Metal Gear Solid 5 – What The Hell Happened?

How did one of the most legendary franchises of all time end on such a divisive note?

[2pacalypsenow]

Open world.

MGS is made for linear gameplay, how are you gonna run into a boss and then go do another mission that nothing to do with it and then come back.

It throws everything off.

Plus it was unfinished.

[ArchangelMike]

The open world worked well, the only real problem was that Konami pulled the plug on Kojima mid-production.

[Jon_Targaryen]

You are aware this game has been in development for more than 3 years before Konami pulled the plug, right? Stop being a Kojima defender, this game had flop writtwn all over it since it was announced.

[Tech5]

"Metal Gear Solid 5 – What The Hell Happened?"

not enough bases to explore. GZ set a great bar for base exploration and dark mood for story.
TPP was also great. was expecting it though to have more bases like GZ.

[-Foxtrot]

Oh please lets not blame Konami here for that...they are to blame for a lot of things, they are arseholes but Kojima just made an average Metal Gear Solid game, that's the hard truth to swallow. Even if he had another year on that game it still would have roughly the same problems

The world was lifeless

It was repetitive, enemy camps just respawned like you had never been there

The loading screens was awful

Fast travel was a god damn pain

The epic boss fights were not present

The story was lacklustre

Snake as a character went backward (yes I know about the twist but that's another issue)

The twist was boring and felt shoe horned in

Sutherland playing Snake was terrible, he sounded bored.

I just can't believe people gave this a free pass and acts like it's perfect or amazing when it's the least MGS game in the main series. It was so average, especially compared to other open world games, it was reviewed on being a MGS game and being a game made for "Godjima" sorry I mean Kojima.

This game would have been better if Ground Zeroes was kept for the main game, that was the opening mission and the real game was actually a huge expanded remake of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake

[Palitera]

Most things worked VERY well.

The game is awesome. 9.3 Metacritic.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

It did not

[Knushwood Butt]

I remember the first section in the hospital being a chore to play.

After that, it just never really grabbed me.

Final nail was failing a mission, then getting respawned right infront of 2 wolves that proceeded to rip me to shreds when there was nothing I could have done to avoid it.

Never played it since.

[Name Last Name]

The story happened... Or, actually, it didn't.

[Psychonaut]

The story "twist" included as the game was from the jump planned to be the game before Metal Gear was going to be made and end it all. Kojima said awhile back he wanted to do the NES Metal Gear Games into next gen titles. and this game was meant to be the bridge title for the first next gen game featuring Young Snake going after Real Big Boss. But, well we all know the story. -shrugs-

[MrVux000]

If anything people almost universally praised it being the game with best open-world/third-person gameplay this gen.
What people had the most divisiveness was the story and the game ending (along with he controversy with Konami likely ruining the development and forcing the game to be developed for last gen consoles aswell).

[Teflon02]

My only problem was the story, but honestly every open world that's this free has had this kind of issue for me but a rare few like GTA, Horizon and so on. When it becomes too free it just throws the story for a loop. It's what ruined Zelda's story for me as well. I thought the old structure was alot better

[rainslacker]

I don't think the cross gen aspect was really an issue for the game. It didn't do anything more than what you saw with other open world games from last gen, and nothing suggests that it was supposed to be more grand to require more powerful hardware.

I agree that the story was probably the most divisive part of the game. It had potential, but was extremely poorly implemented, and incomplete. Just watching the mocked up ending that was eventually released changed a lot of thing, and tied up a pretty major loose end that was left by where it ended.

@Teflon

I didn't mind the open world, but it wasn't as much fun to play as some others. It was kind of barren, and sometimes repetitive.

[pietro1212]

The open world worked well that wasn't the problem. It's method of storytelling was the issue as well as Konami.

[2pacalypsenow]

Open world doesn't fit with the Story line aspect.

There's no continuity in the story, you just drop in and out and the whole story is all over the place.

It's prob the worst main entry in the series. Great game. terrible Metal Gear Solid game.

[pietro1212]

They could of made it worked.

[EazyC]

Surprised by the downvotes, I thought many people felt this. I will take tight, varied and intricate linear levels over this any day.

[rainslacker]

I felt the story of the linear games tended to have more drama and impact. Story here was much more broad, and meant more to define a point of time in the plot, than really advance or heighten the overarching plot of the series.

[HeisenbergX]

Lol what ? u serious xDDD

This game was a master of gameplay and open world.

[pietro1212]

As many said the gameplay was great, but it was lacking those MGS elements that the franchise is known for.

[2pacalypsenow]

Like I said.

"Great game. terrible Metal Gear Solid game."

[rainslacker]

Dunno about the open world, but the game play itself was fantastic. Certainly the best in the series. Outside of not being able to move over knee high rise in the environment after jumping over a 5 foot wall.

[MoshA]

Death Stranding is exclusive so it will have better graphics and gameplay. It won't be held back by Xbox/PC like multiplats. Also Sony gave Kojima the biggest budget he's ever had and creative freedom.

[pietro1212]

Death Stranding will amazing, but that's not how it works and that wasn't the issue.

[cooperdnizzle]

Pietro1212, That is how it works. If Kojima comes back with another master class game like people are saying, we will soon know where the problem blossomed from [Corprate greed] You have to look at it hestitcly, if death stranding is rough we will know that the magic is fading. It happens to every creative master mind.

I however believe that we’re not there yet with Kojima. He has still got the magic. How much longer? That is a good question. I feel he’s at least got one more in him.

[DarXyde]

Disagree.

The gameplay mechanics are fantastic and worked quite well in an open world. Easily the best in the series in my opinion. I think Snake Eater as an open world game running on FOX would've been the game to end all games.

I think there are a number of problems...

1. The game was made 1-2 generations too early. Had they waited, the world could've been more densely populated and alive. It was a pretty ambitious undertaking

2. Normally, story is not why I play games. I play because a game is fun. However, Metal Gear Solid has always emphasized story with top notch gameplay mechanics. They only delivered on half this time. It's especially disheartening when this was supposed to help the story come full circle.

3. Kiefer Sutherland. I'm guessing he was too expensive, but it was ridiculous that he didn't talk much. Maybe it was for the sake of the twist, but the exposition using characters around Snake didn't help.

4. The particular lack of memorable boss battles. Sahelanthropus was cool, but there was no big showdown in between. There no squad of supernatural badasses (no, I don't count the Skulls Unit). There was nothing like Dead Cell, the new FOXHOUND, COBRA Unit, or B&Bs.

5. Skullface was talked up, and seriously overwhelmed. I thought it was kinda cool to have a conversation that was not particularly amazing in combat and just very ruthless and methodical, but the lack of a powerful unit to supplement his brilliance was seriously disappointing.

6. No Solid Snake. At all. Seemed strange to have Eli, but no David.

[neutralgamer1992]

Kojima happened because he spent way too much time on the fix engine. Not enough cutscenes, weak bosses and barren open world

Konami gave him 80 million and 5 years so yes the popular thing is to hate on Konami but Kojima is the reason Konami don't want to fund big games. Took way too long and wasted time on new voice actors who weren't needed. That's why with Sony he got a engine and his game will be out within next 12-15 months

[DarXyde]

"Too much time" on the FOX Engine? Konami has developed, what, 7 or 8 titles from it?

Hardly a wasted effort.

[rainslacker]

Konami also assigned him to direct or produce three other games in the time he was creating MGSV. Zone of Enders HD, Castlevania: Lord of Shadows, which he came in to fix, and they made Ground Zero. And he began work on Silent Hill, which the PT demo came from.

The production time for MGSV wasn't outlandish for the kind of game it was.

Kojima stated he has never missed a deadline. Do you think he lied? Man is one of the hardest working developers in the industry, and it seems like most people have no clue about the production schedule of this game, or what is considered normal.

How'd he waste time on voice actors? the actual recording and mocap probably happened in a 4-5 weeks time halfway through production. It would have been required regardless of if they had new voice actors or not.

[rainslacker]

I think the open world could have worked for the series, it's just in this game, the open world wasn't that interesting. Some of the side missions were better than any of the story missions though. Ironically, despite the heat that came from the quiet controversies about her clothing, the missions involving her part of the story were often some of the better ones.

I don't think the open world would work for every story in the series though, but in this one, given that it was how Big Boss came to power....sort of...it worked good for side content.

I agree the structure itself was like most open world games, where the sense of urgency doesn't apply outside of main missions, but I don't really know any way that kind of thing could be countered, and it's really the players decision on if they want to play straight through.

Dunno if you ever saw the overview of the actual ending of the game, but it would have made the story so much better in the end.

[ArchangelMike]

Konami was the problem with MGS5.

TL;DR they didn't allow the game to be completed.

[Araragifeels]

Konami was part of the problem but also Kojima too. He waisted more money Hiring Kiefer and making an open world game, making Fox Engine (but it not bad investment for a new engine). They couldn't afford to bring a lot of original voice actor back, they couldn't make cutscenes so they replaced it with cassette tapes, missing boss fight, final chapter was never finished, couldn't add Cuba island to the main game and lied about, cutscenes that appear in trailer was cut out, Adult Chico idea was abandoned, somehow ruin Ocelot character.

[Araragifeels]

*Edit comment*

Konami was part of the problem but also Kojima too. He waisted more money Hiring Kiefer and making an open world game, creating the Fox Engine ( it not bad investment for a new engine).

They couldn't afford to bring a lot of original voice actor back, they couldn't make cutscenes so they replaced it with cassette tapes, missing boss fight, final chapter was never finished, couldn't add Cuba island to the main game and lied about it, cutscenes that appear in trailer was cut out, Adult Chico idea was abandoned, somehow Ocelot character changed in this game, Big Boss and Punished Snake had only few lines through the entire game compare to Ocelot, broken promises about side missions (repetitive and nothing like Ground Zerous side missions).

If only this game was linear then we wouldn't have an unfinished game. Konami is obviously at fault but Kojima desire too much for his game that the story was sacrifice for it.

[generic-user-name]

First of all, nobody knows how much money was 'wasted'. Kojima claims he never goes over budget when developing his games and nobody has proved otherwise. FOX Engine would have made them money if Konami had stuck to the original plan of licensing the engine to other devs like was originally intended. What original voice actors could they not afford to bring back? If you're talking about Zero, he had like one conversation, the original VA turned his nose up at their offer but we don't know what was offered to him. The cassette tapes were a direct result of people whining about there being too many cutscenes in MGS4, with cassette tapes you can listen and play at the same time. I agree boss fights were poor apart from Quiet and Sahelanthropus. Final chapter and Camp Omega, very likely to be Konami's fault more than Kojima's.

Kojima was not allowed to talk to his team for the final 6 months of development (crunch time, when tons of work is done), of course there was going to be things missing when you do something like that. MGS1-4 with Kojima being left alone were great, MGS V with Kojima being held back by Konami, not so great.

[rainslacker]

You're TL:DR is longer than your first sentence.....

[PS4Gamer1984]

As a huge, I mean HUGE MGS fan who thinks MGS3 Snake Eater is the best video game ever made period. MGSV was a GIGANTIC let down. The story was non existent, the interesting boss battles with amazing back stories was non existent, it certainly didn’t have that emotional wow factor like the previous installments.

It was just awful and so disappointing the greatest gaming franchise ever ended on this note

[pietro1212]

That's exactly how I felt. Gameplay was great, but it was lacking in every other aspect that that the franchise great.

[Jon_Targaryen]

I had this fantasy of how MGS V would be when I first saw the hospital scene with that awesome "were all beautiful people trailer". Little did we veteran die hard fans know that this was going to be the biggest middle finger to the hardcore fans, seeing this game was made for casual new comers who never even followed the series anyways. Its them who usually say this game is great, seeing they dont kbow the lore anyways.

I headcanoned the whole mgs v just to make sense of everything.

[Dreamcatcher45]

I'm a huge MGS fan as well, and I loved the beginning of it when u were saving McDonell Miller, but as the hours went pass it just felt less and less like MGS and more like you were some random guy doing rescue missions.

The mission when you had to rescue two CIA agents is when I turned off the game and never went back, and I concider MGS 1 the best game ever made.

[salmonade]

Well I thought MGSV was awesome. I rated it a 10/10. I put in around 200 hours into it. Also, I NEVER played any of the other Metal Gear Sold games except Ground Zeroes (single mission game). So that was what I thought about it being a newcomer into the franchise.

[generic-user-name]

I'm in the same boat as you, I still think MGSV has the best stealth gameplay of any game out there, but boy was it disappointing as a long time MGS fan. Quiet was ok, at least she got a full arc, but Chico getting cut, Liquid, Skull Face, Miller's weird end, the awful twist...so much felt unfinished and rushed. Ground Zeroes showed such promise too.

[DethWish]

I bet there were plans for alot more cutscenes and Sutherland but I think that was cut as well

[Jon_Targaryen]

I remember reading BS back in the day where Kojima or someone at Kojima productions said they got Sutherland for mocap purposes and for the cutscenes, I recall the word "experienced" was thrown out there. That turned out to be a lie too. Troy Baker said the mocap was already done wehn they did the voice acting. Fudging liars

[DethWish]

I dont think it was a lie, I think they had the plans but Konami forced them to throw it away

[Movefasta1993]

The gameplay is masterful I highly disagree with this, gameplay reigns supreme that’s why I can play a game like this jump in any time and have a blast . Mgs4 still the goat tho

[2pacalypsenow]

I don't think anyone whose a fan of MGS disputes the gameplay is good.

Its the fact that it feels nothing like a MGS game and the story was trash.

[Chaos_Order]

I'm a huge MG fan, have been since MGS on the PS1, and I think TPP's gameplay is lackluster. If it was its own IP and not Metal Gear, I would've given up on it much, much sooner.

[salmonade]

Gameplay was awesome I agree

[HeisenbergX]

What happened ? Konami happened and instead of a masterpiece we got a pretty amazing and badass game.

[DEEBO]

I'm playing it again right now.

Best stealth gameplay hands down, probably best open world gameplay too.

They didn't let him finish the game and it still is better then a lot of games out right now.

[GoldeneyeOO7]

...Said by no true gamer ever.

[Bwremjoe]

Should I say it too, then? I love this game. 3rd playthrough this year. :)

[Dreamcatcher45]

I hated the stealth gameplay. I didn't think balloon thing on downed enemies worked either. I like that you have to hide the bodies instead.

[kevnb]

It wasnt really finished, but still awesome for what it was.

[proudly_X]

MGSV was a colossal disaster (Fullstop)

-End-

[SegaSaturn669]

I REALLY liked this game. It was disjointed and I definitely felt disconnected at times, but all in all it was a pleasure to play.

[Kumakai]

Got too weird and esoteric for me. Used to just be about sneaking around using smokes to find lasers. Now there are burning ghost whales, creepy robot things and ballooning sheep... it’s like if a tv show started off as an episode of Friends but ended as Twin Peaks.

[pietro1212]

Idk it got kind of weird in MGS1

[yeahokwhatever]

ummmm MGS is a really, really weird franchise. From day 1. Psycho Mantis breaks the 4th wall and tells you to put the controller down so he can move it with his mind. There's smoke and lasers, too. But lots of really weird things going on.

[TheColbertinator]

MGSV was awesome but not the best MGS game at all.

[Batchild27]

What happened was it wasn't a MGS game. It was a half baked open world game to fit the trends of the time with the MGS name slapped on it. It should have been called MGS Peace Walker: The Phantom Pain.

[pietro1212]

That would be an insult to Peace Walker aka the second best MGS title.

[Batchild27]

But at least it would have more in common with it. The recruiting and base building nonsense. There is a place for that. On a handheld you can check in on and check off boxes. The Mainline games are for cinematic adventures.

[Orionsangel]

I wanted to like MGS5 but it became one of those games where I was confused about where to go next. What's the main mission? What are the side missions? It's all pretty messy and cryptic. So I lost interest and stopped playing.

Now take a brilliant game like AC Odyssey where you know exactly what everything is on the map and know exactly where to go and what the main mission and side quest are. This makes the game so addictive.

[pietro1212]

Huh, did you actually play it?It was pretty straight forward. Main missions were separated from side missions by menus. You weren't just dropped off with no sense of direction. The goal post for the objectives or general area was marked on the map.
Sounds like you just wanted a game that held your hand at all times.

[Orionsangel]

I probably do prefer games that hold my hand, but the menus were confusing in MGS5 and the overworld maps weren't labeled very well.

I have played the game just not recently. You can check my Twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/video...

Recently I beat Shadow of the Tomb Raider, God of War, RDR2, Dark Souls 3. You can check my Twitch archives. Those games were easy to navigate through. You gotta admit MGS5 is not for everyone.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Too Quiet

[SovereignSnaKe]

~The game was possibly the biggest disappointment of the Twenty-teens and a bitter end for my favorite series. Also, what the hell happened with the reviews? All those 9's and 10's; IGN even calling it a "Masterpiece." That was equally as shameful as Konami hocking an appallingly unfinished game onto the masses.

[salmonade]

I personally rated the game a 10/10. Was friggin awesome game.

[Eidolon]

I liked it enough to buy it after renting it, to finish it. Lol. But only other MGS I ever finished was MGS1, and TBH, that was a better, more memorable experience.

[SamPao]

maybe, just maybe its because the vast majority just loves the game :))

[LoveSpuds]

Personally, I flipping loved MGS5, I got a good 100 hours or more out of that game.

[salmonade]

You know, true story, I didn't realise how much I played of the game until I got my PSN:movie things stating your PS4 stats. MGSV was my 2nd most played game at around 200 hours lol. I was pretty shocked. I loved the game. 10/10

[cooperdnizzle]

They want another metal gear game? Say the story is incomplete? False we know the story very well. MGS ended with 4. One of the greatest games ever made! End of story.

[Youngindy21]

I actually liked MGS V a lot. I might go back and replay it one day. It's one of those good games that people just love to hate.

[AK91]

Konami

[StormSailor]

The gameplay is perfect what missing was what Kojima does best, a good narrative and many hours of cutscene filling a great story. In the end I think Konami was responsible for cutting content

[Count_Bakula]

Fact is, Kojima already did a lot of things R* just got praised for (most of it even better, like insanely free approach to missions), and that was three years ago, not counting development time. The difference? Narrative. R* gets away with tons of crap because they write awesome stories ("wow them in the end," as Brian Cox says in Adaptation) where people don't think Kojima delivered on the narrative front, so that affects the entire opinion of the whole game.

You could shower and wipe the stink off you in MGSV, no one really mentions it. R* puts in a similar thing, everyone flips out and says it's the evolution of the open-world genre. Give me a break. The game itself was fantastic.

[salmonade]

THIS IS THE HONEST TRUTH. I've never played any of the Metal Gear Solid games. Ever. I played MGSV for the first time about 6 months ago (I played Ground Zeros too).

I put in just over 200 hours. I f**king loved it. I rate the game a 10 out of 10. I had so much fun. I got all the S-rankings too, but I didn't get the Platinum... it looked like too much of a slog. I. LOVED. THIS. GAME. So friggin good.

[Father__Merrin]

It went multiplat

[pietro1212]

Not the reason, but okay.

[Petebloodyonion]

The real question is how come nobody blamed the media about the tons of 10 this game received?

Well, It's innovative in structure...
BS It follows the same mission format as Peace Walker.

The wold is completely empty and resets every time you go back to Motherbase.
It's quite repetitive in term of mission like infiltrating the same base numerous time with a different objective (save X prisoner, Destroy Radar, etc.).

But hey it's award a 10 from everyone even on Youtube

At the same time, what game had a better world in term of population, animals, graphics, and things to do
Also having the same approach your mission the way you want
Also, praise for the main story
But only scored average 8 in the Media?

Of course, it's your average Ubisoft Farcry 4 game
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Warpaint]

The open world totally sucked. It was copy pasted from Far Cry 2, a game from 2008: big map with small bases throughout, everyone wants to shoot you on sight.
Plus, it was Peace Walker on steroids. Peace Walker was decent but it wasn't our usual Tactical Espionage Action... hell, Ground Zeroes had more cohesion than TPP. (plus way more scenario detail, which shows how much they could do on a smaller scale, but still with tons of freedom).
What saved it from pure disaster was the fact that it has the best stealth based gameplay we've seen so far, anywhere. It's seriously addicting. However, there's only so many side ops someone can do before getting tired.

[Edito]

Konami happened, Kojima wanted to go the open world way and it sucked big time...

[philm87]

Amazing game. Don't know why people say it was unfinished, of course there's a lot of things going to be left open when you have a game set in the middle of a larger story.

[Chaos_Order]

A lot of people say "the games story wasn't very good but the gameplay is amazing!" Sorry, but I heavily my disagree. The open world is utterly terrible, nothing to do in it, broken flow, you spend a lot of your time either in a chopper ride or running a barren wasteland to get to the mission location. The enemy settlements aren't well designed and give the world no cohesion. There are no NPCs or interesting side content to do, absolutely no reason to explore, and while the base mechanics work very well it feels little more than "a place with enemies" rather than an interesting trek through something that makes sense. Ground Zeroes at least felt like there was love and care poured into its design, with multiple viable routes through the area offering different challenges.

Also, the game once kicked me to the start of the mission losing me nearly an hour of time simply because, when told to "GET OUT OF THERE!" when Salehanthropus first shows up I did exactly that, summoned my horse, sped away as fast as possible, and then suddenly "YOU LEFT THE MISSION AREA." Not even a checkpoint, a full restart. Also the intro sequence was cringe worthy beyond belief and while you can experiment with different ways of dispatching foes it's not any better than previous games in the series and can actually be hindered because you have a limited inventory. It feels soulless, as if barely any effort was put into it. 6/10 on gameplay alone.

[TheEroica]

Mgs 5 is the worst open world game I played all gen.... And it probably had the best gameplay mechanics of any game I played all gen.

[chiefJohn117]

I didn't even make it out the hospital lol I turn it off. Been along time since I had played MGS (2 gens) and thought I'd get back into it.

[Tetsujin]

*Puts on tin foil hat*
Kojima intentionally made 5 a bad game to show how tired he is of the series, regardless of who signs his paychecks (Konami at the time). To turn a linear game into open world, is asking for too much; especially when the creator (of Solid) himself says "no" but your boss says "yes." Either turn a masterpiece into trash to prove a point; or make the best game possible at the expense of being asked to repeat the same style again.

What the actual question should be; is Kojima at fault for intentionally ruining a fan favorite due to being finished with a series, or is Konami at fault for feeding into the fan base and forcing something they knew themselves would divide the community? One thing everyone can agree one - as players progress through the game, it shows Kojima was already tired of the game because his vision couldn't be made, but their (Konami) vision was.
*Takes off tin foil hat*

I didn't bother playing TPP because honestly Ground Zeros was enough for what little the game had. I still have 5 in my download queue due to being free on Plus, and might play it once all the hype and bickering dies off.

[FallenAngel1984]

This started getting divisive when David Hayter got replaced