David Cage Doesn't Understand Human Emotions

Quantic Dream founder David Cage said in an interview that he bases games on emotions, but history shows that may not be the case.

[TK-66]

What!?!?!? You mean kissing my girlfriend won't save me from law enforcement?!?!? Surely you jest!

[rainslacker]

Maybe if your GF kisses the law enforcement?

[TK-66]

*David Cage starts frantically taking notes for next ram-shackled game idea*

[wheresmymonkey]

David Cage is the Tommy Wiseau of gaming.

[PatrickJS]

...I'm upset that we didn't go for that as our title.

[ZaWarudo]

Hey man, that's not nice. Don't insult Tommy Wiseau like that.

[Segata]

Accurate. I've been saying that for years.

[gangsta_red]

Doesn't understand how to make an interesting game either

[Battlestar23]

Detroit Become Human, Beyond Two Souls and Heavy Rain prove you wrong. Just because a game isn't a dude bro shooter doesn't mean it's crap.

[Knushwood Butt]

Gangsta has played all of these in depth at a secret location.

[Larrysweet]

Detroit best interactive game ever made

[gangsta_red]

Actually, those games just prove me right. Just because a game has a generic basic plot, bland characters, disjointed plot lines, blotted over used themes, doesn't make a game high art.

[Knushwood Butt]

Wiseau serious?

[JackBNimble]

That's pretty subjective, I only have DBH because it was free , not my kind of genre.

[Potnoodle999]

This.

[2pacalypsenow]

@gangsta_red

"Just because a game has a generic basic plot, bland characters, disjointed plot lines, blotted over used themes, doesn't make a game high art."

You mean like 99% of the games on the market that are consider "masterpieces", show me one game that doesn't have at least one of those things you mentioned.

[gangsta_red]

@2pacalypsenow

'...show me one game that doesn't have at least one of those things you mentioned."

I never said any game was a masterpiece concerning it's story, that was never my argument or claim. So why do I have to show you a game that has just that?

@gorillatactics
"You people are the reason game sucks"
Lmaoooo

[mandingo]

I mean 2/3 are pretty crap

[Notellin]

Yeah if the game combined the microtransactions of FIFA, the 2003 shooting mechanics of Call of Duty, and the boring open map of Assassin's Creed then maybe we could call his games interesting.

/s

[gangsta_red]

Yeah because if we put generic plot lines, overused themes, pretentious dull movie pretending to be a game and throw in a bunch of QTEs, that would make an even more interesting game

/s

[Question_Mark]

@gorillatactics

Since the game is a PlayStation exclusive. If it was multi platform or exclusive to another console, they’d be crapping all over it.

[OB1Biker]

That's why nobody is interested in his games /s

[Kostche]

exactly, dont worry about the downvotes, the guys writing is beyond generic, and every game he has done has had plot whole problems and writing issues, but people will like what they will like, regardless of how other people will see it for what it is

[Pennywise138]

Have you honestly played Detroit Become Human? Serious question cause I normally don’t go for those types of games but I’m about halfway through Detroit and I’m finding it phenomenal. Very interesting concept with some very tense moments and second guessing decisions I make. The graphics are also really good. I also really like seeing how my choice thread compares to the rest of the world. It’s free on ps plus so give it a try if you haven’t already.

[OB1Biker]

Good advice: try to see many different outcomes. Even if you can't play it all, at least watch what you miss.
For instance Hank, Connor can go in very different and many interesting directions.

[Question_Mark]

At least someone here knows how to speak the truth.

[TricksterArrow]

... He writes videogames. Fiction. It's supposed to entertain, everything else is trivial and resonate differently with different people, stop this f****ing crusade to make videogames more them they ought to be.

[porkChop]

"stop this f****ing crusade to make videogames more them they ought to be."

To be fair, that's what David Cage has been trying to do.

Personally, my problem with Cage is that he doesn't know how to write a compelling ending. His games start off incredibly strong, with an air of freshness and originality. But in the final 3rd the games fall apart when Cage consistently resorts to the cliches he worked so hard to avoid in the first 2/3rds of the game.

His games would be even better if he gave the endings the same care and careful planning as the rest of the game.

[TricksterArrow]

He is pushing games to be more like interactive movies, though. Not anything else. Which is arguably what a lot of other devs are doing, albeit in their own way. And... Movies are also fiction and entertainment at the end of the day. You want something more serious, change to the news.

Everything else you said is pretty subjective, so I'll give you that.

[T2X]

Exactly this! Sick of artsy fartsy morons reading way too deep into every damn story plot. Where robots are concerned, what the hell else are you going to do? I liked it.

[Knushwood Butt]

I think he is human.

Therefore, he understands human emotions.

Why?

[Soy]

That's not an automatic correlation. Lots of humans have no idea how to interpret emotions.

[AnnaDea]

Cage comes up with really good plots but his narration usually balls out along on the way.

[OB1Biker]

These journo do understand hate and how to channel it, I give you that.
'Cage creates a poorly written civil rights metaphor '
Also shows they dont understand much else though.

[Potnoodle999]

It’s so funny. They even traul through the comments here after posting to incite more hate and gather info on what works and what doesn’t.

[TK-66]

Tell us how kissing your girlfriend can convince law enforcement, who've already killed dozens of androids, to stop a massacre and become tolerant of androids. Whyy is Canada a safe place for Androids until you try to cross the border, and the clerk is convinced in the space of 5 seconds by foreign media in the background to act in prejudice against Kara? It's such a laughable attempt to create suspense.

Now Hank and Connor are actually pretty good, and I was beginning to think Cage has improved somewhat. HOW WRONG WAS I THOUGH? Turns out Connor and Hanks scenes are the ones the deviate most from DC's original vision. Its been revepaed that there was a heavy amount of improv in their scenes, so he can't necessarily take credit for the best parts of his story at this point.

You can enjoy David Cages games, but don't pretend he's on the receiving end of unearned criticism.

[gangsta_red]

"Tell us how kissing your girlfriend can convince law enforcement, who've already killed dozens of androids, to stop a massacre and become tolerant of androids."

Seriously, you can almost hear David Cage patting himself on the back extremely hard thinking he wrote something clever and enduring.

[TK-66]

@Gangsta_red

I'd say I was facepalming at the scene but I'd already played Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls, so at this point such ham-fisted story telling is to be expected. Doesn't make it any less immersion breaking or cringy though.

[OB1Biker]

Are you trying to say you can find debatable things in the story like in every single story be it in video games or movies?
How does that give any arguement regarding my comment?
Who is saying David Cage or ANY OTHER WRITER is the best writer ever ?
So if you want argue my comment, please do with no goal post moving

[OB1Biker]

By the way, the best option at that point was singing. Truly a beautifull moment and I dont care how bad you think the writing is for that moment
Edit
That's the point. There are many options and some will seem weaker than others

[TK-66]

"Are you trying to say you can find debatable things in the story like in every single story be it in video games or movies?"

If its debatable then you would've debated instead of just characterizing the authors work as 'channelling hate'.

"How does that give any arguement regarding my comment?"

You claim the author was just channelling hate. I showed some of the many valid criticisms of his work. Also if you disagree that it's a bad race metaphor tell me what are the visual features in distinguishing an android from a human? Because the one feature the game emphasises (the chip on the side of thr head) can be removed making them visually identical, and in effect rendering the race metaphor that Cage pushed invalid. So I guess I atleast understand making a race metaphor better than you.

"Who is saying David Cage or ANY OTHER WRITER is the best writer ever ? "

Fuck if I know. Who is saying that? It's almost as though no one has said that in this thread so why even suggest I or anyone else thinks he is or asserts people think that? Address what I've said and not what you want me to say.

"So if you want argue my comment, please do with no goal post moving"

You accused the author of just hating David Cage. I presented scenes from his most recent game that demonstrate he does not know how to write emotions in games. People don't become prejudiced from a 5 second clip of a news broadcast or stop shooting protesters because a couple started kissing. I gave substance whereas you are just characterizing people and refusing to discuss his game.

"By the way, the best option at that point was singing. Truly a beautifull moment and I dont care how bad you think the writing is for that moment"

Which is again just out of place. Not quite as silly until my friend sitting next to me starting giving background music to his singing with a Kazoo. The scene is so badly crafted it's painful.

If you don't care then don't engage in a comment section to an article that's entire reason for existence is criticism.

[OB1Biker]

You dont seem to understand what I'm saying.
I'm telling how beautiful the scene is and I dont care about what you think of the writing.
Please dont go on forever Haha
(And yea the,article is supposed to be about emotion)
My first comment.
1 clearly the article exploit the prejudice, criticism, even hate some people have about DC in particular. Here with a headline
'DC doesnt understand human emotion ' seriously? You find it good journalism or pushing clickbait?

2 they qualify the game as a poorly written civil right metaphor.
That's so simplistic dont you agree?
There are concentration/extermination camp metaphor in the game. They could just as well say the game is a poorly written anti nazi genocide metaphor.

[TK-66]

"I'm telling how beautiful the scene is and I dont care about what you think of the writing."

Then don't complain when someone offers an alternate view if you can't offer any substance to back your own up. You're saying you like it and it's beautiful and when someone says 'I disagree because of X, Y and Z' you're basically responding with 'Yeah, but I liked it'. Good for you, but that's not how criticism works, and it makes your opinion somewhat worthless when discussing the quality of the game. You can like something, and still acknowledge that it was poorly constructed.

"1 clearly the article exploit the prejudice, criticism, even hate some people have about DC in particular."

Quote the article and show how it's exploiting the 'prejudice, criticism, even hate some people have about DC' please. You need to do more than just assert that the article is doing something. Elaborate on what specifically you take issue with in the article and why (quote it too to help).

"2 they qualify the game as a poorly written civil right metaphor.
That's so simplistic dont you agree?"

I've already explained how the race metaphor fails. Androids can remove the chip in the side of their head and the trade-off for doing so is minute compared to being shutdown/killed. If you can't tell who an android is in public then there is no way of targeting them in the way we see early on in the game. Also another aspect of the game that's terrible is how if you want everyone to live you have to be a pacifist which I'm in favor of on principle but is not in any way realistic.

His attempt at creating a metaphor doesn't line up with what actually happens in those situations, and your Nazi comparison doesn't work. Cage himself said this was a metaphor for civil rights movements, so you can't just claim it's something else when we're criticizing him on what he said his game actually is and how it fails at that. You have yet to provide any substance to refute my claim and support your own.

[coolbeans]

"Also shows they dont understand much else though."

Our introduction to the 'black' playable character literally has him and other androids forced to stand in back of the bus. It's really not hard to miss that and a PLETHORA of other civil-rights allegorical examples. I'm not one to shy away from shooting down game journos' bad aggregate takes, but this ain't one of them.

[OB1Biker]

The point is the game is not meant to be a metaphor about civil rights. There are many civil rights metaphor in it (and many other metaphors). That doesn't make it the whole point of the game.
It's like saying the game is purely political because there are many political references.

[gangsta_red]

"The point is the game is not meant to be a metaphor about civil rights."

Okay, I'm really curious now. What is you interpretation or point of this game if it isn't the heavy handed civil rights angle, a group of people mistreated and oppressed by another class, it even has themes of the underground railroad but instead of escaping to the north where there is no slavery, it's now the faaaar north with (Canada).

[TK-66]

There's even a scene where Rose directly compares what's happening to androids to the black civil rights movement. We're pretty much witnessing denial of a literal comparison that is made in-game by Cage himself.

[OB1Biker]

I'm sorry but oppressed people aren't all part of the civil rights movement in American History.
Including extermination camps in a 'civil rights metaphor' label is just reductive.
Its heavily referenced but it's not just that.

[coolbeans]

-"There are many civil rights metaphor in it (and many other metaphors). That doesn't make it the whole point of the game."

I just don't follow the logic here, esp. when there's multitude historical moments coursing through the game. Jesse Williams-bot literally infiltrates a TV station to spout their demands: freedom & total equality for androids. That's nearly a 1-to-1 definition of civil rights. That may not be the ONLY themes & lessons to be found throughout its entirety, but I'm not really buying how a story can ape so many historical examples of politically marginalized people in the past (blacks during slavery era & civil rights era, Jews in Nazi Germany) and NOT come away being an allegory about that.

-"It's like saying the game is purely political because there are many political references."

I guess I have a tough time considering what "purely political" would mean in this context. What's the subjective threshold for political references allowed BEFORE someone can consider *x game* political or be a political commentary on something? Because, judging by how your interpretation of Detroit, it seems like you need to be inundated with political messages before conceding to that. I know this'll come off as a self-aggrandizing move here but I've blogged about this in the past:

https://n4g.com/user/blogpo...
https://n4g.com/user/blogpo...

[OB1Biker]

How do you fit the extermination camps in your 'civil rights' allegory?
That's two different angles. Yes it's part of a similar theme but labelling the whole game as a civil rights metaphor seems very reductive dont you think?

Regarding the political example, it's all about context. There can be many political references while the main point is not political.

Edit
I need to point out I live in the UK so I understand from an American point of view it seems different but that's just the mistake people are doing I think. It's not always just about America. Yes the game setting is in the US but that doesn't mean it's a metaphor about American history

[coolbeans]

-"How do you fit the extermination camps in your 'civil rights' allegory?
That's two different angles. Yes it's part of a similar theme but labelling the whole game as a civil rights metaphor seems very reductive dont you think?"

I'd argue you've just validated the journalist's opinion. It's important to note that the Civil Rights (capital C) Movement in America isn't the end-all of what that definition means. As I alluded to before, civil rights (lowercase c) is broadly defined as "social freedom and political equality under the law for ALL citizens, regardless of traits, creeds, etc." And what did Jews endure before The Final Solution was a thing? Discriminatory laws, such as having to wear special armbands (also in Detroit), and lowered social standing for nothing else than being Jewish. When there's so many real-world parallels thrown at your face for most of the game, I don't think that assessment is reductive.

-"Regarding the political example, it's all about context. There can be many political references while the main point is not political."

But you see where the issue lies then, right? How many references need to be there before one considers the main point or certain motifs to be political in nature?

"Yes the game setting is in the US but that doesn't mean it's a metaphor about American history"

I think this validates my earlier assessment of us having a different understanding of what "civil rights" can mean here.

[OB1Biker]

Indeed we do have a different understanding of what a 'civil rights metaphor' is as expressed in the article.
The game is not 'A civil rights metaphor' in my understanding. Also, in my understanding, death camps are way beyond the basic definition of civil rights you give, since yourself acknowledge that s relevant BEFORE the final solution.
It just seems a very American perspective of it. Not sure if the Eastern Europe community would call it civil rights, if you see what I mean. To me the theme is more universal and androids are perfect for it.
Ok man, I'm not in comment to try 'win' arguments. I just give my opinion and mainly criticize articles because we have the possibility to do so, fortunately.
I only see these back and forth comments as a discussion and fine with me if others have different views. I feel the article and the way they see this game are just not reflecting the reality I.e. the game is first and foremost a video game meant to entertain even if , of course, it's heavily poking at the reality of past events and thanks God for that.
Its proven many times, human beings dont have much imagination and need concrete examples of how nasty, oppression, intolerance etc can be. Its rooted in reality but to better entertain.

[coolbeans]

-"The game is not 'A civil rights metaphor' in my understanding. Also, in my understanding, death camps are way beyond the basic definition of civil rights you give, since yourself acknowledge that s relevant BEFORE the final solution."

But as I already stated, HOW did we get to the point of death camps? Through the gradual & systemic disregard of Jews' civil rights (lowercase c defintion which you can look up).

-"It just seems a very American perspective of it. Not sure if the Eastern Europe community would call it civil rights, if you see what I mean. To me the theme is more universal and androids are perfect for it."

I can agree it's more immediately understood by Americans, sure. But, to reemphasize my point, it's a universally understood definition that I'll link to here: https://www.britannica.com/... Even the subtitle of the game itself ("Become Human") can just as easily be understood as "become equal" when considering Jesse Williams-bot's entire arc. \

-"Ok man, I'm not in comment to try 'win' arguments. I just give my opinion and mainly criticize articles because we have the possibility to do so, fortunately."

That's fine. I think you're a genuine poster and don't harbor any ill will on what you think here...but this tone isn't exactly with what you started with. You went so far as to stamp your foot down against journos and they don't understand much besides hate, despite this writers' assessments aren't really beyond the pale. These are good fighting words. Which is totally fine. But I think it's better to not jump back to the whole "it's just my opinion" look.

-You provided pushback against something the author said (totally fine)
-Several people provided pushback against what you said and put your feet to the fire as well (also totally fine)

It's that simple.

[obidanshinobi]

I don't really care to be honest if he does or doesn't.
I really enjoyed Detroit and Heavy Rain was a good laugh too.

[Flewid638]

His games are great. Enjoyed em all.

[mijayire]

David Cage really needs to make something new rather than focusing on making QTE games all the time. Heavy Rain was his best works.

[zeroskie]

I've really enjoyed all his games so far.

[ibrake4naps]

Stay different and unique Mr Cage! <3

[bluefox755]

Wait, what? I want what you're smoking.

[Escamotage]

Ja-SON!

[Butters360]

Sure Jan.

[Segata]

He doesn't understand a lot of things. Like the civil rights movement or good game design. Don't @me.

[Father__Merrin]

excellent developer. his games are unique you wont find many games that are known by a name

[Kyizen]

He's not stupid though by making his last game leads be robots he can go well they are reboots that is why the dialog is stilted and the writing is off and the emotion...what emotion...robots

[LucidIllusion]

And you do?

[Question_Mark]

He doesn’t know how to make good games, either. So many plot holes and horrible writing decisions make this game’s story one of the worst I’ve ever seen in a video game. It’s no coincidence that Hank and Conner were the best part of the game; he had less creative influence with that section of the game.

[AK91]

I think game journalists are the ACTUAL one's who don't understand human emotions, well other than being triggered by every little thing.

[ajax17]

SHAUN!

[TheColbertinator]

Beyond and Detroit are ok but some people act like they are the coup de grace of the gaming industry. How ridiculous.

[good_sk8er]

I really liked Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain. Beyond was good too, but I just can't get behind Detroit. Kinda boring, and I'm never going to sympathize with soulless automatons.

[T2X]

Actually, the story was pretty good for the time. What sucked was the timing because it aunched right around the time the BBC show Humans was out and was extremely similar.

[0hMyGandhi]

I can totally appreciate what Cage is going for most of the time. He's super ambitious.
I would rather a game that strives to do something new and interesting and involved with changing how we perceive potential narratives within video games than something that doesn't even try.

[Steppenwolfmother]

While his games are not perfect the few that I have played were great games and I enjoyed their story’s. A few of the points in this article have merit but it feels more like the writer just doesn’t personally like David or the style of games he makes and blames that on other things.

[Good-Smurf]

I liked his stuff,if his game can make you longing for a divorced girlfriend moment in a frozen new york apartment room then that's unique and it's emotional.

[Master of Unlocking]

When all is said and done, at the end of the day...
...WHY THE F*CK are only David Cage's games scrutinized to no end while all the other games are given a pass for their more often than not dismal scenarios and depiction of human emotions??