Sony: We won't drop PS3 price this Xmas

Despite one analyst calling for an immediate PlayStation price cut, Sony is refusing to lower its price of the PS3 any further this year.

Even though Microsoft's Xbox 360 is enjoying a surge in sales following price cuts last month and fears of global economic meltdown are already tightening purse strings ahead of this festive season, Sony is pinning its hopes on the strength of its software line-up to see it through.

"We aren't making any price moves this holiday season," SCEA's director of corporate communications, Patrick Seybold, stated today. "We have the best line up of any PlayStation generation going into this holiday and consumers will be very receptive to it," he added

[Yi-Long]

... but I think Microsoft has made a great move by the current price-drop. Many people have now went out and got themselfs a 360. I picked one up for 200 euro last week. Now Microsof is also coming out with BUNDLES, so there will again be people making the jump for 360.

PS3 is a good product, and it has and will have great games... but for people with kids who just wanna buy them a good gamesconsole with lots of great games on it, at the moment, they will go for the 360. It's less than half the price of a PS3, and comes with games.

The PS3 maybe isnt dropping their price, and I can understand why... but they do need to release a 'better deal', like a very good-quality bundle, or free online content/games, or a couple of BluRays, or SOMETHING.

Personally, I WILL pick up a PS3 before this Xmas. It's a good machine and it has good games. No doubt about that.

The point is that for the average Joe and Jane and their kids, the 360 is already a very very good and affordable deal, which many of them will go for, and I doubt many of them will buy BOTH consoles this fall/winter.

Sony has to do SOMETHING, if they wanna keep up.

[shadowghost752]

There already are doing something to keep up, it is called Little Big Planet. A kid will want LBP over any 360 title this holiday

[Nineball2112]

You make some very good points... Bubbles for you.

I agree with what you posted.

The PS3 IS a great system but considering what the global economy is like at the moment, I'm not sure that fact alone or the great line up of games is going to overcome the issue with it's current price point.

I totally think that the PS3 is worth it's price, but like you said, your average Joe and Jane Doe will go for price first and consider the other factors secondly.

I think the state of the economy right now is going to favor Xbox this Christmas... And I'm a PS3 fan!

We'll see if Sony's plan works or if they'll have to lower the price on their system like MS has.

[Mr_Bun]

I think that Sony must have more than LBP (which is amazing) up their sleeve if they are this confident..."increasing multimedia features for the hardware"...not exactly sure what that means but apparently they aren't concerned over the increase in 360 sales.

[Yi-Long]

I agree LBP IS a greatlooking and very promising title, and it will BE a systemseller. Ofcourse. However, will it make people who are looking to buy a console for a wide variety of games, really pick the twice as expensive PS3 over the 360 for it!?
I dont think that for families right now, buying 2 consoles is an option... and that for many families, a 360 will already be 'good enough'. Especially because most of the mainstream people dont really know (yet?) about LBP.

Ofcourse, for many 'gamers' like you and me, LBP is a HUGE title, and it will sell systems. Mainstream however...!? Maybe not yet, or maybe once the hype through word-to-mouth starts rolling. But by that time, they might already have bought themselfs a 360.

[TheTwelve]

"We'll allow Microsoft to have their little party until Christmas. We fully realize that we will remain very competitive throughout this holiday season, because their pricecut is really no big deal, and that in 2009, it's completely game over. Have a nice day."

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[RealityCheck]

I agree with you, the PS3 is a great deal for people looking at everything like games and Blu-ray movies, but for parents\relatives looking to buy a console as gift, they will go with the cheaper good-enough 360.

Sony here is being a little stubborn and a little arrogant. I would expect based on this that the PS3 will remain in 3rd place for at least another year, will loose more exclusives, and the press will remind all of us of that every single week.

[TheTwelve]

Nah. I'm not believing a thing until I see some numbers. That's the truth of the matter. Sony will do what is needed when needed and thus far, the numbers don't show urgency for Sony to do a thing.

And as somebody stated below, the Xbox 360 will still be around the same price as a PS3 if you actually want to play it to the system's potential.

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[Nineball2112]

would be to offer a Little Big Planet console/gaming package.

They wouldn't be lowering the price of the PS3, but getting that game included with a console would be a big seller, I think.

[morganfell]

You have a different definition of keeping up than Sony and I will take their definition. First of all you sound like you American centric about this matter. The PS3 is outselling the 360 worldwide. How is this not keeping up with Microsoft?

Second, no one but Sony knows when they reach the point where they are happy with the cost returns.

[TheTwelve]

Exactly Morgan...these people act as if they have more insider information on the industry than Sony. What, you really think Sony isn't doing a price-cut due to PRIDE? This isn't highschool, people. This is grownups.

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[Yi-Long]

... I'm from Holland, which is in Europe, so I doubt I'm americancentric ;)

2nd of all, the more people own a 360 and are happy with it, the more developers will target their games at THAT audience for the coming years. That's pretty important, dont you think? Just thinka couple of steps into the future, and it just means that PS3 cant afford to really get behind too far.

360 is now also appealing to the mainstream consumers who last gen had a PS2, or perhaps an Xbox, and this gen first went for the Wii and are now left without any good games to play, so are looking for a new affordable next-gen machine. 360 IS that machine right now.

I dont doubt PS3 will also once again bring in a huge audience, but if they wont have a very good offer, it wont be this holiday-season. I predict next fall we will see the PS3 really getting popular with the mainstream audience, due to pricedrops for blueray, lots of games, and a lower price for the system itself.

But like I said, they do need to keep up or else the 360 will get more and more exclusives and developers will have the 360 as their main system, and just port everything over to the PS3, which isnt good news for Sony, or it's gamers.

[juuken]

Define exclusives.

The 360 getting more and more exclusives? So...I assume that 1st party studios aren't making exclusives for the PS3?

You can argue that the parent would go for the 360 because of the cheap price, however there are still people out there who want better value for their money.

[TheTwelve]

Yi-Long: When the 360 is able to consistently outsell the PS3, worldwide, besides just fresh off of a pricecut, then you'll see Sony do what they need to "keep up" as you suggest. I don't know why you think you know more about this than they do...lol.

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[Nathaniel_Drake]

Yeah I have to agree with Morganfell and TheTwelve, Sony is not dropping the price of the PS3 because well they don't have to, they have two other consoles on the market a last gen console and a handheld, which I don't know of the release date but is getting a hardware update. Microsoft in its gaming division is more pressured to drop the price because that's all they really have in their gaming division that defines them, Xbox 360.

Everyone always says software sells hardware and a lot of people were complaining about the PS3 not having the software in its first year to do that well folks here it is the software has cometh and what a line up. And like it or not but some unit sales this holiday season are going to come from blu-ray sales from Iron Man to that well known movie "The Dark Knight".

Now I don't know how the consumer will take this holiday season with the economy here the way it is, but we should all know that consumer buying is always a finicky appetite and doesn't always go with logic, ask Pachter about that.

Casual and hardcore software are being sold this holiday season from all consoles, but there is no way of knowing which side it will go, but do you really think Sony's sales are going to drop to where they would have to drop the price of the PS3, I just can't see that happening

[Yi-Long]

"Yi-Long: When the 360 is able to consistently outsell the PS3, worldwide, besides just fresh off of a pricecut, then you'll see Sony do what they need to "keep up" as you suggest. I don't know why you think you know more about this than they do...lol"

Right now, the PS3 is selling well. You're right.

However, let's look at who's buying the PS3. Gamers? Sure. But there are also ALOT of people buying the system mainly for the BluRay player.
When you look at all this from the perspective of GAME-developers, they KNOW a big amount of the people owning the PS3 arent necessarilly also 'gamers'. Right!?

PS3 is selling as a great mediacenter with a BR-player inside. Fantastic! Great value for money! Love the machine, love the system!

But will those people buy a JRPG!? Or will they buy Far Cry 2? Or will they buy Afrika?

So what I'm trying to say, is that although PS3 is selling very well, you cant REALLy compare the sellingnumbers between the 2 systems as an indication of how well they are doing, FOR THE GAMING INDUSTRY! Cause alot of people arent buying the PS3 for games, but mainly as a great and cheap BR player and mediacenter.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's important to realize that difference, from a developer standpoint, and from the standpoint from Sony.

Sony doesnt NEED to lower the prices cause the system is still selling great. However, not necessarilly to GAMERS, which could be a problem in the long run, when we're talking about games and exclusives etc.

[TheTwelve]

Nice, but now you're getting into the unproven. As I said, the only thing Sony will listen to and the only thing developers will listen to are the numbers.

Oh, and you think the Wii is being bought by GAMERS? Certainly not. However look how many exclusives they've stolen from Sony for that same reason.

Also, MGS4 proved to all sides involved that people bought the PS3 to play games.

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[morganfell]

You are out of step with that porting to PS3 idea. It is becoming the other way around. Over the past 4-5 months that has been the biggest shift in console development. Sales, for a variety of reason including media, have made the PS3 a force with which developers and publishers now must reckon.

On top of that there a handful of experimenters looking to do certain things that require permissions MS refuses to grant.

But the big move has been more and more companies picking the PS3 as the lead dev platform and then porting to the 360 so your assessment is backwards in that regard.

Saying you can't compare the selling numbers between the two systems is tantamount to living in a dream world. Since the PS3 launch it has been outselling the 360 worldwide and gaining on the 360. Based on the way sales have been heading the 360 lead is now likely down in the 3 mil range and that is pretty sad for an entire year head start. With a big chunk of that lead being the Arcade system with no HDD and god knows how many of those lead numbers are RROD systems then is there even a lead at all? After all, look at the sales of EA and who they sat provides the majority of their revenue.

Gaming is mainstream now so trying to differentiate between a homeowner that bought the PS3 for a Bluray player and a gamer is acting as if that homeowner won't also buy games. Frankly that concept is a bit passe.

EDIT: I don't care how many friends houses you have been to. If you don't actually own a PS3 then discussing it's capabilities as a gaming device is like trying to pass off hearsay evidence in court.

Let's be correct here. 90% of the time what the developer wants to do doesn't mean squat. It's what the publisher wants that matters. There are exceptions but those exceptions are few and far between. Decisions are tied to the purse strings.

[Yi-Long]

"Nice, but now you're getting into the unproven. As I said, the only thing Sony will listen to and the only thing developers will listen to are the numbers.

Oh, and you think the Wii is being bought by GAMERS? Certainly not. However look how many exclusives they've stolen from Sony for that same reason.

Also, MGS4 proved to all sides involved that people bought the PS3 to play games."

Nothing 'unproven' about it. It's a FACT that many people have bought the PS3 mostly because of the BR-player. Just read the CNET website or magazines or whatever.

Now, if both systems have a userbase of 1000 (example, obviously), and for 1 system 100% bought it to play games on, and the other system was bought by 90% to play games on, and by 10% to watch movies or use it as a mediacenter, which system do you think will be more interesting to develop for, from a GAMEDEVELOPER's point of view, wanting to sell as much games as possible!?

That's what's the issue here.

Also, you didnt understand my when I said the MAINSTREAM was buying Wii's last year. Those are not the 'gamers' like you and me (ofcourse, many 'gamers also bought a Wii, but it mostly sold to people with families as toy for the livingroom as opposed to selling to 'traditional gamers').

So now that the Wii has them nothing more to offer, and the mainstream does want an affordable console to enjoy games on... the next logical option would the the 360. Right!? Or do you think those people will now spend 400 euro on a PS3 instead? Some will, ofcourse... but most of them will see the cheap 360 as the best option.

And ofcourse MGS4 sold extremely well. Its one of the best games in history. Even I bought it, and I dont even have a PS3 yet (bought it cheap on holiday).

[wallace1000]

I agree that LBP will target a wide audience but if a little kid wants it for Christmas will an average family in a struggling economy spend the extra to get a PS3 over a Wii or 360?

[morganfell]

Wallace, this is where MS has been fairly deceptive and Sony has done a poor job of not exposing all the associative costs of owning a 360 and then expecting to get a full gaming experience. Several of us have broken that issue down in the past with hard numbers.

When you examine the complete costs for the full experience, and face it - almost no one is buying an arcade in numbers and just sitting it at home and playing it with no HDD and a silver account. It may start out like that but for the most part it doesn't end up like that.

[The Lazy One]

Alright, so you tell me ONE (just one) thing that I will need to play games on my arcade system if I buy one of the new european arcade bundles.

Just one. That's all. Tell me a single thing that I will need not in the box to PLAY GAMES.

edit: at below. And you'd be wrong. you get a free month with every new 360, and neither game in any bundle requires xbox live to play 100% of the game, sooo... question remains.

edit 2: sure? why not? do I need xbox live to play every game? in fact, I'm fairly certain that you don't need it to play any game. Question stays. Name one thing not in the box that I need to play games.

[Nineball2112]

Well, if you want to play 100% of the game you bought (which includes multiplayer on most games), you'll need to buy an Xbox Live Gold subscription.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think those come in the box.

Edit: at above... Sooo, technically, you would be correct for the games in the bundle, and for one month. But then what? You don't buy other games and you don't play online after one month? C'mon...

[Ju]

@Yi-Long. Your arguing is mood. You say you are from Holland and you also repeatedly state that the PS3 is bought primarily as a BR player.

I don't know where you take this information from, except it is a year old argumentation and proven wrong so many times.

Especially in Europe, PS3 SW outsells 360 games constantly. The attach rate of games in the EU for the PS3 is higher then for the 360. It reached the install base for the 360 in almost half the time. I can hardly see, that these customers are primarily interested in BD movies - except they are that stupid and mix up a game with a movie.

Now, something else. I was really considering getting a 360. The price is really interesting. But then, I have a PS3 already and I did some calculations. BR was one of the factors I got another PS3, you are right. WiFi was the second argument. I have no wires upstairs in my bedroom. Well, and yes the bigger HDD was another reason, especially since I learned I can re-download content for both machine from PSN up to 5 times (local Wipeout tournament ?). BR alone would justify the purchase, the rest is really icing on the cake.

[mikeslemonade]

Since Sony has been in the gaming industry they have never dropped price during the fall or spring. They are allowing Microsoft to be the guinea pig. When you know Sony has not dropped the price of the system in the fall or winter for 13 years are you really going to doubt Sony's judgement. They know there system will sell out so a price drop is pointless.

[Yi-Long]

"@Yi-Long. Your arguing is mood. You say you are from Holland and you also repeatedly state that the PS3 is bought primarily as a BR player."

I never said that. Let alone repeatedly. I think you repeatedly misunderstood what I was saying.

I said MANY people have bought a PS3 mainly because of the BRplayer.

That does NOT mean that a majority of the PS3 owners bought the PS3 mainly for the BRplayer.

It means that 100% of the people who bought the 360, bought it for the games. Maybe 80-90% of the PS3 owners bought it for the games, and the remaining 10-20% (or more) bought it mainly as a great and cheap BR player.

That's exactly what I said, and I stick with that, as it's the truth, and you can look it up in magazines and websites like CNET or whatever. There are many people who are NOT gamers, but who HAVE bought a PS3. That's not negative towards PS3 or PS3 games, or PS3 owners. It's just a FACT.

Some people seem to be under the impression that I'm negative about the PS3. I'm not. It's a great machine, with great games, great specs, a great line-up, and it offers a great value for money. I've repeatedly said that.

HOWEVER, that doesnt mean that for the average Joe and Jane who are looking for a console this holiday-season, the PS3 will be their choice. Most of them will just go for the much cheaper 360. These people just want a console to play games with. 360 offers that much cheaper than Sony does.

And if Sony wants to keep up, they need to at least come up with a nice alternative. Doesnt HAVE to be a pricedrop, but at the very least a very good bundle would be adviseable.

[Ju]

Sorry, I still disagree. The BR player only argument is simply outdated. And yes, you said, some people (and you quantify this with 10%+) bought it primarily as a BD player, arguing these people will buy less games. Make up your mind please. So, are these customers gamers or not? The BD player argument is outdated, since you can get cheaper players now for about $100 less. It is however still an argument to buy one, even for gamers.

I just underlined above, no matter how to turn it, games get sold on the PS3. Especially in Europe, where the install base is about on par, and you see PS3 SW outselling 360 SW (overall, and I'd say, in titles its about the same. GTA4 sold way more on PS3, but other titles sold more on 360).

As long as the 360 price cut does not lead to a significant run away success for MS, there's no reason for Sony to rush into anything. I doubt, within 6 month the numbers of installed machines will lead to extensive different perspective on the #SW sold.

6 month down the road is a different story. I expect Sony to drop the price - after they've introduced the 45nm and reduced costs even more. But what Sony can afford less is to loose money again this holiday season.

[zethos56]

You have a good point. Your average parent sees the cheaper console and buys it regardless of quality. People like that don't look up the exclusive games coming out in the next year or two.

Bubbles :).

[DaTruth]

For those who do still have money, the HDTV's are gonna be on a Christmas fire sale and plenty of father's are gonna be looking to get a gift for the kids(the gift that gives back); A PS3 with LBP and Dark Knight will do the trick. I'll probably pick up another HDTV myself for the bedroom... Thinking a 50" 1080p whichever company has the best price to contrast ratio ah... ratio.

[Blink_44]

.."but for people with kids who just wanna buy them a good gamesconsole with lots of great games on it, at the moment, they will go for the 360. It's less than half the price of a PS3, and comes with games. "

Uhh im pretty sure kids will go for the Wii.

[Yi-Long]

@DaTruth:
What do you know about any sales for HDTV's, and from about which date can we expect them dropping in price!? Early november? Early december? I'm asking cause I'm at the verge of buying a 1080p plasma myself :) Thanks in advance.

@Blink:

No, those families bought a Wii last year. Now they're bored with it, and see the 360 as a good new alternative with a much better line-up and lots of great games already out.

[No Way]

Are you Santa Claus? =Þ

[morganfell]

DaTruth that is a very valid point. Two of my neighbors just bought replacement TVs because of the new standard that comes into effect in Feb of 2009. And guess what. When they did, both picked up PS3s to get the full measure of those HDTVs. I run a 52 XBR and there is nothing like it.

Since that guy was quoting cnet earlier:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1...

http://www.tvpredictions.co...

http://www.mixx.com/stories...

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Yi-Long, I get what you are saying man. I think Sony is doing something, but still, could go anyway.

I can see Sony not re-pricing PS3 this year as much as I can see they doing it (they wouldn't say if they are cutting the price like in one to two months away, people would just stop buying it and wait for the pricedrop).

The problem is, 360 IS on the so called magic price now. It don't have selled that much more for the magic price, but also we have to consider that no major game get launched 'till last numbers came up. 360 can and probably will make a major blow with Gears and this price.

Sony has the year advantage, I don't think MS can, on those 3 months alone, sell more 360s than Sony has sold PS3s. But, this don't mean they can't come on top of Xmas, which can potentially ruin PS3 momentum, and Sony would have to start all over again early 2009, at this pace, gaining ground just to loose a part of it on Xmas, Sony won't pass MS.

So, Sony better have an Ace on its sleeve, or they will have problems. I can see the line-up helping PS3 to hold momentum and been on par with 360 in US, even coming before 360 in EU and Japan, but I don't see Sony advertising enough to be so confident that their games can do it alone.

So, the way I see it, they'll star to ad the hell of Little Big Planet, Motorstorm, SOCOM, Resistance and the new bundle for the next months OR, when the new bundle hit, they put it up in the actual PS3 price and cut the price of the 80GB version in 50 or 100 USD.

[wallace1000]

I agree dude. I think the PS3 will always be a bit more expensive when compared to the 360 because it had more tech in it. That blu-ray drive costs more than the 360s dvd drive. So a higher price is ok because you get the bonus of a blu-ray drive for both games and movies. I think it is just going to be hard for families that are being affected by the economic slump so justify buying a "more expensive" system (i am referring to out of the box, bc when you add HDD and live you are getting on par). I could be wrong though, it has happened before :-P

[wetowel]

Its not like they are gonna come out and tell you they are gonna drop the price of the ps3. If they did from now till the date the price drop comes into effect there will be no sales. The consumer will think why should I buy a ps3 now when I could just wait a few weeks and get it for cheaper. Not very smart from a business stand point.

[Kleptic]

true...but my guess is they are right...numerous financial reports aimed at investors where what originally confirmed that the PS3's current price would remain throughout 2008...its when Sony reps are telling the media that they won't drop the price, and their predictions for shareholders show otherwise...that things don't add up...

either way...this confirms Sony losing the 2008 sales race to both MS and Nintendo in the US...and it will be close...again...world wide for the PS3 and 360...Sony built some great momentum earlier this year...but are squandering without question...

great lineup?...definitely...but Sony is overly optimistic about it...they are saying the software will sell the ps3's...but my guess is that the price point of the PS3 will hurt the sales of the software...basically opposite of what they are saying...

we'll see...wait till Sony gets ahold of Sept. NPD numbers...some last minute holiday season adjustments may be in order...

[felidae]

they don't need to ..

[ceedubya9]

They are selling okay without a recent price drop up to this point, but who's to say that they won't be slaughtered by the end of the holiday season in sales? Maybe they will be okay. We really won't know until about the end of December or something.

If things take a turn for the worst for them, then we should expect a price drop by early next year.

[Altis1]

they may need to.

[Nineball2112]

I used to think that too. But, the way things are going with the economy, there are going to be cutbacks this Christmas, I think.

Price is going to be a factor. I realize you really aren't comparing apples to apples between the lowest priced Xbox and a PS3 because of well-known reasons (ie. wi-fi, HDD, Blu-Ray player, etc.) but good ol' Mom and Dad probably won't realize that and even if they do, they might not care.

*shrugs*

[NipGrip]

Yes, so let's do some math. The average person does *not* have their internet connection beside their TV. That means:

- XBOX 360 Arcade unit - $200
- Wireless adapter - $100

That's $300 right there. You get no Live Gold, No Harddrive, and No bluray player. The smartest, best investment to make is the PS3 $400 model with Bluray, wireless built in, and free online (no yearly or monthly fees). It's simply the smartest choice.

All of these people calling for a price drop.. Why don't you hitup MS for a price drop on their overly expensive peripherals and then we'll talk. Until then, you're just looking at the immediate upfront cost without taking long term costs into consideration. When you add the HD and the yearly Live fee to the Arcade unit, it's then *more* expensive than the PS3 and still without Bluray.

Price drops didn't help the GameCube against the PS2 and with a great lineup of true exclusives this holiday and into 2009, the PS3 will sell great at a $400 price point. May not outsell the 360, but for what Sony is trying to do and taking a minimal loss on each console sold, it will be just fine. Long term thinking. Not short term.

How many 360's are going to be returned after the holidays in January when parents realize the arcade unit can't be hooked up to the internet without a $100 adapter? Then little Johnny wants to play online right? Another $50 a year. $350.. Vs $400 for the PS3.. It's going to be more complicated than people are making it out to be. Upfront initial costs on the most basic model isn't able to measure up to even it's own Elite system in terms of the hardware. And people are just acting like the Arcade unit is a legitimate 360 console. It's so gimped, it's embarrassing!

[The Lazy One]

how do you know where the average person has their router? I'm guessing the average person wouldn't mind moving it and using wireless for their PC, as the average user uses their internet for surfing the internet, not for gaming or downloading.

Also, why does the average user automatically need internet on their 360? I may as well say the average user is going to need to buy a car in order to drive to the store and buy blu-rays. That's like $2500! The PS3 is obviously more expensive.

[NipGrip]

Because I know my parents, I know plenty of friends, and other parents (your average gamer, right, not hardcore) do not have their internet connection sitting by their TV. It's by their computer in another room. They enjoy Wireless connections from their laptops, their Wii, and yes, their PS3. It's stupid the 360 is trying to milk $100 from gamers instead of putting it in there, honestly.

And the having a car to drive to the store stuff.. Just keep that, it's ignorant at best. At least be honest about things without bringing up crappy analogies. The baseline 360 is gimped, no two ways around it. Your average parent won't know this. The PS3 is a better long term investment given you get everything and then some for $400.

When you compare the Arcade unit to the PS3, you're only fooling yourselves and unsuspecting buyers. There is no comparison really. Buyer beware. The entry cost may be lower, but the long term costs will put it above the PS3 and you still won't have a Bluray player for that fancy new HDTV this Xmas.

[Ju]

I didn't pay anything for my (2nd) PS3. Got 18 month, no interest. If I wanted I can go ahead and pay $200 right now. And say I'd do the same with a 360 and add the rest over time it'll still be more expensive (HDD, WiFi, and Live for 2 years == $100, and still no BD).

[The Lazy One]

when you compare an arcade unit to a PS3 you're only fooling YOURSELF. Why would someone that wants to game online and download things want an arcade console? The arcade console is designed just to be a gaming machine, and it does everything it promises to.

You can't tack on all those add ons when there are bundles for a much cheaper price.

You don't need a $100 adapter, you need a $30 wireless access point, and I can think of 4 houses of at least 4 people each that have their wireless routers in the family room so everyone can get to it. Don't consider yourself everyone.

[Ju]

OK, then say, we'll take the Pro, add the $50 live and the $35 for the access point (haven't found anything cheaper). So, what's the point now? We got $300+50+35 = $385, same price and still no BD player (ah, OK, you saved $15, and still 20GB less).

I mean at some point you need to stick to your argument. What now? Are we discussing the significant lower price or not? Because $385 ain't it.

W/e. The point I tried to make, is. If you only got $200 you can get what you want. No matter how much it really costs. The Arcade lours people into a spending the remaining $200 later. Just to realize, possibly within a year, you'd rather trade in the Arcade and get a Pro because you'd need that damn HDD to download (and in future) install your games onto something. I bet right here, that within those 18 month, you spend way more the $400 bucks. Note it down, ask your friends in a year from now and tell how much they'd spend in this period.

[The Lazy One]

At the old price and still haven't spent that much. They bought 1 extra controller (maybe 2 now), and they're perfectly happy with their system. They have spent the $275 + $50 for the extra controller. DONE.

$325 for a fully functional game system for a 4 person family last year with no extra money spent on anything but games.

[Ju]

Well, yes, I can see your point. It didn't work for me, though, the additional costs (these add on costs) where one of the factors. I was very tempted to get one, but I know for myself, that I'd have to get live for my boys (and me) at some point, and as soon as you do, a WiFi will be required, and I would have guesses a HDD also, simply you'll get "exposed" to all what could be downloaded. But, sure, I am not saying I am the norm, especially because I do have another console already, and wouldn't be able to switch the machine if, for example one is used by the kids. But, eventually, for me the minor cost benefit wasn't worth it. Also, it is easier to make my wife happy if she can watch BDs at night, too. So, at the end, there was simply no cost benefit at all (wouldn't have bought another separate BD player). And anything else then the Arcade would have rendered the whole argumentation pointless anyway. On the very same time, I am sure that a lot of people also look beyond the "just" gaming argument. Simply because "just gaming" is damn expensive. It is way easier to argue spending money with a broader field of use.

[The Lazy One]

Too many PS3 supporters just like to use usually unnecessary add ons to support the concept that the 360 is actually just as expensive, and it doesn't help that many of them take, quite literally, the most expensive route (ex. if you have a laptop you don't even need a wireless access point to use wireless live on 360, and it's $40 for 13 months now, not $60 for 12). In your case it might work that way, but everyone is not the same. A lot of people just want to play games as cheaply as possible, and the 360 delivers on that point.

[Ju]

I don't think that I am the only one thinking that way. For me "just a game console" is just too expensive if I can't use it for anything else. If the price would be solely the reason, the 360 would always have sold way way more. But even the latest price cut boosted 360 sales just moderately (I'd say), while it did not harm PS3 sales at all.

[DaTruth]

Don't forget to add the shipping costs for RRODx3(three being the average).

[jerethdagryphon]

my routers 15 inches from my ps3 and i stil go wireless

a lot of parents ive talked to at work and stuff say they prefer wireless internet with ther consoles because of there kids

kids trip pull wires and knock off things even when there inside a cabanet ive seen guy come in with his 360 cracked case and say kids pulled it of when fighting over controller

wireless = safer for colsoles own health

[nycredude]

I went to gamestop the other day and saw a dude buying a 360 arcade for $200. However after the clerk explained to him he needs another controller, wifi, xbox live account and a couple of other things he ended up spending like $450 anyway before he walked out.

The reason i bring this up is because I too thought about buying the arcade but it seems to me it is only way to sucker people into getting the 360 and then they bleed you with the other stuff when you realize later that you need it. Ps3 on the other hand gives you everything you need up front at a really reasonable price.

People who complain about the price don't make any sense. Let's say the Ps3 doesn't do anything but play Bluray movies, you would still have one of the best and cheapest Bluray playing available. Come on! Where is the common sense?

[juuken]

That's crazy.

The money he spent could have been towards a PS3 because it comes with everything attached. The Arcade is good for people who just want games, but what happens when they see their friends (their friends could have a 360 as well) with XBL, playing movies, among other things?

Sony should consider dropping the price but they're doing alright so far. I check Amazon once in a while and the PS3 is *still* selling.

[wicked]

May be he wanted to play Halo or GoW2 on live or if his mates had xboxs, a PS3 would be no good to him, so the cost does not come into it.

[Yi-Long]

... I would never EVER buy an Arcade. It's just a rip-off cause you'll need so much extra stuff. However, many parents and people in the unknown, DO buy the thing. yeah that's stupid beyond belief, but I guess for Microsoft, it's working great(!)

Personally, I bought the Elite, as I already have the extra controllers, and I already have the games (won them in competitions, or bought them cheap, either online or in Hong Kong) plus a free year of live (came with Halo 3) etc, so for me, I only had to wait for a nice pricedrop for the Elite, and picked it up :)

But if I would have to buy everything 'new' now, the PS3 would seem like a very good deal. But again, that's something that 'we, in the know' know, but Joe and Jane Mainstream, they dont know.

It still sickens me to see what Microsoft is charging for some stuff, like the HDD's and the wireless LAN and memorycards and Live etc... :(

Sony however, isnt much better btw, when it comes to controllers: 60 euro for a DS3, whereas I bought 2 of them in Hong Kong, for 27 euro each(!)

[Darkseider]

The example you give is the same example I have used time and time again. Yes the price of entry is $200 but after you throw in XBL, Wifi adapter and HD you are out $470. The $399 for the PS3 is at that point a bargain seeing that you can toss in a game and still come in lower. Unfortunately alot of people are saps and will fall for this and get suckered.

[Blades08]

I think the clerk was trying to make some commission or something. The arcade comes with a wireless controller, you don't need wifi unless you don't have an ethernet port close by to use a RJ-45 cable, but to play games you do need xbox live for $40-50 a year. Now all this goes out the window if their are 2 people that will be playing at the same time (so you need 2 controllers) but then no console comes with 2 controllers standard and if he only has wifi then he will need to buy one, which is standard on the PS3 and Wii.

Also, Costco is selling a bluray stand alone player for $225 now and a Sony one is at $299. I believe Amazon is selling a Sony player for under $299. So the PS3 is not the cheapest player around anymore just for movies.

Edit: I mean to play multiplayer games online you need XBL for $40-50 a year. So if everything worked out right then the initial start cost is $350, if you don't game online it's $200. If you want to add everything in it will be about $450 with HD and wifi or more depending on what you want. I think the 60gb is the better value when it comes to 360's.

[Nineball2112]

that in the long run, you're paying the same amount of money to get the same gaming experience...

But, when funds are tight, people might be thinking that they'll get a gaming system NOW and then when more funds are available, they'll come back and buy the other accessories when they can...

Man, I gotta stop being so logical... I'm starting to be reasonable with my MS vs. Sony arguments. ;-)

[ceedubya9]

There is no excuse for that. Hopefully the extra controller, wifi, and those "other things" were really needed. Otherwise, that employee just seriously got over on them.

I only buy what I need. I don't have the wifi adaptor, and don't plan on getting it. Extra controller is a toss up, but if you needed another for someone else, you were going to pay for it anyway. If you're going to get all of that, why even bother getting an Arcade unite? Might as well get the Elite or Pro if you came to spend that much money. It completely defeats the purpose of getting the Arcade at that point in time. If I have 450 dollars to burn, I'm coming out with a 40 gig PS3 or a Pro 360.

[Darkseider]

When you spend the money you still spend the money. In any case if you break down the cost of the Arcade + Wifi + HDD + XBL you are spending approx. 25% more for the end result. Not to mention IF, notice I said IF, you also want Blu-Ray movies that will be an additional $300 which would be approx. the cost of TWO PS3s. So to wrap it up, I still fail to see the issue with the price of a PS3.

[NipGrip]

Once they can get the clueless into an Arcade unit, they will eventually (probably very quickly) make more money than the Elite costs on expensive add-ons alone.

It's Microsoft that needs a price drop. On their expensive hard drives and goofy wireless adapters. And make Live free.

[Blades08]

What it really comes down is how you perceive value. Do you want everything a PS3 offers for $399 or do you want a 360 and what it offers for the 3 different price points. So I think a lot of the arguments are just opinions for that person on why you should buy or to justify a purchase. So it's a matter of what you value more that leads you to justify the cost. Once you pay it who cares just enjoy your system.

Yes, I think someone asked if gold membership comes with every 360, it comes with 1 month free when you type in the code- you can use that anytime.

[Ju]

Just a small note. There's no 40GB PS3 any more. The 80GB costs $399 now.

And actually, that was another reason to get a second one. I can keep my 60Gig free of smaller DLC because I can use the bigger space for the try outs now. I was hesitating with the 40GB model way more.

[Sir_Ken_Kutaragi]

It's WORTH every Penny!!! ;-P

+If it was say £199.99 now??? OMG!!! You wouldn't find one from now till xMas and beyond!!! £299.99 is o.k for all it does;)
(Feel sorry for the people who can't afford it tho at the moment)

p.s To any xBot Lemmings on this replying to my Comment, i can't see what your saying because i DON'T GIVE A **** WHAT YOUR SAYING!!!
(+Your ALL on my Ignore List)
Don't waste your time yeah, i'm not interested!!!

[Altis1]

Best dust magnet I have ever purchased.

[joebahrjoebahr]

i hope i am proved wrong this christmas. i dont get how people say they have so much fun with their ps3 theirs nothign for it and blu ray is way to expensve for somehting im gonna watch once

edit:

rawd id rather have a fireplace than a paperweight.

[Pennywise]

JoeBar - Play your 360 and quit wondering what we are doing to have fun.

I have so much stuff to do with my PS3, games to play, movies to watch... I use it for internet too. I dont feel the need to have to justify anything to you, but you are a blind fanboy who has NO IDEA. Every game I have is a quality game that I enjoy to play. I messaged a friend last night stating I'm glad PS3 doesnt have MORE games... I would have no kind of life.

Unlike people like YOU - I go out, I work full time and when I am home, I can turn my PS3 on and have my choice of game. It could be a shooter, a racer, a platformer, a sports game, a fighting game, a flying game - PS3 has it all right now. My only wish is a RPG game that keeps my interest, but that isnt a deal breaker with all of the good games I have to play. Your comments are ignorant.

[alexM]

LBP will score at 100% at meta

I wont be surprised if Resistance 2 does that too
However R2 will easily average at 95% or above at META
Motorstorm2 will average over 90% or close to 90%
same goes to Naruto

Ofcourse PS3 has the BIGGEST RPG OF THIS GEN launching exclusively this year ---WKS

[juuken]

Joe...you're a f*cking nimrod.
For the sake of us all, don't reproduce.

[theEnemy]

Fireplace ?

Isn't that the why your 360 is for ?

[lawman1108]

It will be YEARS before they can come near the $199 of an Xbox 360 suckers!

[Voozi]

If Sony isn't going to cut price then they better advertise the hell out of the PS3 if they want to keep up with the 360's "more appealing" price to the average joe consumer. Especially with the current stock market fumblings we've been seeing, people may want to be more careful this holiday with how much they spend and go with the cheaper priced console if they're choosing to buy one.

This holiday will be an interesting one

[Sony Rep]

for them as a company and for us as consumers.

This is why you will see plenty of bundles specific to each region.

Sony isn't as flexible as they want to be or we want them to be. They have to ride off the successes of their software lineup. Unlike like last year, where they had to cut the price, in order to accommodate for the lack of a lot of compelling software.

Next year, they know a price cut is due and will really put the pressure on- pressure on MS, where they will be more flexible.

[rawd]

I don't see why it needs a price drop. The Wii is priced properly for a toy, 360 is priced accordingly for a fireplace.

PS3 is the complete entertainment multimedia hub for the home.

[Pennywise]

Agreed, but with the economical situations of a lot of families/people I think a price drop would help out.

I agree it is worth every penny, I paid $600 and still feel it was worth it... but its so far away from its "competition's" pricing.

[SickNick85]

they aren't crazy...they announce the price drop few days before because if they announce today people wait until price drop...

[SilverKiller]

i think Sony should do a price cut, at least a 50$ dollar price cut just to offer to customer less value and more thing over the XBOX, but maybe Sony is going to launch a good bundle and they can save this coming xmas, but i think that MS is going to sell more than Sony because of the price point not because of the games.

[robotnik]

They will drop it sooner or later, as they did one year ago in Europe.

[enjoi187]

sonys loss.....yeah give a seven year old a ps3 controller he see how long he will play LBP.....its a giant map editor and kids DO NOT have that kind of attention span trust me.......COME ON SONY CATCH UP...even if they did drop the price this year or next year sony would still be losing money on every console sold.....and unfortunately not everyone needs a ps3 or wants one. Sure the 360 doesn't have wifi or blu-ray...but some people just want to game....

a *ucking 7 year old does not need a ps3...simple as that....and since MS is at a $200 dollar console it will sell like hot cake for Christmas burning the ps3 in its path..........

Oooo and i work at game stop and im going to tell everyone to get a 360..MUAHHAHAHAHHA mUUUAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

[Fishy Fingers]

LOL... Yes because most people base there purchases on the advice of a gamestop employee. Id hazard a guess that if you were going to buy a console you'd probably had made you choice up already.

Also, you seriously would go out of your way to advise someone to buy "X" console because thats the one YOU prefer? Quite possible the sadist thing I've ever read. Take a minute, Gamestop pay your wages, not a console manufacturer, they dont care about you so why care about them?

[rawd]

You seem to have alot of expertise regarding 7 year olds

[Darkseider]

doesn't need a XBox 360 either. A 7 year old should be given a Wii or a DS at the most. So your argument is moot. As for LBP being a big map editor, you sir are sadly mistaken or just uninformed. In any case your post shows just how much you know about video games and the video game industry. In a word, nothing.

[juuken]

Very constructive...such a constructive argument indeed. /sarcasm

For a big map editor, LBP sure is selling extremely well at Amazon. It's still at number 4. This game is creative enough to get any child going with their imaginations.

And I agree with Darkseider. A parent could very well give a child a DS or a Wii for Christmas.

[NipGrip]

Three Developers Explain LittleBigPlanet Level Design to a 7-Year-Old

http://kotaku.com/5057652/t...

"My son has become completely enamored with LittleBigPlanet. Which isn't that surprising. But what is surprising is what about the game that's enthralling. It's not the play that has him begging to boot up the Playstation 3 every night, but the creation.

Tristan has become a indie developer and he doesn't even realize it. He spends hours sitting in front of the television adding to his level, figuring out ways to torture gamers, defending his creation. Last week he called me to the television for a play through. At one point I decided to break from the obvious path and drop down to the floor of his level, far from the beaten path. Once there I realized I couldn't get back up. I'm stuck, I said. Oh, I'm going to add scorpions there dad."

So.. Wrong again. Nice try though.

[Ju]

I guess their priority is making a profit for Sony. Doesn't help if you loose money and (!) double your sales. Doubles your loss as well. Seams they'll try to have a good holiday season but also make some money. Market share plus new games could increase the attach rate and make a profit. The total numbers sold sometimes doesn't sell you more games by default. If that would be true, nothing could reach the PS2, but in fact this is not the case. Sony seams to have a great exclusive line up with surprises still to come.

[Fishy Fingers]

"Despite one analyst calling for an immediate PlayStation price cut"

Dispite advice from an anaylst? Wow Sony must be crazy..... pfft

Eitherway, when you've been in the game as long as Sony and been as successful I don't think advice from an anaylst is going to change your business model.

Anaylst's seem to be breeding with the growth of the internet, why people put weight in there predictions I'm not sure. We're all capable enough to make our own guess'.

[juuken]

I don't place my faith in analysts. Analysts could be either right or wrong these days.

[Coke-a-Cola]

.

[krik]

A bundle with LBP and 2 DualShock 3 controllers is all they need.

[joebahrjoebahr]

im the ignorant one and your the only one out of both of us accusing people of not having full time jobs and being blind. its the open zone sweetheart, untwist your panties.

but if your getting this upset over games and what i say about yours, mabye you should re evaluate your social life.

and i do own a ps3, but once again it doesnt get much time of play here in my apartment due to the fact that i do electric work for 8 hours a day than work in a tattoo shop till 10 o clock every day to support my kid.

[rawd]

ahahaha apartment

[Pennywise]

Accused who of not having a job? What the hell are you on about?

Funny - I have ONE job and a HOUSE and you are working TWO jobs and have an apartment. BACK TO YOUR DUNGEON TROLL.

I was just saying PS3 has plenty of games and they are GOOD. I dont give a rats behind what you think. But I do doubt you have a Ps3.

[PimpHandStrong]

like anyone cares why you dont have time to play games

the fact you said PS3 has nothing to play says all we need to hear! I bought the Iron Man BR for 24 bucks! The dvd is 19!

anyway

im not here to debate a person with 2 bubbles

[nieto2]

doesn't the PS3 and x360 have almost the same games? this gen almost every game it's multi-plat...

in the pas month the only exclusive were a couple of FLOPS for the X360 like Infinite Undiscovery and Too Human and the PS3's getting soon a couple of games like Resistance, Socom, LBP and a bunch of multi-plat so what are you talking about the PS3 not having games?

the x360 and ps3 have more or less the same amount of exclusives games for christmas you just need to choose between the ones you like more.

[Delive]

The white flag of surrender for this holiday season?

[JEDI WOLVERINE]

With a majority of families on a tight budget,what with the world-wide economy and such the 360 will be a more 'Prudent' buy.

As has been been pointed out - perhaps over the space of 5/6 years the PS3 will be cheaper IF you subscribe to LIVE GOLD for that time.but does the average person know this - i doubt it.

Also i believe that people will walk into a shop and see the same multiplat titles on both systems that 'Little Timmy' might like - Madden,Fifa,Need for Speed etc and realise that he can play it for half the price on the 360.

Yes Sony do have a very impressive Fall line up but outside of us - the hardcore gamers - do people realise the difference between Fable2,LBP,Fallout3 and CoD5 if they havent even been exposed to them yet?......

[Jacobite]

Good points there ,most dads on a budget will walk into there local Gamestore see Xbox360 from £129 Onwards from core to 120 gig model 4 times the games ,cheaper lots more second hand etc "O" look PS3 £297 ,dearer games and dearer Second hand ,less choice, yip do the maths Even if they think PS3 is better(Getting better)price is a big factor, mind theirs good games on both consoles : )

[cliffbo]

all this whining about the price of the ps3 is a joke it is at a fair price for what you get, when the ps1 came out that was £340 no one carded about its price and we are now over 10 years later and you want it to be less when everything is going up the price of food and electricity and gas ect ect ect im amazed it isn't being sold for over £600 for what you get it is an incredible price. and as for the xbox 360 arcade it is not worth buying no hard drive it is useless without one well i suppose i could use it to keep me door open after all it does have a REALLY BIG POWER BRICK

[Exorgasm]

Maybe I'm being a bit too logical here but being that we here all already own our PS3s and 360s isn't it pointless to care about hardware sales or price drops? Why do any of you care about any of the stupid masturbatory PR quotes or sales announcements?

Neither console is going anywhere anytime soon. Neither will kill the other. They're both awesome and anyone owning only one of the two is missing out on quite a lot.

Do you guys get off on rubbing NPD numbers into the other teams face or even know why you actually care about the overall success of the console? When did the days of just enjoying what you had cease to exist? Why is everyone here so bent on picking the winning horse when none of you get any sort of reward in the end?

[vizigoth]

I really don't think Sony is going to lower the price of the PS3 because if they truly believe their 10 year life span then by the time they reach their halfway point (2011), if they did decide to lower prices periodically they may have a price point of around $199. Which means they roughly have 5 years left selling so cheap that may not even be profitable for them to think about developing a PS4. With the introduction of hard core Sofware Hits still to come, Home, better advertisement for their blu-ray support and games for that matter they can appeal to a larger crowd. I think Sony wants to see if they can at least stike even or exceed MS sales then they are more apt to feel comfortable about dropping the price. I love my PS3 and honestly ever since I've bought the new 80 gig this past August my 360 has only collected dust which a bought from a pawn shop. I still have my PS2 and play it periodically. To wrap it all up Sony in my opinion has the best quality console on the face of the planet. And starting this October and forth Software and Support should uphold and expand that quality even more.

[IVYvsTAKI]

And good god, I can't wait.

[troll]

For the moment a price cut would be the only thing that would justify a buying ps3 for me. I could probably be swayed to pay full price but not until their game library have grown more solid. I just can't bring myself to spend that kind of money only to buy littlebigplanet. On the other hand, I see tempting games in the horizon. Maybe, if I'm persistent, I can have it both ways =)

[damnwrx]

Coz they have soo many games lined up, ppl will be buying it no matter what the cost is. IMO.

[sephy 9 2 5]

game clips like last year? Stuff like the Universe of Entertainment or what they did at E3. People seem to respond to it.

[karlostomy]

They need to become profitable on the current pricing!

If they drop the price AGAIN, then they'll just continue with the losses. And that's not good for Sony shareholders.

After all they don't want to add to the $3.5 billion ps3 loss do they?

[juuken]

And unlike Microsoft, Sony cares about their loses. On the other hand, Microsoft doesn't care how much money they lose because they have an *unlimited* supply of cash.

[cliffbo]

don't you think ms is losing money on the 360 IMHO they are and the reason they are selling it so cheap is because they know it is not got the games that most of us want if they thought there console was anywhere near as good as the ps3 they would not lower its price they would let the hardware sell itself like sony is doing

[karlostomy]

When you make nonsensical statements like the one above.

Come on, Girl, you're smarter than that...

oh wait.

[karlostomy]

http://www.efluxmedia.com/n...

[Stryfeno2]

Sony has recorded bigger losses from commercializing its PlayStation 3 console than it managed to bring in from selling its PlayStation 2; these statistics apply for all the five years the company had been riding the wave. According to some, these losses could add up to no less than $3 billion.

[juuken]

And you two are sooo happy about that, aren'tcha?

Fact: Sony actually cares about their losses.
Fact: Microsoft doesn't give a damn about how much they lose.

[Stryfeno2]

Fact: Juuken you are the BIGGEST fangirl on this site.
Fact: You hate listening to reason.

WAKE UP!!! The PS3 is losing alot of money...Sony knows this, and I'm shock that you don't get it.

[juuken]

"Fact: Juuken you are the BIGGEST fangirl on this site.
Fact: You hate listening to reason."

Fact: You didn't read what I just said you f*cking ignoramus.
Fact: You hate listening to reason as well.

"WAKE UP!!! The PS3 is losing alot of money...Sony knows this, and I'm shock that you don't get it."

WAKE UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!! I didn't deny that you BUFFOON! I said that Sony cares about their loses more than Microsoft. Since 360 fangirls like to claim that Microsoft has unlimited cash, I guess it's only clear that they can lose money on their system.

Continue hanging on to that notion that Sony is losing money. In reality they don't need to drop the price. As long as they keep going with the software, the attachment rate alone will help make a profit.

It's very clear that you two want Sony to fail so that's why you're hanging on to the loses.

[Stryfeno2]

Why are you sooooo mad? How are you going to say Sony cares more.

Are you in their board meetings? I never knew you work for MS...MS are making a Profit on the 360...If they aren't, they must be breaking even.

Anyway, Why don't you just go enjoy your Sony TGS press conference. Oh wait?!!

EDIT: I will be buying a used Patchstation 3 this xmas for used movies..Better yet, I change my mind. The PSh!t3 is not even worth $30 movies.

@Pennywise

Only a fool would make a statement like that...Best system yet it is dead last.

[Pennywise]

Patch - Here is some reason for you... PS3 has the best games coming. Act like Michael and BEAT IT.

[juuken]

"Why are you sooooo mad? How are you going to say Sony cares more."

You are a f*cking jackass. Sony shareholders do care about the Playstation brand. They care about how much is being lost so of course they want to see profits being made. It seems that Sony is depending on their exclusives and bundles to make an impact.

I'm mad? I'm just annoyed because your comments are so idiotic sometimes that it's not even funny,

"Are you in their board meetings? I never knew you work for MS...MS are making a Profit on the 360...If they aren't, they must be breaking even."

I didn't know you work for MS or you sit in their board meetings.

Same thing goes for you.

Microsoft lost 900 million dollars alone for the RROD. Who's to say they're not losing more? How do you know they're actually making a profit to begin with? It's laughable to see that they lost money over something that should have NEVER happen in the first place.

"Anyway, Why don't you just go enjoy your Sony TGS press conference. Oh wait?!!"

Why don't you enjoy your MS press conference? What I do know is that a really amazing looking rpg is coming out and there are several unannounced PS3 exclusives on the way. :)

"EDIT: I will be buying a used Patchstation 3 this xmas for used movies..Better yet, I change my mind. The PSh!t3 is not even worth $30 movies."

Please, I wouldn't want you to waste your money. Don't buy one, please don't. It's clear that you don't realize that the PS3 is a gaming console AND a media center.

[karlostomy]

This is what YOU said:
>>>"Fact: Sony actually cares about their losses."
>>>"Fact: Microsoft doesn't give a damn about how much they lose. "

Are you on drugs, Girl?
Have you lost the plot?

Every Company in the world cares about losses.
There exists NO company nor will there ever exist a company that 'doesn't care about losses'.

Companies exist SOLELY to make Economic Profit!

I am actually disappointed in you, Juuken.
:(

[jamesrocks3147]

i do believe the line up is very good but a price cut also would help sony a great deal! its useally what the customer wants these days and technically ps3 and xbox 360 are differant in hardware how ever both simular in what they offer ps3 does have more of an edge for it but the 360 is alot cheaper

[cliffbo]

yes cheaper poor quality hardware ie RROD ect ect

[Raoh]

the thing is that people are forgetting that adults are actually buying games for themselves. this surge in gamers isnt from parents buying for their kids its kids that grew up and now buy consoles for themselves.

my girlfriends brother and his wife bought a 360 for themselves because they are halo fans not for their 4 year old kids.

most people buying wii's are for themselves not their kids, thats why wii fit and wii sports is so popular. the majority of the wii owners i know are adults with no kids.

the ps3 is a double edged sword. on one hand the guy gets his massive game console and blu ray player. he can push the blu ray player on the wife by enticing her with high def offerings of sex in the city or something. on the other hand the price during these times can be costly but when you push the all in one you get the picture that its actually not that expensive.

(example) a friend convinced his wife that they needed a second ps3. they are upgrading their living room tv and moving it to the bedroom. he already has a tv/game/relax room in the basement with a ps3. with the new tv they were discussing getting a game system and a high def player. when he presented to her the cost of getting a larger tv with a 360 and a blu ray player over just getting the tv and the ps3 which he already has in his game room. she immediately said yes based on cost and value. Not to mention she likes that its one less device in their living room this way.

it's true that a lot of kids are getting things based on what the parents can or cant afford. but the gaming market is growing so much that parents are also looking into what they can get for themselves.. so something that they can enjoy along with their kids is of higher value.

i consider the ps3 to be that higher value.. but in reality its the wii.

the wii is fun and safe (content wise) for the kids as well as fun and interactive for the parents. every home i go to that has a small gathering (drinks, dinner, etc) the wii comes on and the kids are forgotten while all the adults get in on the wii fun. the adults at times have to be reprimanded for not showing the kids around them the meaning of sharing. LOL

_____________________

i've said it again and will say it again. sony knows they can use a price cut. customers would love a price cut. but for their business model its not time. they dropped it a hundred dollars last year. switched manufacturing plants. and invested alot into in house software.

the same way its not financially sound to try to outbid microsoft for dlc its not financially sound to drop the price just to compete. to date the ps3 has been selling better than the 360 this year so they have a little elbow room.

now by the beginning of the next fiscal year sony has two things going for it. an already predicted cost cut in the products used to make the ps3. as well the fact that microsoft really cant cost cut much more for a while.

if sony cut cost now they would still be the more expensive console, so it wouldnt help as much. the wii and the 360 would still be on the surface cheaper..

let microsoft duke it out with the wii for console prices. sony is trying to compete with software.

one last note, why lower the price just before Batman: Dark Knight is released on blu ray

LOL

[Raoh]

also when comparing...

are you comparing the ps3 standard edition with the 360 core?

to cut cost sony would have to strip the ps3 of everything to make it as cheap as the 360 arcade.

no high def player, no wifi, no hard drive and begin charging for online to be as low as the 360

[MAGNUM RAM SUPPORT]

so? For every 1 ps3 sold that's 2 or even 4 xboxes sold.
Who cares? I got my 320gb ps3!

[Mr_Potato_]

no, even with the late price cut, PS3 still outsold 360 WORLDWIDE (stop looking only at the US please) this year like last year.

That says a lot about the relative values of PS3 and 360. Consumers consider the 360 as pure $hit.

[Pennywise]

Xbox wins one month and everyone is praising it... Its like designer clothes compared to Walmart clothes. Look at the price difference and the quality.

Just because a cheaper phone is selling more doesnt mean its better.

[TheMART]

Look at PSN and XBL, the price and the difference in quality.

PSN is a cheap PC like server collection not a real unified network. XBL can't be touched.

BUT your comment is worthless because:

360 is cheaper but

99% of all multiplatform games perform best on the 360. So its the cheapest AND the best gamingdevice.

OUCH!

[jokers]

people trying save money this holiday. Stockmarket suck people dont have money spend.

[hotrider12]

"We aren't making any price moves this holiday season," SCEA's director of corporate communications, Patrick Seybold, stated today. "We have the best line up of any PlayStation generation going into this holiday and consumers will be very receptive to it," he added

I hope sony dont depend on games sales to get them by this christmas holiday. a price drop is seriously needed to maintain with microsoft

[Doctor Strange]

I can understand why, they are still selling at a loss and games like LBP and Resistance 2 are going to sell but if not this year I hope they reduce the price around the time Killzone 2 comes out. Everybody loves a cheaper console.

[Lex Luthor]

They can't afford to drop the price.

[Jacobite]

Maybe, but it may better on the long run, more PS3's out there would be better all round for everyone ,more Devopement teams making games for the PS3,(instead of ports from 360) as a lot more people owning a PS3 cant be a bad thing : )

[retro]

I think Sony can't drop the PS3 price - it's not a question of won't.

[pain777pas]

Sony has great exclusives the 360 does not appeal to me anymore the games I want are coming out for the PS3 so sometimes it comes down to software. The hardware is the best this gen you get everything you want out the box. No offense but 360 and live are way to hype driven and I would never pay for live without a hard drive. What good is that? Plus without a gold membership you don't get access to demos right away and you don't have a hard drive. Arcade model is for the uninformed and impulsive buyer. The PS3 is for the bang for your buck crowd. I would advise all to just look at the games you want to play and buy the system with those games but take into consideration what your paying for and all the hidden costs involved because when I got my 360 in 2006 all in all it cost more than my PS3 and it has free online play.

[TheMART]

o_O

Sony getting arrogant again thinking people buy even if the price is too high (compared to competition)

They were so stupid once before, at launch. They really don't learn at all do they...

[Figboy]

admitted they were dropping the price?

*cricket* *cricket*

Sony is notorious for denying ANY price drops, only to have a "surprise" price drop a few months later.

Sony is a business. a business that has been around for 60 years. they know what they are doing.

why discourage people who are interested in buying the console NOW, when Christmas is still 3 months away?

if you ran a business, would you want potential customers waiting 3 months until they bought your product in anticipation of a price drop?

personally, I WOULDN'T.

so they stall. say they aren't dropping the price (like they did LAST time people suspected a PS3 price drop; they denied, only to drop the price later), and then sometime in late November , they announce an immediate price drop.

Sony is completely aware what the price drop has done for the 360, and people are foolish to think they aren't planning a counter move (i mean, do people have such short term memories? didn't we go through this song and dance LAST YEAR?).

why don't people get on Nintendo's case about the price of the Wii? i mean, after nearly 2 years people are STILL paying $250 for a suped up Gamecube (just look at the "Wii-makes" library, and tell me it isn't a Gamecube with a new controller).

[enjoi187]

hahahahahaha

[aggh im on fire]

I love the ps3 but if they don't drop the price they will get screwed by microsoft and nintendo come christmas.

[Ace-Jury]

look for a ps3 bundle inwhich customers can chose a 'premium' game.

these include LBP, resistence2 (cant remember the rest but there is about 5)

this is for PAL at least

[cmrbe]

once officially stated that there is no price cut one day before they actually cut the price. Anything is possible.

Sony generally always follow their own strategies which suits their own goals.

[Crazywhitie]

Here why sony CAN'T drop the price yet... With Xbox 360 it's a Gameing Console First, it doesn't have to look at the market to make it's price drops.. Sony's PS3 is a Blu-ray Player... Everything about ps3 is Bluray.. So if Sony drops the price of the ps3 to say $199, that's telling the market that Stand alone Bluray Players should be priced at around $100.... because they don't have the Features of the ps3... You'll see a Price drop when Bluray Players have a Price Drop

[HairyBrownSack]

Gamers: We still won't buy your overpriced, overhyped movie player.

poooooooor droids :(

[GoldenBoy]

Has anyone thought that it is not prudent to comment on price drops before they happen. Look at the 360 sales when the 360 price drop was leaked. They dropped significantly because people waited. If I were Sony and were thinking about a price drop I wouldn't tell anyone because sales would dry up. I am sure that Sony is talking about a price drop but will only release it if PS3 sales performance drops. I mean they need to be prepared for that in case the tide completely turns in MS favour. My guess is that strategically they are hoping that the brand and games carry them through the holiday season with strong sales figures but if volume drops by say 50% then I am sure they are tactically prepared to do a price drop to spur sales.

Its just business.

[CertifiedGamer]

Price it at 300 dollars wouldn't be a bad idea.

[xg-ei8ht]

Sony all u need to do is advertise around 4.30pm in uk's main channels & put on lbp.

Game set&match.

[Jecht]

Why would a console that has been BEATING the 360 this year WITHOUT a price cut and, as the fanboys would say, WITHOUT games need a price cut?

Can someone explain to me how Microsoft selling a gimped arcade unit, and is ending the RROD warranty NEXT MONTH, is somehow a major threat to the PS3?

Whether the fanboys want to believe it or not, people will EVENTUALLY want to game online, that's when Microsoft's overpriced proprietary accessories will bite them in the a$$.

For the LAST time, the PS3 DOES NOT need a price cut. If it did, Microsoft would be winning the year, and so far they aren't.

**EDIT** BTW, you can type a$$ without using any censoring apparently. The only reason I did is because I don't want to suffer consequences.

[NipGrip]

People claim "Oh people may not want to play online.." when you mention the Live fees and wireless adapter, yet.. Isn't that what MS's whole angle on things was? Their online service? Do people want to be online or not?

At the price point, the Arcade unit is fending off the Wii and the PS2 while the Elite is against the PS3. PS3 and Wii all the way this holidays.

[Jecht]

Exactly. Microsoft tried to carve their own niche with Live, and built entire business models around it. Even going so far as to say that Digital Distribution (championed by Live on consoles) would replace disc media (NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN WITH BANDWIDTH CAPS BECOMING THE NORM) to further show their commitment to their online service.

To have an Xbox brand console and NOT game online, is to be experiencing only half of the experience. Microsoft is adamant about the online offerings of games on the 360. It is ludicrous to believe that people will simply ignore extra features that they could use. Microsoft knows that, and that's why they can charge whatever they want for their proprietary HDD's, WiFi adapters, and even Live Gold memberships.

The very idea that some people think that selling a substandard console is a smart thing really diminishes my faith in the intelligence of gamers as a whole. How can anyone say that, in this day and age of gaming, selling a console that doesn't have a standard HDD which basically eliminates online gaming from being a decent option is a smart move? It was dumb when they launched the Arcade unit (formerly known as the Core unit) and it's still a dumb idea.

[-M4verick-]

hahahahhaa PS3

[Lord Vader]

Bottomline: Sony can't afford a pricewar with Micro or Nintendo. Their production costs are much higher.

[Figboy]

but i'd think their margin for profit would be higher as well, considering that, unlike Microsoft, Sony is making money from games, movies, music, and their other consumer electronics like TVs and stand alone Blu Ray players. not to mention the PSP and PS2 are doing great, and have been, all the way through the PS3's rocky launch.

basically, what i'm saying is that, outside of overpriced peripherals, MS' gaming division doesn't really have much else to pull in income from besides LIVE subscription fees, and Sony, thanks to Howard Stringer, has become more unified, so their various branches (ie, movie, music, games, consumer electronics), are all invested in the PS3's success, since it embodies ALL of those things for the company as a whole.

if Sony needed to, i could see them dropping the price.

but considering that the PS3 has outsold the 360 for over half of this year so far, they don't have much incentive to.

Microsoft is in the lead, and yet they are slashing prices left and right. why? unless demand has plateaued, while the PS3 is on an INCREASE.

with that said, i can totally see Sony dropping the price of the PS3 to $300-$350 by years end, not including bundle units (which i'd peg as being $400-$450 still).

[DrzBigChris]

they would need a price cut for the time when Killzone 2 comes out early next year because if they keep this up they are not catching anyone even doh i think they can but people look for more affordable not value.

[Ju]

I don't understand this "need a price cut" and "when this game comes out". Isn't it, that the game will raise demand ? Thus making it easier to sell HW when a blockbuster drops ? KZ2 is THE showcase title for the PS3. I mean, if they drop the price, then it should be afterward, I'd guess.

[ReBurn]

Agreed, Ju. It doesn't make much sense to call for a system price cut in order to sell a new game. If Sony wants to sell consoles put Killzone 2 in the higher priced bundle and watch people walk away with them. Happened for Motorstorm, happened for MGS4. It would also happen for Killzone 2.

Bubbbles, Ju. Good post.

[Jsynn7]

You know, it's getting real tires how people cry about the price of the PS3. I've heard a few people say that when you buy a PS3, it's not just buying it, your investing in it. With any investment, you want to make sure that in 5 or 10 years your investment will still be strong and over come any obstacle. The PS3 is future proof with it's kick ass cell processor, firmware updates, and massive Blu-Ray storage space. You gotta think about down the line. Will the 360 be able to keep up with gaming technology growing at an alarming rate? Will game devs get to truly realize the dreams of a perfect game? 10 years from now, will it still be a the top of the industry? I don't think so. With the PS3, game devs are trying to keep up with it and now their beginning to which means that M$ better start hardcore planning for the future. Sony, I think, can sit back for a bit and not worry about gaming advancements because the PS3 is more than ready for them. If you a person who is looking for something that will stand the test of time, the PS3 is the system and at the price that it's at now, I'd say that's pretty cheap.

[Snukadaman_]

Someone tell sony that we are in a economic depression....If MGS4 could not sell consoles like people believed, how can sequels from some mediocre IPS be responsible for a upsurge....only thing people are waiting for is a price drop for the ps3......not games..not home....not new features.

[Jecht]

Since the 360's game offerings this year have been abysmal so far. And by comparison to what Sony's offering this month alone, it doesn't look to be any better for the 360.

[LoydX-mas]

Gears of war 2 and Fable 2 will totally suck.

[Jecht]

Try to put some effort into your lame sarcasm and learn to read while you're at it.

[Pseudo_Clash]

If Sony had charged for their online service, not included the built in wifi, or blue tooth then dropping the price would make sense. Xbox is capable of doing so only because they make up the discount with add ons (wifi, hddvd, etc) people end up purchasing and the XBL service you end up paying for. The sad part is no one gets the value of a PS3 and how you're saving in the long run. I had an argument with a friend who was debating on whether to purchase one of these consoles. He ended up going for the Xbox because of the $199 price tag. But after buying a hdd and paying for XBL his cost jumped another $150. The moron didn't care because all he saw was that $199 price tag and to him a PS3 was over priced. Consumers just aren't that bright. They look at what they are spending at that moment and are too compulsive and eager to think about added expenses later. Microsoft's approach seems a little deceiving but they understand the American consumer and their impulsive, "i want it cheap and now" ways. Sony is more on the wavelength of Asians and Europeans who more thoughtful about their finances.

[PSWe60]

I think they will drop the price without notice.
If they were to announce a date when they would drop the price, people would hold off on buying a PS3 until that date in order to save money. That would mean a big loss for Sony between now and the price drop because no one would buy.
On the other hand by keeping their mouths shut people will continue to buy the PS3 w/o anticipation of a price drop.

That or they're going to release a s#it load of bundles which is pretty much played out by this point. Just drop the price and sales will continue to soar.

[Firstkn1ghT]

Like I been saying all along, the world is in serious trouble with financial problems. The expensive bluray format will take a HUGE hit because of this. The 360 is in the affordable price range for families looking to get a gaming system. The 360 is cruising all the way with it. Sony needs another price cut or it WILL lose this holiday season and the 360 will increase its overall console lead.

[Ju]

BD ... bla bla .. well, go out and tell all the people who bought Iron Man on BD about this. This one reached 20% of total sales - according to you on a dead format. We'll see. Spending money on gaming if you got no cash is tough this time around anyway. It'll hit the 360 also, no matter how cheap it is.

[ReBurn]

I bought Iron Man on Blu-ray. Totally worth it and Blu-ray is not dead. $60 for a new game will mean that companies in the used game business are going to do great. People will trade games to get new ones and others will buy used games to keep from having to pay full price for new.

The hobby won't dry up. People will just get creative with how they keep it going.

[Jecht]

No seriously, you are. PEOPLE ARE BEING GOUGED BY MICROSOFT THROUGH THEIR PROPRIETARY HDD'S AND ACCESSORIES!!! THIS MEANS THAT THE 360 IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE PS3 FOR THE SAME EXPERIENCE.

Do you get it? I wrote that in capital letters to try and make you understand. People will be buying a gimped console, who's warranty on the RROD will run out NEXT MONTH, and will have to pay a MINIMUM of $250 just to get an HDD and a WiFi adapter, maybe more depending on what they want. You're looking at a MINIMUM total price of $450 just to get the same experience the PS3 offers on it's low end SKU's. And don't try to feed me the B.S. that "maybe people won't want to game online" because then I can just use the "maybe people don't want to play PS2 games on their PS3" when you 360 fanboys bring up B.C.

Oh and BTW, seems that there's going to be a BD add-on for the 360 as well.

[LoydX-mas]

The 360 arcade IS able to play on-line WITHOUT a hard drive:

http://support.microsoft.co...

The RROD warranty will ALWAYS be a 3-year warranty from the date you purchase:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/s...

So for $199 Arcade 360 plus a $49 Live Gold membership, anyone can play online. $250, that's it, no matter what else you say someone needs.

[wazborn]

i really wish sony the best on their decision on keepin the price that way, coz to be honest its expensive in this times.. look all around u most ppl are not havin it easy with all the crap that is going on with the economy, US needs 700 billion dollars to sort its economy, UK just signed a 2 trillion pounds to rescue the banks from the economic mess.. its happening everywhere i dont see a family with kids to feeding going to by a ps3.. and to make things worse the 360 reduced again!!.. i am already hearing ppl with the Wii saying they are pickin up the 360 since its the next thing they would like.. well its just my thought .. we will see what happens anyway..

[IVYvsTAKI]

There is some great discussion going on here.

On the one hand, you have people who believe that the current economic climate will have an affect on how people choose to spend their money this holiday season. I think it will, because the economy sucks right now and if you aren't watching your spending, you're a moron. To that end, there's also price comparisons between the PS3 and all these stripped down 360 consoles that, when you add on all the extras again cost the same or more than the PS3!

But it isn't really that simple, is it? Will someone really be satisfied this holiday season with a stripped 360 just because it's cheaper? Is it really cheaper, or are these consumers going to end up paying for all the extras anyway?

Someone earlier said it best: find out what games you wanna play, find out where you can play those games and get that console. Because in the end as we've all seen, the 360 and the PS3 cost the same.

But wait, that doesn't mean you're getting the same things for your money. One of these consoles has more value than the other in my opinion. Guess which one it is...

So, is a SONY price-drop coming? Is it necessary? I tend to agree with anyone who is aware of SONY's previous actions and can see their patterns and can guess what's next. I don't think they need to drop the price, but if they did, that would make things interesting. If I'm SONY, I'm not trying to lose anymore money on my console, but I wanna stay close in the race. Maybe I don't drop the price on my beast-machine because I'm counting on the consumer to do their research and see that my product gives more bang for the buck, and in the long run it's the better buy.

Keep up the good discussions, it's why I check this site all the time.

[GameDev]

Sony doesn't need a pricedrop because M$ isn't cutting into their sales.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

18 million is how many Sony sold the 2nd year of the PS2. Now compare that to this gen's 2nd year and tell me if MS isn't "cutting in"? The PS3 is last, and will stay that the rest of this gen.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

I'm thinking dodo bird

[silverchode]

i think theyll drop the price around the time kz2 comes out.

[No Way]

It would seem like a stupid move not to lower the price to combat the 360's low price. But, when you factor in the cost to manufacture the PS3 and how much money Sony has lost, it seems like a rather good reason to not lower the price, at least from their point of view.

If not this year, I wonder when they will lower next year?

[likedamaster]

agreed.

[Raptors]

I'd normally say the ps3 would be just fine at the current price point. But with the way the economy is going right now, I don't know how many people are going to pony up $400 for a system when there's one available for $200. You can turn blue in the face saying all the features the ps3 has, when it comes down to it an extra $200 is ALOT of money to alot of people.

[FF7numba1]

funny thing is people only buy whats necessary. SO if they can't afford the ps3 and u want it just dont buy it. Thats what i'm doing. I refuse to by crappy hardware because its cheap(x360,rrod). Not to mention paying to play only shouldn't cost me. Just bought a 9600 gt and some games. High end graphic cards are cheaper than 360 + addons. PC> 360.

Final the blu-ray only is worth the extra 200+ then add in free online, wifi,company experience and reliable hardware. all together those value more than 360 it sell.

[ReBurn]

I think that the PS3 is going to do well without a price drop. If Sony can keep good bundles in the stores then they can make the extra cost worth it.

[HB-Sauce]

there better be some serious advertising for Sony's exclusives this holiday if they want to shift consoles.

[FF7numba1]

yes M$ owns them in advertising last commercial i saw for sony was nba only on playstation commercial.

[likedamaster]

Smart move. I think Sony's lost too much money with the price drops prior, they need to get that money back. The price is fine, I'm not complaining. The ps3 has a lot of features AND bluray 2.0, it's worth every penny.

[gersh]

The price is FINE.

[DARKTRINITYxxx]

LOL you xbots are so blind the only reson MS have made so many price drops is so obvious. Sony have a much better lineup starting this month and many months to come. MS doesent have so much to offer and as a resort they dropped the price on thier console a few times to make it look more tempting if ure a 1st time console buyer. Its the only viable way they have a chance of surviving Sonys stampede. We all know Sony is gaining groud very quickley. Anysways enjoy ure little selection of exclusive games and DLC. Im a PS3 owner that will be so busy with all the goodness Sony are putting our way these comming weeks and months. Sony really dont need to drop thier prices because they know they have the better lineup this christmas and next year.

[THUNDERMARE]

No company in their right mind will announced "People, we will reduce our product price this holiday, sooooo beeee preeeepareeee"

why?? because then no one will buy their product now because everyone knows that in 2-3 months they will get it at a cheaper price,

my point is, Sony will not announce when they will reduce price because that will effect their logistic, pricing, projection and so on. The price cut could happen tomorrow, so just hold your breath on that because Sony will absolutely come up with something. They are not one of the world biggest electronic manufacturer for nothing.

[FF7numba1]

From microeconomics point a view sony is doing the right thing and M$ price drop isn't what the company wanted. Obviously M$ couldn't change the demand for xbox 360s(not talking jrpgs spikes). So they lower their price to increase demand which only works because economy is crumbling so the cheaper the better. PLus, before the price drop ps3 and 360 sales were close or ps3 was leading. Instead of lowering the ps3's price sony is trying to change the demand for the ps3. Which is the normal for any company trying to make money.

[UnasFortuna]

Doesn't matter to me one way or the other as I have two of them already. However, I don't think Sony is taking into consideration the state of the economy in the US currently (which has affected other nations as well). Alot of purse strings will be kept under tighter control for awhile now even if it is out of fear of what is to come if it does get worse. To be honest though... if they are relying on their lineup alone this season.... I have not seen too many commercials/advertising announcing such a lineup. I think this is Sony's biggest problem.... lack of mainstream advertising. I hope their season goes as well as they plan for I loves me some Sony.

[Citizen Cook]

'Sony has recorded bigger losses from commercializing its PlayStation 3 console than it managed to bring in from selling its PlayStation 2; these statistics apply for all the five years the company had been riding the wave. According to some, these losses could add up to no less than $3 billion.'

All true ^^^

While M$ is MAKING money on its 360, even after the RRoD Billion and price cut, Sony continue to LOSE money. Last gen, M$ could afford it, this gen, Sony can't. They arn't as strong and powerful and rich as M$. This is hurting them like a kick to the nuts.

I like it!

I wouldn't be surprised to see sony leave the console business within the next 1-2 years. They can't take the pounding we see them getting here. At the rte they are selling consoles, (and piling on the debt) they will NEVER catch M$. Its clear M$ are pullng out in head now again, and PS3rd has no chance of catching up...

Maybe they should repackage the PS2 with a Wii-like remote and Blu-Ray call it a PS4... Cancel the PS3, and start making some MONEY!!!

HA HA HA HA!

I actualy think sONY have given up hope for the PS3rd now, they are just riding the wave of desperation...

http://www.efluxmedia.com/n...

[Silogon]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch

Really all I have to say.