440°

Why Microsoft is making Project Scorpio

With today's reveal of the tech behind Project Scorpio, we now know what is inside the next Xbox. But why did Microsoft build it in the first place?

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XiNatsuDragnel2596d ago

Interesting. Confirmed more expensive than Pro so I'll say 600 dollars

BiggerBoss2596d ago

$600 is way too pricy imo. Who would pay $600 for an Xbox System after the short life of the xbox one?

darthv722596d ago

As to the question of "why scorpio?" it is because Ms wants to get devs back on their side. no doubt having a lesser product in comparison to the PS4 has hurt some relations. MS wants to make a "console" platform that can equate to a PC platform in the development process. Having DX12 built right in will make porting and cross development much simpler and should be more cost effective and less time consuming.

thus the return on investment will actually be games... MS lost out to all sorts of games due to not being the go-to platform to develop on. Scorpio is trying to change that perspective.

Bigpappy2595d ago (Edited 2595d ago )

Agreed darthv72: Scorpio is a proof of concept for DX12. It shows how you can take an average CPU and make it so efficient, that it can work with a medium powered GPU to produce 4K with ultra settings at high frame rates.

Developers and PC manufacturers will take notice. Helps AMD also.

S2Killinit2596d ago

No way it will be that much. Its just a upclocked hardware. I say it will be 399-450

RosweeSon2596d ago

You saw launch prices and prices of S models yeah so this Massively superior console gonna be £50/100 more... and the rest ;)

S2Killinit2596d ago (Edited 2596d ago )

Its massively superior after a year. Watch, its gonna be no more than $450

Cryptcuzz2596d ago

I am not going to get one, as I've always stucked with PS games, but to say Scorpio is just an up clocked hardware isn't true. The hardware sounds impressive, but even so, it won't be for me. I'm sure it'll be a great for Xbox fans though.

S2Killinit2596d ago

I'm not saying its not impressive. I'm saying the upchucked it in house, so they spent less on obtaining the hardware. Although, I am saying that its not a huge jump over the PS4Pro either. Its definitely stronger, but not stronger by a huge margin. Its a smaller bump than the one between standard PS4 and PS4Pro.

Prince_TFK2595d ago

Too high. An upclocked hardware should cost only $249.

/s

chrisoadamson2595d ago

its all custom built . please watch the tech tear down by digital foundary

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2595d ago
Mr-Dude2596d ago (Edited 2596d ago )

This is too similar to PS4 pro. I like it for the UHD Blu Ray and new dashboard, but it's going to be hard to justify. The 12gb is nice, but the dream of Zen and Rysen is over like a lot of people said. And for the real power to show you still need first party studio's or patches. And seeing how third party studio's are doing that on the PS Pro... Well, it's going to be interesting. Price is going to be a huge factor here. Sony won't have to do anything as long as the games keep coming, or just a price drop on the Slim and Pro.
So, here's my take, which is based on limited tech knowledge,

PS4 Pro:
GPU: PS4 Pro: 4.20 TFLOPs Polaris GPU
CPU: overclocked 2.1GHz Jaguar CPU

Scorpio:
an RX 480 would be: 5.8 TFLOPs, which, this is close to in scorpio. 40 customized compute units at 1172MHz.
CPU: 8 custom x86 cores clocked at 2.3GHz

I suppose, they're close in power. Obviously the edge goes to the Scorpio over PS4 PRo, but that's as it should be for hardware released after the PS4 Pro.

This is not quite the powerhouse I'd hoped for, but this is likely the best case scenario for the available hardware at release time.

Basically, I feel this is the same conversation We all had in regards to PS4 Pro when it released. Both are solid values, both are solid systems.

alb18992596d ago

It is 43% stronger than the Pro so don't hold your breath.

Yohshida2596d ago Show
YAO-BLING2596d ago Show
BiggerBoss2596d ago Show
Codedan2596d ago

They are stating facts without the customization of the architecture which is arguably more important than the hardware increase.

Christopher2596d ago

Where do you get 43 percent from? Everything I've seen is closer to 30 percent.

2596d ago
Christopher2596d ago

***40 customized compute units at 1172MHz vs 'only' 36 cores at around 900+MHz on the PS4 Pro, it's the difference in clockspeed AND number of cores.***

That's not how it works. You don't take a single item, measure the numbers directly like that, and make that the goal for power. There's a reason there's a specific tflop and core to GHz measurement standard.

Kokyu2596d ago

Yeah cause we saw 40% more from Ps4 when the tables where reversed right? No we didnt, what will likely happen is third party will look the same a cross Ps4P and Scorpio and first party will shin brighter like every gen.

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2596d ago Replies(2)
Aenea2596d ago

I think the biggest jump in performance is coming from DX12 in silicon! That can save a lot I think!

2596d ago
ABizzel12596d ago

@SirJoJo

It's there for a completely different reason, Scorpio having DX12 built into the silicon is there to make PC ports almost effortless, and help developers find and remove bottlenecks.

If Scorpio does start to receive more 3rd party console / timed exclusives, as I said a few weeks back they will be PC ports.

ShadowKnight2596d ago

Sounds great but what about developing first party games for the system. Are they going to take advantage of that or just third-party support

Mystogan2596d ago (Edited 2596d ago )

And there's a ton more hardware that's geared towards gaming specifically.

This is what a console should be, not just slightly tweaked off the shelf PC parts. The performance of a $1000 PC jammed into a $500 box.

Consoles have lost that advantage in recent years. You can build a PC that's as powerful as an Xbox One or PS4 with the same money. Same with PS4 Pro. This was not the case during PS2/Xbox Original and 360/ps3 era. Scorpio just brought that back. Every single piece of hardware is geared towards gaming. Something which is simply not possible on PC.

Xbox Scorpio can do 4K 60fps on Ultra in Forza. On PC only a GTX 1070(with some frame drops) and a GTX 1080 could do that. And these cards cost $400 and $600. Then you also need the CPU. Which will cost another $200-400. Then you need a motherboard/powersupply/etc. All that will add up to more than 800-1000 dollars. The Scorpio will cost $400-500, half that price. That can only be done when every single piece of hardware works towards one goal.

Aenea2596d ago (Edited 2596d ago )

@Mysto

None of MS and Sony their consoles have off the shelves PC components. They are all custom made APUs.

To me the Scorpio's APU is just a bit more custom even than the Pro's already was. Remember the Pro's GPU is not just a Polaris GPU, it's a mix of of the one in the PS4, Polaris addons, some Vega addons and some Sony specific things like for checkerboard rendering and PSVR. MS their GPU module is even more custom, biggest addition is DX12 inside the APU.

It's a wonderful looking piece of tech but it's not "bringing back custom hardware" like you claim it to be....

-------
@Shadow

For the love of.... Let go of that exclusives crap, plenty of non-exclusive games that can make use of this hardware, why be so annoying?

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2596d ago
Kribwalker2596d ago

"Microsoft's Scorpio engine enjoys spec domination over PS4 Pro in all areas - "
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

The downplay is real, the console is a beast, by a lot.

"I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings - cranking up the quality presets to obscene levels was one of the first things developer Turn 10 did when confronted with the sheer amount of headroom it had left after a straight Xbox One port. Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080. Frames were dropped on GTX 1060 (and a lot of them when wet weather conditions kicked in), while GTX 1070 held firm with only the most intense wet weather conditions causing performance dips. Only GTX 1080 held completely solid in all test cases"

It's not even close

Liqu1d2596d ago Show
ABizzel12596d ago

@Kirb

The difference is similar between the original Xbox vs the PS4, except this time it's in MS favor, which considering the console is releasing a year later it's to be expected. There's no downplay here by anyone, and if someone tries it's pure fanboyism, or they simply wanted more power with the year of additional time.

The hardware and the customizations are on point with Scorpio. This is basically a new console from MS, to fix all the issues the original XBO had. PS4 Pro is practically a dual GPU PS4. Same concept for both consoles, completely different methods of getting there.

The GPU balance goes

PS4 Pro
RX 470 (PS4 Pro first party games)
RX 480
XBO Scorpio / GTX 1060
1070 (The difference here is XBO will have better optimization with first party games)

Scorpio is more powerful, no need for discussion there and we've known this since last year's E3.

synistatha12596d ago

I still don't see any games that would make me want one so what's the point again

Kribwalker2596d ago

@synthasia

Start with the best version of every multiplatform and then wait for E3 for the rest to come to light

Ashlen2596d ago

@Kribwalker

So if PS4 has had the best multiplats for the pas 3 1/2 years why do you own an Xbox?

Scorpio is not going to change things.

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XbladeTeddy2596d ago

"I suppose, they're close in power."

Hardly. Scorpio eats PS4 Pro alive. But with that comes a higher price point which is a negative.

2596d ago
ABizzel12596d ago

@Mr.Dude

It's going to be more powerful than the PS4 Pro, and definitely have more Native 4K first party games considering all the customizations to the hardware. It's unlikely most 3rd party devs will push those customizations nearly as much outside of porting higher PC versions down to Scorpio. But for first party games we could likely see better texture work, anti aliasing, and effects also with that Native 4k boost.

The power difference is pretty much the same as the PS4 vs the original Xbox, which is expected a year later.

The big question is how much is it going to cost, and that's a war Sony can win on all sides. They can easily drop the price of the base PS4 down to $199, and PS4 Pro down to $349 and continue to sell at a profit. Meanwhile that UHD Blu Ray in the XBOs will always be a reason the the XBOs will barely make a profit at $199, and Scorpio for all the tech customizations, high-end (for console) cooling solution, and more expensive hardware means it's launching at $500 or else it's taking a loss on each console sold.

At this point it's a price:performance when it comes to hardware, and the PS4 brand is still winning that, although Xbox Scorpio has won the overall performance crown for the next few years. And this is all just specifically talking about hardware, games are a completely different story.

343_Guilty_Spark2596d ago

The PS4 was only half a TF more powerful than the Xbox One.

The Scorpio is essentially a full PS4 (1.8 TF) more powerful than the PS4 Pro.

It's not the same.

Aenea2596d ago

@343

Not that again. In order to render 4 times the pixels you need to have 4 times the power.

For 4k 1.8Tf will show about the same difference as .45Tf for 1080p....

The 1.8Tf for 1080p tho is another story......

343_Guilty_Spark2596d ago

They aren't close in power. The Xbox One and PS4 were closer in power than the XBOX Scorpio and the PS4 Pro.

The big deal for me outside of the massive improvements in compute power, speed and optimizations is the extra 4 go RAM. That means 4K textures, which the PS4P does not utilize (Horizon still looks amazing nonetheless).

Aenea2596d ago

Since with bigger resolutions the gap needs to be bigger to show the same results it's wise to use a percentage to indicate the difference so we can compare it to what we are used to with HDTV's and these consoles...

Percentage wise the power difference is just as much between X1 and PS4 as Scorpio and Pro...

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fiveby92596d ago

Well clearly as far as hardware goes it will be a strong console. MS needs to cultivate a more interesting diverse set of titles. Will it dominate in sales? I doubt it will dominate but sell far better than X1, I suspect it will. But likely at some point Sony will announce a new console being developed which will leap frog. And so the game will go. So what will the difference maker be? Games and where one's friends play.

Yohshida2596d ago

Forza Motorsport 7 - Racer
Sea of Thieves - MMORPG
State of Decay 2 - Survival
Crackdown 3 - Open World Action
Halo Wars 2 - RTS
Path of Exile - Dungeon Crawler

Tell me, how much more diverse could it get??

Liqu1d2596d ago

You do realise that PS4 has games in all those genres and more?

BiggerBoss2596d ago

Bro, look at that list and then look at the offerings for the Ps4 this year. That doesn't bother you at all?

fiveby92596d ago

I didn't say they weren't working on it. Just more diversity is better IMO. And two of those games are actually released yet. Look I own both consoles but I do find that currently PS has a better diversity of games. Just think in order for MS to be more successful then along with improved hardware they need to have some parity with PS in terms of diversity. At current, I spend and do way more gaming on my PS than my X1.

Yohshida2596d ago

"PS has a better diversity of games"

Dude what? Tell me HOW CAN IT GET ANYTHING MORE DIVERSE??? What games does Sony have that are more diverse???

@Liqu1d
Sure they do, I was just showing him about the diversity

@BiggerBoss
One Console offers Games I play alone, the other offers me a full on online experience. Depends on what you prefer.

RosweeSon2596d ago

Halo wars 2 is already out, Forza 7 what a 4-5th Forza in as many years. Crackdown 3 looks promising but yeah great games for Xbox one... Scorpio exclusives built from ground up that are gonna use the extra power... 0

GoodnessGreatness2595d ago

That's it? And that list looks terrible. Almost no interesting games at all.

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343_Guilty_Spark2596d ago

Scorpio 2 is likely already in the planning stages.

fiveby92596d ago

I think there is a broader plan of shortened console cycles coming into play. We are possibly entering a time of iterative console releases like in mobile phone market. Spec refresh every couple years. Ultimately both consoles will end up with similar performance specs at any given time. Other differentiators will come to play, like cloud services, first party exclusives, and execution on softtware / features.

RosweeSon2596d ago

At the end of the day the average gamer doesn't even know what a teraflop is nor do they care I myself... sure I'll read it but it means nothing to me. It's all about the games. When Microsoft has a good 4/5 new ones that I didn't nail on my S I'll consider a Scorpio 2018/19 at this rate tho. They could have 20 teraflops if they ain't got any games exclusives especially waste of time and my money.

Yohshida2595d ago

Yep, all they hear is "MOST POWERFULL CONSOLE". Games didn't matter at the start of the gen. PS4 sold like hot cakes without anything worthwhile.

RosweeSon2595d ago

VideoGameLab I agree there wasn't anything system selling worthy on launch but knowing what was coming and due was enough for me the great price and fact Sony were going for it hard won me round... had 360 for 9 years fancied a change and they were the ones from day1 who were going for it. I hadn't even seen console before I decided PS4 was a day1.
Games always matter tho. Specially for a games console ;)

ShadowKnight2596d ago (Edited 2596d ago )

He didn't see anything else running on the Scorpio except Forza? I wanna see if Witcher 3 can run in 4K 60fps

Aenea2596d ago

It can't.

If CDPR is willing to make a patch for Scorpio they could probably get it to run at 2160p@30fps.

It's running on the X1 at 900p and has frame drops at 30fps. If you see my calculation below a game that is 900p@30fps can be lifted to 2160p@30fps by the hardware (if it's patched) but it would still struggle then with frame drops. To get a game to 60fps from 30fps the GPU has to do double the work which won't be possible together with such a massive resolution increase.

They could, of course, offer an option for 1800p sparse rendering (and then upscaling to 2160p after that), then it can probably do 60fps, still look wonderful and get rid of the frame drops.

basically you have to think of it like this:
900p@xxfps on X1 -> 2160p@xxfps on Scorpio likely
1080p@xxfps on X1 -> 2160p@xxfps on Scorpio more than likely

But doubling the framerate AND bumping the resolution like that, not likely....

Yohshida2596d ago

They are using PC ULTRA Settings and Assets plus 4K/60FPS and use 66% of the system:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

Why wouldn't a 1080p Game run on native 4k/60? Pro plays games with the same setting and textures too, just in a higher resolution.

Aenea2596d ago

@Videogamelab

Because lifting a game from 30fps to 60fps means the GPU has to do twice the work, doing BOTH resolution AND framerate is not gonna work.

Again, a 1080p@60fps can do 2160p@60fps on Scorpio, but getting a 1080p@30fps game to 2160p@60fps is not gonna happen, not even with this hardware and all it's tricks!

The Witcher 3 runs at 900p and can't even hit a stable 30fps....

343_Guilty_Spark2596d ago

You're performance calculations do not scale linearly. Lots of optimizations you are not privy too.

Aenea2596d ago

@343

But neither are you and videogamelab privy to those!

DigitalFoundry said that 900p games can with a lot of work made to become native 4k on Scorpio, but still with the same exact framerate cap!

Stop believing in magic, Scorpio can not lift a 900p@30fps game to 2160p@60fps...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2596d ago
Aenea2596d ago

The most impressive thing and the thing that is going to make sure many a game can indeed perform rather well and reach 4k is the DirectX 12 implementation in silicon!

The CPU is just a beefed up Jaguar like in the Pro, the GPU is an AMD GPU with Polaris features and additional MS specific additions just like the GPU in the Pro is...

I do think MS has a slight edge here that they did more in software/libraries in an abstract way, especially with DirectX where Sony of course also has libraries devs can use but devs could also go real low level on the PS4 which can cause compatibility issues on different hardware...

Still, the Forza demo was rather nice, but the game was already running 1080p@60fps on stock X1, everyone already assumed they would be able to get games that do that already to become 4k@60fps (4 x 1.3Tf = 5.2Tf). What is impressive is that they apparently did it using only 4.2Tf (70% of 6Tf, the GPU wasn't utilised fully, fluctuated between 55% and 70%).

Let's see, to get a 900p game to 1080p they need 1.44 times the power. They managed to go from 1080p to 2160p using 3.25 times the power. To get a 900p game to 2160p it needs 1.44 x 3.25 times the power. Multiply that by 1.3Tf and the machine should be able to do 6.084Tf. Hmm, whaddayaknow, that IS possible.

Still the games that fluctuate with dynamic resolutions lower than 900p won't be able to.

Also, and this is very important to think about: games running at 30fps won't go to 60fps all that easily. So don't expect a 900p@30fps game to go to 2160p@60fps since that will be impossible. And yes, for double the framerate you do need a faster GPU, apparently some here believe that is not the case, but it really is...

LexHazard792596d ago

So putting aside bias and games. Did you like what you heard about the Scorpio?

Aenea2596d ago

Yes I did!

I love to know the price, but am sure we will know in 2 months at MS their E3 press conference!

Anyhoo, the hardware looks good! Adding 4 more CU's on there and upping the frequency is rather nice! The whole DX12 on silicon is impressive and believe there's where the most power increase is coming from and I feel that is the whole reason why Forza only used 55-70% of the GPU. This could be huge!

And yeah, am sure it will have way more native 4k games this way than I actually expected. Still, not all of them will, the games below 900p certainly won't, but heck, those can surely use 2160p sparse/checkerboard rendered with ease!

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60°

XCOM's Jake Solomon Q&A - Building a Narrative-Driven Life Sim Game at Midsummer Studios

XCOM and Marvel's Midnight Suns director Jake Solomon has founded a new studio to make a life sim game. Here's a new interview with him.

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40°

The Big Inworld AI Q&A - 'Everyone in Gaming Sees the Potential of Generative AI'

Wccftech interviewed Nathan Yu from Inworld AI to discuss the dynamic NPC tech's applications to games as well as potential issues like costs.

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160°

Xbox President Sarah Bond's Bloomberg Interview Is Corporate Fakery At Its Best

Saad from eXputer: "After Arkane Austin & Tango were shutdown, Xbox President Sarah Bond spoke with Bloomberg in what I believe to be utter corporate fakery."

gold_drake1d 14h ago

im not really surprised by that, shes always been more a "let me talk about something else than what u want to know" kinda gal

Cacabunga1d 7h ago

If what they are doing is that good, what’s the point of hiding the true story?

anast1d 11h ago

She's a caricature of the shareholders.

PRIMORDUS1d 9h ago

"Shareholders" I call them cancer, they are already rich to begin with but need more and more. It's like a disease, with no cure.

__y2jb17h ago

If you have a pension then you are likely to be a shareholder in these big tech companies yourself. To demonize them as 'heartless rich people' shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

anast16h ago(Edited 16h ago)

@Y2

Of course, it isn't about that. You are attempting to set up a self-righteous strawman to stir up some kind of ignorant mob mentality.

And by the way, most everyone is a touch heartless or we wouldn't be able to consume the products we do knowing very well how they are made. People have to be this way because of self-preservation and convenience.

__y2jb13h ago

@anast please explain to me how what i said is self righteous or a strawman. I simply pointed out that categorizing all shareholders as cancer is ridiculous.

Leeroyw1d 7h ago

I own shares in game companies. I'm not anything near a major share holder. I just want them to make good games and be successful because of that. I think it's the senior management that's the problem. They are the ones that should be making it clear to the shareholders what creates growth and ensures a future of their business. Not this weasle words garbage that she did on the interview. It was horrific. I don't know a shareholder that would be happy with any of them for this.

Profchaos1d 6h ago (Edited 1d 6h ago )

Same and I'm not rich by any stretch like most people's I'm just trying to keep my head above water these days most company's shareholders are made up of everyday people it's amazing how companies think we want something but the reality is we don't.

Disney are probably the worse at the moment it's shareholders voted on ending a lot of the crap and outing the current execs the execs turned around and said no we disagree with the shareholder vote

PRIMORDUS1d 1h ago

I meant at the rich fucks who have millions in the bank already. They are making so much per year, that if they don't make what they are expecting they go into a panic, when in reality it will not even hurt them at all. Those are greedy assholes.

anast16h ago

"you have a pension then you are likely to be a shareholder"

Pensioners don't make any decisions about anything. Obviously that is not what this is about.

CrimsonWing691d 11h ago

Yea, it was and it’s insulting that they think we’re dumb enough to fall for this. Look, the truth was you took a gamble on these studios and while they released some games to critical praise and great reception they just aren’t bringing in a ROI. Be transparent, you’re not a politician.

Just tell everyone you spend money on projects big and small and when money isn’t being made you go over the potential of revenue a studio can bring in vs those that can’t and make the hard decision to chop them.

She says this whole thing about “success” doesn’t fit one meaning for each studio. Well yea, a small budget production isn’t going to expect to sell the same as a large budget production.

One thing I wish they did though was let Tango be an independent studio.

TheGamingHounds1d 11h ago

disheartening to see no regard for the human cost of business anymore
the bad decisions and judgements of these CEOs severely impact the frontliners
these fake responses are just salt on wounds

RoadRacer1d 11h ago

imagine havin the audacity to say "we need more games like hifi rush" right after closing the studio that made it lol
followin up with this show of "deflecting every question" was in poor taste

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