Bluehole Lashing Out Against Epic over Fortnite's Battle Royale Mode Is Downright Embarrassing

Bluehole's rash attack of Epic over Fortnite's Battle Royale mode is downright embarrassing and probably the worst PR move in a long time. It's chock-full of false statements.

[codelyoko]

They are just like parvenues. They're new to the big leagues and clearly can't handle the success yet

[Thatguy-310]

The funny thing is that if they hadn't complain about it a lot of people would've ignored it and not pay attention to it. They put the spotlight on it themselves.

[nX]

They clearly don't deserve the success of PUBG, they ripped countless other games themselves.

[warriorcase]

Exactly. Have a few friends that never ended up getting PUBG, now theres this free to play game that everyone can just jump into and check out. I have PUBG myself but after this much hooaa and carryone I think im gonna check it out to see how it is.

[Edito]

You are right because now i know that Fortnite exist and i will check some gameplays on youtube lol...

[badz149]

I think they are pissed because now they actually have to push for quicker full release and they are feeling like being forced out of their early access heaven. if they stay longer in early access and Fortnite fully released first, then people will start calling them out

[SkippyPaccino]

More money, more problems.... Cocain is a hell of a drug also.... Basically Bluehole in a nutshell

[camel_toad]

The ironic thing is that this is free and likely huge publicity for Fortnite. A lot of people that may have not heard of it most certainly have now since one of the most popular games at the moment is targeting it.

[Thatguy-310]

And now many will try it out.

[rainslacker]

It's quite impressive just how much more attention fortnite is getting since this all started. Before it was just the occasional article, and I'd wager most people probably forgot about it in the wake of things like Overwatch. Kind of in the same league as Palladins. people know about it but it's not getting much press.

It's only going to help Fortnite. I don't think it'll have a significant effect on PUBG, but at the same time, it may make it less of a thing if it comes to other platforms later, or cause people to try out Fortnite more on PC since it's getting noticed it's out and free, thus taking away focus from their own work.

If there really was something here worth pursuing on Bluehole's part, they should have waited before making a public comment and made sure they had something to pursue. At least then they'd have something to back up. As it is, they just come across as the petty new kids on the block, and we've seen plenty of good devs brought down by their own ego.

[Chris_Wray]

Can't see how they have a right to complain. It's not like they invented the concept, all they've done is refine it. Now, Epic are just going to attempt to refine it even further. This is what competition is and considering Bluehole have put in the F2P gambling boxes in PlayerUnknown, I have no sympathy nor empathy for them.

[yeahokwhatever]

You don't even understand the problem. Its got very little do with with "borrowing" the game concept. Epic Games provides Bluehole with the game engine being used in their title. Now they're a direct competitor. There's plenty of reason to believe improvements to the core engine will be withheld in order to give Epic a competitive advantage. It's also now possible Epic games will steal Bluehole's code to use on their own title because apparently they have access to it. If this was EA and not Epic, the articles would be worded differently and you all would be up in arms against EA.

[Razzer]

you really the for one second that Epic would need to steal code from pubg? Please.

BH is butthurt. That is all.

[equal_youth]

You're so wrong that it hurts. Do you work for EA or why bring them Up? Why should Epic hold something back? If you license a product, you license it, there is no holding Back, because if they would choose to do so, they need to hold it back for all of their customers which will Hurt business. Epic is not the First company to implement BR and they won't be the Last. Simple as that. Now of you would Bring Up frostbite engine(which Nobody wants anyway, besides that it is an inhouse engine) IT would be no different.

[TheGoodestBoi]

@yeahokwhatever
Yeah, ok. Whatever.

[TejasTV]

Pubg probably signed an agreement that covers epic. They can switch engines. It's a lot of work but this is why the big guys are the big guys. It's not fair at all but looking for a solution is the way to go not making an outcry to the public. It's silly.

[ShadowWolf712]

Epic technically competes with literally any game using their engine that might be in the same genre. But Epic also rolls out updates equally to said engine for devs to use. They're not gonna withhold those updates from all their licensees just because of one game, nor will they isolate said game and get sued. Come off it.

[yeahokwhatever]

Why not? PUBG does a lot of really uncommon stuff for that engine. Again, you're arguing from a point of ignorance. Why assume work done by some engineers isn't valuable to others?

[rainslacker]

Epic provides the game engine for roughly 30% of all games made nowadays. Is Epic never supposed to make a game because someone else is making something similar to what they're working on? Even if they took the idea from Bluehole, Epic isn't restricted from competiting in the market. There is no wrong doing here.

There is no reason to believe improvements to the core engine will be withheld in order to give Epic a competative advantage. Never in their history have they been accused or known to do this. They often release all the tech they build for all their licensees once they deem it ready to release. Every tool used for Unreal Tournament and Gears of War were included in their engines before or soon after those games released.

On top of that, it's pure speculation that they had to create anything specific to implement BR in Fortnite.

On that note, did Bluehole create some technology for PUBG that they feel Epic is somehow using inappropriately, or is Epic releasing a game using technolgy they created....not just the engine, but any tools attached to that engine. If so, it means Epic has done more than Bluehole has done, and since they created the tech, they are free to use it first, and before releasing it within their engine as they see fit.

It's pure assumption that Epic is stealing Bluehole's code. Epic makes the engine that PUBG runs on. The creator of PUBG has said very publicly that he's not a coder, and while they have coders I'm sure, Epic has more expertise in making new ways to do things than almost every developer in the industry.. It's laughable to assume that Epic somehow had to steal code, when everything in PUBG could be done with a decent knowledge of the engine itself.

There is absolutely no ethical problem here that I can see. Their complaints seem to be based on hypothetical situations that may or may not exist, and trying to explain it the way you do just shows that is the case.

In order to support your argument answer these questions

1. What reasons are there to believe improvements will be withheld from the core engine, and how exactly does that give Epic a competitive advantage if they created said tech in the first place for use in THEIR OWN PRODUCT?

2. Why would Epic steal Bluehole's code? What code within PUBG is so unique that it couldn't be derived on it's own with a decent knowledge of game design?

3. What does EA have to do with it? Is the potential double standards of the community somehow relevant to if Epic is in the wrong?

So, yeah, we don't understand the problem in the way that Bluehole is presenting it, because there is no problem except them being irrational.

"PUBG does a lot of really uncommon stuff for that engine"

No, it really doesn't. In fact, based on what I've seen of the game, and what short time I tried it out, I would say that almost everything in it can be implemented using nothing but in engine functions and script. Maybe with a bit of external C code thrown in.

[WelkinCole]

You are nuts if you think Epic would steal code from bluehole.

First of all Epic does not need to. Secondly there is no way in hell Epic would steal code because it will the end of them if they do.

[zerocarnage]

That is such horse crap lol

[UCForce]

Yup, this is just getting ridiculous from BlueHole.

[KaiPow]

Really don't see how Bluehole can get out of this without a proper apology..

[WePlayDirty]

Fortnite's Battle Royal mode isn't that bad.. I just wish people started with guns first..

[neocores8055]

THen that would just take away the point of the mode lol

[WePlayDirty]

Everyone starts with the same gun. Let it be a pistol.

[WePlayDirty]

The mode is literally last man standing... having a simple gun, like a pistol at the beginning wouldn’t detract from that.

[SilverDemon]

Yes it would.
If I had a gun the moment I hit the ground,I would look up and kill anyone who still im the air(parachuting). It will be who drops to the ground first

Not having a gun gives the other a chance to reach the ground while I look for a gun to shoot

[WePlayDirty]

That's why you don't make it able to shoot until everyone is on the ground.

[SilverDemon]

So if someone take their sweet time (forever) to reach the ground, we should just sit there doing nothing?cuz I'll do that just to troll 99 player 😂😂

Also, most people would choose to start with sniper to shoot other from afar and NEVER come close to buildings.

Finally it would take away the randomness of the game. You never now what you or others have

So here is how I would play if I start with a gun.1.pick a sniper 2.drop as far as possible to never in counter players 3. Snipe every one from afar. But the fact that I cant do that because I need to get close to buildings to refill ammo which mean getting close to other make this OP strategy usless

[whothedog]

How dare you have an idea to alter gameplay!

[NarooN]

He can have ideas, but that doesn't make them any good. Some people aren't cut out to be game designers and unfortunately many actual game designers have shit tier ideas just like that.

[subtenko]

no way, its fine like it is, and of course it can all improve, thing just came out not even officially done, but its free. compared with PUBG...ill take fornite

[fromchildren]

Play overwatch then

[WePlayDirty]

Lmao. No

[PhoenixUp]

It's embarrassing when any developer thinks they own an entire genre to themselves

[Goldby]

its embarrassing when people think that that is the reason behind all of this.

it has nothing to do with the genre at all. actually read up on the reasons why they spoke out about Epic and their use of Pubg as marketing for fortnite battle royale

[Liqu1d]

They're allowed to. They're also crying about nonexistent issues like Epic reserving engine optimizations for themselves. They wanted Epic to talk to them beforehand yet Epic have no obligation to do so, if they want to tackle the Battle Royale genre then they can.

Bluehole are afraid of competition from big companies and since Fortnite BR is the closest thing to a true Battle Royale game that has come from a major company they are trying to make Epic look bad, except it's backfired. They should concentrate on their game instead of being babies.

[Aurenar]

What? They merely cited PUBG AND H1Z1 as games in the genre they've been inspired from. What's the problem with that?...

[rainslacker]

The stated reasons are embarrassing enough. Not only are they accusing Epic of wrongdoing with no proof, they're assuming things are happening that may or may not be happening, and postulating an outcome that paints Epic as anti-competitive. This is all despite the fact that Epic has no history of doing this kind of thing, and Epic has a history of producing popular games in genres where it's licensee's are also making similar products, and there has never once been an issue before.

[ccgr]

Imitation is a form of flattery

[badz149]

apparently not for Bluehole. for them, imitation sounds like lawsuit!

[yeahokwhatever]

Epic Games sucks and are incredibly shady at this point. This move puts them in the same box as EA.

[ecchiless]

oh stfu

[Cybermario]

so was not only Pewdiepie huh, these guys are so full of smug they think they invented the genre? Look at notch, he never complained about the trillions of devs copying Minecraft.

[subtenko]

good example

[yeahokwhatever]

orly?

[Kingdomcome247]

I bet you're just the life of the party wherever you go...

OT: This is such a strange situation. Bluepoint's actions are a prime example of what happens when you start from false premises, and then attempt to further reason your way to justification.

[LavaLampGoo]

Like I understand why, at the studio you might hear people grumbling about it, but to do it so publicly is a good way of losing respect. They were not the first to play with the genre, they can't expect to be the last.

[neocores8055]

TBH i think bluehole i just pissed... One its free to play. 2. Its coming out tomorrow 3. Its coming to CONSOLES which is one that i think really pissed them off. I thin kthey wanted to be first on consoles and now that its going to be FORTNITE first it will take sales from them. TBH its not even bad it plays like PUBG but you can craft stuff its insane what you can do if you roll in a squad

[subtenko]

squads are gonna be some much fun!! :D bluehole did this to themselves

[Yohshida]

They work together with Epic to make sure Unreal Engine works better with more people on the map = making Battle Royale work smoother. Epic is learning a lot from them and using that in their own game, fortnite. Of course they are pissed Epic uses their knowledge to build a competitor. But they dont have to, Fortnite is a waste of time.

[UCForce]

Well, Frotnite got a free advertisement. BlueHole just shot themselves in the foot.

[Yohshida]

I dont think anyone even cares about fortnite. With 1.5 million concurrent players they got nothing to worry about. Fortnite had to go free 2 play because they couldnt fill up matches. Yeah, thats that.

[UCForce]

Sure, but that doesn't mean Fornite is a waste of time. One day, some others follow the suit and will have their own spin and can do better than PUGB. Of course, it's entirely subjective. But one thing for sure, everyone will affected by the influence and they will follow. It's happen every time in last generation and new generation.

[quenomamen]

They need to shut up, they already cashed the check from MS for one year exculsivity, now they mad cuz someone beat them to the punch on consoles making their product less valuable.

[spaceg0st]

I love that they sign a timed exclusive launch with xbox, then get all whiney when another computer swoops in and releases a similar game. As a ps4 owner, I'm glad Fortnite is cloning PUB... suck it Bluehole, enjoy your xbox launch.

[OB1Biker]

There's some irony about that little drama indeed. They didn't seem to be interested in reaching as many gamers as possible in the first place.

[fromchildren]

Another computer?

[XStation4pio_Pro]

I’m excited for PUBG coming to xb1 but seriously... get over it. Two different games and as far as I know, no one can own a “type” of game. Your numbers are crushing it, PUBG. Own that and show some confidence. You are after all still winning.

[ecchiless]

Actually Epic is "winning" they get money from bh, more sales = more money for epic, they also get money from their game so yea, Epic is winning.

[BlindGuyMcSqueazy]

Am I the only one that doesn't think their statement was out of line? They didn't say anything outrageous.

"We’ve had an ongoing relationship with Epic Games throughout PUBG’s development as they are the creators of UE4, the engine we licensed for the game. After listening to the growing feedback from our community and reviewing the gameplay for ourselves, we are concerned that Fortnite may be replicating the experience for which PUBG is known.

We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don’t feel that it’s right."

.

What is everyone upset about?

[TC731]

Have you even played or watched Fortnite? It's leagues different. It includes crafting, base-building, a completely different art style...it's like they're saying Team Fortress 2 ripped off COD4.

[yeahokwhatever]

lol look at the maps. Epic didn't even try to make it different. They did their best to make it the same.

[badz149]

" we are concerned that Fortnite may be replicating the experience for which PUBG is known"

for example, just think of FPS as a genre. does one FPS really THAT different form the others? I don't think so. the same with this. it's like 2K saying EA is wrong for doing NBA Live and Blizzard saying other hero based shooters are Overwatch copy and need to be taken down.

[BlindGuyMcSqueazy]

Except bluehole isn't asking Epic to take their game down. All they did was state that there are similarities and that they're contemplating further action. What is wrong with that?

[OB1Biker]

'we don’t feel that it’s right."
Definitely implies' they are wrong' and you get an arguement specially as you pointed out they r contemplating further action.
They are the ones looking for bad blood

[BlindGuyMcSqueazy]

That quote is in regards to the fact that Epic is using PUBG in their promotional content to help sell their product. Nothing to do with the similarities between the games.

Sharpen up your reading comprehension skills.

[OB1Biker]

'Sharpen up your reading comprehension skills.'
or just read the piece, its trying to answer your question and you have good comprehension skills I'm sure

[BlindGuyMcSqueazy]

Or you could just read the quote directly from Bluehole.

"We have also noticed that Epic Games references PUBG in the promotion of Fortnite to their community and in communications with the press. This was never discussed with us and we don’t feel that it’s right."

Its bad business practice to take your customer's product and use it to advertise for your own product that is in direct competition. There is nothing wrong with creating a competing product but you cant promote using someone else's work without permission. Especially when they're a direct customer of yours.

Nothing about that complaint is out of line.

[rainslacker]

I've had an ongoing relationship with Epic games for close to a decade as well. The quote seems to indicate that they simply licensed the engine. While I'm sure there is tech support involved in that, what relationship beyond the license agreement exists to assume that Epic is somehow doing something wrong here?

Notice that they say they're concerned that Fortnite may be replicating the experience for which PUBG is known? What does that mean? Sounds like it means that they don't like competition, and somehow feel that no one else is allowed to implement a similar concept to their own because they have some perceived exclusivity to that genre, and that because they license the engine, Epic is precluded from making a competing product.

As far as why are people upset. It comes down to the dev even making the statement in the first place, somehow insinuating that Epic is doing something wrong, without actually stating what that is directly, and saying things like their lawyers are looking into it and that they may pursue legal action. If there is some legal thing here, then fair enough, but they jumped the gun on the public accusation and condemnation.

[OB1Biker]

So this is the reference they are upset about:
'We love Battle Royale games like PUBG and thought Fortnite would make a great foundation for our own version'
and thats all. 'We love Battle Royale games like PUBG'

Whatever man.

[BlindGuyMcSqueazy]

When you have an IP worth millions you do what you can to protect it. You also expect companies you do business with to ask for permission before using your name for promotional purposes. Especially for a competing product.

It wad a bad oversight by Epic to not reach out to Bluehole prior to dropping the PUBG name.

[TC731]

Instead of whining and bitching, the developers should be trying to make their games even better. Give the consumer reason to want your game above all the others.

Minecraft's still the gold standard in their market because the devs are constantly making it better.

[badz149]

they are too happy to be staying in Early Access and reap money from suckers and then release DLC one after another while still in Early Access to suck more money from people. now, Fortnite is coming and it's actually getting released while PUBG is still basically a beta. people will call them out for trying to scam people using Early Access. that's what they are pissed about

[opinionated]

I agree, what a joke. "Controversies" in the gaming industry are embarrassing, 98% of them anyway. I wonder if they are going to trash that "scum" game that also stole the idea from battle royale. This makes the studio incredibly unlikable.

[TC731]

Battle Royale = god-tier novel, manga, and movie

[opinionated]

I have only seen the movie but it is great for sure. Have you seen BR2? I have been wondering if it's any good.

[Blu3_Berry]

Bluehole thinks that they are all high and mighty, but as soon as they see the big boys have a similar style to their game their true colors are shown. Honestly they are acting like a bunch of babies. Welcome to the industry where developers borrow eachothers ideas and make them better.

[Dragonscale]

Fortnite looks the better game tbh.

[Skuletor]

To be honest, naming your company "Bluehole" is embarrassing. I don't know what a Bluehole is but it sounds gross. Like a Smurf's butthole or something.

[subtenko]

not really....

pink hole maybe...even that, you're just using your interpretation.... blackhole also probably sounds like butthole to you, but to many its a scientific term... :/

I dislike bluehole right now, but im not making fun of their name

[Usperg]

They are Brownholes

[subtenko]

Keep on lashing out over BS and I wont plan on getting PUBG....why you so panicked? I like Fornite its fun and its BR is free and the rest of the game will be free. How about you do something to impress me and win me over instead of complaining because thats not gonna make me buy PUBG, then theres the fact that I have other games lined up...yall better get movin....

[yeahokwhatever]

No it isn't. They have plenty of real reasons to be upset about this and worry. It has a lot to do with Epic games being the company they get their engine from now becoming their direct competition. I'd be worried, too. Also, in my opinion, they "borrowed" a bit too much.

[rainslacker]

Were all those developers worried last gen when Epic released Gears of War, despite not being the first third person shooter to use the engine, nor the last for the generation, or even into this gen?

Since every technology built for Gears of War, or Unreal Tournament was made available in the game engine....since Epic's games started out to traditionally be tech demos for said engine....why is it a problem now just because this one dev made a popular game, and now Epic has a mode within their own game which replicates it in some way?

Epic could have become their direct competitor regardless of if Bluehole used Unreal Engine or not. Why do they feel they have some sort of exclusivity to the genre just because they lincensed the engine? If they were concerned about this, maybe they should have picked a different engine...which wouldn't have happened because their skill set seems to be centered around modding Unreal Engine games to make something new

[Nybz]

God Complex in full effect.

[KillBill]

Their concerns clarified they are not at issue with the idea of a Battle Royal game similar to theirs but the fact Epic is taking unfair advantage of proprietary ownership of the engine licensed out to them to create the game and then undercut with their own lack of proprietary code which can give Epic an undo advantage in creating their game versus what PUBG can offer on their own licensing of Epic's engine. And also pointed out that Epic has not licensed their game as H1Z1 and PUBG were required to do with Brendan Greene’s ideas for battle royale.

https://www.vg247.com/2017/...

[ecchiless]

Well is Epic engine so why they should not take advantage of what they build?

[rainslacker]

Epic makes that code available eventually in their engine.

but then we get to the issue that Epic created this proprietary code to make their own game. Note the "THEY CREATED THIS PROPRIETARY CODE" part.

Seems if they created this code, they are free to use it as they see fit. When Bluehole licensed the engine, Epic never agreed to make anything available immediately, or at all, beyond what was originally given with the engine and subsequent updates. All they agree to is fix problems that may arise with whatever you license.

But it is their code. Why does this dev feel that they are entitled to benefit off Epic's work in such a manner? Epic expended the resources to create this assumed proprietary code....which we don't even know if that exists....so they are entitled to reap the first benefit from it. They are even within their rights to be the only one's to reap benefit from it. However, Epic doesn't make new tech like that. They make this tech to include in their engine, to make their engine more valuable, because their engine is their real bread and butter.

As far as Epic having to license their game.

Are they required to? Did Epic make a mod of their game, or did they create their own implementation? Epic already had fortnite, so they added a mode. I'm sure Epic of all people have the expertise to implement their own solution without requiring modifications of another existing game.

The Brendan Greene thing comes down to if a genre can be owned. And that's generally believed to be a big fat "NO".

The term battle royale may be copyrighted in relation to the movie, but that's another issue that Bluehole doesn't have to concern itself with.

[KLICK_KLAK_KIDD]

Saying Epic copied that mode...is like saying every other online game copied Capture the flag or Domination :/

[Twinblade]

This is getting sad for Bluehole.

[Tankbusta40]

I don't care, tomorrow I can play fortnite...when I get an xbox one x I call play PUGB

[Tankbusta40]

"Exactly on point. The idea isn’t even PLAYERUNKNOWN’s, to begin with. In fact, he got the concept from Battle Royale, a novel published in 1999 by Japanese writer Koushun Takami and adapted into a movie released in 2000."

SO WRONG Battle Royale was not the first winner takes all sort of thing. Mean Guns(movie with Christopher Lambert) which came out in 1997 predated it(Highlander "there can only be one?"). I am sure there were other novels/movies that used this concept before hand. Battle Royale is NOT THE FIRST despite how many ignorant idiots wish to claim so.

[The_Jackel]

sounds like a pot meet kettle type of scenario

[TheEroica]

Who runs Bluehole? Phil Fish?

[privatepothed]

To bad king of the kill was out way before pubg