Nintendo Switch Being Less Powerful Than PS4 And Xbox One Doesn’t Matter – Little Nightmares Dev

At this point, we are still unclear on just how powerful the Nintendo Switch really will be - recent rumors indicate it will be less powerful than the PS4, and about as powerful as the Xbox One - but they're just that, rumors, and rumors about this system is all over the place.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

I like what I've seen of it thus far, and Bethesda's confirmed statement about not deving for it if it wasn't at least as powerful as the XB1, on top of FROM Software having Dark Souls 3 running, in their own words, at a level they are happy with, give me some measure of confidence that the system isn't terribly underpowered like the Wii U was.

By the way, for those who are unaware; Bethesda's statement, essentially, was that they would consider development for the NX if it were at least as powerful as the XB1.
http://wccftech.com/bethesd...

And since they're on the dev list for Switch now, obviously their consideration transformed into a yes, which HAS to mean it met that minimum requirement of matching the XB1, at the very least.

[gameseveryday]

I think lower specs may be a worry for some devs since downscaling a game from the PS4/X1 version isn't as straight forward as it seems. But Nintendo systems are easy to develop for so we will see if its specs have any impact on third party support.

[MeteorPanda]

"but nintendo systems are east to develop for" - l'm sorry what gave you this idea? from what l've read nintendo is a monster to work with and for as an indie

[Jman2]

@rashid @panda Nintendo console are not as difficult to develop for as any other platforms, there just inconvenient. Making assets byte order independent is not hard but it's additional work to account tfor switching from. X86 (PC, Xbox one, ps4) to power/arm(mobile / Nintendo).

Nintendo generally uses opengl although modified which isn't too difficult, standard opengl is pretty nasty to work with due to depreciations all over the API. Maybe it will use vulkan which would be benifitsa although alot will not like that due to having to add an additional API liabry too there engine.

In terms of scaling the quality that's not too difficult, we generally just turn off certain features that cause slow downs like anti aliasing at high resoloutions, render textures, dynamic shadows etc.

In summary Nintendo isn't difficult to develop for it's jsut a bit more effort which most don't see worth doing if it doesn't sell enough consoles .

[_-EDMIX-_]

Nintendo systems are easy to develop for? Are you seriously trolling? This company is absolutely notorious for having a difficult architecture.

[deafdani]

@MeteorPanda: Nintendo has had an amazing relationship with Indies for more than 5 years now. Long gone are the nightmare days of Wiiware, were Nintendo's restrictions for Indies made it almost impossible to make a game for Wiiware that wasn't crap.

Nintendo did a complete 180° on that stance with the 3DS and especially the Wii U, and have since been extremely welcoming to Indies and very easy to work with. You only need to look at the Indie support on 3DS and Wii U to realise this.

[XanderZane]

Well, it's not as powerful as a PS4 or XB1. Probably somewhere between and XBox 360 and and XB1 maybe. I'm thinking most games will be 720P - 900P, but we'll have to wait and see. This will be more of a handheld system, then a game console. Nintendo knows their handheld systems sell like crazy, so it was smart to make this a handheld first and a game console second. The games will be what sells this system in the end.

[Neonridr]

Depends on what engine they are using. Since we know that the Switch can handle the UE4 Engine and that thing is completely scalable, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that a dev has to go to a lower AA or down to 900p instead of 1080p or whatever to help smooth out the game.

We will know more next month I guess.

[Neonridr]

lol at all these people. Like the PS3 and it's Cell processor was easy to develop for. Ask Bethesda XD

[rdgneoz3]

@Neonridr And Sony learned from the Cell processor with it's next system, and made it more PC like and easier to develop for (with x86).

[porter470]

I hear blighttown is a level they are happy with

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

Skyrim Remastered is a better indication.
Again; anything XB1 can handle.

[DivoJones]

Mostly replying to the comment below. Keep in mind that Skyrim Remastered is really a game developed for last-gen 360/PS3 with all the DLC, so it's not a solid indicator of it's power compared to XB1. If it could run something like Dead Rising 3 or 4, Forza Horizon 3.. then we're talking about a real XB1 game.
Speaking of which, I was playing Skyrim Remastered on XB1 and it locked up on me. They really preserved the integrity of the original. :)

[Goldby]

Xb1 can handle Darksouls, doesn't mean that the 360/ps3 versions arent still suffering because of it. the game was made for ps3 and 360 not xbox one. and on the console it was made for it had trouble playing properly. take that into account when taking froms statements to heart.

Even bloodborne has frame rate issues on PS4

[Emme]

Well, as "terribly underpowered" as it was, it played Arkham City, Deus Ex, Mass Effect just fine for me. It would have been technically no problem to port Dark Souls, Far Cry, Bioshock Infinite or Metro to the system.

[yomfweeee]

None of those games you mentioned are even current gen games.

[gamer7804]

Those are all old games...

[deafdani]

Please show me where Bethesda said the Switch was as powerful as a Xbox One. All I remember was them saying something along the lines of only developing for consoles that don't force them to compromise on their vision for their games or something like that.

The Dark Souls rumor (which I believe is true) is more encouraging, but even that comes with its caveats and doesn't necessarily confirm anything one way or another.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

Their statement, essentially, was that they would consider development for the NX if it were at least as powerful as the XB1.
http://wccftech.com/bethesd...

That article, and their statement, came out before the NX was revealed as the Switch, and since then they've been confirmed as devs for the system.
Connecting the dots isn't hard, from there; their consideration came to fruition and they signed up for the system, which can only mean it lived up to their technical requirements.
This is also a sign that third parties truly are not leaving the base systems of this gen behind, which means the Switch is in a position to get any game the XB1 can, at the very least.

I'm thinking of submitting that as an article, since so few seem to be aware of Bethesda's stance on the Switch pre-reveal.

@Yomf
It's not an illogical conclusion when weak tech was the reason they skipped the last two or three Nintendo consoles yet are suddenly on board with the Switch, especially since they're using the PS4 and XB1 as the base line for the kind of tech they want to put their games on.

[yomfweeee]

@wonderfulmonkey, you're making an illogical conclusion

They were asked if they would support it if it was as powerful as the X1. They responded they would consider it. Yes, they have since confirmed they are supporting it.

That does not mean the Switch is as powerful. They never said it HAD to be at least as powerful.

[badz149]

delusionals Nintendo fanboys everywhere. this is not handhelds that we're talking about. sure the DS and 3DS were less powerful than the PSP and Vita but are more successful. but handheld is the market Nintendo already has a strong grip on. power matters in the console market. if you don't trust me, look at Wii and Wii U. the Wii sprinted out of the gate with its motion control craze but that eventually faded away and it was left alone by AAA budget games in the mountain of shovelware, cash grabs and crappy ports.

well it did sold 100m units and considered as a success and winner of last gen but look at the Wii U. just barely more powerful than both the PS3 and 360 and tried to ride the wave of Wii "success" and it ultimately FLOPPED! barely selling 15mil after a 100mil haul the gen before is...well...crappy!

power matters. devs have scaled down their games enough for the PS4 and even further for the weaker xbone thus forcing their hands to release the mid-gen upgrades but somehow some of you are still trying to convince yourselves that power doesn't matter? if rumors are to be believed, the Switch is not going to be more powerful than the original PS4. with the Pro already out and Scorpio next, Switch will be massacred with only that kind of power. you can have unique features all to yourselves but 3rd parties aren't gonna prioritize your console if you're not in contention for market leader. I think the Wii U is proof enough for this.

SMH

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

You must not have heard that devs aren't abandoning the PS4 and XB1 for their mid-gen upgrades.
If you had, you wouldn't be saying the Switch will get massacred.
But then again, you're the type of troll that loves using Nintendo fanboys as your lead-in line to try and make a statement. smh.

[badz149]

@monkeyman

"devs aren't abandoning the PS4 and XB1 for their mid-gen upgrades"

of course I knew this and devs would be stupid to do so because Sony said so and the PS4 is already at over 50mil units sold! who in their right mind is gonna be stupid enough to ignore a 50mil fanbase that is only 3 years old this gen? and also Mark Cerny has said that Pro enhancement would need only a small fraction of their total dev time to implement because of how similar it is to the original PS4. they don't have to do Pro mode at all, mind you, but it's a way Sony is assuring new Pro owners that they are indeed going to get a performance, or at the very least, resolution boost in all upcoming games compared to original or Slim PS4.

I'm talking strictly PS4 because I don't know what is MS planning with Scorpio but mid gen enhancement or not, can't argue that the PS4 is already 50mil strong. some devs, albeit smaller ones, are already willing to ditch the Xbone that is at over 20mil in favor of the PS4, The Switch will need something extra to enthuse 3rd parties to take advantage of its unique features and I think that will be a huge task in itself especially with the power disadvantage.

Nintendo's problem not just lies in their hardware prowess, but it extends to their fanbase as well. with the Wii and Wii U, Nintendo somehow has unwillingly cement their position as a companion console rather than the main and their fanbase is expecting nothing else but another Mario, Zelda, pokemon and maybe a couple other 1st party IPs but rarely buy any other. Wii and Wii U exclusives that aren't Nintendo's weren't selling. 3rd parties are looking at this trend and there is a reason for their abandoning of both consoles. try to proof me wrong on this. I think this is their biggest problem at hand but I'd say good luck to changing this perception. it was their own undoing.

selling your new console that is weaker than your rivals old consoles is one heck of a challenge and I just can't see it succeeding at all YET but I'd say the market would be a little bit lonely without them too.

[deafdani]

Pretty nice find, Monkey. I didn't know about that.

It makes me a bit more hopeful about the system's capabilities regarding third party software. Let's hope we get an awesome unveiling of third party support come January.

[starrman1985]

The problem will arise when we have both the PS4 Pro and Scorpio out, we will likely start to see PS4/Xbox One games struggle and if the Switch is not even quite up to par with those it's only going to struggle more.

Developers will then have to design games to cover a pretty wide performance gap and over time I feel they will probably neglect the Switch. But hopefully they have pulled some magic and if it matches the performance of the Xbox One at least then it shouldn't be an issue.

[Goldby]

@Wonderful. Don't take from softwares statement as 100% good thing. They were also happy releasing Dark Souls with Blighttown being the way it is. just becuase it runs doesn't mean it will run smoothly. its its running smoothly at the 720p for handheld that will be great but im a little worried about how fast those batteries will last on the go playing DS games, let alone games that will be made in the years to come

[Kokyu]

Nintendo had a list of Devs before anyone confirmed. Bethesda had confirmed or begun Switch support and were listed and had Skyrim shown playing on the Switch so Nintendo listing them without them actually confiming support means nothing.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

All consoles have dev lists before launch; if they meant nothing then the lists for the PS4 and XB1 would have been just as unreliable as you're trying to make the Switch's list out to be.

[Derceto]

Yes, it does. It matters. Anything that is weaker than the competition, matters. Now go back to your little bubble.

[quent]

You're ps4 pro is holding back optimization on my Titan-X, now go back in you're bubble

[jaycptza]

How do you know he has a Pro? Also why did you come here to mention a Titan X seems pretty silly

[chadwarden]

My Titan-XP is being held back by your old Titan-X. Now go back to your bubble

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Your grammar is holding back your country. Now go back to school

[bluefox755]

The only thing holding back your Titan-X optimization is the fact that the majority of gamers don't want to spend an arm and a leg on gaming. If all consoles disappeared tomorrow, do you think that people who were previously only willing to spend $300 on a console would suddenly go out and buy $1500 video cards? C'mon man, surely you're smarter than that!

[DashArrivals]

You know you look like an idiot when you bring up PC Powah in articles for consoles and handhelds

[wolokowoh]

Why did the console player cross the road?

So the other side of the street would load.

That one kills my master race parties.

[Liqu1d]

*Your

[Kokyu]

No that would be the 70% of steam users playing on mid settings and PC programmers opting to optimize more for the average instead of your card.

[mcstorm]

Derceto I have to disagree. It's not about power and I still don't get where fans come from with power. Yes power can be a plus for some games but it's not the end of it. It all comes to games and the developers.

Look at the wiiu as an example and it had some of the best looking games on it. Nothing in its gore has come close to Mario 3d world in looks or game play. Mario Kart again. Nothing comes close.

Yes UC4 and gow 4 look amazing but there is not really anything on the wiiu that falls under the same gore.

For me it's all about how the game makes you feel. Just like I have no interest in VR but love the idea of the switch.

For me if the switch had the games I want I will buy the console I don't care how much power it has or what ram it is in. If I enjoy the games on it I'll buy it. I don't like cod or Minecraft but that's why we all have a choice in gaming. If you don't like the switch don't get it. If you do get it just like anything in life.

[Eonjay]

I respectfully disagree. I really don't think specs trump content. PS2 is a perfect example. And same thing goes for PS1.

[classic19]

I say it do matter, the fact that the pro is out and then the Scorpio.. Yeah I'd say 3rd party support will be a problem.. They have to sell at the ps4 pace when it releases to get that third-party support.. Are els the big games will stay away.. Hell they still might stay away.. opinion to the rumors

[kraenk12]

You know why I think it won't matter much?! I believe the local multiplayer option it has will make third party developers develop dedicated games instead of simple ports. That's exactly what this developer states btw....damn, I clicked a Gamingbolt article!

[CaptainObvious878]

3rd Parties are absolutely NOT going to be making dedicated games for the switch, not unless Nin funds it.

Heck, if the sales are low they might not even get ports.

[kraenk12]

But the sales won't be low. It's obvious, you should know..;)

So you're telling me third parties didn't make games for 3DS as well?!

[rdgneoz3]

"But the sales won't be low. It's obvious, you should know..;) "

Cough WiiU Cough...

Comparing consoles and hand helds is like apples and oranges. PS4/Pro are selling like hot cakes, while Vita is dead and in the back seat. WiiU is selling like crap and everyone is abandoning ship (no more new Zelda cough), while 3DS sells pretty damn well.

[kraenk12]

@rdgneoz

The huge difference is price point and features...both points where the Switch excels compared to Vita and WiiU.

[conanlifts]

I don't think that will be an issue straight away. But give it 2-3 years and i can see scorpio and pro exclusive games being released. At this point it will be an issue.
Of course if switch sells enough units then third party companies will make games any way. But will they be the same games that scorpio and pro get.

[classic19]

You make some good points.. But I do feel like 3rd party support will overwhelmingly depend on sells.. Here hoping the console is 1.2 teraflops if that's the case I think it might have some legs. But your right some third-party games might be built ground up for that system.. I just don't see the big name games making the plung to it.. More accurately big-time RPGs.. Rockstar and such. So again, y'all got some good points. We shell know what tendo is hiding next month. opinion towards the rumors

[kraenk12]

I don't understand why everyone wants the same games on this as on the other systems?! We need a different experience and different games. We don't need another PlayStation. And Ninty knows that.

[conanlifts]

@kraenk i partly agree and think that's the appeal of nintendo consoles. The issue is that often without third party support game releases become sparse. This was the issue on the wii u. It had some great games, but large gaps between releases. Third party support would prevent this. In addition some people only buy one console and they want to play the fallout, Witcher battlefield etc which pretty much never make nintendo consoles due to lack of power.

[UltraNova]

Krank,

90+% of console gamers cant afford a second console. Many others simply dont a lot of time for gaming let alone try playing the best of each system.

So with that said, ask yourself - if you had to buy just one console, would you get Nintendo's?

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

It's not a problem because third parties are not abandoning the base forms of the PS4 and XB1.
That means anything they get, the Switch can get, so long as they match one of the two in power.
And according to Bethesda's presence on the dev list for the Switch, it is AT LEAST on par with XB1.

[Nathan_Hale53]

The Pro and Scorpio are held back by their base consoles. If the Switch is as powerful, or a little more than a One, then I don't believe it will be an issue.

[ClayRules2012]

I believe it does matter. Well, to an extent.

Nintendo really dropped the ball with the Wii U "in my opinion" I feel like they thought they could piggyback off of the success of the original Wii. However, I genuinely hope everyone who played their Wii U's really enjoyed it, and had tons of fun playing it with family & friends.

Having said that, Nintendo really needs to deliver on the power side of things this time around, to compete with PS4 & Xbox One, and have multiple platform games come to their console as well "in my opinion"
While it's great they have Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, and whatever other "Exclusive" games they have under the Nintendo brand, they still need support from 3rd party developers, to go even further. and allow their games library to grow. They'll really need to bring a Powerful console that's at least on Par with PS4 & Xbox One "in my opinion"

You can only go so far with Mario, Zelda- Donkey Kong ect... Spice things up a bit. We shall see what happens!

[kraenk12]

The thing will sell on price alone. They put a totally different focus on this...on the go multiplayer! Nothing the other consoles are able to do.

With a new Zelda and new 3D Mario (with MP option as it seems) and for the rumoured 250 it's just slightly more expensive than the 3DS and you know how this sold.

[ClayRules2012]

Yeah, with the rumoured 250$ price tag, the Switch will do exceptionally well in sales in the beginning. Possibly for a good while. But their needs to be a really good deal of support from 3rd party developers this time around if Nintendo really believes they can compete with PS4 & Xbox One.

The MP options are certainly cool.

[_-EDMIX-_]

? So what you're telling me is no handheld has ever released with multiplayer?

Ummmm ok...

[kraenk12]

Two player MP?! On one handheld?! With network capabilities?!

[jmc8888]

Price is not that good. We've heard anywhere between $229-339, which includes the potential for the three SKU's that has been rumored.

The problem is the cheap ones, are the ones that appeal to the smallest segment, the handheld users.

If you want to buy Switch as a console, you have to get the most expensive option, and at that point, it's a horrible price.

Say I wanted to buy one, the only one that would appeal to me is the ones with an actual controller packed in. That version is rumored to be $339.

Nintendo NES gamepads felt like crap holding when I was 10. Now even smaller Joy-Con ones as an adult? Yeah right.

$339 is a massively high priced for a console launching in 2017, with power from last decade.

$339 is also comparatively a horrible price compared to Sony and MS.

When PS4 and XB1S can say they have a library, 3rd party support, and more power and cost in comparison $250-299, that's a problem. That's a MASSIVE problem.

Meanwhile that $339 version is only $60 less then a PS4 Pro. That's a massive problem.

Additionally both Sony and MS will be in a better position to cut prices at any time, since these are older devices, not to mention both Sony and MS are well known for value bundles and plenty of discounts.

Nintendo? King of full price. With very limited sales/discounts.

That's a problem.

So no, it's not cheap. At best, if you get the cheapest option, it's basically on par with a competitor, as long as they don't cut the price further.

[Kreisen]

The only difference between WiiU and this is this is actually a portable system.

[kraenk12]

This has motion sensing controllers for local multiplayer, can locally link systems for even bigger MP matches, is a combined portable and stationary system, is twice as powerful, has twice the RAM and doesn't even cost more.

[marioJP87]

As it didn't matter with the Wii U being released underpowered against what competition had for years before it?

[Bismarn]

Sure, it hasn't mattered the last 5 generations. Nintendo always came out on top, oh wait...

[kraenk12]

Last generation they did...just saying.

[OoglyBoogly]

In sales maybe but that is it. They had less games, less third party, etc.

[jmc8888]

What you're not saying is motion controller fad with a massive price difference.

Wii $249, PS3 up to $599

Switch $229-339, PS4/XB1S $249-299

Not to mention alot of people who bought or watched Wii U crash and burn and being wary of buying into another device.

In the end, most people simply won't see 'gaming on the go' for what it gives up... as a positive.

Price wise, they have no advantage compared to Wii versus PS3 and even 360.

[hiawa23]

Given what we saw with the Wii and Wiiu powerwise, I did not expect the Switch which is a portable that docks, not a traditional console like the X1 PS4, to be more powerful. It is a portable people, that just needs to play Nintendo games, and I doubt you need 4 or 6 TFLOps for those. I am not into portable gaming and Nintendo lost me with the Wii so I am not buying a Switch, but I am surprised why many are so surprised by the outrage many have with the info that has leaked for the Switch so far. I am wondering how this will affect third party support cause if we remember correctly, the Wii and Wiiu had support right out of the gate which quickly faded.

[peewee11016]

Does not matter??? They said the same thing about the wii u... Look what happen there. IDC if it weak or not.. This is a Day one for me..... If the price are true i cant WAIT!!!

[conanlifts]

The wii u flopped, was that your point?

@ 10th rider. Thanks for the response.

[The 10th Rider]

I think that is kind of peewee's point. They had said that the Wii U being less powerful didn't matter, but "look what happened there" . . . It did matter, and the Wii U had massive software gaps due to lack of third party support. However, he's going to buy a Switch either way.

[hiawa23]

but the Wiiu flopped

[peewee11016]

You guysbdont get what i am saying wii u did flop but I will still support them no matter what you tards

[conanlifts]

I simply asked a question and was not trying to insult. But if you want to respond by being insulting then maybe you should learn to structure a sentence.

[OoglyBoogly]

Calling other people "tards" while not spelling properly and making no sense makes you look retarded.

Your argument stinks.

[Wotbot]

This is the first time I'm really no bothered about the power aspect of a console, it has so much more going for it. If I want want power, then I will just keeping waiting for the next more powerful console to arrive, in this case the Scorpio, but out of all the consoles out and coming out, the Switch is the most exciting one and it's got nothing to do with power.

[Kreisen]

Like what? What does it have going for it? That its portable? There are much better options out there for gaming on the go, options that arent just cheaper but have more games to offer.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

None of the other handhelds that have been made thus far offer entire libraries' worth of home console games on the go with no wifi needed, much less Breath of the Wild level stuff.
With the possible exception of the Shield, which most don't and won't care about by comparision.
The Switch does, on top of Nintendo's big hits.

[Wotbot]

If you can't see it then there's no pointing it out to you. Live happily in your short sightedness.

[kraenk12]

You do realise it will be compatible with the WiiU, right?!

[porter470]

Says the dev that made a new irritation of little big planet for the Vita. 3rd party devs aren't going to make new games of existing games just for the switch, thats what killed the WiiU.

[King_Lothric]

It does matter when they are selling it like a "console". If they just say... Hey this is our new handheld device that also plays on TV... Then I would understand but releasing the switch being underpowered to consoles released 3 years ago? Nope. I will not swallow it.

Nintendo strategy lately is about making an underpowered device so they don't have to invest a lot of money and waiting to hit the jackpot miraculously like the Wii did.

Keep playing that game Nintendo. You will not get a dollar from me.

[_-EDMIX-_]

I agree I believe that Nintendo should have Marketed this with their strong point which is portable and I think they should have been okay announcing this as their new handheld that could out to the television , continuously saying console not only confuses the install base but it makes it sound as if you're going to get a level of performance that is similar to PlayStation 4 or Xbox One and I believe that's a losing battle , their best bet was to focus on their main install base which is there portable Market.

The reality is regardless of how salty Nintendo Fanboys are about this subject, Switch is basically in layman's term a portable that could out to the television with a docking station , that's actually no different than what the PSP was with the accessory the cradle, that did the exact same thing.

So if Sony made a Vita 2 and they also decided to pack in the Cradle for free that allows Gamers to play on the television , would you guys seriously be making it sound like Sony wasn't copying a Nintendo? The way I see this it's all in how you Market it.

I think people need to accept what this is and call it like it is, this is Nintendo's next handheld.

Nintendo was quietly exiting the dedicated Home console Market.

They are clearly now primarily focusing on their Portables. Outing to the TV is a polite comfortable swansong to their console fans.

[nitus10]

Normally when Nintendo markets a handheld they target children and young adults although all ages can play it. If you look at the relatively few PS Vita adverts the handheld is targeted at the teen to young adult market and again all ages can play.

When viewing the Switch's marketing I never saw one pre-teen kid in the sales pitch. It is obvious that kids as well as well as any age group can play the machine as well but the marketing appears to be mainly targeting late teens to adults. With this in mind if you are the parent would you be buying a console/handheld for your kid and if you trust them with the handheld part without supervision then would you also trust their friends as well?

[NohansenBoy]

Just make good games for it...

[Eonjay]

Exactly.

[Yohshida]

My little Sister will get one for sure. Im not really sold on it. I can't go back to a system without any Trophys or Partychat. I like to play online and nintendo sure is the wrong platform for that. But maybe they can surprise me with some great features.

[Eonjay]

But we don't really know their full plans for the platform yet so I would suggest waiting for more info.

[Yohshida]

Well, we know its nintendo. Don't expect too much.

[NovusTerminus]

That's what they always say, and then when it stops getting support due to not being able to run the games, or running at such a sub par experience people go elsewhere for the games. Then everyone wonders what happened.

[VsAssassin]

It matters in my opinion. The Switch is a novel idea; however, it needs to woo in big 3rd party devs or else it's gonna be another Wii U. If the Switch can truly set itself apart from the competition without scaring away 3rd party devs, then success is nigh! Until then you can't blame people for being skeptical.

[kraenk12]

Like with the Vita it will depend on western gamers to buy the system. If they don't sell no one will create software for it.

[toddybad]

If the specs are really lower- and they really have to be given the form - then switch is DOA. In a couple of years (2019) we'll have the next MS/PS generation and we already have pro and scorpio. Switch will sell the latest mario, mario kart and zelda but then what? That's been the problem for a while. Personally i think becoming a software house is the way to go for Nintendo. Make an absolute mint on multi platform devices bringing perfect nintendo software to the masses and just call time on a failing hardware division.

[PhoenixUp]

In 2006 Shigeru Miyamoto was quoted saying "The consensus was that power isn't everything for a console. Too many powerful consoles can't coexist. It's like having only ferocious dinosaurs. They might fight and hasten their own extinction." And everybody held it to high regard.

A decade later in 2016 if Nintendo ever applied this line of thinking to their next console they would get crucified to high heaven.

[jmc8888]

No, that's sophistry. It has nothing to do with gaming.

The desire for more power, to deliver better graphics and new experiences is at the heart of gaming. It's what has drove this industry. Trying to go around that reality is what Nintendo is doing, and it has failed very hard at it.

The only way to compete is to compete. Otherwise you are a niche product trying to carve out a small slice. That's what Nintendo is at this point. A niche product. Niche products are hard for big devs to support, because niche, means there is a severe limit in returns for working on a niche console. Thus anything they do for that niche console, has to cost less then the limited returns they are going to get.

But guess what. Whatever Nintendo sells, still competes, whether they like it or not, with Sony and MS.

So spending money on screens and sacrificing power and getting higher costs for portability is a design decision that has consequences. With it costing more to produce, it's less competitive against Sony and MS. With less power, it's less competitive against Sony and MS.

Yes they are doing their own thing, but it's still a competing product, still battling for limited resources from gamers.

So if they want to produce these different consoles, they have to make sure that HOW they are making it different, actually appeals enough via that difference to get people to buy and overlook the downsides.

I don't see that at all with Switch. Their differentiation, doesn't matter to most people. So the decision to make it less competitive against it's competitors, does not add much value to the vast majority of gamers.

Oh it might sound cool to a decent more percentage. But that doesn't matter. It's all about getting people to actually take the plunge and buy.

The only way to survive is giving enough people what they want and keeping your costs below that. If Nintendo can keep it's costs low in other areas, it can survive making niche products.

But here in 2016, we don't really have powerful consoles. A powerful console in 2016 would be 10 TFlops, or even 8, not 4.2. So we have to realize that no one even makes powerful consoles anymore. Scorpio, if 6 in late 2017, that's not powerful. So what Nintendo hasn't realized is that Sony and MS don't make powerful consoles. They make decent power machines. Nintendo now is producing basically a handheld now and calling it a console.

[Emme]

I dont see me sitting with three buddies (or even one) in front of that small screen honestly, the multiplayer just doesnt work. Its smaller than an ipad !

[Ark_]

Connect it to the TV?

[Ninte]

I'm sure Nintendo has learnt their lesson from the wii and wii u! We will get more info in three weeks time.

[Vasto]

We will find out if it matters are not very soon.

[quent]

Jaycptza@ I don't own a Titan-X and him owning or not owning a ps4 pro is not the point I was trying to make, it was his dismissive attitude he had towards a console with weaker hardware vs a console/pc with more powerful hardware and how it will hold back development.

So to make a long story short I was being Ironic and drew a quick comparison to the first thing that came to mind, comparing hardware considered powerful and show it as being weak by comparison, but more importantly that hardware with such a huge power gap can still run the same games with a few compromises, how big those compromises will be, we don't know yet.

[WelkinCole]

I hate it when people are one dimensional in their thinking. Everything matters. If power does not matter devs wouldn't be asking for newer hardware.

This is similar to graphics and gameplay argument. They all matter. Everything does. Story, sound, acting etc etc

Power matters. Price matters. Games it has matters. They all matter

[_LarZen_]

Just as it didn't matter with the WiiU?

[masterfox]

Of course it doesn't matter,third parties devs will only click a few options here and there on their respective game engines to make the game look almost the same on the Switch, is going to be sooo easy for them, can't wait for Red Dead Redemption 2 for the Switch.

LOL! :D

[classic19]

Hahaha. The sarcasm of it all

[sk8ofmnd]

I think it will run dark souls 2 like the ps3 version of dark souls 2... Like poop

Mcstorm:

This is start of a new generation from nintendo and it has the screen resoltion of tech from 2006? Fail

Its power is rumored to be weaker than xb1 from 2013? Double Fail

How is that possible? How can this be considered the start of the 9th generation?? Oh its nintendo! They set their standards so low so they will never let themselves down...

[V3Jay]

To be honest, the screen resolution is fine and that doesn't bother me at all in the slightest as long as you get 1080p when docked. What, you expect the screen to be 1080p or more and want the battery life in that thing to die out fast?

[Npugz7]

Like hell it doesn't!!! They never learn! Why the hell do you think they never get 3rd part aaa titles!

[sk8ofmnd]

Agreed

[corroios]

This means zero games at 1080p in 2017, except last gen games at best. It will be nice portable

[Bismarn]

I've decided I hate these "Indie dev says...." opinion pieces on N4G more than open ended question opinion pieces.

[MetroidFREAK21]

It matters to a certain extent...

[Malice-Flare]

for 3rd parties, its only true for handhelds...

[Mrveryodd]

Less power than Xbox and yet it is going to do vr ?
Maybe.....hope it does as they have some games that would be great in vr ... VR pilot wings would be nice ..

[MrSec84]

If the rumors of switch using a 1tflop Maxwell gpu are true then it's going to be more capable than XB1, 1tflop current NVidia is basically 1.5tflops current AMD, compared to the 2012-13 AMD gpu tech in PS4 and XB1 switch could be pretty close to PS4, even if Nintendo Switch only hits around the 700gflops mark that could be enough for it to match XB1-S.

NVidia's flops aren't a direct 1 to 1 with AMD's, you only need to compare retail pc gpus to see this.

[Firebird360]

I love nintendo but the switch will be their worst selling console to date. Only beading edge power would sell this thing. But no, what you'll get is a portable wiiu.

[Firebird360]

The biggest problem will be the incredibly poor quality of the screen.

[sk8ofmnd]

And outdated hardware
And low bandwith
And stupid small joy cons
And pricepoint
And no zelda on launch
And no metroid on lauch
And no online mp

[kingjames18]

I won't even think about buying this thing until Zelda comes out and it better be worth it or I'll just get a cheap used WiiU on ebay to play it.

[MrSec84]

There's a major issue here that many naysayers are either unaware of or they choose to ignore and that is that you can't do a straight 1 to 1 comparison of compute performance between AMD and NVidia gpu architectures.
Pascal at 3.855tflops either matches or beats 5.8tflops in current AMD gpu architectures, NVidia Maxwell basically offers the same performance per flop compared to Pascal, it's just that Pascal is more power efficient largely because Pascal is made on a more efficient node.

Comparing old 2012-13 AMD gpu tech like we have in PS4 and XB1 to 2015-17 stuff we could see a 1tflop NVidia gpu hitting the same end results as a 1.5tflop 2016 AMD gpu which could easily be pretty close to PS4, most likely at least a bit faster than XB1's GPU.

Really comparing Switch's GPU to PS4 and XB1 is apples to oranges.

[sk8ofmnd]

Youre seriously reaching. Id love for them to make a console that powerful but heres a question for you. What happens if the rumors of the base system costing 250 are true? Thats going to be another lacking underpowered piece of tech from nintendo just like the wii and the wiiu.

[MrSec84]

There's no reaching involved in my comments, I'm simply educating uninformed individuals such as yourself on the differences between different GPU manufacturer's architectures.
As for cost it's entirely feasible for Nintendo to assemble a system with that level of GPU Compute Performance, a 6 to 7 inch 1080p screen and everything else shown for $250.

You don't provide any evidence or logical deductions to refute what I'm saying in this reply of yours.

A 1tflop NVidia Gpu, backed by the other reasonable rumored components would be ample to run games on a level between XB1 and PS4, if those specs are correct then Switch would be capable enough to fit in fine with current gen base game requirements.

The only person reaching in this conversation is you.

[StraightedgeSES]

Lol power don't matter to fanboys. Face it if the switch was more powerful than the ps4 pro you clowns still wouldn't buy it just like your not buying the xbox scorpio. My advice to those buying the switch enjoy it don't let these fanboys bring you down.

[sk8ofmnd]

Its the fact these ppl think that great power can fit in that device as small as it is, have great battery life, and cost 250... These fanboys are delusional and it cracks me up.

[abra511]

less than ps4pro maybe
but base ps4 that was released 3 years ago
i say it kinda matters

[kingjames18]

I'd have preferred to see Switch be on par with PS4 Pro at least semi bridge into the next generation. Remember this is a new console so unless they plan on releasing an actual console successor and not just this hybrid then they need to be more powerful then PS4 or Xbox One otherwise they are just another weakly powered Wii U 2.0 who will be way behind when in a couple years we have fully fledged Next Gen machines for Sony and MS.

[sk8ofmnd]

Its def going to be a wiiu 2.0 lol. For it to be what youre and i am wanting in this switch, it would be in the pricerange of 400-500$$ easilly. But you and i both know if the rumors of it being 250-300 come to fruition, it will basically be what the wiiu intended to be and at not much more power than it. I love nintendo fangirls... Their delusions absolutely astound me. Nothing like delusions of grandeur from others to give a good laugh.

[rjason12]

So we're not going to follow the actual facts that we have and go for rumors only (at least only negative rumors)? Bethestha released a statement about how they wouldn't work on it, unless it was at least on par with Xbone, and we've seen skyrim on it. Nvidia said that it's based on their top of the line hardware.

[mysteryraz11]

It's just another gimmick

[sk8ofmnd]

Mrsec84

I believe youre reaching sir. Even if the switch was "theoretically" close to that of an xb1, the system is still severely bottlenecked by the rumor of it only having 3 gb of ram. Which is less than half of what both current gen systems have and i can guarantee you the bandwith will be at much lower speeds on the switch. Also, youre talking about nintendo and the fact they never go for bleeding tech, rumored to cost 250$$, how amazing and powerful do you expect the switch to be for 250?? Peanuts my friend PEANUTS! and the size of that thing is uber small... Oh and you cant dismiss the fact the switch already most likely went into production long before all these rumors of newer chipsets arised. The simple fact is its only going to be marginally more capable than the wiiu, which isnt saying much. The fact it comes with a 720p most likely at 30 fps... How powerful does it have to be to run tech from 2006?? Jw

[MrSec84]

As I replied below your beliefs are unfounded.

BTW NVidia GPU architecture is significantly more efficient when it comes to memory requirements, it's not clear that Switch only has 3GBs of RAM, but even if it does internal GPU caches and the way Maxwell/Pascal render graphics or handle general GPU compute isn't the same as the older and less advanced AMD tech in the base PS4 and XB1.

The fact Nintendo chose NVidia, despite their past console relationship missteps speaks volumes.
As for the size of the system, have you even seen how slim modern gaming laptops are?
The fact you make such silly and uninformed comments proves you have no understanding of this topic, or the technoligies and economics involved in this market.

Pascal went into production before the summer this year, Maxwell has been out for far longer, I can dismiss any claims of yours when they're all assumed and never based in reality.

The form factor of Switch, along with the capabilities of both modern NVidia SOC tech and battery power storage make it definitively a fact for Switch to be significantly more powerful than the Wii U, certainly within the rumored 3 to 4X Wii U in raw gflops, a teraflop NVidia inside a Switch tablet sized device is easily doable today.

Quit making a fool of yourself, you're not giving reasonable deductions on this topic, just unsupported claims, with no understanding of the subject matter.

[sk8ofmnd]

Unsupported claims? Did you not see the new leak on bandwith??? I was right! This system has weaksauce written all over it. And its running on OLDER hareware... OLDER. It seems that you are the uneducated... Remember google is your friend. Drop the rose tinted nintendo glasses and see the switch for what it is. Another weak console just like the wii and wiiu before it. It never was meant to be this uber gaming platform because it never was. This is nintendo exit of the home console market and that to me is the saddest thing of all.

Watch digital foundys newest video. Id believe what they are saying about the switch long before some no named nobody on a n4g thread!

[rjason12]

@sk8
So we're taking rumor over fact now? What they put out is a rumor, what Nvidia said about cutting edge chips and building the Switchs chips from the ground-up are facts. Nvidia even stated that there is 500 man years of research and engineering in the switchs chips. Go ahead and keep spreading false rumors you troll.

[MrSec84]

@sk8: I actually understand the technoligies involved, it's not something you or anyone can argue against, NVidia's 2015 architecture is night and day more efficient than even 2016 AMD tech, comparing Maxwell to 2012-13 AMD tech there's a massive difference between the final output performance, Nvidia are miles ahead of AMD.

DF confirm this in their own retail GPU tests, they even state in the latest Switch rumor article that they don't know the exact specs of Switch's SOC and they're going by what they've been told, it's not like they have a Switch SOC in their office, which they're able to get analyzed be professionals like Chipworks.

3rd party devs haven't reported that Switch is worlds away from XB1 or PS4.
I'm well aware of the full scope of rumors, along with technical capabilities of NVidia, AMD tech from the last decade, along with how much performance these devices can handle with the form factors available.

My comments are made with solid facts as the basis, not fanboy bias for Nintendo, I'm actually looking at the size of Switch, what NVidia Maxwell could do at 16nm (it would be all but indistinguishable from Pascal) and extrapolating on what is possible in that size of device.

NVidia tech doesn't need the bandwidth of AMD's GPUs, just look at how the gtx 980 with 224GB/S is right on the heels of the R9 Fury even though Fury has 512GB/s of memory bandwidth. That's less than half the bandwidth, but NVidia Maxwell could basically keep up, plus 980 only used 165 watts, Fury needed 275 watts.

Google is friend for a lot of this real information, I don't just go off of rumors, I reference what is known about the real tech involved and then derive conclusions based on the facts.

[Kurdishcurse]

if nintendo are planning to fly to the moon, they wont do it with a wood-propeller plane. theyll need a powerful rocket for that. if people think the only thing you can do with power is higher fps/res and better graphics, then they are mistaken.

[Trekster_Gamer]

It doesn't really matter. Nintendo has not given major 3rd party developers the time of day in many years. They rest purely on 1st paty devs. I like the concept, we will just have to wait and see what they can do with it.

[TC731]

Dear Nintendo:

Ditch the gimmicks or go the way of Sega please.

[JMyers]

When it comes to third party support, power does matter. I am waiting to see what support the switch gets and how non-Nintendo games run on them before buying.

[Miacosa]

False, this totally impacts 3rd party support unless the Switch hits like hotcakes like the Wii did. If consumer interest is similar to that of the WiiU, Nintendo will be in trouble of having no major 3rd party support again. Plus aiming for original PS4/XB1 specs is bad anyway considering that at console many thought that both PS4/XB1 were already under power to start hence the earlier rev cycle. The Switch coming in under power means that in the next 2 to 3 years we're looking at only Nintendo published games again or their own new hardware rev cycle.

[andrewsquall]

Since when has power EVER mattered to a Nintendo portable console? They are pretty much always a generation behind the times. Gameboy was a colorless NES, GBA was a Snes with a crapper sound chip 10 years later, DS was N64, 3DS was a Gamecube. If this NX one (lol) is anyway more powerful than a Wii U, it will be a bonus.

[yomfweeee]

Nintendo says that the primary purpose of the Switch is a "home console", so power should matter.

[CrimsonWing69]

Right just like the Wii U.

[FyBy]

Hell guys, on switch we only need super mario bros, mario kart and couple of zeldas. Remasters of all zeldas and its a nobrainer lol :-)

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

I still find funny how people try to say it's weak when all the power is coming from Tablet.
A home console that a tablet that can have that much power isn't weak.

[DarkKaine]

It doesnt't matter if its underpowered.
I mean Yooka Laylee is still coming to WiiU.
Oh wait, it was cancelled due to "technical difficulties" aka the game cant even reach 30fps on 720p because Unity runs terrible on it.
They absolutely need power and a solid SDK to take advantage of the system.

[SinisterKieran]

i think for continued 3rd party support it'll need to be as powerful. look how terrible games already run on the current gen.
but everybody loves nintendo's 1st party so...just put a pokemon game on it

[SugarSoSweet]

Why won't Nintendo reveal the CPU, RAM and GPU Specs what are they afraid of?

[yomfweeee]

They're afraid of something just because they aren't on your schedule? They have a January event announced already.

[Altovoltage]

It does matter because they're th tying to appeal kids and kids rather using a phone or a tablet.

[Octo1]

All im going to say is this. The WiiU when announce had 3rd party support and had nice things said about it by 3rd party devs. Look at the state of it now. It's hard to get excited for a Nintendo console nowadays 😏

[Octo1]

LOL. Down vote for stating a fact. Classic N4G :/

[Taero]

So we're going to be 4 years in, with PS4 Pro and possibly a stronger Scorpio releasing and here comes switch being weaker than the OG versions of both systems...wat. I just don't get where the get the idea that people don't care about graphics/strength/effects etc. Sure gameplay is important but it's supported by strength. The wii was unique in that it tapped a new user base due to the motion controls, wii u couldn't do that. So we've got a new console that's mostly a handheld that can project to a TV that won't be able to play games that are 4 years old now to the same fidelity (to use a crude example minus new architecture trickery).

Maybe I'm wrong and people really do want a med power console as a handheld but I think they're a different demographic to me, I guess we'll see with the sales. But by the time this has been out a couple of years we'll be seeing the PS5 and X box equiv.

[Loadedklip]

I think the Switch's power will be fine in that I view the Switch as a SUPER 3DS. It just happens that its the most powerful portable system ever that it will still look good on a 50 inch HDTV. We already know its more powerful than Wii U and honestly ... a 3DS successor with the Wii U's power would have been more than enough for me. Anything else is gravy.

[jmc8888]

That's complete BS. Of course power level matters. The guy is talking out of his butt, with grand assumptions.

Now, does it matter as much for indie devs. In one way no... in another way yes

For himself, he probably sees his indie game as being able to run on Switch. That does not mean everyone.

Whatever your game is, it takes a certain amount of power to run it. This varies wildly. There are many games, that don't run well even at PS4's power level. We've also seen that many games don't run well even at PS4 PRO's power level. PS4 and XB1S are underpowered, and so a significantly more underpowered Switch would have issues.

Nintendo Switch, will not get those games. Not having those games, will affect sales. So when he says, it doesn't matter.... only to HIM.

Many devs won't invest much until a few things happen.
1. The system sells enough to make a profit on ports of the game.
2. The system sells enough to make a profit on exclusives, like a Beyond Good and Evil 2.
3. That the people who buy the system, buy the games.

Some will dip a toe in. Ubisoft supported Wii U well at first. Then when it didn't sell well, and their games didn't sell well, they dropped most of their support.

Some games it might not even be feasibly possible, given that every game HAS to work 'on the go' in a lower power mode. A mode that might take a docked 0.5-0.75 TFlops worth of power and cut it in half. Games designed to work well, like 1080/60 on 3-5 TFlops of power, are going to have issues getting that game to work on essentially 1/10th the power.

We also have to remember, that using lower assets than even XB1 and then a notch even lower than that for on the go mode, means that the bottom two rungs of assets will be for Switch ports and they'll have to get both working on docked/on the go mode. While not hard to do, it does add time, testing complexity, and thus cost to do so.

[jmc8888]

Ultimately Switch has to convince buyers to buy it. How many people really care about gaming on the go? Especially in a world with smartphones. When just about everyone has a gaming device in their pocket, the need for a dedicated additional one plummets. Many people just don't want to game 'on the go'. Many people don't like it, or logistically can't do it. Many people don't want to carry one around, and this thing isn't going to exactly fit in a pocket no is it?

Then you have the power/price proposition as well as competition by competitors. $229-339 or so is pretty darn expensive for what they offer. It's pretty much the bottom of the barrel for value.

OG PS4 and XB1S will basically be cheaper then one to two of the three configurations of Switch. PS4/XB1S will have more power, huge library, and guaranteed to have 3rd party support. Designed in a way that most gamers want to play.

If you want PS4 Pro, then it's only about $60 more expensive then Switch for an absolute massive power difference. It's like saying a Pinto costs you $10k, and a corvette $12k. Which are people more likely to buy if everyone knows this? So it's kind of in no mans land price wise. Not cheap enough to be a value against the others, and too expensive against the higher offerings like PS4 Pro.

We also know Sony and MS can cut the price of PS4/XB1S to make the value proposition of Switch even worse.

Switch has a very uphill climb. The 'need' or 'desire' to game on the go will not be a positive factor in the eyes of 70-80-90 percent of people that game. Good luck bringing in casuals to buck that trend. They have their cellphones. Which are no additional cost, and free games as opposed to $60. The switch will not have 'motion controls' fad momentum behind it. I bet most casuals won't even notice it, assuming it's just another handheld device like they've seen coming out since the 1980's.

The Switch is aimed at the market of Nintendo consumers who generally buy both of their products. A handheld and a console. This is a very, very small market. But if you are in it, it looks like an amazing value.

[jmc8888]

Of course, it has appeal to Nintendo consumers who buy their consoles, but never their handhelds. Not as much appeal, or value to them, but still likely viewed as a good or interesting product. Some though will balk as they don't want another Wii U, which to these people, it should dawn on them that it basically is. A Wii U with a shot at some support, but they want to see that support come to fruition and wait.

No matter what they say, this IS Wii U 2 from a conceptual level, or what should of been the Wii U from the get-go. It's the idea finally matured. The problem is, we know most people don't care for that idea. It doesn't matter to them. It doesn't add value for them. The Wii U was the beta, this Switch is the device they wanted. But it's not 2010, it's going to be 2017.

That's why I see it as hard pressed to sell a ton. A device with a handheld and console has the 'potential' of selling the combined numbers of the previous lines that catered to both. So somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 million in sales is what should be possible theoretically. In reality though, I don't see it anywhere near that. Probably more like 25-60 million if it doesn't absolutely take off, and I don't see the hook or casual appeal that will allow it to take off.

If this thing sells 35 million, will it get a significant amount of exclusives or ports? We'll see. But history doesn't show it to be very favorable. Probably more than the Wii U, but not nearly as much as one would hope for.

Power always matters. It determines what you can do with the machine creatively. It determines how expensive the parts are. It helps set the overall price. It determines what value for the price the device is. It determines how it fits in among its competitors.

[joab777]

I remember reading an article very similar to this one not too long ago. I just don't get why they wouldn't make it at least as powerful as the PS4 even if the tablet is less powerful but close. They've had the jump on MS and Sony for 3 generations and each time choose to go small and gadgety.

[sk8ofmnd]

Mrsec84:
Unsupported claims? Did you not see the new leak on bandwith??? I was right! This system has weaksauce written all over it. And its running on OLDER hareware... OLDER. It seems that you are the uneducated... Remember google is your friend. Drop the rose tinted nintendo glasses and see the switch for what it is. Another weak console just like the wii and wiiu before it. It never was meant to be this uber gaming platform because it never was. This is nintendo exit of the home console market and that to me is the saddest thing of all.

Watch digital foundys newest video. Id believe what they are saying about the switch long before some no named nobody on a n4g thread!

[Fearmonkey]

It seems every new Nintendo console starts with "It doesnt matter how powerful it is" or "it doesnt matter if its as powerful as other current consoles"....I miss the days when Nintendo made higher performance systems.

[sk8ofmnd]

Very well said. Ive made these exact claims before. But most in here would rather put their fingers in their ears going.... Lalala i cant hear youuuu

[Garethvk]

It will not be an issue at first like the Wii U but over time, more and more third party developers will opt out as they will have the more powerful systems and 4K versions to run their games on.

[Kokyu]

For the games I want to play power matters.

[ziggurcat]

"Nintendo Switch Being Less Powerful Than PS4 And Xbox One Doesn’t Matter"

it does to me. why would i invest in a new console that's not at least as powerful as the competition?

[Psychonaut85]

Why do these sites always get the opinion of some random indie developers about console power. The hell do I care what some mediocre indie developer thinks, of course he says it won't be a big deal, lots of these indie games would probably run just fine on a PS3. It's not relevant. Of course the Switch will be strong enough for indie titles, no ones worried about that, they're worried about it pulling off comparable AAA cross platform titles without being majorly dumbed down like the Wii, or just nonexistent like the Wii U.

[xDealtwithIt]

It does matter. This whole gen we were told that power does matter and if you want to play the latest games then you have to have the power.

[Smokingunz]

Haha I like that! "Even if it isn't as powerful as the ps4 and x1 if anything else it'll be the most powerful handheld " lol that is true.