The pressure on No Man’s Sky to be “fun” is unfair

Joe from GamersFTW writes: Fun is a hard thing to quantify these days; firstly, because it’s so subjective and peoples’ idea of fun varies in many different ways; secondly, there’s no illicit way for people to have fun. If there was one universal way to have fun, fun would ironically be rather boring.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

There will always be people who can't accept a game for what it is. You know the type:

Buy a first person shooter then complain about it not having RPG elements

Buy a survival horror game and then complain about it not having any weapons

Buy a turn based RPG then complain about it not being like Dark Souls

These are examples of the complaints from that very special group of gamers that have infected this very enjoyable form of entertainment, THE WHINY MINORITY.

They refuse to accept a game for what it actually is.

[alexgibson]

But No Man's Sky doesn't fit conventional genres. It's premise seems to be a huge expansive exploration game with multiple different facets. So I think people have every right to question it's substance.. especially since Hello Games have been fairly vague on what the game is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super excited about No Man's Sky though..

[ArchangelMike]

"...since Hello Games have been fairly vague on what the game is."

You know that this statement is blatanlty not true.

Hello Games have made it very clear what this game is. They have said over and over again in countless interviews what you do in this game, and what the goal of the game is.

At this point, anyone who is still saying - "I don't know what you do in this game," is either delibrately uninformed or just ignoring the facts for the sake of fanboy arguments.

If you still don't know what the game is and what you have to do - it is not because of Hello Games, it is because you haven't been botherd to read the information they have given.

[k2d]

I don't expect it to be like Minecraft, but Mojang kinda laid the groundwork for the open world exploration genre. I hope they've taken some notes.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

@alexgibson

It's a massive space exploration game. It's not an unusual genre, it's just ignored by developers. For what reason, I do not know.

[garrettbobbyferguson]

It's a space sim. How is that not a conventional genre? The biggest problem is that Hello Games STILL HAVE NOT showed us a lot of the content they're promising. Trading? Nope. Proper dog fighting? nope. NPC interaction was only shown through a leak. A LEAK. People should rightly be hard on the game.

[Pongwater]

"I think people have every right to question it's substance"

Substance and fun aren't the same things. People have a right to wonder what they'll be doing in the game, though as someone who keeps up with news on the title I feel Hello Games has been pretty clear on that subject, but each person has to decide for themselves whether the game is enjoyable.

The "pressure to be fun" is unfair because no game is for everyone. Many love CoD for what it is and wouldn't want it to change very much, but I recently played one of the newer CoDs with my nephew and it only reminded me why I don't like that series. I find other shooters to be much more fun, though CoD consistently outsells them, so whose "pressure to be fun" should I acknowledge as correct?

@garrett - "People should rightly be hard on the game."

Hello Games has said repeatedly the main point of the game is discovery and they don't want to say or show too much. I don't see why that's a problem. "I'll wait and see" is reasonable. "This game is going to suck" isn't. On N4G we see more of the latter than the former. Guys like Foxtrot will sometimes start whining a good six months or more before a game releases.

[ArchangelMike]

Too right. It not that hard for people to unsderstand that "fun" is subjective - and everyone is free to have fun with whaterver game suited their tasted. But some gamers seem to think that it is their perogative to bad mouth a game that others find fun.

I think the console wars and exclusivity deals have introduced a bias to gaming that is really toxic, and unfortunately, No Man's Sky has fallen victim to it. So you will find people who have no intention of buying the game, and who admit that it is not their type of game, completely pulling the game apart on forums. Why?

[Kal-V3]

I don't think I've ever agreed with anything more in my entire adult life than what you just said right there! Holy crap!

[asadachi]

There's also the other side, those who are not getting this on their preferred console, who will try to be negative with every comment or rating. Not because the game isn't any good, it's just because they want Sony to fail no matter what. It's childish, but it's how this console war has turned.

[freshslicepizza]

@IGiveHugs2NakedWomen

there is a difference between complaints just for the sake of complaining and valid complaints. learn the difference.

there are lots of people hyped for the game and they have no played it. that's fine. there are also some who question whether it's going to be good and/or fun and they haven't played it. so why is that not acceptable?

people need to learn there are two sides and if you don't like the other opinion then ignore it instead of trying to smother it up because you don't agree with it.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

I accept that people will complain about things like pacing, controls, bugs, glitches, load times, and perhaps even the price. But when there are videos of No Man's Sky and videos of various developers who have worked on the game posted on Youtube clearly stating what this game contains, Space Exploration, (ala Star Trek) there is absolutely no reason for someone to buy the game and then complain about it not having multiplayer or co-op.

-_-

[_-EDMIX-_]

LMFAO! Agreed. They be like "WOW No Man Sky doesn't even have flight sim, RTS or RPG and or MOBA FEATURES BRO".

I've even read folks saying things like The Division has a forced online and they can't play it offline as a single player only game....

Soooo lets just ignore on the very first day the game announced it was as a "online", open world, RPG.

I don't get it. Basically they don't want it for what its intended genre is, they want it to be something they personally want it to be. Its strange, makes no sense and many seem cry, tear up and complain about such things even though gaming is a choice and they've been given transparency...some times YEARS in advance of what the game actually was.

Might be the slowest, saddest, simplest beings on this site. Legit...

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

You get it. Some people don't because they're thick in the head and believe that the world revolves around them and should cater to just them. And that's all it is...

Spoiled rotten.

[freshslicepizza]

@IGiveHugs2NakedWomen
"I accept that people will complain about things like pacing, controls, bugs, glitches, load times, and perhaps even the price. But when there are videos of No Man's Sky and videos of various developers who have worked on the game posted on Youtube clearly stating what this game contains, Space Exploration, (ala Star Trek) there is absolutely no reason for someone to buy the game and then complain about it not having multiplayer or co-op. "

this isn't about co-op or multiplayer and that is easy enough to find out. we are talking about whether the game will be fun or not and it is also something i wonder myself. all i ever hear about this game is how large and vast it is and people still wonder what it is you do exactly. from how challenging it is, how engrossing the experience will be and all of that.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Fun, in this case, is purely subjective.

What may be fun to you may not be fun to ME.

I don't like online, multiplayer shooters, but if I were to buy such a game I would not expect it to have survival horror elements at all.

You may enjoy COD and hate games like Until Dawn. Just because YOU don't believe Until Dawn is fun doesn't mean that someone else will share your OPINION.

Let's see if he gets it.

-.-

[freshslicepizza]

@IGiveHugs2NakedWomen
"Fun, in this case, is purely subjective."

it is subjective so don't whine or get upset if some reviewers don't like it. if you end up enjoying it then that is all that matters. i just don't understand how someone can claim this game looks good and then at the same moment try and argue against those who may not think it looks good. each of you go in with your own expectations and yours is no better than theirs and the reviewers should give a reason why it scores good or why it scores badly because like you said, it's all subjective.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Who said anything about reviews? I merely pointed out the truth. Your idea of fun, may not be the same as mine, which isn't subjective. Some people just need to do a little research. If you have never played a space exploration game, search for some on google and youtube, watch them, play them, or whatever. If you don't like the genre, move on to something else, but don't act like everyone is going to agree with what you believe is fun. It's never going to happen.

[freshslicepizza]

@IGiveHugs2NakedWomen
"Who said anything about reviews? I merely pointed out the truth."

what truth, that you are already thinking this game is going to be great without play it?

"Your idea of fun, may not be the same as mine, which isn't subjective. Some people just need to do a little research. If you have never played a space exploration game, search for some on google and youtube, watch them, play them, or whatever. If you don't like the genre, move on to something else, but don't act like everyone is going to agree with what you believe is fun. It's never going to happen."

this isn't a versus b. i can enjoy some rpg's for example and not others. so settle down there and once again who cares what other people think if you are already going to enjoy the game no matter what?

[detroitmademe]

I'm intrigued by this game but I really just need to see some extended gameplay of it. Because I've seen a few videos about it having combat and rpg elements but I need to know how extensive these aspects are. I understand it isn't a run and gun type of game but I just need to know the scoop on this

[Cy]

Yeah, fun is subjective, but gamers aren't supposed to be objective about the games they play. Wanting a game to be fun--whatever that means to you--isn't unfair in the slightest. A game can be the most innovative, original thing in the world and still be boring.

[Goldby]

we as gamers need to be objective and subjective when it comes to games we play. if not, games like Unity in its broken launch state would be more apparant than it is. its a balancing act between subjective and objective.

i personally hate Destiny after i was burned at launch by them,thats being subjective. Destiny though, has some of the tightest shooter controls on the market. thats being objective.

[Timesplitter14]

There's no point in games that aren't fun. Fun is the only thing a game absolutely must be. So no, it's not unfair for people to expect NMS to be fun.

The author got his analysis backwards. His definition of "fun" doesn't make any sense. Not sure where he got this silly idea that fun means AAA. For me it's the other way around most of the time

[jb227]

The point is that "fun" is an absolutely relative term. Some people find fun in inventory micromanagement from rpg's, and that stuff bores me to tears. Some people find fun in mindless fps titles. Some find fun in puzzle games.

Every game released is "fun" to someone, even if you don't count yourself among that group. The only thing we have to go on is history & Hello Games Joe Danger was nothing if not "fun" so I think NMS is looking fine at this point.

[Timesplitter14]

Exactly, the point is that fun is a relative term, so why is he saying it's unfair for people to expect NMS to be fun?

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

At this point it is very unfair to say that No Man's Sky is not fun. Games aren't as fun watching them as when you play. You will never know how fun a game is until you are in control.

It is not fun to watch Telltale games. I feel sorry for those who thought watching lets plays of their games felt it was enough. Being able to make your own choices and feeling connected with the characters is where these games shine. You can't do that watching lets plays.

No man's Sky seems not different. Where is the fun watching others do what you could be doing yourself: naming planets, aliens, leaving your mark in the planet, and so on?

Besides, I've seen doghfights, first person shooting, explorations and NPCs with dialog choices. What more are you expecting?

The objective in this game is to find the center of the Universe. What you encounter in this quest is what is gonna be fun. How can people judge a game based on some short gameplay videos? You rather want everything spoiled to you lioe Ubi did with Watch Doge?

How about you wait and find out for yourself?

[_-EDMIX-_]

It actually really, really depends. Some games are about the concept of what you do, some are about how it actually feels. You can very much watch a game and be able to tell if you would like it if its concept isn't really about feel, but ideals.

Hard to really explain but some times the thing that is fun might be just the outcome of something vs how it physically feels.

Some games are kinda like that were you can tell if you would like them or not, ironically Telltales games are sorta that. I can tell if I might like one of their titles as the game's concept is what really caries it, not how it feels. How it feels is literally irrelevant to the actual fun aspect of the game.

The fun is the choices, watching the outcomes...that is something you can do watching it and figure out you might like it. I can't do that with God Of War, I can't do that with Shadow Of Mordor etc. Those are what I call "Feel" games in which the thing you are physically feeling and doing is what actually builds that "fun" feeling.

No Man Sky from what I've seen is very much about the idea and concept of the exploration and not really about how it physically feels. You can likely tell if you'll like No Man Sky simply by watching some of it as knowing that its main point is this universe where all planets are different, have different life etc, that isn't a concept or an ideal that is based on "feel" or anything physical that you would need to play to understand.

Some are easy to convey like that. No Man Sky from what I've seen, comes off as a title that you actually don't need to physically get how it plays or feels, to fully understand why someone would want to play that.

I agree with you though, this is something someone needs to play for themselves or watch footage of after release to see if they want it. I don't think the team needs to do much else considering the game's concept is more so about something that isn't really based on feel.

[MilkMan]

No, I dont think its unfair.
A game should be fun, that is the very definition of gaming. Not only addicting but fun.
Personally I dont like playing pure simulators.
I dont like racers, or aviator simulators.
I like fun, fast paced games.
Now I know the very nature of No Man's Sky will not allow for arcadey type gaming, but even the driest strategy game is still fun. Look at Master or Orion and Homeworld.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

And who says other type of games aren't fun? You would never know. You should get out of you comfort zone and try new stuff taht aren't just arcade

Many gamers of today take so much stuff for granted in modern gaming. There a lot more of variety in gaming design that a dead or old gamer would have loved to experience. No man Sky is a dream come true to me. I like the concept and i'm very excited to explore the universe. This is a game it was impossible to make in the past, and now it is possible and many are judging without knowing. Devs are being vague for a reason. Why not take some risk?

[Gazondaily]

Damn entitled gamers! Asking a game to be fun. Sheesh!

[Christopher]

I don't think it's so much 'fun' as everyone wants it to be 'their type of fun'. People want PvP, shooter mechanic focus, RPG elements, and so on. I think, for me at least, it boils down to everyone going 'why can't it do what this game does' when I'm sitting here going... go play that other game then.

Essentially, this game doesn't need to encompass every aspect of gamer desire, which many games try to do and end up muddying down so many elements of the game itself. Let it be its own thing, whether for better or for worse.

[G20WLY]

The thing is 'fun' is not just subjective, it's too generic a word for people to suggest the developers should aim for.

It's a bit like 'nice'; it's only a true appraisal of something for the person opining. It's impossible to achieve 'nice' or 'fun' as a objective to satisfy every possible taste. It's not so much unfair, as unrealistic.

For me, I don't always want fun from games. I want enjoyment, something compelling. I like to feel something. Sometimes I hanker for satisfaction from twitchy twin stick shooters. I just zone out and let my reflexes take over.

Other times I want something more cerebral. To test myself with competition, puzzles or strategy. Sometimes I like to feel scared, claustrophobic, intrigued, entertained by a well written story, I want to explore, build something, laugh, feel sad, reflective or shocked. I also like to chill and I think that's one thing NMS will bring for me.

Many of those things for me are not 'fun', but I still find them enjoyable experiences.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Wait, the pressure is "Unfair"? LOL...ALL games face that pressure. No Man's Sky is included because its a game. We play games because they are fun escapism... Sorry but it is entirely fair that there is expectations of fun for the game.

[Rookie_Monster]

I say totally fair as all games all supposed to be fun. If No Man's Sky isn't fun, then it is not a good game.

[one2thr]

What few before you have already said, fun is subjective.

Everyone isnt going to like what you like.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

And that is totally fine, but a games overall success will live or die with the majority of gamer's finding a game fun. So while fun is certainly subjective there is a need for a more universal feel of fun in any game or it will fall into a niche category status and loose that mass market appeal if only a certain kind of gamer will find it fun.

[one2thr]

What I will find "Fun", about No Mans Sky, simply based on what I have seen and heard so far from Sean Murray:

The scale alone in, No Mans Sky is huge, the biggest play area created so far in any game, 18 quintillion full sized planets with each planet having unique characteristics thanks to the universe being procedural generated. My type of fun

Once on said planet, I can literally go anywhere that my eyes/character can see, these planets seem boundary less, as stated if I see a mountain that I want to be on top of, I can go there, if I see a cave entrance I can go there and explore it, as said some cave systems can stretch for miles. As well as oceans, both shallow and deep. My type of fun

They stated(Hello Games/ mainly Sean Murray), that you/I can spend days or even weeks to months exploring just 1 single planet, I can only speculate the excitement of sitting or walking and watching the sun/star of my solar system rise and fall each day and night cycle, or watch other planets on the horizon as I snap tons of screen shots trying to get a perfect sci-fi-esque portfolio going. My type of fun.

On top of that I can name everything that I discovered first, this in my mind is a space race exploration challenge for gamers, and I want to be part of that, imagine coming across an Omicron Persei Solar System with creatures that look somewhat like Omicronians, or even as mentioned a binary star system. My type of Fun.

And just about every planet can be mined for valuable resources, well thats a subjective objective, seeing that not everyone would be mining for the same things to build/upgrade the same things. My type of fun.

Then there's space battles, imagine the level of panic would happen if your/my ship was at its last bit of health, and I have enough jumpdrive fuel to leave that solar system, and once I exit hyperspace I accidently ended up in another ongoing space battle, but this time around both fighting factions are my enemies. My type of fun.

Now we have to learn languages in order to communicate with the intelligent life forms within this game, so that we can either trade or be at peace with each other. Make sense, wouldnt want an entire universe of npc's to be hostile against me whenever they see me. My type of fun.

And there are space pirates. The stakes are increased when carrying precious cargo. My type of fun.

Then there's the knowing, that there are other players in this universe, some looking or avoiding other players, but to cross paths with someone would be a monumental moment for me, the odds of this happening are slim to none and some people may never cross paths with another player ever.My type of fun.

Then there is getting my/our way to the center of the universe, even though we're going to be spawned in at the very edge of this universe.

These reasons are all subjective, some may find them boring, some may be even more hyped, and with others it might just spark some interest.

Thats all from the little information Sean Murray has shared, mind you he said that what he shared is a very small fraction of what to do in his game.

PS. My phone is having some delayed typing issue. (Galaxy S4)

[Trez1234]

Dlacyq3g, u sound more like business man than a gamer. Demon souls didn't start wit mass market appeal and let's not forget how some were saying it wasn't fun.

There are a lot of examples out there from puzzle games to card games etc..
And saying any game " need" a more universal feel or fun is utter rubbish and what's wrong with the " niche status " ?

The day all devs will have that mentality and approach to their creation, games will lose that magic.

[Rimeskeem]

IMO there are 2 things a game strives to be. Either immersive and fun, or it specializes in one of the two. NMS looks like a very immersive games especially with VR in the picture. And usually immersion turns into some form of fun. But, who knows, I feel like if someone can't find something fun to do in a game with an entire universe they probably are looking very hard.

[Majister-Ludi]

Right. I am getting more and more weary of this game. Obviously your game has to be fun otherwise what the hell is the point. The only alternative to fun is simulation which is a teaching tool. As we get closer to launch I get more worried this game will lack real purpose.

[Liqu1d]

Most games do have to have to be fun, but fun is completely subjective. Just because you don't find something fun it doesn't mean others don't. I don't find 'walking simulators' fun but I don't need to comment on new 'walking simulators' saying "Will this be fun?" "What do you do?", I accept it's not for me and move on to things I like.

Clearly there are people interested in No Man's Sky because they think it looks fun, people who have a problem with that aren't real gamers. And before someone tries to tell me NMS is a walking simulator, no it isn't.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

So to your point, I do agree that all games are not for everyone. And I would also agree with your comment "Clearly there are people interested in No Man's Sky because they think it looks fun". That is all totally true.

I think as we are drawing closer to the game coming out many who early on thought the game looked fun are starting to question if in fact it is actually their kind of fun. There was such fervor and hype around this games announcement and its been thrust into a AAA level like status now with the $60 price tag that its being looked at more critically than it was early on.

[mopground]

its fair to be skeptical when all the videos are the same and show the same things.

[Trez1234]

Wow. U really hate the fact some people are looking forward to this game it seems. Nothing has changed, some are REALLY hype for it, some are not n it's been like since day one.
How can someone who thought this game would b fun suddenly have doubts? Did the reveal had explosions, heavy guns n now the game has changed?

Instead people that are interested are even more so now we know a bit of what to expect. No man sky won't b for everyone or it might suprise us like other games did in the past.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@Trez1234 if that's directed at me then you are very much mistaken. I think No Man's Sky is an ambitious game and I hope it delivers. I have no issue with anyone finding joy in their game of choice.

[detroitmademe]

I say Give us a beta or demo so we can figure out what the heck is going on here.

[Lon3wolf]

Fun is relative/subjective, one mans fun is another mans drudgery.

[Goldby]

one man's sky is another man's universe ;)

[Artemidorus]

It's my decision if something is fun for me no one else so calling it unfair is none of your business.

[Gaming4Life1981]

No mans sky looks like it might be a great game but I totally agree that when you watch video's for it, it does not look fun or that the people playing are having fun. To me that is a problem and it makes me think what we're the developers goals. If the goal was to make a great exploration type game then they succeeded but if all that accumulates to is a boring game that is not fun they failed.

They have yet to show people the excitement of the game and if the game is so vast with lots to do then why is so hard for them to show something to everyone that is. I will have this game day one and then I will judge it fully but the videos for this game has let me with feeling of not very fun.

So I agree with people asking if a game will be fun because at the end of the day that's what gaming is about. It's a thin line between not liking something and not having fun. For example, cod I don't like cod but when I play it I do have fun.

[eldingo]

Games don't always have to be fun they just need something within the games mechanics and gameplay that compells the player to keep playing it its why different genres of media exist i.e horror,action,puzzle cetera.

[Elwenil]

Well, the last stage of Spore was pretty fun and this game seems to be just an expansion on that idea, so maybe. But then it could get boring pretty quick if it's not done correctly or doesn't appeal to the individual player.

[GamerGT]

To me I get to be a space explore in the vast edges of space and am supposed survive exploring the world I start on and find a ship I can upgrade along with equipment to upgrade my multitool and suite. And hop planet to planet in search of new discoveries. That doesn't sound like fun to me. That sounds like work. Work that I can enjoy.

[Sunnykens]

So if a game isn't supposed to be fun what is it supposed to be?

[Dark-soul]

you know whats unfair? stupid price!!! thats what. it should cost 15$ or 20$ max.
Definitely pass.. even though i was looking forward to it before.