Warzone #19 - Are You Mad About Square's Decision To Continue To Support Microsoft?

Torrence Davis of The Bitbag writes, "On this show we spent a lot of time discussing decisions made by Square and Namco to take popular franchises multiplatform. While it's great news for gamers everywhere, we try and ponder why people got so upset about it. Also on this show:

- Rumor: EA in talks with Nvidia…hmmmm
- Torrence thinks there are more PS3 fanboys than 360 fanboys. We discuss why and debate it.
- Lost Odyssey and why this is the game diehard Final Fantasy fans should be playing right now
- We talk with Weapon X to try and understand the emotional attachment to a series like FF and it's ties to the Playstation brand
- Torrence gives Darkpower some tips for his new blog
- and much much more!"

[CEO of Troll Corp]

Dont care for lame podcast

[Fox01]

Then why are you posting here you l@m3@ss dou***e bag?

[red_ring_of_death]

its business
company are out 2 make money
bottom line

[AllseeingEye]

SE is a business and they want money. Sony has an amazing first party lineup so loosing exclusive SE titles wont hurt them.

[nbsmatambo]

People are acting like FF going multiplat is the end for Sony, i actually think this is the beginning of something better..I believe White Knight Chronicles is the first of many JRPG/RPG's that will be coming to the PS3, and mayb this will get Sony to realize that they need JRPG's to sell the PS3 well in Japan..

Im betting if WKC is a hit Sony is acquiring lvl-5 to produce more of the same.. =D

[mikeslemonade]

I disagree with the movement of more multiplatform games. Hiphopgamer hit it right on the nail in the podcast when he said that multiplatform disperses assets and effects the quality of the game. To me exclusives should stay exclusives. If you own all 3 systems there should be more reasons to own 3 systems and if everything was multiplatform then why the heck do you own a 360/PS3. Now Torrence always says 1st party should define the system but the fact is the 360 as you said has Rare the only 1st party developer and Sony has a handful more 1st party developers that's not enough for a reason for most people to pay $500 for this system and $400 for that system.

If you go to gamerankings or metacritic you will see that exclusive games on average score higher than multiplatform. The multiplatform doesn't benefit gamers it benefits the publisher so they can sell more software to make more money without making the full potential of the game. And i'm going to talk with my money just like Torrence does by bocotting EA's Madden. I'm only going to buy exclusive games to support the developer's decision of staying exclusive which is why this fall i only bought Wipeout, LBP, Socom, and Resistance. NBA 2k9 is the only game im buying that is multiplatform just because that is originally a multiplatform game. THe other games i'm just renting and because most the of the games have no online replay value anyway and i can finish those games without buying them. Conveniently the exclusives have replay value which i look for in games that I buy.

[juuken]

Mike, you have a good point. I also wondered why it would make any sense to own both consoles if the games are going multiplatform.

[meepmoopmeep]

hakuna matata

i don't really care, i just hope one or the other doesn't suffer because of the whole "round to the nearest denominator" crap.

exclusives utilize more of a platforms hardware, hence, it should deliver better output.

but Square is 3rd party and having financial woes so it's understandable.

[sackboy says hi]

sackboy says do not get mad, sony has first party studios that can match square quality or may b even better than square.

sackboys says bye :)

[Omegasyde]

We shouldn't because they like money.

PS3 users should be mad at microsoft for delaying games to be released simultaneously meaning ps3 owners have to wait a extra 3 months or more.

360 owners should be pist at microsoft for trying to steal exclusives instead of opening new studios to make 360 exclusives. Why not make the next great game instead of going after Tekken, acecombat, devil may cry and Final Fantasy? Or even worse why try to get exclusive downloadable content? How about more exclusive XBL titles??

Thier method of thinking is "illogical" as if they are trying to convert PS3 users into 360 users this way? Now it seems like they are forgetting about the Western Market and are putting too many resources into the Japan market. Halo Recon?? How about another stealth shooter? A exclusive arcade racing game?? or some Strategy games? Heck how about a exclusive FPS that isn't Halo.

[callahan09]

I would actually honestly admit that I prefer the Playstation brand to the Xbox brand, and I prefer playing on my PS3 more than my 360. I'm a simple man with simple reasons, really. The actual volume of the console running is quieter for the PS3 than the 360. I prefer the PS3's controller (and yes, I'm allowed to have that opinion, though I've read articles trying to claim that the 360 controller is somehow "objectively" better, I call it crap, it's an opinion, and I don't particularly like the 360 pad... oh well). And I love playing my games online on the PS3 without paying any fees. I don't play online enough to fork over an annual fee for the opportunity to do so on the rare occassions I feel like it (I'm crazy, I guess, and just simply prefer single player experiences... so sue me). I also like the XMB more than the blades-dashboard, but that preference may change with the new Xbox experience. I'll see on that one when I get hands on with the new.

Anyway, why am I saying all of this? To get the point across that not all PS3 fanboys (sure I'll allow you to call me by that title if you really want to) think this is the end of the world. Square hasn't developed a title I've truly loved since Final Fantasy IX on the PSone and they're quite frankly allowed to develop for whatever console they want. If they choose 360, OK. Good for them. I like to play games and if they put one out that I actually feel the desire to play all the way through, I'm perfectly fine with doing it on the 360. I don't see it happening, though. The only RPG I'm currently looking forward to is White Knight Chronicles, because, well, it looks awesome, its features seem awesome on paper, and Level-5 has never let me down like certain other developers (OK, I'll come out and say it: I'm looking at you, Square-Enix, and your lame excuse for a game called Final Fantasy XII. I pretty much gave up on you after that and all the crappy Final Fantasy VII off-shoots).

That's my piece. Sorry if you don't agree.

[Lyan]

What ever happened to enjoying games because they are good? The majority of you above me talk from a soapbox as if your biased opinion has weight/importance. Okay, we get it, you prefer one console over the other. Does your preference for system/franchise/brand really require that you snub competition simply because it is present? Enjoy your games instead of trying to justify it to others.

[Blakzhuk]

Great show so far! Jesus it's long!

[Fox01]

In this case, the longer the better. When you enjoy something this much, time doesn't seem to matter.

[juuken]

I don't care anymore. 3rd party exclusives are a dying breed. First party is what matters to me either way.

[Fox01]

Then you'll miss a lot of good games like, Fallout 3, FFXIII, Tekken, L.A Noire, etc. You should just play the games you like and stop worrying if it's exclusive or not.

But we know you're a stu*** fanboy and you wont listen to reason so whatever, we'll all be enjoying great games this fall and beyond.

[juuken]

Hmm...funny you throw that term around so often Fox when you're a fanboy as well. A guy calling a girl a fanboy...that's just hilarious.

I never implied I still wouldn't buy the games. I'm looking forward to getting Resident Evil 5, FFXIII, Tekken 6 and Dead Space along with Sony exclusives. So I get to watch movies, buy exclusives, and a few multiplatform games that interest me.

Thanks for assuming things, lol.

Hey, and phantom disagreers you're not doing me a single thing ya know.

[Fox01]

I'm not a fanboy, but I have to sometimes defend the 360 because of all the shyt I hear on this site: like some that had "5 360s RROD", "360 slapped my mom", "Microsoft is Evil" coz they want to make money, when all companies have the same phucking motives (make money)...!

If I heard the same shyt about the PS3 I would defend that system too, but since this site is full of PS3fanboys...

@UltimateIdiot911

"In this day and age where games cost $60, I think many gamers are going to try to pick out titles with quality"

I totally agree with you on that one. But, what might mean quality for you might not be the same for another gamer.

For instance, I'm a huge Rpg fan (especially Fable), so for ME Fable 2 is the only quality game coming out this fall and I wont mind spending $100 for that game. But I know lots of people think the game is garbage graphics suck, boring etc....

So, just play the games that interest you, that you like and don't care if it's exclusive or not.

[UltimateIdiot911]

In this day and age where games cost $60, I think many gamers are going to try to pick out titles with quality. I will still pick up FFXIII but I'm not going to pick up a lot of multiplatform. GTAIV and DMC4 were huggggeee disappointment in my book. HUGEE!!
I force myself to finish the game just to feel a bit more justify on that $60 purchase. So 1st party games ftw.

Edit: I agree, there will be few multiplats with quality (what i mean by quality is gameplay, story, graphic, the overall picture). Quality will mean different things to people but I personally find the best quality in 1st party. I don't have a 360 but Fable 2 does appeal to me. I'm a huge RPG fan also especially JRPG. WKC is the RPG i'm looking forward too along with Valkyria Chronicles. As for Multi, I'm looking forward to Prince of Persia and Spiderman.

[juuken]

Fox, and 360 fanboys aren't crazy here as well? I defend the PS3 because I'm sick and tired of hearing that it has no games, bluray sucks, whoever spent $600.00 on a console is an idiot, etc, etc. There's no need for that at all. Sony may have screwed up in the beginning but they're turning things around.

It's annoying.

[CAPT IRISH]

both you guys are annoying

[Omegasyde]

I completely agree I spend my 60 wisely.

If I can beat a game in less than 10 hours, its a rental or a used purchase at the bargain bin.

If a game comes out with future DLC already mentioned FORGET ABOUT IT.
I am tired of these developers releasing only 90% of the overall game and holding the last 10% back.

Latest Case in point, Starcraft 2. They already planned it as a trillogy so you know the 1st episode will only have so many new things...

Soul calibur 4 is a great game but when you release DLC a week after its release? what you couldn't squeeze a extra 100mb on the disc before going gold?

If developers are going to have that mindset, atleast make the game 40$ or lower i.e. Warhawk, Wipeout hd, Socom, Scene it...

[cmrbe]

I hate Square because they don't have respect for us PS gamers by lying to us for over 2 years about FF13 exclusives. They made a fool out of us PS fans and i for one don't like it.

Square should be extremely careful. FF is not a shooter. The bulk of JRPG fans are in the east and PS fans are not very forgiving especially if FF 13 turns out to be not as good as FF10 or FF7. Since it has gone Multi. I suspect it will not be anywhere near as good as 7 or 10.

As for them supporting MS that is fine by me. Square never exclusively supported PS.

[Omegasyde]

Dude they went downhill ever since the merger with Enix.

and the guy running the show at square is a idiot.

FF7 remade? No you guys get a movie
Chrono Trigger remade? yes with exact same graphics on a handheld
FF 1-6 remade? Yes with new movie sequeces, games still in 2d...

[Millah]

Yea dude Square AND Enix both became a complete joke after merging. They both used to make such phenomenal games, they were the two greatest RPG developers of all time. But now their games are such a joke compared to their classics, and even their classic franchises turned to crap.

What happened to every Square RPG being a big deal and always being amazing? Yes even the non-FF games. What happened to the games like Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, Mario RPG, etc. Now their non-FF games are such generic crap. Its such a shame for a truly ground breaking and legendary games studio to turn into a sellout generic Jap version of EA.

And Enix...they lost it also. This sucks because two legends vanished, they couldn't just let one legend vanish. You would have thought that two legends merging would create a company that was even more legendary...nope.

[Sony Rep]

This guy is a clown.

[Millah]

HAHAHA bubbles my friend.

[Rhezin]

Each exclusive M$ steals I bet each of you cry in a corner in a closet. How can you explain the 341234901238423 comments by you morons in every 360 thread? Simple, you're angry and you're all having an online tamper tantrum like little immature 5 yr olds. GROW THE F!CK UP. Hell I'd be pissed if halo went ps3, I'll admit that. See? it's easy! Not for droids though they like to hide behind they're "innocent-looking" comments. YOU'RE NOT FOOLING ANYONE

[chasegamez]

i have all 3 console
my 360 is modded
my wii is modded

so what
cry about what
thats 1 game im not going 2 paid for now
im playing fallout 3
and saints row 2 now

thank you 360

[Internet Trolling Ex]

That was one of the lowest quality Podcasts I have ever heard,not only was the actual content and topics atrocious,but the actual mixing and microphone placement sound like they were done by a blind donkey

[TheColbertinator]

As much as I like Lost Odyssey,its not even close to replacing a game like Final Fantasy.No summons and the character design is rather bland.I think Star Ocean 4 will be a much better RPG in terms of setting,graphics,and story on that end.Also White Knight Chronicles will be better in terms of range,dialog,and unique features.Lost Odyssey is an 8/10 game,no more

[DarkBlood]

yeah apart from resident evil 5 being one of the reasons i wanted to get a ps3 i also wanted to play legend of dragoon again because it was my favourite rpg then i discovered final fantasy 8 and 9 and tastic in the past my love for rpg evolve in the playstation 1 days as it was my first 3d console and i never had a playstation 2 things was different but when i was able to have a job when i got a ps3 because from what i know it could play ps2 games as well as ps1 and i wanted to catch up on what i miss playstation 2 final fantasy games and other great titles

in other words i really bought the ps3 to play final fantasy games because i love rpgs ff 13 going multiplatform was a shocking twist but it does not matter we got ff 13 versus and of course the ff 13 and most of our ff games are playstaton consoles and psp as well for nintendo ds remakes

so i guess 360 only fans are glad they are getting a rpg with name final fantasy in it as for sony only fans we are getting final fantasy 13 versus and 13 so what the hell is the complaint about other then making us wait till they get the 360 version done i dont see anything else wrong

and some of what i heard are right sqaure was never a exclusize to sony it was born with nintendo moved on to sony and now its sharing with pc and microsoft

so there i dont think square betrayed anyone in the first place

[tatsujin]

The whole purpose is to promote the 360 when people know it is going to get demolished this holiday. What else can you 360 ladies can do to support MS's plans? Lost Oddessy with the 5-6 Disc swaps? Old generation, Unreal Engine 3? Is there ANY real-time CG gameplay? ANY? ... please.

Here's what I think of the 360 and my reasons of not buying it:-
* Only 1 game on the 360 to play, Tales of Vesperia ... Not enough reason to buy
* Pay to be online? Even if its 20 dollars a year. No thanks.
* RRoD. Why the hell wouldn't I bring it up specially when MS refuses a whole bunch of people to repair their RRoD systems?!
* Limited hardware, on limited capacity and because of this system most games or should I say alot of them are being limited and so the PS3 gets sacrificed because of the 360. Hint hint, why you'll never see MGS IV, Heavy Rain, Heavenly Sword, Unchartered and other PS3 exclusives being on the 360. FF XIII is being developed specifically for the PS3 without a single look at the 360 till it is finished and burned on Blu-ray disc. In short, FF XIII will be better on the PS3 then on the 360. Hardware + Capacity are holding the 360.
* Current/old generation media. PS3's media features, and that is not just limited to Blu-ray, but the Media library, owns the 360 hands down.
* Most of 360's games go on PC, so I have the choice to buy it on my PC (Quad-Core, SLI-8800 GT SC enabled, 4GH 800Mghz DC OCZ Raptors, PN5-D mobo, etc etc). And if it doesn't come out on PC, then oh well. Too bad.
* Not going to purchase the 360 and buy its "extra" addons or whatever to experience "omfg the ultimate--" No .. Just ... no.
* MS bribes and scratches companies asses to get some exclusives to "promote" multi-platform. I laugh, very hard at this.
* I'm not going to support MS's 360 this generation because of "everything" it has been doing. Truely, and utterly, disappointing company in gaming.
* And finally, I have a large list on the PS3 from "bought" to "pre-ordered/interested in". Yes, the 360 does have good games, but compared to the PS3? Please ... someone pull out the exclusive lists on both sides from the past, present, and the future. Lets lay some facts.

I've got few other reasons, but I'm ending it here. These are my reasons for not purchasing the 360. The games can be as great as they can be, but the system it self is nothing like the PS3 or the Wii. Get a real system please. If the 360 was developed by ANY other company like Sony, Nintendo or hell .. even SEGA ... they would have done a much better job.

[rob6021]

Lost Odyssey was good, but it was no final fantasy

[CAPT IRISH]

not at all

[DA_SHREDDER]

And Im also glad they aren't producing the same crap on my precious ps3. I dont know why any ps3 user would give 2 sh*ts about any of Squeenix's games coming exclusively on the 360? Its not like they are producing any AAA titles, so its not like ps3 users are getting shafted from this company that is just losing money from this anyways. I mean cmon,, lets be real here. The 360 fanbase could care less about this move. Most 360 users dont play rpg's, just look at the npd charts. Not one exclusive rpg has made it over the 750,000 sold mark.

[Spike47]

As long as I can still get FF13 and FF versus 13 on my PS3 I'm a happy gamer.

However, I could care less for any of the other AVERAGE JRPGS that they release, might aswell buy some better average games like Dead Space and Saints Row 2

[adorie]

cool

[facepalm]

As just a PS3 owner, I personally don't mind S-E games going on the X360... But what I do mind is the various little things that S-E's says or does that basically tests PS3 owner's limits.

Like...how they keep on touting that they are "trying to be 'fair' to both consoles" where we see that the X360 has 2 Exclusives, 1 Timed Exclusive with not even a hint of the PS3 release date, while the PS3 has 1 Exclusive that we know absolutely nothing about. (Not to mention a multi-platform that was declared as a "PS3 Exclusive" so many times times prior to E3'08... And is strangely still a PS3 Exclusive in Japan.)

PS3 owners will have to wait for "Last Remnant" while the X360 gets to play, and on top of that PS3 will have to wait for the X360 version of "Final Fantasy XIII" to finish as well. (It is also not 'fair' for Japanese X360 owners as well, who won't be getting "Final Fantasy XIII" on their systems...)

People keep on mentioning that it's "better business" for them to release games on the X360 and I agree... But as exclusives??
Why don't they make EVERY game a multi-platform (no timed exclusives either), after all they can get better sales from Japan/EU via the PS3 and from America via the X360, with just the price of porting, which isn't much compared to making a full game. And on top of that they won't get the crazy fanboys on their backs either...

(And I agree with the statement about multi-platform games loosing overall quality due to dispersion of funds...or something along those lines. But there are many quality multi-platform games out on the market, and if S-E can make a "good" multi-platform game, as oppose to a "great" exclusive, it will still sell, since their games sell due to "name recognition" more than anything.)

So if Square-Enix really wants to follow their own advice about "being fair" to both console, make an equal amount of exclusives for each system, or make every game a multi-platform (no timed s*** either)... That way both fanboys clans will be happy, Square-Enix will get their money, and the world will be fine and dandy...

[Aclay]

Well, I wouldn't say that SquareEnix is supporting Microsoft, it's more like Microsoft has bribed SquareEnix with money and that's why the 360 has gotten so many JRPG's and has gotten so much support from them.

I mean come on, ANY Japanese developer KNOWS that their JRPG would easily sell TONS more on the Playstation 3 than the 360 in Japan.

If Metal Gear Solid 4 on the PS3 (a non-JRPG) sold over 600,000 units in Japan alone, just imagine how much those same JRPG's that were on the 360 could have sold if they were on the PS3... those JRPG's like Tales of Vesperia and Infinite Undiscovery would have been able to sell close to the Million mark or past a million in Japan if it was on the PS3 and it's obvious that Microsoft has been securing these JRPG's.

Microsoft has bought themselves time in Japan and that's about it, because if the PS3 got the same JRPG's that the 360 has gotten, the PS3's installbase probably would be around the 3.5-4 million mark right now and Microsoft realized that from the beginning, so Microsoft bought up JRPG's in Japan in hopes of slowing down the PS3.

LOL, it's been almost 3 years and the 360 is still more than 200,000 units away from a Million. It looks like Microsoft's plan backfired and the 360 didn't sell as much as they had thought it would because you would think that after nearly 3 years and plenty of JRPG's the 360, it would have already hit a million by now but it hasn't. The PS3 has had VERY little JRPG's and it's been more expensive but has sold well over 2 million in Japan in less than 2 years.

[PimpDaddy]

Do you think bashing the 360 and making excuses for the PS3 is really going to make a difference when it comes to sales???

SquareEnix want's to make money like all of the other corporations in the world. There is no such thing as loyalty unless your some sick fanboy such as yourself.

I own all 3 consoles. While I admit that the 360 is my favorite, I still enjoy games on my PS3 and Wii.

I'm glad I grew up a long time ago. I started with an Atari 2600. If I had the same hardcore loyalty as you do I would have missed out on such consoles as the Intellivison, Colecovision, NES, Sega Master system, SNES, Sega Genesis, TurboGraphix-16, Saturn, PS1, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox.

If I was a fanboy of Atari I would have been left behind with the Atari Jaguar by now and not playing gams at all.

Stop hating and spreading FUD already. It's tired, and makes you look pathetic.

be a gamer not a hater.

[DA_SHREDDER]

I understand they are just publishing these games,, but I remember the days when every game that had the Enix, or Squaresoft name on it was a masterpiece. Those were the days that graphics wasn't what made a game. Thats when games used to be about a great story,, one that made you feel like you were part of something special.

The last great game produced by the company was FF10. Sales were off the roof! Then something happend. First came a game called FF11. It was online only, and thats when the gameplay changed. It was no longer about story,, it was about objectives.. FF12 came out,, same thing,, different gameplay,, and the story was just not as enticing as the previous games.. Sales were falling,, wanna know why? Its because they were going into unfamiliar waters. They were trying to fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. Thats why no matter how much they try,, they will never make a FF7 or 10. They are more worried about what else to add to a broken hack n slash, then to make a story that we could all cherish.

I'll be straight up. Squaresoft and Enix were have been my favorite companys since I was a boy. I been playing rpg's since Dragon Warrior 1. Its not like I wanna see this company fall. But Microsoft's greed is spreading like the bubonic plauge. I understand this is a busniness and they need to takes steps that make it more profitable for them. But they are losing the loyal fanbase that made them who they are. I have both systems,,, and I played every rpg they have to offer on the 360. Trust me when I say that I hurt every time I see a game made by them that reeks of morning @ss. I wish they would get back to who they used to be, but I think that they screwed up so bad that FF13 cant even save them.

[DARKTRINITYxxx]

LOL not one single scabby XBOX360 exclusive you XBOX360 troggs have would ever compensate the loss of our beloved FF series to multiplat.

[grantps3]

yeah i dont like square at all.

and about there being more ps3 fanboys than xbox....i think its because playstation has been around longer and the ps3 fans are more loyal to the brand, and 360 fans are more loyal to halo/ gears or individual games.....but im basing this off of people i know so i dont mean to offend any 360 fanboys.

[Blu Ray3]

in the world too.
They have dug themselves quite a ditch for the XBOX brand to pull itself out of.
Doubt it can on a grand scale.

[Millah]

Any self respecting diehard old school Final Fantasy fan already BEEN playing Lost Odyssey for a while now...

If there are "diehard" FF fans out there that haven't played it yet and are just hearing about Lost Odyssey now, aren't exactly what you would call a diehard FF fan.

[jackdoe]

"Torrence thinks there are more PS3 fanboys than 360 fanboys. We discuss why and debate it."

Jesus christ. Your credibility, which was zero to begin with, went down to negative with that one. You expect us to take you seriously and you talk about sh!t like that? *Rolls Eyes*.

Jackdoe thinks Torrence is a fanboy. We'll discuss why and debate it.

[DA_SHREDDER]

Like about what he said about Lost Odessey. He said that Lost Odessey is Final Fantasy but with a different name. He is so wrong. First off, the Lost Odessey story was lame,, It felt nothing like FF. Sure some of the levels resembled a type of FF architecture, but the overall feel of that game felt really generic. FF7 and X both have better story's, better gameplay, and just plain ol more enticing. I tried to get into Lost odessey but it was just soo boring. That game had nothing going for it besides its visuals, and we all know that a good game doesn't need good visuals to be a great game.

[Enate]

Their focus is in the wrong place an it shows man yet they won't fix it if people keep settling for less like they have been. I hope for the day that I can play another game like the ones I love Xenogears, Suikoden II, FFVIII when will we ever get that.

[DeZimatoR]

No sh!t! That coming from a major 360 fanboy kinda makes it pointless doesn't it?

About Square: I'm just disappointed they are so blinded by the money they don't even care about making good games anymore...

[Leathersoup]

I hate Square Enix, so much... it-it- the f - it -flam - flames. Flames, on the side of my face, breathing-breathl- heaving breaths. Heaving breath...