to avoid overheating

MecheSlays1435d ago

My thing is whats the minimum clock? Just so you can kinda set a baseline of what performance is guaranteed to be.

anubusgold1433d ago (Edited 1433d ago )

The clock speed on the gpu will make a huge difference some NVIDIA gpus you can get 25 percent performance boost for free with overclocking. My 1080 has a boost clock of 1797 MHz I run it at 2150Mhz for the last 3 years thats why i havent bought a RTX card i dont need to yet. 90+ fps in all games at 1440p Most games run at 120fps. Cod and BF5 are the only two games that push it running between 90 and 112 fps but thats on ultra i dont set my games to butt ugly like streamers in multiplayer.

OB1Biker1434d ago (Edited 1434d ago )

Wow I finally watched the video ; what a load of rubbish. That's what makes N4G articles now?

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 1433d ago
waverider1436d ago

I think its a cool idea. It doesnt need to be working at 100% with games that dont ask for that kind of power.

GamerRN1436d ago

The problem is it can't operate and the proclaimed max for long periods, only short bursts. So the question is does it really qualify as 10.4tflops if it can only operate at that speed/temp for a short while before clocking down

waverider1436d ago

Dude, thats a lie. Cerny talked about that. It can work at max flops without time limit. This isnt PC turbo. Thats something else. Think a bit before talk. That wouldnt make any sense.

GamerRN1435d ago

@waverider

Can you link me to that source? Because I have multiple sources from devs that say otherwise

RazzerRedux1435d ago

Nonsense. Cerny said flatly that the GPU would run in boost mode continuously.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"Can you link me to that source? Because I have multiple sources from devs that say otherwise"

Now....link your "multiple sources from devs".

GamerRN1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

@RazzerRedux

Boost mode refers to the boost to the backwards compatible games... 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦 🏻‍♂️🤦🏻 ‍ ♂️

Like the boost mode on the current PS4 Pro

Oh boy...

Just look below at the quote from Cerny himself posted by @Sol4ris... Sorry bud!

RazzerRedux1435d ago

"Boost mode refers to the boost to the backwards compatible games"

lol....bullshit. You don't know what you are talking about. Boost mode is running at peak frequency or near it. All modern GPUs have a boost clock.

Here is a RTX 2080
https://www.techpowerup.com...

Look at the clock speeds. "Boost clock". Just like PS5. This bullshit about boost being for BC games is nonsense you made up because, again, you don't know what you are talking about.

What happened to all those devs that "said otherwise"? Ah...more bullshit you made up. Got it.

thtruth5741435d ago

Agreed. " Boost" implies that it can't be maintained or it would just be it's clock speed. So..... Also, thermal solution would not be big news if heat wasn't a problem. Why are we talking about a stupid fan or fans? The heat rumors are true. Face it.

RazzerRedux1435d ago

@thtruth574

"" Boost" implies that it can't be maintained or it would just be it's clock speed. "

No, it means when there isn't a load then the GPU will not run at boost. Again, you are talking about the same concepts used in PC GPUs here. This isn't new. A RTX 2080ti runs in boost mode when under load. Fact.

" So..... Also, thermal solution would not be big news if heat wasn't a problem."

lol....then Xbox Series X has a heat "problem" as well as it has a "thermal solution". What is this nonsense? Every CPU and GPU on the market has a "thermal solution". You are acting like these are entirely new concepts.

DarXyde1435d ago

GamerRN,

You make a dubious claim, then ask waverider for evidence that your dubious claim is not the case? I'm sorry, WHAT?

The PS5, as I understand it, can sustain its clocks. Basically, it was engineered with the higher clocks in mind and the ability to use SmartShift.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1435d ago
Games1st1435d ago

Right, there is also down time in games that doesn't need 100%.

menghina1436d ago

Both consoles will be ok , don't panic on freak out about it , both are well balanced consoles will run games great at least they should if devs are not lazy , just look at Doom 60fps even on OG consoles with tablet CPU.

Games1st1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

Doom is ridiculously optimised by a big team.

Movefasta19931435d ago

MGS5 ,Gears 5 look beautiful and run at 60, they can be done, it's just not prioritised enough.

Sol4ris1436d ago

""On the face of it, PlayStation 5 delivers a ton of power, but there does seem to be an extra onus on developers to optimise to these new characteristics. The question is, what happens when the processor does hit its power limit and components down-clock? In his presentation, Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively.""

This quote is taken directly from Digital Foundry.

Third party games comparisons between PS5 and XsX will be very, very interesting.
Only few more months to go until we will all find out which design approach is best. Can't wait!

Rude-ro1436d ago

Oh.. are all the comparisons coming back now?
Was sad to see it go away with the weak Xbox one getting left behind.
Amazing how things change.

Sol4ris1436d ago (Edited 1436d ago )

-War never changes- even if it is the deluded kind, aka the console war.
You know that, because you are part of it's neverending ammunition. D

Sonyslave31436d ago

Lol the comparisons never stop it just not talk about a lot since Xbox x drop 😂

Necr0philiac1436d ago

@Sonyslave3
So true. Some of the best at moving goal posts. Its like back in the day when they would brag about not having a power brick

chiefJohn1171436d ago (Edited 1436d ago )

Nah The X dropped and made people STFU about it 😆. Everyone that was talking about 40% more POWA! and spots of grass and resolution suddenly disappeared like the vanished.

GamerRN1435d ago

@Rude-ro

I know what you are saying! I mean, I remember when Sony fans bragged about power and graphics, and now THAT doesn't even matter anymore lol...

Sunny_D1435d ago

Lol you mean like how Xbox gamers didn’t care for power at the beginning of this gen when Xbox games displayed at 720-900p compared to 1080p? Now they care about power.... Remember Lens of Truth used to be big on this site last gen with PS3 and 360 games and Xbox fanboys would ogle over a little blade of glass or particle? Funny how they disappeared at the beginning of this gen now.

SpaceRanger1435d ago

I could have sworn people were crying early last gen to stop the comparisons. Then they stopped and now the people who were crying want them back??

Lmao OK...

xX-oldboy-Xx1435d ago

Let's see how 3rd parties like coding for all those CU's - they sure enjoyed it on The CELL processor. I can't wait for PS5 gameplay to drop, I'd also LOVE to see a KILLZONE go up against halo - KZ would wipe the floor with it. No doubt about it.

Will we then start hearing about CLOUD gaming again? ms has already conceded, they pushed the power narrative until Mark Cerneys 'Road To PS5' presentation. Afterwards they meekly announced 'they are confident in series x' - just MINUS the normal bullish arrogant tone.

PC loyalists are starting to understand the PS5, some of the people around here should too.

Rude-ro1435d ago

@Sol
Oh yeah? Funny that facts back me up..
Where did lensoftruth go?
Why did eurogamer compare to the PS4 to pc... then group up ps4 and Xbox one as a combo to not doing comparisons at all until the mid gen refresh?
Where is the media that covered these comparisons endlessly last gen?

Rude-ro1435d ago

@gamer
Ps4 fans still brag.. their games are a gen ahead of the competition.

All the Xbox had was a better dynamic resolution or 4k.... but frames took a hit most times.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1435d ago
waverider1436d ago

Not really. its really hard for both CPU and GPU run at max all the time. So there room to work.

1435d ago
RazzerRedux1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

"Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively"

Cerny also freely admits that the GPU will run at that frequency most of the time and that if CPU can provide power to the GPU via SmartShift. You are correct though. The proof is in third party benchmarks.

OB1Biker1435d ago

People are cool quoting Cerny when it serves their bias but at the same time ignore what Cerny said or straight pretend he lied when they dont like it.

Games1st1435d ago

2% down clock for 10% power.

hectorius1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

Sol4ris31m ago

***In his presentation, Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively.""***

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[3:51]
XBox Series X GPU Breakdown

GPU Clock speed LOCKED @ 1825Mhz= 1.825Ghz.

Now what genius?? Pro runs @ 2.15Ghz, XbX 2.3Ghz, PS 5 variable @ 2.23Ghz, wickel Series X= locked @ 1.825Ghz. Why would the RDNA 2 be so slooooow in the series X, when they are using the same GDDR 6 RAM?

Digital Foundry are clueless in the pay of MS.. Not hard to work out a RAM allocation with 16GB GDDR 6 RAM and a 2x 4x64bit cluster of Rysen cores. 8x 1GB= 8GB for CPU with 8GB for GPU in a 1:1 Heterogenous System Architecture with a single RAMpool, with no partition and both CPU/GPU running at the same speed.. Simple stuff a schoolboy could work out right???

[6:06] XBox Series X Specs: Memory Breakdown
16GB Total System Memory
10GB GPU Optimal @ 560GB/s
6GB Standard Memory @ 336GB/s***

WHUT??? How did those half-wits at DF let that one go by them?? Not only have the clowns at MS divided the RAM 10:6 in favour of the GPU, but they also made the CENTRAL Processor 224GB/s SLOWER than the CO-processor.

Just when you think things couldn't get any worse MS excel themselves in stupidity..

[6:31]
*** 2.5GB Standard Memory RESERVED
remaining 3.5GB for use by games"

So now we have plumeted from 10:6 to 10:3.5... No wonder the GPU is so slow it has a massive amount of RAM to deal with as opposed to the CPU.. No wonder the I/O -SSD is so slow, when there's a lack of RAM and what there is underclocked.

Seriously what PC owner would give a CPU 3.5 GB of RAM and the GPU 10GB?? "DANGER!!! That does not compute Will Robinson!!!" lolol

Sol4ris1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

Congratulations!
You managed to make yourself look extremely stupid, while writing an essay to drive your point home.

Anyone with a modicum intelligence can see you have not a clue about the subject.
Good day 😅.

hectorius1435d ago

Sol4ris21m ago(Edited 21m ago)
Congratulations!
You managed to make yourself look extremely stupid, while writing an essay to drive your point home.***

An essay? You have a shock coming to you when you go to the big school. What is it with all you Xbot cowards, isn't there one solitary grown up amongst you?

***Anyone with a modicum intelligence can see you have not a clue about the subject.
Good day 😅.***

Really kid? I gave facts and figures.. None of which you could even attempt to refute.. You could only try at a feeble ad hominem attack and run away like the little cowardly troll that you are.

Sol4ris1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

""Really kid? I gave facts and figures.. None of which you could even attempt to refute.. You could only try at a feeble ad hominem attack and run away like the little cowardly troll that you are.""

No, you gave conjuncture and then you applied your skewed fanboy arguments.
Get informed on subject matter before posting and calling others trolls .

hectorius1435d ago

Sol4ris31m ago(Edited 27m ago)
""Really kid? I gave facts and figures.. None of which you could even attempt to refute.. You could only try at a feeble ad hominem attack and run away like the little cowardly troll that you are.""

No, you gave conjuncture and then you applied your skewed fanboy arguments.***

I gave you facts and the Youtube video of Digital Foundry's review of the Series X.. If they were skewed then enlighten us, so I can re-educate you BOI!!! lol

Also look up big words before using them kid

***conjuncture
/kənˈdʒʌŋ(k)tʃə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a combination of events.
"the happy conjuncture of two facts"***

like I said, you have a shock coming when you get to the big school. lolol

What argument?? All you have done is try to save face by hiding behind ad hominem attacks

***ad ho·​mi·​nem | \ (ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem , -nəm \
Definition of ad hominem (Entry 1 of 2)
1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
an ad hominem argument
2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival***

***Get informed on subject matter before posting and calling others trolls .***

I am informed kid. I hit the Series X on GPU, CPU and explained why the SSD ran like shit on the Series X, if you cannot answer this "Sony Pony Fanboy" then run along and get your mummy or another grown up to take your place. IOW kid either put up or shut up.

Sol4ris1435d ago (Edited 1435d ago )

@hectorius

""Digital Foundry are clueless in the pay of MS.. ""

See that quote right there?? You are the one who wrote it, you silly little man.
That completely invalidates anything else you put together in your original reply (post).

There is nothing to answer for from my part. You simply do not know or you just lack the necessary comprehension skills to make an informed, intelligent discussion on the subject.
Oh, and since you keep pretending to be mature, perhaps you should learn to reflect that in your debates.

hectorius1435d ago

Sol4ris10h ago(Edited 10h ago)
@hectorius

""Digital Foundry are clueless in the pay of MS.. ""

See that quote right there?? You are the one who wrote it, you silly little man.
That completely invalidates anything else you put together in your original reply (post).***

lol you still at it kid??

***The question is, what happens when the processor does hit its power limit and components down-clock? In his presentation, Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively.""

This quote is taken directly from Digital Foundry.***

See that quote?? You wrote that with your concerned trolling and I pointed out that DF

*** https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[3:51]
XBox Series X GPU Breakdown

GPU Clock speed LOCKED @ 1825Mhz= 1.825Ghz.

Now what genius?? Pro runs @ 2.15Ghz, XbX 2.3Ghz, PS 5 variable @ 2.23Ghz, wickel Series X= locked @ 1.825Ghz. Why would the RDNA 2 be so slooooow in the series X, when they are using the same GDDR 6 RAM?***

comments were irrelevant to the subject as whilst the PS 5 is variable which can mean HIGHER or LOWER than 2.23Ghz, the poc Series X is LOCKED @ 1.825 almost .4Ghz SLOWER than the PS5, whereas there is only .15 difference between the Pro and XbX.. You brought up DF kid and I ripped them a new one. You haven't the intelligence/skills to argue, first you have to convince me that DF is relevant/ competent to talk about the PS 5. That's the way debate works.

***There is nothing to answer for from my part.***

Of course there is, your whole argument is based on what DF said.. Mine is based on what _I_ say and easily ripped DF a new one. I went through the gamut, of GPU/ CPU to explain the ridiculous RAM allocation and why slooooooow CPU RAM awa LACK of it will hinder decompression. I kicked your crutch away, now you either stand on your own 2 feet slither off in humiliation.

***You simply do not know or you just lack the necessary comprehension skills to make an informed, intelligent discussion on the subject.***

So ENLIGHTEN me genius.

***Oh, and since you keep pretending to be mature, perhaps you should learn to reflect that in your debates.***

Perhaps you should try to teach me BOI!!! You are the juvenile child who won't discuss the issue, you are "debating" jack kid, just continually making ad hominem attacks.. I'm not even enjoying this, I feel like a teacher picking on the special needs child. With humble apologies to any special needs children/ parents reading this.

I'm done with you kid.. Either put up or shut up.

Sol4ris1434d ago

Old man, you need serious help. You also made yourself like an utter fool. Just stop.

“ Mine is based on what _I_ say and easily ripped DF a new one.”

Did you type that with a straight face😂. Yep, clueless and stupid.

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70°
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Profchaos10h ago

Yeah it would have mattered especially since their huge game that year wasn't all that it was cracked up to be remember redfail was almost heavily promoted and hyped not to the level of starfield but still more promoted than the average game.

There was still a decent marketing campaign behind the game I'm sure millions were spent advertising it on websites and I saw a few billboards and bus stop signs in real life

jwillj2k410h ago

No it wouldn’t matter it wouldn’t bring in enough profit to offset their 100 billion dollar acquisition. It would maybe delay the inevitable by some months.

Profchaos1h ago

Pretty much no game in Bethesda stables makes cod numbers instantly even fallout 4 Bethesda's best selling game sold 12 million at launch and over the next 10 years climbed to over 32 which cod would do rapidly

CrimsonWing699h ago

I would f*cking think so. Good games are what draws people to your platform. It’s why I adored the 360 era with Gears of War being one of the highlights for me. You make sh*t games and it just makes your platform that much worse and you start gobbling up studios I like and then killing them off it also makes me hate your platform as well… just sayin’

franwex9h ago

Unless the game would’ve been War Zone, or Fortnite level. No. Maybe even Hell divers 2 I doubt would’ve been enough.

Exvalos8h ago

No it would not have, the ABK deal was great for Microsoft but horrible for Xbox. Over 100 billion dollars in acquisitions. That money has to be made back. That ABK deal essentially destroyed Xbox as we know it.

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