Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice VR Won’t Support PSVR and it has Nothing to do with Microsoft

Earlier today Ninja Theory revealed quite the interesting bit of news: Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice would be coming to VR devices such as Vive and Oculus Rift on July 31.

Oddly enough, PSVR support wasn’t mentioned, which immediately caused an uproar. Before you think the worst, this decision has nothing to do with Microsoft’s acquisition on the company.

[UltraNova]

Ok I think I'm not alone in saying this but where is the harm(in case they are trying to conceal the truth) in admitting that now that they are owned by MS they wont develop a VR version of Hellblade for their main competitor? Its only logical and business as usual!

As for their reasoning, I mean they could drop the quality down to a level suitable to run on PSVR and no one would criticize them...

[porkChop]

"I mean they could drop the quality down to a level suitable to run on PSVR"

That's if they *can* do that. It might not be possible.

The bigger problem is the 360 degree tracking. The PSVR doesn't support it because it only has 1 camera. That's a limitation that can't be worked around.

[UltraNova]

Games like Farpoint prove it can be done. 360 tracking is a choice not a prerequisite.

[1-pwnsause-1]

I thought that’s what the lights on the PSVR are for, to compensate for that...

[rainslacker]

It'd require a redesign of the camera work. It's not like other games that have 360 degree motion can't manage it. I mean, Skyrim is fully playable, and it uses a traditional camera.

That being said, since there are likely no resources available to make a PSVR version, then its not going to happen. It'd be quite the job to get the visual quality to a point that is possible on the PS4, plus redesign a camera system.

I have a feeling that these VR versions were in the works before MS brought NT. MS hasn't been a big supporter of VR outside of some API work so far. Since they likely had them going before MS brought them, MS was probably OK letting them finish. I won't speculate on if they were trying to make a PSVR version, or if so, if it was scrapped. I know NT has limited resources to do this kind of stuff before MS brought them, so I'm rather surprised that they brought what is essentially a update for a niche market.

[sprinterboy]

Dumbest comment today

[jjb1981]

It detects the lights on the headset so it knows when you turn around.

[porkChop]

Guys, the lights on the headset don't give you 360 degree tracking. The camera can only track what it sees. As soon as the lights or controllers are out of view or covered by your body/arms, you have no tracking. A second camera behind you would be needed.

And while NT could possibly rework the VR to use 180 degrees instead, they likely didn't have the resources to do that. So if the VR is 360 degree, which it is, then it can't work on PSVR in its current form.

[porkChop]

"I'm not sure if you know how tracking for VR works, but it's called 6 degrees of freedom or movement, not '360 degree tracking'"

I know very well how tracking works, I have a VR headset. It's called 360 degree tracking, and is a requirement for things like room scale. I know what it is, I've set up a 3 tracker space for an Oculus Rift. PSVR does not support it.

Being able to turn around doesn't mean you have 360 degree tracking. A 360 set-up has no occlusion, and that's not possible with PSVR.

[fr0sty]

The headset can be tracked in 360, the controllers can not.

[rainslacker]

The headset can indeed rotate the camera 360 degrees. There are lights on the back of the headset to allow this. Gotta be careful if you rotate too much not to get tangled up in the cords themselves.

The issue comes from if you're using the motion controllers, or using the lights on the regular controller. If you are facing away from the camera, then the lights on the controller won't be registered. A second camera facing towards the system would solve this, but is pretty impractical for most people to set up such a thing in the living room.

[Team_Litt]

The thing is PSVR is not a threat to Microsoft because they aren't in the VR market.
Minecraft, a Microsoft game is still supported with updates and DLC on PS4 despite it being an Xbox competitor.

Now imagine if they did update the PS4 version of Hellblade and it was subpar. How many people would be saying that MS intentionally gimped it?

[UltraNova]

Would MS care if they made extra cash on PSVR sales? I think not. In any case thats not an adequate excuse.

[Team_Litt]

The fact that do support their games on rival platforms PLUS stand to make money on PSVR version sales indicates that the decision not to support it was a technical one.

[combatcash]

It was probably a tech and time issue. May have taken too long to implement. Either way if the quality was going to drop significantly then it's probably for the best.

[TFJWM]

@Team_Litt "The fact that do support their games on rival platforms PLUS stand to make money on PSVR version sales indicates that the decision not to support it was a technical one."

No it indicates finding a way to make it work isn't worth the return they would get from new sales. Since it is being offered as a free patch I doubt many people will buy it just cause now it has a VR mode.

[Sevir]

I really doubt that this has anything to do with MS... They just updated the PS4 versions to HDR and some other bells and whistles added to it. I'm sure these new VR editions were well in the works after the XB version was complete. They are a mid their studio who was independent so working on multiple large scale projects isn't feasible, which is why the XB release came after the PC/PS4... And likely why the 2 PC VR versions are just announced.

They are staffing up for new game Development on XB and also moving into a new building. Put the time foil hats and ire down and just be Happy they are still making games

[rainslacker]

Threat isn't the word I'd use. But as of right now, all the VR API's from the different manufacturers use some form of OpenGL input parameters to implement a lot of their stuff. AFAIK, all of the graphics rendering pipelines for the major players is in OGL or some variant. Some stuff is customized, but a bulk of VR API's is the input commands. MS is making a VR API within DirectX which they want to get developers using. Occulus right now is happy with their closed system. Not exactly sure what HTC uses. And Sony uses their own API's. Google also has some of its own API's and probably aren't going to use DX API's for their stuff.

This leaves MS out of the development market almost completely right now, with HTC being about the only headset available that is open enough on the back end to allow for DX implementation.

That isn't a good place for MS to be, because if VR becomes more popular, it means that some devs may go for the simplicity of using both OGL for their main game because its easier to implement VR that way.

Over time this will probably change for MS, but they started late, and let others get a foothold in the market. The partnership with Occulus though may bring more DXVR stuff to their API's. I haven't heard anything about that in a while though.

[PapaBop]

Business 101, don't burn bridges. A lot of PS4 owners are also PC gamers after all.

[Jinger]

Well luckily it's coming to VR on PC as well then, huh?

[PapaBop]

^^ Well it's not coming to VR on smartphones is it?

[Gh05t]

By this logic why doesn't every game ever run at 60 FPS... I mean all they have to do is drop the quality to get it there. Who cares about quality if you get what you want right?

Maybe they didn't WANT to drop the quality. Why does a dev HAVE to drop the quality? They made a VR experience and maybe it just didn't perform to their liking on PSVR so they didn't release it on PSVR.

We are also talking about VR so what if they tested it and over and over again they couldn't get it to work without making people dizzy or sick because they just couldn't get it to perform better.

[UltraNova]

All valid points but we are talking about VR not a port on a console that has to show some level off parity with the other competitor's platform. VR on PSVR is expected to be of significant lower visual fidelity vs Vive and Rift, a game on xb1 is not on the other hand.

[Jinger]

Doesn't Sony require certain standards for PSVR? Maybe they couldn't hit those certain standards and have it still look at least decent.

I Love my PSVR and I'd absolutely love to play it in VR, but if Ninja Theory is recommending a 1080 for VR then the PS4 is likely just not strong enough. And just dropping it down to ugly blurry levels to get to a steady 60fps on each display just might not work

[rainslacker]

The only standards they require are that it meet a certain framerate(locked 60fps, which is then reprojected to achieve 120fps....technical thing but wouldn't affect the performance side), at the native resolution of the HUD(1920x1080, with the 1920 parsed at 960 pixels per eye).

For reference sake, the resolution of HDTV is 1920x1080, so the resolution wasn't an issue.

But IIRC, the game ran with a unlocked framerate that usually achieved 30+fps on the base system, and reports varied that it was between 50-60fps on the PS4P.

Given these numbers, and the fact that the game requires what is essentially the creation of 60% more screen space to accomadate multiple frames for the 2 eyes, the image quality would have to be dropped quite a bit on the stock PS4, but the PS4P would probably be OK. There are some other tricks that can allow better frame rate without a significant cost to the system, but since this game was made in a rather traditional way, I can't see NT casually making a VR port for this game, which it would be for the PC versions of VR. It would require some work on their part, and given their limited resources for the game, I'm just respectful that they made a PC version with some of the money they made off the game.

I really don't think MS had much to do with the decision to do the PC versions, nor do I think MS had anything to do with it not getting a PSVR version.

[zaherdab]

Dude .. VR cant work with less than 60 fps ... game barely runs at 30 fps on the standard ps4 for them to render for both eyes in 60 fps they would have to strip it down to nothingness .. lets be realistic

[Weeblordbad]

The arm chair devs on this site are just the worst, yeah they could drop the detail levels but how far? To reach 60fps (minimum which is still crap for VR) they'd have to completely throw out a lot of lighting effects, particle effects and trxture quality to the point where it wouldn't even look recognizable as Hellblade.

I said in the last article if the Xbox had a VR headset it wouldn't work on that platform either. The PS4 and XBox One simply don't have the juice to power a game like that in VR.

[Mystogan]

It would probably be irrecognizeable if they have to scale it down.

[Naposhh]

I agree with Ultra on the business thing. Spoiling a vr version for the main competitor can be so unproductive for them. Can they work around it? Yes, or they can hire someone who can. Do they want/need it? Not really

[Weeblordbad]

The lack of proper room scale 360 tracking, the lack of a GPU that can drive it are the primary reasons. Trying to lay this at MS' feet is so absurdly stupid it's insane.

They recommend a 1080 on the PC version for VR, that alone SHOULD tell you that it's not possible. Reducing the quality of the assets diminishes the impact of what it is you're doing, to get it to run on hardware that already ran the game at 30fps? You're basically going to have to make it look like a PS3 title at that point, 60fps+ rendered twice isn't trivial work.

[--bienio--]

Basically it’s all about htc vive etc:)

[InKnight7s]

If Polictical and PR ever says the x problem isn't about y. So y the the only true issue.

[Team_Litt]

So Playstation Brah is PR for Xbox now?

[chris235]

as a customer i don‘t care. got the vive and psvr, but prefer psvr. no purchase, then. their bad.

[Gh05t]

Considering if you already had purchased it for Steam this experience would be free, It sounds like it was more of a pet project for some devs than a way to make a bunch more money.

[starchild]

Given that you supposedly have a PC powerful enough to run games on the Vive you would of course buy Hellblade for your PC anyway for the superior experience. So why wouldn't you enjoy the free VR that that version offers?

[deadfrag]

Because he's just a big PlayStation fanboy and not a true gamer,simple.

[Platformgamer]

of course not *blink*

[JesusBuiltmyHotrod]

yeah this reads like a PR excuse...this is just how MS operates. Other games have no issue with PSVR and getting them to run, hellblade is a cinematic game it should be easier than a more gamey game.

Other games have done it , this is a BS excuse.

[Zaherd]

A cinematic game that can't hit 60 fps on a standard ps4 console not even on the pro .... for it to be a vr candidate the base game must have at least been able to run at 60 fps on a standard ps4

[Gwiz]

Didn't Microsoft purchase Ninja Theory?lol

[King_Noctis]

Ninja Theory is owned by MS now, so at the end of the day it is likely up to MS to decide. But since Sony had been hostile toward MS lately, I doubt MS would want this to happen.

[SierraGuy]

Hostile?...as in getting their asses whooped this gen?

That's MS's fault for lying and charging too much for inferior hardware all while forcing that Kinect junk.

MS is the hostile one and that humble pie must be tasting great.

Oh ya the cross play thing...waaaa.

[Melankolis]

MS has nothing to do with this. NT knows their place from the beginning.

[robleroy]

Whatever the case this does inidicate SONY is not high anymore in supporting and pushing AAA quality VR through developers anymore. Sony should have stepped in before MS took over and support NT with testing in VR.
I am not seeing many $60 VR game releases anymore. Bravo team was a big let down, and most releases are short experiences (some good ,some bad) for little cash.
Already the change of sony's CEO could be felt..

The PS4 indeed has little or no competition from xbox one. But in the VR world the battle certainly is not over.

I hope this is not because the new CEO is more of a finance manager than a game lover (nlike the previous). Yes PS4 sales are better than ever. But why halt the investement now, when you could choose to blow VR competitors out of the water when you are still upfront?

. I smell SONY is at it again (just like in the beginning of the PS3 era when they felt they did not need to invest in exclusives/games because of the brand's name at that period. MS surely showed them then)

Bad news for us PSVR owners.
Well I think its time to jump to HTC VIVE or OCULUS

[Kyizen]

A little pf A and A little of B. A downgrade of an amazing looking game would be needed for PSVR but they also arent going to put the time and resources in when working for MS

[blacktiger]

lol

[maybelovehate]

Makes sense, the game even without vr doesn’t have a high enough frame rate for vr.

[masterfox]

" it has Nothing to do with Microsoft" <-- haha of course not we believe you right right ?, is like saying I'm in a Burger King and I'm eating a burger but it has nothing to do that I'm in a burger king. lol

[timotim]

Yet Microsoft supports cross play, they have kept Minecraft multiplat on competitors platform, even releasing it on platforms its never been on before, they gave Nintendo the green light to put Banjo in their game. They also still publish games on Steam...I doubt a VR version of a game that's playable on their platform already would change things much for them...its not like PSVR is some kind game changer.

[SierraGuy]

OMG they've done so much!

MS is definitely a game changer.

Lmao.

[BLUEKNIFE]

Of course MS is behind. But to be honest we are not missing much, this game was built to be played on flat TV, so I don't expect a game changer from a VR adaptation.

[AstroCyborg]

too bad vr is trash

[TheVigilanteCode]

Though I admit it would be a fair assumption by anyone after the studio buyout and especially since it's microsoft (if not, EA), guys, there's nothing really sinister or any underhanded microsoft tactic involved here.

The reason is plain and simple. Outdated hardware. The PS4 and PS4Pro are not fast enough to run Hellblade at 90 FPS minimum for a recommended VR experience (Sony's recommended minimum framerate for a VR title, but they allow a minimum of 60 like DCVR). Even on the PS4Pro's performance mode, where it drops below 60FPS constantly, the game runs at 900p dynamic resolution most of the time (and sometimes under that at specific scenes with high particle effects involved).

Now, running this game at native 1080p (960 x 1080 per eye) at a minimum of locked 90 FPS, on a base PS4 or even a PS4Pro, is an IMPOSSIBLE task. Lowering the resolution alone will not get this to run at 60 on PSVR, image quality sacrifices will have to be made in order to do that, and since this is running on UE4 and not a first party engine, the final product will look WORSE than what that horrible looking Driveclub VR turned out to be.

The hardware limitations of the current generation consoles, especially their CPU cores which of 2013 tablet quality, and the GPU, which at best is and extremely underclocked RX 470 on the PS4Pro and a HD 7870 on the base PS4. This configuration on a PC cannot even dream
of hitting 60 because of the CPU/GPU overhead and other API low level access on console are non-existent on PC.

Not even the Xbox One X (same 2013 tablet CPU with a higher clock than the Pro + an overclocked RX 580) can run this game in VR.