Playstation 3 Mandatory Installs - Will They Become A Problem?

With the announcement that the Playstation 3 version of Bioshock kicks off with a 5gb mandatory install, the question now has to be raised, Will these mandatory installs on the Playstation 3 become a problem?

[Cajun Chicken]

Are PC game installs a problem?

[HighDefinition]

Optional= Framerate/Texture Loading Problems.

Optional WILL become MANDATORY, hence the reason for the 160GB.

BTW, I have NO problem w/ installs @ all. Infact I kinda like them, I relax a smoke some "Fantasy Herb Pipe" LOL

[ReBurn]

Installs for consoles are still such a new concept. I think that's what the flap is over. It's really only an issue because to have more than 6 or 7 games installed you have to upgrade your hard drive. Which is something else console gamers have never had to do.

Doesn't bother me all that much. If I get low on space I just delete something. I don't keep my life stored on my console's hard drive.

[HighDefinition]

What up Re-Burn, haven`t seen/read/heard/you get my point.....in a while.

Welcome back.

[season007]

same thing can be true for the computer
No matter how large a HDD you have if you don't delete/uninstall stuff it will be filled up, console, PC, mac..it is always the truth..

The only way to solve it is to DELETE/Uninstall what you don't need or to upgrade the HDD, same for consoles, PC, Mac...etc.

Why would it be a problem when this "so-called" problem existed since we started using a computer 10+ years ago..I think back then computers were having like couple mbs storage space

[Genesis5]

For some it seems they are. For me no big deal. Play and delete it's quite simple. If you can't find something to do for the 10 or 20 minutes it takes to install then there is something wrong. I mean really. Read the instruction booklet or some news or something.

[meepmoopmeep]

the fact that you can easily install any 2.5" HDD or delete files you don't need.

NO.

[NegativeCreep427]

People may b*tch and complain about it now, but once they see the benefits that installs bring to the overall gaming experience they will start to understand (at least I hope they will. Towards installs on the PS3 they probably won't)

Doesn't anyone remember the slight backlash gamers had towards consoles like the Sega 32x and the PSX when CD-based software was taking over cartridges. Gamers all complained about loading times and how stupid and annoying it was, but now we have all seen the momentous leap in software quality that has occurred thanks to the CD/DVD software evolution that occurred in the late 90's and early 2000's.

The next step in software evolution is just getting started; Blu-Ray

[bunbun777]

Highhhhh Definition. Hahahaaaha. Bubbles for liking the same fantasy as me!

[Ozzyb]

I will never understand why people care about installs. If you seriously mind waiting ten minutes to be able to play a game for hours and hours, you are seriously a fool. You have the worst kind of brain-disease and you should probably be more concerned with that than any install times. If the space is really an issue, then delete something.. You aren't going to play all of your games simultaneously, are you? These articles and the people that actually think installs are a problem, are such a waste of space. If you are worried about installing things, welcome back to 1990. I hope you enjoy your Commander Keen cuz that's all you're getting.

[INehalemEXI]

They are an Inconvenience not a problem. Its like ordering a pizza sure its the tastiest food on the planet but you must wait for delivery.

[Sitdown]

"If the space is really an issue, then delete something.."

So what you are saying is...I should be forced to delete pictures and music off my hard drive so I can install a game or are you saying I should delete previous installs on my hard drive so that I can play a new game...and then when I want to go back to the other game sit and wait for the install all over again? Installs can become a problem if developers get out of control with it.....I mean, especially if the ps3 is looking to last 10 years.....think about it..7+ years worth of installs? I rather just change out a disc....all the reason why I disc changer in the next generation would be welcomed.

[Ozzyb]

You must have games that you have beaten thoroughly and probably won't go back to either at all or for quite some time, at which time if you really want to, can reinstall. I'm not saying you will never need a new harddrive, I just don't think people need every last thing that they keep on their harddrives. The solution is relatively cheap in comparison to competition and also is exactly the same solution for your pc. Granted, the laptop harddrives are a little more expensive than their full-sized PC counterparts, but still something that is easy and will last you quite some time. I have 8 disc-based games, 4 PSN games (one being the Socom Beta) and some demos and still have 50/80 GBs free. Now I'm not picking you out in particular, because I agree with you as well. I don't mind it being disc-reading or installing, my main concern is the quality of what I'm getting.

I don't think all games should have mandatory installs, because frankly, not all games are worth it. But I wouldn't want quality to suffer based on whether or not a game is installed. At the same time, you are free to use an external harddrive or upgrade any time you see fit, for a reasonable price.

PS. I would never (unless they became nearly flawless) want a disc-changer in any of my consoles. Moving parts have a higher tendency to break and I don't mind swapping discs. Maybe if they included the ability to change the disc-drive when necessary, then I would go for it.

[littletad]

Goodness, that's alot of sandwiches. Either way, much like backward compatibility, I don't think Sony fans will be bothered by it.

[Sitdown]

I was not necessarily speaking for myself......cause I still have plenty of room on my hard drive......well on my ps3 drive that is. When I think about my 360 though, a lot of data is taking up by game saves and xbla titles. Now if I think about the ps3, if I began to download a lot of psn titles over the years and include that with other things I truly want to keep.....then I can see it becoming a problem. And in all honesty, there really is no set pattern in which I play games....at any time I might decide to revisit a game. I just do not want developers to get sloppy and begin to abuse this ability. I guess that is what I am saying...it has the potential to be a problem, if left unchecked.....even if at minimal level it is a problem with convenience.

[NegativeCreep427]

oh yeah IDemonstalker, Pizza may be the tastiest snack on the planet, but you don't have to wait for it.

It's Not Delivery, It's Digiorno!!!

That is proof right there that xbox 360 is superior with its no mandatory installs......LOL! Just Kidding Just Kidding! I'm just joshing you man! Digiorno sucks harder than Chris Crocker too.

[CrazzyMan]

so far.
OPTIONAL - GOOD.
MANDORITY - EVIL.

I always prefered console over PC, and one of reasons was:
you just insert disc and PLAY, that is what consoles about. =)

I don`t mind 1-2 min. INSTALLs between chapters or etc., because during that time my EYES can REST.
I wish developers would have this in mind.

[Ozzyb]

Yea, I pretty much agree with you there. I don't think we really thought too differently about it in the first place.

Edit: The hell? Did I lose a bubble during this discussion? That's lame..

[dantesparda]

And a big one at that. Games are not installed on the PS3 because the HDD is such a big advantage as they are on the PC (even though it is in comparison to the blu-ray drive). But rather because they are trying to mask the weakness of the blu-ray disc drive's slow transfer rates. Believe you me, if the blu-ray disc wasnt so slow, they would not be doing this. Im sorry but this is a disgrace! Sony has fvck up on to many fronts this generation. Luckily for them they are clawing their way out of it and MS seems to be asleep at the wheel lately, lol. Now disagree away b!tches

[Sitdown]

Yeah...it sounds like we were on similar pages; I failed to be more specific in the beginning while making my point. I do not know why you lost a bubble...but I will bubble you up.

Edit: You are back up to eight.

[Ozzyb]

Yes sir indeed. lol I guess I did get it back. If it was from you, thank you. If from someone else, thanks as well. Bubbles for you too ~

[Elimin8]

That article was really a waste. rant till the end then all of a sudden it went off topic.

"What we have to remember is in this day, No console is perfect and if you feel strongly about the negative aspects of your console then the only way to truly win is to own both consoles".

What the hell.. what was the point then beetching about the installs.....?

[UnSelf]

Not as long as the PS3 allows u to upgrade ur HDD

[Common Sense]

It's a developer thing.
If Sony makes a rule that Installs should never pass 1GB, developers will be forced to do so.

[HighDefinition]

Uncharted.

1) No install
2) One load
3) No MAJOR issues
4) One amazing game

[Harry190]

the most talented developer when it comes to the technical aspect of things on the Playstation consoles. They stream the data permanently,that's why you don't have the loading screens. They did this for the first time in Jak and Daxter 1 (Their Masterpiece according to me). If any studio out there had the same people working for it, you would see even better games on the PS3 very quickly. (Not to mention they are they lead the Edge tools project)

[Cajun Chicken]

Yep. Naughty Dog always had that streaming trick back from the Crash Games since Crash 2 and it continued into the Jaks to Uncharted
No idea how they do it and Insomniac usually has some type of animation, like when Spyro flew and the score was counted up or a space ship traveling in Ratchet and Clank games to make the loading screen look visually appealing.

[VF34EJ25]

IMO I wouldn't have mind a one-time install for Uncharted seeing as how the whole game streams afterwards. Cause after each level loading, you guys gotta admit there's a ton of texture pop-ins when you first start. Sometimes those textures take as long as 10-12 seconds before it pops in. Granted, once they are in they look great.

But a small install could have made it immaculate in that area.

[HighDefinition]

I`m I the ONLY one who hasn`t seen texture loading in Uncharted, everytime someones says that it baffles me.

[kai_h]

I've only seen pop-up in Uncharted, about three times. Sure pop-up's not always welcome, but when you can get a game with no load times, high quality textures, and no install(s), you have to question the games that have not-as-good textures, load times, and (an) install(s).

Naughty Dog made a game without installs and high quality textures, and they've probably stuck the technique in the Edge Tools. Insomniac has the Nocturnal Project as well. This can contribute to games with no installs possibly, but I'm afraid that some companies are too proud to say, "Look, I need some help".

[GarandShooter]

HD, I'm in chapter 19 on crushing getting my last few trophies. I, like you, have never seen textures pop in.

[HighDefinition]

Ok I`m not crazy.

Uncharted FTW.

[SlyGuy]

quite frequently in uncharted.

Usually only at the start of a level, when entering a new area, or after a cutscene.

Only once did it last for about 6-7 seconds, but usually only for 2 seconds.

Once it loads you do see the best graphics on a console to date, but I do wish they could have prevented it totally.

[SwiffEpics]

Playstation 3's and Pc's are built completly different, infact 360 is more like the PC's architecture than the Ps3. Plus this article is more about Why there are installs and how it can be solved than bashing the installs themselves.

[Area_51]

gone to debate this every time a ps3 game comes out with a install. So to answer your question again NO, the price for a new hdd for the ps3 is cheap and easy to install.

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

Only a problem for idiots who don't know how to count!!!
Common your replace game loads with new games as you get them !

[GUNS N SWORDS]

"With the announcement that the Playstation 3 version of Bioshock kicks off with a 5gb mandatory install, the question now has to be raised, Will these mandatory installs on the Playstation 3 become a problem?

"First we have to ask the question, why do we need all these big mandatory installs on Playstation 3 games when the Xbox 360 does so well without them? That I believe is down to bluray, sure bluray has tons of capacity but the disc reads at an overall slower speed than DVD9, Therefore it is either have more load times in your games, or install data to your Hard Disk Drive to eliminate load times and make the game run more smoothly."

"Bourne Conspiracy Includes a Manadory Install on the Playstation 3

In conclusion I feel this loading issue could also be the cause of many Playstation 3 games being at 30fp and at low resolutions, and although mandatory installs can correct this issue, it is not a solution that can continue to be a growing trend if Sony wishes their platform to last ten years. If a game like Bourne Conspiracy can run on the Xbox 360 without an install then how does that look for Playstation 3? "

interesting but, ps3 can do 1080p, 720p, 30, and 60 fps, so i don't think blu ray has anything to do with that. i think it's just effecting loading times. (my opinion)

[zo6_lover27]

GT5p ran at 1080p and 60fps, and only had an optional install.

So it *could* be only related to loading times.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

well a majority of developers have already talked about reasons for mandatory installation, and it is pointing to loading times.

many reviewers have stated in the reviews of a few selected titles that mandatory installation aids in faster loading times.

[zo6_lover27]

I don't see why they should have to make them mandatory if their only for loading times though, it doesn't matter to me because I would be installing the game regardless.

[VF34EJ25]

Ratchet and clank Future runs in 1280x704 resolution @ a locked 60fps with NO install.

So frame rate or resolution has jack crap to do with disc speed.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

"I don't see why they should have to make them mandatory if their only for loading times though, it doesn't matter to me because I would be installing the game regardless."

hmmmm well first off, when that "FALL UPDATE" comes to XBL, i will will be using my HDD for all of my games, so yes, REGARDLESS of the option of having installing i would install it anyways.

most of the stuff i read off of various pages, they talk about why ps3 needs the HDD and at the same time 360 doesn't require it, as a 360 owner i would still do it even though it's not necessary, and if it wasn't mandatory for ps3 games, ps3 gamers will still use the HDD anyways.

"So frame rate or resolution has jack crap to do with disc speed."

yeah i fvcking said that already.

[Omega4]

Well in order for a PS3 game to reach its full protential it NEEDS installs. Look at MGS4, the best PS3 game out and it requires five 2-3min installs for each act AND still has multiple load screens

This trend will likely continue as game graphics advance so will the size and amount of installs required

Killzone 2 will likely set a new benchmark for the amount of installs required for a game

[zo6_lover27]

Uncharted
No install
No loading times
"Best looking console game so far this gen"-IGN

GT5p
1080p
60fps
Optional install

[Cajun Chicken]

Probably not. I don't know if you've played Killzone 1 (I didn't really like it) but it was technically amazing for being on the PS2 and pretty damn fast at loading.
I'll actually be VERY suprised if Killzone2 has a large install, I actually expect it to be almost on par with the speedy almost non-existent load times of Uncharted.

[HighDefinition]

OWNED!

Move along nothing to see here.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

The developers in an interview said they loaded whole levels onto the disc so there won't be any loading times. It will be interesting to see if it really requires an install or not.

[Omega4]

The reason Uncharted has so little load times is because its a very linear game with quite small environments. Also the lack of load times created a colossal amount of screen tearing

@ 5.2
That was with the PS2 which had a DVD drive not a bluray drive. Bluray means longer load times and mantaory installs and Killzone 2 will have one its almost certain

[zo6_lover27]

Do you have proof about how bluray is slower than DVD?

And the ps2 had a 4x DVD drive which is slow as S***

[Cajun Chicken]

Yes. But notice that Naughty Dog have been avoiding load times all the way back to Crash Bandicoot 2 which was on a CD-ROM and continued with the large open world Jak series without ONE loading screen on a DVD in 3 whole games.

If its all about streaming, I see no reason why Killzone2 can't do it too, since Guerrilla's last Killzone engine pretty much ran on the fly despite me not actually liking the game itself.

EDIT: Also while I'm at it...'small environments?' did you ever play all of the early chapters of Uncharted when you had to run across a whole jungle from the U-Boat backtracking the whole journey?

[VF34EJ25]

Uncharted's small environments indeed /sarcasm

http://www.vgblogger.com/wp...

http://files.playstatic.com...

Stop Omega4.

[Omega4]

Far enough there is a chance Killzone may not need an install but most high profile PS3 games require an install especially exclusives, even Bioshock a year old game needs a install. And i'll say again MGS4 needed 5 installs which i think is just pure crazyiness

So the chances are K2 will need an install since this isnt the PS2 or Naughty Dog we're talking about

Edit: i have played uncharted and the only time the environmemts are 'slightly' large is during the platforming parts where there are no enemies

[zo6_lover27]

There aren't many(if any) 1st party titles that require installs

EDIT

How did I get any disagrees on my above comment? I asked a question then stated a fact.

I will now answer the question and say that there is NO proof of this, I actually have proof otherwise.
http://www.gamespot.com/pag...

That should explain enough

[Cajun Chicken]

Why does Bioshock also need an install on PC then?
See, this is what I don't get.

How people can complain about installs of games when the PCs have been doing it for years, I don't know. There isn't a game on the PC that you can shove the disc in and play it straight away with non-existent load times and the same back with the Amiga, so I don't see the big fuss about it.

About MGS4, I don't know how that all works out, but I can only assume that's to make most of the cinematics to stream properly. But I still hear many people in the press and public saying its the best looking console game at the moment, so maybe those installs made the game work to its full potential, besides; Konami isn't a first party.
I'm not really a fan of MGS anyway.

EDIT: Omega4, I don't know how big you expect games to be. The areas in Uncharted are huge for a linear adventure game and don't just have set pathways, but patches of areas instead.
Taking the boat upstream is pretty huge as you have you go area to area to make gates.
Besides, is the God of War series known for having huge areas? No, they are small areas that are well designed and have gameplay. mechanics around the room to make the areas 'seem' bigger in size.

EDIT2: You seriously CAN'T say that Uncharted has small environments, I mean, you can't at all. I can't figure out how you can proclaim they ARE. There's no gap between running through a jungle shooting like mad, a collapsing tomb, climbing up a cliff to get inside a U-boat and all the way back.
Don't be suprised if Killzone2 actually doesn't have a mandatory install. That's all I'm saying. If it does, its probably due to the cinematics and to stream the soundtrack easier due to the overload of busy stuff going on the levels streamed from the disc.

[VF34EJ25]

Omega, you're so full of it it's ridiculous.

http://i5.photobucket.com/a...

http://www.videogamesblogge...

http://img.gamespot.com/gam...

[INehalemEXI]

Data Transfer rates:

PS3 has 2x Blu ray drive= Blu-ray 2x: 72Mbp / 8MBps

Reads at a constant speed of 8MBps anywhere on the disc

Xbox 360 has 12x DVD: 66 - 132Mbps / 8.2 - 16.5MBps

Reads faster on the outside of the disc and slower on the inside. If a disc is full it will reach max speed.

A dvd at max reads faster. So if a disc is full its going to read faster then a blu ray when reading the outer disc. If its half full it will read at about the same speed. Then there is also compression to look at because data is alot of times on dvd in need of uncompression while theres no need for that on blu ray due to the large capacity.

I would say the main reason for MGS4 having those installs inbetween acts is due to the differences of types of gameplay. Like shooting on the back of a Motorbike for part of one act, in another act for a part there is Hand 2 Hand, Fighting in Metal Gears etc. Just guessing. From looking back it seems like this...

It was made in acts because you got different elements of gameplay in various acts plus the normal combat in each. Then you have interactice cutscenes in each act as well. It may have been possible to do it all with one install. Yet probably far easier to just treat it as they where all seperate games so required an install inbetween at various points.

An Epic game anyway you slice it.

When looking at MGS4 your looking at one of the best games ever made.

@ Omega4

"Well in order for a PS3 game to reach its full protential it NEEDS installs."

No kidding ...any console ,pc game reaches its full potential when utilizing the HDD. Stop hating on KZ2 just because its shown itself to likely be the greatest looking FPS to grace a console.

[Omega4]

Some of the 1st party games which require installs:

Eye of Judgement 1.9GB
Heavenly Sword 2.1GB
Ratchet & Clank Future 0.42GB
Resistance: Fall of Man 0.22GB
Hot Shots Golf 5 3.6gb

Not sure if these count:
Gran Turismo 5: Prologue [Required] = 5.235GB
Warhawk w/ boosters [Required] = 1.098GB

There are likely more but thats all i could find for now, but the 3rd party list is much MUCH more extensive

@VF34EJ25
Why are you just giving links to random screens which prove nothing, infact the first shows a linear pathway, if anything your reinforceing what i said about the small environments

@Cajun Chicken
Im not saying anything is wrong with small environments im just saying that the only reason Uncharted has no loading or installs is because of the smaller environments. Killzone 2 enviroments look at a lot bigger than uncharted that why i think it will have an install

[ernsttco]

Your a loser you know that. Is it your life mission to talk bad about the PS3.

[Skadoosh]

Omega4 is a one man army. Be careful man, sony fans get pissed when they see an article like this. But your doing a good job on pwning these kids.

[Ozzyb]

Did you really care that MGS4 installed multiple times? All it did was give me enough time to mutter "Holy Sh#t that was awesome", grab a drink and get started on the next chapter. MGS4 could come out and kick me in the junk in between chapters and it would STILL be worth it. If it makes devs comfortable to throw installs in there to make their best product, then I say go for it!

[yanikins111]

@omega.

do your research buddy. none of those titles you listed were first party. the closest you came was 2nd party.

@skadoosh.
I agree. he is pwning us / end sarcasm.

Trolls ;)

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

"Some of the 1st party games which require installs:

Eye of Judgement 1.9GB
Heavenly Sword 2.1GB
Ratchet & Clank Future 0.42GB
Resistance: Fall of Man 0.22GB
Hot Shots Golf 5 3.6gb"

- Omega4

The only games that requires an install is Hot Shots Golf 5 and it's manditory. I just hope you're not confusing actually instals with the network topology. Some of what you comment on is true and false. Like for example you said Uncharted: Drake's Fortune is very linear, linear is linear. A vast majority of first person shooters are linear, you don't get a game like Far Cry 2 too often. lol I'm really late to respond too.

[name]

PS3 installs are mostly a problem for people who don't own a ps3.

[zo6_lover27]

You know, I've noticed that

[Ozzyb]

Agreed.

[Mr_Kuwabara]

I find them pretty annoying to be quite honest. I understand that some games should deserve installs because they might be pretty slow, but games like Bioshock? A game that came out last year ago needs a whooping 5Gb installation? :/

Ludicrous

[Cajun Chicken]

True. But I just find myself deleting and backing up data I don't need, much like when I used to game on the PC a lot.

I'm not playing those games all the time and I find myself deleting the optional UTIII installation files a lot. Its really no biggie for me, except from waiting a few minutes to play the game. I still get to keep my save data, just not the game data.
I personally find its far better than the 20 minute to 45 minutes installs of PC games I was used to.

[rawd]

If installing games gives you problems, you need to play in traffic more often

[Egzekutor]

I dont see this being a problem unless you own about 50 games and all of them have those 3gb parts installed.. But ofcourse you dont play all the games in 1 day, do you ??? You must have some games that you have finished in 100%, delete the old mandatory install and allow space for a newer game. What the fuk is the problem with people these days ???

Fuking dikheads always trying to find a hole in the PS3. But sry motherfukers there isnt even 1, fuking p.ussies.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

You dont even need to delete old game saves and files.
For less then 120$ you can get a 320GB HDD.Problem solved.

Besides..i dont mind a 5 minutes install to cut loading times.And eliminate pop ins and slow downs.

[TheMART]

50 games?

If you own a 40GB PS3 with those 5GB game installs you are running out of space with 6 games if you also have some demo's and music/video on the HDD.

So you're saying... You have to fork out another 120 bucks to use the PS3.

actually

400 Euro or Dollar PS3

+

120 Euro/Dollar

520 Euro or Dollar to pay in reality. That sucks

[zo6_lover27]

Most games don't have installs or have optional installs, and most installs are 1GB or less.

I can get a 320GB HDD from New Egg for $100
I could also get an external 500GB for $100

Both would last an insanely long time.

And I know this was stated in the gamer zone but

PS3 installs are mostly a problem for people who don't own a ps3.

EDIT

$300 console
+
$100 wifi
+
$20 charge kit(an additional $12 per controller)
+
$50/yr online
=
$470
in other words $70 more than a ps3 80GB, which will last a long time.

[pixelsword]

...Using the 40GB and then trying to say that "sucks" when it's no problem, because they could easily remove data for *free* and install later if they wanted to. Or let me put it this way; if they got a launch 360 and three years of Gold XBL, they would've spent $150 by now.... without the benefit of having a hard drive.

Neither scenario sucks if you want it, although both would suck if you don't have the cash.

[RedVsBlue]

The 360 installs are optional

[Cajun Chicken]

Indeed, should solve the pop-up problem in GTAIV and massive load times in Crackdown.

[blackboyunltd]

the author speaks the truth here

[Fade_Walker]

According to my 20GB PS3 the installs are already a problem.

[vdesai]

Oh yea the mandatory installs take up 12GB. In case you didn't notice you are wrong.

[heyheyhey]

not at all

even if you don't upgrade you HDD for a cheap price... you can still uninstall games when your finished with them

it's not a problem in the slightest

[TheMART]

YES its a problem especially with those sold 40GB PS3's

With about 6 games (read above) you're allready maxed out.

And yes I hate it when I need to uninstall some and then when I want to play need to reinstall again for 25 minutes long

COME ON THATS PC GAMING

No console gaming anymore. Forced installs suck.

[bunbun777]

I have a 40g PS3 and I am not worried in the least bit- Oh no for the price of a game I could upgrade! I better just keep buying games and then not play them because I don't have room because I'm too ineffectual to delete anything! Oh noes! The end of console gaming! My life is over! I could barely afford the PS3 and I'm poor and I like to complain!

One day most developers will actually know what they are doing and installs won't even be an issue in the least bit- right now they are typically a crutch for developers that don't know or care or have enough time to relearn and master the PS3's architecture. One day. Probably the day after the world sees God of War and wakes the fudge up.

[Oner]

This just proves who speaks about $h!t they have absolutely no clue about...I just posted this yesterday:

"Hhmm that's weird since I have had a 20 gig since launch day and all my games don't give me an issue when I need to play them...

RR7 (No install needed as it is optional)
RFoM
COD4
MGS4
GTA4
GT5P
MS
EOJ
Uncharted (No install anyway)
Pain
Super Puzzle Fighter HD
Championship Sprint
Calling All Cars
Super Star Dust HD
Qore episodes
Videos....\
Music......> these 3 aren't even needed on my PS3 as I have 2 media shares available
Pictures../
Etc. Etc. Etc.

I can go on but either way it's not a big deal to shift game installs around when I want to play especially when I don't play some older titles like RR7 & RFoM or MS or do so very RARELY. Plus I still use my 20 gig since I got my 80gb PS3 prize a few weeks ago, people try to make something big out of something they have absolutely no idea about. I can speak this with truth as I have done it since launch day...I always find it funny how can someone who doesn't own something actually speak "facts" about it?"

Edit: AHAHAHA I got a disagree on FACTUAL real world experience! Aaww I hurt someones feelings....it's simply amazing how many uninformed immature children are out there.

[thehitman]

It could but I really doubt it. There should be no games that use install times unless they are ports next year or unless they are really huge games like MGS4. As devs learn more and more tricks with the ps3 we will see less and less installs.

[Aclay]

How the Hell can PS3 game installs become a problem? Anyone with a PS3 can upgrade their hard drive without voiding the warranty and the 2.5" SATA Hard drives are pretty cheap. It's not like PS3 owners have to pay outrageous prices for Hard drives like anyone with a 360.

If it was more costly to upgrade the PS3's hard drive, then yes, the installations could become a problem, but since you can go out and get a hard drive for your PS3 for cheap, it's not a problem.

A 5GB installation is nothing whenever you could put a 500GB hard drive in the PS3.

[jmiscavish]

Except I shouldn't have to upgrade my CONSOLE so I can play more than 5 games at a time.

That's why I bought a console.

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

Mandatory Installs... The only mandatory install that I have ever had was on warhawk, and it took about 2 minutes.

Mandatory installs most likely will never be a problem.

Capacity wise, maybe, but that's why Flash drives, and Memory sticks are compatible.

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

Edit:

Damnit I hate when this happens...

[air1]

i dont think the sony fanatics would have a problem with it. to them the ps3 has no problems only the 360 has problems. everything is peachy for the sony camp
............................. ......................
EDIT @ below..

its for a sony product as long as it sais sony on it they will buy any add on for it but will cry about the 360

[Rampant]

People complain about 360 users "having" to buy a wifi addon. What about ps3 users that "have" to buy a new hard drive to install all their games?

[TrooGamer]

wifi, play n charge kit, Live(worth it tho), stupidly high priced hard drives

All those are choices just like upgrading the PS3 hard drive.

[TheMART]

Wrong.

You are not forced to buy WiFi. Cable is more stable for online gaming

You are not forced for play&charge. You can use chargable batteries. When the PS3 controllers accu dies you can't change it but need to fork out 60 bucks for a new controller. Replacing rechargable batteries costs nothing

All you are mentioning isn't anything like the PS3 HDD. Especially not for those with a 40GB PS3. Those are facked

[zo6_lover27]

Even though your not forced to buy play and charge, a 360 controller and ps3 controllers(DS3) cost EXACTLY the same, before you buy the charge kit for the 360

[Shane Kim]

The Fart, you don't have to buy a HDD on your PS3 either. How do you know that people with 40GB are facked? You don't even own one so please, spare us the preaching.

[pixelsword]

...what is worse?

[Kratos3452]

Installs aren't a problem at all,they make the game better by giving it quicker loading times and besides, installs only happen once and you never have to do it again.

[yojoe26]

why people freak out over these little fifteen minute installs. If people can't wait for ten or fifteen minutes to play their little game then they really have a problem. It's not that big of a deal.

@ Aaaaarrgghh...By the way beautifully said man. I wish I had said it as well as you....here's a bubble or two

[htownplaya]

author is a fanboy, ps3 installs dont take too long......long as they under 10 mins

[agentace]

..5gb what lazy ass dev ported that, thats like the whole game not a install, more devs need to learn from naughty dog

[FantasyStar]

I talked about this in the 360-Install article, but I'll copy and paste it here as well.

"Up to this date, I haven't seen many PS3 games that require mandatory HDD Installs actually benefit by having less load times. Even MGS4 crumbles under the weight of load times, especially install times.

Sony has got to release some tools to make load times less. Take a ****ing page from the devs at Naughty Dog FFS! Just for my personal protest, I never buy "new" games that require mandatory load times (unless it's MGS4) because I don't approve of their methods. The same will go for R2 if they try the same thing. The only conceivable way I'll ever budge on this declaration is if there's physical evidence that the HDD installs actually go towards decreasing load-times, and I don't mean 2-5 seconds shaved off, I mean 5-10 seconds shaved off. I want my games to load within 2-3 seconds. If Uncharted can do it, I don't see why other games can't. Of course I'm realistic about my demands, so I'll tolerate 5 seconds at most. Anything more than 5 and I'm buying it pre-owned.

Developers use mandatory installs to meet the bare-minimum of loading times. I hardly see anything worthwhile in mandatory installs other than the obvious fact I have 5 less GBs. Like I said earlier, if you don't approve of lazy devs wasting GBs away on your PS3, don't buy your games new, buy them used. Nothing says FU more than lack of profits.

PS3 games need to be more like Uncharted, virtually ZERO loading screens and seamless transitions, all without eating up pointless GBs. Hell even if Uncharted used a mandatory HDD Install, it wouldn't bother me because unlike 90% of games (even MGS4), I actually see benefits out of the GBs being used up on my HDD towards a better gaming experience.

I have no problem with PCs installing, but when people would try to use the PC to defend the PS3 installs, I draw the line right there. PCs have been requiring installs since the inception of PC gaming. I don't argue with history and you shouldn't either. If you want to know, MGS2: Substance, and GeoW loads probably 5x faster on my PC than the consoles would anytime. But I guess that's the beauty of having developers that put more effort into reducing load times and having a gaming-quality PC.

If the 360 all had HDDs, you wouldn't see as many mandatory HDD installs because the 360 DVD Drive is significantly faster than the PS3 BR Drive. You can use facts all you want, but the games itself speak louder than anything you'll find on Wikipedia. Just look at every single multiplatform game and then look at how many times the PS3 version requires an HDD Install with little to zero improvements in load times. And then there's MGS4. I seriously doubt Kojima would cut corners on his game just for a 1-3 minute break between gametime.

All devs that force Mandatory HDD installs on the PS3 with no noticeable improvement for load times are considered "lazy" in my book(even Kojima). I know it's black-and-white reasoning, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And the root of it all is blaming both Sony and the devs equally. Sony should've released the PS3 with a 4x BR Drive and devs should start boning up on their coding skills for the disc itself. If Naughty Dog can do it, I don't see why others can't. When it truly comes to gaming, I care more about my money's worth than the developer's personal struggles. If I approve of their methods, I'll buy their games "new". Otherwise its Ebay and Craigslist for me. (**** Gamestop)"

People only talk about the obvious("Just delete what you don't need blur burg.....") until they're the ones being called out. If people here are fine with upgrading their PS3 HDDs and paying more, then hell, give me some money so I don't have to spend $100 on something developers should've been able to avoid. The only time I'll ever buy a bigger HDD for my PS3 is when I want to put more music, photos and videos on it. Not just so I can cover up for developer's mistakes and lack of skill.

I paid for my PS3 to play Console games, not PC Games. If I wanted to play PC games, I'll play on a PC. And even then, PC games load a ****load faster than most PS3 games out there(except Uncharted, of course). I know this ia a long rant, but I STRONGLY feel that Mandatory Installs that serve little purpose towards improving the load times beyond what I've see last gen is like a step backwards for gaming. How am I suppose to embrace Blu-Ray's massive storage space with endless hours of gaming content if I have to wait 20 min everytime for a portion of that game to be installed. Hypocrisy I tells you.

Even Bestheda has commented that it is forced to used the BR's storage to copy duplicate files across the disc to cut down on loading times. A waste of Blu-Ray's potential and Sony has to step up on this issue. As of now, Blu-Ray is useless with constant Mandatory HDD Installs and lack of game content due to the constricting read-speed of the 2x BR Drive and lazy developers not trying hard enough. There's the good saying. "You can always try harder"

[jmiscavish]

Yup, that's pretty much what I wanted to say.

I've only got 40gbs of space to work with here. I don't want to have to delete and reinstall for 10-15 minutes everytime I want to change games.

A one time install isn't that big of an issue, but if I want to play more than 5-6 games at a time that all happen to have mandatory installs (bioshock, dmc4, ut3, mgs4, gta4...) then I literally have to delete and reinstall everytime I want to play the one game that didn't make the list.

That's crazy annoying and entirely foolish.

[ogwilson]

And don't say anything about PCs need games to be installed too. Serious PC gamers build their PCs with 500 gigs of hd space or more. The most you can get out of a PS3 out of the box is 80, which is alot considering Sony also encourages you to download PSN Store content, watch movies and listen to music, as well as all the pointless crap they want you to throw onto your console (Home, LWP, F@H, etc)

[air1]

you wont have much of a choice with installs at 5gb. but hey if you like to delete and then re install good for you..
............................. ............................... ...
edit

i dont care. in short time i will have a CHOICE to install it or NOT. thats the choice i like..

[TrooGamer]

Only people that care are 360 fanboys..funny how all developers are praising Sony for having the hard drive as mandatory.

People just need to get over it...they will become less n less over time.

[mfwahwah]

This article felt very poorly written.

[FantasyStar]

Author has a good point. 360 20GB owners have not had a problem with space ever since 2005, yet PS3 owners are pressed for a bigger HDD because of useless mandatory installs. And the continuing growing trend of HDD installs only spells doom for Sony's 10 year cycle.

Microsoft forced developers to think on their feet because of the Arcade model. Sony should be whipping and brutally beating developers until they turn up a worthy product for PS3.

[BlackTar187]

Loads of BS spewing please keep it tight I have 2 360's both of which have far exceeded 20GB and having to delete a bunch of stuff for it to fill up again. I see this as not a problem at all but since you want to lie about it it pisses me off.

All you guys install are good. Only those who's first and only systems were ps2 and xbox have problems with them any buddy who is a battle tested gamer knows you guys are just complaining to complain. Get over it and stop making stuff up to fortify your side of the fence it looks pathetic. Im excited for 360 installs and will be doing it for here on out on all systems given the option. Anyone who doesn't needs to see a shrink or a doctor for ADHD and maybe take some sedatives or read a magazine you know anything if this generation cant wait 5-15 extra mins to play a game your a sad individual and maybe need to take course on patience since it is a virtue and always bring better things to those that wait on it.

[FantasyStar]

What're you talking about? My first paragraph was a summary of what the author said. Granted, it's my interpretation of it, but still. -If you wanna hate, hate the author, I'm just restating what he said.

But my 2nd paragraph is my own statement about the situation. Sony has got to check developers on their products. Sony should drop the hammer on any developer whose' load times exceed 3 seconds.

[mfwahwah]

Oh, I didn't mean the content of the article or substance of the arguments, but rather the style in which it was written.

[Percy]

On my pc ive installed many games and i dont see a reason to complain why would that be any diffrent on a console. Yeah you cant pop it in and play but if people are that mad they have nothing to do during those ten minutes than they need to put the controller down and get a life.

[air1]

percy, i think the problem comes in with the SPACE your average pc comes with a 500gb hdd your average ps3 is 40 gb hdd see the problem?

bubbles please?

[bunbun777]

Ugh there's nothing worse than me who knows so little getting frustrated by others who know so little. 5 gig install is not ludicrous but I think it is a bit of a black eye if what I hear about the new Bioshock is true, in that the install is a crutch for portability, not so much like MGS with it's semi crazy install per stage- but once you play the stages you start to forget having to wait (it's beautiful)

Long story short- So few gamers seem to appreciate the distinct differences between 360 and ps3 with respects to developing. Installs are only a problem if you want to play next-gen looking games without fully understanding what is required to stream and process that data.

Imagine DVORAK vs QWERTY- Yes DVORAK is much slower if you only know how to type with QWERTY, but once you learn DVORAK then you realize there is no going back!

pwned to no1 in particular.

[peedie16]

you guys do know you can DELETE stuff you don't need and you can always download game saves all over again DUH!!!!!!!!

[Droid]

poor droids

poor droids.

poor droids. what a shame. wouldn't be such a big deal if the installs actually did something other than take-up harddrive space in a failed attempt at making PS3 ports loads as fast as the much superior 360 games. poor droids

poor droids

[zo6_lover27]

Your either trying to copy the Poor Xbots guy or you ARE the Poor Xbots guy.

I'm willing to bet the latter option since Poor Xbots was long gone before this idiot showed up.

[bunbun777]

The fact that the installs are being used as a crutch for developers. But it does not bother me in the least these comments- it's like would you rather do more than everyone else or just a few things better? Surprise! I said it- the 360 plays games better in that it is more old fashioned... how hard is it to imagine a piece of technology that is superior, but is harder to implement due to the existing infrastructure....sorry i already used my dvorak vs. qwerty comparison....

[dan88123]

Wow no one I mean no one I know no has a problem with this. Do something for half an hour while it's installing-its that hard. and Mart dont tell PS3 users that this is a problem when you dont own a PS3. People ussually play a game at a time too. So delete the install when your done. No problem.

[Crazywhitie]

I think the Install would be Great if you diddn't have to put in the disc every time... then yes,, but since you have to put in the disc, Installs shouldn't happen... Please remember these are Consoles not PC.. Installs on PC are because of unlimited Hard space.. not everyone wants to pay more to upgrade there console that should play the games from disc. the biggest difference from console and PC..

[TrooGamer]

Majority of people dont care as its the quality of the game that matters. Obviously 1st party developers have figured it out so these wont become the norm 10 years down the line.

Blah blah blah..its boring now!!!

Enjoy whatever console you have

[No FanS Land]

Developpers have a role to play in this, because resolution can influence space storage, hence, loadong times. there's also the framerate: if the data doesn't stream (almost) flawlessly, there can be framedrops. also thereis that notion of resolution versus framerate. if developpers don't get it right, it can lead to a game that takes, let's say, 5gb being the currency,+ framerate lags thanks to a bad stream, so to patch this they drop the resolution in hope to get better framerate and loadong times (oops! I mentionned Haze through those lines: 1024x576, 5gb , sloppy framerate=flawed game)

[ceedubya9]

The good thing is that its easy to upgrade the HDD for the PS3. Because of this, I only see it as a problem for those that don't want to buy another one once the original they have fills up.

Even still, you can always delete the game data once you're done playing the game for a while. The minor annoyance comes from putting it back on once you want to play it again. But unless you play like a whole lot of games at once that requires installs, then I doubt it will be a problem.

[-Maverick-]

Seriously PS3 is such a crap console.

Get a Xbox 360. It's better at everything, except playing a Blu Ray movie. PS3 really does suck hard.

[bunbun777]

Your comment sir is the most pale shade of putrescent poo.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I have a 360.Know where it is?

On the floor surrounded by junk,collecting dust.While my PS3 sits high and mighty next to my 42Inch Sony Bravia tv.

Just because you like 360 doesn't mean everyone does.I hate it.
I hate everything about it from the retarded "blade" system to the big ugly controller.Hell,even the console itself looks horrible.

I'll stick with my PS3.

[juuken]

Oh yes, the 360 is good at everything.
It sets people's home on fire.
Seriously, shut the f*ck up.

[Nitrowolf2]

i can see it being a problem for those who cant get there HDD upgraded, but other wise no it wont. you can always go back and delete the installation as well. i still need to upgrage my HDD

[cheapndirty]

So if I have to keep buying bigger and bigger cheaper sata harddrives what am I really paying for the ps3 experience? They need to take game installs off and make it optional.

[NipGrip]

This Bioshock install is such a.. shock? There's been plenty of games that install stuff. Not to mention hard drives are very cheap and easy to install. Get with the program and get a 320 gig HD already and enjoy the premium experience that the install brings to the PS3.

[BUKKAKALYPSE]

"It’s all fine and dandy that Playstation 3 allows you to use all kinds of external hard disk drives and to even replace the Playstation 3’s hard drive, but the point is that people shouldn’t have to do this. You have people who bought 20 gigabyte Xbox 360’s years ago and they still have no problem with space to this day. But if the install trend continues on Playstation 3, then I can tell you as a Playstation owner that I will not be happy"

can't really disagree with this

[paracardium]

Not a problem here..I upgraded my HD due to the amount of psn games that are good coming out. 250 gigs is enough for awile for me.

[pp]

I'm glad i don't own a poo station 3

[ThatCanadianGuy]

-bubble

[BLuKhaos]

I'm glad you don't own one either. -1 Bubble

[silverchode]

cheap hds solve the problem for the ps3. unlike the 360 where changing your hd nulls warranty.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

use a spare HDD so that you can keep your warranty, OR use the swaped HDD's manufacture warranty. i swaped my already and i'm still under a warranty.

your just finding ways to avoid the option.

[silverchode]

most people dont know the smart way.

[dan88123]

Well said Canadian Guy

[jack who]

no problem for smart ppl only the dumb ones who dont no how to upgrade their hdd them sellf

[divideby0]

those who diss installs are just silly....plain and simple....PC has been doing it for years, PS3 has a big enough disk...now since the 360 finally has some models with a big disk, it will also allow installs..
those dissing installs now are eating crow

[GUNS N SWORDS]

well from what i see is that you can get Bioshock and a arcade or a 60 gig model for $240/$340, and you can play bioshock out of the box and it won't need a hdd.

or

you can get a 80 gig ps3 with the exact same game for $560, wait for the game to finish installing and then finally play it.

[BLuKhaos]

big chance of RROD<install

[ForROME]

My fav part was

"360 users with 20GB hard drive still do not have space problems to this day"

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ight, and I play short stop for the Yankees, who is he kidding

[jmiscavish]

I've had my 20gb 360 for about 3 years and I've never ran out of space, nor even came close to it.

The only thing taking up any real room is DLC from rockband.

If I had to delete another game install and save just to play rockband or new DLC because something else required an install, then, yeah, it would be very annoying and flawed.

[PSWe60]

so I have to wait another 5 or 10 minutes.
time to go to the crapper so that I won't be bothered while playing my shinny brand new game.

[adfa89]

that I have the choice to change my hard drive cheaply if needed. Though I do agree that I don't think developers need to actually have installs and It may turn in to a problem, especially as PSN content is really in it's stride.

[DJ]

In addition to significantly decreasing load times if properly used. The installs are becoming an issue for me since I only have 16GB left on my hard drive. But I can easily grab a 250GB hard drive off of Newegg.com for $130.

http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

There's cheaper options in the $80~90 range, but this is the best one in terms of reliability and speed. I'll probably buy this one in a month or so.

[J@D]

Like 1000 times this kind of article pop-up and get approved around here. geeezzz its starting to get my nerves and get VERY ANNOY o.O.

Anyway, the solution is quite easy and very cheap. Buy and install a bigger HHD I mean Sony give u the option to buy up any HHD and get install it on ur PS3 easily... why not take that choice?. I know some people are gonna said I'm poor and blah blah blah and yada yada but I'm not rich after all and i can find easily buy an HHD for my PS3 with some extra sacrifice like save up on junk food or something like that and to acquire things on life... humans need to sacrifice things to acquire another. NO PAIN NOT GAIN isn't ^__^

[jmiscavish]

OR

I shouldn't have to go around upgrading my CONSOLE to play CONSOLE games.

WTF would I have to spend another $130 just to play the games off the disc?

I already spent $400 on the console, that's entirely absurd that people are telling me to just shell out more money to upgrade a console.

If I wanted to go around constantly upgrading stuff, I would be PC gaming...

[J@D]

^ ur arguments makes not sense to me. If u want to play "VIDEO CONSOLES" just delete old game data and install the new data from the new game... if u want to play ur old game install the game data and don't be lazy that's ur solution for ur issues if u don't want to spend extra cash on upgrade ur console. Humans beings lose more times wait on line for going to the bank and pay they bills and stuff like that why not wait 10 minutes for a video game data. geeezzz people like u are hopeless and got not life apparently I can easily leave the data installing on my PS3 and meanwhile I can make a call to my friends or check my University notes as a example... so don't come to me with such arguments cuz I can easily beat it without any effort.

[jmiscavish]

Right, so if I have more than 4-5 games that i want to play at a time, whenever I want to switch, I have to wait while the old game deletes and the new one installs? Every time?

You're right, that is a solution to my problem. An entirely unnecessary and annoying solution.

I've got a full-time job, kids, a wife, bills, and lots of other things that require my time. If I only have half an hour a day to game, I don't want it taken up with installs.

It's not the end of the world, but it is pretty asinine.

[J@D]

^ Welcome to the real world pal. my suggestion saved up and buy a bigger HHD saving from junk food or beers or whatever takes daily on 2 or 3 weeks u can afford a new HHD(Especially those that cost like 65 dollars and take that "issues" away... anyway its ur life its ur issues.

I can advice u but the last choice its on u hands after all.

[arika]

who cares as long as it makes the game run faster and smoother, heck then i'm all for it.. i'll just prepare me a ten inch thick, 12 inch long sandwich and buy me a 12 can beer then it's all good...

if you don't have enough space on your hdd then upgrade for a small cost and don't b***ch around saying its it's too hard or expensive...

[ElementX]

360 will be having a problem with installs. I think that more and more new games will require a HDD. I read somewhere about a rumor from the Gamestop convention that says 60GB 360 HDDs will soon be priced at $99. Still too much, obviously, but it is much more affordable at that price.

[smurfie4]

i have a 250g hd so its not an issue to me.

[juuken]

...You install things on a PC.

How is installation on the PS3 any different?

It doesn't take that long...I mean, I wouldn't think that someone would be so impatient to play a game.

[jerethdagryphon]

bluray is slower i did the math on a privious thread here
ignore the cav stuff just use raw numbers and 12x dvd is faster by about 1/3

4x bluray however trumps it by about 50%
15 megabytes per second for dvd and 9 for bluray

thats not the issue

5 gig per install + saves call is 5.25 thats 3 games on a 20 gig 10 on a 60 13 on an 80 and 26 on a 160
(space reserved for bad sectors and other miscilanious data.)
only a 20 gig is really an issue
it takes seconds to clear data minites to upgrade the hdd..

instalsl are not a porblem i find 10 gig plus pc install more intrusive
which again assume a 250 gig hdd 10gig for vista 10 for other programs leaves 23 games at that level with no other files

delete what you dont need a pc game takes 10 minites to install on average 16x dvd transferiong 25mb x10x 6 1.2 gig a minite x about 8
you dont whine about that. so dont whine about it on consoles esecially as next xbox will have similar.
installs=the way of things to come.

as for popin on uncharted never seen any. lots of pirates though...and decendents....
still have to do crushing :(

[jerethdagryphon]

any decent mobile phone shop can replace the battery in a ps3 control its a standard lion like in a mobile phone and when it does run out you can still use the plug and run wired

[Rageanitus]

PC gaming has resorted to installs for the longest time and it has not caused any problems.... for all I know they could still be selling games in CD's.

For the ps3 mandatory installs are still very premature since they have 25 gb single layer disks... but it is totally welcome IMO just to optimize load times of textures... Plus with the mandatory hd on all ps3's it should not be a big issue at all.

On the flip side look at the xbox.... the real question is will having no HD matter in the long run for the xbox.... at this point its hard to say we might see the xbox 3 before mandatory installs are big on consoles.

YES installs are annoying to SOME, but the sacrifice for an install reduces strain on those fragile optical drives and less over head of loading textures... so why NOT.

Take for example diablo 1/2... lots of data were read from the optical drive,.... you would not believe how many diablo players broke their optical drives just playing the game.

Hell even playing motorstorm with pretty noticible long load times worries me... to bad they didn't make a mandatory install for most games.

[Gitaroo]

kind of sad that most third party developers just take the short cut or cut corners with the HDD installation. Most of them dont even have a big difference compare to the 360 version of the same game. HDD are meant to be used like Uncharted, only for temporary cache, like what many develoeprs did with Xbox1. Instead of spending more time to optimzed the game for the blu ray disc they just use the HDD for installation because Sony allow them unlike on 360 or xbox1 which werent even an option. Some developers already proof how quick the games can load without installation like Burnout Paradise etc. Developers has to go through a learning process on the 360 too, heres proof

http://kotaku.com/5047825/o...

but with on PS3 they just skip pass it and try to get their games out asap. That way they will probably never learn how to optimize games for BD rom.

[SolidWolf]

You know for me, I don't see it as a problem. I mean I got two systems to work with so if I had to install something I'll just go ahead and play my 360 for a bit or do something while I wait. I wouldnt mind like waiting for 5 to 10 min intalls but if we talkin' 15 on up, uh-huh i don't wanna do it, well not all the time besides they say waiting just heightens your excitement you know gets you really hyped to play the game. Atleast that's how it was for me when I played MGS4.

[K4rm4]

Okay before I start, I will apologize first since I didn't really took the time to read on all or some of the comments posted on this article, and if what I may write for others to read may cause any offense to the hardcore critic or so-called I know how to talk sh$t, but I don't create sh%t, but with all do respect...an opinion after all is just an opinion.

Now that's outta the way, HDD issue...go to http://www.weaknees.com/ps3...

Check out the 320GB deal. WOW!!!

As for what I have to say...what's the big deal? Another day, with another old tone to fiddle with. All of us who grew-up from the Atari/Nintendo age knowing what we were fiddling with. As time past with the monstrous growth in technology, we all grew-up ever more with much bigger expectations on the world of gaming. Well it's happen, but the flare and excitement dead. Now articles like this and many many others scorch cover-to-cover, site-after-site like a plague of locusts feeding on every and anyone's pee-brain hope to flicker a reign of terror at the hearts of the newborn or true hardcore gamer. Look, basically what I'm shelling out is this...THE GAMING INDUSTRY IS NEVER GONNA CHANGE!!! There will always be a console not meeting our demand...no wait the demand to a so-called anything you can do I can do better, but oh no I'm just the other kind of pompous ASS who talks the talk and that's it (people like that make me stroke another for porn). Live and learn. History repeats itself an infinite more times than we can push aside because crap like this seems to be a numero uno problem of today's gaming youth. Esh...GIVE IT A REST ALREADY!!! Oh we can't seem to function! Sorry I need a freakin' chill pill. Sorry, sorry...

Ask yourself, is it ever gonna be perfect?

[Moac]

Lets say a game is 40GB in Bluray. How much GB would I need to install on harddrive? 40?

thanks

[Iceberg032]

they gave you the option on buyin a 20gb, 40gb,60gb,80gb and now the 160gb model,it's on you how much downloading are you going to be doing and how much picts, music and movies you going to put on your PS3. They aslo built the PS3 to be compatiable with any laptop hard drive that is 2.5 in size so you can upgrade your PS3 hard drive to 500gb if you wanted to!!!

[Wotbot]

installs remind me of the old days when we used to load games by cassette.

Who wold have thought the most powerful console this gen would require installs. Go figure?

MGS4 had too many installs for my liking. I loved the game, but there must have been 6 installs by the end of the game.

I have both consoles and the 360 does updating and downloading way faster then the ps3. When you download or update anything on the PS3, you are then required to install it, and wait even longer, no thanks.

The PS3 has some super key components, but something went wrong on the internal design of the machine. Otherwise we wouldn't need these installs.