What Xbox's 12 Teraflops Actually Do - Next-Gen Console Watch - IGN

Welcome back to Next-gen Console Watch 2020, our new show following all the news and rumors on the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X. Last week we got the full specs for the Xbox Series X: 12 teraflops, hardware accelerated raytracing, and up to 120 frames per second. But what does that actually mean for our games? Do more teraflops mean bigger and better games? We reached out to a few developers this week to get their reactions to the Xbox Series X's power and some explanations of what it all means. Yusuf joins us to break down last week's poll about whether or not your TV is ready for Next-Gen and Bo gives us some insight on what features your TV will need to have to get the most out of Xbox Series X and PS5. Don't forget to vote on this weeks' poll about the features you want on the new consoles!

[Obscure_Observer]

Google claimed that Stadia with its 10TF to be more powerful than next gen consoles just to end up been destroyed by the Xbox One X.

And now the SX (in theory) will be faster than a RTX 2080 Super. O.o

Can´t really imagine what devs will be able to achieve with so much power.

[dekke]

pls google teraflops and stop being so delusional

[VenomUK]

‘What Xbox's 12 Teraflops ACTUALLY Do?’

I watched some of their video podcasts and some of them don’t know or understand the basics.

[Tech5]

"What Xbox's 12 Teraflops ACTUALLY Do?"

Flops is a measurement of a certain compute power. typically compute power is responsible for a number of hardware related tasks. it can be used for rendering and or physics. some microprocessors may also have dedicated hardware functions to relieve stress of compute power usage.

[TheSaint]

That user is literally one of the more deluded people that I have ever encountered.

[ApocalypseShadow]

It actually doesn't destroy Google's tech. I don't even like Stadia but they were correct in saying their tech is more powerful than **current consoles.** As for next gen, Google with their server farms could run rings around any one XSX. Single player or multiplayer game.

Google could build a game that crunches physics, graphics and A.I. for breakfast and just keep adding more hardware. Google's problem is that they don't have the developers at the moment to make that happen which should have happened at launch to wow gamers. Basically, beyond Microsoft's failed Crackdown 3 Cloud attempt. Because Microsoft was building a game that was half Cloud and half console. If it was an unlimited supply of connected hardware that gamers logged into to play from the cloud, Google could have turned heads. Like, Avatar movie level at 60fps.

But instead, Google went with streaming the same current console games we can already play at home. That wasn't going to turn heads. Another problem was that it would take a long time to make even one game. Like a thousand man team of artists, musicians, programmers, etc to build one game. I'm talking beyond Star Citizen level of money and manpower. Google was just not thinking bigger. Only trying to cash in on the game streaming model. Not the bigger, better and beyond any console or PC game model.

I know you like Xbox. And it is impressive so far from what I've seen. But one box could never beat a server farm. Microsoft would have to build bigger games in the cloud that XSX logged into to compete directly. 12 sounds better than one 10.7 in Google hardware. But not 100, 1,000 or 10,000 10.7 hardware systems working together over that one 12 of XSX.

I'm not a tech head. But I think others know what I'm talking about and getting at which would apply against any Sony or Nintendo next gen console too. I just know Google would never build such games especially if those games bombed, aren't fun to play and don't make a return on such an investment like what I'm speaking of.

[Steppenwolfmother]

Now I’m not sure but how would that server farm handle say 20 million people playing? You say maybe 10,000 10.7 teraflop machines but how far do they scale that? Could googles server farm handle 100m people playing games at 4K?

[ApocalypseShadow]

Who said 100 million would be playing that one game at the same time? You scale over time.

Let's say for example Google built a game using the processing power of 2 Stadia hardware in parallel. The calculations for physics, A.I., etc would be more than one XSX machine.

Sort of like when Sony used Folding at Home with PS3 systems to crunch numbers for cancer research. All the PS3 systems working together was faster than any one computer. Same would apply to making a game. It's the same when graphics artists use computers to make CG movies. It took many multiple computers to create Avatar. Like this
https://www.geek.com/chips/...
One computer didn't do it.

But that 200 gigabyte game or 500 gigabyte game or whatever, couldn't be stored locally on a console. It's a server game. You just remotely play it by logging in. All graphics, physics, etc are done in the cloud.

As I said, one closed system XSX wouldn't beat a server farm of computers. I wish I could explain it better. But I know it makes sense.

[rainslacker]

Google would have to be willing to commit that much power to a single application to make it something worthwhile for the consumer.

Using servers cost money, and when they're actually processing, the cost to run them increases. So, if say a console takes 500 watts to run 12tf for 10 minutes, chances are, a server farm is going to take that much, if not more, to run that same amount of data.

Just because they could theoretically render the most advanced graphics ever seen, and distribute it in real time to millions of customers, doesn't mean that it makes business sense to do so.

Each virtual machine will be allocated a set amount of power per session. A fever can program up to that point. Any unused power will go back into other tasks. If the current trend of next gen is 12tf, then google isn't likely to go much beyond that.

[SyntheticForm]

You're right that the Xbox One X destroys Google's halfhearted Stadia effort by virtue of the fact that Xbox One X is local and reliable hardware and reasonably powerful at that.

Apocalypse is also correct that Google's server farms could run rings around any next-gen console, performance-wise, and I'm very surprised that Google didn't put more raw power behind what they did. So, what do we have in Stadia? Streaming with 10 tflop capability at the mercy and whim of the inconsistency of the internet. How savory.

Google haven't, that I'm aware of, hired devs to build their own studios, nor have they acquired any studios to make games for them that you can't get anywhere else. Currently they have a meager library of games that can be played better anywhere else. Who is this for?

Anyway, I'm excited for Xbox Series X and PS5 as this is a true generational leap.

[RazzerRedux]

"Google haven't, that I'm aware of, hired devs to build their own studios, nor have they acquired any studios to make games for them that you can't get anywhere else."

Actually, they have.
https://www.polygon.com/201...

[Steppenwolfmother]

Google have created 2 game studios with pretty decent teams behind them. Will be years before we see anything though, if ever

[sprinterboy]

I see you don't read many articles, stadia has its own studios and it's common knowledge to a hardcore gamer.
I guess you're a casual who only reads headlines and not articles?

[SyntheticForm]

I stand corrected.

[SyntheticForm]

@Sprinter

I just wasn't aware that Google had gaming studios. You guessed wrong. I keep myself apprised (for the most part) but I don't know everything - just like you.

Cut the superiority act - a simple, polite correction is all that was necessary.

[Ausbo]

Yeah In total they have 3 studios. One in Montreal and one in southern cal that they just formed with the former head of Sony Santa Monica. They also acquired typhoon studios, who just made journey to the savage planet

[Steppenwolfmother]

@VenomUK I don’t think most people actually know what teraflops do. They are talking to and for the general consumer

[rainslacker]

A teraflops doesnt do anything. Its the software or hardware that takes the information spit out from those flops that does stuff.

[CaptainHenry916]

AMD card more powerful than the RTX 2080 Super 😂😂. Console gamers lol . I think you need to do more research. You can't compare AMD architecture to Nvidia. 12 TF on AMD doesn't mean it beats Nvidia buddy

[Tapani]

Actually, RDNA2.0 is most likely more powerful than Turing, or at least equal in terms performance per teraflop (sounds weird, but not all flops are made equal.)

[rainslacker]

Thought google was supposed to allow 14tf. Not that either next gen console wont be better, regardless of flops, just wondering when they said 10

Personally, since these flops are mostly for visual quality and visual performance, I dont see the huge benefit of having all that extra power for what will be output through a compressed stream. Anyone that's seen the difference between a uhd disc and a 4k streamed video can easily see the difference.

@tech5 above

In the case of XSX, the 12tf rating is the number of flops its APU has the potential to actually achieve. It's not the measure of the overall system performance. It's the same metric that was used for this gen, and is the current trend for rating console systems, or GPUs in general. Also likely the same metric that Sony will use, and it's a valid enough metric overall...so not trying to start anything or say that XSX is weak or something.

[Stanjara]

Developer anonymous. Hi my name is Mark -Hiiii Mark! I have a problem, I develop 4k, 120fps, ray tracing fur games, but I can't put my name on it. - Awwwwwwww It will be ok Mark.

[TheColbertinator]

It means that Microsoft is the savior of the gaming industry

[SyntheticForm]

Nah, just Phil Spencer's grin.

[sprinterboy]

The other day IGN said they no nothing about how hardware works or what a TF is or does, now they writing a article claiming what 12TF will do lol.
You couldn't make this shit up.

[Spenok]

Did they? Link please!

[TFJWM]

IGN isn't a person different people write different articles...

[EliteComments123]

lol

[rainslacker]

If they took the time to figure it out, I dont see the problem. I see people on here every time one of these articles pops up act like they understand what all this stuff means, when they really only have a cursory knowledge at best.

I think telling people what it all means is pointless, because they either dont care to learn more, or it somehow upsets their delicate relationship with their console preference.

[Father__Merrin]

Rx Vega 64 is 12.5 TF Vs Rx 5700xt which is 9.5 TF. The 5700xt returns higher framerates. It's not about TF bit it's a good marketing ploy tho

[Fishy Fingers]

Thats because they're using very different architecture, a statement a lot of people seem to want to throw about lately.

This would be a valid arguement if both consoles were doing that but they're not, its apples vs apples, so in that respect Teraflops is a perfectly reasonable measure of performance/potential.

Smacks of downplay in preperation for the PS5 reveal incase it's lower spec-ed.

[Tapani]

Consoles are using even better architecture than the 5700XT is. GCN is now for computing, RDNA was the first pure gaming iteration (including 5600 - 5700 + XTs) and now we get RDNA2 which is even faster and at 12TF. Series X will be mighty powerful. And pricey!

[RazzerRedux]

I think you are misreading what people are saying with that statement "people want to throw about". I have yet to see anyone suggest you cannot use TF to compare PS5 to XSX and if anyone has they are simply wrong. As you said, TF are meant to be used to compare GPUs of the same architecture. Period.

But what you have had is many posters who are trying to use the 12 TF and compare next gen consoles to Nvidia's line of GPUs. Obscure provides a good example of this in the first post above. As you have pointed out, and Father__Merrin's example shows, this is simply not accurate.

[Obscure_Observer]

@RazzerRedux

"But what you have had is many posters who are trying to use the 12 TF and compare next gen consoles to Nvidia's line of GPUs. Obscure provides a good example of this in the first post above. As you have pointed out, and Father__Merrin's example shows, this is simply not accurate."

Hence why I said *(in theory)* which you choose to ignore while taking my comment out of context. And please, don´t give me credit for that theory either. Maybe you should ask those that are behind it:

https://www.pcgamer.com/on-...

That said, I must remind you that you had no problem in comparing different GPU architetures making claims that Xbox One X´s GPU would be less powerful than a GTX 1060 four years back. You weren´t worried about "accuracy" at that time and we all know now how things turn out.

Apparently you are more worried about the possibility of a home console outclass your RTX 2080 Super than anything else.

I rather wait and see how things wiill turn out.

[RazzerRedux]

@Obscure_Observer

"Hence why I said *(in theory)* which you choose to ignore while taking my comment out of context."

Saying "in theory" doesn't make it any more accurate so no, not out of context at all. Sorry, not sorry.

"Maybe you should ask those that are behind it:"

Oh....I pointed out their flaw when it was posted on n4g.

"Exactly. I'm surprised at PC Gamer. They are usually smarter than this. DF made this clear even when comparing RDNA 1 vs 2. Now we are comparing two different architectures entirely."
https://n4g.com/news/232810...

And I referenced Digital Foundry in doing so:
"I didn't anticipate that Microsoft or indeed Sony would resuscitate the teraflop as a measure of a console's power - principally because it's not an especially accurate way of expressing what a GPU is really capable of, especially when comparing architectures from two very different generations."
~Digital Foundry
https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

"That said, I must remind you that you had no problem in comparing different GPU architetures making claims that Xbox One X´s GPU would be less powerful than a GTX 1060 four years back.. You weren´t worried about "accuracy" at the time and we all know how things turn out."

I've always referred to actual gaming benchmarks when comparing GPUs. That is the only accurate way to judge their performance. So yes, I was indeed "worried" about accuracy.

Examples:
"Proof is in the pudding.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
https://n4g.com/news/212676...
"None of this is necessary. The benchmarks are on youtube for all to see. Xbox One X is NOT close to 1080. It just isn't."
"Last I checked the GTX 1060 can run Forza 7 at 4K/60.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
"About the same as a 1060 actually.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
https://n4g.com/news/213020...

"Apparently you are more worried about the possibility of a home console outclass your RTX 2080 Super than anything else."

lol....on the contrary, I am hoping it does outclass my 2080 Super. That means the next offering of GPUs from AMD and Nvidia are going to be truly incredible. I've repeatedly expressed my excitement over the new GPUs coming out from both companies. I will happily put my 2080 Super on ebay and jump on the new tech. Options I will have long after you are stuck with your static console hardware. lol

@Kribwalker
"it’s about TFs and Architecture. RDNA 2.0 is supposed to see 50% gains over current architecture. I think the TFs for the SX will be solid"

RDNA 2 has a gain of 50% more efficient, to be accurate.

[Kribwalker]

it’s about TFs and Architecture. RDNA 2.0 is supposed to see 50% gains over current architecture. I think the TFs for the SX will be solid

[MasterCornholio]

I'm just glad that all consoles are using very similar technology. This is going to make it really easy for developers to take full advantage of them.

[TommyVercetti88]

Expect Halo Infinite running in 4k@120fps high/ultra textures with Raytracing.

[CaptainHenry916]

Also expect Halo Infinite not to be better than the original Halo games

[TommyVercetti88]

Halo Infinite is the first open world Halo its not only better it is more innovative then the original Halo games.

[CaptainHenry916]

Innovative don't make it better. We shall see what 343 got up their sleeves. I'm curious myself

[RazzerRedux]

You'll get 4K@60fps and like it.

[TommyVercetti88]

That's the X1X version fool.

[RazzerRedux]

lol....the X1X version will get 4K-ish with dynamic resolution. X1X ray tracing at 120 FPS is a pipe dream so.....keep dreaming.

[TommyVercetti88]

Are you the back of a baboons asshole? The XSX version is 4k@120fps with Raytracing. X1X version doesn't even support Raytracing.

[RazzerRedux]

sigh.....typo, Einstein. Obviously I meant XSX.

Geez.....MS and their effed up naming.

[TommyVercetti88]

Geezus Christ.

[SegaGamer]

If that is really what you expect, then you should start preparing yourself for disappointment.

4K, 120fps, high/ultra textures and ray tracing?......I would love to know how much you would expect something like that to cost.

[TommyVercetti88]

The X1X is now $299,99 so i expect the XSX to be $499,99.

[SegaGamer]

@TommyVercetti88

You're living in a fantasy world if you think you are getting all of that for $500. Do you have any idea just how powerful the hardware needs to be run a game at 4k, 120fps, with the highest graphics settings and ray tracing? Clearly you don't if you think this is currently possible at $500.

[TommyVercetti88]

@SegaGamer

12TF is perfect for these settings then combine that with better console optimalization. And you forget that the next gen is coming holiday 2020 and by then the consoles are already behind the new chips for pc from Nvidia and AMD. So your buying old tech for $499,99 that easily can handle 4k@60/120 fps high/ultra textures with hardware acclerated raytracing.

[Father__Merrin]

I think next gen consoles will be locked to 60 with vsync enabled. If it's unlocked or much higher the temps will be extreme in a smaller box mabey they will but I feel it's not needed.

60fps at 4k with staggeringly high details is all that's needed

[TommyVercetti88]

That's true 4k@60fps high/ultra textures with hardware accelerated ray tracing is not so bad.

[Artemidorus]

Video just loads and nothing.

[FanboysKiller]

What current consoles can't do compares to PC.

[Donnie81]

I’ll tell you exactly what it’s 12 tflops will do. It will lay waste to the ps5 in every graphical showdown.

[TheHateTheyGive]

LOL, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

[Petebloodyonion]

Is it I or IGN is beating a dead horse with the "what the Xbox series X will do" article?
It seems that since the reveal of the series X last December, IGn and Gamespot have been in awe of MS and been constantly putting the same type of articles but without new information regarding the series X.

[TheHateTheyGive]

Theres no real exclusives coming from xbox, no games other than 3rd party filler thats on everything.

[QuePasa87]

It's all just buzzwords and fake hype until the real tests are run