Was Rise of the Tomb Raider's Exclusivity a Mistake?

Persona 5 better be fine.

[DARKKENT]

HUUUGGEEEE

[Erik7357]

Heard donald trump when I read that

[DARKKENT]

I have to reiterate this..

Tomb raider has sold a million on a combined user base of nearly 100 million consoles with its price cut i may add.. An AAA title of great heritage.

Microsoft knows tomb raider flopped so does square.. Why you think it's PC date has been pushed forward or why Microsoft (especially aron Greenberg of questionable morales, the guy who knowingly lied about tomb raider being an outright xb1 exclusive) is trying so hard to sugar coat its sales? Why do you think they waited over SIX WEEKS to release some numbers? Its because first week sales and didn't chart and it took over six weeks for the AAA game (with a huge fanbase)to reach a million sales on a combined user base of 100million..

Yeh 1 million sounds alot! ... for a new ip or an indie, but when this 1 million is put into context, a game with a considerable multi million worldwide fanbase, tens of millions of sales worldwide, its main protagonist the pin up of umpteen teenage males fantasies from dolls, posters to films, 1 million or just over on two console's is downright embarrassing.. Even more so when you consider this wasn't launched in jan feb august but the BUSIEST shopping time worldwide which is the holiday period.. Christmas.

obviously Greenberg hasn't stated the ratio of sales so i know it wasn't 80/20 in xb1s favour or believe me that man would be gloating that figure. .. I feel more sorry for crystal dynamics.. I've clocked the game and it deserved a greater audience not squares greed.

[amiga-man]

1 million is pathetic, The budgets to develope these sort of games rival or even surpass the budgets for Film making, no developer could carry on building these sort of games with such poor sales.

It will never achieve the sales it should have done and massively damaged the franchise, it was an ill thought out deal that achieved very little.

[jony_dols]

I'm not a fanboy by any stretch, (PS4 owner who has owned 360s, Gamecubes, Dreamcasts & N64s alongside my Playstations).

But this vague timed exclusive decision has alienated a loyal Tomb Raider fan such as myself, I've stuck with the series through the thick & thin (*cough*cough* Angel of Darkness). I've bought every title on launch, yes, even the long forgotten (and underrated) TR Chronicles, but this faux pas, is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Its fans like me that propped up sales, as the series floundered and now I've been dicked over, by devs that seemingly don't give two sh1ts about the real fans. They only saw short-term $$ and now it's biting them in the ass...frankly I'm delighted.

I will buy Rise of the Tomb Raider...second hand, for 20 quid, sometime in 2017. Crystal Dynamics will never see a penny of my cash ever again.

[DARKKENT]

@jony

I agree with you apart from the devs fault.

This was purely square enix and their greed... Because tomb raider is such a huge franchise they thought they could take Microsoft's money, sell millions on xbox and then take money from ps4 owners a year later..

As you can see so far its been egg on their faces.. Its not sold well.. PC release pushed forward.. Im just waiting to see the ass licking they do nearer ps4s release trying to get ps4 owners on board... Will be hilarious

[CrazedFiend]

Instead of pushing the PC release date
forward, they should be using that extra year development time on the ps4 version to sugar coat it to the hilt. I fear that bringing the same exact version to the ps4 one year later is not going to bring them very many more sales.

[Bdub2000]

Tombraider: sales - hottest buzzword for clicks so far 2016.

PS4 fan: it hasn't hit a million sales!

Microsoft: yes it has, and it's been a successful launch

PS4 fan: Well it didn't hit those sales fast enough in our opinion (but stated as fact) and it's not successful because REASONS.

Microsoft: (counting money) Whatever.

X1 fan: (quietly enjoying game). Sales? What? Who cares? (Back to playing game)

[jmac53]

I get disagreed everytime I say it but Square Enix is the next publisher to go under based on their practices and how long it takes them to develop a game.

[darthv72]

The game is good from what I've read. So there must be something other than exclusivity that is keeping people from finding the means to play it. Spite maybe?

Even with the assumption that there are 360 owners who upgraded to the PS4, they would likely still have their 360 to play this game. As with any game really, all they want is to be played.

It seems there are people purposely withholding themselves from playing this game and that is a shame as it looks to be one of the best of 2015. Even for the 360.

And I must be in the minority as I got my TR experience on Sega systems. From the original on Saturn to the releases on Dreamcast.

[Dee_91]

Regardless of sales, they literally alienated their two biggest fanbases for money. On that alone it was a mistake.
I'm sure Crystal Dynamics got every dime they were gonna get out of the game regardless of sales so that's the positive at least.

[Captain_TomAN94]

@Darkkent

The fact is that Tomb Raider has always sold a lot better on Playstation (And it will this time as well).

Then it went head to head with Fallout.

If it was released a month sooner, on all 3 platforms: It would have easily sold 3-4 times as many copies by now. It would have been the perfect game to play for a little before Fallout, and launching BEFORE Uncharted would have been great.

[rainslacker]

@BBub

With one million in sales, MS isn't sitting there counting the money. Even with a low end projection of 80 million production costs + marketing(and MS didn't spend a ton marketing this game if you really look at what they did for marketing), with what publishers sell these games for to distribution, they've only come up with about half of what was spent on the game production.

Depending on the deal itself, SE may actually come out ahead, and allowed MS to take the marketing and publishing hit, while they recoup their own investment in the game through sales on PC and PS4, but as it stands, with the way the money is being logically divided for any kind of deal made, MS has lost money on this deal. They may make it back over the long term if it continues to sell, but it's peak market time is quickly coming to an end.

If anyone disagrees, I encourage them to post possible ways this deal was handled instead of just hitting disagree. Explain how the revenues taken in so far can account for what a game of this caliber would cost to produce. It just doesn't add up, and MS isn't getting it all.

[xer0]

With Microsoft - You always have to wonder, whether that's shipped or sold through.

[ninsigma]

That is true but in fairness they did say sold through this time.

[jwillj2k4]

@ninsigma

Yea but do we believe them?

All companies are guilty of shady practices. However, and correct me if I am wrong, only MS has been known to lie about sales over and over again. Hell they were boasting how great of success they had on Xbox this Christmas by combining ALL of the sales across ALL consoles. Who DOES that.... Not to mention its always been 'sold through' for most companies, except the ones who are failing, in which they combine everything at their disposal (shipped/sold-through, combined console sales (lol), PC game sales, Accessory sales (Halo)) see where I am going with this?

[Khaotic]

Greenburg said sold through, but people say hes unreliable. I dont personally know myself or even give 2 f##ks how another companies product sells. Tomb Raider will live on and games will come and go. I like games discussions just not the kind that sound like your in a hair salon listening to a bunch of old woman gossiping.
This article and comment board is kinda pathetic if you look at it rationally. All the hate mongering and bashing of a company. I would be embarrassed of myself if I looked back and this was me acting like an entitled child.

[ninsigma]

@Jwill

I get what you mean I don't exactly trust them either. Just pointing out that they said it was sold through. If people believe them or not is up to them. I don't particularly care enough to form an opinion on which statement ms says is a lie lol
They are definitely the Console company I trust the least though, no doubt there.

[rainslacker]

With a game shipped is all that's important to the publisher. At that point, the game is sold, and they see no more revenue unless it's through MT or DLC, in which case, shipped actually is important since those two things are simply a numbers game of having users to buy the content.

However, if the game is actually selling, it means more will likely ship, as restocks will be requested.

In this case, I'd be willing to take Greenburg at his word. Not because I feel he's the most trustworthy PR rep, but because it's not like it matters with this number sold either way. It's still a pretty low number for a well known IP that had a well received prior installment(the 1st reboot), and the amount of hype prior to release that seems to suggest it would be game changing for MS in some way.

While 1 million is a decent enough number overall for many games, it's not where it needs to be for long term profit on a major production. I've run the numbers through my head, and I can't find any possible scenario of MS investment in the deal where they would have made their money back based on the revenue.

I often said that SE probably took a bath on this whole thing, but realistically, I'm starting to think that they may have made a very smart thing financially, because MS likely took the brunt of the expense, and SE now mostly just has to coast on the PS4 and PC sales in the future. even if it sells less than the prior installment, SE stands to make a lot more money....not that I applaud that as it still sucks for the player.

[t-hall785]

Nope. Still coming to ps4 and pc. Most people arent n4g fanboys and will buy the game when it releases because it will appeal to them. The game will do fine like it already is.

Lol everytime the x1 gets an exclusive its a mistake smh.

[ritchi45]

I personally enjoyed the reboot, so will be picking RotTR up for PS4 (price dependant) at/around launch.

[PSN_ZeroOnyx]

If it was multiplatform from the beginning I would have bought it for sure. Alas, it wasn't a multiplatform game so IF I do buy it on PS4, it will be from the bargain ben or not at all.

[ChuckTheIceMan]

Great game, and may not be a console seller on its own, but when you factor in Forza 6, Halo 5, and ARK it is now a HUGE system seller. On top of that black ops3 is just much much better with an elite controller!

[PSN_ZeroOnyx]

@chucktheiceman

And all that combined doesn't make X1 appealling enough to actually buy the console.

[t-hall785]

Once again...of the 36 million ps4 owners about 4000 probably spend half their day trolling n4g....the rest buy games they like

[jb227]

What kind of marketing will the game have? Assuming they release the same game they did for the XBO you can pretty much guarantee there will be no E3 showing, and is Square willing to throw big marketing dollars at a game that is potentially underperforming anyway?

The only way RotTR puts up decent numbers on PS4 (don't expect much beyond a drop in the bucket for PC sales) is if they add a significant new campaign section for the PS4 release along w/ all of the other dlc & they get Sony to showcase it at E3 and maybe help w/ marketing. Otherwise it is far from a foregone conclusion that the game "will do fine" or even that "it already is"

This has nothing to do w/ some evil Anti-MS conspiracy in the media, and this game isn't an x1 exclusive...this is a case where millions of hardcore TR fans on one platform has been boxed out of one of their favorite games that has had 2 decades of history as a multiplat release, so yeah, there is going to be an issue in this instance, and rightfully so...I guarantee that there would be plenty of MS gamers that would rake Bioware over the coals if they announced the next Mass Effect game as a PS4 1 year exclusive.

[rainslacker]

@jb

MS marketing of ROTTR wasn't exactly that amazing. One compilation commercial they ran for almost a year, then a limited run solo ad, all while MS touted their FO4 content deal for the holiday.

I can't imagine SE can do any worse.

biggest difference between the marketing of ROTTR and the 1st reboot was that the developer seemed much less engaged in the community. The first game, the dev was talking about it all the time. Always showing stuff at every chance they got. Taking any chance to get people hyped up for it, and in the end, they delivered a good game, which is actually rare when devs hype up their games to no end.

I can't imagine going forward the devs will engage in the community as much for subsequent releases, and I would even discourage it, because at this point, they're going to get a lot of hate just because of this deal.

SE will probably run the obligatory PC and PS4 launch trailer for YouTube, and maybe put out some ads on the websites, but I don't see any TV marketing, unlike the first reboot which had tons of it.

ROTTR will sell on other platforms, because there are people who will buy it, and many of them may be clueless as to this whole deal when it does become available. But this game specifically has not received the marketing blitz that the first game did, and it didn't have the hype lead up of over a year like the first one did either, so it seems the only people who really care about this game now are the ones who really enjoyed the first one, and it's not going to bring in more sales just from them alone. Even if this deal never existed, it wouldn't have sold as much, because the marketing for it has been pretty bad IMO.

[jb227]

@Rainslacker

I definitely agree the marketing was pretty thin on the ground on MS' part for their marketing. I could see Square running a much more effective campaign. Either way I don't think this is the kind of game that casual players would pick up w/o some kind of fandom or experience w/ the series so some quality marketing would do a lot towards getting the game seen and generating interest. That's the main reason why I'd think that Square & CD would want to create some meaty new campaign sections for the PS4 release so that they can showcase the game at E3, potentially winning back the fans that are more aware of the situations behind the game and having it enter the mindshare of the casual market that may drive further sales.

As a huge fan of the franchise I've been on the fence about picking it up retail at launch or buying used so as to not support these timed practices, but I'm at the point now that I will pick it up if they go that route & give their PS4 fans some big new content (hopefully an entirely new environment altogether like the Syria section was removed from the main Siberia landscape), along w/ all of the dlc released for PC & XBO. Really interested to see how Square & CD plan on pushing the game for its second wind, its a fairly unique situation considering all of the press the deal has received. They've got an opportunity to grab back some good will from their fanbase if they seize it properly.

[t-hall785]

Yeah y'all gettin it. Best looking game out right now. We all know how you ponies love GWAPHIX

[Relientk77]

And the release date on the same day as Fallout 4 and a few days off Call of Duty. Big mistakes.

[user9950279]

Yeah it was a mitake. Some fat cat at SE was sleepwalking with his fancy pen and accidentally signed a multimillion dollar publishing deal. FLOOPS!

[miyamoto]

Anyone who believes what Greenberg says is so misinformed.

[PhoenixUp]

Do you even have to ask? The game didn't even chart in the Nov NPD. The timed exclusivity deal didn't dramatically help Xbox One sales or hinder PlayStation 4 sales this holiday season. It was a very pointless venture in the grand scheme of things, especially with a PC port releasing 2.5 months afterwards.

In all honesty all this deal ever did was raise Microsoft's new AAA exclusive lineup in 2015 from 2 to 3 titles.

[Letthewookiewin]

It was a huge blunder. Hopefully they will make up enough sales when the PS4 version drops to warrant a third game from the franchise. But it's going to be so crowded with PS4 exclusives and new third patty stuff it's going to be really hard to stand out.

[jmac53]

Exactly, when given the choice between Horizons, Andromeda and a huge lineup or a good year old game, what do you think most people will go with. Most people will probably pick it up in January 2017 at a reduced price or second hand.

[UltraNova]

Look one million sold in 6 weeks is not that bad, its actually ok, broadly speaking.

But considering that a franchise of this caliber (worldwide recognition, multimillion seller, movies etc), on two platforms, with all that promotion, with great reviews from both the press and users, during the years biggest holiday season and after deep discounts managed only 1 million sales then my logic says it wasn't the biggest success, to put it lightly.

[Damien1801]

One million sold units is a great news if we're talking about a middle market game, new sleeper hit IP or an indie title. But when it comes to the the AAA game, especially the one that has a huge fanbase behind it that spawned sequels, spin-offs, movies and comics, one million sales is a huge disaster, especially when it was sold within a two-month period. RE6 sold about 5 million copies in a first month at it sounds great in first glance, but considering that Capcom expected to sell 7 million copies in a month it was considered a failure. Standard AAA games need to sell at least 2-3 million units in a first month to actually turn a profit. Even MGS5 has to sell 6 million units in total sales to break even. So one million units sold within two months especially for a AAA game that was available on Xbox One and 360 (especially when the latter has a huge install base) is not a remarkable achievement. They're better of wipe their ass with the pocket money they earned.

[GrmpyolGamer]

MS seem happy with the sales of the game thus far and I'm sure SE were happy to receive MS cheques. Everyone needs to move on from this. Everyone will get to play the game eventually and if u are desperate to play the game now put aside your petty fanboy opinions and get it on xbox

[Tsunade]

"MS seems happy"

Do you truly believe they will tell you otherwise? You are so naive.

[GrmpyolGamer]

I'm just stating what Phil Spencer and Arron Greenberg have said. Nothing more, Nothing less. I will take them at face value until proven otherwise.

[GrmpyolGamer]

I wonder if everyone had this amount of contempt for Sony when they brought exclusivity rights for Tomb Raider in the 1990's and keeping I of Nintendo and SEGA consoles. And I don't seem to c any contempt towards Sony for keeping Street Fighter 5 off xbox

[thekhurg]

Different scenario. There were millions upon millions more PlayStation consoles in homes than the competition and tomb raider was a new IP back them.

[GrmpyolGamer]

U make it sound like I was some underhanded, secret squirrel stuff. MS made an offer and SE accepted. Been done a million times over the years in the gaming industry. But MS is a big evil corporation so they must have blackmailed and torchered SE into taking their money right?

[Letthewookiewin]

That's the thing though, this was a deliberate attempt by MS to keep a well known Sony franchise off of PS4 to gain ground and they failed miserably. Don't expect to see another deal like this on X1 again.

[NovaCorps]

well 2 deals i think the ykinda did the same with insomniac one of the most ps friendly studios

both sunset overdrive and tomb raider fail miserably
i hope studios got their lessons and wont ever make a deal like this anymore

[DLConspiracy]

Aren't all exclusives done deliberately for that reason though?

Whether timed or outright exclusive. It's not just Tomb Raider. It's exclusives period. That includes SF5 and any game ever made exclusively. If Sony bought CapCom that may be a bit different but they didnt. They paid for the game to be made and advertised to keep it specifically off Xbox entirely. Not for 2 months not for 6. Not even 1 year. Permanently.

[Lon3wolf]

It's not a Sony franchise though it appeared on both PC and the Saturn.

[Letthewookiewin]

Ya DLC you make a good point. But you could also note (and this is my assumption) that SF is a series that has always sold better on PS and is out of Japan makeing the deal with Sony more plausible. Either way I think exclusive's involving 3rd parties are crappy and a cheap businesses trick to drive sales for one side. That said I stick by my statement that the exclusive deal with MS concerning Tomb Raider was bad for everyone (except the people who own it now), MS and CrystalD included. They complained about 5 million in sales with the last game and I'm not entirely sure with a jam packed 2016 it's going to be able to hit that even when it releases on PS4. It's not a fact of console superiority or this and that nonsense, its timing. I hope I'm wrong and sales pick up later this year because I want to see this franchise become a trilogy.

[DLConspiracy]

@wookie

I agree I'm not a fan of exclusivity on franchises. I think it's crap. My issue is with those who might forgive one over another. It's inevitably going to happen with these companies because they use it as bait for consumer. To try and make their console more appealing. This won't be the only franchise we see timed or permanent sequel exclusivity on. Not for either of the top consoles. Mark my words. I just hope the same individuals who don't like it are quick to point the finger regardless which console it's on.

[GrmpyolGamer]

NovaCorps

SSoD was exclusive because MS was willing to let Insomniac games keep the rights to the IP. They went to Sony and Sony demanded that insomniac sell them the IP first.

[NovaCorps]

and sold more than 6mil
compare to a pathetic 1mil on both 360 xone combine

[IamTylerDurden1]

What? The 1990s? Is that really relevant anymore?

The SFV deal is completely different if you compare the 2. From the beginning RotTR was scheduled to be multiplatform and release at the same time. Sony even showed RotTR at there e3 2014 press conference. It's clear that ms made a last second backroom deal to snatch the exclusivity right before Gamescom 2014. Even Sony was shocked by the deal.

The reason SFV is console exclusive to PS4 is bc Sony helped to fund the games development, it was never shown at a ms e3, nor was it ever scheduled to release on an xbox platform. It's entirely different, RotTR was coming out regardless of whether ms forked over the $ or not.

Sony gave Capcom $ so the game could come out, ms gave SE $ so the game wouldn't come out (on PS4).

[FlipSwitch]

I agree with everything you are saying but RotTR was announced at Microsofts E3 2014. It was multiplatform though as you could pre order it on PS4 at that time.

[Loktai]

Sony didn't buy tomb raider exclusivity.

And a Japanese fighting game on the Sony console does make sense. . . Microsoft already not only bought but resurrected a dead fighting game just to have one on their machine so don't compare sf5 to tomb raider, compare it with killer instinct.

[NovaCorps]

so much for resurrecting KI...anothr failure that nobody gives a crap anymore...another failure for the xbox library

[DLConspiracy]

@Nova

Season 3 Killer Instinct says Hello.

Wouldn't hurt if you cheered up a bit. Gaming isn't solely based on children's console war antics. It's about gaming and that includes gaming everywhere. Kind of sad these days that people decide to not like entire libraries of games based solely on the fact of which console it's on. Doesn't seem like the attitude of a real gamer to me.

[rainslacker]

Yes, there were a lot of people pissed off about it back then.

As to the people here specifically, that would depend on if they gamed back then. That's almost 25 years ago, and even I was pretty young back then(15), and barely remember it. If i wasn't running a BBS for gaming back then, I probably never would have known about it, because in 1990, the WWW wasn't filled with everyone, and in fact was barely even a thing, so it was just techie people, who weren't always the biggest Sony fans.

Me personally. I have great contempt for timed exclusivity deals of this nature, regardless of the console. I don't mind when a console maker funds a project which otherwise wouldn't have been made, or even if they get timed DLC or whatever, but the actual restriction of the entire game for a period of time is rather distasteful, and while I understand it's marketing benefits as well as it's benefits to the publisher in some cases, I still would rather see that money go towards making actual content which is truly exclusive.

[miyamoto]

Core themselves said that TR2 just can't be done on par with the Sega Saturn's hardware limitations. And it clearly shows here.

"While the original Tomb Raider was released on both the PlayStation and Sega Saturn game consoles, Tomb Raider II was no longer designed for the Sega Saturn despite having been confirmed as a target platform for the game in the first place. Following the cancellation announcement, Adrian Smith cited technical limitations of the console to program an adequate conversion."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

[starrman1985]

This whole deal they had just didn't really play out, they announced it was a timed exclusive (I know, people all assumed anyway, but..) before the game even came out, so instantly if there were people on the edge with PS4s getting close to picking up an Xbox One for this game that news would just put them firmly back with their PS4s.

Then 2 months later they announce the PC version coming in January.. it wont be long until it is out on the PS4 now for sure.

As much as I don't like this practice, they should have at least got 1 year or so exclusivity! All this deal ultimately achieved was hate towards Microsoft, hate towards Crystal Dynamics and more fuel was added to the seemingly endless console war we are in at the moment!

[Kiwi66]

But didn't they say the pc version was early 2016 so its not like they just decided to release it then without having a rough date in mind

[starrman1985]

Wasn't that announced shortly before launch too? I'm sure initially it was just Xbox One exclusive with no real mention of it going multi-plat?

[VsAssassin]

Oh well 1 million units sold is still an achievement. However, I don't get why they opted for an MS timed exlusivity, for the love of me.

Fast forward into, say, winter 2016, I hope RotTR releases on the PS4 when the console isn't bombarded with great exclusives; otherwise, this game will be obscured pretty badly.

[hiawa23]

Come on, for the love of you, MS paid for it, that is how it works, which was a good move for MS to keep it off Sony's platform in the near future. Do you not see that?

[rainslacker]

When the deal was made, the consoles probably were just released, and that's when Sony announced UC4. At that point, since MS wanted something to compete with UC4, by Spencer's own admission, they likely approached SE(or SE approached them for funding help) and they got the exclusivity deal long before the future sales of the console would be known. The first couple months, I doubt anyone would have guessed there would be such a huge disparity between the sales of the two systems, as they were both selling well, although Sony was quickly pulling ahead...but that wasn't enough to judge a two year trend by.

I think if SE knew that PS4 would be sitting around 35 million and the X1 at 18 million around the time of ROTTR release, they wouldn't have made the deal unless MS offered up a substantial sum of money for development AND marketing. Since it would appear MS paid for mostly just marketing...which in itself was rather pitiful...then SE would have been more inclined to either go it alone, or possibly approach Sony, who probably wouldn't have bothered since they had UC for the same time period.

[VsAssassin]

Agreed. On amother note, CD might create a big expansion/dlc for RotTR to make up for the long wait for the PS4 version. I think this is the way to go.

[xasz]

I'm just wondering....

Did anyone complain when this happened?

"While the original Tomb Raider was released on both the PlayStation and Sega Saturn game consoles, Tomb Raider II was no longer designed for the Sega Saturn despite having been confirmed as a target platform for the game in the first place. Following the cancellation announcement, Adrian Smith cited technical limitations of the console to program an adequate conversion. In September 1997, Sony Computer Entertainment signed a deal with Eidos to make console releases for the Tomb Raider franchise exclusive to the PlayStation, preventing the Sega Saturn or the Nintendo 64 from having any Tomb Raider game released for it until 2000, a deal that would prove very beneficial to Sony both in terms of revenue and also in further cementing the PlayStation's growing reputation as the go-to system for must-have exclusive titles."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

[Phoenix76]

I seem to remember an article in a gaming Mag back then about this. Yes people were upset that it wasn't being ported over. However, as stated above the Sega Saturn simply wasn't up to the task and Sega were taking a hell of a beating back then with bad business decisions (I.e. announce a brand new console at E3 and tell the people they can buy it that same day).
Nintendo's biggest issue was sticking to cartridges which as most people know we're severally limited in terms on memory capacity and could not accommodate the game without being on several cartridges.

[GrmpyolGamer]

Funny how these things get swept under the rug

[PizzaSteve]

Most people on here was kids or wasn't born at that time. There wasn't gaming sites and social media to know that even happen. Sony made the deal because TR sold millions more on PS than Saturn. If TR was exclusive to Saturn then it wouldn't be as popular like it is now. So bringing up something that happened 20 years ago don't change anything about the MS deal cause the intentions are different.

[rainslacker]

Yeah, people were complaining. But the WWW was barely a thing back then, and everyone and their mother did not have access to it. AOL and Compuserve were still the biggest ways to socialize online, and the rest was through BBS or newsgroup forums, so it was mostly techie people.

I imagine you weren't around back then, because if you were, you would know that while Sony started off strong, they were not as beloved as they are today. They had a ton of detractors in the online space who were pissed at them for damaging console sales not just for Sega, but also Nintendo.

PS became popular to new people, and while they did get a nice portion of the hardcore gaming crowd, they did this because they were offering something the other companies either weren't, or couldn't.

But make no mistake, when EGM reported about the exclusivity deal, the forums, the BBS, AOL, Compuserve, EGM's letter's section, and even what few WWW forums there were, had pissed off people in them.

I highly suggest if you, or even Fatty, want to try and call out hypocrisy because of something that happened almost 20 years ago, you know what happened back then, and how those who were privy to the info reacted, as well as stop trying to equate a Sony fan of today, as a Sony fan of 20 years ago.

What happened with that deal caused about the same amount of hate, and for the same reasons as it's getting today. The only difference today is that it's much more apparent, because of the easier access to the internet.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Yes and maybe.

It was a huge mistake for SE seing as how this deal basically destroyed the game's chances of even coming close to sales expectations. It might've even significantly hampered the game's future installments (sequels) as well. I just can't see SE dumping the same kind of $ into a game that continually undersells. The previous game sold much better yet it still undersold.

For ms it was a miserable failure if you look purely at sales figures, but sales figures don't tell the entire story. The amount of hype it created when the deal was announced was immense. Add to that the confusion and deception of making ppl think it was a legitimate xbone exclusive and it really created a lot of positive buzz. The news created a positive wave for xbone, a wave that absolutely boosted the perception and sales. It helped keep the fledgling console relevant in a desperate time of need. Just look at that conference when it was announced, it dominated the headlines and instantly gave ms a much needed win. I think with how much they manipulated the situation and how muched they milked the announcement it may well have been worth it.

[Imalwaysright]

"It was a huge mistake for SE seing as how this deal basically destroyed the game's chances of even coming close to sales expectations."

You need to get out of the N4g bubble. PC and PS4 gamers that really want to play this game will pick it up when it releases on those platforms and in the meanwhile it will keep selling on the X1 and Xbox 360. Claiming that Rise of TR won't meet sales expectations without knowing what those expectations are and before the game launches on PC (that has TR biggest fanbase) and the PS4 is a mistake.

" The previous game sold much better yet it still undersold. " No it didn't SE themselves said that it surpassed their expectations.

[IamTylerDurden1]

You really think RotTR will hit sales expectations? Consider that it barely sold on xbone/360 during the holiday season and consider that Uncharted 4 will already be out by then. Also, a flood of huge AAAs will be releasing in 2016 on PS4. I just don't see it selling that well and i just don't see ppl caring as much a yr later. With Horizon, No Man's Sky, Uncharted 4, SFV, TLG, Deus Ex, The Division, NBA2K17, GT Sport, PSVR, Dreams, Ratchet, Gravity Rush 2, WiLD, Cod, AC, Madden, Tekken 7, Mass Effect, FFXV, Dead island 2, DOOM, and Bkattlebkkorn will ppl have to for RotTR?

[Imalwaysright]

I didn't say that because I don't know SE sales expectations for Rise of TR. Do you? Care to share?

TR fans that game on the PS4 will care. I constantly hear around here that TR has its biggest fanbase on Sony's consoles so it should do well on the PS4 and it will definetely do well on the PC considering that the 2013 reboot sold 3 million copies on that platform.

[IamTylerDurden1]

1st off SE thought 2013 Tomb Raider could sell 15m units, the re-released it on next gen sold it on at least 5 different platforms and it sold less than 1/2 that. They expected 6m units sold in the 1st month, it sold 3m. The game failed to hit sales expectations period.

Judging by the lofty 2013 sales expectations i can assume they expected the sequel to sell similarly well. Or at the very least as well or better than the prior game. It will almost surely not sell as well as the previous installment based on the abysmal xbone/360 numbers and the fact it's launching an entire yr later on PS4. Also take into account that it surely will not get a 2nd release like the 2013 game got with the definitive edition.

I care bc it's a dirty business practice and i don't want to see good devs getting screwed by their publishers. Nor do i want to see good games getting screwed out of sales, nor ppl getting screwed out of playing it. It's like if all of a sudden Sony made a backroom deal to keep Deus Ex off of other platforms for a yr, or the Division. You think ppl would be pissed? yep. But it's even worse t o keep it off PS4 bc the install base is twice the size (as xbone) so ur screwing even more ppl and hurting sales even more.

[Imalwaysright]

"1st off SE thought 2013 Tomb Raider could sell 15m units" Care to provide a link?

"The game failed to hit sales expectations"

http://www.gamepur.com/news...

As you can see that was at 6 million copies sold. The game has sold 8.5 million copies total. The game exceeded sales and profit expectations and is the best selling TR game.

Also, I agree this deal should have never been made but I'm too much of a TR fan to not buy it at the end of this month.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Of course at the end of the day SE is going to make the game appear as a success. I read their "statement" as well, and i knew that was the entire factual base for your argument. It's bs though. In reality, SE panicked when the game sold 1/2 what it was supposed to. You do realize the "game" ur referring to is actually 2 different games, 2 completely different releases. The truth is time, $, and manpower went into making the Definitive Edition. TR Definitive was its own release with its own sales expectations. Considering SE expected the 2013 TR to sell 6m units in the 1st month alone you really think 8m in lifetime sales (with a whole other release) hit their expectations?

The truth is 2013 TR sold approximately 4m (physical) in roughly 3 years of lifetime sales. Yet, SE expected it to sell 6m in the 1st month. It didn't even hit its 1st month target after 3 years.

[Imalwaysright]

Or maybe they revised their sales expectations according to reality and TR exceeded those expectations. A game selling 8.5 million copies is great considering that 95% of games don't even sell 1 million copies. Also no, PS4 and X1 versions aren't completely different releases. It's the X1 and PS4 versions of the same game and used the assets of the PC version aside from the character model.

[IamTylerDurden1]

They're different releases and if anything it should've raised sales expectations even more, making it that much more unrealistic that they actually hit it.

They failed to hit initial expectations and probably revised their expectations. So in a way we're both right.

[NovaCorps]

ofc it was and now they are paying for it
microsoft thought this could compete with uncharted...plz enough laugh

[Free_Fro]

Apparently not. Just 'cause it wasn't a mistake doesn't mean it's right. They sold over a millie.. and it doesn't stop there, it's going to sell some more over time. And, the PC one is coming this month..

It's just business .. all parties are guilty of it.

[ScorpiusX]

Neither side is complaining and they know the true details of the contract and if their not complain guess all is good . Everything from this article to all others is just random BS without any real details .

[kotaku77]

yeah big mistake. But they can't do nothing about it now.

[Tsunade]

Yes it was a mistake.
Does the game sold more than previous entries in the franchise? Nope.
Does the game helped xbox One sell better than PS4? Nope.
Does the exclusivity helped popularize the franchise? Nope.

[BlackPhillip666]

I'm playing the game and enjoying it haven't beat it yet, still competing for time with Halo 5 Forza 6 and Battlefront on my PS4 and Yoshi's woolly world lol. :D but being a player that enjoys playing on all platforms and has a head on his shoulders you got to question the business ethics off the company involved. There's a ready market on each platform and money to be made these exclusivity packages most be worth a mint :/.

[ChuckTheIceMan]

Absolutely NOT a mistake! The only people who believe it was a mistake are people who don't own an xbox. Just a fantastic game and great move by M$.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Do u realize how many ppl don't own an xbox nowadays? A lot. So a lot of ppl feel like it was a mistake. Do u feel it somehow wasn't a mistake for Squenix? It clearly was, to keep cripple your own game for a little fast cash :(

[ChuckTheIceMan]

A lot more people own an Xbox One than owned a 360 or a ps3 in the same timeframe for last gen. So ya you're wrong.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Alot more? We don't actually know until ms reveals REAL numbers ;)

[hiawa23]

Was it a mistake, no. Not from MS's standpoint, they got the game out on their platform a year ahead of it coming to the PS4, PC version coming out this month, so no, it is a great game, sold about 1million, so as far as I am concerned, no it was not a mistake. I find it hilarious some are again questioning this because it is timed exclusive to the Xbox, and just another attempt to bash MS and their platform. If fortunes were reversed, no one would be saying it was a mistake if the game was exclusive to Sony's platform.

[Herbalistic]

It was a mistake for SE to do a timed deal that leaves out millions of PS4 users at launch. I really doubt they are going to be able to sell TR for 60 bucks once its hits PS4 being as the game will be old and cheaper on the other platforms..

[jc12]

of course it was...

[Enigma_2099]

Depends... you gonna b**** about it not making as much money as you hoped?

[Morgue]

Maybe it's posted in another article somewhere or maybe someone has asked this question. How much of these sales were at the full price of the game versus when it got a discounted price? I'm guessing that if the majority were discounted than you could say it was a failure but the exclusive route and release date kinda screwed them.

[rainslacker]

If you go by reported numbers...which I don't think the first were official...then roughly 1/3rd of the sales were after the price drop in December.

However, I don't know how much of that 1 million number is including copies from the bundle. Somehow, I think it probably is included, and the 1 million would likely include the digital sales if it came from an official source. Can't recall if it was qualified as only retail sales or not. I also don't know if that price drop was an official one(publisher rebates and reduction of distributor pricing) or just one offered by retailers because they wanted to move stock. If the latter, then MS sold the game at full price for all of that 1 million, barring possible bundle copies.

I personally can't see how this game has profited MS at all, unless they didn't write a very big check to begin with. I know their marketing of it was pitiful, although they probably assigned a higher number to that cost than it actually got. I can see how it would profit SE over the long run if they got a couple specific kind of timed deals which are rare because they are usually very unbeneficial to the console maker.

[quenomamen]

If their goal was to sell 1million then it's a success. Don't know of any AAA game company who sets a goal that low though.

[cimerians]

It's always a mistake when you wall off over half the population of gamers from playing (buying) your game.

Microsoft paid some cash, Square made some money up front and all those fans (who only own a PC or PC\PS4) stood looking through a window.

Most walked away to another sale and bought something else.

Whats worse: Most people aren't interested anymore.

[Realms]

LOL. All parties involved are happy with the ROTR success they sold a million on a combine user base of 100 million but it's not PR because they are happy with those sales numbers. They were so pleased they slashed the price down less than a month after they released the game. They were so happy with their sales numbers it's now coming to PC this month when they made such a huge deal about MS exclusivity yup they are very happy with those numbers. Even the former executive that stepped down or was asked to resign is happy about their sales numbers that was just a coincidence not PR.

[peshkavusCA]

It's always a mistake when playstation doesn't get it...

[WelkinCole]

Yes

1. Sales are bad compare to the reboot which they said it was bad

2. They didn't get the rivalry with U4 as they expected.

3. It didn't really help MS sell x1.

[NeoGamer232]

1. You are comparing software sales on a console base of 25 million with a console at the time that had a 75 million console base.

2. I don't think this deal had anything to do with UC4. MS seems to have aligned Remedy's Quantum Break with UC4. And I think this deal was mutually beneficially. Timed exclusivity, and Square was aable to avoid the UC4 window with the PS4.

3. There are no facts to support this either way. But, MS did have a TR bundle and it did sell units so one could argue there was some benefit.

[rainslacker]

There was also the conflict of interest in MS getting the FO4 marketing deal which released on the same day. All their efforts for that day seemed to go towards that and ROTTR was more of an afterthought for cheap late night TV, and the rest of the marketing I saw was from SE own store's mailing list and website, and the obligatory Youtube video. It's almost shameful how MS handled the marketing for this game, and despite how well MS has been doing, I can't agree with them having a marketing deal for two big games for the same day...particularly since all they got from FO4 was timed DLC and some exclusive content.

[kenwonobi]

If we are asking this question then no doubt it most likely is true. Nobody ever asks questions like these unless part or all of it is true.

[NeoGamer232]

The only mistake is the fanboy idiots who keep writing these articles.

[MCTJim]

This guy gets it :D

[DivineAssault]

One of if not the biggest mistake made by a publisher.. Tomb Raider is a PS icon..

[Pongwater]

For Square, short term, yes. Long term, we'll see but it will definitely sell quite a few more copies.

For MS, yes, though they have plenty of money to throw around so it's not like it hurts them, or XB1 for that matter. It just didn't translate to closing the sales gap like they undoubtedly hoped it would.

[Azzanation]

Enjoying the hate TR still gets even to this day when the game has been a critical success on the review boards. What's more important when you buy a game, Sales or Reviews.

Ill choose Reviews every time. Have fun boycotting it if you like, it doesn't stop the fact its an amazing game. Iv played it, iv enjoyed it. Pity most Warriors on here haven't.

[FN4GM]

Nerd chicks.

[Tzuno]

Well i think both ms and square lost a lot of money especially ms with exclusivity deal, greed can fire back sometimes i think but maybe it's not to late, lets see how pc sales will go.

[mEATgrinder]

Some of you writing walls of text here to a pointless article

[EyeAmTJ]

we still talking about this? SMH